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View Full Version : ANOTHER SAFC-II vs. FLASH Question



DTunedEvoX
08-04-2005, 11:32 AM
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=151722&page=1&pp=15

I've read through everythin that search has pulled up but ... with that said -

Anyone read this article? I've just aquired a SAFC-II and am pieces away from a Dr. Gray Stage 1... But articles like this kind of make me want to change my mind about my SAFC-II route..

I know we have plenty of successful EVO's here w/ the SAFC-II... Any other input? I know a flash + safc-ii to fine tune for race gas is nice and more cost effective than a full AMS EMS + tune($$$) ...

Any comments on input? Its kind of making me want to choose a different route :roll: Should I just stay on course?

doctorevo
08-04-2005, 11:49 AM
finish your dr. gray stage 1, and call it a day. =)

ultraflip
08-04-2005, 11:51 AM
finish your dr. gray stage 1, and call it a day. =)

+1... it's proven... it's backed by several people here on the forums...

DTunedEvoX
08-04-2005, 11:54 AM
Thanks for your input fellaz! 8)

Absinthe
08-04-2005, 11:56 AM
that case study does not have injectors to help the afc reach its full potential, if you are going that route it would be different.

turbolarry
08-04-2005, 12:09 PM
that case study does not have injectors to help the afc reach its full potential, if you are going that route it would be different.


That... and that other bullshit's from evom. :roll:

kimletrim
08-04-2005, 12:16 PM
Al is just jealous because reflashes are going on the cheap side while he is still charging $200 for a reflash.

DTunedEvoX
08-04-2005, 12:22 PM
I'm going to keep the SAFC-II and continue finishing off my Dr. Gray Stage 1(+) ... Thanks everyone ... 8) Case closed lol

rino
08-04-2005, 12:22 PM
I remember when dynoflash was a big hit until dr. grey took al's mojo away haha

wirespeed
08-04-2005, 12:25 PM
what do u guys think about a base flash (raise rev limit and stuff) n then tuning with a safc

Absinthe
08-04-2005, 12:57 PM
what do u guys think about a base flash (raise rev limit and stuff) n then tuning with a safc

you'll have a wider power band (400rpm up top) and you'll be able to remove boost and feul cut which will also help you tune the car more flexably, so yeah it would seem like a good idea.

Blaze
08-04-2005, 01:07 PM
The problem with the AFC is a nut shell is that you are inavriably always setting NEGATIVE numbers to dial in the a/r ratio on a evo - - this results in the ecu running on a much more overly advanced ignition timing zone which always means you are riding the knock sensor and have retarded timing. The AFC may result in higher timing for one or two dyno pulls but after 5 minutes of operation your timing is pulled and rough - NO WAY around it - period.

As shown above - the capacity to independently adjust a/f and timing results in huge tq gains and a much smoother power band.

The safc is a nice play toy but not even close to the same leauge as a serious tuning tool like the reflash machine.

Finally - few people realize the stock ecu has two main fuel and ign maps which are totally different. Many times people tune on one map with the safc and when the ecu switches to the second map your tune is significantly off.

I am really embarassed to say that I ever went the flash route. But I did, and Dynoflash was the "tuner" Pleanty of people speak out against or for Al already. Thus instead of talking about his personality, driving techniques and tuning skills, I will skip to the end.

@ the time of tune, my car had a full exhaust, fuel pump, intake and a boost controller and a few other misc. goodies.

With a FULL CUSTOM STREET TUNE the car dyno'd in at 259WHP.
After a slight retune, with an SAFC, the number jumped to 283 WHP. :shock:
That was Als custome tune for me. I phoned Al and he said that was the max I could safely take the car on 91. (okay, sure)

I later tried to retune again for 100, but was having problems getting the timing to advance past 17. I phoned Al again to ask why it would not advance. He said it was the gas and to run 100. I explained I was already on 100. He indicated it was the was the tuner. I asked if the timing was hard coded not to exceed 17/18. He stated the details of the program were classified. (Okay, whatever).

After an all night SAFC tune session, the car pulled 344WHP one 100 @ 17degrees of timing.

Regarding the nature of the Dynoflash tune, I do not know all the specifics. But I can tell you what I have seen by driving and logging.

1. It's rich as all hell. I have to assume that is for safety reasons on 91.
2. When you get on boost, the timing won't drop below 5 degrees. This gives you a deceptive low end gain and smoother throttle response.
3. You won't seen timing advance past 17. The timing advance is otherwise a smooth incline.
4. You will most likely loose power from the tune or be otherwise disapointed with your numbers.
5. Your REV limit is increased. But since you're loosing power in the top end and your head is probably not built, this is useless.
6. Your speed limiter is removed. Great. I can't wait to see you pass me at 160.
7. You fuel/boost cuts are removed or relocated.
8. Reflashes were free if you bought the full custome tune. But they won't be as agressive (hahahaha) if he can't be there in person to do another custome tune. And if he is, he'll charge for the re-tune. You car will be down 2-3 days while you send out your ECU.

IMHO, I would rather retune my SAFC every time I get in the car and drive then go with another flash. It's money best spend elsewhere.

Skiracer
08-04-2005, 01:26 PM
:werd:

DTunedEvoX
08-04-2005, 01:52 PM
Thank you for the VERY informative input Mr.Blaze.. I'll just continue with my Dr Gray Stg x routes ... 8)

rEdEvO8
08-05-2005, 09:50 AM
Thank you for the VERY informative input Mr.Blaze.. I'll just continue with my Dr Gray Stg x routes ... 8)

+1 8)

G20
08-19-2005, 04:20 PM
Ok! Here is my experience of reflash and SAFC. I hope it helps some of you in making decision.

I have my 03 EVO back in Feb. 03. Before I have dynoflash, I took my car to the drag with turboback (AVO) K&N filter and EBC and got 13 even with my car with 91 oct gas (I did have an experiment reflash from a company no longer in business).

I had Al did custom tune reflash on my car (twice for diiferent setup) in hope to get into 12s, after the flash the car fell smooth and easier to drive with the linear power so I was thinking it's better. However, I couldn't manager to get better times at the drag. My friends, IE and Smog were keep telling me to take Vishu route, which proven to be good, but I refused because I want to try the alternative and simple way. So I tried and tried, I can't never run better than my best times before dynoflash even I put in 100 gas and turn up the boost.

Sometime in the end of 2004, I got a good deal from RNR GT35r kit. I decided to tune it with the SAFC-II on top of dynoflash (for stock turbo) since I beleive it is one of the simplest piggy-back to use even it lacks direct timing control.

Initially, I had Harman Motive tuned it for me. The car will not boost more than 24 psi and the ecu kept pull timing on race gas. So I decided to wait to see if I will use different piggyback or ems.

Then I found there's foul sparplug so thinking it must be the reason I replaced it and had Tuning Technologies tuned it again for me. This time the car run a little better but still won't boost above 24 psi hence not bringing the GT35r to life. TT suggested that it maybe due to dynoflash set the limited values of the timing table so the ecu won't able to advance anymore timing.

Ok! I got home and decided to get rid to the flash on my car. I had Harman Motive put back the oem 03 flash with the rev limiter increased and fuel-cut removed. I brought the car back to TT for the tune and...

Bamm! It makes 410 whp on 91 and 515 on 110. I told TT to stop at 515 since I affraid the risk of too much hp may get me into trouble without learning how to use it first. I beleive there're still more power in the car that need to extract but I'm happy for now shooting for 11s. So get rid of dynoflash do make thing better for SAFC tuning in case you're running in tuning trouble like me.

If I do it again for my MR, I'll take the simple approach, SAFC and tune by a good tuner (TT). A reflash may feel nice but too restricted to the setup of the car and gas. And if you want big affordable power get RNR GT35r, all supporting mods and bring the car with SAFC to Tuning Technologies. It been proven. :D

Have fun with your EVO!

DTunedEvoX
08-22-2005, 08:38 AM
Ok! Here is my experience of reflash and SAFC. I hope it helps some of you in making decision.

I have my 03 EVO back in Feb. 03. Before I have dynoflash, I took my car to the drag with turboback (AVO) K&N filter and EBC and got 13 even with my car with 91 oct gas (I did have an experiment reflash from a company no longer in business).

I had Al did custom tune reflash on my car (twice for diiferent setup) in hope to get into 12s, after the flash the car fell smooth and easier to drive with the linear power so I was thinking it's better. However, I couldn't manager to get better times at the drag. My friends, IE and Smog were keep telling me to take Vishu route, which proven to be good, but I refused because I want to try the alternative and simple way. So I tried and tried, I can't never run better than my best times before dynoflash even I put in 100 gas and turn up the boost.

Sometime in the end of 2004, I got a good deal from RNR GT35r kit. I decided to tune it with the SAFC-II on top of dynoflash (for stock turbo) since I beleive it is one of the simplest piggy-back to use even it lacks direct timing control.

Initially, I had Harman Motive tuned it for me. The car will not boost more than 24 psi and the ecu kept pull timing on race gas. So I decided to wait to see if I will use different piggyback or ems.

Then I found there's foul sparplug so thinking it must be the reason I replaced it and had Tuning Technologies tuned it again for me. This time the car run a little better but still won't boost above 24 psi hence not bringing the GT35r to life. TT suggested that it maybe due to dynoflash set the limited values of the timing table so the ecu won't able to advance anymore timing.

Ok! I got home and decided to get rid to the flash on my car. I had Harman Motive put back the oem 03 flash with the rev limiter increased and fuel-cut removed. I brought the car back to TT for the tune and...

Bamm! It makes 410 whp on 91 and 515 on 110. I told TT to stop at 515 since I affraid the risk of too much hp may get me into trouble without learning how to use it first. I beleive there're still more power in the car that need to extract but I'm happy for now shooting for 11s. So get rid of dynoflash do make thing better for SAFC tuning in case you're running in tuning trouble like me.

If I do it again for my MR, I'll take the simple approach, SAFC and tune by a good tuner (TT). A reflash may feel nice but too restricted to the setup of the car and gas. And if you want big affordable power get RNR GT35r, all supporting mods and bring the car with SAFC to Tuning Technologies. It been proven. :D

Have fun with your EVO!

Awesome thanks for the feedback .. I'm curerrently having issues w/ my SAFC-II right now .. like mad frustrating issues .. But thanks for taking the time out to write all that! I've already deceided to go w/ the SAFC-II route but might sell it to get some of my other mods first ...

Skiracer
08-22-2005, 08:41 AM
I just got retuned by Dr. Gray over the weekend since i previously had some boost leak problems. The car now pulls like a MOFO. 8)

kimletrim
08-22-2005, 09:20 AM
I just got retuned by Dr. Gray over the weekend since i previously had some boost leak problems. The car now pulls like a MOFO. 8)

I need to do the same thing for the same reason. :?

Skiracer
08-22-2005, 09:22 AM
I just got retuned by Dr. Gray over the weekend since i previously had some boost leak problems. The car now pulls like a MOFO. 8)

I need to do the same thing for the same reason. :?

It'll be a huge difference cuz a boost leak causes changing in timing...

DTunedEvoX
08-22-2005, 09:33 AM
Lucky bastards :lol: