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View Full Version : Im trying to buy an intake system, What would be best?



Anonymous
01-25-2004, 12:34 PM
Okay, an AEM Short Ram Intake i can get for 188.00

The K&N Typhoon Intake for 210.00 retail!

Is their better ones for the same price range?

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 05:48 PM
damn no one on this forum can help me here, geez, you guys are wierd....

Novtec1
01-25-2004, 07:31 PM
i got the AEM.... its nice but its gonna take you a minute to install but the instructions are excellent.... and i got the s#!t cut outta me with the heatshield... all in all i love it... the sound of the turbo spooling and you can really hear the bov... i say the AEM

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 07:59 PM
aight sounds good, lol...i'll becareful not to hurt myself!

akara1
01-25-2004, 08:28 PM
I havent read anyones personal experience with the K&N yet. Not sure if anyone on this board even has it yet. But from looking under the hoods of a few Evos with the AEM, i noticed that the top part of the filter is getting smashed. Must be hitting the hood. I hope the K&N doesnt have the same problem :?

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 08:42 PM
well thats why i got a trick to that problem, its my secret... :lol: i will never have a problem like that, never

leaveit2bevo
01-25-2004, 09:27 PM
aps cai why suck in more hot air?

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 09:38 PM
what do you mean??

mprtklr
01-25-2004, 10:00 PM
KN made the FIRST one off my car, it was absolutely horrible, design looked like a APC hack job. i have it in my closet and i wont install it. i hear they designed a new one and it is better but i didnt do that one, so i dont know, i run the RMR, and it works fine for me.

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 10:03 PM
thats coo, im prolly goin with AEM, i was chekin out APS cool air intake, i dunno about that...i also was looking forward to stage kits...i might invest in a stage kit.

drwn kix
01-25-2004, 10:28 PM
I went with the new AEM but I can't use the barrier plate because I have the RMR Intercooler hard pipe kit. I don't really like the way the air cleaner is pinned between the battery, the hood and the water filler for the intercooler spray. It helped to trim the fiberboard on the hood. I'm not done yet. I sure like the big air cleaner.

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 10:35 PM
okay, i checked out Ingen Cold Air intake for the EVO 8, now, between Ingens Cold Air, and AEM Short ram intake, which one would add more hp, i know that the short ram is hoter air, but whats best to do??

GokuSSJ4
01-25-2004, 11:07 PM
some peeps have the APS , which looks great but is a bit price . Around 450.00 i believe , if you plan on getting the K & N typhoon contact Rob he has a group buy going . As far as short ram vrs cold air intakes , the advantage between the 2 is that cai allows more cold air to go throught do to the design then a short ram . But some peeps forget that went a car is traveling theres also plenty of air passing by the engine bay . I seen some dyno sheets and IMO the difference is minimum .....

Anonymous
01-25-2004, 11:13 PM
so...tough cuz i can get the cold air intake from ingen the same price for aem intake

GokuSSJ4
01-25-2004, 11:24 PM
then if thats your option , since the aps unit is very nice but not cheap . I believe some one also paid over 600 install :yikes: more expensive then cams (before the price increase )

leaveit2bevo
01-26-2004, 12:59 AM
lol goku and me have been battleing over the cold air short ram thing for ever, Bottom line is yes cold air is going into the engine bay but its still sitting next to a extremly hot motor and componets while my aps sits away from all that crap and gets cold air.

moogle
01-26-2004, 02:38 AM
K&N air filter would be bang for the buck.

GokuSSJ4
01-26-2004, 10:07 AM
lol goku and me have been battleing over the cold air short ram thing for ever, Bottom line is yes cold air is going into the engine bay but its still sitting next to a extremly hot motor and componets while my aps sits away from all that crap and gets cold air.

lol true , dont get me wrong is a great kit and im sure huge gains can happen from it . But damn the amount of money that you pay for is the only thing . I would love to compare your kit , with another evo with similar mods on the dyno to see what actiol gains are to be made from . An to see if its worth the extra amount that you paid for a cai. An then have both car tune by the same ecu management to see which response to better to tuning ......

mprtklr
01-26-2004, 11:44 AM
my take on the whole CAI thing..

for NA cars, YES CAI makes a big difference, for FI/IC car's none. the turbo is gonna heat up the air anyway, and the intercooler is going to cool it down anyway. having a CAI is not doing anything.

Novtec1
01-27-2004, 04:25 PM
some peeps have the APS , which looks great but is a bit price . Around 450.00 i believe , if you plan on getting the K & N typhoon contact Rob he has a group buy going . As far as short ram vrs cold air intakes , the advantage between the 2 is that cai allows more cold air to go throught do to the design then a short ram . But some peeps forget that went a car is traveling theres also plenty of air passing by the engine bay . I seen some dyno sheets and IMO the difference is minimum .....

DAMN :shock: 450 BUCKS..... you coulda bought 2 AEM's.... thats some $$$$!!!!!!

leaveit2bevo
01-27-2004, 04:36 PM
my take on the whole CAI thing..

for NA cars, YES CAI makes a big difference, for FI/IC car's none. the turbo is gonna heat up the air anyway, and the intercooler is going to cool it down anyway. having a CAI is not doing anything.

To bad thats not the case, a guy on evom set up temp things and his conclusion was that the turbo charger did not heat all the air up to the same temp.

