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Terry S
12-20-2005, 12:11 PM
Judge rules against 'intelligent design' in science class

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/intelligent.design/index.html

A little excerpt: "We have concluded that it is not [science], and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents,"

Pwnzed.

Terry S

genrec
12-20-2005, 01:12 PM
Saw this, this morning.....This is freakin great.

I'm tired of these Right Wing Christian Finatics always whining and getting there way.

Psshhh...trying to teach fairy tales in a Science Class, the nerve of these religious freaks, always trying to impose their beliefs on others.

Terry S
12-20-2005, 01:52 PM
I guess I shouldn't party quite yet though. I just noticed its a district judge.. Still got appeals comming :tickedoff:

Terry S

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 09:25 AM
Saw this, this morning.....This is freakin great.

I'm tired of these Right Wing Christian Finatics always whining and getting there way.

Psshhh...trying to teach fairy tales in a Science Class, the nerve of these religious freaks, always trying to impose their beliefs on others.


I thought you lived in California? If so, then please let me know when the Christian Fanatics have gotten their way with anything? I am a Christian, and fanatical about it, I suppose (Fanatic: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion). In our lovely state, if a 13 y/o girl wants to leave school to get an abortion it is ILLEGAL for the school to inform her parents. If the "Right Wing" ever got their way on anything, this would be one they would have (and did) try to get. Speaking of Fairies, the liberal left clearly controls the state legislature here and in 3 other "leadership" states.

That being said, I do not personally think a two paragraph statement at the beginning of biology class (one time during the 4 years of HS) or maybe more for you infringes on anyones rights.

Also, before someone spoutes off with "separation of church and state" line...The Constitution of the United States does not mention this, AT ALL. It does, however, make statements that the government can not institute or enforce its own religion. Which brings up the namesake of our car, evolution. If there is any religion that our government supports in a biased manner it is evolution. And yes, evolution is a religion. (religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith). The day that evolution is a fact and not theory, that is when it will not longer be a religion. The amount of faith people have in science is scary especially since the last thing they want anyone to have is faith itself.

Here is a fun little experiment...go to the post office and look at the posters on the wall advertising their current stamps...You will see; kwanza, honuka, and wait, where is it?...no Christmas stamps advertised. Another win for the Christian Right, right?

Merry Christmas everyone!

pk

genrec
12-21-2005, 10:01 AM
I'll keep this short,

Anything goes in here pal, if you are offended easily which you must be, dont come in here. Yah i live in Cali, thank you, no place i'd rather be. Im looking at this country as a whole, not just Cali. Dont act like you bible thumpers dont get your way. I'll give you the hugest win for you all. Mr. Bush clearly won the last election due to bible thumping Chrisitian finatics. They used all there agendas to get him relected, and he fed off all their wims and wishes and told them everything they want to hear to do so. So now we still have to deal with this moron for a couple more years. Im not here to bash the Republican party nor stick up for the Dems, I'm agaisnt the finatics in this country that are always trying to push their belief systems up everybody elses ass, they think there shit dont stink, and they are almighty because they now have accepted Jesus Christ(a jew), when most all of them are the biggest hipocrits on the face of the planet. Ask all these reborns about there past, i guarantee they raped, stole, were or are alchoholics, drug users, porno masters, adultry commiters, masters of sin, i dont doubt you took or take part in any of these activities yourself. Thats not very Christian now is it? There are way to many agendas to list, so i won't. So now here we are, kids wont be able to goto school and learn sciences/evolution something that exists and can be proven throught technology, They are gonna have to listen to fairytales in the classroom of how we really came to be??? Let these parents keep on brainwashing their own children every sunday and in their own homes.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays.

Terry S
12-21-2005, 10:10 AM
As genrec put it, this is not a separation of church and state thing so much as a separation of fact and fiction. Intelligent Design is not a science. At the very MOST it could be taught in a philosophy class or theology class.

And yes, Evolution is a science not a religion, hence why we teach it in science classes. Oh and its a car too.

Terry S

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 10:56 AM
TerryS- as genrec put it, he refered to a group of people as fanatics, actually.* What makes science science?* there is more faith for and supporting (again, I said FAITH) evolution than there is Christianity.* Until evolution is proved (please dont tell me you think it has been) it is only a theory.* ID is a theory as well, with much more "proof" than evolution.* I used to be a strong supporter of evolution, until I placed the same standards upon my theory as I did all others.* I specifically challenged Christians, and having run into someone who took the time to think when I just spouted off with the same crap that is perpetuated through evo discussions.* I took the time (after the fact) to think about this person, I noticed that I had to call people names and rage on and on when he didnt.* He knew his facts, and he knew the info on both sides.* So why did this person believe differently than I did?* I never got to know this person better, so I dont know.* I did know that no matter how much I wanted to believe that I didnt need salvation I still knew something was missing (modded: that evo couldnt fill).* As far as "science" goes how does intelligent design fail to meet standards?* Today we live in a society that embraces anything that points to mans own greatness, yet completely rejects God as an explanation for things that man cant figure out.* Some of the same people who are the mainstream evo persuasion also strongly support; crop circles, alien abduction, etc, but claim that God is fantasy.* When Darwin first introduced evolution as a theory, the theory itself was very different than what is pushed today.* I guess the theory "evolved".*

