Is the United States Being Invaded?

[ultraflip]

an extension from the high school walk out:


Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo said in a 1997 speech in Chicago to the "National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, that he "proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this."


The U.S. has tripled its border patrol budget over the past five years, but the flow of immigrants has barely changed. At the same time, Mexican President Vicente Fox has pressed for an eventual erasure of the southern border and encouraged Mexicans who seek work in the U.S.

At a speech one year ago at a border post in Nogales, just south of the Arizona border, Fox said: "We want to salute these heroes, these kids leaving their homes, their communities, leaving with tears in their eyes, saying goodbye to their families, to set out on a difficult, sometimes painful search for a job, an opportunity they can't find at home, their community or their own country."


“In the last few months we have managed to achieve an improvement in the situation of many Mexicans in that country, regardless of their migratory status, through schemes that have permitted them access to health and education systems, identity documents, as well as the full respect for their labor and human rights.”
“All this has meant, in the past year, an extraordinary conceptual advance on the subject of immigration and in the importance of moving gradually toward the regularization of the migratory situation of our fellow Mexicans in the United States, a number that is estimated at between 3 and 4 million Mexicans."

“Eventually, our long-range objective is to establish with the United States, but also with Canada, our other regional partner, an ensemble of connections and institutions similar to those created by the European Union, with the goal of attending to future themes as important as the future prosperity of North America, and the freedom of movement of capital, goods, services and persons."


“The new framework we wish to construct is inspired in the example of the European Union...”

“....we have to confront ..... what I dare to call the Anglo-Saxon prejudice against the establishment of supra-national organizations.”

“Nevertheless, I believe that with realism we can overcome the obstacles and construct a more prosperous and secure community for our peoples


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Border violence is escalating
Efforts to curb drug trafficking are not working
By JAY ROOT
Knight Ridder Newspapers

NUEVO LAREDO, Mexico — Eight months after Mexican authorities unleashed a show of force to quell drug violence along the U.S. border, the effort is in disarray and the general in charge has vanished.

Drug killings are on the rise, local news outlets have been cowed into silence, and evidence is mounting that members of two warring drug-trafficking cartels have infiltrated the program’s elite anti-drug forces.

U.S. officials are concerned that the violence is crossing the border: Assaults on U.S. Border Patrol agents are up 108 percent this year, according to recent congressional testimony.

Mexican officials, recognizing that the Secure Mexico program had failed, announced a new program last week, dubbed Northern Border. Under the program, 600 to 800 more federal police agents were dispatched to this besieged border city.

But few expect that to make much difference, and drug traffickers weren’t intimidated: On Thursday, they gunned down four federal police intelligence agents in broad daylight outside a school there. At least 30 shots were fired into the agents’ bodies.

Adding to the disarray is the absence of Gen. Alvaro Moreno Moreno, who’d been in charge of Secure Mexico. Nuevo Laredo city officials and a Mexican diplomat on the U.S. side of the border said they’d had no contact with the general in weeks.

“I couldn’t tell you where he is,” said Eloy Caloca, a spokesman in Mexico City for the federal Ministry of Public Security, the agency to which Moreno reports. Asked who’s in charge in Nuevo Laredo now, Caloca said: “I don’t have his name right now.”.....
To reach Jay Root, send e-mail to [email protected].



Valley students ditch class to protest
By Josh Kleinbaum, Staff Writer

High school students ditched class and took to the streets today in the second day of protests over proposed federal legislation that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally.

Students from a half-dozen high schools and middle schools in the San Fernando Valley marched through the streets - some with umbrellas to protect them from a persistent drizzle - waving flags, chanting "Mexico, Mexico!" and urging other students to leave campus and join them.

"We want everyone to know that you can't mess with us, you can't stop us,"


Originally Posted by The Constitution of the United States
Article. I.
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
......To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
......To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

Article. IV.
Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;

http://www.wtfhost.com//files/366/smilies/Flag.gif

[j_nizzle]

things have been like this for many decades...there have always been people coming here illegally. my parents and many other family members included. here's the bottomline though. macky and sam mentioned this in the other thread so i'll reitterate: if they dont bother going through the process of becoming citizens and freeloading off what we as taxpayers provide for our citizens, i say to hell with them. so in short, we're always being invaded. nowadays it's too many people so we decide to make laws and they throw fits.

[ultraflip]

well check this... the issue that takes us close to home is the whole mexico vs CA n what not... yet Mexico suxorz ballz when it comes to immigration more so than the U.S. or any other place (except france.... we don't like france)

It's not surprising that Mexico's President Vicente Fox would lash out at the United States for the recent House bill that proposes making illegal immigration a felony and adding a 700-mile wall along the border.

However, it does seem disingenuous for Mexico's top leader to throw stones at Washington when his country's treatment of illegal immigrants – mostly Central Americans – was recently condemned by an agency of his own government.

When dealing with illegal immigrants, Mexico employs some of the same methods it has criticized the United States for, such as prison sentences for detainees, according to the findings of Mexico's Human Rights Commission.

"One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues is the contradiction in demanding that the North (the United States) respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South" along Mexico's border with Guatemala, said commission president Jose Luis Soberanes.

According to Mexican law, anyone caught entering the country illegally can be punished with up to two years in prison and fined thousands of dollars. Although prison sentences are rarely imposed, illegal immigrants in Mexico have not only the coyotes, who smuggle them into the country, to worry about, but corrupt authorities as well. Although the National Immigration Institute is the only agency authorized to detain foreigners, Mexico often uses the police and military to enforce immigration laws.

The commission's report also found that illegal immigrants are crammed into overcrowded detention centers and holding facilities that lack working bathrooms, sleeping mats and blankets, food and medical care. Often, women and children are locked up with men, and detainees with infectious diseases are not housed separately.

If Mr. Fox were more open about Mexico's own shortcomings when it comes to immigration, instead of just criticizing the United States for coming up short, maybe leaders from both countries could have honest conversations that lead to immigration plans that actually work.

And, certainly, Mr. Fox's pleas would better resonate if his country actually practiced what he preached.

[SpdyEvo02]

This is not a race issue. FUCK all illegals not matter what color,race or religion. I'm sick of these leeches draining our system, and im sick of paying weekly for their educactions , medical, and meals.

Lets build the wall, and close the borders, this melting pot is full!

[Bills Evo]

1. Bring all our troops and equipment home from Iraq.
* *2. Train them in border warfare.
* *3. Enforce the law.
* *4. Protect the citizens from invasion and harm.
* *5. Use whatever force is necessary to enforce the law
* *6. Repeat #5 as needed.

*Yes it looks like we are singling out the mexicans, but they comprise the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Mexicans are the only froup of illegal immigrants that flaunt their so called "right to be here". Hmmm, last time I checked breaking the law meant you go to jail ASSHOLE! Oh yeah, I didn't know that noncitizens had the same rights as LEGAL citizens. All I'm saying is - enforce the law already in force.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill

[UltraCracker]

http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/news/032706_protest/16.jpg

Thats funny as hell....

