Proper Upgrade Path

[Blaze]

G'day all:

I'm struggling to identify the proper upgrade path for my EVO. I'm looking to make steetable HP. That to me means stock internals and trying my damnest to keep the factory warranty.

So far, I've done the basic bolts ons: turbo back exhaust, intake, boost controller, but at this point I'm lost as to where to go next.

HKS does not make a sport turbo yet for the car and I don't feel like spending 4 grand for a "Kit"

Most of the tubular headers I'm seeing lately are not chrio treated, nor are they equal length, so I don't feel like spending the money on something I know will leak, crack or worse in a short period of time.

A dyno flash was on my list until I found out it wasn't local to me and I don't feel I'd get the maximum gains by mail. Further more, it would limit any furture mods.

So I'd like to poll some suggestions. I have a SAFC, but after talking to XS, they strongly recomended I sell it and opt for a Power FC. Do the strongest gains now lie not in bolt ons, but proper tuning? Or is this something that sould be put off until a stronger platform is established?

Thanks in advance,

Jason

"Speed kills. Support Honda tuning!"

[leaveit2bevo]

Tunning is the next step forget dynoflash.My works p2 flash hauls ass. I know brainstorm will tune your SAFC, as far as the power fc is concerned its a big waste of money. It only holds one map so if you want to rock a 93 map or 100 map you cant do it.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

how much for a P2 bevo??? im very interested when i get my car back cuz im pretty much done with mods.

[gt40]

So I'd like to poll some suggestions. I have a SAFC, but after talking to XS, they strongly recomended I sell it and opt for a Power FC

that is a shameless plug worthy of a whore...

[han74j]

i personally like pulleys, but not a lot of other people like them...... you can go for fuel system after this with some kinda a/f managment!!! then u will see a huge gain! get IC before you tune ur car!! you will see your whp jump like crazy!!

oh yes yes yes, u should get boost gauge!!! since u have boost control already, its better to get the gauges to see what u r boosting.

u dont have to go stright to fuel system, u can go to suspension instend.

i personlly think you should think of ur goal! interms of how much whp u plan to get to ur car, whats ur car going to be use for. GT40 hes building a godddddddddddd race car so he like billions of mods on hes car. im building my car to be semi track, semi daily driving 300-400 range depends on how well they can tune my car. you should do that, cause theres no limit to what u can mod ur car, if gt40 have a mod list just look at it makes u want to spend all ur money and be faster than him (highly unlikly)...

[blurr]

Dynoflash will be here in a few weeks.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67654

April 9,10,11

[ErroR]

Works P2 is definitely a good mod. Check out worksrally.com and talk to Pete.

[leaveit2bevo]

how much for a P2 bevo??? im very interested when i get my car back cuz im pretty much done with mods.

we got a 10% socalevo discount so I think OTD it was 580

[Blaze]

They say there are no stupid questions....but here goes.

What are the odds of HKS 264 or 272 cams passing CA smog? And does anyone know the average power gains from these?

If I decide on a dyno flash, will this eliminate the use/need for my SAFC?

Cheers,

Jason

[perversity]

264s should be good for smog. 272s may fail the smog check at idle because they are so lumpy with the stock ecu. If you want to pass smog and keep warranty then you want to stick with a piggy-back style ecu that works with your stock one. If you have a stand-alone ecu like aem ems you will fail smog immediately as the smog machine won't recognize it as the factory ecu. SAFCII is simple and cheap, but doesn't allow you to work with timing. MBc is cheap but EBc will be more effective. I believe the HKS F-CON V Pro is a full on engine management unit that works in piggy-back configuration. you would certainly need something like that if you are planning on cams and a different turbo.

[robi]

I use my buschur flash (by Al) and my SAFC. I have the car flash tuned to race gas then use the Safc to detune it for pump fuel. You can also use the SAFC to retune between flashes..and your right, get a road-tuned flash it's worth the extra $$'s because any mail-in flash while much better than stock still has many more safeguards in place. Look into the Dynoflash SO cal day coming up you won't be disappointed.

[leaveit2bevo]

dynoflash=weaksauce

[Justin1933]

Let it go Bevo...We know you don't like him....No need for a flame post...

[leaveit2bevo]

im not starting anything im just pointing some thing out

[Justin1933]

When it's based on personal feelings/opinions, it's starting something....

[leaveit2bevo]

wtf im not stating opinions

[Justin1933]

Do you have or ever have had the Dynoflash? That's my point...I have it and was very happy with Al and the performance of the tune...He may be an a-hole, but was good to me and has a good product...

I don't want to start anything here...Just let it go...

[Justin1933]

Easy there...All I was saying is don't bad mouth a product that you haven't used...That's all...Settle down....We are all on the same team...

[augi1]

Tunning is the next step forget dynoflash.My works p2 flash hauls ass. I know brainstorm will tune your SAFC, as far as the power fc is concerned its a big waste of money. It only holds one map so if you want to rock a 93 map or 100 map you cant do it.

A little OT here but, I am getting the AFC from rob (support your local business) and wanted it installed and tuned.

I was thinking of either brainstorm or RRE. Anyone have it their settings done by either?

[Coolguy949]

The EMS and Power FC both only store one map, whenever you want to change maps you have to have your laptop handy and swap the maps. At least with the Power FC you have the commander if you want to make some little adjustments.

[leaveit2bevo]

whatever im not suprised your a homoflush victim so you need to rationalize your investment, but your trying to start shit by posting about it so maybe you should take your own advice

[Justin1933]

Fine...I'm done...Sorry to take up board space...Dynoflash sucks...Don't get it....

[Blaze]

Geez, you guys argue too much. But that's cool. I think I have an understanding on what path I should take.

My goal is to have enough HP to pull a mid 12 second 1/4 mile pass, but with a smooth enough power curve that I don't get highs/lows when rounding corners on a canyon run. "Fully Streetable HP" And of course, I want 500 RWHP and pass CA emmisions, and not void my warranty....

lmao

I'm going to see about a fuel pump, and cams and head bolts in order to build a solid foundation, then follow with some kind of tuning componenet that will alter my timing as well as fuel curve.

(I won't state which one I'm leaning toward...). ;-)

Thanks to those who contributed.

Jason
"There's always someone faster then you, so you'd better learn proper sideswipe techniques when you come off the line...".

[tama_mog]

u want a 12 second quarter mile....unless you're running race gas with that setup with high boost and the full cams etc.....ur not gonna get it. You want to run it reliably, get a turbo upgrade, maybe the t3/t04 50 trim and u can probably run ur goal reliably just with head studs. I say get the cams/headstuds and obviously tuning as next step, not satisfied still? Then get the turbo, but dun need to go too big. Good luck.

[robi]

The mods you already have void your warranty ;-)

[gt40]

whatever im not suprised your a homoflush victim so you need to rationalize your investment, but your trying to start shit by posting about it so maybe you should take your own advice



Easy there...All I was saying is don't bad mouth a product that you haven't used...That's all...Settle down....We are all on the same team...

Everyone chill here and keep on topic. Tuning is adjusting fuel, air and timing though the power range. You can do this with a flash, piggyback or standalone like an ems. If you do things right, you will arrive at basically the same result regardless of the method. As mentioned, piggyback's and stand alones allow future adjustment so you have to ask yourself if you are a tweeker and going to keep modding or not. If you are then do a piggyback or standalone. As you go to a standalone, you have complete control and more work to get the car drivable. Flashes are good for basic mod and forget.

Forget the warranty and decide that you want to go fast... or not.

In any case, come out to the track next month. Driving well matters a whole lot more than which tune you have...

[moogle]

We still going to do that race bevo.

Not no streetz of willow bcz u already have an advantage with rre tune. I am talking about drag! I have prob same mods or less than U and lets finish it after I get a re-flash this april.

Lets go to fontana and someone grab a video of me pulling on bevo.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

ill do the video!!!

[gt40]

Not no streetz of willow bcz u already have an advantage with rre tune. I am talking about drag! I have prob same mods or less than U and lets finish it after I get a re-flash this april.

Moogle,

Come out in April and we will turn the back straight into a drag during lunch for anyone wanting to eat their clutches :twisted: Then you can learn car control as well as spank bevo's sausage- if you think you can!

