WHAT IS BETTER, ELECTRIC OR MECHANICAL BOOST GAUGES

[BOVBILLY]

OR ANY GAUGES. I AM CONFUSED. PLEASE HELP THE FAT GUY, ME, OUT!

[evod]

electrical guages tend to have a faster response(picking up variances in boost levels) than do mechanical ones as the boost pressure doesn't have to travel into the cabin area and then into the guage...but into a sender with a minimal amount of vacuum hose. of course...electrical guages are more prone to electrical inteference or faulty wiring(both i hear very little about)

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

hey guys...are boost controllers able to hold one reading of psi all the way through the tach??? like can i hold 19 psi all the way to redline with a mbc without the boost tapering off to about 16 psi??? help

[Blak94GSX]

Yeah if it is installed correctly. What you want is a "ball/spring" type MBC, as those are generally more stable and easy to install. Basically two types of boost controllers, bleeder type and ball/spring. The stock BCS is a bleeder type, which the ECU controls how much is bled off to control the wastegate.

Be careful though since a surprising amount of electronic boost controllers are inconsistent in different weather and different pressures. Unfortunately there are very few EBCs that allow you just set the boost and have it be stable, then change the boost a bit and have it still be stable. A lot of the units with displays on them require a bunch of screwing around with duty cycles and gains to get the boost stable, then you change the boost pressure you want and have to fiddle with the duty cycle and gain again.

The Greddy Profec B (old style with no display) and the HKS EVC EZ are the easiest most consistent of the EBCs. For MBCs I like the www.dejontool.com unit since it is cheap, high quality, and works. Also, the Hallman and Pauleyman MBCs are good.

[Blak94GSX]

As for gauges, like was mentioned, electronic is better for gauges that involve fluids since you don't have to run hoses and crap into the cockpit. Some electronic gauges also have peak/hold and user settable warning limits.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

mbc can hold a stable 19 psi too right??

[Blak94GSX]

Sure, 12-40PSI

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

thanx bro

[moogle]

GAH! A flash should do fine I think. I got a "sorry bevo" dynoflash and mine pulls all the way to redline.

[NRG]

Man Moogle, don't worry about him (I got the Dynoflash too and street tuned), we'll take him out like a ant on the ground..........P2 flashes can't touch us..... :D

[leaveit2bevo]

HAHAHAHA ya you guys rock ur homoflushes and Ill stick with the p2. moogle told me he talks shit about every person he flashes, wtf is up with that.

[moogle]

BEVO u took it the wrong way. I told u he talks alot of shiT "his east coast attitude.

Look @ evolutionm U think if their westcoast they would act like that???

[moogle]

BEVO, Once I got my xhst,dp, install and a re-reflash u want to race??? We'll see which flash is fastah. "mine still stock remember."

I care about the product not the person.

[leaveit2bevo]

whatever either way he is a fruit.

[moogle]

HEHEHE everyone is entitled of an opinion. NRG were u there??? I didn't see U?

[leaveit2bevo]

HEHEHE everyone is entitled of an opinion. NRG were u there??? I didn't see U?

Im not stating opinion :wink:

[GokuSSJ4]

BEVO, Once I got my xhst,dp, install and a re-reflash u want to race??? We'll see which flash is fastah. "mine still stock remember."

I care about the product not the person.

remember in order to compare flashes to see who tunes a lot better , you also need to run the same amount of boost . With the P2 you run stock 19psi some 19.5psi (depending on the motor ) and hold that till red line . With your Flash he increases till 21psi (in some applications) requiring the EBC he recommends .... so of coarse you should make more hp since you are runing more psi . Unless you are runing same set up , and the cars are dyno or both products are tested on the same car , thats the only way you can see who makes more hp through the entire power band . Remember even went you race on the track or 1/4 mile is not about peak #'s . Is also about the entire power line and TQ #'s the car produces ...

[gt40]

YEP, we got termites err flashmites! Peace everyone... the guys with dyno_____(sorry, still can't bring myself to say the word. I am glad however that everyone is apparently still satisfied) are really happy and the guys with the P2 are happy so let's do this right and settle out at streets next month :twisted:

[moogle]

YEP, we got termites err flashmites! Peace everyone... the guys with dyno_____(sorry, still can't bring myself to say the word. I am glad however that everyone is apparently still satisfied) are really happy and the guys with the P2 are happy so let's do this right and settle out at streets next month :twisted:

I like the sound of that.

Bevos mods are dp,xhst, if I am correct and works flash.

Same thing with mine dp, xhst, and dynoflash.

