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View Full Version : MR Vortex Generator or Cusco Sway bar



The Emperor
12-25-2004, 02:52 PM
i am looking for performance, which is the better buy?

Boosted
12-25-2004, 03:04 PM
Hmmm I vote cusco bar not that either will make any truely drastic and noticeable changes I still vote the sway bar

Macky
12-25-2004, 03:34 PM
/\ i agree

egui42
12-25-2004, 04:08 PM
Sway bar - try the Hotchkis, have heard great things about it and cheaper ($$).

Chris in SD
12-25-2004, 06:41 PM
Hmmm I vote cusco bar not that either will make any truely drastic and noticeable changes I still vote the sway bar

Untrue. Changing the rear antiroll bar will add a lot more tendency toward oversteer (esp. in its highest setting). This is one reason I haven't bought a rear antiroll bar yet. A better bet might be a rear strut brace - same effects, but not as drastic.

trannb
12-25-2004, 07:16 PM
A stiffer rear sway bar will make drastic changes. The Vortex Generator will not. I would vote against a Cusco bar. There are cheaper and stiffer bars to be had. While you're at it, change out the rear trailing arm bushings because your stock ones are probably poo by now.

j_nizzle
12-25-2004, 07:34 PM
im feeling if the two items are the same price i would vote sway bar all the way.

The Emperor
12-26-2004, 03:31 AM
A stiffer rear sway bar will make drastic changes. The Vortex Generator will not. I would vote against a Cusco bar. There are cheaper and stiffer bars to be had. While you're at it, change out the rear trailing arm bushings because your stock ones are probably poo by now.

how much are the trailing arm bushing?

trannb
12-26-2004, 04:03 AM
The Bushings are $25 from Road///Race Engineering.

The Emperor
12-26-2004, 04:10 AM
okai, cusco sway bar is the winner!! only one more problem, which size of the sway bar do i get? Thanks guys !!

CT9A RS
12-26-2004, 06:09 AM
How bout the Perrin 25mm rear adjustable sway bar. Oversteer =Fun. LOL.

-Serge B.

trannb
12-26-2004, 12:59 PM
Don't get the Cusco. You said you wanted performance so your best bet is to not limit yourself to a brand name. To my knowledge the stiffest available bar Cusco has is a 23mm. Why even bother? Perrin makes a 25mm bar and Road///Race carries the Progress 25mm bar. Both have different points of adjustment. Both cost less than the Cusco bar.

The Emperor
12-26-2004, 02:03 PM
alright, is there anything else i need in order to install the RRE sway properly?

turbrodude
12-26-2004, 02:35 PM
Installing the rear sway bar is pretty easy. Just save some money and get the RRE one. If you're skeered of oversteer, don't set it at its stiffest setting right away. Try the middle setting or the weakest setting. Once you're a man, you adjust it to full stiff.

trannb
12-26-2004, 05:36 PM
Just a few wrenches and sockets (and perhaps some cussing) for the bar. I wouldn't do the bushings without a press.

Chris in SD
12-26-2004, 06:08 PM
Anyone else expecting a "Oops, I crashed my Evo" story? Bro, if you don't know what size, etc. for a rear antiroll bar, you shouldn't be doing it. Just my $.02. I don't want my insurance to keep going up.

Macky
12-26-2004, 06:22 PM
Anyone else expecting a "Oops, I crashed my Evo" story? Bro, if you don't know what size, etc. for a rear antiroll bar, you shouldn't be doing it. Just my $.02. I don't want my insurance to keep going up.

that crossed my mind too, but became more obvious now that you mentioned it.

i would now say just get the VG. if you are unsure about the eventual outcome of the handling, it may catch you off guard.

playing with suspension components is an easy way to f*** up the car imho.

SoR
01-27-2005, 11:43 PM
Anyone else expecting a "Oops, I crashed my Evo" story? Bro, if you don't know what size, etc. for a rear antiroll bar, you shouldn't be doing it. Just my $.02. I don't want my insurance to keep going up.

The way I see it is Evo stock understeers so much that by adding an adjustable bar in the back and start with the least stiff setting would help him and not make a drastic change as you say it. He doesn't have to put it to the stiffest hole right away.
I vote get the sway and go auto-x few times to learn how it performs.

G20
01-27-2005, 11:49 PM
.. and I have a blue Cusco sway-bar for sale. $150 take it.

budzik
01-28-2005, 12:04 AM
I have the Perrin, set in the middle setting. Oversteer is not that bad, more neutral.

leaveit2bevo
01-28-2005, 01:23 AM
just go to John Mueller and tell him what you want the car to do
.

jondukes
01-28-2005, 01:26 AM
A stiffer rear sway bar will make drastic changes. The Vortex Generator will not. I would vote against a Cusco bar. There are cheaper and stiffer bars to be had. While you're at it, change out the rear trailing arm bushings because your stock ones are probably poo by now.
ditto

gofaster87
01-28-2005, 01:31 AM
Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

Macky
01-28-2005, 09:58 AM
Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 10:33 AM
...so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

It shouldn't be after the Evo three-way article in the March 2005 issue of Motor Trend. Trust me, I did the ribbon test on all three Evo's, the VG works!

Macky
01-28-2005, 10:43 AM
then thats Good to know. :D funny im subscribed to Motor trend and I haven’t got that magazine yet

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 10:45 AM
then thats Good to know. :D funny im subscribed to Motor trend and I haven’t got that magazine yet

Every Evo owner at the OC meet last night got one. :wink: :D

Wind Racer
01-28-2005, 11:11 AM
Thanks (Evo Neil) for the magazine last night! :D

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2005, 11:37 AM
Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

are you showing off your MR parts again :roll:
If you are interested in making your evo handle alot better, make it go faster at the track then email [email protected] if you want it to make look pretty like Macky and Neil then go with the MR VG.

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

are you showing off your MR parts again :roll:
If you are interested in making your evo handle alot better, make it go faster at the track then email [email protected] if you want it to make look pretty like Macky and Neil then go with the MR VG.

In case you didn't figure this out yourself, you RRE pimp :D , more downforce can also is helpful at the track. :wink:

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 11:45 AM
...if you want it to make look pretty like Macky and Neil then go with the MR VG.

...do I detect a slight bit of jealousy? :roll: Goku, you CAN buy your own VG. I'm pretty sure that Mitsubishi will be happy to sell you one. :lol: :lol:

ultraflip
01-28-2005, 11:49 AM
fight! fight! fight!
$10 bucks on neil!

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2005, 11:51 AM
Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

are you showing off your MR parts again :roll:
If you are interested in making your evo handle alot better, make it go faster at the track then email [email protected] if you want it to make look pretty like Macky and Neil then go with the MR VG.

In case you didn't figure this out yourself, you RRE pimp :D , more downforce can also is helpful at the track. :wink:

Not when you’re dealing with Streets of willow, oh but guess what YOU DON'T TRACK YOUR personal car. (Since I know you have the chance to test other cars for a living) so it defeats the purpose, doesn't it??
Same with Macky, we all know that he will never track the car. He probably would be to busy trying to keep it clean from all the dust around the area
I’m sure once you get into tracks like Big Willow, T-hill which are have more high speeds then you can benefit from Down force. If that’s the case time to get the evo IX rear bumper to have the diffuser, are you buying one also?

gofaster87
01-28-2005, 12:03 PM
You need more downforce in the front of the car. Ill pass on the shark fins.





Go with the RRE sway bar. Its local, its cheap, its effective and installs easy.

so does the VG, although the "effective" part is subject to debate :wink:

are you showing off your MR parts again :roll:
If you are interested in making your evo handle alot better, make it go faster at the track then email [email protected] if you want it to make look pretty like Macky and Neil then go with the MR VG.

In case you didn't figure this out yourself, you RRE pimp :D , more downforce can also is helpful at the track. :wink:

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 12:09 PM
Not when you’re dealing with Streets of willow, oh but guess what YOU DON'T TRACK YOUR personal car.

That shows what you know. a) we performed the test @ 60 mph and the ribbons say differently. b) Click on link and scroll down to track records:
http://www.focuschallenge.com/streets_records.html

Yes, that's right, SOW, stock SVT Focus, both directions and in the wet both times IN MY OWN CAR! Yes, I ran all three Focus Challenge events last year, again in my own car. Open mouth and insert fist! :roll:

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 12:13 PM
You need more downforce in the front of the car. Ill pass on the shark fins.

Maybe you should take the wing off, unless you already own an RS.

gofaster87
01-28-2005, 12:16 PM
You need more downforce in the front of the car. Ill pass on the shark fins.

Maybe you should take the wing off, unless you already own an RS.

The wing has been off for quite some time now.

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2005, 12:29 PM
Not when you’re dealing with Streets of willow, oh but guess what YOU DON'T TRACK YOUR personal car.

That shows what you know. a) we performed the test @ 60 mph and the ribbons say differently. b) Click on link and scroll down to track records:
http://www.focuschallenge.com/streets_records.html

Yes, that's right, SOW, stock SVT Focus, both directions and in the wet both times IN MY OWN CAR! Yes, I ran all three Focus Challenge events last year, again in my own car. Open mouth and insert fist! :roll:

didn't mitsu tested that there was no difference with the VG into you start seeing speeds over 120+
if i remeber correctly, they didn't even notice or didn't see a need for the wing on the RS at low speeds . Once you reach over 120mph+ then down force is need it. An don't worry Neil im not Jealous, just felt like saying some thing thats all !! :P
An we are not talking about SVT focus :roll:

trannb
01-28-2005, 01:02 PM
didn't mitsu tested that there was no difference with the VG into you start seeing speeds over 120+ if i remeber correctly, they didn't even notice or didn't see a need for the wing on the RS at low speeds . Once you reach over 120mph+ then down force is need it.

To clarify, it's not that there was no difference with the VG until 120+, it's that their test was run at ~120mph (I believe they actually tested at 112.5). The results, however, are not totally linear. So it's not half as effective at half the velocity. You're only given one point of data.

Downforce is always desired, at any speed. However, there is always a trade off. Most devices that increase downforce will also increase drag and raise the front-view CG. For lower speeds, the increased downforce is often not worth the weight penalty. Also, we tend not to notice with such heavy cars since 10 pounds of aerodynamic downforce pales in comparison to 2000 pounds of weight over the front wheels (or rear wheels or whatever you're looking at).

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 02:25 PM
Not when you’re dealing with Streets of willow, oh but guess what YOU DON'T TRACK YOUR personal car.


An we are not talking about SVT focus :roll:

Wrong, you said as posted above and I quote, "YOU DON'T TRACK YOUR personal car." I own the SVT Focus, so yes, I do track my personal car, just not my Evo. Wah!

GokuSSJ4
01-28-2005, 02:27 PM
i should of been specific :roll: you don't track the evo :P
who knows how many different cars you have

Chris in SD
01-28-2005, 02:30 PM
Ha ha - Moderator war....

BOVBILLY
01-28-2005, 02:35 PM
HEATED IN HEAR, ISN'T IT.

GOKU IS A TRACK EXPERT.

JUST ASK THE DIRT!

BOVBILLY
01-28-2005, 02:37 PM
i should of been specific :roll: you don't track the evo :P
who knows how many different cars you have

EITHER DOES SAM. BUT THEN AGAIN, YOU AND SAM ARE LOVERS!!!!!














MY NAME IS BILLY. I DON'T TRACK MY CAR.