I bet he doesn't pay taxes either... :tickedoff:

[ultraflip]

It is my opinion that Vicente Fox and his Mexican government should take another look at Article 33 of the Mexican constitution. It says (in part) that it should have the exclusive right "to expel from the national territory immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient. FOREIGNERS MAY NOT IN ANY MANNER INVOLVE THEMSELVES IN THE POLITICAL AFFAIRS OF THE COUNTRY."

Isn't it logical that the United States has that same right?

And yet Mexico's own foreign minister, Jorge Castaneda, looked our U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in the eye and said: "The United States cannot secure its southern border without Mexico's blessing. It will not have Mexico's blessing until America agrees to the Mexican demands." And he added: "Unless and until both governments bite the bullet and reach understanding on all encompassing joint border security, with adequate funding and infrastructure, the violence and criminal activity at the border will remain unabated."

Obviously, they are serious. As this is being written, a million people will march through Los Angeles, Atlanta and other cities, demanding open borders and amnesty. These marchers, carrying Mexican flags, are protesting our own H.R. 4437 now before the U.S. Senate. This bill passed by Congress opposes guest worker amnesty and has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.

Americans, by a vast majority, oppose any plan that converts illegal aliens into legal temporary workers – any plan that rewards criminal lawbreakers with the right to legally live and work in the world's greatest nation and is unjust to aliens who are trying to immigrate and choose to respect and abide by our laws.

H.R. 4437 does not include a guest worker/amnesty program. It does include tough provisions to enforce the immigration law on corporations that hire illegals. It also would build 700 miles of double fencing along the Mexican border to help our overburdened Border Patrol to defend our homeland.


The Mexican government is so determined in opposition to 4437, it has footed the bill for full-page ads in three of our largest newspapers – the advertisement titled "A MESSAGE FROM MEXICO ABOUT MIGRATION" damning the resolution passed by our Congress to stop the illegal invasion. The ads did not come cheap – a full-page ad in the Washington Post costs as much as $100,000; the same ad, about $70,000 in the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times.

Mexico hired Allyn & Co., a Dallas-based public relations firm, to (as the firm puts it) "correct misconceptions about our southern neighbor." Allyn & Co. has long-standing ties to the Bush administration, having worked for the president during his campaign for Texas governor and national office.

A marketing professor says: "A foreign government buying ad space to promote an official policy is very, very unusual. I've never seen the likes of it, never before."

The stakes are high. Without significant reductions in the overall levels of immigration, our population will climb to more than 500 million by mid-century. Such a massive population growth would dramatically alter every aspect of life in the U.S. and yet we allow the invaders to march our streets, pollute the media and involve themselves in the political affairs of our country.


again.. it's just an opionion

[ultraflip]

The U.S. Senate has begun what is likely to be a long debate on immigration reform. The House of Representatives, responding to the anxieties of most Americans, recently passed a bill that would reduce illegal immigration by placing sanctions on employers who hire them and by improving border security. Of course, it is already against the law to hire illegal aliens and to enter the country illegally. So this simple but necessary measure essentially tells the U.S. government to enforce existing laws.

WHAT AMERICANS THINK

59 percent say they oppose allowing illegal immigrants to apply for legal, temporary-worker status, an NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll found.

62 percent say they oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens, a Quinnipiac University poll said.

Three-fourths say the United States is not doing enough along its borders to keep illegal immigrants out, a Time magazine poll found.
AP

In other words, the Senate thinks as follows: In order to have fewer immigrants, we must admit more of them. In order to halt illegal immigration, we must legalize it. And in order to enforce the law, we must reward those who have broken it.

So the federal government simply stopped enforcing the 1986 law some time around, say, 1987. By 2004, though, everyone knows that most of the 11 million illegals hold undercover jobs, exactly four employers nationwide were fined for employing them. Four.

In recent years, however, the evidence has been mounting -- and the voters have been noticing -- that many Americans, mainly unskilled workers on lower incomes and their families, were harmed by the competition of immigrants willing to work for much less. A study by Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies shows that between March 2000 and March 2005 only 9 percent of net new adult jobs went to native-born Americans.

As statistics show, there are no occupations in which immigrants form the majority of workers. So Americans actually do the jobs they allegedly won't do. Illegal immigrants, despite their impact on wages, are less than 5 percent of the U.S. work force and only between a quarter and third of workers even in those industries most dependent on them. And their disappearance -- as suggested in the pro-illegal immigration movie, "A Day Without Mexicans" -- would result not in the seizing up of the U.S. economy but in the automation of some jobs, the export of others, and an increase in wages for low-paid Americans, including legal and assimilated Hispanic immigrants already here.

Most Americans benefit only slightly, if at all, from the low-wage competition it brings. A survey of recent economic research on immigration by a Cambridge economist and an Oxford demographer concluded with dry British understatement: "The claim that U.S. prosperity has been driven by immigration, as opposed to driving it, appears to lack any academic support."

As these facts have become indisputable, the pro-immigration lobby has switched from simply defending uncontrolled and illegal immigration to arguing that it can only be controlled by being legalized.

That is, of course, the argument used to justify the 1986 amnesty. The tough enforcement measures promised in return for that amnesty resulted in the 2004 prosecutions of four employers. Since 1986 the United States has been admitting about one million immigrants each year through expanded legal channels. But these legal immigrants, far from being a substitute for illegal ones, were a magnet for them. They sheltered newcomers from home, found jobs for them, and provided a sea in which 11 million of them could swim undetected by the law. If past experience is any guide, adding more legal immigrants via a guest-worker program or higher quotas is likely to increase the number of illegals as well.

Such a policy must address not only the economic well-being of Americans but also their social and national solidarity. When half the flags waved at rallies to defeat the House bill over the weekend are Mexican, then immigration may be helping to create a divided bicultural society at best -- or a second nation at worst -- within the United States. And having arrived here by breaking our laws, that second nation evidently feels empowered to intimidate us into changing them to suit its power and interests.

yeah.. i know you guys are sick of me typing... blah blah blah... bite me all of you

[Terry S]

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/opinion/homepage/article_1075734.php

Thats a link to some letters written to the OCRegister by readers. Many of them share the same feeling as you flip.

Terry S

[Terry S]

Damn flip.. I just read all that. Good stuff and keep it comming.

Terry S

[ultraflip]

brain fart... plus break time.. i got more to say though... i'm not done... i got into it with my neighbor... wasn't pretty

[j_nizzle]

brain fart... plus break time.. i got more to say though... i'm not done... i got into it with my neighbor... wasn't pretty


im taking it they were mexican?

[Terry S]

Building a wall isn't going to help. Using soldiers isn't going to work. Enforcing exsisting laws isn't working.

The situation is difficult, but it does need a solution. The most obvious one I see is to FINALLY make a national ID program (been denied countless times) and to start requiring that for just about everything. Stop allowing non-citizens access to programs guaranteed FOR CITIZENS PER THE FUCKING LAWS THAT CREATED THEM unless they have a national ID.

I could go on but i'm getting yelled at to do work right now. Be back in a bit.

Terry S

[Macky]

my 2 cents.

flip brought up some very interesting points, and i agree 100% with them. i did not know of how Mexico treats illegal immigrants, yet illegal mexican immigrants here cry foul when they are being deported back or detained (with full quarters-food and proper shelter).

there should be no double standard, and who are they to criticize washington? last time i checked what washington does with immigration laws is strictly the US' business and not Mexico's.

to answer the thread's heading - YES the US is being invaded. It should be a shoot-on-sight if it were up to me. Those who surrender and allow to get deported back, thats fine. but those who run away and try to hide should be shot on sight. The US border patrol should implement the same security measures that the US Armed Forces employ on high-level sceurity Bases and Forts (like the ones they employ in Tonopah AFB in New Mexico (home of the F117A) and Whitemann AFB in MO (home of the B2 Strategic Bomber). That should keep illegal immigration attempts at a minimum.

[speedracer2169]

regardless of whatever happens it's just going to get worse. Maybe since the US likes to get involved in everyone elses business like in the middle east and el salvador they should meddle with mexico then too

[ultraflip]

the brazilian illegal i used to date had two fulltime jobs and sold metro pcs phones on the side. she was the hardest worker i have ever known. her extended family and her friends all seemed similar in their ethics. but most of her friends were guats or mexicans. even though they would have to work so much and get paid little by our standards, they can live well, and send a lot of money home to relatives. of course, most of them aspire to find a way to become a legal resident. but until you know them personally, you don't really see how hard many of them work and how much it means to them.

now... does anything in that story make her less illegal? NO... i'd still deport that sweet tasting punani


a lot of the people in this forum don't know what it is to struggle with having a better life style.. I mean like coming from a third world country and trying to have something decent... if your way of struggling means trying to break in to the 100k .. then you have the wrong idea of it..
A lot of immigrants are hard workers who are under pay but can care less since it puts food on the table.. I wonder if all immigrants are deported, who will take care of the fields and jobs that most americans won't or will refuse to do ? an for the little pay that they do it for... does this mean that the economic system will be affective by it.. by increasing prices on the smallest things ....


oh snaps... goku tryin to set me off...

Holy fuck... were you born that stupid or did you have to work at it?
When I was younger an older neighbor gave me a few dollars for mow his lawn. (he had allergies) I guess kids don't do things like that anymore.
When did being a hard worker make you an automatic citizen? When you get pulled over for speeding do you ask the cop to let you go because you're a hard worker?
If these immigrants are such hard workers why is it too much trouble to fill out some paperwork and do things legally?

who will take care of the fields goku? who? I find it funny that people are predicting economic doomsday if we deport all of the illegal fruit pickers and lawn mowers.

We had our economic headquarters destroyed by 2 airplanes, and we have spent nearly 300 billion dollars on a war that appears to be rather pointless and that *didnt put the collapse on us... but we think people won't man up and cut their own grass if they can't afford to pay someone to do it and the economy will tank

OMG YARDS WILL LOOK LIKE OVER GROWN FIELDS!!! I COULDNT EVEN FIND MY CAR THIS MORNING!

[KRS333]

my 2 cents.

flip brought up some very interesting points, and i agree 100% with them. i did not know of how Mexico treats illegal immigrants, yet illegal mexican immigrants here cry foul when they are being deported back or detained (with full quarters-food and proper shelter).

there should be no double standard, and who are they to criticize washington? last time i checked what washington does with immigration laws is strictly the US' business and not Mexico's.

to answer the thread's heading - YES the US is being invaded. It should be a shoot-on-sight if it were up to me. Those who surrender and allow to get deported back, thats fine. but those who run away and try to hide should be shot on sight. The US border patrol should implement the same security measures that the US Armed Forces employ on high-level sceurity Bases and Forts (like the ones they employ in Tonopah AFB in New Mexico (home of the F117A) and Whitemann AFB in MO (home of the B2 Strategic Bomber). That should keep illegal immigration attempts at a minimum.


*WERD! +1
I come from a Mexican & Central American background but with all the help we offer sometimes they still try to say America is against them. If so why risk your life to come here!

[Miss Evo8]

:-o ........Touchy subject here! If these policies are implemented... the reality of it is they probably won't be effective for at least 20 years...we all know the government works slow...so there will still be workers to cut grass and pick fruit... *:roll:

[Macky]

Like I said before in the other thread...

Just because one is a hard worker doesnt automatically mean they should be granted amnesty and their illegal status erased.

And the argument that there are a lot of lazy people here in the US, thats a sad and pointless argument as well.

The fact of the matter is, the people protesting do not see this simple issue:

The lazy people/bums here in the US are mainly citizens and/or legal residents. The (sadly) hardworking ones are usually here illegally, regardless if the kind of job they do does not appeal to most people.

And as far as the letter of the law is concerned, you could have created the cure for cancer, but if you are in the country illegally, you will have to abide by the law and be deported and reenter the country legally.

[speedracer2169]

:-o ........Touchy subject here! If these policies are implemented... the reality of it is they probably won't be effective for at least 20 years...we all know the government works slow...so there will still be workers to cut grass and pick fruit... *:roll:


But it's obvious where to start looking anyways. Not too mention the so called mintue men that are going to go out and make matters worse for them. I still can;t get over that one guy that is with the minute men saying that he pissed because Illegals are draining the welfare system and driving escalades. Hmm i thought you need papers to do that. And he was mexican too and said that his grandparents came here illegaly. WTF ???

[gen4k20a2]

ok well being that my parents came from 3rd world country and my dad coming from Sri Lanka ,which is one of the poorest countries esp at that time, then moving to england first with nothing i know the stories of hardship of doing it LEGALLY. Then from there we moved to good ole US of A. LEGALLY. We had nothing. We had less than these illegals cause we knew no one. We had 10 bucks a week for food. this iwas in the early 80's, now my parents own a BMW an 05 RL a big house in the OC and make a good amount of cash. doing it illegally sticks you in the ass. You can do illegal jobs and thats it. They shouldnt bitch about wanting to be illegal cause they didnt do it the way they were supposed to.

Steal and Evo...try to hold on to it for 5years then bitch that it shoudl be yours cause you had it for 5 years. Doesnt work taht way....they knew what they were getting into when they got here...they dont like it tought shit the border is 100 miles south start running.

[j_nizzle]

the brazilian illegal i used to date had two fulltime jobs and sold metro pcs phones on the side. she was the hardest worker i have ever known. her extended family and her friends all seemed similar in their ethics. but most of her friends were guats or mexicans. even though they would have to work so much and get paid little by our standards, they can live well, and send a lot of money home to relatives. of course, most of them aspire to find a way to become a legal resident. but until you know them personally, you don't really see how hard many of them work and how much it means to them.

now... does anything in that story make her less illegal? NO... i'd still deport that sweet tasting punani


a lot of the people in this forum don't know what it is to struggle with having a better life style.. I mean like coming from a third world country and trying to have something decent... if your way of struggling means trying to break in to the 100k .. then you have the wrong idea of it..
A lot of immigrants are hard workers who are under pay but can care less since it puts food on the table.. I wonder if all immigrants are deported, who will take care of the fields and jobs that most americans won't or will refuse to do ? an for the little pay that they do it for... does this mean that the economic system will be affective by it.. by increasing prices on the smallest things ....


oh snaps... goku tryin to set me off...

Holy fuck... were you born that stupid or did you have to work at it?
When I was younger an older neighbor gave me a few dollars for mow his lawn. (he had allergies) I guess kids don't do things like that anymore.
When did being a hard worker make you an automatic citizen? When you get pulled over for speeding do you ask the cop to let you go because you're a hard worker?
If these immigrants are such hard workers why is it too much trouble to fill out some paperwork and do things legally?

who will take care of the fields goku? who? I find it funny that people are predicting economic doomsday if we deport all of the illegal fruit pickers and lawn mowers.

We had our economic headquarters destroyed by 2 airplanes, and we have spent nearly 300 billion dollars on a war that appears to be rather pointless and that *didnt put the collapse on us... but we think people won't man up and cut their own grass if they can't afford to pay someone to do it and the economy will tank

OMG YARDS WILL LOOK LIKE OVER GROWN FIELDS!!! I COULDNT EVEN FIND MY CAR THIS MORNING!


flip FTW....if anyone has seen the movie "a day w/o a mexican", goku's mindset is exactly so. if no one is here to do it, we'll(believe it or not) do it. because it is our country. they're our lawns, our restrooms, our restaurants, etc. w/e you may believe about how a lack of illegal immigrants will be the downfall of our society because there will be so many jobs w/o workers, you are totally ignorant. minimum wage exists for a reason. there are plenty of people illegal immigrants aside, who could use the money and/or the jobs. they are citizens and are ready and willing to do what it takes.

[gen4k20a2]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.

[Terry S]

Oh and not to mention, there are alot of construction companies & industries out there that have been battling this crap for years now. Legal americans get underbid by illegals willing to do work for 1/2 or 1/3 the price. And thats not even union wages their underbiding against.

Terry S

[Terry S]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

[j_nizzle]

a lot of people have their opinions on who would fill the gap of the people who work in certain undesirable industries...think of this way, the lazy slackers will now have something productive to do. imagine how many high school kids will now have a fund for their weekly/daily habit. people will fill the ranks.

[gen4k20a2]

Cause getting legal status and jumping infront of those from the other 209 countries wont happen

[speedracer2169]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage

[speedracer2169]

a lot of people have their opinions on who would fill the gap of the people who work in certain undesirable industries...think of this way, the lazy slackers will now have something productive to do. imagine how many high school kids will now have a fund for their weekly/daily habit. people will fill the ranks.

In order for that to happen welfare needs to be reformed.

[ultraflip]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


:-o ........Touchy subject here! If these policies are implemented... the reality of it is they probably won't be effective for at least 20 years... *:roll:


your shits answered even before you asked it... it'll take time... rome wasn't built in a day... thank you for playing

[gen4k20a2]

And if they do you think they would kepp on doing that or do you think theyd go to college and finsih high school cause they can now get welfare...and grants and other forms of monetary compensation. its not like were letting the smartest more educated people in. its the lowest working class and as its is well know that is the class that will use the most money. (no medical insurance, no car insurance, and now that the kids dont need to work caus emom and dad get welfare they will go to classes now and have time to participate in extra ciricular activities more money)

[speedracer2169]

And what's with this ad for meeting hot singles? how long has that *been there

[ultraflip]

oh... and before anyone else bitches.. i'm sorry... i know i'm over simplifying... immigrant workers are more integrated to our economic society aside from banana suit wearing lawn mower people

[gen4k20a2]

illegals are....everyone is an immigrant. hell im an immigrant i was born in england and still not a US citizen

[gen4k20a2]

yes i have a green card and my parents had to struggle and wait to get it like everyone else in the world

[j_nizzle]

illegals are....everyone is an immigrant. hell im an immigrant i was born in england and still not a US citizen


lucky you, if you didnt add that second post i think a lot of guys would want to linch you!

[speedracer2169]

yes i have a green card and my parents had to struggle and wait to get it like everyone else in the world

Well being from england, europe and in some cases Asia (unless they are in a cargo container) it's not like there was much of a choice.

[gen4k20a2]

well thats why im passionate about it....we had to struggle to get our ass here. We came with less than most illegals. We had nothing....NOTHING 10 bucks a week for food is how we started. and my parents have lived the american dream...theyre successful. THATS HOW YOU IMMIGRATE HERE! not illegally...being ILLEGAL automatically gives up your governing rights. ya humane right no problem....but other than that take a seat.

[gen4k20a2]

yes i have a green card and my parents had to struggle and wait to get it like everyone else in the world

Well being from england, europe and in some cases Asia (unless they are in a cargo container) it's not like there was much of a choice.


trust me my heritage is half sri lankan and we know a few illegal sri lankans living here. thereis a choice

[Terry S]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage


No I shouldn't ask myself. What is the correct question is why can't the same person pick strawberries while applying for citizenship? Those workers in the fields seem to be surviving on less than a minimum wage already, so what would change other than their citizenship status?

Terry S

[gen4k20a2]

bottom line is that the govenrment is fucking up. They need to lock down the border. im down with giving the workers here work visas. but lock down the border so workers can get here without auth. We should control whats going on in our country.

[speedracer2169]

yes i have a green card and my parents had to struggle and wait to get it like everyone else in the world

Well being from england, europe and in some cases Asia (unless they are in a cargo container) it's not like there was much of a choice.


trust me my heritage is half sri lankan and we know a few illegal sri lankans living here. thereis a choice

We are all aware of that but it's not that eay for them to get here in the first place than mexico isn't it?

[gen4k20a2]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.




that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage


No I shouldn't ask myself. What's the correct question is why cant the same person pick strawberries while applying for citizenship? Those workers in the fields seem to be surviving on less than a minimum wage already, so what would change other than their citizenship status?

Terry S

read my post at the top thats what would happen

[gen4k20a2]

yes i have a green card and my parents had to struggle and wait to get it like everyone else in the world

Well being from england, europe and in some cases Asia (unless they are in a cargo container) it's not like there was much of a choice.


trust me my heritage is half sri lankan and we know a few illegal sri lankans living here. thereis a choice

We are all aware of that but it's not that eay for them to get here in the first place than mexico isn't it?


thats why we make it that hard...put the border on lock down



another reason would be i dont want osama walking in the back door.

[Macky]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage


noone here will survive on minimum wage.

thing is, if they cant find anyone to pick strawberries for 10 hours, they will find a way. either someone will come up with an automated way to pick strawberries, or the company that grows the strawberries will be forced to hire legally people from other countries. either way, they'll be forced to find a way.

the issue at hand is illegal immigration. the US economy wont collapse if all the illegal immigrants are deported

[speedracer2169]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


read my post at the top thats what would happen

that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage


.....What's the correct question is why cant the same person pick strawberries while applying for citizenship? Those workers in the fields seem to be surviving on less than a minimum wage already, so what would change other than their citizenship status?

Terry S


Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?

[speedracer2169]

+1 but the question is that with illegals being involved for so long if they suddenly disappeared who would take their place. being in the restaurant industry i doubt it would be easy to find someone to do what they do.


that is not true. Why couldn't the same guy but with legal status do the same thing? Is he not able to?

Terry S

You should ask yourself if you would do it? Would you wanna pick strawberries in the hot sun in Irvine for ten hours? And besides we all know you can't survive in california on minimum wage


noone here will survive on minimum wage.

.... or the company that grows the strawberries will be forced to hire legally people from other countries. either way, they'll be forced to find a way.


Hmm sounds like slavery to me. And how will they hire legal citizens. Shit they better pay three time the minimum wage for that shit plus medical

[gen4k20a2]

thats right....homeland security needs to sack up and lock that shit up! canada too :grin:


Well thats why a worker card should be issued to those that want to work here from out of the country so we know who goes in and out. With citizenship we will loose alot of the work force....being paid minimum will put alot of the workers on welfare. We fucked up 50 years ago not coontrolling it and were gunna pay the price over the next 20-30 years

[gen4k20a2]

indeed its sounds like slavery but heres the differences.

Their own country/governemt caused it. They dont have shit set up like us. Their country is filled with crime so real positive work cant get done.
2nd....they came here on their own damn free will knowing what theyll do and what theyll get paid.

[speedracer2169]

thats right....homeland security needs to sack up and lock that shit up! canada too :grin:


Well thats why a worker card should be issued to those that want to work here from out of the country so we know who goes in and out. With citizenship we will loose alot of the work force....being paid minimum will put alot of the workers on welfare. We fucked up 50 years ago not coontrolling it and were gunna pay the price over the next 20-30 years




Worker card? Like a green card right? Don't you have one? You don't need a green card to pick strawberries do you? It's not even a full time job or even part time. More like driving down to home depot and just picking up some guys to pick strawberries

[gen4k20a2]

no you dont get it. A green card allows me to be a resident and take advantage of everything the government has to offer but i cant vote or get drafted...thats basically it. A worker card would allow them to work here for some set time period. After that they have to go home and apply for it again.*

[Macky]

Hmm sounds like slavery to me. And how will they hire legal citizens. Shit they better pay three time the minimum wage for that shit plus medical


that being classified as slavery is just your speculation. if they are legally working here for a company that has them working in the fields, then whats wrong with that?

you are saying its slavery because they are being hired from abroad to work in a strawberry field. you are assuming they are being forced to work in a strawberry field.

but if the company advertises that they have an opening to work in a strawberry field in the US and they accept under no duress, then that is perfectly legal.

[speedracer2169]

indeed its sounds like slavery but heres the differences.

Their own country/governemt caused it. They dont have shit set up like us. Their country is filled with crime so real positive work cant get done.
2nd....they came here on their own damn free will knowing what theyll do and what theyll get paid.

You sir have not been raised in Watts. Ask any person who live in south l.a. Let's see how much corruption have we seen in the government in the last year. Gangs?? we have the most violent gangs in the world. I don't see our government going out and extinguishing gangs. In order to solve a problem you need to go to the source. If we want to stop this whole immigration thing and whatever then the U.S. needs to get involved in reforming Latin America. Hell if we can do Iraq, go to Vietnam and meddle with every other country for this country's own personal gain than why not help Latin America

[Macky]

Worker card? Like a green card right? Don't you have one? You don't need a green card to pick strawberries do you? It's not even a full time job or even part time. More like driving down to home depot and just picking up some guys to pick strawberries


yes you dont need a green card to work in a strawberry field, but you need a green card to be here legally to work in a strawberry field. part time or full time doesnt matter. if you reside/plan to reside/ in the US, regardless of what your job is, you need a green card to stay here legally.

big difference.

[speedracer2169]

no you dont get it. A green card allows me to be a resident and take advantage of everything the government has to offer but i cant vote or get drafted...thats basically it. A worker card would allow them to work here for some set time period. After that they have to go home and apply for it again. *

It's the same thing. You have to renew your green card anyways right? If you keep screwing up with the law you can be denied residence right? You get a social which you need to pay taxes right?

[Terry S]

indeed its sounds like slavery but heres the differences.

Their own country/governemt caused it. They dont have shit set up like us. Their country is filled with crime so real positive work cant get done.
2nd....they came here on their own damn free will knowing what theyll do and what theyll get paid.

You sir have not been raised in Watts. Ask any person who live in south l.a. Let's see how much corruption have we seen in the government in the last year. Gangs?? we have the most violent gangs in the world. I don't see our government going out and extinguishing gangs. In order to solve a problem you need to go to the source. If we want to stop this whole immigration thing and whatever then the U.S. needs to get involved in reforming Latin America. Hell if we can do Iraq, go to Vietnam and meddle with every other country for this country's own personal gain than why not help Latin America


oK, YOUR STRAYING FROM THE TOPIC AGAIN.. god damn caps lock.

Dont even say we have the "most violent gangs in the world". The first word in my head that poped up when you said that was Nigeria. Dont even try to argue the gang angle.

Terry S

[Terry S]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

[speedracer2169]

indeed its sounds like slavery but heres the differences.

Their own country/governemt caused it. They dont have shit set up like us. Their country is filled with crime so real positive work cant get done.
2nd....they came here on their own damn free will knowing what theyll do and what theyll get paid.

............In order to solve a problem you need to go to the source. If we want to stop this whole immigration thing and whatever then the U.S. needs to get involved in reforming Latin America. Hell if we can do Iraq, go to Vietnam and meddle with every other country for this country's own personal gain than why not help Latin America

[speedracer2169]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?

[gen4k20a2]

are you kidding? have you not been out of this country ? In other countrys they have more than "gangs". They have mafias and most every country has their form of it. Not only will they do drive, bys they kill your mom....cut your hands off. Cut other things off. Slit your stomach so you guts hang out and let you bleed to death, thats a slow death if you didnt know. The gangs here are shit compared to the others in the world. How bout suicide bombers? wouldnt that be considered a "gang". Random acts of violence from our point of view just liek a gang. a group of people that relate to each other and to a cause, just like a gang. An oppressed people just like a gang but they go and blow up a city block with 50lbs of TNT straped to their body. but your right the gangs in LA with a glock in his back pocket is much more violent. Trust me the corruption in the government here is nothing. You think the president of mexico has power? Look at the mafia leaders in that country. Look it up on the net and see what theyve done. Way more than that mexican "president".

And hell yes we go to war for our countries gain why the fuck wouldnt we. it just happens that we go to war to help others too. Bosnia....what was our gain there. We sent troops there what was our gain? Wasnt oil or money. I wont even get started with Iraq just watch oreilly factor and if you have questions i will defer you to email him on that cause hes got it explained.

Hell yes we need to help mexico and south america. But let me tell you this since you seem not too globablly inclined. When my dad comes from Sri lanka, there has been a civil war going on there for about 35 years. Where do you think suicide bombing got its start? not in the middle east. that country is tearing itself apart but whens the last time you heard about it on the news. Why dont we help those countries....i guess well wait for another tsunami.

[Terry S]

............In order to solve a problem you need to go to the source. If we want to stop this whole immigration thing and whatever then the U.S. needs to get involved in reforming Latin America.

You cant reform what you have no control over. Plus, we've been trying to help out with the NAFTA shit, but it keeps getting shot down by, oh yea, THE COUNTRIES IT WOULD BE HELPING.



They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?


False pride is not the same. I know why they dont want to leave, but I dont understand why they dont want to follow some very simple, and very basic rules. Maybe they just aren't informed that they have to? I dont know.

Also, it's quite obvious that the ones protesting and running around all "pro-(insert latin country here)" aren't the illegals. The illegals are too busy working to try to blend in with the "normal citizens" and not draw attention to themselves.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.

The 2 big issues that I see with all this from my point of view has always been that we take better care of illegal immigrants than we do our own people. Thats great if you are an immigrant but not so much if you are the tax payers. Even bigger is the border towns are huge cesspools of corruption, drug trafficking, and a lot of people living there are afraid of just walking around the towns... Also there is a lot of crime on the US side of the border towns.

When I set up a satellite office in Sierra Vista, Arizona, immigration was a huge issue there. The farmers and people who lived there were tired of the immigrants and drug dealers ruining their farms, crops, and also thefts and all kinds of other issues.

As I see it there are 2 types of immigrants. The first are the ones that worked their butts off to get here, make a living, get a green card, work very hard at their jobs and make something of themselves. I am proud to call a number of these friends, and at times I am humbled by their hard work and dedication.

The 2nd type are the ones that live off the system here, do nothing positive, deal drugs, steal from people, steal legitimate green card carrying people's identities, and basically are a burden and a liability.

I watched as one of my buddies with a green card had a horrible process with the IRS because some jackass stole his identity, worked with his social security number and proceeded to make my buddy liable for thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes. He still worked through the system and paid for those taxes and was eventually reimbursed, and had everything reset for him. I was impressed by this guys perseverance.

So thats why I say that... We get some prime real estate, curb the migration issue, make life better for all the mexicans, make life a lot better for Texas, AZ, New Mexico and Texas... Now do I think anyone would do it....Nah

[gen4k20a2]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?


are you kidding i work with illeagals. they dont give a shit about america. They are here to work thats it possibly to try to better their lives.

Terry....if you were picking strawberrys and were a citizen and the goverment offered you a check every month and it was compounded by how many children you had....would you still work? And that check was more than you made

[x[corwyn]]

indeed its sounds like slavery but heres the differences.

Their own country/governemt caused it. They dont have shit set up like us. Their country is filled with crime so real positive work cant get done.
2nd....they came here on their own damn free will knowing what theyll do and what theyll get paid.

You sir have not been raised in Watts. Ask any person who live in south l.a. Let's see how much corruption have we seen in the government in the last year. Gangs?? we have the most violent gangs in the world. I don't see our government going out and extinguishing gangs. In order to solve a problem you need to go to the source. If we want to stop this whole immigration thing and whatever then the U.S. needs to get involved in reforming Latin America. Hell if we can do Iraq, go to Vietnam and meddle with every other country for this country's own personal gain than why not help Latin America


http://www.elpasotimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060129/NEWS/601290320/1001

[Terry S]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.


They aren't going to just sell us Baja. And even if they would, do you think congress would foot the bill? Um no. It's a great idea, but conquering land isn't a viable option anymore. The only way to take control of areas is to get them to surrender it willfully or through revolt. However, revolt is never a good option because the outcome is to unpredictable.

Terry S

[ultraflip]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.

The 2 big issues that I see with all this from my point of view has always been that we take better care of illegal immigrants than we do our own people. Thats great if you are an immigrant but not so much if you are the tax payers. Even bigger is the border towns are huge cesspools of corruption, drug trafficking, and a lot of people living there are afraid of just walking around the towns... Also there is a lot of crime on the US side of the border towns.

When I set up a satellite office in Sierra Vista, Arizona, immigration was a huge issue there. The farmers and people who lived there were tired of the immigrants and drug dealers ruining their farms, crops, and also thefts and all kinds of other issues.

As I see it there are 2 types of immigrants. The first are the ones that worked their butts off to get here, make a living, get a green card, work very hard at their jobs and make something of themselves. I am proud to call a number of these friends, and at times I am humbled by their hard work and dedication.

The 2nd type are the ones that live off the system here, do nothing positive, deal drugs, steal from people, steal legitimate green card carrying people's identities, and basically are a burden and a liability.

I watched as one of my buddies with a green card had a horrible process with the IRS because some jackass stole his identity, worked with his social security number and proceeded to make my buddy liable for thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes. He still worked through the system and paid for those taxes and was eventually reimbursed, and had everything reset for him. I was impressed by this guys perseverance.

So thats why I say that... We get some prime real estate, curb the migration issue, make life better for all the mexicans, make life a lot better for Texas, AZ, New Mexico and Texas... Now do I think anyone would do it....Nah

Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the Magical Man from Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane!

















Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.

[/homer]

[Terry S]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?


are you kidding i work with illeagals. they dont give a shit about america. They are here to work thats it possibly to try to better their lives.

Terry....if you were picking strawberrys and were a citizen and the goverment offered you a check every month and it was compounded by how many children you had....would you still work? And that check was more than you made


It's not a matter of if I would work or not, its a matter of how much the price of strawberries would go up until myself or someone else was offered enough to go back to the fields instead of collecting welfare.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.


They aren't going to just sell us Baja. And even if they would, do you think congress would foot the bill? Um no. It's a great idea, but conquering land isn't a viable option anymore. The only way to take control of areas is to get them to surrender it willfully or through revolt. However, revolt is never a good option because the outcome is to unpredictable.

Terry S


Shit just tell Vicente Fox he can be the next Donald Trump of Mexico state and he would be all over that shit. That government is all about the dollars...

[gen4k20a2]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?


are you kidding i work with illeagals. they dont give a shit about america. They are here to work thats it possibly to try to better their lives.

Terry....if you were picking strawberrys and were a citizen and the goverment offered you a check every month and it was compounded by how many children you had....would you still work? And that check was more than you made


It's not a matter of if I would work or not, its a matter of how much the price of strawberries would go up until myself or someone else was offered enough to go back to the fields instead of collecting welfare.

Terry S


you willing to pay 10 a lb ???? cause that would be a ballpark figure. its a majorly labor intensive job. if so your plan will work but i doubt that those in the farming industry will agree that this is a good idea

[Terry S]

]
Shit just tell Vicente Fox he can be the next Donald Trump of Mexico state and he would be all over that shit. That government is all about the dollars...


True. They have the american spirit of capitolism, but they just dont have the practices down as well as us.

But again, the cost to us for buying mexico would be astronomical. However if we had an effectual global alliance that controlled the finances of all its members... ;)

Terry S

[speedracer2169]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.


They aren't going to just sell us Baja. And even if they would, do you think congress would foot the bill? Um no. It's a great idea, but conquering land isn't a viable option anymore. The only way to take control of areas is to get them to surrender it willfully or through revolt. However, revolt is never a good option because the outcome is to unpredictable.

Terry S

Didn't the Us buy the western area from mexico?

[x[corwyn]]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.

The 2 big issues that I see with all this from my point of view has always been that we take better care of illegal immigrants than we do our own people. Thats great if you are an immigrant but not so much if you are the tax payers. Even bigger is the border towns are huge cesspools of corruption, drug trafficking, and a lot of people living there are afraid of just walking around the towns... Also there is a lot of crime on the US side of the border towns.

When I set up a satellite office in Sierra Vista, Arizona, immigration was a huge issue there. The farmers and people who lived there were tired of the immigrants and drug dealers ruining their farms, crops, and also thefts and all kinds of other issues.

As I see it there are 2 types of immigrants. The first are the ones that worked their butts off to get here, make a living, get a green card, work very hard at their jobs and make something of themselves. I am proud to call a number of these friends, and at times I am humbled by their hard work and dedication.

The 2nd type are the ones that live off the system here, do nothing positive, deal drugs, steal from people, steal legitimate green card carrying people's identities, and basically are a burden and a liability.

I watched as one of my buddies with a green card had a horrible process with the IRS because some jackass stole his identity, worked with his social security number and proceeded to make my buddy liable for thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes. He still worked through the system and paid for those taxes and was eventually reimbursed, and had everything reset for him. I was impressed by this guys perseverance.

So thats why I say that... We get some prime real estate, curb the migration issue, make life better for all the mexicans, make life a lot better for Texas, AZ, New Mexico and Texas... Now do I think anyone would do it....Nah

Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the Magical Man from Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane!

















Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.

[/homer]


Dude... Make people happy...Get me some good real estate in Baja Mexico.... In fact we could probably do a group buy and make our own damned track ;)

[gen4k20a2]

hey im down

[speedracer2169]

Isn't that what the new proposed law is saying? And once they reach citizenship then what? They are going to say fuck it and serve your burgers at Mickey D's. Who will work the fields then?


The laws of supply and demand is whats going to keep them in the field. Things wont change a damn bit except the workers in the field will be legal citizens and HOPEFULLY have some pride in the country that is allowing them so many options instead of the one that didn't want them.

Terry S

They already have pride. Why do you think they do not want to leave?


are you kidding i work with illeagals. they dont give a shit about america. They are here to work thats it possibly to try to better their lives.

Terry....if you were picking strawberrys and were a citizen and the goverment offered you a check every month and it was compounded by how many children you had....would you still work? And that check was more than you made


It's not a matter of if I would work or not, its a matter of how much the price of strawberries would go up until myself or someone else was offered enough to go back to the fields instead of collecting welfare.

Terry S


you willing to pay 10 a lb ???? cause that would be a ballpark figure. its a majorly labor intensive job. if so your plan will work but i doubt that those in the farming industry will agree that this is a good idea

Well it's just like macky said supply and demand. If you have demand but can't supply costs go up. Why not enough people to do the job. And then the legals who now have to get minimum wage and overtime who work the fields will force farmers to increase costs to cover what they are paying the employees. So how does that affect the economy when you go out and buy strawberries? Or when you have your lawn mowed?

[Terry S]

you willing to pay 10 a lb ???? cause that would be a ballpark figure. its a majorly labor intensive job. if so your plan will work but i doubt that those in the farming industry will agree that this is a good idea


Oh i know the price would skyrocket, and trust me, as a nurseryman I know how difficult it is to pick strawberries. But trust me, necessity is the mother of all inventions. Someone can, will, (and even has) come up with solutions.

Dont forget that Southern California is the worlds largest strawberry producing area BUT with the real estate crunch here, the fields are disappearing quick. The prices going up is just a matter of time anyways.

Oh and just a little fact for the debate that I just remembered. Foreign countries (chile, peru, etc) provide us with a good % of our produce. And that number is going up fast. All those summer fruits you eat in the winter are thanks to the same countries exporting their workers because they dont want them.

Terry S

[Terry S]

Didn't the Us buy the western area from mexico?


A long time ago, yes. But you think Mexico is going to just say "Yea I'll sell you Baja for a million bucks"? No, they know how much the land is worth and we'd pay out the ass. They'd charge enough to make the iraqi war bill look like a lunch trip to McDonalds.

Terry S

[Terry S]

I'd rather buy land in Nevada. Just as cheap, but no Federales. O0 But I haven't looked into it or anything. ;)

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

]
Personally what I thin kwe should do is just bring Mexico over as another state.... Here me out on this one... Have any of you been in Baja mexico? Granted the seweage systems need work and the water isn't a good idea to drink, but it is gorgeous land, not crowded, and the drive on the toll road is pretty damned *fun. We would get all that wonderful land, solve our border issue, remove the issue of drug trafficking through Mexico, and also no longer have to subsidise all these immigrants that can over just for the free health care. They will now be placed on the same playing field as all of us paying taxes.


They aren't going to just sell us Baja. And even if they would, do you think congress would foot the bill? Um no. It's a great idea, but conquering land isn't a viable option anymore. The only way to take control of areas is to get them to surrender it willfully or through revolt. However, revolt is never a good option because the outcome is to unpredictable.

Terry S

Didn't the Us buy the western area from mexico?


We actually had Texas in the Louisiana Purchase, but traded it for Florida to Spain. When Mexico gained independance we had US citizens that then declared Texas Independance from mexico. Thats where the Alamo and the eventual war with Mexico happened. After that war we also bought New Mexico and California for $30 million with the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. http://www.azteca.net/aztec/guadhida.html .


http://www.azteca.net/aztec/guadhida.html

[gen4k20a2]

here we go....oreillys plan seems good

One, immediately move the National Guard to the border to back up the border patrol. If this is done, there's no need for a $1 billion wall. Illegal crossings would decline drastically.

Two, detain anyone caught trying to cross the border illegally and deport them ASAP. No more catch and release.

Three, inform businesses that hiring illegal workers will lead to expensive fines first time, prison time for employers second time.

Four, allow those illegals already in the USA to register as foreign residents without fear of reprisal. An illegal would have 60 days to do that. Failure to register would be a felony with mandatory prison time.

Five, once the foreign resident is registered, he or she would be issued temporary working papers and would have to pay a $3,000 fine for breaking the immigration law. The money would be deducted from paychecks over a three-year period.

Six, after three years, that foreign resident could apply for citizenship, but such a privilege would not be guaranteed. The applicants would take their place in line behind those who have obeyed the immigration rules.

Seven, a legal guest worker program would be set up to meet the needs of businesses. Foreign countries could send a list of applicants and a pool would be formed.

And finally, any immigrant evading taxes in the USA would be immediately deported. So there you have it. Comprehensive plan to stop the madness, but Congress not going to do it.