I would get works flash but $500 dollars for it is a bit steep. $175 is cheaper, and if both perform and satisfy I don't see why not going for the cheaper price. Like I said b4 I am bang for the buck person I am not whoring out dynoflash I am just saying for the price of his product its pretty dam good!

[GokuSSJ4]

so you didnt obtain the road tune but the in mail Flash ...
it should be interesting , this between you and Bevo ....lol

[leaveit2bevo]

Im going to have fun with you on the track, I have the muller tuned stock suspension, aps cai, and running track pads so its going to be a even comparison.

[moogle]

I've got nothing compare to what bevo has, but its going to be fun! Stock everything! Xcpt for this:

All I have is dp, xhst, JUST a reflash "dynoflash," and alot of crazy!

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

hey whats the difference between a p2 and a dynoflash??

[ItsStockOfficer]

hey whats the difference between a p2 and a dynoflash??

Honestly, its hard to say, but Im going to say mostly the P2 costs alot more. Tuning is tuning and Al does not seem bad at it at all.

[ReHeat]

hey whats the difference between a p2 and a dynoflash??

Honestly, its hard to say, but Im going to say mostly the P2 costs alot more.

don't mislead other people if you don't know the answer for sure :roll:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66014&perpage=15&pagenumber=6



Originally posted by DavidV@WORKS
I’m no longer with WORKS, but still browse from time to time. I would like to add my thoughts.

For those of you who under the impression that the flash technology is identical, read on:

First, let's clear up some misconceptions.

(1) The majority of this board knows a good dyno plot when they see one.

This is a misconception. Reading a dyno plot is a learned skill, like learning to read in another language. I had to learn it and those of you who do not already understand how to extrapolate what a car will feel like based on the shape of a curve will need to learn it too. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: look past the peak HP number. Look at the area under the curve. Look closer at the torque curve than HP. Look at the boost curve (of all the hundreds of dyno plots that you have seen posted here on this board, how many have shown this?). Look at the correction and/or smoothing factor if any. Do not fixate on a peak HP number and a dramatic peak. This isn't a finance curve from your office. Don't try to read it like one.

(2) Richer is safer.

This is a gross oversimplification. Overly rich is arguably safer than overly lean, but both are dangerous and undesirable. Running a super rich air fuel ratio is not healthy and will harm your motor. It is also an indication that your tuner does not know what he/she is doing with boost and/or timing. Healthy combustion requires the right ratio of air to fuel being ignited at the right time for optimum burn. You may not realize this, but fuel is an anti-detonant. If you see a very rich mixture (fuel dumping) it is the hallmark of a tuner trying to cope with inappropriate timing and or boost mapping. Don’t think rich is dangerous? Too rich and carbon will begin to build up in the cylinder head causing pre-ignition, sparkplugs will begin fouling and misfiring, your catalytic converter will clog up, and the long term health of your engine will be compromised. Matter of fact, if you go too rich, you can cause fuel preignition, which goes hand in hand with detonation, which triggers the knock sensor, which the ECU sees, and then the ECU retards the timing, and the EGTs go up. And so begins the vicious cycle to medium and long term engine damage. It won't be the sudden and catastrophic failure one might see with a sudden lean condition, but will do great harm in the long run.

Bottom line. You want efficient combustion, not overly rich and not overly lean.

(3) They all deal with timing the same way

As important as AF/R the timing of when the mixture is lit off makes a huge difference in the optimization of the combustion cycle. If you are not sure whether your tuner relies on the factory knock sensor to either pull timing back based on knock, or prevents timing from being pulled where knock might otherwise exist, learn to understand how and why this matters before choosing which flash to buy or assuming that they are all identical.

(4) Higher peaks boost is better.

Not if it involves pulling timing, tapering off boost, or running overly rich. The true test is the tuner's ability to hit the desire boost level and maintain it.

This leads me to one area in which I can illustrate how different these products all are.

XFlash pulls a restrictor pill from the factory line.

Dynoflash sends a false 10 minute delay signal to the ECU.

WORKS P2 replaces the factory boost tube with a new boost tube (note, the number of pills remains the same) and the functionality is like stock.

Believe it or not, those Mitsubishi engineers are a clever bunch and neither Pete (WORKS), nor Shiv (XFlash), nor Al (Dynoflash/Buschurflash/Etc), is smart enough to single-handedly second guess them.

People need to take the time to understand what it is they are buying, and how it works. Is the $199 product the same as the $599 product because they both use flash technology? Are they the same if they hit similar peak HP numbers?

As Shiv correctly pointed out, take the same car and put each of the three products on it and you will get dramatic enough results that you could tell instantly that the tune is not the same – even if the peak HP numbers are very close.

