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View Full Version : Best Fuel Rails? R there any difference?



han74j
03-16-2004, 12:03 AM
im looking to buy a fuel rail, but not sure which one. do all of the fuel rails made the same? in terms of delivering fuel, r they all the same? who makes the best fuel rails and why?

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 12:27 AM
The stock fuel rail is more than sufficient for injectors up to 850cc. If you need to go larger than that, well you are on your own at that point.

han74j
03-16-2004, 12:55 AM
oh really? wow im going for 720ccs, so.... but then does the aftermarket ones offer better fuel delivering?

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:01 AM
No, it is very important to NOT replace parts on the EVO unless you absolutely have to. It isn't a Honduh with everything designed for 130HP. The stock parts are really good and a common problem I see is that new owners look up parts that are available in a catalog and think that since it is listed it is a necessary upgrade. In many cases the factory part is better than the "upgrade" part.

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:06 AM
As far as the fuel system goes, use all of the stock lines, rail, pickup, etc. Just change the pump out to a larger in-tank unit. You can get pumps from 190lph up to 350lph. It is important to get the pump that matches the injector size rather than just getting the biggest baddest pump you can physically bolt to the vehicle.

I see a lot of problems with people going to aftermarket fuel filters and SS lines.

The only part that really needs to be upgraded is the fuel pressure regulator, which is good, but eventually you get to a fuel pump that is too large for the stock FPR to handle, and the base fuel pressure becomes too high in the off-boost range. This can be tuned around with some kind of fuel computer, but ultimately you can get AN fittings that attach to the stock rail and allow an aftermarket AFPR to be used to turn DOWN the fuel pressure with large pumps.

han74j
03-16-2004, 01:12 AM
hum since the stock injectors r 550L, i got a walbro 255L fuel pump.... that a good match? and would i need a fuel pressure regulator for that pump?

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:13 AM
Yeah that's a good match. The 720s with the Walmart 255HP with upgraded pump wiring will work nicely.

han74j
03-16-2004, 01:19 AM
hum..... thx for the info black gsx ill have to do more research then ahhahah i was so close on buying a one tomorrow ahha

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:21 AM
You are a brave man with the Greddy Emanage on your want to buy list...

Please get some Denso injectors and not ball-disk style...

Also, it is the JIC FLT-A2 "Magic Footwork Tune" Suspension system :p

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:32 AM
I don't want to sound like an asshole, but on some things I think it is important to be real clear about what works and what does not work. Some areas are not as critical as others.

han74j
03-16-2004, 01:37 AM
oh no its all good im pretty much a newbie trying to learn while doing here, so the things on my list what is critical and whats not? whats a waste? whats okay? what stuff i need and dont have? please give it to me =0)

TrickedOutEVOVIII
03-16-2004, 01:59 AM
damn homie...you want 300-350 whp with all that shit??? what else is left

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 02:03 AM
I think a custom-tuned reflash, AFC, EGT gauge and a datalogger, plus the junk you already have and you're done.

Intake, turbo-back exhaust, reflash, AFC, fuel pump, EGT gauge, boost controller, boost gauge, data logger, larger injectors, run some 110 octane fuel, boost at 25PSI, done.

If you want 350awhp on 91 cali pee-water you'll need a turbo upgrade.

han74j
03-16-2004, 02:08 AM
eah.... so greddy e-managment wont do the job then?

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 02:09 AM
It will, but it is more trouble than it is worth and generally inconsistent. The beauty of the AFC is its simplicity.

The reflash should get it in the ballpark, and then the AFC allows you to change the tune for different boost and fuel octane.

han74j
03-16-2004, 02:13 AM
eahhheahaheahhehaeheahahe............. well we will see about those, after the helix dp and cams im stopping for a few month i spend way over my budget this month. i bought enough shit for 4-5 month on my Original plan hahaha. so i hope by that ill have enough reserch done on the fuel rails and EMS.......

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 02:15 AM
If it was me I'd stick with the current engine mods and go with the RRE tuned JICs next. You should be making enough power at this point to benefit from improved suspension.

han74j
03-16-2004, 02:20 AM
eah.... i need more power ahhah ai just got raped by a wrx today so i feel bad!!! i need 3' turbo back, port the elbow to 3'......... then get cams. hold off, get fuel system because i dont want to go boooommmmm. after the fuel systems a/f ratio is good to go, then ill do suspension and clutch. im not planning to go to teh track any time soon so theres no need for me to get jics for daily driving

evod
03-16-2004, 04:07 AM
blak94gsx, i'd like to know why you think so about the emanage. how is it trouble and what is the incosistency? thanks.

augi1
03-16-2004, 09:27 AM
I think a custom-tuned reflash, AFC, EGT gauge and a datalogger, plus the junk you already have and you're done.

Intake, turbo-back exhaust, reflash, AFC, fuel pump, EGT gauge, boost controller, boost gauge, data logger, larger injectors, run some 110 octane fuel, boost at 25PSI, done.



Hey blak I recognize all the items you listed except a data logger? what exactly is it?? and what could/would you do with it??

thanks!

GokuSSJ4
03-16-2004, 09:46 AM
my main question on the e- management by greddy is to get who to tune it , and do you have tech support ???
If you plan to tune it yourself then good luck , but i dont know enough to start messing with air/fuel ratio and other items that needs to be tune.
EMS is a nice unit but thats something i plan once i go with a larger turbo, not with the stock unit.

TrickedOutEVOVIII
03-16-2004, 01:03 PM
how did you get raped by a WRX???!!!

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:54 PM
What mods did the WRX have?

I'm hoping it was Red and White with giant Easy Street stickers on the side...

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 01:59 PM
The Emanage has all the complexity and steep learning curve of a real standalone, with all of the disadvantages of a piggy-back unit. If you spend enough money getting all of the harnesses and sensors and crap to convert to speed-density, it isn't so bad, but then you still need to tune it all the time.

The stock ECU is pretty good, so just using a decent reflash and an AFC for fine-tuning should work good even with a turbo upgrade.

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 02:08 PM
Palm based Data logger for EVO/most imports:

http://pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=obdii

Basically you are interested in logging things like ignition timing, airflow, throttle position, fuel trims, oxygen feedback trim, and O2 sensor voltage at full throttle. With that and an EGT gauge you can fine tune an AFC in minutes.

augi1
03-16-2004, 02:29 PM
Palm based Data logger for EVO/most imports:

http://pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=obdii

Basically you are interested in logging things like ignition timing, airflow, throttle position, fuel trims, oxygen feedback trim, and O2 sensor voltage at full throttle. With that and an EGT gauge you can fine tune an AFC in minutes.

thanks for the info. this sounds like a handy tool, are you using it?

If so what kind of PDA are you using?

I think i would want to get the base evo info b4 I start to mod and flash it.

Blak94GSX
03-16-2004, 02:41 PM
The pocketlogger software and cable work with most Palm OS compatible units, so get whatever is on the compatibility list and is cheap. The biggest problem with some of the newer Palm units is that they only have USB ports, which don't work so hot with the serial input from the ECU.

The website has a list of the units that are known to work.

han74j
04-13-2004, 12:06 AM
how did you get raped by a WRX???!!!

it was a pretty fixed up wrx, and i think when i said raped it sounds pretty bad. he beat me by a car ish...... =0P pretty fixed up i think he have a lot of buschur stuff on it. not sure which stage!