Chris in SD
01-27-2004, 05:10 PM
I have the RMR intake, too. I've had it for about 15,000 miles now with no problems.

MrBubbler
01-27-2004, 06:50 PM
well RNR can custom make intakes but i dont know how much they will go for i have one on my car and i love it = )

GokuSSJ4
01-27-2004, 10:27 PM
Adam do you have a short ram or cai ?? by RnR ,also O/T how much did you paid for your FMIC from RnR ??

han74j
01-27-2004, 10:39 PM
K$N stock filter replacement. 7HP gain =0) and its cheap as hell!!!

MrBubbler
01-27-2004, 11:21 PM
the intake is CAI that they made for me and i dont have numbers for the IC because im a sponsored car = / call them up they are very nice and very helpful it is basicly a buschur set up same size and thickness exactly and they offer lower and upper IC piping!

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2004, 01:45 AM
thanks , if you would ask for a price what would ryan tell you :)

MrBubbler
01-28-2004, 02:21 AM
you mean ryan? hehe

mprtklr
01-28-2004, 07:02 AM
ryan was saying comparable prices as buschur when i was asking about it when he did my exhaust, however, when i asked him, he wasnt going to include a BOV like the buschur setup. but he may changed his mind since then.

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2004, 09:21 AM
you mean ryan? hehe

yeah Ryan , sorry if i got the name wrong lol i was close doh :lol:
I know Buschur is 750.00 which includes the lower Intercooler Piping.

Wind Racer
01-28-2004, 10:07 AM
Does anyone here have ARC SUPER INDUCTION BOX intake system?

leaveit2bevo
01-28-2004, 11:47 AM
that little box looks good but it sits way to close to the engine.

MrBubbler
01-28-2004, 12:40 PM
...

Secret Chimp
01-28-2004, 04:54 PM
For what it is worth, AEM has redesigned their short ram filter and pipe. The filter no longer comes in contact with the hood. As a result, the filter does not get crushed. If anyone wants to see the redesigned piece, I'll show you mine at the next meet.

SC~

AD_LIB
01-28-2004, 07:13 PM
are they offering a refund or replacement filter for those poor souls who were unfortunate enough to get the crapola one ?

Cr0mster
01-28-2004, 08:40 PM
For what it is worth, AEM has redesigned their short ram filter and pipe. The filter no longer comes in contact with the hood. As a result, the filter does not get crushed. If anyone wants to see the redesigned piece, I'll show you mine at the next meet.

SC~

This was what had me holding off on buying one. I am having a really hard time deciding between the K&N and the AEM. Guess I will keep researching.

AD_LIB
01-28-2004, 08:46 PM
that new injen unit looks nice CARB legal too

Anonymous
01-28-2004, 10:46 PM
does intake sound so expensive.....imma go with injens intake :) 6 days till it sshipped to my house

Cr0mster
01-28-2004, 11:53 PM
Are the AEM and K&N CARB legal?

GokuSSJ4
01-29-2004, 02:27 AM
i know the k & n typhoon is carb legal , dont know about the aem...

ErroR
01-29-2004, 07:00 AM
are they offering a refund or replacement filter for those poor souls who were unfortunate enough to get the crapola one ?

If you call the technical support line at AEM they will send you a new filter element. Mine should be here in the next few days.

leaveit2bevo
01-29-2004, 11:46 AM
heres what carb legal gets you NO POWER!!!!! anything thats legal must not be very good.

IS2000
01-29-2004, 05:58 PM
heres what carb legal gets you NO POWER!!!!! anything thats legal must not be very good.

But intakes with no carb stickers will give you $341 emission ticket!

han74j
01-29-2004, 07:12 PM
im with u IS2000, and btw how much was ur JDM tailights?

leaveit2bevo
01-29-2004, 08:27 PM
heres what carb legal gets you NO POWER!!!!! anything thats legal must not be very good.

But intakes with no carb stickers will give you $341 emission ticket!

Yes this is true but my aps cai is hidden under the new IC spray bottle.

han74j
01-29-2004, 08:47 PM
heres what carb legal gets you NO POWER!!!!! anything thats legal must not be very good.

But intakes with no carb stickers will give you $341 emission ticket!

Yes this is true but my aps cai is hidden under the new IC spray bottle.

just wanted to see what the 3rd quote look like =0P

han74j
01-29-2004, 10:02 PM
hey aps intake system have a water spry on it, so that should be pretty good. The K&N typoon intake system gets over 10 whp for 200 bucks thats also pretty good. if you want to go cheap get K$N flat panel intake filter (fits in ur stock filter box) gets 7 whp gain.

leaveit2bevo
01-29-2004, 10:29 PM
I dont believe that the k&n makes 10whp, ad_lib only made 15whp with a turboback intake and 22psi.

han74j
01-29-2004, 11:15 PM
wow really? hum..

