SAFC Tuning Help

[superman105]

Hey finially Have some time to play with my SAFC today

here is my first log of the day with SAFC setting at
2K -7
2.6K -7
3K -8
3.6K -10
4K -12
4.6K -9
5K -13
5.6K -15
6K -15
6.6K -15
7K -15

RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1
2508 12 0.94
2602 9 0.94
2695 9 0.94
2781 8 0.94
2879 8 0.92
3004 7 0.94
3168 6 0.94
3301 5 0.94
3434 4 0.96
3590 6 0.96
3730 5 0.96
3891 6 0.96
4035 7 0.96
4188 7 0.96
4324 8 0.96
4441 8 0.96
4590 8 0.98
4770 8 0.98
4918 9 0.98
5055 10 0.98
5195 10 0.98
5313 10 0.98
5426 10 0.98
5582 10 0.98
5637 13 0.98
5770 11 0.98
5914 12 0.98
6066 14 0.98
6188 13 0.98
6320 12 0.98
6410 14 0.98
6512 14 1
6645 15 1
6758 16 1
6844 17 1
6957 18 1
7027 19 1
7129 19 1
7219 19 1


so I think I'm running very rich in a lot of the areas and I took out some fuel
and did the following setting

2K -8
2.6K -8
3K -8
3.6K -11
4K -12
4.6K -14
5K -17
5.6K -20
6K -20
6.6K -21
7K -21

here is the log

RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1
2473 13 0.92
2555 13 0.92
2645 12 0.9
2734 11 0.92
2844 9 0.92
2941 6 0.92
3051 5 0.92
3176 4 0.92
3305 4 0.92
3441 3 0.94
3641 4 0.94
3801 5 0.94
3918 6 0.94
4074 6 0.94
4227 6 0.94
4367 7 0.94
4492 7 0.94
4641 7 0.94
4781 9 0.94
4910 9 0.94
5066 8 0.94
5227 7 0.94
5352 8 0.94
5477 9 0.94
5609 7 0.96
5750 8 0.94
5891 10 0.96
6020 11 0.96
6156 10 0.96
6254 11 0.96
6379 10 0.96
6492 11 0.96
6543 13 0.96
6668 14 0.96
6773 15 0.96
6879 16 0.96
6984 16 0.96
7094 17 0.98
7211 18 0.98
7254 18 0.96


How come it log looks worest than when it's rich ?
should I lean out more ??

[DTunedEvoX]

Every time the timing dips your getting knock and timing is getting pulled =(

[rsmatt]

try this and see how it works,

2k* * -6
2.6* *-6
3* * * -7
3.6* *-8
4* * * -11
4.6* *-10
5* * * -15
5.6* *-18
6* * * -19
6.6* *-21
7* * * -21

try to shoot for .94-.96 on top. also try to come into the 3100-3800 timing drop just a bit on the rich side, say .96-.98. post up another log so we can see how it goes.

[turbolarry]

Lean it out a little more; from 5500 RPM's on up. And like rsmatt said richen it up down low. Log it and see what happens. O0

[taenaive]

timing pull is not always about knocking. It could result from many things like maf reading error, putting more load at the RPM or you are actually sucking in more air at that rpm..etc. What injectors are you using? and 91 gas? It looks like your injector size is too big for your power.

[lagcisco]

what do you use to get these readings?

[turbolarry]

what do you use to get these readings?


A logger (Palm OS data logger for my cheap ass);
http://students.db.erau.edu/~szabafab/stein/

[taenaive]

Hey superman! can you post your logged time too? those time intervals can tell you more stories. I can estimate the WHP with that logged time vs RPM.

[superman105]

Hey superman! can you post your logged time too? those time intervals can tell you more stories. I can estimate the WHP with that logged time vs RPM.


oh okie wow !
please Estimate this

02:29.6 2844 9 0.92
02:29.8 2941 6 0.92
02:30.0 3051 5 0.92
02:30.2 3176 4 0.92
02:30.4 3305 4 0.92
02:30.6 3441 3 0.94
02:30.8 3641 4 0.94
02:31.0 3801 5 0.94
02:31.2 3918 6 0.94
02:31.4 4074 6 0.94
02:31.5 4227 6 0.94
02:31.7 4367 7 0.94
02:31.9 4492 7 0.94
02:32.1 4641 7 0.94
02:32.3 4781 9 0.94
02:32.5 4910 9 0.94
02:32.7 5066 8 0.94
02:32.8 5227 7 0.94
02:33.0 5352 8 0.94
02:33.2 5477 9 0.94
02:33.4 5609 7 0.96
02:33.6 5750 8 0.94
02:33.9 5891 10 0.96
02:34.1 6020 11 0.96
02:34.2 6156 10 0.96
02:34.4 6254 11 0.96
02:34.6 6379 10 0.96
02:34.8 6492 11 0.96
02:35.0 6543 13 0.96
02:35.2 6668 14 0.96
02:35.4 6773 15 0.96
02:35.5 6879 16 0.96
02:35.7 6984 16 0.96
02:36.0 7094 17 0.98
02:36.1 7211 18 0.98
02:36.4 7254 18 0.96

[superman105]

tks for all the help guys
it have been raining so I have not been driving the EVO

[taenaive]

C:\TEMP\taelogEvo>logger5.exe superman.log
file opened
The file 'data2' was opened
2844.00: 9.00, 0.92, 100.00, 149.600 torque = N/A
2941.00: 6.00, 0.92, 100.00, 149.800 tq= 156.94 hp= 87.92
3051.00: 5.00, 0.92, 100.00, 150.000 tq= 177.98 hp= 103.43
3176.00: 4.00, 0.92, 100.00, 150.200 tq= 202.25 hp= 122.35
3305.00: 4.00, 0.92, 100.00, 150.400 tq= 208.72 hp= 131.39
3441.00: 3.00, 0.94, 100.00, 150.600 tq= 220.03 hp= 144.21
3641.00: 4.00, 0.94, 100.00, 150.800 tq= 323.59 hp= 224.42
3801.00: 5.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.000 tq= 258.88 hp= 187.43
3918.00: 6.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.200 tq= 189.30 hp= 141.27
4074.00: 6.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.400 tq= 252.40 hp= 195.86
4227.00: 6.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.500 tq= 495.06 hp= 398.59
4367.00: 7.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.700 tq= 226.52 hp= 188.42
4492.00: 7.00, 0.94, 100.00, 151.900 tq= 202.25 hp= 173.05
4641.00: 7.00, 0.94, 100.00, 152.100 tq= 241.06 hp= 213.10
4781.00: 9.00, 0.94, 100.00, 152.300 tq= 226.52 hp= 206.28
4910.00: 9.00, 0.94, 100.00, 152.500 tq= 208.72 hp= 195.20
5066.00: 8.00, 0.94, 100.00, 152.700 tq= 252.40 hp= 243.56
5227.00: 7.00, 0.94, 100.00, 152.800 tq= 520.95 hp= 518.66
5352.00: 8.00, 0.94, 100.00, 153.000 tq= 202.25 hp= 206.18
5477.00: 9.00, 0.94, 100.00, 153.200 tq= 202.25 hp= 210.99
5609.00: 7.00, 0.96, 100.00, 153.400 tq= 213.57 hp= 228.18
5750.00: 8.00, 0.94, 100.00, 153.600 tq= 228.12 hp= 249.84
5891.00: 10.00, 0.96, 100.00, 153.900 tq= 152.09 hp= 170.66
6020.00: 11.00, 0.96, 100.00, 154.100 tq= 208.70 hp= 239.31
6156.00: 10.00, 0.96, 100.00, 154.200 tq= 440.12 hp= 516.07
6254.00: 11.00, 0.96, 100.00, 154.400 tq= 158.56 hp= 188.88
6379.00: 10.00, 0.96, 100.00, 154.600 tq= 202.23 hp= 245.72
6492.00: 11.00, 0.96, 100.00, 154.800 tq= 182.83 hp= 226.08
6543.00: 13.00, 0.96, 100.00, 155.000 tq= 82.52 hp= 102.84
6668.00: 14.00, 0.96, 100.00, 155.200 tq= 202.25 hp= 256.87
6773.00: 15.00, 0.96, 100.00, 155.400 tq= 169.89 hp= 219.17
6879.00: 16.00, 0.96, 100.00, 155.500 tq= 342.98 hp= 449.41
6984.00: 16.00, 0.96, 100.00, 155.700 tq= 169.89 hp= 226.00
7094.00: 17.00, 0.98, 100.00, 156.000 tq= 118.65 hp= 160.32
7211.00: 18.00, 0.98, 100.00, 156.100 tq= 378.58 hp= 519.98
7254.00: 18.00, 0.96, 100.00, 156.400 tq= 46.38 hp= 64.09
tq total over 3k rpm = 18755.63
total time above 3k rpm = 25.952
normalized time for 3k~7k = 5.535
normalized time for 3.5k~5.5k = 2.475
normalized time for 5.5k~7k = 2.366
RPM range 3500 ~ 4000 tq= 257.26 Hp= 183.76
RPM range 4000 ~ 4500 tq= 294.06 Hp= 238.05
RPM range 4500 ~ 5000 tq= 225.43 Hp= 203.96
RPM range 5000 ~ 5500 tq= 294.46 Hp= 294.46
RPM range 5500 ~ 6000 tq= 197.93 Hp= 216.78
RPM range 6000 ~ 6500 tq= 238.49 Hp= 283.92
RPM range 6500 ~ 7000 tq= 193.50 Hp= 248.79
RPM range 7000 ~ 7500 tq= 181.20 Hp= 250.23
Number of files closed by _fcloseall: 2

Ok, here is the estimate of WHP. It seems very low! did you do the 3rd gear pull?

[taenaive]

Here is my car's reading from today. I have similar mod setup as yours!
Well... my car is RS and I did some weight loss on my evo (130 lbs less than stock RS)
so, mine should give 15WHP more than yours.

tq total over 3k rpm = 13129.73
total time above 3k rpm =* 15.409
normalized time for 3k~7k =* *4.694
normalized time for 3.5k~5.5k =* *2.072
normalized time for 5.5k~7k =* *1.795
RPM range 3500 ~ 4000 tq=* 300.22 Hp=* 214.44
RPM range 4000 ~ 4500 tq=* 323.22 Hp=* 261.66
RPM range 4500 ~ 5000 tq=* 313.63 Hp=* 283.76
RPM range 5000 ~ 5500 tq=* 271.49 Hp=* 271.49
RPM range 5500 ~ 6000 tq=* 308.68 Hp=* 338.07
RPM range 6000 ~ 6500 tq=* 279.08 Hp=* 332.24
RPM range 6500 ~ 7000 tq=* 251.28 Hp=* 323.07
RPM range 7000 ~ 7500 tq=* 245.80 Hp=* 339.44
Number of files closed by _fcloseall: 2

[superman105]

yes it was a third gear pull
what PSI are you boosting ?

I'm at 19 psi

[taenaive]

20 psi But, I am really well tunned. I don't think I can make it better.


yes it was a third gear pull
what PSI are you boosting ?

I'm at 19 psi

[leaveit2bevo]

how are you getting those HP and TQ numbers? do you really think they are accurate?

[Terry S]

I cant see how those numbers could be accurate... Bouncing around from 230hp to 520 then down to 180 then up to 250 within 350rpms? Sounds like there's some errors in the calculations...

Terry S

[taenaive]

It is not accurate at all. But this gives you the rough idea. if you keep logging and produce these numbers. You will see the average and consistencey. then, it becomes somewhat accurate.

[leaveit2bevo]

It is not accurate at all. But this gives you the rough idea. if you keep logging and produce these numbers. You will see the average and consistencey. then, it becomes somewhat accurate.


I got you now

[taenaive]

I cant see how those numbers could be accurate... Bouncing around from 230hp to 520 then down to 180 then up to 250 within 350rpms? Sounds like there's some errors in the calculations...

Terry S

Road dynoing is different from stationary dyno.* street terrain is not flat, there are bumps and sometimes one wheel gets off the ground and slip and get caught and can be affected by sudden gush of the wind and on and on...etc. Yes, there are errors on logger side also but it seems to get even out when you add it all up. Also, the head wind speed is very important. high rpm range can be affected by the wind. evo is not a very aerodynamic car. However, If you keep logging it, You will see the average. and the average numbers are very usuful for the tune.

[Terry S]

I cant see how those numbers could be accurate... Bouncing around from 230hp to 520 then down to 180 then up to 250 within 350rpms? Sounds like there's some errors in the calculations...

Terry S

Road dynoing is different from stationary dyno. street terrain is not flat, there are bumps and sometimes one wheel gets off the ground and slip and get caught and can be affected by sudden gush of the wind and on and on...etc. Yes, there are errors on logger side also but it seems to get even out when you add it all up.


I understand that the conditions may be different on the road, but when your error margin is almost as big as the anticipated result (~+- 250hp), why would you bother with it?

Terry S

[taenaive]

Agerage is the key here. when you do physics experiment and collect data would you consider some out of range number due to some reading error and throw it away? and if you keep experimenting, you will see the consistency. and that consistency should give you the good idea of what is going on.
and +-250 hp does happen when your ACD and differentials are working( motor will have noload at certain time and get too much when the gear grips it).
you just don't see it on the stationary dyno because they don't do any work at all.






I cant see how those numbers could be accurate... Bouncing around from 230hp to 520 then down to 180 then up to 250 within 350rpms? Sounds like there's some errors in the calculations...

Terry S

Road dynoing is different from stationary dyno. street terrain is not flat, there are bumps and sometimes one wheel gets off the ground and slip and get caught and can be affected by sudden gush of the wind and on and on...etc. Yes, there are errors on logger side also but it seems to get even out when you add it all up.


I understand that the conditions may be different on the road, but when your error margin is almost as big as the anticipated result (~+- 250hp), why would you bother with it?

Terry S

[taenaive]

This is why logger reading is useful.
It was logged by september without cams.
just turbo back, intake, MBC and few other mods.

C:\TEMP\taelogEvo>logger5.exe 09-23-05.log
file opened
The file 'data2' was opened
3734.00: 14.00, 0.92, 100.20, 16.810 torque = N/A
3879.00:* 8.00, 0.92, 100.20, 17.070 tq=* 180.46 hp=* 133.34
4082.00:* 2.00, 0.94, 100.20, 17.360 tq=* 226.51 hp=* 176.12
4270.00:* 2.00, 0.92, 100.20, 17.620 tq=* 233.98 hp=* 190.30
4508.00:* 3.00, 0.94, 100.20, 17.880 tq=* 296.21 hp=* 254.35
4727.00:* 2.00, 0.94, 100.20, 18.150 tq=* 262.47 hp=* 236.32
4973.00:* 3.00, 0.94, 100.20, 18.430 tq=* 284.30 hp=* 269.30
5199.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 18.690 tq=* 281.27 hp=* 278.54
5422.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 18.950 tq=* 277.54 hp=* 286.63
5617.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 19.210 tq=* 242.69 hp=* 259.66
5840.00:* 8.00, 0.94, 100.20, 19.480 tq=* 267.26 hp=* 297.30
6008.00:* 9.00, 0.94, 100.20, 19.760 tq=* 194.15 hp=* 222.18
6230.00:* 8.00, 0.94, 100.20, 20.030 tq=* 266.06 hp=* 315.73
6414.00:* 9.00, 0.94, 100.20, 20.290 tq=* 229.00 hp=* 279.77
6574.00: 12.00, 0.94, 100.20, 20.550 tq=* 199.13 hp=* 249.35
6762.00: 10.00, 0.94, 100.20, 20.810 tq=* 233.98 hp=* 301.37
6945.00: 12.00, 0.94, 100.20, 21.070 tq=* 227.76 hp=* 301.29
7074.00: 14.00, 0.96, 100.20, 21.350 tq=* 149.08 hp=* 200.88
7227.00: 15.00, 0.96, 100.20, 21.620 tq=* 183.37 hp=* 252.42
tq total over 3k rpm = 10155.03
total time above 3k rpm =* 13.787
normalized time for 3k~7k =* *5.431
normalized time for 3.5k~5.5k =* *2.566
normalized time for 5.5k~7k =* *2.174
RPM range 3500 ~ 4000 tq=* 180.46 Hp=* 128.90
RPM range 4000 ~ 4500 tq=* 230.25 Hp=* 186.39
RPM range 4500 ~ 5000 tq=* 280.99 Hp=* 254.23
RPM range 5000 ~ 5500 tq=* 279.41 Hp=* 279.41
RPM range 5500 ~ 6000 tq=* 254.98 Hp=* 279.26
RPM range 6000 ~ 6500 tq=* 229.74 Hp=* 273.50
RPM range 6500 ~ 7000 tq=* 220.29 Hp=* 283.23
RPM range 7000 ~ 7500 tq=* 166.22 Hp=* 229.55
Number of files closed by _fcloseall: 2

C:\TEMP\taelogEvo>


Then, I just added cams by November.

C:\TEMP\taelogEvo>logger5.exe 11-23-05.log
file opened
The file 'data2' was opened
2301.00: 17.00, 0.86, 100.20, 61.700 torque = N/A
2367.00: 16.00, 0.88, 100.20, 61.930 tq=* *92.86 hp=* *41.86
2496.00: 16.00, 0.88, 100.20, 62.150 tq=* 189.74 hp=* *90.21
2582.00: 13.00, 0.88, 100.20, 62.380 tq=* 120.99 hp=* *59.51
2703.00: 12.00, 0.90, 100.20, 62.610 tq=* 170.24 hp=* *87.65
2824.00:* 9.00, 0.90, 100.20, 62.840 tq=* 170.24 hp=* *91.57
2945.00:* 7.00, 0.90, 100.20, 63.060 tq=* 177.97 hp=* *99.83
3125.00:* 6.00, 0.90, 100.20, 63.290 tq=* 253.24 hp=* 150.74
3273.00:* 3.00, 0.92, 100.20, 63.520 tq=* 208.22 hp=* 129.81
3457.00: -3.00, 0.92, 100.20, 63.750 tq=* 258.87 hp=* 170.46
3672.00:* 0.00, 0.92, 100.20, 63.970 tq=* 316.23 hp=* 221.18
3875.00:* 1.00, 0.92, 100.20, 64.190 tq=* 298.58 hp=* 220.38
4082.00:* 2.00, 0.94, 100.20, 64.440 tq=* 267.93 hp=* 208.32
4266.00:* 2.00, 0.92, 100.20, 64.660 tq=* 270.64 hp=* 219.91
4496.00:* 1.00, 0.94, 100.20, 64.900 tq=* 310.11 hp=* 265.57
4695.00:* 2.00, 0.94, 100.20, 65.120 tq=* 292.70 hp=* 261.76
4891.00:* 3.00, 0.94, 100.20, 65.340 tq=* 288.30 hp=* 268.58
5105.00:* 4.00, 0.94, 100.20, 65.580 tq=* 288.53 hp=* 280.56
5262.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 65.800 tq=* 230.92 hp=* 231.45
5461.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 66.020 tq=* 292.71 hp=* 304.47
5652.00:* 5.00, 0.94, 100.20, 66.250 tq=* 268.72 hp=* 289.29
5828.00:* 6.00, 0.94, 100.20, 66.480 tq=* 247.61 hp=* 274.87
6016.00:* 9.00, 0.94, 100.20, 66.700 tq=* 276.53 hp=* 316.88
6191.00: 11.00, 0.94, 100.20, 66.940 tq=* 235.94 hp=* 278.24
6379.00: 13.00, 0.94, 100.20, 67.160 tq=* 276.52 hp=* 335.98
6543.00: 12.00, 0.94, 100.20, 67.380 tq=* 241.23 hp=* 300.64
6695.00: 12.00, 0.94, 100.20, 67.620 tq=* 204.94 hp=* 261.34
6863.00: 14.00, 0.94, 100.20, 67.840 tq=* 247.11 hp=* 323.03
7008.00: 15.00, 0.94, 100.20, 68.080 tq=* 195.50 hp=* 260.96
7172.00: 15.00, 0.96, 100.20, 68.300 tq=* 241.22 hp=* 329.53
7297.00: 16.00, 0.96, 100.20, 68.520 tq=* 183.86 hp=* 255.54
tq total over 3k rpm = 15068.42
total time above 3k rpm =* 18.653
normalized time for 3k~7k =* *4.952
normalized time for 3.5k~5.5k =* *2.219
normalized time for 5.5k~7k =* *1.993
RPM range 3500 ~ 4000 tq=* 307.41 Hp=* 219.58
RPM range 4000 ~ 4500 tq=* 282.89 Hp=* 229.01
RPM range 4500 ~ 5000 tq=* 290.50 Hp=* 262.83
RPM range 5000 ~ 5500 tq=* 270.72 Hp=* 270.72
RPM range 5500 ~ 6000 tq=* 258.16 Hp=* 282.75
RPM range 6000 ~ 6500 tq=* 263.00 Hp=* 313.09
RPM range 6500 ~ 7000 tq=* 231.09 Hp=* 297.12
RPM range 7000 ~ 7500 tq=* 206.86 Hp=* 285.66
Number of files closed by _fcloseall: 2

RPM range data shows clear improvements and gives me good estimate that how much I made.

[Terry S]

Yea, those two examples look fine and I see where your comming from.

But look at the one you did for superman. It's haywire.

Terry S

[taenaive]

It could have been the rough road or something. I got that sort of reading before when my car lifted to the air for very short period of time. Or his transfer case is screwed :)
Or even worse, kocking like crazy.


Yea, those two examples look fine and I see where your comming from.

But look at the one you did for superman. It's haywire.

Terry S

[Terry S]

It could have been the rough road or something. I got that sort of reading before when my car lifted to the air for very short period of time. Or his transfer case is screwed :)
Or even worse. kocking like crazy.


:2funny: Way to be the bearer of bad news. ;)

Terry S

[taenaive]

Don't worry superman!* :D
let's hope that it was just the rough road. Also, don't pay too much attention on individual values. that RPM range data is telling you better stories. After all, all these are just rough relative estimates. ;)

[DTunedEvoX]

My ECU+ road data logs and gives you a dyno graph .. pretty accurate too!

Bump for results!

[taenaive]

Yeah dang, that is what I wanna buy next time. But then, I can't decide. there are XEDE which has a knock buffer and the all mighty AEM EMS.


My ECU+ road data logs and gives you a dyno graph .. pretty accurate too!

Bump for results!

[earlyapex]

ECU+ logs knock as well. Seperate processor and all.

[Miss Evo8]

:mitsu:

[DTunedEvoX]

The ECU+ has a knock buffer that you can set that lets you pull timing, and add fuel when the knock reaches a certain voltage :D

But you cant beat freeware ... or can you? kekeke

[taenaive]

I just put 680 cc injectors on my car. Now I lost 35WHP! :D
I will start tunning and let you know the outcome guys.
I think 680cc is too big for my car.

[C-Spec]

I just put 680 cc injectors on my car. Now I lost 35WHP! :D
I will start tunning and let you know the outcome guys.
I think 680cc is too big for my car.


you got pm

[taenaive]

Ok, I got back up to 315 whp now after only 2 tunning run on the way to work. :laugh:
I think I can get up to where I was or may be better with this 680cc. It is still too rich as batman!
I might break my 330whp record soon.

[taenaive]

Dang! I am not rich anymore. I made more than 340WHP! beating the previous 330WHP level.
I added LICP though.... And it is close to 21 PSi now.