WTF up with Administrator Clearance???

[Richard EVO]

We come to this forum to share information about local track events.* Why should we have to clear it with an Administrator???

I am not a vendor.* I don't make a nickel off any post about an HPDE event.* If we can't share information freely here, we will just go somewhere else and do it.* Tell that to your Sponsors.* :knuppel2:

[Richard EVO]

To adminisrator/moderator -

You moved this thread to site administration to hide it from members who frequent the Motorsports Forum, because you know they are very unlikely to look at this forum. That's BS. If you are going to impose some idiotic new rule on the Motorsports Forum, you ought to allow free debate about it. Please move this thread back to the Motorsports Forum.

[Blaze]

Richard:

Which thread are you talking about?
What's the title?

I'll check it out for you.

[Miss Evo8]

Admin. please move Richards thred back! He always has information on trackdays that I am too lazy to look for myself! And it being in the motorsports section is very helpful!

[Ricardon]

Richard EVO...I don't know which thread you are referring to or which mod/admin allegedly move the thread. The way you are handling yourself with the situation, you have to admit, is very childish. Send a PM for christ's sake. Your drama thread fails here.

[Richard EVO]

Richard EVO...I don't know which thread you are referring to or which mod/admin allegedly move the thread. The way you are handling yourself with the situation, you have to admit, is very childish. Send a PM for christ's sake. Your drama thread fails here.


It's not my fault you don't know what's going on at your own website. Here's the thread I'm talking about, which is a Sticky on the Motorsports forum -- http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=19749.0

I am not being childish or dramatic. I am simply stating that if you restrict our ability to share information about track events here, you will have rendered the Motorsports Forum useless, and it will be necessary to go elsewhere to share infomation. The Motorsports and Regional forums of evolutionm come to mind as possible alternatives.

[Absinthe]

I'm with richard short of a descent explanation as to why we can't post about event like private trackdays or events we are atttending that we make ZERO money off this new rule is lame.

[Ricardon]

Ok is that supposed to be a threat? *You're going to take your all powerful information about track events to another website if we don't shape up? *I'm butthurt now man, I'll get right on it!

Now, back to the main issue here which has absolutely nothing to do with a thread being deleted or moved. *Has anyone ever told you that it's generally bad form to overreact and start mashing your keyboard every time you get upset? *Let me walk you through the rational thing to do here, see if you can wrap your head around this bit:

1) You log on and see that your thread is missing.
2) Because you think that what you posted is relevant information, you are a bit upset by this.
3) You send a PM to a moderator or Admin and politely ask what happened to your thread.
4) You decide against making a pointless thread in a main forum (because for all you know the forum was getting shuffled and your post was temporarily unviewable), because afterall it doesnt warrant its own thread.
5) A moderater or Admin gets back to you after investigating the issue, and all is solved without any needed drama.
6) You go about your happy Thursday.

Nope! *Here's what you did:

1) You see that your thread is missing.
2) Having absolutely no idea what happened, you fly off the handle and start mashing the keyboard in an inflamatory post just like a kid who's being camped by hackers in counterstrike.
3) You make false accusations about our moderators and admins personal integrity.
4) You make further accusations that we bend over for vendors (funniest part of your bullshit btw...I laughed)
5) You threaten to "take your business elswhere" so to speak (ok, sorry this actually was the funniest part, not the vendor stuff).

And please, for the love of God, don't even start with the "You should know what happens on your own website" bullshit. *If you would like to pay my car note, my rent, feed me etc...I'd be more than happy to stay home and moderate the site all day and look at every single thing that happens here. *Thanks for your feedback on that issue.

I'll be dead honest with you man...I enjoy the information that you post about track events and such. *they are a GREAT addition to the community here. *And that is what we are...this site exists for the community. *If you think this site exists for any other political/economic/whatever purposes you are mistaken. *we aren't in bed with anyone, and we aren't holding hands with anyone. *I don't know what happened to your thread, we are digging into it as we speak. *That being said, if you can't control yourself and resist the urge to just start mashing keys whenever you THINK something fishy is up...well...maybe you should just GTFO.

Thanks.

[Blaze]

Rob or Dino can probably explain this better then I.
But here goes....

1. If you post an event where you stand to make a profit, or where socal members would need to pay in order to cover the event, you must register as a vendor.

2. If you're posting a let's all meet @ in n out and drive up to big bear to do donuts in the snow while drinking delicious fruit smoothies and playing "here comes the rain again" @ high volume....well have at it.

3. If you are a member posting a caravan to say...HIN or some other show where members have to pay admission...that's fine as well. However, if you're Joe@SuperStreetTrackEvents and you start a thread inviting members to attend a paid event....not cool. Likewise if you're Joe's best bud and you're posting for him.

I hope that's a helps some. These are purely hypothetical scenarios btw.

Blaze

[Coolguy949]

It's not my fault you don't know what's going on at your own website.

Administrative and official decisions are made by drmosh or myself. Ricardon is an administrator because he was among the founders of the site and the amount of time and dedicated he has show to this site is admirable. The actual site and servers are owned by drmosh and myself.



I am not being childish or dramatic. I am simply stating that if you restrict our ability to share information about track events here, you will have rendered the Motorsports Forum useless, and it will be necessary to go elsewhere to share infomation. The Motorsports and Regional forums of evolutionm come to mind as possible alternatives.


No one reads the regional sections of EvoM or will even know about the motorsports section (i didnt even know about it and i've been reading EvoM regularly since 2002). Your implied threats mean nothing to me. Over the years EvoM and SoCalEvo have worked together in this area and Mark was a personal friend of mine who moved to So Cal because he admired what SoCalEvo.net had done to unite the Evo community here. If you think we're being strict on vendor rule, take a gander at EvoM's vendor policy.

Let me give some background on WHY this decision was made so maybe people will realize what we're doing here at SoCalEvo. For the last 3 years SoCalEvo has been supporting local track days and attending them regularly. Within the last year or so we've been implementing a vendor system where only supporting vendors can post their business ads in return for supporting the site. When you restrict vendor activities on the site, it needs to be enforced in every aspect. It's not fair to pick and chose what's enforced and what's not enforced. For a while now track institutions have freely been able to post their track days on this site. We let that slide because no offical vendor had the desire to run track days until recently. SRT Motorsports hosts their own track days and they support the site. It isnt fair to them to allow other track organizations to post their own events on the site. This action was not prompted by anything SRT said, it's a preemtive move on our part so that it doesn't need to be addressed later when someone like SRT has concerns about it. We always knew we were going to enforce rule on track institutions, we were just waiting for the time. We have a long term timeline of things that are getting implemented in stages so it doesnt come all at once. This way members can get used to changes more rapidly without confusion.

The new rule does not restrict members from posting about an event, it simply restricts non-registered track organizations from posting their own events. However, the SoCalEvo.net staff is very sharp and we can tell if someone is promoting an event for a track organization. Just like any vendor situation, if someone is posing as a member but is an un-registered vendor promoting their own product it is grounds for a temporary removal from the site.

The vendor registration isn't too much to ask for plus we will offer value-added benefits such as official SoCalEvo endorsement of the event and a listing of the upcoming event in our official calendar. If the event is large enough we will work with that vendor and even post it on the front page of the site.

We put all these rules and changes in effect to better the experience for all members and supporters. By filtering the content in the site it allows us to filter out potential scams and other problems it may bring in to the community. Vendors have to be approved by us in order to be part of the site. In a world where money is a major driving force, enforcing these rules using money as the catalyst is the only way to truly curb unwanted problems.

[Ricardon]

Rob > Me in the subtle dept.

[Richard EVO]

Rob or Dino can probably explain this better then I.
But here goes....

1. If you post an event where you stand to make a profit, or where socal members would need to pay in order to cover the event, you must register as a vendor.

2. If you're posting a let's all meet @ in n out and drive up to big bear to do donuts in the snow while drinking delicious fruit smoothies and playing "here comes the rain again" @ high volume....well have at it.

3. If you are a member posting a caravan to say...HIN or some other show where members have to pay admission...that's fine as well. However, if you're Joe@SuperStreetTrackEvents and you start a thread inviting members to attend a paid event....not cool. Likewise if you're Joe's best bud and you're posting for him.

I hope that's a helps some. These are purely hypothetical scenarios btw.

Blaze


None of those scenarios is what I am talking about. *I am posting an event, which charges $$$ to participants, but for which I am not the vendor. *I'm just posting so the local EVO peeps will know about the event and can go sign up and pay for it if they want to. *I don't profit at all. *I just like to see lots of EVOs represent at the local racetrack events.

Apparently, the fact that Speed Ventures or Redline or whoever may profit from the event, even though I have nothing to do with their ownership and get no commission, will prevent me from posting about the event unless I clear it with an administrator first. *That makes no sense whatsoever and makes the Motorsports forum useless for one of its primary purposes.

As for Ricardon, his last post here is a confused, angry overreaction which I will not respond to. *My concerns are legitimate and I want to know if I should start making other plans for spreading the word about track events in Calif. and Nev.

[drmosh]

Richard,

I will keep this short... stop being the master reactive jackass.

Like I said if you own something like a track company, you are not allowed to post unless you are a vendor. If you yourself say... "hey guys... there's a track event here, who's going..." we might not make such a big deal about it.

[Coolguy949]

Apparently, the fact that Speed Ventures or Redline or whoever may profit from the event, even though I have nothing to do with their ownership and get no commission, will prevent me from posting about the event unless I clear it with an administrator first. That makes no sense whatsoever and makes the Motorsports forum useless for one of its primary purposes.

I think you're misunderstanding the rule. You can post about an event, but if we detect that you're posting in response to a request one of those organizations has made to you then that's where it's a problem. You can talk and post about the event as much as you want. This rule was geared for vendors, not members.

[Ricardon]

As for Ricardon, his last post here is a confused, angry overreaction which I will not respond to. *My concerns are legitimate and I want to know if I should start making other plans for spreading the word about track events in Calif. and Nev.


Here ya go! (http://www.evolutionm.net)

kthnxbai.

[Blaze]

None of those scenarios is what I am talking about.

Richard:

If you aren't talking about fruit smoothies and Eurythmic's music, then we have nothing to discuss!

:2funny:

Seriously though. Those situations were hypothetical and just offered as a loose guidline.

Don't hate me for my taste in music!

Blaze

[indianevodriver]

what the hell is a Eurythmic?

[WavMixer]

Rob, thanks for clarifying the matter. I personaly check the Motorsports Activities forum on this site on a regular basis and use it as a guide to plan my track days. I do understand where you are coming from wanting to collect money from people making money on this site. This is only fair. I also appreciate the posts Richard puts up informing us of track events. It would seem to me that nothing will change as far as Richard's abilty to post about the local track events. So it looks like all is well that ends well.

[Coolguy949]

Yes, what you are saying is 100% correct. We hope with the money we can make the site much better for everyone. We added a second database server a couple weeks ago to help with load based problems that may occur. The site runs nice and smooth for hitting 4TB per month. :)

[Senshi]

This seems like it will be difficult to mod. I understand what rob and dino are trying to do and arn't really against it. But I really do side with richardevo since he really does help inform members about future track events. I myself have been "guilty" of posting up a track event that i dont make any profit off of but would like fellow evo owners to join because its alot more fun that way. As i said im not against this rule if you admins can do a good job of modding this. Good Luck if not i think socal will loose one of the main reasons i come to the site. Not saying that i would leave i still love SoCalEVO.net

[Ricardon]

It would seem to me that nothing will change as far as Richard's abilty to post about the local track events.

But, of course we needed the extra drama thread to be started. *GG! *Thanks Wav, for putting it a bit more eloquently than I can.

[Coolguy949]

This seems like it will be difficult to mod. I understand what rob and dino are trying to do and arn't really against it. But I really do side with richardevo since he really does help inform members about future track events. I myself have been "guilty" of posting up a track event that i dont make any profit off of but would like fellow evo owners to join because its alot more fun that way. As i said im not against this rule if you admins can do a good job of modding this. Good Luck if not i think socal will loose one of the main reasons i come to the site. Not saying that i would leave i still love SoCalEVO.net


Nothing will change for you. You can proceed as always.

[Richard EVO]

OK, so nothing will change. You could have said that in the first place. Reading the Sticky on the Motorsports forum literally does not get one to that conclusion.

So then it's ok to post up about future track events and include a link to the vendor's website, as long as I don't profit from it???

[Ricardon]

This seems like it will be difficult to mod. I understand what rob and dino are trying to do and arn't really against it. But I really do side with richardevo since he really does help inform members about future track events. I myself have been "guilty" of posting up a track event that i dont make any profit off of but would like fellow evo owners to join because its alot more fun that way. As i said im not against this rule if you admins can do a good job of modding this. Good Luck if not i think socal will loose one of the main reasons i come to the site. Not saying that i would leave i still love SoCalEVO.net


It's so simple to do Elijah. *I'll send you a PM so we can discuss it, but it's really very easy to moderate and very easy to understand. *We aren't going to moderate Richard or any of you that come out and say "hay guyzzz join me at teh race track on such and such date, and heres a link to sign up". *Come on brother, we wouldnt do that. *We don't want people that dont pay to advertise on the site to be able to advertise on the site. *I don't see how you guys can't see that this is no different than a word of mouth testimonial about an exhaust. *APS doesn't advertise here, but if someone does a write up about how bitchin ther APS exhaust is, its not going to get deleted because Road Race doesnt carry APS...that's lame, and we wouldnt do that.

[Senshi]

Yea i def understand i just think that what made people question what the rules were was the way its put in the sticky. what im saying is that personally i understand the me or RichardEVO arnt really going to have to worry about posting up track events, unless we host our own track events for a profit. what will be the hard line for you guys to mod on is the people that dont "say" they are part of so and so company but post for them, its something we already see in the vendor forum and ive heard of some vendors asking other members to come to there defence in certain issues. thats why i said it will be hard to mod this.

[hksevo8]

Not to make light of this situation, but this made me laugh so hard.



I'm butthurt now man, I'll get right on it!

[Chris in SD]

I think Rob spelled it out very clearly in his first post. If profit is to be made, register as a vendor. If the event/item/etc. is free, there is no need. Pretty simp-o...