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ReallySlow
09-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Okay guys. I'm having a tough time finding Dr. Gray's stage 1? Is it offered at a shop somewhere? Where does Dr. Gray tune? What exactly is the Stage 1? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks for your help!

Blak94GSX
09-30-2005, 09:16 PM
It is available from Road Race Engineering. They stock it and can install it for you. You have to call them for pricing and availability. www.roadraceengineering.com

This board has strict rules about vendor posts so there isn't much about it here from RRE themselves.

Knower
09-30-2005, 09:23 PM
Okay guys. I'm having a tough time finding Dr. Gray's stage 1? Is it offered at a shop somewhere? Where does Dr. Gray tune? What exactly is the Stage 1? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks for your help!


You lose at searching. Luckily, there is a Frequently Asked Questions section:

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=9252.0

Read a couple posts in.

LaminarFlow
10-23-2005, 10:28 PM
I'm opening this thread back up to talk about the progression...* *Considering that jumping into the stage 1 or whatever is well over $2k, I wanted to present what I'm thinking is the best progression of parts...* Now, I've done a bunch of reading but thats all I have to go on at this point.* So if I'm off base, please feel free to correct my assumptions..

1. 3" TBE + hiflo cat.* Might as well get it all installed once.* While it's going in, install the bung for the o2 sensor in the new downpipe.* This will make the future wideband install easier.* ~$800 (RMR)
2.* Gauges.* Boost gauge is required for the MBC.* O2 is for proper A/F tuning.* ETG is for safety of the engine.*

Personally, i think gauges are cool, but the point here is tuning, not staring your nifty defi gauges.* So the Zeitronix ZT2 Wideband has everything covered in one, including the ability to add a TPS.* ~$600

3. Dejon Tool Manual Boost Controller.* (the simplest and cheapest mod ever it seems)* ~$60
4. Apexi SAFC.* This is of course the tool used for adjusting and tuning.* *From what I've read, to do it right you need the wideband already installed.* Do the data logging route, make minor adjustments to the fuel, and check the results.* Aiming for a A/F of 10.6 - 11.0 acrossed the rpm range (or something close to that) ~$300

5. 720cc Denso Injectors AND Walbro 255lph fuel pump.* These two pretty much should go together, since they both are used to increase fuel flow.* ~$500

6. HKS 272 Cams.* ~$600 + labor.* I've read about the idle issues with 272's so I'm not sure if I'd to 272, 268 or stagger...*

Tuning would occur after 5 and 6, but considering both are >$500 each, they might not both happen at the same time.*

This is about the end target for my power goal.* Then I'll get the CF air splitter, tint the windows and maybe a bigger rear swaybar...* *;)*

Does this sound like a logical progression of upgrades?

trannb
10-23-2005, 11:22 PM
Your logic and order seem good. You can do a pump before you do the injectors though. It's not necessary to do them at the same time if you don't have the money all quite there. Not being afraid to wrench on your car is a good way to save some cash.

Blak94GSX
10-23-2005, 11:29 PM
Yeah. that isn't the cheapest collection of parts, but those are nice parts.

I think the order should go:

1. Catback exhaust $500-$1000 depending on how bling you want it. $250 if you go the budget route and get a "muffler shop" exhaust system

2. Dejon Tool MBC and boost gauge. $60 for the Dejon Tool MBC, the boost gauge is $40-$400 depending on how bling you want it again... Set it to 21PSI peak for now The budget route is an Autometer mechanical gauge and throw it in the glovebox or disconnect it after you adjust the boost level. If you were a DSMer, you would borrow one from your "rich" DSM friend, set the boost, then give it back...


--You can stop here for a while and have a pretty cool setup for cheap...


3. Downpipe and high-flow cat or rally cat or whatever you like for a cat. This will complete your turbo-back exhaust setup

--You can stop here again for a while...

4A. SAFC...

This is a useful mod all by itself, IF you can tune it yourself. You can pick up some power, especially on the top end, even with the stock injectors and pump. I say do it now only if you can tune it yourself so you don't have to pay for tuning twice. If you are going to pay to have it tuned, you will want to do the pump and injectors at the same time.

4B. If you are going to have it tuned, then do the Denso 660cc injectors, Walbro pump and SAFC all at once, have it all tuned together...


--You can stop here again for a while...

5. HKS 272 cams. Cams should always be last since they are not a real good bang for the buck mod, but still worth doing if you want to extract that last bit out of the stock turbo...


The Zeitronix ZT-2 with the EGT, Wideband and Boost all together with datalogger is a really nice setup, and for those items it is a real deal for the price, but it isn't required for the budget setup. Wideband is handy to have for tuning, but really not required. I'd rather have a pocketlogger alone, than wideband and EGT without pocketlogger. Of course Pocketlogger, Wideband and EGT all together is the nicest.

turbolarry
10-24-2005, 12:17 PM
If you were a DSMer, you would borrow one from your "rich" DSM friend, set the boost, then give it back...



:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
OMG!
That is true DSM
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

EvoPwr
10-24-2005, 04:18 PM
god forbid that defi works really well :roll:

GokuSSJ4
10-24-2005, 09:03 PM
god forbid that defi works really well :roll:

there great gauges, but not for some one that it's on a budget.

thetaxguy
10-24-2005, 09:40 PM
god forbid that defi works really well :roll:

there great gauges, but not for some one that it's on a budget.

Very true. I dont really have 700+ to spend on some gauges.

btw, This is a great thread. Lets keep it up. :mitsu:

j_nizzle
10-24-2005, 09:46 PM
If you were a DSMer, you would borrow one from your "rich" DSM friend, set the boost, then give it back...



:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
OMG!
That is true DSM
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:


i use an autometer boost gauge...
so im a poor evo tuner?

Blak94GSX
10-24-2005, 09:47 PM
I think the correct term is "economical"... :p

GokuSSJ4
10-24-2005, 10:43 PM
this thread will be place in the FAQ , regarding the famous celebrity "Dr.Gray" :P

LaminarFlow
10-24-2005, 10:52 PM
I have a confession.... *your post (Blak94GSX) posting like 340 hp using this part list (on costo gas no less) got me hooked on following your lead, so I'm glad you joined in.. *O0

It sounds like my initial progression guess was pretty close. *But lets say I have zero experience in "tuning" and I want to do it right, extracting everything I can from the stock turbo, safely. *I got the tbe and mbc correct. *But now I'm wondering how accurately and safely could *I* tune with just the SAFC? *That question could be the kiss of death for my engine. * I'm thinking the suggested route is SAFC and professional tune on a dyno, presuming the guys tuning the car would use a wideband or something to log the effects of changing settings on the SAFC. * And the point is well taken that if I were to just go professional tune, invest in the pump and injectors at the same time. *

Now say I'm Mr. DIY. *Without a wideband, I have no A/F info to tune with. *I'd just be guessing the settings on the SAFC based on what others are trying, with no real positive feed back that I'm running lean or rich, or if I'm about to melt the engine. *

Thats pretty much why I put the wideband, egt stuff so high on my list. *It's not budget, but it will yeild the best information to extract the best performance with the most saftey to the engine. *

But I'm still a little confused what you'd do with just a SAFC and a pocketlogger. *What would you be logging? *Maybe I'm just not clear what the SAFC does besides letting you customize fuel injection across the RPM range.

Blak94GSX
10-24-2005, 10:58 PM
Well the more instrumentation you have, the easier it is to tune. So if you are learning, it is easier to get a proper tune with the full Zeitronix ZT-2 setup, AND a pocketlogger or some kind of datalogger.

You can read the AFC Tuning FAQ for more detailed info on how to use a datalogger with tuning an AFC.

You definitely do NOT want to "guess at the settings based on what others are trying". It is important to adjust the AFC based on the instrumentation and only based on the instrumentation. There are no right or wrong settings, just the settings that your car likes.

One of these days I might actually finish the mother of all tuning FAQs, but alas I am a lazy bastard... :p

LaminarFlow
10-24-2005, 11:18 PM
Thanks for you insight.* Your experience is much appreciated...* *I'll followup on the AFC faq.*

And send me your draft on the mother of all tuning FAQ.* Technical writing is part of my day job.* I might be able to help fill in the holes so you don't loose newbes like me in the translation.* *

[email protected]

Senshi
10-24-2005, 11:22 PM
One of these days I might actually finish the mother of all tuning FAQs, but alas I am a lazy bastard... :p

you should do a tunning class that would be sweet O0 but i already find just reading what advice u post on the forums is almost that

SpdyEvo02
10-24-2005, 11:27 PM
One of these days I might actually finish the mother of all tuning FAQs, but alas I am a lazy bastard... :p

you should do a tunning class that would be sweet O0 but i already find just reading what advice u post on the forums is almost that

that would be usefull for all the noobs out there like me

lagcisco
10-24-2005, 11:44 PM
Blak94GSX == Dr Gray?

I'd be willing to spend about $50 or so for a tuning class for an hour or whatever is deemed nessesary to learn how to not blow up my engine

maybe we could get a few heads together and buy some of Dr Gray's time?

SpdyEvo02
10-24-2005, 11:46 PM
yes blak94gsx is Dr. Gray

itsnino
10-30-2005, 10:56 AM
i :smitten: this thread!

EvoPwr
10-30-2005, 12:37 PM
hehe $50 an hour :2funny:

rino
10-30-2005, 12:59 PM
how do you guys with the stage 1 work with the injectors. I know people who have put in the fuel pump in without tuning. How about the injectors, can I just install them and drive around like that or would I have to install them right before getting the car tuned?

EvoPwr
10-30-2005, 01:04 PM
how do you guys with the stage 1 work with the injectors. I know people who have put in the fuel pump in without tuning. How about the injectors, can I just install them and drive around like that or would I have to install them right before getting the car tuned?


do not install injectors without tuning, you will run richer than richie rich. ok bad joke, but seriously, do not install injectors without tuning unless you want to run like crap. my .02

tabio42
10-30-2005, 01:16 PM
Blak94GSX == Dr Gray?

I'd be willing to spend about $50 or so for a tuning class for an hour or whatever is deemed nessesary to learn how to not blow up my engine

maybe we could get a few heads together and buy some of Dr Gray's time?


www.efi101.com

Spend 10 times as much and you're set!

Blak94GSX
10-30-2005, 02:12 PM
how do you guys with the stage 1 work with the injectors. I know people who have put in the fuel pump in without tuning. How about the injectors, can I just install them and drive around like that or would I have to install them right before getting the car tuned?


The car runs fine except at full throttle until it is tuned. It is safe either way. So you can get the injectors installed and then drive it around normal for a couple days until it is tuned.