For a moment, I will concede to evolution as fact...So now I know that I am from an ape, which is from a squirrel, which is from a lizard, which is from a fish, which is from an underwater bacteria or something.* This is know to myself and the rest of humanity.* We all know it.* At this point does it get removed from science and moved to philosophy?* (philosophy:* *1-the most general beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group* ,2-a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought)* I would say no.* Moment is past, reality is here, and I am a Christian again...

The entire concept behind creationism (the original term for ID) is to allow us to understand where we came from.* The idea behind ID is to address life itself.* Since I like definitions, Biology:* a branch of knowledge that deals with living organisms and vital processes.* I dont know how ID does not fit the definition.* All of this being said, Dover, PA did not want to remove biology, or even add a class for ID, they just wanted a paragraph read once to the students that there is a theory called Intelligent Design which may go a long way to filling in the gaps and holes that evolutionists themselves claim exist.* If it wasnt true, why would everyone be so affraid of 30 seconds of teaching that will be "overwritten" by hundreds of hours of evo brainwashing?* Terry, I would like your opinion on that specifically, since you appear to take the time to think before responding.


Genrec,
Thanks for the FANATICAL response (Fanatic <or sometimes spelled finatic, not!>: *marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion). * If an unbiased individual were to read this entire thread, whom do you think would be labeled the fanatic? *

In all of your rantings, you did not in any way point out how the Christian right has gotten their way. *To claim the victory of last election on the backs of the Christians is just well, silly. *They wish they had that much political power.

If you lump all people who claim to be Christians into the same basket then you are right. *But then lets put all the California-born people in the same basket. *You all must be wife and unborn child killers, right? *But I do not take a FANATICAL approach to labeling other groups. * I know *that Scott Peterson (it may be a bad example because he may have been born somewhere else, but the point sticks) did these things, and he calls himself a native born californian. *So we must conclude, based on your logic, that all people who call themselves native born californians must also be baby killers?!!

Also, if you think that by pointing out Jesus' jewish background you are teaching something, you missed the mark again. *or was it just a bit of anti-semitism coming out? *I would be willing to bet that your knowledge of the Bible falls behind your level of understanding of politics and our government, and by your posts it is clear how low that is.

Lastly, to assign any of the behaviors you mentioned to me is also silly. *What reason do you have for this? *As for my past, and the past of many born agains, (and for the rest of humanity), yes I drank (still do occasionally), and I used to like to look at porn. *How is this relevant?...oh, it isnt, but a fanatic needs some rouge tangent to go after when he sees that he doesnt have a leg to stand on.

Dont presume to know all Christians based off of your limited exposure. *And with all of your negative speak towards Christianity, I hope you do not give or receive any gifts this weekend to celebrate..., wait for it, wait for it, THE BIRTH OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR; JESUS CHRIST!!!!

Merry Christmas

genrec
12-21-2005, 11:18 AM
Arrowevo,

You are a clearly an acomplished writer and believer of what you speak. Me anti-semetic, i think not, for i was born a so called chosen one. Only i do not practice or believe what i can not see or touch, or what i believe are bedtime stories from the past, which have no relevance into todays society.

Lets step back for a moment, please tell us how you can be so sure of a God, and what proof you have???
I want hard facts, not faith, for faith is not fact.


Please explain.

l

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 12:15 PM
Genrec,
I usually dont repond to request (or demands) when the original challenge (name something in a political arena that the 'right wingers' have been successful at) is still unmet, and to some degree ignored, but for this I will make the exception...

Second LAW of thermodynamics (that is law, not theory, not opinion, LAW). If you are asking yourself what this is, then you probably shouldnt be representing the "scientific" side of the debate. If you know what this is, then I can not understand why you would be debating for evolution, and against God.

For all others. The 2nd law of thermodynamics states:
1.Heat will not flow spontaneously from a cold object to a hot object.
2. Any system which is free of external influences becomes more disordered with time. This disorder can be expressed in terms of the quantity called entropy.
3. You cannot create a heat engine which extracts heat and converts it all to useful work.
4. There is a thermal bottleneck which contrains devices which convert stored energy to heat and then use the heat to accomplish work. For a given mechanical efficiency of the devices, a machine which includes the conversion to heat as one of the steps will be inherently less efficient than one which is purely mechanical

If that didnt ring any bells, read point number 2 again. If that still doesnt work, I am at a loss. There it is; a law, a scientific law which goes directly against the debated THEORY of evo. If disorder was constantly taking place, how could species evolve into better more complex, and advanced creatures. Instead, entropy explains things like; aging, cancer, disease of all types actually, the breakdown of our dna and rna over time, etc.

Now, I believe I filled your request, genrec. any comments?

By the way, I can be prejudice against a group of people that I am a part of. That is to say, being a Jew does not mean you cant be an anti-semite, although I would not label you as such. I stopped dating a girl several years ago because she said she would never date a black man...she was black, and I found her statement to be as racist as any redneck's could have been. But again, I do not assume you are an anti-semite, I just had to comment on your original "Jesus was a Jew" statement...some I just cant pass on!

pk

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 12:19 PM
The real question is why did entropy start? Anyone care to take a bite out of that apple?

pk

ps. pun was intended

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 12:43 PM
Ok. I have read the thread again, and I must confess...I did not prove the existence of God. What I did was disprove (or attempted to do) the theory of macro evolution (evolution as it is typically called). I used the 2nd law of td to show that evolution doesnt work, but I used that as an argument for the existence of God. One does not mean the other. Meaning, even if it is proven that evolution doesnt exist, it will not prove that God does, and I shouldnt take part in that game.

The fact is that there is proof all around. Heck, a 2.0 litre internal combustion engine producing 500+ whp should be proof enough, but I know it isnt. Proof or not, it is the faith that makes the difference. Even with evolution. Most people in our socient would say that evolution is something they believe in. I would bet that 99% of believers in evolution could not do the first thing to explain the concept, let alone argue for its proof. That being said, it could only be faith that delivers most people in society to their beliefs. Even if every single person who believes in evolution was able to articulate the premise and concept of evolution they would all still need faith in order to do so. It is not a law, or a fact, but it is treated by society/science/education system as such. And that is a scary (very very scary) thing... There was a time (less than 100 years ago) when society/science/and the educational system taught that white people were more advanced (read: evolved) than other non-whites. You would also find numerous people willing to fight and debate this opinion...did it make it true? Well, according to evolution it is. Thats right, I said it, evolution is racist! Unless you are trying to tell me that the leading evolution theorist say that all races came into existence at the same time. (they dont say that) So, who do they say came first? Which means, who came later...which means who is more evolved? Nice theory. Are you starting to see how creationism and or ID start to make sense?

This is fun, lets keep it going, I just wanted to be forth right with what I came to realize after I read the thread again.

pk

genrec
12-21-2005, 12:47 PM
All you have proven and are trying to prove is how intelligent you are or can be. Instead of answering my question, you do like every other religious person, beat around the bush. My friend i am aww of your vast knowledge that you come here to spout off. For such an intelligent guy you can't answer a simple question. I did not ask you for all that hoopla, i asked you to give me a proof of your God, which you did not or can't. Instead you come here and try to insult my intelligence, good job Einstein. So i'm pretty much out, and when you come up with valid proof of this so called God of yours please let me know. I'm looking for something to believe in. O0

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 12:59 PM
how about this, I will just pray for you instead. To be honest, I thought these discussion were to so we can talk about things we do know (or assume to know <this shoe fits ALL of us>), but I guess I could be wrong about that too.

i dont feel i was beating around the bush, as I was as direct as I could be. It is a shame you are walking away from the conversation...I guess I could say thats what "your type here" of people do, but I dont know you well enough to know what type you are. I would assume it is a little more than your posts would suggest, though.

pk

Terry S
12-21-2005, 01:34 PM
Formulating a response. Gimme a few minutes since I just got back from lunch.

Terry S

Terry S
12-21-2005, 01:57 PM
Here are the issues with your arguments as I see it: you can’t cross apply things that bear no relation to each other. I work with law stuff, and when you read up on regulations and codes, you always look at the definitions section first. They spell out for you what they mean when they say the word “borrower” or “application”. Using the proper definitions for the context of the conversation is paramount over your own personal definitions.

For instance, just because it’s called the Theory of Evolution, you can’t apply a catchall definition. Heck, even Dictionary.com has 7 different definitions. Here’s the one you seem to be applying: 6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. Note that this is the 6th one on the list denoting its infrequent use. Here’s # 1 which would be a better fit of “Theory” as used in our context: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. Or even #2 would work: The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

Secondly, you are applying Laws and Theories where they do not apply: using the Second Law of Thermodynamics to disprove Evolution (in science form). Please take note that the laws of thermodynamics in principle describe the specifics for the transport of heat and work in thermodynamic processes, not how evolution (or ID) works or doesn’t work. Yes I understand that many other areas of science (even some in philosophy) like to use these to explain things, but you have to remember, these laws were discovered when studying thermodynamics not anywhere else. If you want to apply them to something else, you have to be able to independently reach the same conclusions using a scientific method of discovery. Just because they independently fit, doesn’t mean its right.

Finally, ID is a “giving up” style of theory: “I cant figure it out, so it must be x.” This ignores the scientific method of stating the theory, doing the research, and proving or disproving the theory based on the results. Evolution (as a science) has been proven in many different aspects; from moths and microscopic creatures, to birds and fish (if I remember right). You cannot deny that there are living organisms on this planet that evolve from generation to generation, this is proven fact. Now the philosophical side of evolution is when you get into the hard line, man evolved from ape. This can be looked at as either scientific experimentations in progress to find an answer, OR you can take the philosophical route and say right out, “yes they did, I need no proof.” Once you’ve said that, you have turned the corner into Theology land. This however still does not make the entire theory of evolution a philosophy from that point on. Either way, once you abandon the scientific part of the equation, you have left the science class, and entered the philosophy class.

I’m sure I’m leaving something else out, but I cant find it right now. Again, let me state that ID has no place in a science class, but it has every right to be taught in a social studies class or philosophy class. The Federal District judge and the Pennsylvania school board also agree with this, and as such, the school board is handling it exactly like this. Thankfully, there will be no appeal of the decision so it’s a happy day afterall. :)

Terry S

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 02:57 PM
i dont know what to say, i am so tired from work (i have been up for 32 hours now) i dont think i can argue this. trust me i really want to get in on this but i just cant...... well ok maybee i will just dable a bit ( dont be to harsh on my puctuation and spelling please, i am out of it right now* :uglystupid2:) first problem with the christians, thier hipocracy is astounding. christians love to piont fingers and blame things on other groups like the gay comunity, other non christian religions, ext ext. they also like to use words like superstitious to discribe other groups beliefs. now considering christians are some of the most radical people in the world i find that amusing. for instance, christians like to lobby to get laws that affect all of us changed to suit them am i right? another thing to consider, what would you call me if i talked to an imaginary being in the sky and expected that to have some sort of influince on my life? or if i thought when something bad happend it was not just random act but infact due to that being in the sky or his arch rival? superstitious perhaps?

another area that is nice to cover is this all knowing, all powerfull master being in the sky. how do you have free will if this supream being allready knows what is going to happen? would'nt that require a preordained fate? so then how would you have free will? or would you just be a pupet being pulled along by your stings to your great cosmic fate?

ok enough of that, lets get into the bible as a pure document. if you where going to controll a large group of people mentally what would you want your document to do? instill fear into people that rejected it, have 0 tolerance of other beliefs that take away from your document, and make people surender them selves, their property, and thier money with out question. ah yes the nazis could not have done it better.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/abracadbra00723/priests-salute.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/abracadbra00723/NaziPriestsSaluteHitler.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/abracadbra00723/Hitler-with-Muller.jpg

like i said just throwing some stuff out there. i would love to get all scientific but i am just to tired right now, so i thought i would just piont out some of the reall stand out flaws in christianity. 8)

Terry S
12-21-2005, 03:00 PM
an add-on to matt's hilarious post (great pics!):

if you want to see a modern look at what it was like at the start of christianity, take a look at scientology.

Terry S (not a scientologist)

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 03:03 PM
an add-on to matt's hilarious post (great pics!):

if you want to see a modern look at what it was like at the start of christianity, take a look at scientology.

Terry S (not a scientologist)
i am glad you enjoyed it :2funny:.

gofaster87
12-21-2005, 03:20 PM
What the fuck is with these short books for answers. I see California was brought up. California sucks, plain and simple. Viva Las vegas, Republicans forever. Where else can you goto a drug store and play poker while smoking and waiting for a prescription. Where else is drinking and lots of sex acceptable as an everyday norm? What other state actually gives you this choice to be naughty? Last but not least, this state gives a rats ass about your exhaust or intake. As for the theories and seperation ideas I wont get into that. My temper flares too much.

Terry S
12-21-2005, 03:26 PM
What the fuck is with these short books for answers. I see California was brought up. California sucks, plain and simple. Viva Las vegas, Republicans forever. Where else can you goto a drug store and play poker while smoking and waiting for a prescription. Where else is drinking and lots of sex acceptable as an everyday norm? What other state actually gives you this choice to be naughty? Last but not least, this state gives a rats ass about your exhaust or intake. As for the theories and seperation ideas I wont get into that. My temper flares too much.


We aren't all as mild mannered as you, sorry. Sometimes it's tough to keep the disertation (how in the crap do you spell that?) at bay.

Yes, Vegas is the bomb. But, my wife wont move there so bleh. I really need to get off my ass and start this business so I can just move wherever. Anyone wanna get in on the ground floor of a mortgage company? hehehhe. Not like its bad timing or anything.

Terry S

Terry S
12-21-2005, 03:45 PM
Some fun reading on ID by the way: http://people.howstuffworks.com/intelligent-design.htm

Terry S

rammsteinmatt
12-21-2005, 03:58 PM
ah yes the nazis could not have done it better.


sure they could. they just killed non believers.

paraphrase: the only way to remove an idea is a complete extermination of all persons that hold and subscribe to that idea. -adolf hitler.

he knew how to get a crowd to follow, make examples. omnipotence, gotta get me some of that.

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 04:08 PM
Terry, thanks for your well thought response. *It deserves one as well so I will go into some 'pick-apart' myself, later.

RSMatt, *thanks too for your input, especially considering your lack of sleep. *I know how hard it can be to express myself after burning the candle from both ends, but I can not follow your line of thinking. *I see you picked images of some catholics, and I am not a catholic. *That being said, there are plenty of born agains (some may actually be too) that do horrible things to manipulate people, usually for their money, but not always . *I dont support those who do. *I know that I have done, and will continue to do things that, by moral standards are wrong. *This is what I would refer to as sin. *I believe that God will not co-exist with sin, therefore we need a way to be with God. *I believe that God sent his only begotten Son, Jesus here to save us from being separated from God. *I believe God would want us all to be saved. *


CHOICE:
I believe that God knows who will ultimately choose to believe in His Son. *I believe we choose what to believe (faith), and what not to believe. *I believe that as worshipers of God, we are given gifts to help maintain our path, but that does not in anyway mean we can not CHOOSE to change our paths. *As far as predetermination or preordained destiny, whatever...I knew, with every ounce of me, that someone was going to bring up the concept of predestination. *Does this mean that the person who brought it up had no choice in doing so? *No. *It means that I am aware enough to know that it will happen. *Of course, I am no where near as aware of things as God, therefore, his "accuracy" would obviously be much better than mine in knowing exactly who would do what. *That does not take our choice away.

The beauty of having a relationship with God is within the choice of it. *The choice exists between good and evil, right and wrong (whatever you want to call it) for the purpose of determining which path we will take. *I find this hard to explain to non-believers, but the reason why prostitution, overeating, gambling, opportunities to manipulate people all have their "rewards" is so we would have the choice. *Meaning, if raunchy sex with a hot pro didnt "feel good" than it wouldnt be much of a choice to not do it. *It goes back to original sin and the choices that were made. *The "forbidden fruit" of today has to be appealing, and we have to know inside that it is wrong or it wouldnt be a choice. *

The reasons for making choices is as much of a factor as the choice itself. *If I fear to not hook up with a pro only because of infectious diseases than my choice is not a rightious one, but a self-rightious one indeed. *

All of this being said, I would never try to claim to making the "right" choice ever time. *For myself and others who have the faith in God that I do, my "wrong" choices actually have much more sever consiquences. *I am human, and I still make mistakes, I just know who to apologize to first.

Laws:
This country was founded on Christian principals. *The norm was to have a relatively high moral standard (yes, yes plenty of evil practices. ie; slavery, witch hunts, etc) but the basis was of trust and brotherhood. *Society has changed and has begun to accept some very low standards on tv, in schools, etc. *I acknowledge that the right does act as a morality police that often over steps and mis-represents the beliefs of people like myself. *The basis for any support I give to these people is in the core essence to protect. *The item I mentioned early regarding a minor getting an abortion during schools hours is just one of the initiatives that has been supported by the right that I fully agree with. *I would request that anyone who has a daughter, or has a friend who has one; ask them if they want their daughter to be able to be legally excused from school to get an abortion, yet have it a law that says the school can not inform them. *I dont have a daughter, but I hope to have a child some day and the laws that are already on the books that most Christian lobbiest work towards removing are nasty, and I dont believe the founders of this country (not that they are relevant) would have planned on this. *

Again, Terry, I will get back to you on your input. *this was off the cuff.

genrec
12-21-2005, 04:15 PM
This country was founded on christian principals????

yes, the slaughtering of millions of innocent indians who were here centuries before the white man.....that is definately a christian principal???

this country was founded by mistake and then for greed, there was nothing christian about taking this land.

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 04:18 PM
Another small thing, those that relate nazi's and christians really couldnt be more off base. *yes, the roman catholics have a pope who was a nazi youth, but that is that organization, not anything I follow. *I also agree that there are plenty of racist who proclaim to be Christians, but I would doubt their resting place... but for those who like to capture stuff from the web:

About nuremburg trials...
Justice Jackson noted that ‘The Nazi Party always was predominantly anti-Christian in its ideology’, and ‘carried out a systematic and relentless repression of all Christian sects and churches.’2 He cited a decree of leading Nazi, Martin Bormann: ‘More and more the people must be separated from the churches and their organs, the pastors.’2 Jackson cited another defendant, the viciously anti-Jewish propagandist and pornographer Julius Streicher, who ‘complained that Christian teachings have stood in the way of “racial solution of the Jewish question in Europe.”’2



Instead, as documented in the current CEN Technical Journal,3 Nazis eagerly made use of the evolutionary concepts already entrenched in German academia. Note that the subtitle of Darwin’s The Origin of Species by means of natural selection was: [u]The preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life. Evolutionary teachings were simply carried to their logical conclusion by the Nazis who tried to exterminate the ‘inferior’ races like the Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs, as well as the ‘unfit’ (e.g. the handicapped). This is confirmed by the evolutionist Sir Arthur Keith, who wrote:

‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’4

It was not just Nazi Germany, but the Allied nations as well. In fact, even before WWII, evolution had inspired forced sterilization programs in Lynchburg, Virginia, USA,5 *and Vermont (Eugenics in Vermont).

However, the Western nations have not learned the lessons of the horrific wars and genocides this century. Evolution is today entrenched in our universities even more than it was in Nazi Germany.

pk

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 04:36 PM
that is the great thing about this country, i do not contend your right to belive in your religion. as a mater of fact i aplaud you for being disaplined in a belief (not to many people hold them selvs to anything any more). now on the other hand all i was trying to piont out is how most christians are veary judgemental and dont extend the same courtacy. as you said in your post, you think abortion is moraly wrong so you want to see laws changed to prohibit abortion. well i think a "woman" not a minor should have a right to chose. basicly if you are christian dont have one. now as far as the minor being able to get an abortion with out parental consent, i cant say i agree with that. a minor can not even have thier ear pierced with out consent so how can they have a medical prosedure such as an abortion? i will give you that one O0 but at the same time with the prolife/prochiose camps its give an inch take a mile. most people saw this minor law as a precursor to another go at roe vrs wade and voted it down.

basicly here is what i am looking for, i dont force my belief's on you and you dont force your belief's on me. as such i dont try to out law you right to practice any religon of your choise, and in turn you dont tkae away the right for a woman to chose,or try to make prayer standard in schools, ext ext. peacfull coexistance and true tolerance, that is the only way. at the end of the day we are all americans.

Terry S
12-21-2005, 04:41 PM
Instead, as documented in the current CEN Technical Journal,3 Nazis eagerly made use of the evolutionary concepts already entrenched in German academia. Note that the subtitle of Darwin’s The Origin of Species by means of natural selection was: The preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life. Evolutionary teachings were simply carried to their logical conclusion by the Nazis who tried to exterminate the ‘inferior’ races like the Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs, as well as the ‘unfit’ (e.g. the handicapped). This is confirmed by the evolutionist Sir Arthur Keith, who wrote:


That sounds a whole lot like a replay of the crusades and the inquisition to me... Those are some of christianities "crowning glories".

Also, the Nazi regime killed thousands of Atheists for not believing in god at many of the death camps, including Auschwitz. The Nazi's were social evolutionists, not theological evolutionists. Again, a different brand of evolution.

Terry S

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 04:43 PM
also just for note, i was not saying the catholics and nazis where in bed with eachother (even though they wher for a time). i was showing how alot of the mind controll the nazis used was close to what the bible uses, you know eaternal damnation and all that nasty stuff.

Bills Evo
12-21-2005, 04:46 PM
This is great! I'm looking forward to jumping into this with both feet and more. I was a minister for several years and now I teach biology in High School, I have a B.S. and M.S. so I feel somewhat qualified to make a few comments. Oh yes, I usually spell correctly and use proper grammar for the most part, (I don't walk on water so I will most likely make some mistakes, not misteaks.) . First I shall take a nap. If anyone wishes to take some shots at me for my other posts, go for it. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 04:49 PM
This is great! I'm looking forward to jumping into this with both feet and more. I was a minister for several years and now I teach biology in High School, I have a B.S. and M.S. so I feel somewhat qualified to make a few comments. Oh yes, I usually spell correctly and use proper grammar for the most part, (I don't walk on water so I will most likely make some mistakes, not misteaks.) . First I shall take a nap. If anyone wishes to take some shots at me for my other posts, go for it. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill
there is so much i could say.................. but i wont

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 05:25 PM
also just for note, i was not saying the catholics and nazis where in bed with eachother (even though they wher for a time). i was showing how alot of the mind controll the nazis used was close to what the bible uses, you know eaternal damnation and all that nasty stuff.


but unfortunately "common man" was not allowed to read the bible for the majority of the time that it has been in existence, so mind control through the bible doest work for me, now on the other hand, mind control by controlling the consumption of the bible does work. If one reads the bible with a desire to understand it the truth can not be hidden, but if someone reads the bible with the purpose of proving their opinion it can usually be done as well.

Re: Womans rights to control their reproductive processes, I wont discuss this in great depth in a serial manner (ie; boards, IM, email, etc). roe v wade was decided on when i was two years old. If the vote for a type of initiative ever comes up, I will vote as my conscious leads. I have never, and will never speak to anyone who has done this (had an abortion) in a condemning manner, as I assume they are in enough pain to begin with. I do believe that option are there (adoption, etc) but that is between the mother, father, child (fetus) and God. I personally dont think that God looks at abortion much different than lying or any other sin but saying even that is typically too much for people to handle.

I love the fact that this topic is getting as much attention as it is. I can not think of a more important topic, well maybe a few more people doing some write-ups on their experience with n2o on their evos. just kidding. considering the time of year i think it is important to think about our existence a little more. cause y'all know Who the reason for the season is.

pk

gofaster87
12-21-2005, 05:30 PM
Get this religious garbage out of here. This is a political forum not the forum to preach about gods existance to us. Im sorry but this crap. I come here to read about political opinions not religious beliefs.

Terry S
12-21-2005, 05:31 PM
Well, we are all straying from the topic a lot actually. The post was originally about ID being allowed in a science class, and now we are making direct attacks/defences of christianity.

Personally, I can't stand god debates, just a total waste of time. You cant prove any format of god exists to me using bibles, so don't waste my time trying.

Terry S

rsmatt
12-21-2005, 05:37 PM
arrowevo ygpm.

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 05:54 PM
Well, we are all straying from the topic a lot actually. The post was originally about ID being allowed in a science class, and now we are making direct attacks/defences of christianity.

Personally, I can't stand god debates, just a total waste of time. You cant prove any format of god exists to me using bibles, so don't waste my time trying.

Terry S


would you accept the use of theological writtings based off of the followers of the bible and its teachings? let me know, please.

pk

Terry S
12-21-2005, 05:55 PM
Well, we are all straying from the topic a lot actually. The post was originally about ID being allowed in a science class, and now we are making direct attacks/defences of christianity.

Personally, I can't stand god debates, just a total waste of time. You cant prove any format of god exists to me using bibles, so don't waste my time trying.

Terry S


would you accept the use of theological writtings based off of the followers of the bible and its teachings?* let me know, please.

pk


Taking to PM's...

Terry S

gofaster87
12-21-2005, 06:06 PM
Why is it that everyone else can take religious crap to pm but you cannot? Are you special. Go start a thread labeled "religious" so others can stay out if they choose to.






Well, we are all straying from the topic a lot actually. The post was originally about ID being allowed in a science class, and now we are making direct attacks/defences of christianity.

Personally, I can't stand god debates, just a total waste of time. You cant prove any format of god exists to me using bibles, so don't waste my time trying.

Terry S


would you accept the use of theological writtings based off of the followers of the bible and its teachings?* let me know, please.

pk

genrec
12-21-2005, 06:51 PM
Well, we are all straying from the topic a lot actually. The post was originally about ID being allowed in a science class, and now we are making direct attacks/defences of christianity.

Personally, I can't stand god debates, just a total waste of time. You cant prove any format of god exists to me using bibles, so don't waste my time trying.

Terry S


would you accept the use of theological writtings based off of the followers of the bible and its teachings?* let me know, please.

pk


This is exactly what these people do......there is no end...if it cannot be duscussed here, now it goes to a PM....then it goes to religious literature......whatever it takes i guess.....there is no end in the born agains eyes in trying to persaude people they are right and how wrong you are with their scare tactics of a non-exsistant hell.....it is absolutely rediculous, i cannot understands ones devotion to the biggest waste of time and lie ever invented by man himself. sad.

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 07:13 PM
fyi, already taken it to pms. did so as soon as the first request came in. i see you are in heavy favor of censorship (that is a politically based statement, right?)

the original topic was a political topic based on religious perspectives, hence well, my perspective.

as far as this is what those people do, i am not one of "those" people no matter whom you are speaking of.

and i remember someone saying something about anything goes here...if you are easily offended leave, etc. i, my good man, am not easily offended, but perhaps others here are. ;)

gofaster87
12-21-2005, 07:36 PM
Edited my comments to be civil.

arrowevo
12-21-2005, 07:45 PM
Me, easily offended? Pretty funny. I do not think religious topics belong on this forum especially from a bible yielding fanatic that has to preach his beliefs.* Please dont tell me to leave, youre the fucking idiot that started preaching shortly after joining. By the way my family, not so much me,* is very religious but there is a time and a place. What religious fanatical group are you part of? I think this will really explain much of your behavior.


Ummm, well, if you read the entire thread you would know I was actually speaking to genrec at that point. i was in essence using his words against him. wasnt the original topic religious in content?

as far as group goes, hmmm. i have a wife. my parents and siblings live on the east coast...does that tell you enough? i am not a member of a formal church, but if you care to listen to some of the pastors whom i feel hit the nail on the head, tune into 107.9 (it works in orange county and part of sbd). i give my donations to various charitable organizations, typically in relief efforts. So what do you know about me now? I am a Christian, yes.

pk

genrec
12-21-2005, 07:59 PM
Me, easily offended? Pretty funny. I do not think religious topics belong on this forum especially from a bible yielding fanatic that has to preach his beliefs.* Please dont tell me to leave, youre the fucking idiot that started preaching shortly after joining. By the way my family, not so much me,* is very religious but there is a time and a place. What religious fanatical group are you part of? I think this will really explain much of your behavior.


Ummm, well, if you read the entire thread you would know I was actually speaking to genrec at that point.* i was in essence using his words against him.* wasnt the original topic religious in content?

as far as group goes, hmmm.* i have a wife.* my parents and siblings live on the east coast...does that tell you enough?* i am not a member of a formal church, but if you care to listen to some of the pastors whom i feel hit the nail on the head, tune into 107.9 (it works in orange county and part of sbd).* i give my donations to various charitable organizations, typically in relief efforts.* So what do you know about me now?* I am a Christian, yes.*

pk


Gotta love it once again, everytime you post, you have to throw out a source for us to maybe possibly check out, and just maybe we will all of a sudden be enlightened. Are you on a mission?? This is what you were taught?? Recruitment ? You give donations to charity's?? Does that make you better than us? Is that another point into the gates of heaven? Tell me this, is the reason you guys push so hard for everyone to believe is because once the whole entire world believes, you actually think Jesus will be resurrected?

genrec
12-21-2005, 08:04 PM
This country was founded on christian principals????

yes, the slaughtering of millions of innocent indians who were here centuries before the white man.....that is definately a christian principal???

this country was founded by mistake and then for greed, there was nothing christian about taking this land.


Arrowevo, you never responded to this, i would like to know how the slaughtering of millions of indians is christian?

Chris in SD
12-21-2005, 09:00 PM
This country was founded on christian principals????

yes, the slaughtering of millions of innocent indians who were here centuries before the white man.....that is definately a christian principal???

this country was founded by mistake and then for greed, there was nothing christian about taking this land.


Arrowevo, you never responded to this, i would like to know how the slaughtering of millions of indians is christian?


That wasn't "Christian" per se... that was the Mormons... LOL :knuppel2:

Is this thread part of the "War on Christmas"? :roll:

genrec
12-21-2005, 09:07 PM
This country was founded on christian principals????

yes, the slaughtering of millions of innocent indians who were here centuries before the white man.....that is definately a christian principal???

this country was founded by mistake and then for greed, there was nothing christian about taking this land.


Arrowevo, you never responded to this, i would like to know how the slaughtering of millions of indians is christian?


That wasn't "Christian" per se... that was the Mormons... LOL* *:knuppel2:

Is this thread part of the "War on Christmas"?* *:roll:


Happy Holidays Chris!

Chris in SD
12-21-2005, 09:09 PM
Happy Kwanzaa, my back-licking friend! ;)

Terry S
12-22-2005, 09:23 AM
Ahhh 107.9. I see those taggings on the 55 freeway on my way home from work everyday. Thankfully, they get taken down pretty quick.

One day I listened to that station for my hour drive home. Reminded me of the Trinity channel, but more histerical and fanatical.* :D I laughed more listening to that than the tom leykis show.* :2funny:

Again, this thread is about how a federal district court was stuck deciding the legality of mentioning philosophy in a biology class and how some very very very large and powerful lobby groups argued the two sides of the arguement. Levelheadedness (is that a word?) won the day, and those responsible for instigating this trial were sacked prior to its conclusion.

Yes being on one side or the other could be viewed as a political position, BUT REMEMBER PREACHING A RELIGION OR EVEN MENTIONING ONE IS NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE TOPIC. ID IS NOT CHRISTIANITY EVEN THOUGH IT FITS.

Thanks.

Terry S

Chris in SD
12-22-2005, 10:53 AM
Two words to describe intelligent design: Adriana Lima :smitten:

EvoPwr
12-22-2005, 04:55 PM
Saw this, this morning.....This is freakin great.

I'm tired of these Right Wing Christian Finatics always whining and getting there way.

Psshhh...trying to teach fairy tales in a Science Class, the nerve of these religious freaks, always trying to impose their beliefs on others.


can i get a witness :2funny:

genrec
12-22-2005, 05:41 PM
Saw this, this morning.....This is freakin great.

I'm tired of these Right Wing Christian Finatics always whining and getting there way.

Psshhh...trying to teach fairy tales in a Science Class, the nerve of these religious freaks, always trying to impose their beliefs on others.


can i get a witness :2funny:


AMEN!

Terry S
12-30-2005, 01:48 PM
More fuel for the ID vs. Evolution debate.. From CNN even!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/12/30/king.kong.islands.reut/index.html

Terry S

Highrever
03-03-2006, 05:54 PM
What if Jeebus really is Jehovas Witness and only 21 of us get into heaven? It would be like finding out there's only 21 Playstation 3's available at launch for the whole world, man that is some popcorn and sofa fodder.

itsnino
03-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Elohim saves all... =)