* PASSION OF THE CHRIST *

[mr. evo]

Has anyone gone to see this movie yet? What did you think about it?

[Takashi]

i refuse to see it... starsky and hutch on the other hand...

[mr. evo]

Yeah... I wan't to see Starsky and Hutch as well! Why do you refuse to see it?

[Takashi]

well, here's the jist of it... i'm not atheist, but i'm definately not religeous. i think the movie is way hyped, i think it's ridicuous that they are trying to generate money from a movie that is based on the bible, and i dont feel like i should contribute to it. i'm not trying to offend anyone, but it's just not my thing...

plus, i've read a ton of reviews by private individuals, and most of the reviews are SOOOOo biased it makes me sick. the reviews talk mostly about jesus' sacrifice and not about the movie itself.

okay, so maybe those aren't very good reasons, but i just refuse to see it :)

greg

[rizalhoo]

ill go see it tommorow at amc azusa. anyone joining? :P

[EVO_RPM]

I just saw it yesterday. Great depiction of the last 12hours of Jesus Christ here on earth. I'm religious myself so it opened up my eyes to what Jesus went thru.

- Rich

[moogle]

Not touching religious subject with a 20ft pole, but I am going to touch the theaters @ the millz tomorrow to watch it.

[mr. evo]

I saw it on wednesday and loved it... man did it twist my stomach though. I am going to see it agian on sat evening in torrance... It turns out that I have two extra tickets also if anyone is interested. If so PM me.

[GokuSSJ4]

im going tonight to see it , the funny thing is that this is not the first movie based on Jesus Christ life or does touch the subject that it does . Yet people are shock by it, since with all the advretising going .The funny thing is that since a movie of this type of topic hasnt been made in a long time people are interested by it ...
Which is a good thing....
Will see how it is tonight :cool:

[EVO_RPM]

im going tonight to see it , the funny thing is that this is not the first movie based on Jesus Christ life or does touch the subject that it does . Yet people are shock by it, since with all the advretising going .The funny thing is that since a movie of this type of topic hasnt been made in a long time people are interested by it ...
Which is a good thing....
Will see how it is tonight :cool:

I'm pretty sure no one believes this is the first movies based on Jesus Christ's life. I myself have seen over a dozen movies just on the same time frame as the Passion of the Christ. What is shocking in this movie is how accurate it depicts the Gospels of the Bible. Many movies of Jesus Christ in the past has been very mild compared to this. When you see this movie you will know what i'm talking about. You can almost feel what Jesus went through in the last 12 hours of his human life.

- Rich

[GokuSSJ4]

you mean how it discrives "like a sheep was sent to the slatter house " not accurate on how specific the passage is from Isaiah ...
Im seeing it tonight so im sure i will have an opinion...

[moogle]

This movie is awesome. I can literally feel and grunge how he went through. Religious/athiest don't matter I recommend this movie but its not for the weak heart bcz is gorrrrRRY has h3ll.

[rizalhoo]

just watched it. to be honest, I CRIED! but not ashamed though since after watching that movie I know HE wasnt ashamed to take all of our sins upon that cross and died for everyone of us :)

anyhow as moogle said, Religious/Not Religious/Atheist doesnt matter, I too recommend this movie to all :)

[marc]

Hey guys. It's just a damn movie! My church is behind the wheel of the EVO or even better when I'm mountain biking in the backcountry by myself for 4 hours. It doesn't matter where you are doing your praying and your question asking. All that matters is that the (a) spirit gives you answers and you are grateful for the existence we are priveleged to be a part of. Dogmatic teachings are impersonal and subject to interpretation. Personal experience is not. Need anyone say more?

[EVO_RPM]

I think that only certain people will get something from this movie. Its either you think its just a movie or something more.

- Rich

[rizalhoo]

yup, if the motivation of watching the movie is to see the real meaning why this movie is created then you'll find the reason but if it is just a movie then it will be just a movie

[Ricardon]

I actually can't wait to see it. I may go this weekend, we'll see. I was a history major and love almost any movie that attempts to depict history with accuracy. Whether you believe the Christian belief that Jesus was the son of God or not, he was a person that walked the Earth, hence there is some historical value to it. I loved the intro scene to Saving Private Ryan as it depicted how absolutely nasty the landing at Normandy was. Most of the first few boats didn't land a single soldier on the beach!! It wasn't gratuitous violence, but an intent to show people what it was like to be there. I have heard this about "Passion", and thus I can't wait to check it out!

[Hallster]

I saw it last night. Awesome movie!

As a beleiver in Christ, I'm glad to see a biblical film done with today's film talent and potrayed in a "real" way. For instance, I thought the "Jesus" film was boring. A film like this has been long over due, IMO.

I hope the success of this film spawns a few other bible-based movies. The logical continuance of "The Passion" would be "Acts".

A few Old Testament movies would kick-ass.... like the life of David would make any modern movie seem like milktoast.

Now that I've seen it once, I want to see it again.

Sean

[GokuSSJ4]

It was a great !!!! movie , and i will see it again to me is a must . I have taking theology (not sure if spell right )
and have study some parts of the bible . I know that Chris had sacrifice so much for us which we dont deserve (since we are saved by grace and not works)
But with this films it goes in to details (since previous onces have showned part of it ) and show you and lets you have an idea what he went throught . What held him on the cross wasent the nails but the love for every single one of us .
Some people may not understand why he went throught the things that he did . But all i can say is that im thankfull that he did , and forever gratefull!!!!!!!! .....:)

[EVO_RPM]

It was a great !!!! movie , and i will see it again to me is a must . I have taking theology (not sure if spell right )
and have study some parts of the bible . I know that Chris had sacrifice so much for us which we dont deserve (since we are saved by grace and not works)
But with this films it goes in to details (since previous onces have showned part of it ) and show you and lets you have an idea what he went throught . What held him on the cross wasent the nails but the love for every single one of us .
Some people may not understand why he went throught the things that he did . But all i can say is that im thankfull that he did , and forever gratefull!!!!!!!! .....:)

What did I tell you. It really shows you how Jesus saved us from our sins.

Now you know what i mean by how other movies of Christ in the past are mild compared to this

- Rich

[rizalhoo]

It was a great !!!! movie , and i will see it again to me is a must . I have taking theology (not sure if spell right )
and have study some parts of the bible . I know that Chris had sacrifice so much for us which we dont deserve (since we are saved by grace and not works)
But with this films it goes in to details (since previous onces have showned part of it ) and show you and lets you have an idea what he went throught . What held him on the cross wasent the nails but the love for every single one of us .
Some people may not understand why he went throught the things that he did . But all i can say is that im thankfull that he did , and forever gratefull!!!!!!!! .....:)


AMEN !!! :D

[GokuSSJ4]

It was a great !!!! movie , and i will see it again to me is a must . I have taking theology (not sure if spell right )
and have study some parts of the bible . I know that Chris had sacrifice so much for us which we dont deserve (since we are saved by grace and not works)
But with this films it goes in to details (since previous onces have showned part of it ) and show you and lets you have an idea what he went throught . What held him on the cross wasent the nails but the love for every single one of us .
Some people may not understand why he went throught the things that he did . But all i can say is that im thankfull that he did , and forever gratefull!!!!!!!! .....:)

What did I tell you. It really shows you how Jesus saved us from our sins.

Now you know what i mean by how other movies of Christ in the past are mild compared to this

- Rich

your absolutly right , is way different from what they done on the past ...
As soon as it comes out , im buying it for DVD hehe .
Very powerful film ..

[rizalhoo]

yup, same here :) definately a must, well at least for me though :)

[JWest]

Yep I am a Christian, yes I saw the movie, yes I cried, yes one way or the other you will be touched by this movie. To say that its strong would be a huge understatement. (would not recommend it to anyone under 13years old/ has a weak stomach/ or a weak heart)

As for those with thoughts about what religion is or isn't, I would suggest you read & learn more before its too late.
There will be a test at the end, whether you choose to believe or not;-)

Joshua West

[Hallster]

Any of you guys interested in getting together in a few weeks to see The Passion again?

Sean

[GokuSSJ4]

i will be seing it again , dont know went thats for sure. But went you are let me know ....

[Hallster]

How about the weekend of March 20th?

Sean

[dpardo]

Sean Hall said:

"A few Old Testament movies would kick-ass.... like the life of David would make any modern movie seem like milktoast."

I totally agree. Hearing the story of David, which I believe is in the book of Samuel (old testament), was absolutely incredible!

I listened to it at work on audio. It is best to start at 1st Samuel...

http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/1_samuel_1.html

[GokuSSJ4]

even the life of Paul would be great , but an second movie like Acts would be great as well...

[Hallster]

yeah, and you really get the feel for what David went through in PSALMs... he had an amazing life! a lot of the famous scriptures come from David... here's a few:

Psalm 9:2
I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

Psalm 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.
Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, [1]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

[Ricardon]

I wouldn't mind seeing a movie about the life of David, or perhaps Solomon. Talk about a history lesson, packed with action!!! Get peter jackson to direct it!!! I actually liked the Richard Geere version. Remake that with today's special effects and higher tolerances for on-screen violence...would be a solid flick!

[GokuSSJ4]

with some Matrix technology behind it and it would make the fighting seens interesting ...

[JWest]

For those that have questions and want quick true answers.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

:-)

JW

[mr. evo]

Thanks guys for beeing so open and speaking your minds on this subject. This is definatly a subject that is very touchy for some, and i apreciate everyones honest oppinions, weather you agree with this movie or not... is there anyone who didn't like the movie, and or disagrees with it? Why?

[GokuSSJ4]

There was a small part that i quiet didnt understand (had to go to the restroom :( ) went he was getting whip , theres a scene were is either death or the devil ... that shows carrying a child , anyone know the meaning or is it mention on the scriptures of anything of it . Or was it just part of the movie ???

[mr. evo]

I asked my room-mates about this and this is what we came up with: I believe that the guy with no eyebrows was the devil, for many reasons. The small figure with him was probably the anti-christ. The reason for this is that the anti-christ came into the world to oppose the work that Jesus had just accomplished. If you think about it, it only makes sence - The Christ is put to death, therfore not around to defend himself. Now his battle is against those who believe and are spreading the Word. This is why the Holly Spirit "helper" is sent for us. With out the Holy Spirit we rely on our own power to stay on track...

[GokuSSJ4]

ok that explains , i figure it was the devil but my family kept on saying that was death ...
An that would explain for the anichrist ....

[rizalhoo]

I asked my room-mates about this and this is what we came up with: I believe that the guy with no eyebrows was the devil, for many reasons. The small figure with him was probably the anti-christ. The reason for this is that the anti-christ came into the world to oppose the work that Jesus had just accomplished. If you think about it, it only makes sence - The Christ is put to death, therfore not around to defend himself. Now his battle is against those who believe and are spreading the Word. This is why the Holly Spirit "helper" is sent for us. With out the Holy Spirit we rely on our own power to stay on track...

Yup, that was what I thought too. Anyhow if you guys noticed at the end of the movie where all of the actors/actresses real name is, the devil (the guy with no eyebrow) is a girl. So the one whom play as the devil is actually a female (looks like a male huh? lol...)

[GokuSSJ4]

yeah she sure does !!! i guess cause they wanted to represent a beautiful creature ....

[mr. evo]

Agian, is there anyone who had a negative oppinion tward this movie? I would like to know...

[dpardo]

yeah she sure does !!! i guess cause they wanted to represent a beautiful creature ....

I think it's so interesting that some people, thanks in large part to Hollywood, think that Satan is ugly/hideous/monstrous. But as GokuSSJ4 alluded, Satan is beautiful. He is "like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour", but that refers to his character.

The notion that one of your own creations, one of your "sons" so to speak, would rebel and want to supplant you as "supreme" is incredible!

I guess if you think about it, it makes sense. If you give free will to all creatures, not all of them will love you, no matter how good you are to them. Do you then kill them? At some point, according to the bible, Satan will be destroyed. But he is still a "son" of God nonetheless. If I had a son like that, would it be easy for me to kill him? No doubt he was once a beloved son- before he rebelled.

I have a theory though...

God is using Satan to fulfill his purposes in the world. He uses him to test people and to hone people.

Satan obviously knows what his ultimate fate is. What would you do in his situation? What does God allow him to do?

Oftentimes people forget that human death is only a stepping stone to the next world- either Heaven or 2nd death (permanent). If we focus our minds on the next life, an incredible, unfathomable existence, we are able to cope with death here much more easily. I hope I never have to deal with the death of a child, though. It would be an enormous test of my faith.

Am I rambling?

[Takashi]

Agian, is there anyone who had a negative oppinion tward this movie? I would like to know...

i wouldn't say this is negative, but one comment i have heard is that one of the lines of the movie has jesus telling the romans that their sin is not as bad as the sins commited by the jewish people (due to the fact that the romans were merely doing their jobs). does this correspond with the scriptures?

disclaimer: didn't see the movie, dont really know much... :)

[rizalhoo]

[quote="dpardo"...God is using Satan to fulfill his purposes in the world. He uses him to test people and to hone people.

Satan obviously knows what his ultimate fate is. What would you do in his situation? What does God allow him to do? ...

[/quote]

I dont quite agree with the saying that God is using satan to test people, if you read the book of Job in the Bible, satan knows that God protects peoples, he even said that God surround Job with His protection that he can't do nothing.

Also the bible says that man fall into sins or man was tested because of their own willingness. I don't know whether this make sense or not but this is what I know though :)

[GokuSSJ4]

honestly is a deep subject to discuss and not an easy one . but what better with the scriture to show passages for what God has instore for us .
I need to see if i can find some good scripture to thsi subject , since i dont want to throw any random ideas out there with out looking in to it ....




Agian, is there anyone who had a negative oppinion tward this movie? I would like to know...

i wouldn't say this is negative, but one comment i have heard is that one of the lines of the movie has jesus telling the romans that their sin is not as bad as the sins commited by the jewish people (due to the fact that the romans were merely doing their jobs). does this correspond with the scriptures?

disclaimer: didn't see the movie, dont really know much... :)

well i know that they cut out a part from the movie to were he (jesus ) calls out sorry if its interpret the wrong way since i know the term in spanish , white tombstone ..
See the bad thing on this is that Jewish (or Hebrew ) people were defensive to begin with , since they think is an attack against their race . Went it has nothing to do with the actual people but with history and the events that took place with in those times . Not a racial thing but what actiolly happen .
Is like saying went the Hebrew people went through differnt things with Moses because they were revelious and didnt want to listen to God's will , does that make them a target , ofcourse not but people can always take it the wrong way .
Jewish people are bless by God in general , because of Abraham ( the father of faith ) that was able to follow God with out seeing him and believed in him to even be willing to give the life of his own son, but why cause God had given him a promise ...

[ItsStockOfficer]

I really don't understand the point. Ok, it was a brutal execution, but there have certainly been worse, and he didn't, in the end, do anything we all don't have to do anyways.

[GokuSSJ4]

Is not so much to be a regular execution , he came here to give himself as a sacrifice for all of us .
To take our sins and nail them to the cross , to have a way to the Father .
John 3:16 God's love for humanity
Isaiah 53:5-7 the reason he suffer for us
To God to give the best he has to offer , his Son JesusChrist and to died for us and death of cross....

[mr. evo]

ItsStockOfficer said: and he didn't, in the end, do anything we all don't have to do anyways.

Mabe you could clarify what you mean a little more on what you were trying to say... becuase I sure don't know of anyone else who died then arose from the dead three days later. I don't think that is what you ment so please clarify.

[GokuSSJ4]

ok this is what i meant by those 2 passages .
First one is John which talks about God's love and how he has given the most precious thing that he had his Son , to show that he cares and that His will is for men (everyone) to be save . Remember that we all have free will and not something he wants to obligate us too.

As for Isaiah it talks about what Jesus was gonna go through , is not the he was made to go through those things , he chose too.
At the begining of the movie and is also told on the gospel that he was reveal everything that he was going to experince. Thats why he even sweated blood. Can you imagine some one tell you that you are going to experience a terrible death and go through with it . I know that for most i speak we would take off runing .
He wasnt obligade to do anythign he didnt want , but he chose to do the Will of the Father and place his life on his hands. To show us that he care for us, thats why it wasnt just someone being tourcher or some one just experience death . It was some one that he was choosing to do to redeem humanity .

regarless what people say , this is part of history and that can not be denied . Just went Jesus was born , even change the time line , if you dont see it as a believe point of view, then do your research as historical facts. To find out what it talks about Jesus of Nazarett.

[Ricardon]

ItsStockOfficer said: and he didn't, in the end, do anything we all don't have to do anyways.

Mabe you could clarify what you mean a little more on what you were trying to say... becuase I sure don't know of anyone else who died then arose from the dead three days later. I don't think that is what you ment so please clarify.

And now the topic starts to get sticky!! The next SoCalEvo meet is gonna be like Bellfast, time to bullet-proof the EVO!

[GokuSSJ4]

lol i know there some topics being discuss but as long as people stay open mind it . it should be any problems ... i hope ....

[drwn kix]

I listened to an interesting comment on the movie on 89.3 fm today by a biblical scholar. He said that the details of this movie are based on revised versions of the accounts which were created during the reign of the Romans. These modifications to the gospels were designed to lessen the guilt of the the Romans by shifting it to Jews. What do you all think?

[Ricardon]

I listened to an interesting comment on the movie on 89.3 fm today by a biblical scholar. He said that the details of this movie are based on revised versions of the accounts which were created during the reign of the Romans. These modifications to the gospels were designed to lessen the guilt of the the Romans by shifting it to Jews. What do you all think?

Well, the study of history in general has brought me to the conclusion that this could be a deffinite possibility. Obviously I can't say for certain, but being that it was such an unpopular move with the aftermath of Christ's execution, it would make sense that the Romans were attempting to be as politically correct as possible. Hence the scripture reading that Pilot said to the Jews "I wash my hands" of the incident. Remember also that the victors write the history. He who controls the present controls the past. "European" imperialist nations tended to set up their empires on top of the existing nations they "conquered" in order to build stronger footholds, while most Asian empires and especially the British, tended towards wiping out and replacing existing cultures with their own. That's why you have such a strong theme of fusion, especially in religious practices with the ex-european colonies (I'm speaking VERY generally of course). Wow, talk about a tangent! I still haven't seen the movie LOL...I still am dying to though, just haven't had the time

[koolmits]

I haven't seen the flic , but as far as people dying and rising three days later , it happens everyday. It's called a "coma" . :D

One thing I would like to see happen to religion , is for all the gods ( god , allah , budha , etc. ) to get together on the moon or somewhere and have a battle royale or something . The last one standing is the one we worship . Until this happens , mankind will act on behalf of their particular god . Ultimately either destroying itself or having one prevailing religion . Think about it , most wars are fought over religious beliefs ........arguably all wars .
About the battle royale thing , I wonder if we could get that on pay per view ? What the odds @ Vegas would be ? :D

[dpardo]

[quote="koolmits"]I haven't seen the flic , but as far as people dying and rising three days later , it happens everyday. It's called a "coma" . :D

During the reign of the Roman Empire, the soldiers that were assigned to perform an execution would be executed themselves if they did not perform the task properly. Because of this, the soldiers made DAMN sure that all prisoners/victims that were supposed to be executed were INDEED dead!

[mr. evo]

Yeah... the ultimate fight would be cool, but the fact of the matter is, Jesus was not it just in a "coma". He did die, and weather or not you buy into if he died for you or not that is your oun issue. However you can not take it away from Jesus that in fact he did die and did rise agian three days later... do some research and try to prove history wrong on this.

The part were He died for me and you, took apon my sins and yours, to pave a way to heaven for us, and sends his Holy Spirit, as a helper, to live a holy life, well that takes faith... For me, it takes more faith to believe in a good man (like budha) that just died and had no power in his life. See Jesus not only rose from the dead but also preformed many other miracles in his day. In fact people still preform miraculous things by his name today!

[Hallster]

I listened to an interesting comment on the movie on 89.3 fm today by a biblical scholar. He said that the details of this movie are based on revised versions of the accounts which were created during the reign of the Romans. These modifications to the gospels were designed to lessen the guilt of the the Romans by shifting it to Jews. What do you all think?

I heard part of the broadcast. I noticed the interviewer didn't ask any questions one would ask to make sure he did his homework. Such as the miracles that were well documented:
- jesus was crucified on the same day the jews make their yearly sacrificial offering.
- what happened to Jesus? Where is he?
- sky went dark for three hours after crucifixion. prohiced in the old testment as well
- jewish temple was split down the middle.
- many people saw Jesus after the crucifixion.

There are other miracles as well. Josephus Flavouis was a secular historian during the roman empire. he documented what happened at the time as well. I didn't listen to the whole interview, but I didn't hear any mention of Josephus' accounts of the time.

[drwn kix]

Truth is hard to determine and maybe unarguable. The biggest problem from an argument standpoint is that most Christians see the bible as devine inspired writings from God and unquestionable. They have no problem with these facts.
1. There are many versions of the Bible and that men have translated the Bible in subtle and not so subtly different ways.
2. A congress of men decided approximately 1800 years ago which of the many gospels would be discarded and which would be included. Mormons added additional books in modern times. Mary Magdelene's books would be very interesting today.
3. Within the Christian community there are widely varied beliefs from a literal interpretation of everything (Requiring a total disbelief in the the science of Geology, Biology, Genetics, Evolution, Astrophysics, Etc.), to seeing everything as guides and allegories which have to be taken in the context of the culture in which they were written and one can apply these principles on how to live. There are common beliefs in every point between these two extreme positions.
4. Most branches of Christians believe that all others and anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell. (This is the majority of the worlds population.) :shock:

Suffice it say that this movie is a layman's interpretation of a translators interpretation of books written by men 2000 years ago. It sounds too gory for me.

[ObsoleteAsian]

After watching the movie, I figured it was a strong message beyond belief. On the term of its actual occurance in history, and the truth behind the imagery. It can be dead on or not. Reason be the knowledge behind this subject is so weak. History unfortuantly is written by the winners. I havn't read much of the bible yet, but I do so plan to after a few books I have lined up already to read. Mostly in an analytical and self spiritual sense. Also an issue is that the bible is not written by god but by people. The power of man to have choice, is the reason the bible itself may not strong factual information of the time. But none the less, should have a strong basis of what occured. I have trouble with today's view on religion so to be interconnected with the church and follow the beliefs of the new days, this topic usually burns by the time it hits 5'o clock news.

[JWest]

"One thing I would like to see happen to religion , is for all the gods ( god , allah , budha , etc. ) to get together on the moon or somewhere and have a battle royale or something . The last one standing is the one we worship . Until this happens , mankind will act on behalf of their particular god . Ultimately either destroying itself or having one prevailing religion . "

Heh, yeah through the Old testament God calls out the other supposed gods, repeatedly. Nothing showed-up to appose Him. As for the prince of this world, he lost at the cross. He wanted us all destroyed, but when Jesus said "it is finished" that was it. Now all you have to do is believe.

If you're looking for more proof of God's power read-up on the history of Israel since WWII. That little country sits there as a sign from God to YOU! God said it would be this way, by human logic it makes no sence. But it is the way it is.

JW

[drwn kix]

Where in the Bible is this "calling out". I would like to read that.

[EVO_RPM]

Where in the Bible is this "calling out". I would like to read that.

I would like to know as well. I have never heard of something like this ever. And please guys, lets all be open minded with what everyone has to say.

- Rich

[rizalhoo]

one good example is the story of Elijah challenged those baal god to prove whether is the baal is really a god or Elijah's God is the real ONE then whomever could call out fire also call the rain since it hadnt rain for 3 1/2 years(because Elijah prayed to God so) from heaven then he is really god so the baal follower did their prayer thing but nothing happened and Elijah prayed for rain to come down and later fire also came down from heaven. long story cut short, all of the baal priest were executed and Elijah's God is the real God which is the same God that came down to Earth and died for all of us which is Jesus Christ the movie that we just read.

Another example is the story of Daniel...read the Bible for more info, its all in there :)

[rizalhoo]

without disrespecting other religion ,since this had been brought up,u wont find in the bible God saying or its not like God was saying "Hey you budha, allah,etc come out and lets have a duel to prove that the last man standing is the real God" or whatsoever.

even if today as we all read this and all of the other challenging Him to a duel to prove who is the real God; I believe He doesnt have to prove anything since its all been proven 2000 years ago and He said "it is finished"

to me He died for me and thats enough for me to show that He loves me since I believe no one would/could go through all of those suffering He had gone through just to show that he/she loves me.

my 2c

[JWest]

OK, here are a few examples. My opinion is that God is calling out other gods (read, other religions). Your opinion may differ, but this is what's written.

Jer 2:28 But where [are] thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for [according to] the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.

Deu 32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ki/1Ki018.html#24

2Ki 19:17 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria have destroyed the nations and their lands,
2Ki 19:18 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they [were] no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them
Isa 37:36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses.

Psa 96:4 For the LORD [is] great, and greatly to be praised: he [is] to be feared above all gods.
Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, [even] they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Jer 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are] no gods?
Jer 16:21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name [is] The LORD.

Exd 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I [am] the LORD.

You can find a few more here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/g/1078513190-7718.html

Please understand I've posted this not to make anyone unhappy or to gain anything for myself. But, just to give an honest answer, to an important question.

Joshua West

[drwn kix]

I wonder how any religous non-Christians feel about this thread.

[mr. evo]

What do others think... That is why I posted it. I would like to see what people think about this subject. No one is trying to change anyones beliefs just having a discussion. I would, in fact, ask others that disagree to step in and discuss this topic, and those that do agree with this topic, DO NOT GANG UP on anyone or critisize someone for there oppinions or beliefs. Thank you

[Ricardon]

hey Josh, quit posting during work hours! Your'e supposed to be checking my suspension!!!!!! Just kidding, be nice to me!

[leaveit2bevo]

whats wrong with your suspension? I told you not to deliever so much tofo.

[Ricardon]

SSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[marc]

What I want to know is "How come our government is not standing up for our religious beliefs?Since we all know that our beliefs are the only correct ones what is wrong with nationalizing it?"

[JWest]

Well Marc,

State run religions & religion run states have always had problems. I say, have a good relationship with God, be in the Word and be concerned with this world and it's governments only to the extent God lays it on your heart.

Rich,
As for me. I have a cold, my car's sick, and everyone left to the track w/out me :-( Seems doing Bible research is what I am suppose to do today.

JW

[Ricardon]

Well Marc,

State run religions & religion run states have always had problems. I say, have a good relationship with God, be in the Word and be concerned with this world and it's governments only to the extent God lays it on your heart.

Rich,
As for me. I have a cold, my car's sick, and everyone left to the track w/out me :-( Seems doing Bible research is what I am suppose to do today.

JW

OOPS! JWest, that was intended for the other Josh "mr. evo" he's my service advisor...I noticed that his last post happened after I dropped my car off LOL!! But I agree with your above statement hehehe. Too many Josh's around here hehehe.

[drwn kix]

Well Marc,

State run religions & religion run states have always had problems. I say, have a good relationship with God, be in the Word and be concerned with this world and it's governments only to the extent God lays it on your heart.


JW

OOPS! JWest, that was intended for the other Josh "mr. evo" he's my service advisor...I noticed that his last post happened after I dropped my car off LOL!! But I agree with your above statement hehehe. Too many Josh's around here hehehe.

I couldn't agree more. And where it this consensus that you think exists. Christianity is by no means consistant between denominations. Mormons to Catholics to all of the Protestant variations are all different.
:? We live in a wonderful powerful country. The only way to destroy it is to make it a tyranny of the majority. People of all faiths must be able to live here, it is the reason why people came here and formed a country. Never forget that the Puritans were Christians and so were the English who were persecuting them. Remember, "Render unto Ceaser". This was not just a comment about taxes. 8)
Even today it is hard for me to see how the Republicans characterize themselves as the Christian party. Pro war, pro big business, anti small business, anti states rights, anti pollution controls, anti air bags, anti gas mileage guidelines and anti individual rights. An administration who accepts corporate donations and controls 10 to 1 over any other in history. An administration who is caught in their own lies and "careful truths" every day. How can any Christian be a Republican? And yet many people see it exactly the opposite. Who will rule? Some Christian groups would mandate Saturday as the day of worship. Do Jim Jones like organizations get a say? :?: :?: :?:

[GokuSSJ4]

the reason some christians seem them self as republican because they attend to be more conservative the Democratic party . Is not that there right on every issue but they attend to have better points of view in a christian perspective . Not all good ones but the most to the opposite of a democratic .

[drwn kix]

I couldn't agree with you less. Christians are generous. They want to take care of the planet. They don't want the mentally ill on the streets. They care about people not only the biggest corporations. The only reason Republicans have co-opeted the Abortian issue is to pull in people who would never vote for their true overriding agenda. How can you call changing all of the rules of government and running the worst spend and borrow policy in history as conservative? :?: I am a fiscal conservative. Who do I vote for?
Don't the lies bother anyone.

[Ricardon]

I couldn't agree with you less. Christians are generous. They want to take care of the planet. They don't want the mentally ill on the streets. They care about people not only the biggest corporations. The only reason Republicans have co-opeted the Abortian issue is to pull in people who would never vote for their true overriding agenda. How can you call changing all of the rules of government and running the worst spend and borrow policy in history as conservative? :?: I am a fiscal conservative. Who do I vote for?
Don't the lies bother anyone.

Interesting stuff is evolving here, and I would have been able to say 5 days ago that without a doubt, this topic was going to turn political. AND THIS IS MY ONE AND ONLY TRUE COMPLAINT ABOUT "CONVENTIONAL" RELIGION!!! It always ends up being political, and in the end becomes a means of justification for actions taken, "wrong" or "right". ALWAYS. Remember the Spanish conquest of the Americas? It should be blatantly obvious now, what with our current state of post 9-11 paranoia! Religion should never be used to back any political agenda. I don't consider myself to be a repulblican or a democrat, I am very conservative though. I don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't do...I should know better, but I realize that there are millions of people in this country that don't "know better", hence some of the rediculous laws that we have. I also don't believe in the "lesser of the two evils" theory either. Remember that song that goes "If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one your'e with" (excuse my ignorance I don't know who sings it)...PURE CRAP. Why do things half assed? Why vote for someone because the other guy is worse? Getting a little off topic here, sorry, but I think it helps make my point. God isn't a democrat or a republican....he is God, and should not be attached in any way shape or form to ANY form of political ideology. The very worst examples in history of what evil humans are capable of happen when God (whatever name you choose to give him) is attached to a political belief or action. 9-11 and subsequent/previous iterrations of radical Islamic "terrorism", The Balkans, Northern Ireland, The American Conquest, Salem etc...Sorry, I was totally agreeing with all your points before that one drwn kix. But hey, we're all rational here and I like the debate, positives come out of it for sure! :D

[GokuSSJ4]

since is you dont have very much options , dont get me wrong both parties have pros and cons , and it doesnt make one better then the other one . But as a believer you look to which party offers you the best to your believe , and most of the times are the republican since they attend to be conservative .
You are right God should never be put in the category of republican or democratic , and that was choose by men and not by God . Since in the book of Samuel its tells us that men chose to have a king and not be govern by God and since He has given men free will - it was done ...

[The Emperor]

just saw this movie yesterday. i couldn't stop the tears from coming out of my eyes. a lot of people in the audience where crying too. it was just too sad. i felt so guilty watching jesus goin through all that pain and suffering. i mean i watched a lot of the classic bible movies, but this one...man i applaud mel and the actor who played jesus for doing such a great job on depicting jesus's last hours. i encourage EVERYONE to go see it.

[drwn kix]

[
Interesting stuff is evolving here, and I would have been able to say 5 days ago that without a doubt, this topic was going to turn political. AND THIS IS MY ONE AND ONLY TRUE COMPLAINT ABOUT "CONVENTIONAL" RELIGION!!! It always ends up being political, and in the end becomes a means of justification for actions taken, "wrong" or "right". ALWAYS. Remember the Spanish conquest of the Americas? It should be blatantly obvious now, what with our current state of post 9-11 paranoia! Religion should never be used to back any political agenda. I don't consider myself to be a repulblican or a democrat, I am very conservative though. I don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't do...I should know better, but I realize that there are millions of people in this country that don't "know better", hence some of the rediculous laws that we have. I also don't believe in the "lesser of the two evils" theory either. Remember that song that goes "If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one your'e with" (excuse my ignorance I don't know who sings it)...PURE CRAP. Why do things half assed? Why vote for someone because the other guy is worse? Getting a little off topic here, sorry, but I think it helps make my point. God isn't a democrat or a republican....he is God, and should not be attached in any way shape or form to ANY form of political ideology. The very worst examples in history of what evil humans are capable of happen when God (whatever name you choose to give him) is attached to a political belief or action. 9-11 and subsequent/previous iterrations of radical Islamic "terrorism", The Balkans, Northern Ireland, The American Conquest, Salem etc...Sorry, I was totally agreeing with all your points before that one drwn kix. But hey, we're all rational here and I like the debate, positives come out of it for sure! :D[/quote]
Sounds to me like you do agree with me. My last post was to refute the suggestion that we should be converting to a Christian country. I am a fiscal conservative who doesn't believe in deficit spending except when there is a clearly defined short term goal and a clearcut strategy to retire the debt as soon as possible. I don't want any laws written which screw up the free market except those obviously necessary ones which prevent collusion, price fixing and destroying the environment.
Tariffs and there aftermath have dramatically screwed up the steel market. The press is way under reporting the consequences of this. Items I bought for $30 last year I am paying $130 for today if I can get them at all.
I don't think you should ticket someone for speeding unless they do something dangerous, like cutting someone off, tailgating or going into the incoming lane. Basically I don't want any laws governing my behaviour except to prevent me from damaging someone else. Don't try to impose your religous ideology on me, I have one of my own.
I do believe that when any leader purposefully lies to his constituants about very meaningful issues it should never be allowed to stand.
I would plead with everyone to pay attention and ask your self if the crap you are hearing makes sense. Then vote your conscience. "Democracy is not a spectator sport" is what my tee shirt says.

[gt40]

Someone sent this spoof to me:


Steve Martin
Studio Script Notes on "The Passion"

Dear Mel:

We love, LOVE the script! The ending works great. You'll be getting a call from us to start negotiations for the book rights.

Love the Jesus character. So likable. He can't seem to catch a break! We identify with him because of it. One thing, I think we need to clearly state "the rules." Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself? The creative people suggest that you could simply cut away to two spectators: Spectator one 'Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself?' Spectator two 'He can only use his powers to help others, never himself.'

Does it matter which garden? Gethsemane is hard to say and Eden is a much more recognizable garden. Just thinking out loud.

Our creative people suggest a clock visual fading in and out in certain scenes like the last supper bit: Monday, 12:43pm." or later, "Good Friday, 5:14pm."

Love the repetition of "is it I?" Could be very funny. On the eighth inquiry, could Jesus just give a little look into camera? Breaks frame, but could be a riot. Also could he change water into wine in last supper scene? Would be a great moment, and it's legit. History compression is a movie tradition and could really brighten up the scene.

Love the flaying.

Could the Rabbis be Hispanic? There's lots of hot Latino actors now, could give us a little zing at the box office. Research says there's some justification for it. Is there somewhere where Jesus could be using an IMac? You know, now that I hear myself say it, it sounds ridiculous. Strike that. But think about it. Maybe we start a shot in heaven with Jesus thoughtfully closing the top? (Reminder: heaven is timeless).

The studio is very high on Johnny Depp right now. Just saw him in "Pirates." He was hilarious. Might be right for Jesus? Not so straightforward. He could bring a lot of pizzazz to the role. I think a meeting would be warranted. Love the idea of Monica Belluci as Mary Magdalene (Yow!). Our creative people suggest a name change to Heather. Could skew our audience a little younger. Love Judas. Such a great villain. Our creative people suggest that he's a little "conflicted." Couldn't he be one thing? Just bad? Gives the movie much more of a motor. Also, 30 pieces of silver is not going to get anyone excited. I think it's very simple to make him a "new millionaire." Bring in the cash on a tray. Great dilemma that the audience can identify with.

Minor spelling error: on page 18, in the description of the bystanders, there should be a space between the words "Jew" and "boy."

Merchandising issue: it seems the cross image has been done to death and we can't own it. Could the crucifixion scene involve something else? A Toyota would be wrong, but maybe there's a shape we can copyright, like an ellipse?

I'm assuming "the dialogue is in Aremeic," is a typo for "American." If not call me on my cell or I'm at home all weekend. By the way, I'm sending a group of staffers on a cruise to the North Pole, coincidentally around the time of the release date. Would love to invite your dad!

[EVOandWRXlover]

does anyone understand some of the scenes in the movie, like the visage of satan holding that baby?

[marc]

GT40

Thanks for the turn on to the Steve Martin studio notes. Exteremely clever he is! It is actually a provocative piece, much like my tongue in cheek comment in this thread last week that generated so many inputs. The point being, art is the ability to portray the state of our society in any medium. Provocative statements are an agent for that. I learned a lot about the state of our society by sampling the comments in this thread. My observation's: Dogma prevails on a widespread basis. BTW, what anyone's take on the trend towards enhanced censorship of media. Gotta love that crazy FCC! Pass on your thoughts while you still have the freedom to do so.

[marc]

the

[JanSolo]

Speaking of religion, has anyone seen this site?

http://godhatesshrimp.com/

[EVOandWRXlover]

does anyone understand some of the scenes in the movie, like the visage of satan holding that baby?

good answer to my question!

[GokuSSJ4]

Speaking of religion, has anyone seen this site?

http://godhatesshrimp.com/
but now we have a new covenent (sp :?) that to me is a bit of xtreme ....

[Coolguy949]

does anyone understand some of the scenes in the movie, like the visage of satan holding that baby?

likely an image of the anti-christ...

[rizalhoo]

yup, maybe to me more like saying "hey Devil got a child and we'll call him anti-christ"

[mr. evo]

Hey guys... if you look into that god hates shrimp website, it actualy looks like a joke. There is a section on that sight called sign maker were you can make the church sign say whatever you want it to say... but if it is a real sight well then - wow... that is not just a bit extreem its holding onto something that was nailed to the cross. I actualy was dieing laughing with my roomates when I saw that sight.

[JanSolo]

Yes it is a joke. Just thought I would share it. If you look near the bottom of the page, you will see this text:

"This site is a work of parody, done by Ryland Sanders and Joe Decker. Yes, the protestor's sign is photoshopped. The original photo is here (http://www.polychromatic.com/par/fuckers.jpg)."

[drwn kix]

1. Selling ones daughter into slavery is sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
2. Contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual is unclean - Lev.15: 19-24.
3. It is alright to possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are
purchased from neighboring nations. Lev. 25:44. (How do Canadians feel about this one?)
4. One should be put to death for working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. 5. Eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10.
6. Do you cut your hair even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.
7. We should get the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16.

MANY OF THESE SEEM FUNNY, AND THERE ARE MANY OTHERS INCLUDING BANS ON GAYS AND PORK. MY ONLY POINT IS THAT WE MUST ALL MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT TO BELIEVE EVEN IF WE CHOOSE TO BE CHRISTIANS. CHRISTIANITY IS POSSIBLE IF WE SIMPLY PUT THE BIBLE INTO CULTURAL CONTEXT OF WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN AND BELIEVE THE CORE CONCEPTS. WHAT WE CAN'T DO RATIONALLY IS PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH OF THESE BANS ARE TO BE LITERAL AND WHICH ARE TO BE IGNORED.

[mr. evo]

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 3:19-20... never mind, just read all of Romans! It will explain a lot.

It also goes on to say how a person can become righteous and live that way... so if you are inerested how read those passages.

Yes drwn kix the OLD law was kind of funny at parts and completely unobtainable - that is why Christ died on the cross, like we saw in the movie. This is why this movie has so much power... It shows what kind of weight Jesus realy had to carry. He litteraly was holding the weight of the wold on his sholders when he went to the cross. See the great part about this part of Jesus' life is that he died for you and me by his own free will... he was not forced. I mean come on, we are talking about a man who shouted into a tomb to a yong man, who was dead, and said "Lazarus come out" (John 11:1-44) and he did! So if you think he was forced in any way, you might want to re-think that one.

[marc]

Old Law, New law? You mean she didn't get it right the first time? Maybe it was just the transcribers who got it wrong...Actually I heard it's all got screwed up and they are coming out with a newer and improved Testament 3.0. They say they got all the bugs fixed now.(The "new testament" was actually intended just to be a patch!) Apparently, now, it is ok to covet your neighbors property if it is a car that is faster than your own. The beta version i saw also says it is actually ok to get a "C" in following the 93 "Suggestions" (70% or better grade average). The focus group didn't like the term "Commandments", thought it was too disenfranchising and skewed toward white male property owners who could afford good lawyers. Supposedly 3.0 is being released at Barnes and Noble next week. Supposed to be a suprise guest at the booksigning...wonder who, hmmm...?

[JanSolo]

Supposed to be a suprise guest at the booksigning...wonder who, hmmm...?

Salman Rushdie??

[marc]

Supposed to be a suprise guest at the booksigning...wonder who, hmmm...?

Salman Rushdie??

Thank "god" someone here has a sense of humor

[JanSolo]

Supposed to be a suprise guest at the booksigning...wonder who, hmmm...?

Salman Rushdie??

Thank "god" someone here has a sense of humor

I try! Here's looking at you!

http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/art/j2k3-15.jpg

[Ricardon]

YEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! I was waiting for someone to pull out the BUDDY CHRIST!!! I soooooo wanted to do it, but I thought I'd wait to see how long it would take for someone else to put it up. And, of course, it was JanSolo. YOU ROCK, and so does the Buddy Christ!!!

[JanSolo]

At this rate, I should be offending half of the Evo owners in SoCal in no time.

[gt40]

originally posted by jansolo:
At this rate, I should be offending half of the Evo owners in SoCal in no time

I'll call steve and you two can do "lunch":

Steve Martin
Studio Script Notes on "The Passion"

Dear Mel:

We love, LOVE the script! The ending works great. You'll be getting a call from us to start negotiations for the book rights.

Love the Jesus character. So likable. He can't seem to catch a break! We identify with him because of it. One thing, I think we need to clearly state "the rules." Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself? The creative people suggest that you could simply cut away to two spectators: Spectator one 'Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself?' Spectator two 'He can only use his powers to help others, never himself.'

Does it matter which garden? Gethsemane is hard to say and Eden is a much more recognizable garden. Just thinking out loud.

Our creative people suggest a clock visual fading in and out in certain scenes like the last supper bit: Monday, 12:43pm." or later, "Good Friday, 5:14pm."

Love the repetition of "is it I?" Could be very funny. On the eighth inquiry, could Jesus just give a little look into camera? Breaks frame, but could be a riot. Also could he change water into wine in last supper scene? Would be a great moment, and it's legit. History compression is a movie tradition and could really brighten up the scene.

Love the flaying.

Could the Rabbis be Hispanic? There's lots of hot Latino actors now, could give us a little zing at the box office. Research says there's some justification for it. Is there somewhere where Jesus could be using an IMac? You know, now that I hear myself say it, it sounds ridiculous. Strike that. But think about it. Maybe we start a shot in heaven with Jesus thoughtfully closing the top? (Reminder: heaven is timeless).

The studio is very high on Johnny Depp right now. Just saw him in "Pirates." He was hilarious. Might be right for Jesus? Not so straightforward. He could bring a lot of pizzazz to the role. I think a meeting would be warranted. Love the idea of Monica Belluci as Mary Magdalene (Yow!). Our creative people suggest a name change to Heather. Could skew our audience a little younger. Love Judas. Such a great villain. Our creative people suggest that he's a little "conflicted." Couldn't he be one thing? Just bad? Gives the movie much more of a motor. Also, 30 pieces of silver is not going to get anyone excited. I think it's very simple to make him a "new millionaire." Bring in the cash on a tray. Great dilemma that the audience can identify with.

Minor spelling error: on page 18, in the description of the bystanders, there should be a space between the words "Jew" and "boy."

Merchandising issue: it seems the cross image has been done to death and we can't own it. Could the crucifixion scene involve something else? A Toyota would be wrong, but maybe there's a shape we can copyright, like an ellipse?

I'm assuming "the dialogue is in Aremeic," is a typo for "American." If not call me on my cell or I'm at home all weekend. By the way, I'm sending a group of staffers on a cruise to the North Pole, coincidentally around the time of the release date. Would love to invite your dad!

On a serious note, we need to all be wary of fanatism in all of its forms. Otherwise things like the Inquisition, al-qaida, or the bombings in spain all come to mind...

[drwn kix]

"On a serious note, we need to all be wary of fanatism in all of its forms. Otherwise things like the Inquisition, al-qaida, or the bombings in spain all come to mind..."
Truer words were never spoken. People of many beliefs must be left with a place to stand. If you push me to edge of the cliff I will fight you to the death for survival when all I really wanted to do was drive my EVO.

[xxfairenoughxx]

I thought the movie was boring and I personally don't believe anything. It's really hard for me to believe in a Western religion because there are so many holes. The Bible was written by man and whether or not you believe or can prove it was divinely inspired is irrelevant because regardless it was subject to a humans brain. It would be changed when the message got to his brain and interpreted there. We only have five senses and an omnipotent creator would have a lot more than that whats to say we could intrepret his message with our feeble minds. The idea of a omnipotent creator is a contradiction anyway because if he was all-powerful could he create a rock so big that he couldn't lift it? If he can't create that rock he's not all powerful because he couldn't create something and if he can then he's not all powerful because he couldn't move something. But the scientific view has argrubably just as many holes. It's tough for find a decision but I'm happy that you guys found religion and that it "fills your cup" because I still haven't found anything that fills mine. I thought the make-up was really good though. Someone with a similar ideaology to mine probably will feel the same as I did because I went with a buddy of mine who did and he did. Anyways I don't want you to "show me the light" or tell me how wrong I am I refuse to believe and to "know" that i'm right or believe you're right because knowing is the block against learning. Have a nice day...

[marc]

Holy Anti-Dogma Batman!

Does God love Blasphemers? Wrap your minds around that!

[mr. evo]

*THIS IS NOT A FLAME*

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and devine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20

I love the rock theory though. It is poobably one of the better excuses i have heard. It is impossible to understand God and his infinant power and glory, why would we question his ability to make something. Can you make ANYTHING out of nothing? No... then why do you question something so simple? He made the heavens and the earth, and everything in between. The question is not can he make a stupid rock that is too big, why would he, exept to squash stupid excuses!

[JanSolo]

And for all the power that god has, he still uses violence as a solution. You would think with all his knowledge, powers, etc., he would be more creative. I mean, I've met middle managers who've been stuck in a rut for years that use something more complex than negative reinforcement to get their point across.

Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. "

If the christian god and satan were both in marketing at a company, the christian god would have been fired a long time ago.

[xxfairenoughxx]

I was not flaming religious followers in the slightest merely saying that I think I found a position that is more reasonable, but for me and for me alone. I think it's awesome that that works for you. Seriously I mean that without the slightest bit of sarcasm. Anyway here's another one that made my mind tingle. Since while we live life we encounter countless experiences, each of which we learn a lesson from; some being more valuable than others. So from this we can deduce that part of life is about learning and that learning is a part of life. The idea then of something that is all knowing would then not represent life but death by disjuntive sylagysm. I'm majoring in philosophy so it's fun to argue. Once again my disclaimer I only attack ideas to encourage thinking.

[Coolguy949]

That's taken out of context. The sword refers to the word of God. The bible is called "The Sword of the Spirit" Not a sword to war against mankind, but the powers of evil. At the time Jesus was on earth, people thought he was there to free them from the bondage of Rome. His purpose was not to save them from Rome but to bring the message of God to ear th and save man from the bondage of sin.

[Ep 6:17] "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

[mr. evo]

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give an account. Hebrews 4:12-13

When the word of God comes in contact with you, you have no choise but to make choises. You will be forced to make decisions about what you believe. You either believe that Jesus Christ was who he said he was (the son of God) or you don't. You are either for God or against him. Why? I would love to be able to pick out of the Bible what was right (in my book) and wrong. But thats not how it is. Jesus drew a line and that is were the devision comes from. Those who believe and are saved and those who are not... yet.

[xxfairenoughxx]

That's a big problem I've always had with Western based religions. They try to scare you into belief. That really bothers me. It's an appeal to fear fallacy. I also don't like the fact that they say you either believe in god and are saved or you don't. This is an appeal to ignorance since no one can tell you whether or not they were actually saved after they died because they were dead and cannot obviously prove this claim. Although many will say that it works I merely ask for proof. Also how can you prove that the bible is really the word of god? I'm not trying to make anyone angry but I love a good argument. If you want me to stop I totally will and if you want to attack what i say please do....It's the only way for me to learn something.

[GokuSSJ4]

how about starting also on what do you believe ??
that way at least on my part i can understand were your coming from ???

[JanSolo]

That's taken out of context. The sword refers to the word of God. The bible is called "The Sword of the Spirit" Not a sword to war against mankind, but the powers of evil. At the time Jesus was on earth, people thought he was there to free them from the bondage of Rome. His purpose was not to save them from Rome but to bring the message of God to ear th and save man from the bondage of sin.

[Ep 6:17] "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

What isn't taken out of context when it comes to the bible? Since it is subject to endless interpretation, people can either takes scriptures literally or attempt to interpret them as they deem fit.

If this were not the case, there would not be so many versions of Christianity.

[JWest]

"That's a big problem I've always had with Western based religions. They try to scare you into belief. That really bothers me. It's an appeal to fear fallacy. I also don't like the fact that they say you either believe in god and are saved or you don't. This is an appeal to ignorance since no one can tell you whether or not they were actually saved after they died because they were dead and cannot obviously prove this claim. Although many will say that it works I merely ask for proof. Also how can you prove that the bible is really the word of god? I'm not trying to make anyone angry but I love a good argument. If you want me to stop I totally will and if you want to attack what i say please do....It's the only way for me to learn something."

Seems you need to do more research, both in this thread and about the topics you are questioning.

The proof for Christianity comes from both prophecy and changes to individual lives.

So, tell us how evolution (or any other theory) explains your life, with proofs. Also explain how that makes you happier than accepting that the God that made you loves you and wants you to come into a closer relationship with him?

JW

[xxfairenoughxx]

Finally...Someone. Anyway my answer to that question is I don't have an answer. There is no one answer to that question in my opinion. For us to try and understand the universe is for us to try and place something into a box and say that it fits when the contents of the box are constantly changing. I choose to not put it (beliefs) into that box (religion/evolution whatever). Also you've done nothing to dispose of my two previous arguments refuting religion. And you've proof is based off of subjective experience and not from objective facts. That is why I am not religious.

[marc]

"That's a big problem I've always had with Western based religions. They try to scare you into belief. That really bothers me. It's an appeal to fear fallacy. I also don't like the fact that they say you either believe in god and are saved or you don't. This is an appeal to ignorance since no one can tell you whether or not they were actually saved after they died because they were dead and cannot obviously prove this claim. Although many will say that it works I merely ask for proof. Also how can you prove that the bible is really the word of god? I'm not trying to make anyone angry but I love a good argument. If you want me to stop I totally will and if you want to attack what i say please do....It's the only way for me to learn something."

Seems you need to do more research, both in this thread and about the topics you are questioning.

The proof for Christianity comes from both prophecy and changes to individual lives.

So, tell us how evolution (or any other theory) explains your life, with proofs. Also explain how that makes you happier than accepting that the God that made you loves you and wants you to come into a closer relationship with him?

JW


How is it that "God Loving you"... and "evolution" are mutually exclusive? Seems a little narrow-minded? What kind of argument establishes "proof" from prophecy and changes to individual lives? Do you NEED proof in order to have faith? Isn't it really just a choice to believe something without proof on the hopes that you might be right? I chose, for a while, to believe in a powerful, invisible being that fulfilled my prayers. However, later in life I was pretty convinced that Santa Claus wasn't real.Nevertheless, I did enjoy believing in him! Come to think of it Santa also used fear to get me to believe in him ("he knows if you've been naughty......so you better be good for goodness sake!) Not much different than Faith based religion, huh?

[Coolguy949]

Alright, take it down a notch everyone. This is merely an educated discussion but it can quickly become very one-sided when i push the "lock" button.

[mr. evo]

Wow... we are getting way off topic now... anyway, hope everyone who saw the movie thought about what it means to you and why Jesus died. Any questions about the reasons behind why Jesus had to die, and or why some of us have such a strong faith in him, you can pm myself. I will also put this out on the table... If anyone would like to go to bible study at Long Beach State on wednesday nights at 7:30, you are more than welcome to come and see for youself what it is about. Pm me for directions and more info.

[Hallster]

OK, here are a few examples. My opinion is that God is calling out other gods (read, other religions). Your opinion may differ, but this is what's written.

Jer 2:28 But where [are] thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for [according to] the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.

Deu 32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ki/1Ki018.html#24

2Ki 19:17 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria have destroyed the nations and their lands,
2Ki 19:18 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they [were] no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them
Isa 37:36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses.

Psa 96:4 For the LORD [is] great, and greatly to be praised: he [is] to be feared above all gods.
Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, [even] they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Jer 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are] no gods?
Jer 16:21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name [is] The LORD.

Exd 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I [am] the LORD.

You can find a few more here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/g/1078513190-7718.html

Please understand I've posted this not to make anyone unhappy or to gain anything for myself. But, just to give an honest answer, to an important question.

Joshua West

Sorry if this has already been answered, just getting caught up on this thread...

The references in the above verses are rhetorical questions.

The "gods" referred to in the last verse are the material gods - shrines, statues, etc. Again, false, or not real.

Sean

[Hallster]

since is you dont have very much options , dont get me wrong both parties have pros and cons , and it doesnt make one better then the other one . But as a believer you look to which party offers you the best to your believe , and most of the times are the republican since they attend to be conservative .
You are right God should never be put in the category of republican or democratic , and that was choose by men and not by God . Since in the book of Samuel its tells us that men chose to have a king and not be govern by God and since He has given men free will - it was done ...

...after the rapture, the democrats will be left to run the country.... just kidding!!!
:wink:
Sean

[Hallster]

does anyone understand some of the scenes in the movie, like the visage of satan holding that baby?

My read on this: Satan was temping Jesus to join him, thus Satan would care for him.

Or...

Satan is asking Jesus, where is your father now when you are going through these beatings?


Sean

[Hallster]

At this rate, I should be offending half of the Evo owners in SoCal in no time.

Fact of the matter is, no one has Jesus' looks right... so buddy christ doesn't offend me anymore then other statues of christ.

A verse in the book of Isaiah essentially says Jesus was not a good looking guy. .. none of the Jesus' statues i've seen so far come close to his written description in Isaiah.

Sean

[Hallster]

That's taken out of context. The sword refers to the word of God. The bible is called "The Sword of the Spirit" Not a sword to war against mankind, but the powers of evil. At the time Jesus was on earth, people thought he was there to free them from the bondage of Rome. His purpose was not to save them from Rome but to bring the message of God to ear th and save man from the bondage of sin.

[Ep 6:17] "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

What isn't taken out of context when it comes to the bible? Since it is subject to endless interpretation, people can either takes scriptures literally or attempt to interpret them as they deem fit.

If this were not the case, there would not be so many versions of Christianity.

What are you talking about? Its hard to address this because its so general. Kinda like saying: i knew a girl once. she sucked. all girls suck. There's sooo many different stories in the bible, this is a an over generalization.

Some scriptures are generally agreed to as having different interpretations, others not. So bring up the scritpure you have a question about and I can try to exlain any discrepancies you see.

On the other hand, I've seen this argument used by people who know they need to be following God, but they choose not to. So they just turn their backs on Him. Oh, they also, like I used to beleive, believe that following God would be a greater burden then not.

But thats one of the awesome things about God, is he gives you the choice to do what you want...

In the end the bible says every knee will bend, and head will bow when Jesus returns ...and every person will give account for their actions

Sean

[mr. evo]

Amen!