Dr. Gray Stage 1+ dynoed - 348 awhp 345 torque

[Blak94GSX]

Some of you may know that I bought a White EVO MR. Â*I put all of the "Dr. Gray Stage 1"+ or "Road Race Engineering Stage Eleventy Billion" mods on it.

I was out at GT Motorsports last night dyno tuning cars and at the end we threw my EVO on the dyno just to see what it was making for power. Â*On the first pull it made 345awhp and 345 torque, all the pulls were within a couple HP and torque each time, with the best pulls being 348awhp and 345 torque.

The mods in the RRE Stage Eleventy Billion include the following:

-HKS 272 cams

-Walbro direct replacement fuel pump

-APEXi SAFC

-Denso 720cc injectors

-turbo back exhaust system of your choice (I have the Works dowpipe, RRE rally cat, Greddy Titanium catback)

-Dejon Tool manual boost controller

Everything is from Road Race Engineering, and they did the installation and setup. Â*I just turn the knobs..

Everything else on the car is stock, stock airbox, stock air filter, stock clutch, stock bov, stock ic, stock ic piping, stock plugs, stock plug wires, stock fuel rail, no grounding kit, etc.

For tuning I have the Pocketlogger and the Zeitronix ZT2 to display boost, EGT and O2. Â*The boost is set to 22PSI peak and then dropping down to 18ish at 7500 RPM on Costco premium fuel (only the best Â*:p)

Under the hood:

http://www.blak94gsx.com/pics/evomr/DCP_2740.JPG


Interior dash:

http://www.blak94gsx.com/pics/evomr/DCP_2822.JPG


This is the best overall powerband pull, although it doesn't have the best peak numbers:

[Skiracer]

Sweet! Hmmm... I want!

[alex_alex]

great numbers.

what makes the numbers on your evo higher than all the other dr. gray stage 1+'s ?

[Absinthe]

Goku how do those numbers make you feel?

[alex_alex]

does the different gearing have anything to do with it (not exactly sure how the dyno works)

[Absinthe]

I suppose now the thread is all serious, dyno type? afr? correction factor? and why other than the 10.5 do you have 30 more whp than Tom who has a front mount?

[beavis4g63t]

???????????????????????????????

[GokuSSJ4]

having the new 10.5 housing (since its an MR ) helps top end as well as running dual 272/272's
People have seen great results from that set up, which is my next step either 10.5 hot site or TME or purchasing a use MR turbo (if anyone wants to sell one PM me)
perfect combination for Streets of Willow

[GokuSSJ4]

I suppose now the thread is all serious, dyno type? afr? correction factor? and why other than the 10.5 do you have 30 more whp than Tom who has a front mount?
probably since he is the one tuning his own car :P He can dedicate more time to it. Remember the current set up that i have can see abit more power with abit more of tuning (still keeping it conservative for Road race) Even Scot mention it, leaning out a bit the top end will give you abit more HP. I'm sure with out the 10.5 housing the car can see near 320-325whp. Damn it , i need some ARP head studs as well :cry:

[Blak94GSX]

It is a dynojet awd dyno. Gearing doesn't really matter since the dyno works on inertia. It calculates power output by seeing how quickly the dyno rollers increase in rpm.

The key is that i have the HKS 272 cams which most other stage eleventy billion cars do not, or they have some funky ECU flash which causes problems. My car has a virgin ECU.

yeah it is mostly tuning. If I charged for the same level of tuning it would cost $5000 and then nobody would want it...

[moogle]

that's some awesome # for costco gas.

[alex_alex]

It is a dynojet awd dyno. Gearing doesn't really matter since the dyno works on inertia. It calculates power output by seeing how quickly the dyno rollers increase in rpm.

The key is that i have the HKS 272 cams which most other stage eleventy billion cars do not, or they have some funky ECU flash which causes problems. My car has a virgin ECU.

Scot, help me out b/c i dont know much about this, but if the dyno calculates power by seeing how quickly the rollers increase in rpm, that sounds like the more torque you have, the faster the rollers will move.

assuming (perhaps incorrectly, please chime in) that torque varies with gear ratio, and lower gears (higher ratio) put out more torque, wouldn't the shorter gearing in the MR put down more torque solely as a function of the gearing?

Everything else being equal, a regular evo and an MR on a third gear pull would show different numbers wouldn't it?

[GokuSSJ4]

It is a dynojet awd dyno. Gearing doesn't really matter since the dyno works on inertia. It calculates power output by seeing how quickly the dyno rollers increase in rpm.

The key is that i have the HKS 272 cams which most other stage eleventy billion cars do not, or they have some funky ECU flash which causes problems. My car has a virgin ECU.

yeah it is mostly tuning. If I charged for the same level of tuning it would cost $5000 and then nobody would want it...
BAH !!!!
you should of told me of the Dr. Gray stage threadment plan: :P

stage 1+ $$$
stage 1++ $$$$
stage 1+++ $$$$$
giving the customer the option to how detail the tune can be...

