engine braking

[oct7th1987]

a friend told me to engine brake while i was breaking in my car. he said it was good for it. car is well broken in... 6,000 miles. but now i do it with everyday driving.

engine braking good for everyday driving? anybody do it? bad for clutch?

[drwn kix]

I have to admit that I am not up on the latest techniques but think about this. Your car has a built in rev limiter which prevents the engine from overreving except that if you let the clutch out in first gear at 70 miles per hour the engine can be grossly overrevved.

I also remember that over a decade ago formula one engines were found to blow up more often under breaking than under acceleration. Some constructors installed clutches which prevented engine breaking all together. Of course much larger brakes were then necessary but the engines lasted a lot longer.

[oct7th1987]

of course using the right gear at the right speed.. just to help slow you down

[DTunedEvoX]

For daily driving ... Use your brakes .... Put it this way - its cheaper to replace your brake pads then it is to replace anything in your drivetrain (clutch, syncros, tranny, tc) ... 8)

Brake pads $$$ < Clutch Install

[ultraflip]

engine braking = breaking engine

[GokuSSJ4]

For daily driving ... Use your brakes .... Put it this way - its cheaper to replace your brake pads then it is to replace anything in your drivetrain (clutch, syncros, tranny, tc) ...* 8)

Brake pads $$$ < Clutch Install

the car loves heel to toe (rev matching), had 03 with 31k miles and stock clutch (no problems) and over 11 track days w/ 315whp...
heel to toe all the time...

[DTunedEvoX]

For daily driving ... Use your brakes .... Put it this way - its cheaper to replace your brake pads then it is to replace anything in your drivetrain (clutch, syncros, tranny, tc) ...* 8)

Brake pads $$$ < Clutch Install

the car loves heel to toe (rev matching), had 03 with 31k miles and stock clutch (no problems) and over 11 track days w/ 315whp...
heel to toe all the time...


I heel toe damn near every corner w/ 35k on my stock clutch and 50 drops to the clutch @ LACR lol - I just feel someone new to driving would be better @ using there brakes ... $$$ ... lol

[gofaster87]

What the helll does engine braking have to do with heel/toe and foot braking? You guys need to stop. Engine braking is used by many people on a fresh motor to help the rings seal against the walls.

[Knower]

The best approach is to downshift halfway through a corner (or even on straight road) and sidestep the clutch.* I always slow down sideways.

[trinydex]

^^^ funny HAHAHHA

[jase]

The best approach is to downshift halfway through a corner (or even on straight road) and sidestep the clutch.* I always slow down sideways.


+1

[banananut]

I have been using engine breaking ever since I purchased my car. 39,000 miles with original clutch but 1 set of pads replacement. OEM pads are $200 a set! Not too cheap IMO. How long did anybody else last on the stock pads? To me, seems like engine breaking doesnt harm the drivetrain noticeably if you do it right, heel-toe helps to reduce the wear and stress. No?

[trinydex]

my stock pads all 4 corners lasted me a whole 12k... lfb wears out hte brakes... who'da thot.

[gt40]

Just say no. Brakes are so much easier and cheaper than your clutch and drive train to replace. Say yes to rev matching and heel/toe but "engine braking" just causes wear and slows you down...

[rammsteinmatt]

the engine is used to go faster, brakes are used to go slower, use the engine to slow down as much as you would use the brakes to speed up

[trinydex]

but the f1 cars like the one in your sig always downshift before the turn.......

[rammsteinmatt]

but the f1 cars like the one in your sig always downshift before the turn.......



you've gotta be joking, F1 cars dont have their powerband at 3k rpms (infact driving at thise low RPMs aparently causes engine damage (pretty sure sato's car had these problems 2 years ago) ) so the downshift allows the wheels' rpm to match the engine's powerband (ie. 10k+ rpm)

engine braking alone wont slow a car from 180 -> 50 in 5 seconds

[trinydex]

uhm... but that is engine braking... you do agree... adn anyone that is using their engine to stop the car or go from 180 to 50 is not doing the right thing. but i however don't use my brakes to go at all... and i don't use my brakes on corner exit at all either. which is why i make the distinction that i do engine brake for the turn (that's what any downshift is)... but i don't use my brake for acceleration out of it.

i mean... you're not interpretting this as using hte engine to stop are you? engine braking is any time the engine is cycling while under closed throttle... you're compressing the air in the cylinders with the power that the wheels are generating by continuing to rotate... hence it slows you down... hence the "braking" tag in the term.

hmmm so this brings me to think... if you built up load on the engine caught air... and then downshifted... your wheels would stop right away... and then your engine would die. that's cute.

[rammsteinmatt]

maybe there is a miscommunication here....... (also im referring to tracking, not everyday driving)

there is a difference between:

accelerating towards a corner. dumping the gas way before the turn for engine braking. downshifting comming in (no brakes of course, after all our engine is braking for us). take turn

and

come towards turn WOT. at predetermined braking point, brakes almost to lock. downshift(s). take turn

understand how the first is "engine braking" where all braking is done with the engine. and the latter is using the brakes to slow the car at the last moment to effectively go faster through the corner ie. the time requred to go from pre turn to post turn (the engine has no where near the stopping power of the brakes, so it takes longer to slow the car for the same turn)

now you may be splitting hairs to say that when we are braking, with the brakes, the downshifts are actually helping to slow the car. that is correct. but to say that is a significat source of stopping power (especially if you are heavy on the brakes like i suggest) that is quite inaccurate.

if you dont believe me, get in your car right now. drive down a street, and make a right turn at a regular interesection. do it twice. one using brakes and one without brakes, using only downshifts to slow the car. *not im not responsible if you injur someone, over-rev the engine, or otherwise break a drivetrain component.
of course i realize that this is not really relevean, because the max speed limit on most major streets is 45, and the evo can take the turns at that speed (especially with your new JIC's) but imagine doing 120 down a straight into a hairpin (like turn 1 at the hockenheim ring, hey you mentioned F1) and see how long your braking distance is using brakes vs. using only your engine with downshifts

maybe you now understand exactly what i am trying to say?

[rammsteinmatt]

hmm re-reading. i think we're on the same page. except maybe with my original statement -i'll explain

"the engine is used to go faster, the brakes are used to go slower; use the engine to brake as much as you would use the brakes to go faster"

this statement uses irony to convey a point. would you ever use the brakes to go faster? no, hell no. therfore should you use the engine to go slower? of course not.
this statement is specifically target towards tracking, as engine braking, as you would do in ordinary driving, is not the fastest way around the track. ideally you would be either hitting the brakes or the gas, but never doing neither at the same time (although you could do both at the same time).

[trinydex]

you did not catch my attempt at a joke over technicalities....