SoR
01-28-2005, 02:50 PM
So to sum up, VG is useful and creates more downforce thus making teh Evo understeer even more? :shock:

gofaster87
01-28-2005, 03:25 PM
Wow this thread became really large over such a small question. Well its Billys fault so just get the sway bar. Billy youre just jealous that no one has love for your rolling billboard.




i should of been specific :roll: you don't track the evo :P
who knows how many different cars you have

EITHER DOES SAM. BUT THEN AGAIN, YOU AND SAM ARE LOVERS!!!!!


MY NAME IS BILLY. I DON'T TRACK MY CAR.

Macky
01-28-2005, 04:23 PM
Same with Macky, we all know that he will never track the car. He probably would be to busy trying to keep it clean from all the dust around the area

damn straight you got that one right 8)

Macky
01-28-2005, 04:26 PM
So to sum up, VG is useful and creates more downforce thus making teh Evo understeer even more? :shock:

True, but you wont be taking a sharp turn at say 120mph to really worry about understeer now would you? At that speed, any downforce to keep the car stable would be highly welcome ;)

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 04:55 PM
who knows how many different cars you have

Too many! Want to buy one? And no, not my Evo!

EVO Neil
01-28-2005, 05:00 PM
Ha ha - Moderator war....

Goku's just handing out his usual digs, I'm just bouncing them back. It's all good fun. 8)

Boosted
01-28-2005, 05:42 PM
Ha ha - Moderator war....

Goku's just handing out his usual digs, I'm just bouncing them back. It's all good fun. 8)

do I smell another wrestling match?

SoR
01-28-2005, 07:32 PM
So to sum up, VG is useful and creates more downforce thus making teh Evo understeer even more? :shock:

True, but you wont be taking a sharp turn at say 120mph to really worry about understeer now would you? At that speed, any downforce to keep the car stable would be highly welcome ;)

Exactly - I won't and that's why I think a sway bar is more useful if he needs to choose between the 2. I'd vote get both otherwise :lol:

silvery_eagle
01-30-2006, 07:58 PM
sorry for bringing up this thread from hell (that's what happens when people use search anyways)
so, since the VG directs air flow to the wing, and create more downforce to the car... is it still going to give LESS DRAG than an evo without VG?

i thought i read that somewhere but couldn't really find it.

rammsteinmatt
01-30-2006, 08:04 PM
sorry for bringing up this thread from hell (that's what happens when people use search anyways)
so, since the VG directs air flow to the wing, and create more downforce to the car... is it still going to give LESS DRAG than an evo without VG?

i thought i read that somewhere but couldn't really find it.


its difficult to conceptually analyze this. to get a definate answer you must use numbers.

but heres the gist:
the VG will reduce the drag on the vehicle. it also will increase airflow to the rear wing. however more airflow to the wing will create more drag.

eitherway, the difference we are talking is less than say 10 lb of drag. compared to a 3200 lb car, and drag forces in excess of 100lb at 60mph, and these seem rather insignificant.

the VG, is more of a theoretical difference, i highly doubt you could ever feel a difference in the driver's seat

EVO Neil
01-30-2006, 08:52 PM
Matt - how about Mitsubishi's own technical paper on this technology:

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf

I hope you enjoy it. It's a good read. -- Neil

P.S. You could also read our take on it covered in this article. We used a ribbon test to show us just how effective it was.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0503_evos/index.html






sorry for bringing up this thread from hell (that's what happens when people use search anyways)
so, since the VG directs air flow to the wing, and create more downforce to the car... is it still going to give LESS DRAG than an evo without VG?

i thought i read that somewhere but couldn't really find it.


its difficult to conceptually analyze this.* to get a definate answer you must use numbers.

but heres the gist:
the VG will reduce the drag on the vehicle.* it also will increase airflow to the rear wing.* however more airflow to the wing will create more drag.

eitherway, the difference we are talking is less than say 10 lb of drag.* compared to a 3200 lb car, and drag forces in excess of 100lb at 60mph, and these seem rather insignificant.

the VG, is more of a theoretical difference, i highly doubt you could ever feel a difference in the driver's seat