[Blak94GSX]

The gearing isn't supposed to have any real impact on the power at the dyno rollers, but yes there is probably some difference. As a disclaimer, my car was dynoed in 3rd gear.

The tradeoff of gearing is spool vs heatsoak I would guess. A higher gear will spool the turbo sooner, and hold the boost better at the top end, but because the pull takes longer, there is more chance of IC heatsoaking. If it wasn't 3AM and I was a little more coherent at the time I would have tried 4th gear as well.

[alex_alex]

The gearing isn't supposed to have any real impact on the power at the dyno rollers, but yes there is probably some difference. As a disclaimer, my car was dynoed in 3rd gear.

The tradeoff of gearing is spool vs heatsoak I would guess. A higher gear will spool the turbo sooner, and hold the boost better at the top end, but because the pull takes longer, there is more chance of IC heatsoaking. If it wasn't 3AM and I was a little more coherent at the time I would have tried 4th gear as well.

thanks for all the info.

what is it that makes turbos boost sooner when there is more load?

[Blak94GSX]

More load on the motor means higher exhaust pressure to push on the turbo exhaust wheel to spool it up or keep it spooled.

[alex_alex]

More load on the motor means higher exhaust pressure to push on the turbo exhaust wheel to spool it up or keep it spooled.

so your turbo tapers too, it sounds like.

you always hear the bunk on the forums about their shit holding at 21psi till redline in every gear. :lol:

[Blak94GSX]

I don't see how it can't taper off at 7000+ unless you just don't look at the boost gauge after 5000 RPM :p

[alex_alex]

I don't see how it can't taper off at 7000+ unless you just don't look at the boost gauge after 5000 RPM :p

thats what i figured.

[tama_mog]

pimpness, I am jealous =)

[kimletrim]

Those are the kind of number I aspire for. Nice car!!! :wink:

[EvoRution]

I figured you had picked up that mystery MR.. so you ditch the galant?

[Blak94GSX]

It was the right color, and a good deal, so I went for it. The Galant is sold. I think of the EVO as a smaller, noisier, harder to drive replacement for my Galant, that gets worse gas mileage and attracts every cop within radio range. Other than that, it's great! :p

[leaveit2bevo]

thats ownage, I need a virgin ecu :(

[kimletrim]

attracts every cop within radio range... relax that is a figment of your imagination. If you don't believe me, just ask the previous owner of that car.

[Blak94GSX]

I already got a ticket... :(

But yeah, I asked Eric why he was selling it and he says "I got pulled over 25 times in it". So I laughed, thinking that was a pretty funny joke... haha, but the joke was on me because he was actually being serious!

[Skiracer]

Its a jinxed car!

[Blaze]

Its a jinxed car!

Sounds like it.
Anyone want to trade with him? :wink:

[WavMixer]

I have the same setup on my 05 GSR minus the cams. I will be dynoing my car at the Rim of the World Rally on Friday & I will post my numbers also. Scot tuned my car, but I doubt he spent as much time on mine as he did his own. I did bribe him with BBQ, so I know he did me right ;)

[Blak94GSX]

Dr. Gray Stage 1+ with BBQ option pack...

[kimletrim]

I'm in the market for a Dr. Gray package. Do you offer them in the soy sauce option pack? :wink:

[WNLancer]

i hope I get the same numbers when Scot tunes my car this friday

[Blak94GSX]

No but I do offer a hot asian sister package... :p

[kaisho99]

awesome numbers..:crazyeyes: ..grats!!

[WavMixer]

Well kim, do you have a hot sister? 8)

[kimletrim]

No but I do offer a hot asian sister package... :p

damn, Scott, sounds like you inherited more than Eric's car. now you've got the cops attention and your sounding like Eric too! LOL

Had I known, you offered such a package, my Evo would be pushing 500 whp right now!

[Blak94GSX]

Shizzam... I'm sure we can work out some kind of barter system :p

If your avatar is a picture of your sister, you can run 9s no problem 8)

[trinydex]

I suppose now the thread is all serious, dyno type? afr? correction factor? and why other than the 10.5 do you have 30 more whp than Tom who has a front mount?

because tomas shouldn't have that top mount :].

hey hey dr. gray... you forgot your rice mods... i heard a lil intercoolie chillie chillie HAHAHA.

oh and tomas... WAIT on the turbo... just a lil while longer and get the evo9... has revised comp side with a bigger nozzle. dunno if it's cheaper to get the hot side now and the comp side later or waht... but just lettin' yah know.

[Blak94GSX]

Yeah I took that NX nitrous IC sprayer thing off. It was killing me to have it on there... Especially since it wasn't even hooked up.

Man what a pain in the ass to remove it...

Oh yeah, I posted the dynoplot on the first page

[EvoRution]

Quick question .. is that 348-just-need-it-to-hold-together-while-i-click-the-afc-one-more-time-dyno hp, or 348 hotlapping at the track hp without vaporizing a valve hp?