However, whatever flash approach you end up choosing, at least take the time to become an educated consumer. You don’t need to understand all the hyper technical babble that the tuners know, but at least understand the fundamentals of how the products differ in what they do and why. Learn to read a dyno plot. Learn to look at and evaluate boost plots. Learn to interpret AFRs. etc. Bottom line, if you have a $30k+ car, and are making a choice on how the ECU is tuned based on an assumption that each product is the same except for a few hundred bucks here or there in price, then best of luck to you. Some products (intakes, exhausts, ground wire kits, etc.) are more alike than they are different – ECU tuning isn’t one of them.

-- DavidV :D

[leaveit2bevo]

good post Jimmy ;)

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

when would a good time be to flash ur ECU?? after what particular mods...cuz right now ive got an hks 3" carbon-Ti cat back, hks 3" dp, hks intake,hks tt, aem cam gears, tein s-techs, hks bov, and 272 cams in 2 days...should i get a dynoflash??

[leaveit2bevo]

well you have more mods then I do so ya its time to get tuning wait until you get the cams though. Did you read reheats post? FORGET HOMOFLUSH!!!!

[GokuSSJ4]

get all of your mods first , especially if you are thinking fo running cams (which you can run on stock ecu ) till you decide what way you go and with which flash you decided to choose ...
Then all you need is to flash the car onces , till you decide to upgrade turbo kit or other things ...

[ItsStockOfficer]

...ok, what am I supposed to be educated about? You think I don't know all that? I am tapping on 11's almost on 91 octane, I know how to tune a car...no one else has ever come near mine with a 10 ft pole...

Al's tunes, from what I have seen, have made broad power bands....and I like his method of boost control, so what makes what I said wrong again?

[leaveit2bevo]

um al is a homo nuff said, no one said he couldnt tune.

[ReHeat]

...ok, what am I supposed to be educated about? You think I don't know all that? I am tapping on 11's almost on 91 octane, I know how to tune a car...no one else has ever come near mine with a 10 ft pole...

Al's tunes, from what I have seen, have made broad power bands....and I like his method of boost control, so what makes what I said wrong again?

You said the difference between the P2 and the Dynoflash is the price, that misleading. Read David's post.

[ItsStockOfficer]

...ok, what am I supposed to be educated about? You think I don't know all that? I am tapping on 11's almost on 91 octane, I know how to tune a car...no one else has ever come near mine with a 10 ft pole...

Al's tunes, from what I have seen, have made broad power bands....and I like his method of boost control, so what makes what I said wrong again?

You said the difference between the P2 and the Dynoflash is the price, that misleading. Read David's post.

He never clarified a difference between the 2, merely said one could in theory exist. Which is true as far as it goes, but it can only go so far...fuel tuning and ignition timing are the only two real tuning factors and there is only so many possibilities in what you can do w/ them. Discounting boost, which is basically a given.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

well you have more mods then I do so ya its time to get tuning wait until you get the cams though. Did you read reheats post? FORGET HOMOFLUSH!!!!

yes i did as a matter of fact...and it was very informative...ok koo...i changed my mind about the cams...im goin with the 264s cuz im looking for more bottom end torque out of the corners...you know more street power...so after i get them installed im goin to get it reflashed...any suggestions where i should go??? cost-efficient as well as good work???

[leaveit2bevo]

I know RRE does excellant work, Im not sure but I think they charge 150 a stick. I know srt does them to but not sure for how much.

[GokuSSJ4]

you can go to SRT and they charge the same 150.00 for cams and 200.00 for cams and cam gears ...
The only problem with RRE is that their always way to busy :lol:
IMO i would also get a timing belt (might as well you are inthere) like Toda , power enterprise ..... and i believe even WORKS offers one ...

[ItsStockOfficer]

you can go to SRT and they charge the same 150.00 for cams and 200.00 for cams and cam gears ...
The only problem with RRE is that their always way to busy :lol:
IMO i would also get a timing belt (might as well you are inthere) like Toda , power enterprise ..... and i believe even WORKS offers one ...

When you do cam's your not "in there". You don't remove any pulleys, belts or the timing belt cover.

[GokuSSJ4]

what i meant .... if he decides to do cam gears as well . (sorry for not being clear ) ...

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

already got cam gears...AEMs to be exact...hey when you say 150 a stick at SRT...is that 150 bucks times two cuz theres two cams...intake and exhaust...so 300 for installation of cam shafts??

[GokuSSJ4]

its a flat rate of 150.00 for the cams ...

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

thanx goku