Anonymous
01-29-2004, 11:39 PM
first of all K&N sucks, and AEM sucks too, aps is great but fuck the spray water holder, umm, then yeah, doesnt that suck? i hate expensive shit

MrBubbler
01-30-2004, 03:40 AM
then buy one malibu and stop bitching about it, buy the injen or whatever you wanted, and if you think 350+/-(+ new water tank) is alot for intake wait till you have to change rotors and brake pads, your second clutch etc etc , the evo is a expensive car and it is some what expensive to maintaine dont cheap out on the parts your putting on it, it could cost you more down the road

Anonymous
01-30-2004, 10:25 AM
i understand, i guess it all about how much money is in your bank, thats why i have this stupid problem! but if i was rich it be so much relaxing

Coolguy949
01-30-2004, 10:35 AM
first of all K&N sucks, and AEM sucks too, aps is great but fuck the spray water holder, umm, then yeah, doesnt that suck? i hate expensive shit

so i guess everything sucks then :roll:

Anonymous
01-30-2004, 10:36 AM
lol, i neeed money....:)...i think that k&n would not be the best, better to wait....for better intakes for the buck :)

GokuSSJ4
01-30-2004, 11:11 AM
I dont believe that the k&n makes 10whp, ad_lib only made 15whp with a turboback intake and 22psi.
after the car is tune , i want to see how much will a drop in k & N does , that way i can have an # to say it gave me this much . Does one of the things that APS has , you are not able to see that you have a cai . which is great IMO , also high quality stuff ...

leaveit2bevo
01-30-2004, 12:17 PM
first of all K&N sucks, and AEM sucks too, aps is great but fuck the spray water holder, umm, then yeah, doesnt that suck? i hate expensive shit

you do know that both the aem and the aps use k&n filters. and you dont need the spray bottle, I think the spray bottle was really expensive for its use but ohwell its a nice looking piece.

GokuSSJ4
01-30-2004, 12:46 PM
first of all K&N sucks, and AEM sucks too, aps is great but fuck the spray water holder, umm, then yeah, doesnt that suck? i hate expensive shit

also K & N makes one of the best filters . Have use them for years and have been very happy with the results . So i think before making a statement like that , you need to do some search on how a product performs and the quality behind it . Not just price range ..

Anonymous
01-30-2004, 03:22 PM
well no one recommends K&N, its best to spend more buck for more bang

STFU Tuning
02-03-2004, 09:20 PM
A cold air intake on a turbo charged car is one of the funniest concepts I have ever heard of. Here is why...

A car driving along at speed has warmer air in the engine bay, but warmer by how much? At speed you may be looking at 15 - 20 degrees. Now, the air travels down past the maf and into the turbo inlet, where it is spun through the turbo compressor and effectively SUPER HEATED! The small difference in the temperature of the incomming air is not even an issue.

Commonly, people will relate heat soak with the temperature of the incomming air from the intake filter. This could not be farther from the truth. You can not heat this air any more than what heat will be generated by the compressor.

This is not a NA car. Cooling is not accomplished through a ram air or cold air intake. Cooling is accomplished through the intercooler and through some type of auxilary cooling system such as Water Injection. The perfect intercooler would be efficient enough to flow at your system's capacity. It would also not provide a huge amount of pressure drop. It would also provide at least some pressure drop because lets face it, air must slow so it can cool.

In an ideal situation, a perfect intercooler would help bring the air intake charge down to ambient temp or close to it. If you really want to be slick and run below ambient temps, get Water Injection!

-Darwin

leaveit2bevo
02-03-2004, 11:28 PM
A guy placed heat probes before and after his turbo with short ram and cold air intakes. He found that the cold air intake did make a big difference in air temp coming out of the turbo. You cant believe peoples opionons you have to look at the evidence.

STFU Tuning
02-04-2004, 12:11 AM
Who exactly did the tests? It would be absurd to think it would make a "big difference". What exactly was the "big difference"? What were the conditions? Place your hand on the compressor after a short drive and you'll get it. You can not heat the air more than what the compressor will generate. It is simple. Simply placing probes in intakes and after the turbo will not show evidence. Conditions, run time before taking the reading, and so on.

Remember, ambient air is constantly being replaced when the car is at speed, keeping the temps under the hood from being too much warmer than the temps in the CAI positions. You are not really getting cold air either per se. You are just getting what is or what is around ambient.

Do not mistake opinion for thermodynamics.

leaveit2bevo
02-04-2004, 12:06 PM
I dont remeber who did the test but the big difference was the the air coming out of the turbo with a CAI was a lower temp then with the short ram. Denser air is better, not trying to haze you but do you have some sort of degree in therodynamics?

STFU Tuning
02-04-2004, 12:57 PM
I don't have a degree in thermodynamics, but I have been around these turbocharged cars for a long time. I would not trust such a test as the one you are talking about. Dense air makes power at the point of combustion. This means that you want the dense air in the intake manifold, and then down to the heads and combustion chamber. It is not reasonable to think that air that is 15 or so degrees cooler will put a dent in the temperature produced by the compressor of a turbo. Remember, it would be nearly impossible to get an accurate reading from such a test since the conditions and all the variables would be difficult to replicate exactly for both case. You also have to think about what that person may be gaining by posting such results. Are they selling something? Is there anything in it for them. Like I said, place your hand on the compressor housing one day after a nice drive and you'll see what I mean.

If you want to drop the temps drastically between the turbo and the IC, then get a larger, more efficient turbo. That will net you a huge difference. Again, this is not nearly as important as the temps in the intake manifold itself. Those temps are dictated by the IC and/or Water Injection.

I am not saying that colder air will not cause the compressor to run cooler, but there is a trick to this too. You will not only need to cool the air going in, but you would need to cool the housing from the outside as well. By this I mean routing some type of air funnel so that it blows onto the outside of the turbo. I have seen this done, and have actually been able to place my hand on the turbo afterwards without getting burned at all. But, there is a problem with doing this. The colder and more dense the air is comming from the turbo, the slower it moves. Let me introduce lag. This is just one reason why larger turbos have more lag.