I've been meaning to enlist your services as of late. You never did tune my gsx back in the day. :(

[trinydex]

that reminds me that i need to remove my intercooler sprayer... and replace that stupid button with an alarm light or something even more lame like that.

is it hard to remove the intercooler spray bottle... i kept looking and i just couldn't figure it out.

i remember back in my dsm trolling days... i thot dr gray's black gsx was SOOO cool cuz it had an intercooler sprayer that he made himself :]

[Blak94GSX]

Quick question .. is that 348-just-need-it-to-hold-together-while-i-click-the-afc-one-more-time-dyno hp, or 348 hotlapping at the track hp without vaporizing a valve hp?

I've been meaning to enlist your services as of late. You never did tune my gsx back in the day. :(

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't tune a customer car this way :p

There is more in it, if I was going for higher peak numbers, but this is about the limit for the mods on straight 91 octane without totally destroying the powerband or the pistons.

I wouldn't run it this way on the Cal Speedway ALMS course in 109F heat on straight 91 octane. Is fine for the occasional freeway romp or street race against the local blown mustang on drag radials.

[dlieu959]

Quick question .. is that 348-just-need-it-to-hold-together-while-i-click-the-afc-one-more-time-dyno hp, or 348 hotlapping at the track hp without vaporizing a valve hp?

I've been meaning to enlist your services as of late. You never did tune my gsx back in the day. :(

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't tune a customer car this way :p

There is more in it, if I was going for higher peak numbers, but this is about the limit for the mods on straight 91 octane without totally destroying the powerband or the pistons.

I wouldn't run it this way on the Cal Speedway ALMS course in 109F heat on straight 91 octane. Is fine for the occasional freeway romp or street race against the local blown mustang on drag radials.

can't imagine what kind of tune you could produce on race gas :shock:
so this is the "my own car tune, not customer friendly tune?" :wink:

[Blak94GSX]

Well I try really hard not to blow up cars whenever possible. Have to leave a little bit of power on the table in order to ensure that in the worst of conditions the engine will remain in one piece.

This is one of those "do as I say, not as I do" situations...

[EvoRution]

Yeah.. you should tell Roy that. Every time he tuned my GSX it would run great but be on the ragged edge.. and thats why I never ran 12s.. sigh..

how much goes gtpro charge for dyno time?


Well I try really hard not to blow up cars whenever possible. Have to leave a little bit of power on the table in order to ensure that in the worst of conditions the engine will remain in one piece.

This is one of those "do as I say, not as I do" situations...

[dlieu959]

Well I try really hard not to blow up cars whenever possible. Have to leave a little bit of power on the table in order to ensure that in the worst of conditions the engine will remain in one piece.

This is one of those "do as I say, not as I do" situations...

hahaha... that's nicely put. You mainly do "on the street" tunes or dyno?

[Blak94GSX]

I played with the ECU and just made things much worse, so stock seemed to be happiest.

Then I played with the boost levels and fuel ratio to find the happy spot between too rich or too much boost. I was running up to 24PSI in spots but the powerband was poop.

Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.

Ultimately, my car seems to like the stock ecu, and the stock airbox with the filter in it. I didn't try any other intake setups on it, but I'm happy with the way it is running right now, and I want it to look as stock as possible with the hood up.

[EvoPwr]

those numbers are way too nice :lol:

[Blak94GSX]

Was there a reason why I didn't tune your DSM or we just never hooked up? I have a bad memory. Maybe your sister was ugly :p

Not sure what GT Motorsports charges for dyno time, but you could call them.

You don't need to tune on a dyno with an AFC. In fact it is better to tune it on the street since the load is different. Then if you want a pretty dynosheet to show off to your poopra buddies, you can go to a dyno place and do a few pulls and maybe some minor tweaks to the tuning and boost.

Some places offer dyno time and AFC tuning together for a reasonable price. That includes the use of a wideband sensor which can make things easier. It is all a matter of what your budget is and how much of it you want to do yourself.

[Absinthe]

Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



Given this you would you say an intake would be less than optimal on a mildly modded car like yours?

[EvoPwr]

Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



Given this you would you say an intake would be less than optimal on a mildly modded car like yours?

BWAHAHAHA

[trinydex]

Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



Given this you would you say an intake would be less than optimal on a mildly modded car like yours?

BWAHAHAHA

this sounds aweful darkside.... dr gray... please pull this one outta the black hole...

[Blak94GSX]

Well I said I didn't try any other intake setups :p

The car came with the ARC airbox and it is a really nice piece. Car felt and sounded faster with it on, but I never dynoed with it so I don't know.

I've always maintained though that the stock airbox setup isn't a major restriction when just running reasonable boost levels on pump gas with the stock turbo.

[Skiracer]

How about this open lid intake with the Dr. Gray setup?
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album264/107_0730_IMG.sized.jpg

[GokuSSJ4]

Dr. Gray Stage 1+ with BBQ option pack...
BAH !!! i need to bring you some asian girls and in n out , so i can see near 350whp with what i have :P

[Blak94GSX]

Don't everybody panic and throw out your ABC intakes! I'm sure if the engine can suck air through it, it will work just fine.

Heh I'm just a boost junky like the rest of you, not some omnipotent infallible tuner god. I'm just relaying what I saw on my car. I need to be more careful I guess...

[GokuSSJ4]

Don't everybody panic and throw out your ABC intakes! I'm sure if the engine can suck air through it, it will work just fine.

Heh I'm just a boost junky like the rest of you, not some omnipotent infallible tuner god. I'm just relaying what I saw on my car. I need to be more careful I guess...
no more tuning for you !!!!
lol IMO people are still experimenting with what makes a good set up (and not purchase useless mods) i guess abit of the DSM way. So you know you will get this question to what works and what doesn't work. Especially with the experience that you have tuning cars. IMO like buschur did, some one needs to step up and start tuning and showing dyno #'s with what works and what doesn't. I think we need to dyno again scot , and this time abit more tuning involve (maybe even the stock box :P ) before i change other parts that will make a difference (#'s wise)

[Skiracer]

Goku, just bribe him with a Jamba Juice smoothie.

[EvoPwr]

Goku, just bribe him with a Jamba Juice smoothie.

mmmm smoothies :drool:

[GokuSSJ4]

i want to achieve more power not less :P

[Absinthe]

Don't everybody panic and throw out your ABC intakes! I'm sure if the engine can suck air through it, it will work just fine.

Heh I'm just a boost junky like the rest of you, not some omnipotent infallible tuner god. I'm just relaying what I saw on my car. I need to be more careful I guess...
no more tuning for you !!!!
lol IMO people are still experimenting with what makes a good set up (and not purchase useless mods) i guess abit of the DSM way. So you know you will get this question to what works and what doesn't work. Especially with the experience that you have tuning cars. IMO like buschur did, some one needs to step up and start tuning and showing dyno #'s with what works and what doesn't. I think we need to dyno again scot , and this time abit more tuning involve (maybe even the stock box :P ) before i change other parts that will make a difference (#'s wise)

Pull your intake and get a K&N for the stock box first, I think Todd should do the same as well. See where that gets you #'s wise, After that talk with works about flashing back to stock, then sell your intake and use the money for getting drunk and causing trouble at clubs.

[EvoRution]

here's a refresher (you'll understand when you see the pics. my car was cursed)

http://www.talismanmobile.com/pixures/gsx2/index.html



Was there a reason why I didn't tune your DSM or we just never hooked up? I have a bad memory. Maybe your sister was ugly :p

Not sure what GT Motorsports charges for dyno time, but you could call them.

You don't need to tune on a dyno with an AFC. In fact it is better to tune it on the street since the load is different. Then if you want a pretty dynosheet to show off to your poopra buddies, you can go to a dyno place and do a few pulls and maybe some minor tweaks to the tuning and boost.

Some places offer dyno time and AFC tuning together for a reasonable price. That includes the use of a wideband sensor which can make things easier. It is all a matter of what your budget is and how much of it you want to do yourself.[/url]

[leaveit2bevo]

I have a really hard time believing gokus burshur intake is costing him power, maybe the flash but not the intake.

[GokuSSJ4]

i don't think the intake is taking away or causing for the car to loose any power. but in order to run the stock box, i have to find a way to modify it. Besides that or run the Dejon intake w/ the box (which i need to buy it from todd)

[8-AGAIN]

I dont know about the intake but the high flow cat is hurting your power for sure.....With the RRE rallycat and 10.5 housing(scot has both)you would be alot closer to his numbers........

[GokuSSJ4]

I dont know about the intake but the high flow cat is hurting your power for sure.....With the RRE rallycat and 10.5 housing(scot has both)you would be alot closer to his numbers........
BAH !!!! Scot is cheating , that explains alot.
Some peeps have seen between 12-15whp from a ralli cat (properly tune) and the 10.5 hotside (or MR turbo) makes up a big chunk as well. then again he has spend alot of time tuning his own set up (which helps the most)

[WavMixer]

I dont know about the intake but the high flow cat is hurting your power for sure.....With the RRE rallycat and 10.5 housing(scot has both)you would be alot closer to his numbers........
BAH !!!! Scot is cheating , that explains alot.
Some peeps have seen between 12-15whp from a ralli cat (properly tune) and the 10.5 hotside (or MR turbo) makes up a big chunk as well. then again he has spend alot of time tuning his own set up (which helps the most)Is there a difference between the MR turbo and a RS or GSR turbo?

[GokuSSJ4]

there is no difference in the 05's, remember some peeps have 03's . Which is a different hotside. you compare 9.8 vs 10.5 which the bigger hot side will give you a bit more mid range and top end. On the 04 models some have 9.8 while some other ones have the 10.5 hotside (the only difference)

[Absinthe]

I have a really hard time believing gokus burshur intake is costing him power, maybe the flash but not the intake.



Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



granted this is anecdotal evidence at best but given the fact the Scot experienced this, and You, Todd, and Goku all have had pissed of ECU issues. The fact that Pete at Works has had a hard time enginering an intake, and Shivladen doesnt like them perhaps this is one part that doesnt translate from a DSM given stock ecu/mild mod set ups?

[WavMixer]

there is no difference in the 05's, remember some peeps have 03's . Which is a different hotside. you compare 9.8 vs 10.5 which the bigger hot side will give you a bit more mid range and top end. On the 04 models some have 9.8 while some other ones have the 10.5 hotside (the only difference)That's what I was thinking. It threw me for a loop citing the car as being an MR as opposed to being an 05.

[leaveit2bevo]

I have a really hard time believing gokus burshur intake is costing him power, maybe the flash but not the intake.



Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



granted this is anecdotal evidence at best but given the fact the Scot experienced this, and You, Todd, and Goku all have had pissed of ECU issues. The fact that Pete at Works has had a hard time enginering an intake, and Shivladen doesnt like them perhaps this is one part that doesnt translate from a DSM given stock ecu/mild mod set ups?

Blah im sucking in more cold air bitches! Scot why would the intake piss off the ecu? is it because it has a lot more air flow and the maf is pissed off?

[turbolarry]

Ultimately, my car seems to like the stock ecu, and the stock airbox with the filter in it.

So what kinda numbers was your "happy" ECU putting out (if you don't mind me asking)? RPM's, TMA, and O2 values... :D
Would you mind posting one of your final logs?
Cam gears? If so any advance/retard?
:D

[WavMixer]

Dr. Gray Stage 1+ with BBQ option pack...
BAH !!! i need to bring you some asian girls and in n out , so i can see near 350whp with what i have :P
Secret recipe to Dr. Gray's Tuning power:
Massive quantities of carne asada
cooler full of Coke
hot asian sister

Should be good for 400whp or 300whp without hot asian sister.

[leaveit2bevo]

Ultimately, my car seems to like the stock ecu, and the stock airbox with the filter in it.

So what kinda numbers was your "happy" ECU putting out (if you don't mind me asking)? RPM's, TMA, and O2 values... :D
Would you mind posting one of your final logs?
Cam gears? If so any advance/retard?
:D

his ecu is cooler than mine he is able to hit 0 stft at idle and his ecu is giving 28 degrees at like 7000rpm mine is like18

[turbolarry]

his ecu is cooler than mine he is able to hit 0 stft at idle and his ecu is giving 28 degrees at like 7000rpm mine is like18

Ooo... god damn, 28 degrees @ 7000! :shock:
I know you pull out alot for the 720's, but damn Gina.
My peak so far has been 21, but I could squeeze a little more out of the 650's.

[Blak94GSX]

Yeah I am cheating because I have an 05 MR... The sharkfins and aluminum shift knob are worth at least 20 HP!

I will attach all of the pocketlogger logs and zeitronix logs. There are no secrets.

[Blak94GSX]

The log files are located here:

http://www.blak94gsx.com/xfer

[trinydex]

more timing advance it possible with the 10.5 because as buschur speculated the 10.5 reduces detonation at mid to higher rpms so you can TUNE lots more power outta it. just slappin' it on you get marginal benefits.

the timing advance is the key there... at least i think... but then again... that's a wee dangerous...

[leaveit2bevo]

how does the 10.5 reduce det?

[trinydex]

reduced back pressure.

[STFU Tuning]

I have a really hard time believing gokus burshur intake is costing him power, maybe the flash but not the intake.



Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



granted this is anecdotal evidence at best but given the fact the Scot experienced this, and You, Todd, and Goku all have had pissed of ECU issues. The fact that Pete at Works has had a hard time enginering an intake, and Shivladen doesnt like them perhaps this is one part that doesnt translate from a DSM given stock ecu/mild mod set ups?

Blah im sucking in more cold air bitches! Scot why would the intake piss off the ecu? is it because it has a lot more air flow and the maf is pissed off?

Yes, you are sucking in more cold air, which is then being super heated back to the same temps as anyone else by the compressor housing. So I hate to break it to you again, but it does nothing. Turbocharged cars are cooled by intercoolers.

It is not about your airflow exceeding a certain amount. MAF sensors are sensitive to all sorts of stuff, turbulance being a big cause.

[trinydex]

.... i dunno if i wanna say anything....

but cold air is better than hot air... mainly because when cold air is induced, the compression at a given psi will hold more oxygen molecules than if the induced air were hot.

it's not about the air staying cold... it's about how much oxygen density there is in the initial air. cold air more dense.

if we illustrate this rather bluntly, take your turbo to be a step up pressure maker. it will take a certain pressure (gas in this case) and step up that pressure (by reducing the volume) it will at any given time step up the pressure the same amount (rpm/load/etc).

in this scenario since all the other factors are the same except for the input air temp... then the colder air will hold more oxygen per cubic whatever. and will come out at the same pressure as the hot air but with more oxygen per cubic whatever.

this is also mainly due to the caveat that hot air resists compresion more.

on a cold day you run more lean (you can't deny that right :])

[STFU Tuning]

As a practical matter, I had a cold air intake made for my setup and logged ambient vs ait post IC. Know what I found between the cai and the short ram? No difference in ait and no difference in power.

