results from tuning technologies

[mistasparkle]

Hey guys I got the car last night from alfred and chris at 2am (stayed late to finish). great guys, ran into problems with the car and fixed it at no extra cost even though it was about 2 more days of work. the car is a fucking blast to drive now compared to before.

car is at 22 psi 7k rpm. 311whp 309wtq on 91 octane
(tarmac black 03)
arp head studs
walbro 255
mbc @ 22psi
780cc
ams fuel rail
hks 280s
full exhaust no cat
cam gears (-2.-2)
samco hoses

[EvoPwr]

ummm???? any1 thinking the samething?

[mistasparkle]

what are you thinking?

[EvoPwr]

what are you thinking?

i dont wanna say, ok well there are 2 things

1. YOU NEED TUNING!

2. #s kinda low, cuz YOU NEED TUNING!

[Blaze]

I'm thinking Chris and Alfred need to invest in some cots for the shop.

[mistasparkle]

car was tuned at 10.8-11 afr at TT

[leaveit2bevo]

ummm???? any1 thinking the samething?

ya im thinking he about 20-30whp short of what that car probably should have. Dave made 305whp with no injectors and cams.

[EvoPwr]

ummm???? any1 thinking the samething?

ya im thinking he about 20-30whp short of what that car probably should have.

ding ding ding thanks BEVO. i knew some1 would get it.

[Blaze]

I'm thinking he needs to update his avatar.

http://cityupsidedown.250free.com/mr-sparkle-homer.jpg

[mistasparkle]

lol

[mistasparkle]

what do you guys think robbed me of that extra power then?

[leaveit2bevo]

maybe those 280s are to aggressive for stock turbo post up your graph, maybe you have a fat curve

[snoop]

I made 298WHP/298TQ with V-I-S-H-N-U stage1 on that dyno (no cams, stock injectors and with highflowcat). What were they tunning with?

[Blaze]

what do you guys think robbed me of that extra power then?

Are you running an OEM cat?
That will hold you back.

Also, Alfred and Chris do not necessarily tune for max power.
More likely they will tune for reliability and drivability.

Note: I am not speaking for the shop.

You should discuss your tune with the tuner directly.
Don't be concerned with a number. Look at the over all tune.
Where are you making power and how wide is your power curve.

[EvoPwr]

I made 298WHP/298TQ with V-I-S-H-N-U stage1 on that dyno (no cams, stock injectors and with highflowcat). What were they tunning with?

vishnew stage1 contains what?

[WOT]

ummm???? any1 thinking the samething?

ya im thinking he about 20-30whp short of what that car probably should have. Dave made 305whp with no injectors and cams.

While running a cat.

[Blaze]

ummm???? any1 thinking the samething?

ya im thinking he about 20-30whp short of what that car probably should have. Dave made 305whp with no injectors and cams.

I think EvoAte909 made 311 with out cams or injectors.
It's ALL in the tune.

[bonestockevo8]

I made 298WHP/298TQ with V-I-S-H-N-U stage1 on that dyno (no cams, stock injectors and with highflowcat). What were they tunning with?

vishnew stage1 contains what? Turboback exhaust and xflash; I made 274/268 w/ the stage zero +. (catback and xflash) V-I-S-H rocks

[WOT]

what do you guys think robbed me of that extra power then?

Who's boost gauge does tt reference? Your's or tt's?

I like tt's. Big tt's :D

[Blaze]

It must be a pain to have your work scrutinized all the time.
I'm glad I'm not part of a "tuning house."

[mistasparkle]

tuned on exede

the cars driveability is really really great. it is pleasant to drive around and the idle is agressive, but I like it.

for you guys that are expecting higher numbers, what kind of afr, timing, and boost are you talking about.

[beavis4g63t]

It must be a pain to have your work scrutinized all the time.
I'm glad I'm not part of a "tuning house."

its not that bad. i used to deal with three hundred pissed off teamsters and millions of pounds of freight per day, so internet scrutiny does not bother me.

we were looking for about 320 on pump gas as a safe number, but the cams are trickier than we thought. we did not have the time to mess with the cam gear settings as this may have played a role. he came in at -2-2 and left at -2-2. in my mind the jury is still out on the benefit of the 280 cams. we went with a very conservative tune. fwiw alvin on his max attack tune with 100 octane and 91 at a peak boost of 24.65 made 330. so draw your own conclusions. we typically like to see 310/305 range for cams. if you want more let us know. i will push the car as for as the owner lets me, but we have no interest in putting up numbers on the dyno and then telling the customer to turn down the boost when they leave. like it or lump it the tune you see is the tune you get.

