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prosailortim
03-03-2004, 12:17 AM
Just got my Evo back today fron XS-Engineering. Didn't get a chance to open her up yet. By the time they finished tuning the Power FC ECU it was raining/rush hour traffic.

After Koji finshed tuning it, my best run on there dyno was 295 H.P. at 21 p.s.i.

After it was all said & done (including labor /tuning) my bill was in the $5,500.00 range.

Heres a list of my mods:

3" Buschur dp.hf cat, catback... Crower 264 cams, Toda cam gears, fuel pump, 700cc injectors, Blitz boost controller, Apexi Power FC L-jetro.

I left the intake alone, just in case a officer wants me to pop the hood. The Buschur exhaust is not as loud as I thought it would have been. It has a nice growl when idiling, and sounds mean when romp on it. Pedal (gas) is very responsive now.... will have to wait till tomorrow for a performance review.

All in all.... I' had a very good experience dealing with XS-Engineering. Reggie was always there if I had a question, labor charges were alittle on the high side for some items (install of spark plugs $45.00), and very reasonable on others (Cams/Cam Gears $300.00).

I'm very satisified and would recommend their services highly, especially if you live in Orange County.

GokuSSJ4
03-03-2004, 12:46 AM
wow !!! over 5k :yikes: but then again you have several items on there .
so you are running 21psi of boost ....
what was the tq #'s
can you post your dyno chart

ItsStockOfficer
03-03-2004, 02:13 AM
I count a little over 3k in mods....sounds pretty steep...but I suppose labor for installs adds up fast.

moogle
03-03-2004, 02:22 AM
5k including all parts or just labor. If it was just labor wat a rip off imo... I rather just get street tune by Al/dynoflash.

ItsStockOfficer
03-03-2004, 02:24 AM
that had BETTER been including mods....

GokuSSJ4
03-03-2004, 02:25 AM
well this is what you have so far
power FC with commander 1300+
blitz 400+
buschur 900+
Toda cam gears 320+
injectors 480+
pump (depending which one , lets say denso also ) 250+
cams 600+
475.00 tuning
300 cam install
what else am i missing ???

prosailortim
03-03-2004, 06:26 AM
That's including parts, labor, and tuning/dyno fees. Just the Power FC with tuning & Dyno fees roughly added up to $1,570.00 (plus tax) so it wasn't cheap date. Exhaust $1,100.00 (shipping/installation), 1,200.00 for cams/cam gears (includes install)... etc... etc. So you can see it adds up real fast.

I don't go much by dyno numbers.... everyones 4w dyno seams to read different. Their are people who have 1/2 the mods that I do and have dyno sheets that say they have 330 whp..... so dyno sheets don't impress me much.

I'm taking her to work today.... I'll let you know how she feels tonite.

Cheers

GokuSSJ4
03-03-2004, 10:03 AM
yeah it seems that way , but then again you completly did everythign at once ,,, wow !!!
i guess it starts adding up , you could of had the AVO turbo kit install for that much ...............
then started from there ....hehe

moogle
03-03-2004, 11:09 AM
I guess, but men $5000 and only 300 hp what a rip off! I am trying so hard not to laugh. Well let us know if its really worth $5k.

Blak94GSX
03-03-2004, 12:15 PM
Well that mod list includes just about the most expensive version of everything you could possibly buy. Like the Blitz boost controller is about the most expensive EBC available, and the Power FC is 95% of the cost of a real standalone computer, etc.

This is not to say these parts are crappy in any way, just that he certainly didn't follow the "bang for buck" route too closely.

The way I see it, there are several ways to approach the order in which you do mods.

-Replace only what you absolutely have to when you absolutely have to do it, and with the cheapest possible replacement that works right

-Do all the expensive stuff first so you don't run out of budget half-way through

-Somewhere in-between

I guess a good shop would use parts that are the best for the application regardless of price, and a smart business would only use the most expensive part for the application regardless of value.

moogle
03-03-2004, 01:08 PM
I guess he went for the bling bling mods.

Blak94GSX
03-03-2004, 01:15 PM
Keep in mind I'm a DSMer, so spending more than 20 bucks on a boost controller is unfathomababable.

gt40
03-03-2004, 02:13 PM
I guess a good shop would use parts that are the best for the application regardless of price, and a smart business would only use the most expensive part for the application regardless of value.

Classic...

robi
03-04-2004, 12:45 AM
I like my 4,000.00 380 WHP Buschur rocket Hope I can Keep my hundred bucks come friday!

han74j
03-04-2004, 12:49 AM
how much do they charge per hour? of labor?

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 01:50 AM
I guess, but men $5000 and only 300 hp what a rip off! I am trying so hard not to laugh. Well let us know if its really worth $5k.

and to think mailbu was going to get 700whp from 5k.

GokuSSJ4
03-04-2004, 02:32 AM
lol that was the funniest ever , Robi set up sounds tempting . Especially how crazy of a ride that was...

prosailortim
03-04-2004, 07:12 AM
Actually it was $ 3,900.00 dollars in mods, the rest was for installation, dyno & tuning, and taxes. I bought the best mods, I never go cheap when it comes to certain items. I purchased all my major mods first, like I said it's much easier to do it all at once than piece-by-piece.

All of my pricing was fair, I'm sure I could have saved a few hundred dollars shopping around and waiting for parts to arrive. Only thing is, I'm a very busy and travel alot, (I'm a 44 year old professional) so time is precious.... and a couple of hundred of bucks is no big deal for me.... I spend that on a nice dinner with a couple bottles of wine.

I took my car out for a run on the 241 toal road.... The car fast. It feels like I have more than 300 WHP, like I said dyno numbers don't mean much to me, it's more of a tool for a tuner to use.

Next sept for my car ia a few months will be FMIC/piping and larger turbo. All work will be performed at XS-Engineering.... I'm very satisifed with the product they delivered.

robi
03-04-2004, 08:13 AM
I think the point here is ...It's nice when you find a shop that you sync with...regaurdless of $'s...I'm glad we can add XS to the list of good shops...

GokuSSJ4
03-04-2004, 09:47 AM
thats good to know , people expect just a bit more of hp # 's then that , that all !! but people forget how much 91 octane restricts you and that you are limited to what you can do with it ...
If you have the money to go with the best , then more props to you ....
Believe me if money would not be an option , i know what i would go with (which people normally wouldnt ) or at least see it as an over kill...

Blak94GSX
03-04-2004, 10:17 AM
Dyno numbers are irrelevant anyway. If that is the only means for comparison then there is a real problem...

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 11:51 AM
thats good to know , people expect just a bit more of hp # 's then that , that all !! but people forget how much 91 octane restricts you and that you are limited to what you can do with it ...
If you have the money to go with the best , then more props to you ....
Believe me if money would not be an option , i know what i would go with (which people normally wouldnt ) or at least see it as an over kill...

not to mention that the apex can only run one map for 91 which is possible the gayest thing ever.

tama_mog
03-04-2004, 12:45 PM
I dunno if this makes anyone feel better.....after I got my stuff installeed @ rmr (rmr downpipe, rmr catback, rmr hard pipings, rmr induction pipe, rmr intake) and I took my car to xs to get it dynoed....I make 226 whp on 91 octane....I thought somethin was wrong with my car, there had to be a leak, but I have yet to find one yet =X

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 02:14 PM
ouch most evos are making that stock, heres the thing Ive been wondering about are the 271hp and 273tq numbers for the stock evo on 94 octane? if they are obviously they are going to be lower for 91

tama_mog
03-04-2004, 02:58 PM
I think it'd be nice if we could see other dyno #'s from xs-engineering's dyno....another main factor for me is the fact that my car is not tuned in any way.....and I saw another guy saying he dynoed @ 260 some with 100 oct and a chip and similar mods as me.....so, it all seems to pan out....but the guy @ xs who does the dynoing (greg I think his name was) says he's seen stock evos dyno 230's on that dyno, I dunno what to believe =X And of course bevo you are correct, gas has a lot to do with it.

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 03:01 PM
It might be xs dyno, dyno fluxuate so much. But I have heard that some weak stock evos dyno at 180-190 so maybe you got a weak one. I think most dyno around 220-240 stock

Blak94GSX
03-04-2004, 03:33 PM
My car dynoed 462awhp on the XS Engineering dyno, and ROYZGSX dynoed 650awhp on that dyno. The trouble is that dynos are not real world and most turbo cars with air-air intercoolers will perform better on the street due to the airflow and dynamic load.

Take it to the track, tune it. See what kind of trap speeds you run. That is a much better indicator of real world power output.

Which car is faster;
11 second 600awhp car or an 11 second 350awhp car?

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 03:59 PM
Holy shit your making a grip of hp. I saw roys car when I was at RRE the tranmission was hanging by zipties.

ItsStockOfficer
03-04-2004, 05:51 PM
Which car is faster;
11 second 600awhp car or an 11 second 350awhp car?

They never made an AWD supra.

cas909
03-04-2004, 06:47 PM
congrats on the car. i think you will enjoy it very much.im still impressed with xs' work on my car. they will not let you down bro. good choice on the shop and have fun

leaveit2bevo
03-04-2004, 08:22 PM
Which car is faster;
11 second 600awhp car or an 11 second 350awhp car?

They never made an AWD supra.

I think his talking about a gsx

Coolguy949
03-04-2004, 09:34 PM
the tranmission was hanging by zipties.

Yup, that's Roy alright!!

ZENTRAEDIevo
03-05-2004, 12:11 AM
just back from the dyno at XS Engineering... we baselined the car between 232-240.. every baseline was different due to the ecu changing maps.. we finished with 274.7whp with hks exhaust, hks racing suction kit, hks fcon v pro tuning and hks evc5 boost controller at 1.5 bar.. on 91 octane at a 10.6 AF. so you know that is very very safe and conservative..

robbie
Dsport Mag

Blak94GSX
03-05-2004, 12:28 AM
Which car is faster;
11 second 600awhp car or an 11 second 350awhp car?

They never made an AWD supra.


Lol, an 11 second Supra would put down like 900whp on the dyno...

leaveit2bevo
03-05-2004, 12:31 AM
How would an 11sec supra put down 900whp? shouldent the hp number be lower than that to make 11sec?

Blak94GSX
03-05-2004, 12:33 AM
Sorry, I shouldn't be making off topic jokes... Supras are notorious for their lack of traction. The more power they make the slower they go in the 1/4 mile.

With an EVO and some basic mods, if you know how to properly launch it, you will never have to fear any Supra in a 1/4 mile street race...

Supras are vicious once they get going though, so I wouldn't recommend racing any but the most stock Supra from a 60MPH roll.

GokuSSJ4
03-05-2004, 01:03 AM
It might be xs dyno, dyno fluxuate so much. But I have heard that some weak stock evos dyno at 180-190 so maybe you got a weak one. I think most dyno around 220-240 stock

Bevo went you are seeing those cars dyno that low are you sure there not on a DD dyno whidh is the same that Shiv has ??
low evo 215whp
on a DD 180-190 not the same dyno and the reading are way low ...

prosailortim
03-05-2004, 08:22 AM
While I was at XS-Engieering they had 3 other Evo's there they were working on, one of which was the "Pepsi" Evo.

They are in the process of putting together staged packages for the Evo. For a local O.C. shop, you can't go wrong.

Coolguy949
03-05-2004, 08:50 AM
How would an 11sec supra put down 900whp? shouldent the hp number be lower than that to make 11sec?

Supras has a pretty huge traction problem is the reason.

Coolguy949
03-05-2004, 08:51 AM
I'd also like to add, XS Engineering is said to be the best place to go to take your Power FC. These are only a couple Power Excel approved dealers in So Cal.

leaveit2bevo
03-05-2004, 02:03 PM
I'd also like to add, XS Engineering is said to be the best place to go to take your Power FC. These are only a couple Power Excel approved dealers in So Cal.

the sad thing is the powerfc can only hold one map so you would be stuck with a 91 map which is probally the stupiest thing ever.

Coolguy949
03-05-2004, 02:13 PM
Same with the EMS though right?. You need your laptop right there to switch between maps. The nice thing about the PowerFC is that if you know how to adust your fuel settings, you can do it on the fly with the optional commander just like an SAFC.

leaveit2bevo
03-05-2004, 03:25 PM
no the ems can hold more than one map, the commander is like 400 isnt it? which brings the total to over what a ems costs.

Coolguy949
03-05-2004, 03:32 PM
The Power FC with the commander and everything I sell for like $1550 if i remember. How do you switch between maps on the EMS?

Blak94GSX
03-05-2004, 09:43 PM
How do you switch between maps on the EMS?

Laptop :)

Coolguy949
03-05-2004, 11:19 PM
same exact thing with the power fc

GokuSSJ4
03-05-2004, 11:32 PM
yeah but you have to tune the car all over again with the FC .

Chris in SD
03-06-2004, 08:53 AM
This is for Tama Mog:

I baselined at 222 on the XS Engineering dyno before my RMR stuff went on. Double-check to make sure that wasn't your baseline pull... Also make sure you have some sort of AFC or flash done because that induction pipe will really lean out your Evo. You might be low on power because the ECU is pulling timing big-time because you are knocking. The same thing happened to me. I had a Technosquare flash before the induction pipe went in. After the pipe, my AFRs were 14.5s or so!!! (A certain someone I won't name here) tuned my Evo out here in VA and brought them down to 11.1 and I am not pulling timing anymore.

Chris

robi
03-06-2004, 09:57 AM
And that sertain someone told me the single WORST thing you can do to your EVO is pull timing (if you want to make HP that is)

Coolguy949
03-06-2004, 10:04 AM
my AFRs were 14.5s or so!!!

Man, you're evo engine was running on borrowed time. How long did you drive it that way??



And that sertain someone told me the single WORST thing you can do to your EVO is pull timing (if you want to make HP that is)

Well, anyone that knows how to tune will tell you that. When timing is retarded it's to reduce knock, the Evo ECU does that automatically with the 91 apple juice we throw in our gas tank. That's why when you floor it it pulls hard then slows down a little as it retards your timing.

Man, i hate 91 octane. :offrant:

tama_mog
03-07-2004, 05:48 PM
Thanks Chris and others.....unfortunately, I never got my car baselined stock so I dunno if I got some super lemon of an evo or not, I'm pretty much over it right now nehow. Me and my friends have yet to run a leakdown and another test to pressureize the whole system to check for leaks....hopefully we'll find something. Theres a lot of factors, one is definitely tuning, I agree. Another is the fact that I dynoed the thing right after I installed the intake @ rmr...(as in minutes after). I'm thinkin maybe my ecu didn't have enough time to learn perhaps *shrug*. And yes, the 91 octane definitely puts a damper on the numbers.... I'm shooting for 300 whp when that certain someone tunes my car @ the beginning of april. I'm adding in fuel pump, 650 cc injectors, works cams, works valvetrain, blitz spec R bc, head studs, greddy type s, and high flow cat. Hopefully I can achieve my goal. =) If not, maybe a 50 trim turbo or gt30r is in order. =D

Chris in SD
03-07-2004, 09:17 PM
Rob, I drove cross-country VERY QUICKLY with a full car with those crazy AFRs... I am surprised it made it. I think I must have one of the best-made Evos around. No clutch problems, no tranny problems, no spun bearings, no warped rotors, etc. etc. I am counting my blessings...

leaveit2bevo
03-07-2004, 09:45 PM
Thanks Chris and others.....unfortunately, I never got my car baselined stock so I dunno if I got some super lemon of an evo or not, I'm pretty much over it right now nehow. Me and my friends have yet to run a leakdown and another test to pressureize the whole system to check for leaks....hopefully we'll find something. Theres a lot of factors, one is definitely tuning, I agree. Another is the fact that I dynoed the thing right after I installed the intake @ rmr...(as in minutes after). I'm thinkin maybe my ecu didn't have enough time to learn perhaps *shrug*. And yes, the 91 octane definitely puts a damper on the numbers.... I'm shooting for 300 whp when that certain someone tunes my car @ the beginning of april. I'm adding in fuel pump, 650 cc injectors, works cams, works valvetrain, blitz spec R bc, head studs, greddy type s, and high flow cat. Hopefully I can achieve my goal. =) If not, maybe a 50 trim turbo or gt30r is in order. =D

if you cant hit 300whp with those mods somthing is really wrong.

GokuSSJ4
03-07-2004, 10:46 PM
if you plan to boost pass 19psi i dont see the need for bigger injectors ....
unless you do it like Robi which is running 680cc but he takes the best out of them since he runs 23psi at the track with his SAFC helping out .... and c-16

valueevo
03-14-2004, 11:20 PM
What made you go with crower cams ??? :?:

GokuSSJ4
03-14-2004, 11:44 PM
i need to dyno my car at XS , maybe i should check them out and post my sheet ...

ItsStockOfficer
03-15-2004, 09:43 AM
if you plan to boost pass 19psi i dont see the need for bigger injectors ....
unless you do it like Robi which is running 680cc but he takes the best out of them since he runs 23psi at the track with his SAFC helping out .... and c-16

Boost does not determine injector size. Airflow does. A car with some mods can flow ALOT more air at a given boost level.

GokuSSJ4
03-15-2004, 09:53 AM
the reason is because tuners have seen problems with the Evo injectors went bumping the boost above stock levels , that the injectors are about max out . So they recommend going with a larger injector , I was told that on stock settings the stock injectors are more then enough and theres no need to upgrade them. Believe me i wanted to go with 720cc but the car was going to run to rich at idle ..

Coolguy949
03-15-2004, 10:26 AM
if you plan to boost pass 19psi i dont see the need for bigger injectors ....
unless you do it like Robi which is running 680cc but he takes the best out of them since he runs 23psi at the track with his SAFC helping out .... and c-16

Boost does not determine injector size. Airflow does. A car with some mods can flow ALOT more air at a given boost level.

Correct.

Goku: Also, 19psi on a 16G is a lot less than 19psi on a garret gt35R. You need to take air "bandwidth" in to account too.

Rob

tama_mog
03-17-2004, 12:30 PM
Hey Goku, you mind sharing your dyno results when you get dynoed @ xs? And if u could, dyno with our 91 pump gas....I'm curious to see how much power you're making with ur mods. =)

GokuSSJ4
03-18-2004, 10:28 PM
yeah i sure will , im planing on doing the dyno with 91 octane . I should take 5 galones of 100 octane just in case i want to see different results and comparing with it ..hmmm..
that may be an option since you get 3 runs ... and you dont have to change anything , just pump away ...

bioman
04-05-2007, 11:57 PM
How good are they with dyno tuning the stock ecu with a flash? How much do they charge for a flash? Btw, this is for an Evo IX.

Terry S
04-06-2007, 09:32 AM
You win the necrobump award.

Over 3 years since the last post. Impressive.

Terry S

atlvalet
04-06-2007, 02:24 PM
This is the silliest bump I have seen in a LONG time.

bioman
04-07-2007, 02:50 AM
Why? Should I have started a new thread instead?

Coolguy949
04-07-2007, 10:14 AM
Yeah, probably since Evo ECU flashing was pretty rare back then.

tabio42
04-07-2007, 10:22 AM
Wow at least you made good use of the search function.

1WkdEvo
04-07-2007, 11:18 AM
Serious mad props for using search as noted above...now search Scot Gray and tuning technologies :-)

thugline
04-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Someone got ripped off!!!

g1ovan13
04-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Hmm.. sounds to expensive for a 295Whp.Thats my opinion only no intention of putting you down.Do you have the evo 8 or evo 9? I agree with Blak94GSX.Anyways as long as you enjoy your car thats the buttom line.

CRX2EVO
04-07-2007, 01:38 PM
ya ok, stop posting like this is a new thread

evobeaner
04-07-2007, 02:04 PM
I actually made 292 whp/ 290 wtq at harmanmotive way back in 05 for a grand total of $1,550.00 with tune, parts, and install.
with cams and gears and install and tune from the same place i spent an additional $850.00 resulting in 305 whp / 283 wtq.


then alfred at tuning technologies resulted in 320 whp/ 310 wtq for an additional $ 520.00 which includes smogrunners old bov and over 2 hours of tuning.


end result is $ 2,930.00 and the car gets over 250 city miles to a tank for an 8 mr with my 350 lb big ass.

davedave
04-07-2007, 10:45 PM
Harmanmotive and Tuning Tech use dynojet, which the number read higher than XS-Engineering Dyno Dynamic.

Terry S
04-08-2007, 11:02 AM
Harmanmotive and Tuning Tech use dynojet, which the number read higher than XS-Engineering Dyno Dynamic.


I'm pretty sure that back in 04, XS was still using their Dynojet then... When did they get a DD?

Terry S