Hmmm....

[GokuSSJ4]

Yeah I am cheating because I have an 05 MR... The sharkfins and aluminum shift knob are worth at least 20 HP!

I will attach all of the pocketlogger logs and zeitronix logs. There are no secrets.
i know theres no secrets behind it, its all in the tune. I'm so jealous :(

[trinydex]

As a practical matter, I had a cold air intake made for my setup and logged ambient vs ait post IC. Know what I found between the cai and the short ram? No difference in ait and no difference in power.

Hmmm....




it's not about the air staying cold... it's about how much oxygen density there is in the initial air.



the temp will definitely be the same... but the density... can you measure that? and if there is no difference in power... did you tune for the cai? cuz the power should be found in tuning here... but we're just splitting hairs...

[leaveit2bevo]

were just beating a dead horse with the whole cold air thing.

[turbolarry]

more timing advance it possible with the 10.5 because as buschur speculated the 10.5 reduces detonation at mid to higher rpms so you can TUNE lots more power outta it. just slappin' it on you get marginal benefits.

the timing advance is the key there... at least i think... but then again... that's a wee dangerous...

The timing advance has more to do with the 720's then the exhaust housing. The ECU is seeing at least 25% less air with the AFC, and the less air the ECU sees, the more it will advance timing and lower the chance of boost cut.
Ahh... the benifits of AFC's and bigger injectors. :D

Blak94GSX,
Thanks for the logs, but I can't open them directly. I'm going to try and save them, hotsync them, then try and veiw them on my palm. The only problem is that I've got palm'n'stein and it might not work.

[moogle]

I have a really hard time believing gokus burshur intake is costing him power, maybe the flash but not the intake.



Then I tried to make it breathe better and took the lid and filter out of the airbox. That leaned it out a LOT, so I adjusted the AFC to compensate but that just pissed off the ECU for some reason.



granted this is anecdotal evidence at best but given the fact the Scot experienced this, and You, Todd, and Goku all have had pissed of ECU issues. The fact that Pete at Works has had a hard time enginering an intake, and Shivladen doesnt like them perhaps this is one part that doesnt translate from a DSM given stock ecu/mild mod set ups?

Blah im sucking in more cold air bitches! Scot why would the intake piss off the ecu? is it because it has a lot more air flow and the maf is pissed off?

oh no, not the cold air thing again. :wink:

[leaveit2bevo]

more timing advance it possible with the 10.5 because as buschur speculated the 10.5 reduces detonation at mid to higher rpms so you can TUNE lots more power outta it. just slappin' it on you get marginal benefits.

the timing advance is the key there... at least i think... but then again... that's a wee dangerous...

The timing advance has more to do with the 720's then the exhaust housing. The ECU is seeing at least 25% less air with the AFC, and the less air the ECU sees, the more it will advance timing and lower the chance of boost cut.
Ahh... the benifits of AFC's and bigger injectors. :D

Blak94GSX,
Thanks for the logs, but I can't open them directly. I'm going to try and save them, hotsync them, then try and veiw them on my palm. The only problem is that I've got palm'n'stein and it might not work.

you can download the plviewer and see them on your comp, sorry I dont know where I found the link I think it was on the pocketlogger website.

[trinydex]

more timing advance it possible with the 10.5 because as buschur speculated the 10.5 reduces detonation at mid to higher rpms so you can TUNE lots more power outta it. just slappin' it on you get marginal benefits.

the timing advance is the key there... at least i think... but then again... that's a wee dangerous...

The timing advance has more to do with the 720's then the exhaust housing. The ECU is seeing at least 25% less air with the AFC, and the less air the ECU sees, the more it will advance timing and lower the chance of boost cut.
Ahh... the benifits of AFC's and bigger injectors. :D

Blak94GSX,
Thanks for the logs, but I can't open them directly. I'm going to try and save them, hotsync them, then try and veiw them on my palm. The only problem is that I've got palm'n'stein and it might not work.

it's true that the timing advance is from the injectors but injectors aren't gonna give any timing if the ecu pulls it away because it senses knock. the housing will keep that knock away so you can enjoy your advance.

[05-EVO-GSR]

On the 04 models some have 9.8 while some other ones have the 10.5 hotside (the only difference)


This is wrong information. All 2003's and All 2004's have a 9.8 hotside. All 2005's (RS, VIII, MR Edition) have the 10.5 hotside. The USDM MR Edition does not have a "special" turbo.

[alex_alex]

On the 04 models some have 9.8 while some other ones have the 10.5 hotside (the only difference)


This is wrong information. All 2003's and All 2004's have a 9.8 hotside. .

actually, im pretty sure he's right and you're wrong on this one. from what ive heard, some of the 2004's had the 10.5 hotside

[Absinthe]

Correct alex its the later production cars I blieve it starts around sept or oct 04.

[05-EVO-GSR]

You can drag a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

teke it easy killer, hes right, i worked for mitsu and i saw the delivery sheets each time we got an evo in, and thats when i bought mine, in november cuz i noticed that the last couple deliveries of 04s we got had the 10.5 hotside so i jumped on it and paid less for it too. anyhow, its only the last two months of 04 that they were putting out the 10.5.

[beavis4g63t]

nevermind that i checked the part numbers and there are late 04's that have the bigger hot side and i also have dynoed one. i can refer you to the largest mitsu parts dealer in the country if you want to check for yourself.

[Skiracer]

Hmm...i got my car in July '04. How can i verify if i have the 10.5" hotside or not?

[WavMixer]

Hmm...i got my car in July '04. How can i verify if i have the 10.5" hotside or not?


... its only the last two months of 04 that they were putting out the 10.5.

If your car had a production date of November or December, you would be in like Flint. Unfortunatly for you, there is no way you could have a November or December production date if you received your car in July. That is unless mitsu also makes time machines ;)

[Skiracer]

How do i find the production date of my car?

[WavMixer]

How do i find the production date of my car?Look inside the driver's door jam where you will find a tag with the VIN.

[WavMixer]

Not much use in checking though, if you bought your car in July of 2004, Mitsu had not yet started to put the 10.5 into production for 4 more months.

[alex_alex]

On the 04 models some have 9.8 while some other ones have the 10.5 hotside (the only difference)


This is wrong information. All 2003's and All 2004's have a 9.8 hotside. All 2005's (RS, VIII, MR Edition) have the 10.5 hotside. The USDM MR Edition does not have a "special" turbo.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/album333/stallowned.jpg

[lagcisco]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but would having the Dr Gray Stage 1+ be in violation of my warranty?

if it is, what parts would I need to remove in order to have my warranty intact?

[Knower]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but would having the Dr Gray Stage 1+ be in violation of my warranty?

if it is, what parts would I need to remove in order to have my warranty intact?

Generally any modification that is not CARB approved is illegal and could potentially void your warranty. You must use your own judgement when modifying your vehicle. Your warranty is initially worth only as much as the dealership who services you. The more you modify your car, the more likely your warranty could be voided. That said, a well modified car, such as one that follows the Dr. Gray Stage 1+/RRE stage elevntybillion shouldn't have major warranty issues if maintained properly and driven without reckless abandon.

[trinydex]

some carb certified stuff will void your warantee...

[Blak94GSX]

Warranty is VERY subjective, and largely up to the dealer. There are plenty of dealers that will void the warranty on a completely factory vehicle, and there are a few dealers that will honor the warranty if you have a few modifications like an exhaust system and gauges.

For the most part, with Mitsubishis, assume they won't honor the warranty... This is one of the fundamental problems that Mitsubishi must overcome before their cars will have resale values on-par with say a Ford or Chevy, and not be rated as one of the worst manufacturers for customer service and cost of ownership.

Good cars, bad dealers...

Best to research which dealers in your area have a good track record with providing service before you need it.

[trinydex]

This is one of the fundamental problems that Mitsubishi must overcome before their cars will have resale values on-par with say a Ford or Chevy,

gotta love this HAHHAHAHA

[Skiracer]

Goku, put this in the FAQ section and stickie it!

[thugline]

* That sounds kind of high. It's probably cuz you put it on a dynojet. If you are using race gas I believe it. You probably only have 305 to 310whp. If you put that on a dynamic test systems dyno, thats probably what your out come would be. ;)

[GokuSSJ4]

That sounds kind of high. It's probably cuz you put it on a dynojet. If you are using race gas I believe it. You probably only have 305 to 310whp. If you put that on a dynamic test systems dyno, thats probably what your out come would be. ;)

it was mention before, this was done on a Dyno Jet. I know alot of folks are showing #'s either on a DD or Mustang dyno which read lower that a DJ. But its a # that most of us can relate too, since a lot of folks have dyno at TT which is also a Dyno jet

[kimletrim]

Yes, those numbers are high but they are a accurate testament to how well Dr. Gray street tunes his cars! Don't believe the hype...drive the car and you will see.

[Skiracer]

* That sounds kind of high. It's probably cuz you put it on a dynojet. If you are using race gas I believe it. You probably only have 305 to 310whp. If you put that on a dynamic test systems dyno, thats probably what your out come would be. ;)


Dr Gray's other car puts out 450WHP on 91 pump gas O0

[Blak94GSX]

I always say Dyno numbers are irrelevant anyway. It doesn't matter if a car makes 250awhp or 350awhp on a dyno, provided it runs good off of the dyno. The last thing we want is to turn into a bunch of dyno racers like the Supra crowd.