[mistasparkle]

exactly, those guys tuned my car so safe that they even added an extra pound of boost after i left.

i am satisfied 100% with the car, id rather have 300 than 320 and not knowing if itll hold. maybe if they had more time to play with it we coulda squeezed out more, but i asked em for a safe reliable tune, and thats what i got.

thanks a bunch

Anand

[mistasparkle]

hey chris i got a quick question

when i start the car regardless of hot or cold, it cranks for a while before it fires up. is this a prob or a normal occurance?

thanks

[mistasparkle]

oh ya the peak boost is 22-23 psi but tapers to 19.

[Skiracer]

hey chris i got a quick question

when i start the car regardless of hot or cold, it cranks for a while before it fires up. is this a prob or a normal occurance?

thanks

I had a similar problem. Check for leaks in the O-ring of your fuel injectors and look for any fuel spray on your manifold right below your injectors.

[beavis4g63t]

hey chris i got a quick question

when i start the car regardless of hot or cold, it cranks for a while before it fires up. is this a prob or a normal occurance?

thanks

check the injectors like skiracer said, but i think it has more to do with the cams/780 injectors. the injectors came with new orings and intake manifold seals. we have never seen the combo you used (ams 780, 280 cams, and ams fuel rail) also your isc motor was dying. all these factors together make it tough to diagnose the issue over the net. if you have some time cruise out and i'll give your car the once over.

[leaveit2bevo]

I have a question was the exede scalled for the bigger injectors? I bet that car has a sick curve though its not all about peak numbers I would like to see the dyno graph I hate just hearing what it made.

[mistasparkle]

the exede was scaled for the injectors and rail

[airforce1]

as long as we are on the topic of numbers and dyno curves, I've read that it really is the area UNDER the WHP/WTQ curve that matters. True? Is a big fat curve generally better since you have larger torque on tap at earlier RPMS? I wonder how much this matters in 1/4 mile times if I have 3XX WHP/3XXWTQ on a fatter curve vs someone with same numbers but with torque response at later RPMs?

[mistasparkle]

for drag racing the peak numbers would be more important, but for daily driving and autocross where you need a meaty powerband, the area under the curve matters a lot more. In any application though you would ideally look for a bigger area under the curve as opposed to just peak numbers.

[GokuSSJ4]

please post the dyno chart, i would like to see what type of power band is obtain from running 280/280's

[alex_alex]

chris and alfred are tuning my Vish-nu stage 1++ with the 280's tomorrow. ill post up the results

with the 264/272, it was making anywhere from 321-330hp on pump and 356-358 on 100 octane

[ez76]

as long as we are on the topic of numbers and dyno curves, I've read that it really is the area UNDER the WHP/WTQ curve that matters. True?

all things being equal, yes.

but you cannot directly compare a big fat curve on dyno X with a more peaky curve on dyno Y and safely conclude that the first curve is "better", at least without knowing how the two dynos' measurements relate in general.

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

i have similar mods except i have the straight 272s and hes got 280s and i came out with 341 on 91 octane...hmmmm, seems kinda low. either way youre at the right place, once again big ups to alfred and chris!!

[EVOate909]

hmmm.. 272combo>280combo :shock:

[GokuSSJ4]

hmmm.. 272combo>280combo :shock:
its probably a bit too much for the stock turbo, its been said before that those cams are more for a bigger turbo than stock. Will see what alex_alex results are with the new cams he has as well. I'm not interested so much on peak #'s but on the power band as well. To see how late they spool and what type of mid-range they provided, since IMO the Evo is more of a midrange monster than top-end.

[Alfred@TTech]

As many have speculated and stated.....if you want a dyno queen which will make a peak number for a split split second then so be it. As Chris stated earlier we dont do that here. In our eyes there is absolutely no purpose in dynoing a car for max numbers. It should be what youre going to drive it or race it on. When you do that you are robbing yourself of what the cars potential really is. You get a big torque spike which causes the curve to fall like a drunk bum does off the liquor store curb.

The 16g turbos efficiency range is not in the high psi area..its more in the 20's...it makes peak torque at 3900 and peak hp around 6900. The 280 cams are very aggressive.....I think his car ran very very well.....The 280's may be too much for the stock turbo....we will find out.

Mistasparkle,
Dont listen to people too much, its your car, its your money and most importantly you are one of the first to put these 280's straight across on a street car. I admire the leap of faith and desire to do better on your part, its hard being the first because of the risk but we are right here with you! Instead of criticizing, people should be more supportive but hey..to each his own. Good luck everyone. :lol:

[MyGlue]

About the dyno number comparisons. You have to find out what kind of dyno ur using. Even assuming this is all done on chassis dyno, what brand of dyno , any corrections made, etc. Good job tho. Anything above 300 on stock turbo has gotta be a blast :D

Mike

[GokuSSJ4]

i found this dyno graph in evom.net
this is the list of mods the person has:

Car was street tuned to 10.9:1 a/f and as you can see, it looked significantly richer on the dyno.
93 octane @ 28psi tapering to 22 at redline road tuned by AL then baselined on dynojet.

Mods are:
hks filter
cusco turbo pipe
AMS lower icp
10.5 hotside
02 housing
3" B&B catless turboback
HKS 280 cams
SMC 100% alky with 7gph nozzle
Hallman mbc

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTI5OTI1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

stock intercooler & upper intercooler piping

[Alfred@TTech]

Considering the higher octane gas.....the 6 extra pounds of boost...the alky injection...the o2 housing......the 3" exhaust...shall I go on......Anand's car did quite well. Anand only hit 22 psi........this one hit 28 and held 22. Every extra pound of boost should yield about 10whp.......so make your own conclusions regarding the comparison of these guys' numbers.. :lol:

[airforce1]

Considering the higher octane gas.....the 6 extra pounds of boost...the alky injection...the o2 housing......the 3" exhaust...shall I go on......Anand's car did quite well. Anand only hit 22 psi........this one hit 28 and held 22. Every extra pound of boost should yield about 10whp.......so make your own conclusions regarding the comparison of these guys' numbers.. :lol:
+1

[leaveit2bevo]

ya tom that was a pretty useless dyno chart to show.

[mistasparkle]

actually alfred the car spikes 22 and tapers to 17-18, maybe it had to do with the weather. is there anyway to safely hold 22 to redline? that would yeild me with more power for sure.

the car is amazingly civil and the power comes dead on at 3k and up. i only rev to 7k but it feels like it wants more.

im thinking that my numbers are spot on for the amount of boost i am running with the tune.

tt will get my business again for sure.

Anand

[GokuSSJ4]

ya tom that was a pretty useless dyno chart to show.
i posted the chart to see how the power band look, not to compare apples vs apples. Since both cars have different mods from each other. Like mention before from high amount of boost to different octane (which can be a huge difference when tuning a FI vehicle)

[leaveit2bevo]

I c what your saying, I still want to see this dyno chart

[GokuSSJ4]

since nobody had posted a chart with the 280/280 HKS cams, what better thread than this one :wink:

[mistasparkle]

need a scanner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111 hax

[Alfred@TTech]

Anand,
Thats exactly what I said, your car only hits 22 psi (spikes). As far as holding it to redline, thats a different story. Like I said earlier, the turbos efficiency range is not in the upper 20 psi range. Thats why the only way people can make power with em is to boost them really high and hope they dont taper of too badly. I agree that your car is very tourqey and the power comes on hard I bet it's a blast to drive up that hill on the way to your house. If you want more power, you nee more boost which means you need better gas. 100 or 109 will do the trick. You have the headstuds, so lets crank it up...advance the timing a little and see if we cant hit the 370 MARKER. Look forward to seeing you again man.

Alfred

[mistasparkle]

sure man ill giv eyou guys a call sometime

[mistasparkle]

what about holding 22 to redline on 91? wishful thinking?

[alex_alex]

sorry to dissapoint, but i don't have my charts just yet.

there was a nail in my tire last night, so it couldn't be dynoed until the nail gets fixed today.

good thing Alfred and Chris noticed it or it woulda been fun times on the dyno.

for what its worth, i have never seen another shop more careful with their work.

:peewee: