Whiteline Group 4 Coilovers

[Arnie]

I understand that these coilovers are now available for the Evo in the US. I've been using these on my WRX Wagon and I think they would make a very viable option to what's out there right now. I've got a few friend's with Evo's and they've been pretty impressed with the performance and supple ride quality

Just a general review of these coilovers for you guys. I'm very impressed with the Whiteline Group 4's.

Let me preface my opinions with some of my suspension experience on my cars. I've had P1 suspension on my RS, driven lots on STi V7/8 (both stock RA and with pink springs) and had the STi Genome on my wagon. I've driven various TEIN, JIC and DMS setups as well. For a "standard" strut/spring combo, I've always been very impressed with the high speed handling of the STi inverted suspension. They soak up big compressions and hits quite well at speed, taking a set quickly with little drama. However, their low to medium speed ride quality leaves lots to be desired. Quite similar to the Evo. Very bouncy and pretty non-compliant. My STi Genome suspension was a JDM import that is non-inverted but about 20% more firm than the stock WRX. So someplace in between the STi inverted stuff and stock as far as stiffness goes. I loved this suspension. Gone was the head bobbing jigglies that I used to have with the inverted STi suspension. Just supple ride qualities but still enough damping to really make the car feel much more settled and planted compared to stock. I found, though, that on high speed bumpy corners, under braking, that the damping left a little bit to be desired. Just not enough control and response. I've always found the Japanese coilovers (TEIN, JIC, etc.) to be just harsh. Nice on a perfectly smooth track but usually just unforgiving and poor handling on real roads. Their over damped, over sprung, short stroke travel just had me skating across rough corners. So they were never an option. I'd spent a lot of time talking to Jim Gurieff of Whiteline to get the details about this new coilover setup and was impressed by their spring rate choice and overall suspension tuning philosphy. So I took the plunge.

The Whiteline Group 4 coilovers use 280f/224r spring rates mounted on non-inverted struts with a 46mm piston. Very beefy. Compare these spring rates to most of the Japanese track based offerings of 4-500lb/ft springs. For a road going car, I can't imagine how people use these kinds of rates on a daily basis. But don't let this relatively "soft" rate fool you. This car corners flat and sure through any corner. And the valving is good to run up to a 500lb spring if you decide to go for slicks on a road course. Another big plus is the amount of travel. In the recommended lowering range of these struts, they have about 10mm more bump travel than the STi inverted suspension! However, the real magic is in the valving of the strut. Whiteline has figured out how to get the car to ride very supple, as supple as my beloved STi Genome setup but with performance that ramps up to incredible levels. At medium damping settings, the car rides just smooth over roads and those invisible road irregularities that have most STi V7/8 owners cringing due to the constant bobbing and jiggle. They also have nice details such as adjusters on the tops of the struts to keep them out of the muck. The rears have an extension so that you can access the adjuster without pulling the backseat out on a sedan. Try that with any of the other offerings. Plus they have rebuilding/revalving support here in the US. No hassles like sending the units back to Japan. I have these paired with STi Group N top hats as well as a host of other Whiteline bits (swaybars, ALK, rear camber bolts, steering rack bushings). These things are quiet too. No knocking noise that seem to plague most of the TEIN product, with just a bit of spring crash when taking speed bumps at speed.

The Group 4's probably have the most travel available for a road/track setup outside of a rally length setup. One important aspect I've noticed with this suspension compared to say the TEIN Flex's is the stability they have over mid-corner bumps. When you are at maximum G's going around a corner, your outside wheels and suspension are fully loaded and, with a short stroke coilover, usually at full compression because the stroke is too short. If you hit a bump mid corner you will just get bumped off line because you've got no travel left. With the Group 4's nothing happens. You stay on line and maintain traction.


Many people say that if you want to have a performance suspension you need to give up ride quality. That harshness is just part of the compromise for big performance. I think many big buck German and Italian performance cars would beg to differ. They seem to have managed to tune a track worthy suspension setup that is perfectly liveable day to day. And with this set of coilovers,you can also add Whiteline to that list as well.