Bottom line, I would not suggest placing your air filter in a box that gets heated super hot, but the differences in the short ram and the cai will not dent the Intake charge temps, which is what it really important. The High performance air intake should concentrate on getting a high volume of air to the motor as quickly as possible. Leave the cooling to the IC and/or WI. Thats what they are made for.

-Darwin

GokuSSJ4
02-04-2004, 01:11 PM
So that means that the WI kit that works has available for the Evo would work great ..

ItsStockOfficer
02-04-2004, 06:48 PM
Inlet air temps make plenty of difference on turbo car's. I mean, I might be way off base here, but I always assumed in the extensive back to back eperiance I have had between cold air and short air intakes, the consistent reduction in intake temps at the throttle body and the reduced knock levels seen, with the additional timing gained...had something to do with the colder air I got.....I suppose I was wrong...

I suppose my car is faster at night for no good reason as well =(....

Note that I don't sell anything, Im just another guy with a 4G63 who likes to run 11's as easily as possible, in my full weight daily driver...

leaveit2bevo
02-04-2004, 11:26 PM
Inlet air temps make plenty of difference on turbo car's. I mean, I might be way off base here, but I always assumed in the extensive back to back eperiance I have had between cold air and short air intakes, the consistent reduction in intake temps at the throttle body and the reduced knock levels seen, with the additional timing gained...had something to do with the colder air I got.....I suppose I was wrong...

I suppose my car is faster at night for no good reason as well =(....

Note that I don't sell anything, Im just another guy with a 4G63 who likes to run 11's as easily as possible, in my full weight daily driver...

exactly what I was thinking, if inlet temps dont matter why is the car faster at night? how about this go to the drag strip and look how many cars especially supras are running with no head light depending on what side the intake is on, plus I really dought that denser air would necesarily cause lag.

STFU Tuning
02-05-2004, 01:38 AM
Inlet air temps make plenty of difference on turbo car's. I mean, I might be way off base here, but I always assumed in the extensive back to back eperiance I have had between cold air and short air intakes, the consistent reduction in intake temps at the throttle body and the reduced knock levels seen, with the additional timing gained...had something to do with the colder air I got.....I suppose I was wrong...

I suppose my car is faster at night for no good reason as well =(....

Note that I don't sell anything, Im just another guy with a 4G63 who likes to run 11's as easily as possible, in my full weight daily driver...

exactly what I was thinking, if inlet temps dont matter why is the car faster at night? how about this go to the drag strip and look how many cars especially supras are running with no head light depending on what side the intake is on, plus I really dought that denser air would necesarily cause lag.

I think I am on the wrong message board. How much experience do you guys have? I really could care less at this point to help you guys out if you aren't paying attention, but let me address your questions, no matter how sarcasticly they were presented.

Your car is faster at night because your intercooler is being blasted by the colder night time ambient air. If the IC is getting hit by 40 degree air at speed, you will be looking at much lower temps at the throttle body than if it was 80 degrees out and your IC was getting blasted with warmer air. This is a matter of IC efficiency.

If you want to seem really smart, another good way is to learn what an intake air temp (IAT) really is. You are confusing the intake/air filter, with the actual intake manifold. There is a difference. The reason the cold air is helpful in the INTAKE MANIFOLD is that it is distributed directly from there into the combustion chamber. The cold air supresses knock, and the density itself will allow you more power. There is no dispute there. The dispute is in the delivery.

Non turbo cars need cai because air is passed directly from the filter and maf into the throttle body and the INTAKE MANIFOLD. There is no turbo compresser wheel to super heat the incomming air. Why do you think you have an intercooler? The answer is that you can not just toss cold air into the post compresser pipe by routing a filter out of the engine bay. READ: No matter what you do, the temps of the air leaving the compresser will be dictated by the temp of the compressor wheel and housing, not the air filter. There is a big semi complicated process between the air filter and the throttle body. By the time the air gets to the TB, it has been super heated then cooled back down by the IC. If we could make the air at the TB cold just by routing the filter to a cai position, we wouldn't need an IC. Turbo cars don't work like that.

The reason you see missing headlights at the track on a turbo car is that these guys are trying to get as high a volume of air into the filter as quickly as they can. What better way than to take out a headlight and allow more air to rush intgo the engine bay at an increasing rate of speed as the car accelerates.

As far as dense air causing lag, here ya go. Cold air mooves slower than hot air. This is a simple fact. Have you heard of ceramic or jet-hot coating? People thermal coat or wrap exhaust parts so that the gasses stay hotter in the exhaust and therefore evacuate quicker. Again, this is because hot air moves at a faster rate than cold air. Thermal wrap/coat also holds that heat in, not allowing the engine bay to bet so hot. Anyways, when the hot air is allowed to stay hot and evacuate faster, this creates more airflow and thus, more power.

Now, we all know that a bigger turbo means more lag, but why? Are they just punishing you for having more power by making you have more lag? No. A larger turbo not only takes longer to spin up, but it also passes cooler air downstream to the IC. This is a tremendous difference since the actual compressor itself does not get as hot. This makes the job of the IC a little easier, helping the IC with its goal to bring the INTAKE MANIFOLD temp charge as close to ambient as possible. However, this cooler air will move slower from the compressor than the hotter air from the smaller turbo. I'm not saying it is slow, but it is slower than the hotter air. This translates to some of the lag you see on larger turbos.

If you don't believe in all this hogwash, and you are trying to justify that expensive CAI you bought so you can sleep better at night, then just ignore me. If you are really into how turbo cars and intercooling work, then you should read up on thermodynamics. Pick up some Corky Bell litterature and do some reading. I wouldn't be shocked if you were thinking, "Who the heck is Corky Bell?". Don't just be the average argumentative DSM boy racer. Read.... Learn.... There is a connection.

For the guy who asked about water injection... Read up on the Aquamist site. WI is an old technology that has been around for many years and is proven. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer.

And sorry for my spelling errors, but I am too tired to go back and correct.

perversity
02-05-2004, 10:59 PM
Thanks for your informatif post STFU. It certainly cleared up a few points for me....

leaveit2bevo
02-05-2004, 11:07 PM
Hey you make some good points but your stating constants that you dont know for certain. For instants you dont know that the turbo is heating all the air up to the same temp. I could very well be wrong but I think we need to see tests and acctual evidence before we believe you amazing thermodynamic skillz or my denser is better position.

STFU Tuning
02-06-2004, 01:40 AM
perversity: No problem, any time.

leaveit2bevo: I am not actually making any points or showing off anything that requires "amazing thermodynamic skilz" that are not already known factors when dealing with turbo cars. This is old school stuff. Nothing new here. You are right that denser is better, but you need to understand where that density is created and where it creates the most benefits. This is not a theory of mine. These are facts.

Fact: Cars are made faster and knock less by denser air IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER. REPEAT; IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER.

Fact: The compressor of a turbo is VERY VERY HOT... No dense air will exit the compressor outlet. The compressor outlet will heat the air to whatever temps the compressor housing is at. Thats it.

If you are concerned with your motor getting the most dense and efficient air charge, then I applaud you. But you need to look to the proper tools that can actually acomplish this for you. Those tools are the intercooler, and if you are really slick, WI.

Again, this is not my opinion, nor is it some theory that I am passing off as my own innovation. This is just simple and readily available science of turbo cars and combustion motors.

-Darwin

ItsStockOfficer
02-06-2004, 11:32 AM
Well, lets see, experiance....over 200 track passes in the past 2 years, countless hours of dataloggging on 4g63's, I have owned FOUR 4G63 powered cars, I run 7's in the 1/8 mile on 91 octane and full weight. I have owned a 14b, 2 16g's, both big and small, a TDO6 20g, a 60-1 and a 50 trim, and used them all for extended periods on a 4G63. I have ran 11's on a my full weight daily driver without a hitch.

The reason turbo effciency is given as a percentage is because the heat coming out of the compressor is NOT static. It wouldn't say 78% in STFU's world...it would say at 2.2 P/R on 40 lb/min outlet temp will be 254 degrees. Why doesn't it say that? If inlet temp didn't matter, it very well could! They have to give compressor effciency because that the only way to determine heat at any given point on the compressor map because its a dynamic variable.

In addition, we all know colder air is denser. and we all know turbos work off a pressure ratio. What does that mean, STFU? Well, allow me to explain it to you! It means that a turbo does not care how much boost it is creating, it merely cares how much it has to change the outlet pressure relative to the inlet pressure. The stock intake snorkel on a 1g DSM allows you to have about 11.2 PSI(total pressure) at the turbo inlet. Not very much considering atmosphereic is 14.7! This is because its a restrictive intake drawing in hot air. Now a cold air smooth pipe intake might allow you to have, Oh, 14 psi at the inlet. This change in air pressure allows you to run the same boost at a significantly lower pressure ratio, which in turn will move you onto a better island of compressor effciency on your compressor map. This, in turn, means that the compressor, adding the same mount of boost into your enegine, will be allowed to rotate at a slower spped, produce less friction with the air, and produce significantly lower outlet temperatures.

Once again, I have done MANY back to back passes at the track, and tons of datalogging, all of which has verified that turbos like denser air at colder temperature at the turbo ilet, fucking....DUH.


Now, this has to be the, all time, stupidest statement ever.


Fact: The compressor of a turbo is VERY VERY HOT... No dense air will exit the compressor outlet. The compressor outlet will heat the air to whatever temps the compressor housing is at. Thats it.

A. it presumes the compressor housing temperature is a constant irrelevant of inlet temps and copressor effciency.

B. It means that I should not have had to upgrade compressor sides on my turbo ever. After all, I only run 22 psi on the street, which my stock 14b turbo was capable of pushing. Since all turbos just heat up air to the temperature of the compressor housing(which is obviously irrelevant of compressor effciency, since intake temps and pressure AT THE INLET don't matter, which i always thought was vitally important, since compressor maps are uttery dependent on inlet and oulet conditions....)


Blah blah blah

Point, intake mani temp is directly and vitally connected to IAT. Point, numerous hours and extensive hours of track testing have shown me its true.

leaveit2bevo
02-06-2004, 12:29 PM
hmmm I think that itsstockofficer has acctually done tests and has evidence to prove his point so unless you have counter evidence stufu im going to have to agree with above.

STFU Tuning
02-06-2004, 01:43 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Just remember that the inlet temp in your fender wall, or where ever you put that cai, will not fall below ambient temp. It is not possible. Now think about how much warmer the air is under the hood. Sure, at a stop, but think about it at speed. How much warmer is it as you accelerate forward. Not that much is the answer. There is not anywhere near the difference needed to accomplish what you are talking about. Stick to the IC, and if it's not enough, go with WI.

If you think a list of DSM cars will prove some type of credibility, then I could simply ldo the same and have you beat by more than you could handle. Your list is puny and carries no water.

leaveit2bevo
02-06-2004, 01:49 PM
hey buddy whatever helps you sleep at night you have no evidence to support your claims just your opinion thats only quasi-reflective thinking.

STFU Tuning
02-06-2004, 03:15 PM
Are we really going to play the "I got the last word" game? I have given you all the evidence you need. Look at the short rams on the Supras, Scoobies, DSM's, My Callaway twin turbo vette. Have you ever seen people who run speed density tat don't need a MAF? Have you seen the people who attatch the air filter directly to the turbo inlet? Have you seen these people run with no air filter over the inlet? Just a wide open inlet? (I hate that idea btw since it is a easy way to break things.) Anyways, those are some of the fastest cars out there.

Be original next time. And you obviously wouldn't know evidence if crawled up into places we don't speak about at dinner. Here is my advice. Go read some books, learn some more, and don't be a keyboard jocky that rides on the argument of someone else just because it makes you feel better about the POS CAI you spent too much on. Just do that, then email me any time and we can continue a more educated conversation.

leaveit2bevo
02-06-2004, 03:21 PM
lol ok you tried to have the last word on your post before mine so your hipacritical. Second your a quasi-reflective thinker with a confirmation bias, what you have given is your "opinion" not acctual evidence, you have obviously only searched for opionons that support your own opionion thus your confirmation bias. Third once agian just becuase one person are a few do something it doesnt mean that its the correct way. Just because there running short rams dosent mean its the most effective way. Ill be the first one to admit that I could be wrong but you have posted no evidence to support your claim, only constants that you assume you know.

perversity
02-06-2004, 04:49 PM
lol ok you tried to have the last word on your post before mine so your hipacritical. Second your a quasi-reflective thinker with a confirmation bias, what you have given is your "opinion" not acctual evidence, you have obviously only searched for opionons that support your own opionion thus your confirmation bias. Third once agian just becuase one person are a few do something it doesnt mean that its the correct way. Just because there running short rams dosent mean its the most effective way. Ill be the first one to admit that I could be wrong but you have posted no evidence to support your claim, only constants that you assume you know.

Bevo, quit it! People are entitled to differences in opinions and both STFU and Isstock... have demonstrated to know a fair bit about the subject. We all know that different combinations of mods produce different results, but this doesn't neet to turn into a slagging match.

If you continue to ride people who are posting information to help out other members then these people will stop posting and we all lose out.

So quit it.

And no - don't start flaming me, either. If you have anything to say to me about this feel free to PM me.

leaveit2bevo
02-07-2004, 02:12 AM
OMG you have got to be joking me did you miss read my posts?? Im not riding any one, I was even nice to him so whats the problem? WHATS NOT GETTING US ANYWHERE IS PEOPLE POSTING THERE OPIONON WITH OUT ACCTUAL EVIDENCE TO SUPORT WHAT THEY "BELIEVE"

ErroR
02-07-2004, 08:37 AM
OK thread is on the verge of being locked. This is rediculous. If you have an opinion that is fine and we all appreciate the information provided from all sides. Discussion is fine, argument with personal attacks is not. Please keep it civil.

STFU Tuning
02-07-2004, 10:07 AM
Yawn...

leaveit2bevo:

I have given you evidence. Why don't you read Corky Bell? Is it laziness or illiteracy? All you have to do is a little of your own research. Oh, and research doesn't always mean reading forums. Books are your friend.

leaveit2bevo
02-07-2004, 11:30 AM
none of you understand me im not attacking anyone I even said stufu could very well be right and I could be wrong!! all I said is that you havent produced very good evidence and its true, all your comments are your opionon, itsstockofficer acctually did TESTING so ill believe him before I believe your opionon.

Anonymous
02-07-2004, 11:43 AM
lmao, this is a classic, lets all have a civil war shall we?

STFU Tuning
02-07-2004, 07:44 PM
It must be the illiteracy

leaveit2bevo
02-08-2004, 02:18 AM
It must be the illiteracy

Wait im confused Tony called me out for know reason and you call me illiterate. your obviously using adhomenims(sp?) to attack me because ive made better valid points then you. You have cognative dissonance and thats why your angry about me saying you have no evidence but what you believe is "evidence"

Anonymous
02-08-2004, 10:52 AM
Okay i started this stupid thread to know more about freakin Intakes, and this thread is going no where, maybe you Moderators should close my thread because its just turning out real lame.....BEVO i hear ya but you got to listen to the older people, they are more in charge, and you should be lucky that they accept you in socalevo.net and not give you the BAN, same as me.....i blew off to gotardSRT and i pushed him out of this site, but still i disrespected the moderators who have to go through the bullshit we put on the Threads.
Hell ye they were pissed off at me.....So its best to just not continue this crap, and best for STFU Tuning to stop his act too, just let it go, or it would be best if this stupid thread would be locked.

ItsStockOfficer
02-08-2004, 01:25 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Just remember that the inlet temp in your fender wall, or where ever you put that cai, will not fall below ambient temp. It is not possible. Now think about how much warmer the air is under the hood. Sure, at a stop, but think about it at speed. How much warmer is it as you accelerate forward. Not that much is the answer. There is not anywhere near the difference needed to accomplish what you are talking about. Stick to the IC, and if it's not enough, go with WI.

If you think a list of DSM cars will prove some type of credibility, then I could simply ldo the same and have you beat by more than you could handle. Your list is puny and carries no water.


A. Now your story has changed from, you don't need colder air to you can't get colder air. Thats amusing, which is it?

B. I datalogged it. Temperature according to my thermometer was 54 degrees. Temerature with the Maf in the fender was reading 58 degrees, Something there is off but It hardly matters. Temperature sitting at a stop with my maf in the engine bay sat at 151 degrees. temperature on the freeway got it down to 87. Temperature beating on it hovered around the mid 90's to low 100's. This is back to back, I can change my intake setup in about 20 seconds with a screw driver. The cold air intake yielded on average 7-11 counts of knocks, while the hot air yielded about 11-14. ignition timing at redline was retarded a solid 2-3 degrees. The car felt much worse with hot air.

With my cold air intake, yesterday, I ran 12.2 on 91 octane and full weight. Not bad.

So, we know it does something, now your gonna tell me it doesn't matter?

Your getting some serious cause and effect mix ups. Your saying the comp housing gets that hot and thus heats up the air to its temperature. trhats backwards. The air gets heated up during compression, and then it in turn heats up the comp housing. You can keep temperature much much lower by startign with air that is 30+ degrees colder and significantly more dense.

Or so it would seem.

leaveit2bevo
02-08-2004, 02:57 PM
yes thank you, see more evidence that proves colder air is better.

Anonymous
02-08-2004, 03:01 PM
Cold air is always better of course, since i read about short rams and cold air intakes there is a big ass difference....Anyways....i was actually gonna buy the aem short ram then people recommanded the cold air, so im investing in my next mod which will be one of the best cold airs out there in japan

leaveit2bevo
02-08-2004, 10:47 PM
which cold air intake is that malibu?

Anonymous
02-08-2004, 11:18 PM
haha..... secrets, secrets my friend....you shall see hopefully by meet 9 :), im thinkin 3 weeks i will get it from japan

GokuSSJ4
02-09-2004, 02:01 AM
just as long as you dont do it home made and slap cusco sticker on it :lol: j/k...

Ricardon
02-10-2004, 03:06 AM
I can't believe that anyone would argue the fact that colder air wouldn't make a difference. I understand that I'm posting waaaaaay late here, but it still seems funny. I don't argue as eloquently as some, but you've got to be kidding me. Of course the compressor temps aren't static, and of course the colder the air you draw in, the more power you will make. As was said before, on NA motors the difference is more apparent, but WTF...it's basic guys. The APS intake is VERY expensive, but it is of INSANE quality as well. Sometimes you have to pay for good quality stuff. As far as the IC sprayer bottle, yes it does make a difference, so if your'e thinking about the APS, make sure you don't shrug off the bottle as useless expense. Ever see the size of the IC spray bottles on race cars? They are immense, and they are usually setup to spray extremely frequently if not constantly.

GokuSSJ4
02-10-2004, 11:18 AM
from what i saw at brainstorm , the APS dont seem that much for 420.00
from all the things that it brings . Im considering the aps cai , is great quality ...

cheyne
02-10-2004, 03:12 PM
haha..... secrets, secrets my friend....you shall see hopefully by meet 9 :), im thinkin 3 weeks i will get it from japan

What intake did you decide to go with? PM me

GokuSSJ4
02-10-2004, 06:33 PM
i think is his special project :lol: to beat everyone went he goes canyon racing ..

Ricardon
02-10-2004, 11:10 PM
i think is his special project :lol: to beat everyone went he goes canyon racing ..

Hehehehe! On the APS, yeah that thing is very expensive, obviously when you buy the whole stage kit with all the extra goodies it becomes a much better value, but you really have to hold that piece in your hands and you'll see how NICELY it is built!

GokuSSJ4
02-10-2004, 11:33 PM
i figure that you pay for a regular cai between 250-300
and since with the APS kit you are also getting the bottle , is more then worth it .. I wonder how easy is that thing to install ...hmmm

QuickShifter
02-10-2004, 11:40 PM
To bad thats not the case, a guy on evom set up temp things and his conclusion was that the turbo charger did not heat all the air up to the same temp.


Leaveit2bevo.....are you crazy....i dont care who did what test, a cold air intake is useless....the turbo runs near 450 degrees...how could it not heat up all the air!!!! thats ridiculous, in addition to this conversation....i have the vishnu exede and my aem intake is throwing off the mas and cutting boost in 3rd gear to 12 lbs, putting my stock intake back on, theres the answer to why vishnu doesnt use an aftermarket intake...they told me it was because the stock intake was a true cold air intake...true but at the same time its bs because any aftermarket intake will no doubt increase hp especially on a forced induction car....they dont even use one on their 550 horsepower upgraded turbo...this really dissapoints me with the exede in one aspect, its great and all, but the aem ems will compensate for the mas...vishnu really needs to fix this problem, does anyone hae any suggestions that might throw the mas signals back to normal while still keeping the aftermarket intake??? i hope so, because turbo spool is much quicker with it on.....maybe we should bug the shit out of shiv until he figures something out, cuz i even got mine custome tuned on his dyno and they just couldnt work around it, fucking custom tune and my money was thrown to waste...not to mention the fact that i had to drive to san fran from santa monica for the tune, now when i put the stock intake back on ill download a regular map, fuck that pisses me off :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Ricardon
02-11-2004, 01:22 AM
Quickshifter, first off this isn't a haze on you so don't take it as such. Nobody said that the turbo doesn't heat up the air sucked into it. Of course it is, it's being heated and compressed from the time it enters the turbo. What we are arguing is that the air is not being heated to a static temperature, simply put if you stuff colder air into the turbo it will innevitably be a little colder upon exiting the compressor. This is one of the reasons you see some drag cars running no air filter at all into their turbos, either having ducting directly to the turbo or simply having the turbo sticking out of the hood. Any argument that air temperatures are completely static is totally insane, and baffles me really. I guess if I were to post that the sky is blue, and I had 10 replies, 5 would agree and 5 would say that I was full of crap.

ItsStockOfficer
02-11-2004, 01:28 AM
To bad thats not the case, a guy on evom set up temp things and his conclusion was that the turbo charger did not heat all the air up to the same temp.


Leaveit2bevo.....are you crazy....i dont care who did what test, a cold air intake is useless....the turbo runs near 450 degrees...how could it not heat up all the air!!!! thats ridiculous, in addition to this conversation....i have the vishnu exede and my aem intake is throwing off the mas and cutting boost in 3rd gear to 12 lbs, putting my stock intake back on, theres the answer to why vishnu doesnt use an aftermarket intake...they told me it was because the stock intake was a true cold air intake...true but at the same time its bs because any aftermarket intake will no doubt increase hp especially on a forced induction car....they dont even use one on their 550 horsepower upgraded turbo...this really dissapoints me with the exede in one aspect, its great and all, but the aem ems will compensate for the mas...vishnu really needs to fix this problem, does anyone hae any suggestions that might throw the mas signals back to normal while still keeping the aftermarket intake??? i hope so, because turbo spool is much quicker with it on.....maybe we should bug the shit out of shiv until he figures something out, cuz i even got mine custome tuned on his dyno and they just couldnt work around it, fucking custom tune and my money was thrown to waste...not to mention the fact that i had to drive to san fran from santa monica for the tune, now when i put the stock intake back on ill download a regular map, fuck that pisses me off :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Thats most long winded silly rant ever. All I can say is I would like to know where a turbo is 450 and how it matters. The exhaust is up to 1600+ and the intake out;let temps are normally around 200-300....maybe the comp housing really is 450, after getting heated up my heat transfar, but I fnd in somewhat unlikely, although I wouldn't know. Regardlss its obvious its the compression heating air, not the comp housing temp.

GokuSSJ4
02-11-2004, 09:41 AM
didnt they say by getting your car custom tune with the cai , that the xede wouldnt have those problems ??
Also by having a cai does it affect the car the same way if you Xflash the car ??

BOVBILLY
02-11-2004, 07:30 PM
GUYS. END THIS NOW. I HAVE THE SOLUTION. I WILL BUY 50 BLOCKS OF ICE FOR EVERYBODY. I WILL STRAP IT ON TO MY HOOD AND ONE NEAR MY FMIC.

I WILL KICK ALL OF YOUR ASSES THEN

BOVBILLY
02-11-2004, 07:32 PM
To bad thats not the case, a guy on evom set up temp things and his conclusion was that the turbo charger did not heat all the air up to the same temp.


Leaveit2bevo.....are you crazy....i dont care who did what test, a cold air intake is useless....the turbo runs near 450 degrees...how could it not heat up all the air!!!! thats ridiculous, in addition to this conversation....i have the vishnu exede and my aem intake is throwing off the mas and cutting boost in 3rd gear to 12 lbs, putting my stock intake back on, theres the answer to why vishnu doesnt use an aftermarket intake...they told me it was because the stock intake was a true cold air intake...true but at the same time its bs because any aftermarket intake will no doubt increase hp especially on a forced induction car....they dont even use one on their 550 horsepower upgraded turbo...this really dissapoints me with the exede in one aspect, its great and all, but the aem ems will compensate for the mas...vishnu really needs to fix this problem, does anyone hae any suggestions that might throw the mas signals back to normal while still keeping the aftermarket intake??? i hope so, because turbo spool is much quicker with it on.....maybe we should bug the shit out of shiv until he figures something out, cuz i even got mine custome tuned on his dyno and they just couldnt work around it, fucking custom tune and my money was thrown to waste...not to mention the fact that i had to drive to san fran from santa monica for the tune, now when i put the stock intake back on ill download a regular map, fuck that pisses me off :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


I HAVE PROZAC AT HOME. I THINK WE ALL NEED SOME. CHILL PEOPLE!

leaveit2bevo
02-11-2004, 07:49 PM
they told me it was because the stock intake was a true cold air intake

I sure hope you were joking with that statment.

GokuSSJ4
02-11-2004, 10:02 PM
unless some one dynos the same car with different intakes ( short ram vs cai ) then people will know how much of a difference it makes on a FI car ...

inline4g63
02-11-2004, 11:36 PM
all I knoe is the HKS RS intake makes the stock BOV as loud as one can imagine, without the chirping of course.