On the other hand, we are fortunate to have a few good dynos of similar type in SoCal to use for comparison. It is nice to have as another point of reference. The only advantage the dyno provides over real world numbers is that it takes the driver out of the equation completely, provided the conditions for the dyno run are stated accurately.

[trinydex]

I always say Dyno numbers are irrelevant anyway. It doesn't matter if a car makes 250awhp or 350awhp on a dyno, provided it runs good off of the dyno. The last thing we want is to turn into a bunch of dyno racers like the Supra crowd.

On the other hand, we are fortunate to have a few good dynos of similar type in SoCal to use for comparison. It is nice to have as another point of reference. The only advantage the dyno provides over real world numbers is that it takes the driver out of the equation completely, provided the conditions for the dyno run are stated accurately.

word i hate dynos

[Strider]

A couple of interesting articles on dyno's:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/9907scc_technobabble/

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=8020&page_number=1

[Tarmac02]

Using a dyno as a unit of measurement like some people do is conplete BS. A dyno is in reality nothing more than a tuning tool. Comparing dyno charts and dyno claims from dyno to dyno is like all of us whipping out our dicks and measuring them rulers that all say 12 inches.

l_______________l 12in

l___l 12in

l_________l 12in

l__________________________________l 12in

[ultraflip]

well said tarmac

[htsai14752]

ditto

[yellowevov111]

That is some really good power.

[gen4k20a2]

Warranty is VERY subjective, and largely up to the dealer. *There are plenty of dealers that will void the warranty on a completely factory vehicle, and there are a few dealers that will honor the warranty if you have a few modifications like an exhaust system and gauges.

For the most part, with Mitsubishis, assume they won't honor the warranty... *This is one of the fundamental problems that Mitsubishi must overcome before their cars will have resale values on-par with say a Ford or Chevy, and not be rated as one of the worst manufacturers for customer service and cost of ownership.

Good cars, bad dealers...

Best to research which dealers in your area have a good track record with providing service before you need it.



with HB mitsu will i have to worry about not being warrantied with a stock setup?

[kipper215]

I have to say I am very happy with my DR.GRAY street tune. I do have a question for you scott. Do you recommend I use a dyno to fine tune or does it not make a difference

[ultraflip]

I have to say I am very happy with my DR.GRAY street tune. I do have a question for you scott. Do you recommend I use a dyno to fine tune or does it not make a difference


doesn't really make tooo much of a difference... i had my car street tuned... then i went on a dyno run... it was so close to perfection it was insane... a click here and a click there and it was perfect... (as far as a/f is concern)

[Knower]

I have to say I am very happy with my DR.GRAY street tune. I do have a question for you scott. Do you recommend I use a dyno to fine tune or does it not make a difference


A dyno places different load on the car than the street (as well as different airflow, etc...). That's why a dyno tune is good for some fancy numbers, and a street tune is good for a fast, happy street car.

[gofaster87]

Mustang dyno is supposed to relieve some of that notion.






I have to say I am very happy with my DR.GRAY street tune. I do have a question for you scott. Do you recommend I use a dyno to fine tune or does it not make a difference


A dyno places different load on the car than the street (as well as different airflow, etc...).* That's why a dyno tune is good for some fancy numbers, and a street tune is good for a fast, happy street car.

[earlyapex]

I have to say I am very happy with my DR.GRAY street tune. I do have a question for you scott. Do you recommend I use a dyno to fine tune or does it not make a difference


A dyno places different load on the car than the street (as well as different airflow, etc...).* That's why a dyno tune is good for some fancy numbers, and a street tune is good for a fast, happy street car.


You would be suprised how close a Mustang and Dyno Dynamics is to the street as far as load is concerned. Airflow, of course is a different story depending on the setup. My AFR's are pretty damn close, if not spot on from dyno to road. Same thing with the ECU + dyno software.

[turbolarry]

A dyno places different load on the car than the street (as well as different airflow, etc...).* That's why a dyno tune is good for some fancy numbers, and a street tune is good for a fast, happy street car.


O0
I've always rationalized it this way; Who drives on a dyno?

[earlyapex]

A dyno places different load on the car than the street (as well as different airflow, etc...).* That's why a dyno tune is good for some fancy numbers, and a street tune is good for a fast, happy street car.


O0
I've always rationalized it this way; Who drives on a dyno?


Supras?

[kipper215]

man I'm in a hard place. I got the ride running awesome right now O0 but, I'm craving more power. *:skid: I'm just not ready to spend the deniro yet.

[ultraflip]

drive in reverse

[kipper215]

drive in reverse


LOL* * *:2funny: :2funny:

nothing like reverse donuts RENZO style

[trinydex]

air flow... still a problem.

[superman105]

Dr Gray can you post up the last log again

tks

[GokuSSJ4]

with any dealership you have to worry about having mods

[Tarmac02]

man I'm in a hard place. I got the ride running awesome right now O0 but, I'm craving more power. *:skid: I'm just not ready to spend the deniro yet.


Sounded like you needed a little more Deniro in your life

http://xibo.com/images/heat-deniro.jpg