[GokuSSJ4]

Like every one has stated deciding on what your goal is helps alot , instead of just throwing mods together and hope that they work well, if not the best in your car.
What are your limitation , if between 320-380whp is your goal that can be achieve on a stock turbo (just ask Robi)
If you want a bit more then that or less , you decide. Also you need to consider on what octane you plan to achieve this goal, because you will find your limitations to what you can do. For example : Robi can achieve 380whp but thats on c-16 running 23psi on the stock turbo. For the track its the best but for the street using c-16 is a bit too much , thats why he detunes it with the SAFC and runs 18psi on pump gas.
Flashes like : WORKS P2 , DynoFlash, XFlash are as good as tuning tools and a stand alone , as long as you have all of your mods done. deciding who tune's your car is a MUST, to see what results they can achieve out of your set up, also they will determine how good your car runs with them tuning it
The limitations with the Flash or the cons is once you start modding the car again after you have tune it what you currently have , for best results you need to get flash again .
For a piggy back like APS, UTEC, Xede, are excellent tools and you are still runing your stock ecu with controlling air,fuel and timing. But some piggy backs have certain limitations. Like some are able to run bigger injectors while others you can't.
depending who your tuner is (which is super important you pick who will tune your car) you will have gains compare to a standalone.
The stand alone's like EMS, Power FC are great if not the best out there, the reason is because regarless what set up your throw at them you can always tune it. From mild to wild, The only set back is the amount of money you will spend on tuning and setting up with what you plan to do with the car.
Power FC offers 2 different types L-jetro and D-jetro, which one allows you the removal of MAF (mass air flow meter) and the other one allows you to keep it. That's a route that you must decide to do before you purchase the unit, since you have to go either one way or the other with the Power FC . Also they recommend a boost controller with the unit , since it only holds boost to factory specs.
You have the option of purchasing the FC commander, which allows you to tune the car (takes a long time) but it allows you to have the ability to change with out a labtop. But for best results its recommend it to go to an excel dealer (authorize by Apexi) which theres only a few of those, Like XS engineering.
Power FC only allows you to have one map, if you want to switch you need to tune all over again only holding one map..
EMS : one of the best , if not the best out in the market for the value compare to Motech, Haltech which are almost if not twice to triple the amount for it .
EMS has no limitations to what you can do to your car, since you are able to always tune it. Is like a never ending mod to your car.
Also it allows you the option to keep or get rid off the MAF (turning in to MAP) it gives you the option , which you can start with it and then later on add the sensors you required to remove it . EMS is also available with the UEGO (02 wide band) which is great if you plan to do your own tuning or learn how to .
The EMS was recently release (at least there latest model available for the Evo) and somethings need to still be work out. It also allows you to hold different maps , which you have to tune the car for it and a labtop is required each time that you want to switch to it. A labtop is a strongly recommended for it, just in case you have problems at the track or anytime you are pushing the car , that way you can see what the car is doing... Strongly recommeded to get familiar with the system and software (reading the EMS board is a great learning tool) and working close with your tunner . Like Mike @ RRE will show you the basics of how to tune the car and to get familiar with it.
remember that a standalone controls everything , replacing your currently ecu , while other don't . It involves lots of tuning, and if you are not familiar with it taking it to RRE or Brainstorm are a must !!!! an also you will pay a lot for tuning, sometimes even more then the cost for any of the other units. Its an excellent tuning tool and you can get the best out of the car, specially if you plan to run a larger turbo and injectors....
Hope that helps and sorry for the miss spells :lol:

[leaveit2bevo]

son of a bitch thast a long post

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

looool

[Absinthe]

Hey Bevo I want to ride in your P2 car, Im deciding between that or DYno Flsh/mbc/buscher intake since they cost about the same and I want to see the power of the P2 first.

so r U going to SOW?

Also what set up and tires do you have from RRE?

[GokuSSJ4]

son of a bitch thast a long post

lol yeah im trying to be Rich .... :lol:
Bevo's car is slow he gets smoke all the time, even with the RRE set up :wink: j/p ....

[Coolguy949]

Both Rich and Bevo are slow......

Rich has a 500lb beanstalk coming out of the sunroof slowing him down while bevo has a cargo full of sausage!!

Just playing too, couldnt resist.

In truth, both Rich and Bevo are really fast. Be careful or you'll be wanting to go back to driving school if you enounter one of these guys. :)

[leaveit2bevo]

hahahha yes at least we got both the bean stolk and sausage jokes. Absinthe I live within 5 mintues of santa monica so pm me if you want to drive my car one day.