I was driving a quick clip down this curvy, relatively rough road, riddled with cracks and these mid corner compressions that, when taken at a decent clip (about 70), really upset a car. In my car with the Genomes, I would hit those compressions and have a bit of that feeling of dropping kinda quick and then the car taking a set after one initial rebound jounce. Not too unsettling but definitely wakes me up. I took it the other night on the Group 4's and those same compressions were just bizarrely smooth. I'm sure most of you can recall what a rally car looks like after perfectly landing a big jump in Finland. Just a soft, smooth landing with no secondary bounce. The car just softly takes a set and keeps going. How that looks is what it felt like going through this compression. I felt the car descend into the compression but the soft "landing" surprised me. I was expecting a firm bounce and a quick set. It took a very quick set but it was just feather smooth. I was surprised and sooo impressed. I need to take that road again and see if it wasn't just a flook!
BTW I was in canyon carving damping mode of about 9F/7R.

I can't praise this setup enough and give them 2 thumbs up!

Addtional suspension tidbits

Whiteline 22mm Front/22-24mm rear sway bars (rear set to 22 and 23 settings, still experimenting)
Whiteline Comfort ALK
Whiteline Heavy Duty rear sway bar mounts
Whiteline Steering Rack bushings
Whiteline HD Aluminum endlinks
Rota Tarmacs w/Toyo T1-S 225/45-17
Basic alignment spec:
Front camber -1.5 degrees, Toe Zero
Rear camber - 1.2 degrees, Toe Zero

- Wife happy cruise setup seems to be about 7F/5R give or take one click.
- Canyon carving setup goes up two clicks F/R to about 9F/7R

I'll need to get proper measurements but I'm sitting at about 3/4" below stock height. Basically what my STi Genome setup was. I really like the balance that that setup had. I've set the front about 1/4" a bit lower than that, to see if it gives me just a bit more bite on turn in. I'm very far from even fender gaps!!!! I love my larger front fender gap baby!

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/1K400_web.jpg

Tiny pics of suspension on the Evo

http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/evo_viii/DCP_3702-s.jpg

http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/evo_viii/DCP_3697-s.jpg

[leaveit2bevo]

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album196/positive8_001.jpg

[Takashi]

what up arnie! what's the pricing on these?
alot of people around here are very happy with mueller setup jic's. i wonder how these would compare right out of the box? just a thought, not looking for flame wars or anything.
greg

[jondukes]

what up arnie! what's the pricing on these?
alot of people around here are very happy with mueller setup jic's. i wonder how these would compare right out of the box? just a thought, not looking for flame wars or anything.
gregyeah i second that those JIC' are pretty low and kinda rough my friend has them, but they sure do perform!
glad to know theres other options out there,thanks arnie

[Arnie]

Hey guys! The most important aspect about coilovers is setup and it seems that mueller/JIC setup is very nice.

The Evo coilovers use pretty much identical spring rates as the WRX/STi setup and maintain pretty much all of the stock travel at lowered ride heights. That is one of the main differences between these and pretty much every track based JDM coilover. The JIC's and Zeals and TEINs have a very short stroke. Great for smooth tracks but get them out in the real world of cross camber compressions and ruts and it gets ugly fast. This is not to say that these coilovers are not track worthy as the Whtieline Evo has had top placings in recent road 'rally' events in Australia. This up against cars with full cages and very big buck suspension and engine tuning.

The other aspect that really separates these coilovers is the valving. I don't know the technical aspects of it but I'm contantly amazed at how smooth they are while still just being sooo controlled.

I think pricing will retail around $2300.

Takashi, I'll definitely need to hook up with you so you can take the car for a drive. I've been giving people drive's in it at the SFV Scoobie meets.

[Arnie]

I'm just getting started on this board, but I will definitely try to make some of the Evo meets (if you don't mind a Scooby being there!) so you guys can get a drive. I hear that another SoCal Evo owner is mounting these on his ride soon so hopefully he'll see this thread and chime in.

BTW, thanks for the warm responses to a noob and scooby doer!

[Arnie]

Here's my car with the Whiteline's on. Note how not slammed it is. But it still corners as flat as a pancake. For a track event I would perhaps lower it another 1/2" for the lower CoG. But that would mostly depend on the tires (R-compounds or streets)

http://www.frustmag.com/car_pics_for_web/corsas2.jpg

[Takashi]

what a sweet wagon.... note the mudflaps :)

anyhow, $2300 is a pretty pennie! you mentioned that the spring rates are probably going to be identical. however, most evo coilovers/springs have stiffer rear springs, opposed to subies which usually have stiffer front springs... it just seems like to keep the car balanced, the evo coilovers should follow that trend: stiffer rear springs. just a thought.

[Arnie]

Greg,

I was mistaken about the spring rates, they are a bit higher in the rear:
280f/255R

Still an opposite balance compared to stock but I'm sure they have their reasons. If your read Whiteline's comments on the following thread, a few paragraphs down, they explain the spring rate decision.

Copied from this thread:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=93026&page=5&pp=15

From Whiteline:


G’day everyone,

It was suggested that we pipe in with some answers to some of the technical questions regarding our Project EVO VIII and setup.

ColinL, you’re spot on with your comments regarding excessive lowering and the height shown in the Dutton NSW pictures is quite low and represents around 50mm lower than stock. Initially we had a week to prepare the suspension on this car back in May and we followed our normal procedure for tarmac racing of starting with as low a height as the dampers could handle. Naturally this included factoring in critical geometry like roll centre position but in our experience, until completely “sorted” its best to start with a C of G down as low as possible.

We started at this height because the Group 4 coilovers are specifically designed for tarmac and lowered height and so they still had a round 25mm of bump clearance (before bump stop) at this height. Subsequent improvements and enhancements have seen the height climb to around 40mm below stock with out any loss in performance. Current compromise spring rates are 280lb front and 255lb rear. By compromise I’m referring to event like a road-rally where circuit sprints are mixed in with hill climbs and tight Auto-X style control events in dry and wet conditions. We would increase rates by up to 20% if used only on circuit. Of course this is assumed that we are still using Dunlop D-02 intermediate race tyres, as spring rates will changes with tyre type and spec. Plus, it fits product spec in being a mid-week road car and weekend racer.

Many people are often surprised at the relatively low rates we use and the rate bias front to rear. Being a full range suspension company, we also produce swaybars and these are always part of the mix. It’s not advisable to control roll with spring rates and we find this to be a common problem. Typically we find excessive rear rates to counter standard roll bars resulting in a lack of outer wheel compliance when loaded mid corner. For the record, Project EVO VIII uses our 25mm heavy-duty front swaybar and 24mm heavy-duty adjustable rear.

For the second event we did some more intensive work with geometry with a view to increasing our product portfolio for the EVO VIII.. We had a chance to map the static and dynamic geometry back in May but not a lot of time to do much about it. We got the car back for a week and developed a strategy for the next stage. The second outing featured the spring rates mentioned (reduced from the first event), the sway bars detailed, a rear strut brace (the car does not use a roll cage at the moment.) and a front and rear bump steer modification kit.

The car tested a lot faster on our local test circuit with much better turn-in, less entry understeer while still being neutral on exit. Unfortunately Martin the lead team driver had a “brain meltdown” during the event and made a lot of mistakes with mounting penalties. Simon the co-driver won the outright co-drivers trophy but Martins errors put us in 3rd place outright. As usual the event included over 20 Porsches, (some factory RS’s with full cage etc), WRX’s and other EVO’s including another VIII. The event was ultimately won by a race specced EVO III with 210Kw+ at the wheels (Project EVO VIII is still virtually standard with 165Kw), full cage and remote canister coil-overs etc.


Anyway, hope this helps.

Regards

Jim Gurieff
Whiteline Automotive



And yes, gotta love the Prodrive flaps!

About the spring rates most coilover manufacturers go with siffer up front.....check it out
Coilovers:

APEXI PRO:..............560lbs(10.K).....560lbs(10.K)... .Adjustable
CUSCO Zero 1:........392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjusta ble
CUSCO Zero 2:........392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjusta ble
CUSCO Zero 2R:......392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjustab le
HKS Hypermax II:....392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0K)....Adjustable
HKS Hypermax RS....336lbs(6.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjustable
HKS Kansai Tarmac:.448lbs(8.0K).....448lbs(8.0K)....Adjustabl e
HKS Kansai Track:....896lbs(16.K).....784lbs(14.K)....Adjusta ble
HKS Performer:........392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0k)... .Adjustable
HKS PRO:.................672lbs(12.K).....672lbs(12.K) ....Adjustable
JIC FLT A2:...............560lbs(10.K).....504lbs(9.0K)... Adjustable
OHLINS FLAG L:.............ANy ..............Any ...............Adjustable
OHLINS R/T:.............250lbs(4.4k).....310lbs(5.5k)....Ad justable
Ralliart:....................336lbs(6.0K).....336l bs(6.0K)....Adjustable
Tein Basic:...............392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0K) ....Adjustable
Tein Flex:.................504lbs(9.0K).....448lbs(8.0K )....Adjustable
Tein SS:...................392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0k )....Adjustable
Tein RA:...................672lbs(12.K).....504lbs(9,0K )....Adjustable
Tein HA:...................504lbs(9.0K).....392lbs(7.0K )....Adjustable
Tein HT:...................896lbs(16.K).....672lbs(12.K )....Adjustable
ZEAL:.......................336lbs(6.0K).....280lb s(5.0k)....Adjustable
ZEAL Also:...............448lbs(8.0k).....392lbs(7.0k). ...Adjustable

[leaveit2bevo]

but who will tune these coilovers?

[Arnie]

At this point, I don't think Whiteline has anyone like RRE/Mueller to "tune" the coilovers. They're obviously too new. But honestly, I don't think these need as much "tuning" as the JIC's do. The JICs come stock with ridiculous damping and spring rates and from what I've read, RRE, does quite a bit to to try to dial out this harshness ( as well as set them up for proper ride height, basic damper settings and some spring rate changes) for road or track. I think anyone buying the Whitelines can easily come out ahead of most coilover solutions by getting basic ride height, sway bar combos and damping settings straight from Whiteline. Once again, that's my biggest issue with most JDM coilovers, they are, for the most part tuned to an extreme for track bias, a pretty smooth track at that. They are just impossible on a daily basis. Some folks like their kidneys and teeth rattled daily, more power to you. ;)

I really need to get a ride in an RRE/Mueller tuned setup so I can make a "direct" comparison.

Edit: to keep people from thinking I'm a vendor! I repeat, I am not a vendor, just an enthusiast.

[Arnie]

bump

[Muellerized...]

I've been using these on my WRX Wagon and I think they would make a very viable option to what's out there right now.

What on earth does Subaru Wagon suspension have to do with EVO suspension? The cars are so different in about every way other than being of Japanese origin, this comparison does not make the least bit of sense. And before you start bashing me saying I do not have Subaru experience, think again, as the 2004 Pike's Peak winning Subaru WRX driven by Stephan Verdier climbed the hill on a set of Muellerized JICs.

There is an EVO at RRE with JICs most days of the week for hell-ride duty, but I would prefer to educate you about suspension while driving on a race course when your schedule permits.

[Born2Net]

MUELLER!!! SUSPENSION GOD!!! JIC RULES!!!

[Arnie]

Hey John, certainly, would love to go for one of your terror rides! I'm a sucker for learning more about suspension.

What does Subaru suspension have to do with Evo suspension? Of course they are different. However, my point is, that these new coilovers are available for the Evo and that they are a quality setup that people should know about. There are very similar suspension setup philosphies between the Subaru and Mitsubishi (Evo) crowd, respectively, over sprung, over damped coilover systems with no travel that are horrible to drive on anything but a glass smooth track. Sure, there is always a compromise if someone pushes their setup to one extreme or the other (to get the best performance) but I'm letting people know that there is now a solution that eliminates the harshness of your typical "JDM track biased and used for the road" suspension but can still perform as well or better than them on the track. Whiteline's Evo is performing very well against cars with much more horsepower and bigger suspension budgets. And because Whiteline's suspension tuning philosophy is similar for all their products/cars, I'm making the leap of faith that my experience with these coilovers in a Subaru can be had in an Evo.

I'm excited for the first Evo's to try this suspension out. Obviously the proof will be in the pudding, so we'll see when someone gets these mounted how they stack up.

[Muellerized...]

However, my point is, that these new coilovers are available for the Evo and that they are a quality setup that people should know about. There are very similar suspension setup philosphies between the Subaru and Mitsubishi (Evo) crowd, respectively, over sprung, over damped coilover systems with no travel that are horrible to drive on anything but a glass smooth track.

You are making broad generalizations about suspensions that apparently you have no first hand experience with. Please get your beloved suspension underneath a USA spec EVO 8 before you champion the cause of how good it is, before typing how well it works, or your belief that your wagon experience relates to EVO performance. I am sure there is a more relevant forum for your wagon suspension to be typed about than socalevo.

[ChrisF]

Wow John, are you that threatened by the thought of a competing product being any good? You are correct that the proof will be in the pudding (when installed on a USDM EVO VIII). But, based on Whiteline’s reputation for suspension products and based now on a hands on review of a similar product they’ve made for the WRX, it is very likely they will make a solid viable product for the EVO that won’t require proprietary tuning.

If it’s garbage, I think it’s you who should wait to proclaim it such until you’ve driven it.

[drmosh]

But, based on Whiteline’s reputation for suspension products and based now on a hands on review of a similar product they’ve made for the WRX, it is very likely they will make a solid viable product for the EVO that won’t require proprietary tuning.

That's a broad statement... "won't require proprietary tuning" can be applied to all suspensions that are made. What do you mean by that? Street, track, or what???

[Arnie]

I think Chris's point is that, out of the box the JIC, have had a number of complaints about harsh riding on the streets due to insane spring rates, stiff damping, etc. and that it seems that they best perform after being tuned properly by someone like RRE.

[Arnie]

John,

Thanks for your reply! Let me see if I understand your logic here. If an Evo owner would say, "hey, I just got these JICs and they are awesome! I hear they have them for the WRX/STi, you should look into them." Because the Evo and WRX/STi have different suspension setups you would not recommend them to someone with a different automotive make? Can we imply from your statement that the manufacturers have such different setups for each make that one could not generalize and say that if company X makes an awesome product for car Y that the quality of engineering would not be assumed to be applied to their other products?

[gt40]

Wow John, are you that threatened by the thought of a competing product being any good? You are correct that the proof will be in the pudding (when installed on a USDM EVO VIII). But, based on Whiteline’s reputation for suspension products and based now on a hands on review of a similar product they’ve made for the WRX, it is very likely they will make a solid viable product for the EVO that won’t require proprietary tuning.

Let's not be inflammatory here- come out to the track with your suspension to the upcoming EOC event and put your theories to the test instead of internet jousting.

All of the fastest cars at EOC events have been setup by Mueller/RRE by multiple seconds...

[Muellerized...]

Wow John, are you that threatened

Nope, there is nothing on this thread other than people parroting what they heard elsewhere on the internet. I live, work, race and exist in the real world, not internet fantasyland of what _could_ be, as you and Arnie choose to do.

Bring your brand xyz equipment to a racetrack underneath an EVO, then you will have some facts to type about.

Nice first post on Socalevo, I am sure you will make and influence lots of friends here.

[Muellerized...]

Because the Evo and WRX/STi have different suspension setups you would not recommend them to someone with a different automotive make?

When you decide to have a discussion about EVO suspension on the EVO forum, please let me know. Some of us have EVO road racing cars to prepare, which is a higher priority for me than educating wagon pilots about all of the many differences between the 2 vehicle platforms you are choosing to debate, and how each difference influences component selection for optimum handling.

If you care to have your car optimized for your application, please contact me off-list at [email protected]

[Arnie]

:shock: Whew, tough crowd here! John, no one asked you to school me on the difference between the two platforms, I can find that out myself. And no one asked you to jump in on this thread. So please, go back to setting up your race cars.

The point of this thread is to inform this community that there is a new coilover available for the Evo. One can take the relevance of my personal opinions/experiences as one will. It doesn't change the fact they are available now. And that is the whole point of this thread.

[Terenus]

Hey guys! The most important aspect about coilovers is setup and it seems that mueller/JIC setup is very nice.

The Evo coilovers use pretty much identical spring rates as the WRX/STi setup and maintain pretty much all of the stock travel at lowered ride heights. That is one of the main differences between these and pretty much every track based JDM coilover. The JIC's and Zeals and TEINs have a very short stroke. Great for smooth tracks but get them out in the real world of cross camber compressions and ruts and it gets ugly fast. This is not to say that these coilovers are not track worthy as the Whtieline Evo has had top placings in recent road 'rally' events in Australia. This up against cars with full cages and very big buck suspension and engine tuning.

The other aspect that really separates these coilovers is the valving. I don't know the technical aspects of it but I'm contantly amazed at how smooth they are while still just being sooo controlled.

I think pricing will retail around $2300.

Takashi, I'll definitely need to hook up with you so you can take the car for a drive. I've been giving people drive's in it at the SFV Scoobie meets.

$2,300! Wow, for that money, I'd rather go with the JICs tuned by RRE that are PROVEN to be great suspension on the track. So until we see some reviews, JICs is the way to go!

[Muellerized...]

And no one asked you to jump in on this thread. The point of this thread is to inform this community that there is a new coilover available for the Evo.

Actually, I was invited to participate in this particular forum by the socalevo community. You chose to spam this forum, so here we are. You will find that speaking from your personal EVO experience will carry a lot more weight around here than cutting and pasting info from other websites.

[gt40]

John is the suspension guest moderator of SoCalEvo.net and has earned a lot of repect through his efforts of generously donating time to instruct at EOC events, support of SoCalEvo and through assisting countless members. You are way off base here.

[Arnie]

Sounds good John. I figure, as a newb as well as a non-evo owner, its always tough getting involved with a new community.

SPAM? Does this community not allow tips on new products available for the Evo? Are people here so intolerant? I understand the difficulty in fully embracing an untested product based on the say so of someone who doens't even own the relevant car. However, is it so hard to say, "sounds interesting, let's wait and see how it fairs on our shores"?

Terenus - I fully agree. A wait and see attitude is the way to go when you're talking over 2K for something.


Just call me bench racer wagon pilot! :P

[Arnie]

Gt40 - I'm aware of John's rep and deification on these boards. I fully respect that. I've stated that many times in this thread.

I'm just curious now, if its worth posting new finds on this board, if you don't even have an Evo? Are opinions only listened to or respected only if you have an Evo?

[Knower]

Gt40 - I'm aware of John's rep and deification on these boards. I fully respect that. I've stated that many times in this thread.

I'm just curious now, if its worth posting new finds on this board, if you don't even have an Evo? Are opinions only listened to or respected only if you have an Evo?

Nope, the board just doesn't want to hear about all the extra gushing about a product you haven't actually driven an Evo with. If you post a new find with your relevant comments and a general "I've had great experiences with the quality/ride of this company's products in my WRX, here's another option for you Evo owners" it would probably be accepted eagerly.

The problem comes with people who have little to zero suspension knowledge coming in and basing a product's worth on their entirely subjective experience (not saying this is entirely you, but people do on a regular basis). Regardless, I think you've taken John's zealous responses in stride and should survive well here if you understand that yes, people fully feel that just because one product is good for one car does not make it good for another, and that we have a great community here, just very vocal.

EDIT: And also, you'll forget this whole thread if you take up John's offer for a hell ride. Partly because the internet is nothing like face to face with someone, and because a hell ride is a damn lot of fun. :D

[robi]

Real world EVo Race Track experiance beating your peers 1 on 1 will generate respect here. Ifs, shoulda, coulda, woulda, and's, buts and other posing just digs a hole and limits your mobility when the hits start coming. Ive been working WITH RRE on other options for the EVO for SIX FRIGGIN months been through lots of junk and STILL haven't equaled the JIC setup so if Johns kinda testy think of the thousands (yes 1,000's) of hours he has AT THE TRACK tuning the current setup and you can see why the "new kid on the block" should prove in real life not just pose "interesting opportunities"

[Muellerized...]

SPAM?

When you start posting "bump" to your own thread you are a spammer. I was steering clear of this thread because it was going to waste a bunch of shop time wading into it with you, but clearly you wanted to carry on a conversation about your suspension topic.

Find me at a track event for a quality hell-ride, the next EOC event would be an excellent event for you to attend.

[QuickShifter]

If anyone on this forum heres of a new product for the EVO, I would love to hear about it.

The one thing about tuning your car is making sure you know what your getting into....so if you ask me....someone letting the forum know of a new product is only helping us make the right decision. Even if the product sucks, id like to read about it at least, so thanks for the post Arnie

As for the people that speak for RRE....im assuming theres like 50-75 representitives on this site at all times ready to attack......you people need to CALM DOWN....you sound like little kids screaming who's skateboard wheels are better, we all know now that the fastest eoc cars have muellerized JIC setups, and thats cool, infact its what i plan on getting on my car after i sort out some issues......the point is to keep your opinion to yourselves now and let others speak...FOR ONCE

SO LET IT BE KNOWN.......RRE IS GOD.....RRE IS SUSPENSION GOD......RRE IS SUSPENSION PERIOD.........WE KNOW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR ANNOUNCING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There....its all said now, no need to EVER SAY IT AGAIN

[Takashi]

couldn't have said it better myself quickshifter.

the hostility (overzealousness? come on, let's call a spade a spade...) is ridiculous.

[STFU Tuning]

John,

You did my JIC setup and I love it. One problem though. We've hung out and I never got my DAMN HELL RIDE!!!!

So, when we get a chance, I want the hell ride experience.

Yes, I am a Muller/RRE/JIC fanatic.

[GokuSSJ4]

John,

You did my JIC setup and I love it. One problem though. We've hung out and I never got my DAMN HELL RIDE!!!!

So, when we get a chance, I want the hell ride experience.

Yes, I am a Muller/RRE/JIC fanatic.

join the club
THE MUELLERIZE JIC CLUB :cool:

[fast evo]

How about this... We get a neutral driver to actually test both... John from RRE has his JIC set-up and I have a complete Whiteline set-up. What more can we ask for??? By having a neutral driver we can rule out driver error and actually get some good feedback... Arnie sorry that the guys here are a bit testy...

[STFU Tuning]

John,

You did my JIC setup and I love it. One problem though. We've hung out and I never got my DAMN HELL RIDE!!!!

So, when we get a chance, I want the hell ride experience.

Yes, I am a Muller/RRE/JIC fanatic.

join the club
THE MUELLERIZE JIC CLUB :cool:

LOL, best club I ever joined. The car tracks so beautiful.

[STFU Tuning]

How about this... We get a neutral driver to actually test both... John from RRE has his JIC set-up and I have a complete Whiteline set-up. What more can we ask for??? By having a neutral driver we can rule out driver error and actually get some good feedback... Arnie sorry that the guys here are a bit testy...

I think they should get someone to put some decent times down on the Whitelines before even thinking about calling out the Muller/JIC setup.

BTW, saying that a suspension won't need any tuning off the shelf is rediculous.

[gt40]

If anyone on this forum heres of a new product for the EVO, I would love to hear about it.

The one thing about tuning your car is making sure you know what your getting into....so if you ask me....someone letting the forum know of a new product is only helping us make the right decision. Even if the product sucks, id like to read about it at least, so thanks for the post Arnie

As for the people that speak for RRE....im assuming theres like 50-75 representitives on this site at all times ready to attack......you people need to CALM DOWN....you sound like little kids screaming who's skateboard wheels are better, we all know now that the fastest eoc cars have muellerized JIC setups, and thats cool, infact its what i plan on getting on my car after i sort out some issues......the point is to keep your opinion to yourselves now and let others speak...FOR ONCE

SO LET IT BE KNOWN.......RRE IS GOD.....RRE IS SUSPENSION GOD......RRE IS SUSPENSION PERIOD.........WE KNOW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR ANNOUNCING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There....its all said now, no need to EVER SAY IT AGAIN
_________________

Missed the point completely. A vendor shows up and pitches some product for sale without supporting the site by being a sponsor, coming to events, or participating.

This is completely different than ordinary folks saying: "Hey, check out this new product... " More like kmart going in to Nordtrom and setting up a booth on the showroom floor uninvited.

Join the site, participate, show what these things can do before you start slinging. As to rre, they have earned the support that they garner the hard way, by doing it right, doing it better and charging a fair price. What is wrong with being loyal to that?

Talk is cheap on the other hand...

[Arnie]

If you post a new find with your relevant comments and a general "I've had great experiences with the quality/ride of this company's products in my WRX, here's another option for you Evo owners" it would probably be accepted eagerly.

Knower - thanks! What I quoted above is what I tried to express in my initial post. I'm accustomed to giving as detailed observations as possible in my posts in the hope that more information is usually better. I would hope that it would be up to the reader/fellow consumer to take it with a grain of salt because its not on an Evo. Heck even if it was on an Evo, I would assume any new product would be met with a degree of skepticism.

I try my best not to get in any flame wars, its not very productive. Besides, this is a technical forum and it would be great if we kept it to technical questions and comments, correct?

But one certainly needs to develop a thick skin on this board. :shock:

I agree, a full test of these with comparitive products is definitely in order.

As far as I can tell, I never called out John's setup, other than to acknowledge the overwhelming support it has.

Gt40 - No, I am not a vendor, neither here or on any other board. I'm a car enthusiast, a newb on this board and have found a product that I thought might be intersting for this community judging from my personal experience with it and riding in other Evo's.

Anyway, guys, please, let's try to keep it technical. I'm not here to bash any company and I don't believe I instigated any direct attacks. But thanks anyway for the folks with an open mind.

Darwin - hey man! haven't seen your car at your 76 station in awhile. Is the STi back on the road?

[robi]

He's been EVO assimilated resistance is futile

[gt40]

At this point, I don't think we have anyone like RRE/Mueller to "tune" the coilovers. They're obviously too new. But honestly, I don't think these need as much "tuning" as the JIC's do. The JICs come stock with ridiculous damping and spring rates and from what I've read, RRE, does quite a bit to to try to dial out this harshness ( as well as set them up for proper ride height, basic damper settings and some spring rate changes) for road or track. I think anyone buying the Whitelines can easily come out ahead of most coilover solutions by getting basic ride height, sway bar combos and damping settings straight from Whiteline.

Who is "we"? Sure sounded like you work with them or sell them. Your orginal post looked like an ad to me and other folks. An admin warned you not to sell product very politely without supporting the site because he thought the same thing.

Anyway, just come out to some meets, come out to the track and see for yourself.

[Arnie]

Gt40 - "We" meant "we enthusiasts and local consumers". Sorry if it came across as a unsolicited vendor ad. That wasn't my intent. I'll change the "we" to something else less misleading. Yes, I was contacted by a polite admin and responded just as politely that I was not a vendor.

I would certainly love to check out the various Evo suspensions on track or at a meet as soon as time allows. I'll keep an eye on upcoming meets and events. I really am a big fan of the cars and a huge suspension enthusiast. So I'm very open to learning about what's out there and how well it works under what conditions. I can only hope that the welcome is warmer in person than it is on the boards! ;)

Thanks for the clarification.

[Arnie]

He's been EVO assimilated resistance is futile

:D :twisted: I've actually had Darwin at my house and helped him with his STi (before he blew it up :wink:).

[STFU Tuning]

He's been EVO assimilated resistance is futile

:D :twisted: I've actually had Darwin at my house and helped him with his STi (before he blew it up :wink:).

Holy crap! Is that you Arnie? Hey man.

Okay, all suspension disagreement aside, Arnie is a DAMN COOL GUY!

My STi sits in my garage next to my EVO. The STi is waiting for the motor to get back from Magnus. Should be in the next week or so. I am actually selling my STi. I want to keep the EVO and build a second EVO as a full track car.

Damn man. It's good to hear from you. Last we spoke, you were thinking about moving. My # is in my signature. Give me a call any time. Look for my EVO at the station from time to time.

[Arnie]

Yup, its me! Down in Hollywood now, though I think I actually saw you drive past me one day on Rossmore/Vine and Beverly some months ago. But I'm up in Valencia a few times a week and pass by your shop but I haven't seen your car outside, otherwise I would have popped by.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I hope it might mean something on this board. Perhaps folks can appreciate that I'm not a troll, trying to stir up stuff and that I'm a genuine enthusiast that has a lot of experience to offer.

i'll definitely stop by next time I spot your ride.