[speedracer2169]

It's down to this we all are aware of a problem and we are making valid point but there are absolutly no reasonable solutions. Lock down the border? Yeah like that's gonna happen. You need to have at least two men patrolling for every mile to make that work. Worker card? It's the same thing as a green card?
Can anyone here come up with a solution? If someone comes up with a good solution I will happily take it present it and petition it to the entire Latino community accross the US.

[gen4k20a2]

its not...read my prior post. i dont think you know what a green card is nor what it offers.

[x[corwyn]]

http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist6/muzzey.html

Just readin through this it looks like we already conquered Mexico once... I had no idea we actually invaded all the way to Mexico City.

[Eckolaker]

my 2cp


Anyone who left their country to come here(legally or illegally) left becuase their country sucks...Regardless of what you think about our goverment, our people, our politicians, our military, etc; Our country sucks marginally less then yours or you wouldnt be here. With that being said, these people all need to show some fucking respect.

Im sorry but I dont hold much sympathy for people.

Fact: Life is hard, and for the most part it sucks.
Fact: Regardless of your social status in this country, you have the ability and opportunities to make things better for yourself.
Fact: No one HAS TO enter this country illegally.

Im just tired of people who want to blame everyone else under the son for their problems instead of looking to themselves for the root of the issue.

Now that we finally decide to crack down on illegal immigration(I.E. The US can no longer support the needs of its own people and the rest of the world), they all come out of the woodwork and demand they be given rights and special treatment for breaking the law. Their claim is that "You need us".

Bullshit, and fuck you to those that try to hold this country hostage after your dumbass broke the law. If you came here illegally you have no right to scream wtf when we say you broke the law and its time to pay the piper.

Why is it that illegal immigrants do the less desirable jobs? Hrmmm, maybe because the good jobs require a high school education at minimum, maybe because those are the job titles we overlook when we goto apply immigrations laws.

For YEARS, we have given "benefit of the doubt" treatment to illegal aliens...Their sons and daughters born here, are automatically citizens. We looked the other way as you took the money this economy earned you and removed it to your country.

I agree we let the problem get out of hand. However, that doesnt excuse people for breaking the law.

I know if I broke the law and got caught, I would have to pay, so why shouldnt everyone else? I mean we all want things to be fair right? Thats what all these immigrant workers are bitching about isnt it?

[gen4k20a2]

+1 thats how i feel. do it legally or stop bitching

[Macky]

Why is it that illegal immigrants do the less desirable jobs? Hrmmm, maybe because the good jobs require a high school education at minimum, maybe because those are the job titles we overlook when we goto apply immigrations laws.




precisely.

decent paying jobs require a background check, and if you are here illegally, they will find out, call the INS, and jail you.

thats why they mostly stick tojobs that dont do a background check or do proper employment procedures (i.e. strawberry picking, hired help or lawn mowers).

i personally didnt see any of these types of workers come out and protest simply because i think they are afraid of getting picked up and sent back. the teenagers who protested are protesting in lieu of their illegal parents/relatives or friends.

[speedracer2169]

Why is it that illegal immigrants do the less desirable jobs? Hrmmm, maybe because the good jobs require a high school education at minimum, maybe because those are the job titles we overlook when we goto apply immigrations laws.




precisely.

decent paying jobs require a background check, and if you are here illegally, they will find out, call the INS, and jail you.

thats why they mostly stick tojobs that dont do a background check or do proper employment procedures (i.e. strawberry picking, hired help or lawn mowers).

i personally didnt see any of these types of workers come out and protest simply because i think they are afraid of getting picked up and sent back. the teenagers who protested are protesting in lieu of their illegal parents/relatives or friends.

forgot to mention that it is cheap labor for employers

[gen4k20a2]

well scrubbing toilets isnt gunna get you 50 bucks an hour

[speedracer2169]

well scrubbing toilets isnt gunna get you 50 bucks an hour

yeah but incresing the labor costs means someone will have to pay for it at the end and that is us

[4evoblue]

i have an aunt thats been trying to get here in the us since i was 12. i am now 24, thou offered to be here illegally she declines them everytime an would like to do it legally... for the opportunity for being here legally is different then someone illegal... no matter what you do there is a choice...

and for the orielly option it would be nice but it ould be the same thing we ask for that now for tem to register but do they? NO!

about tha damn kids walking out.. that to me is just stupid... what were they trying to prove?.... if they dont go to school that detention numbers and lunchrooms profit would go down dramatically?... stupid...

solution?... thou a lot makes good points it all depends on what route would be done... what is being done now is a STEP thats all it is... what they do next after that might be a diffrent story...

[Macky]

forgot to mention that it is cheap labor for employers


yes it is cheap labor, but that doesnt make it right. thats why the law is penalizing employers who employ illegal immigrants.

either they find a way to hire people that are willing to work for cheap, legalize and file immigration papers for illegal immigrants to be able to work here legally or do a combination of both.

Thing is, for the most part, most jobs that hire for cheap dont care where you are from and dont care if you are here illegally. that by itself is against the law, because if you are working for a company, you should have complete working papers and be able to pay taxes. if not, that business/company in itself is illegal and should be shut down.

they may operate under a good intention (hard workers, willing to work jobs most people dont want to do), but that does not excuse nor change the fact that they are here illegally.

[Macky]

yeah but incresing the labor costs means someone will have to pay for it at the end and that is us


that aspect is governed by other laws (mainly those that protect the prices of goods and commodities), none of which are related to laws pertaining to immigration reform.

[gen4k20a2]

the difference between the oreilly solution and what we have now is being LEGAL. if you offer them permanent residency they wont be illgeal anymore. Thats what they want. Im sure they dont want to have the threat of being deported on their shoulder everyday. Im sure they want benefits of being legal.

[Terry S]

yeah but incresing the labor costs means someone will have to pay for it at the end and that is us


that aspect is governed by other laws (mainly those that protect the prices of goods and commodities), none of which are related to laws pertaining to immigration reform.


Exactly. Plus, the best answer to that question is: So?

Terry S

[ultraflip]

why worried about the beaner laborers... there's more money to worry about spent on the aliens elsewhere...

Until the day I die, I will insist that 'illegal' is 'illegal'."

Illegal Aliens cost taxpayers $69 Billion annually (just in social services) in federal programs in 2002. Studies estimate that amnesty would increase that three fold.

Perhaps as high as 80% of the violent crime in Phoenix area involves illegal aliens (according to Phoenix Chief Hurt and Mesa police violent crimes response team)

Over 4000 homicide warrants issued by the border states to suspects who are believed to have fled south of the border into Mexico.

$311 Billion in uncollected taxes (Barron's study).

$200 Billion annually in-lost American wages. Native-born American men lost an average of

$1700 in wages in 2000 due to US immigration policy (Harvard University).

Maricopa County Hospital loses over $2 million weekly on uncompensated care (largely do to illegal aliens) (2003, 77 border hospitals filed for bankruptcy).

1/3 of our federal prisons are illegal aliens, over 5000 illegal aliens in our State Prison.

Arizona spends over $800 million to over $1 billion (K –12) annually to educate illegals.

Over half of AHCCCS births are from illegal mothers 1/3 of children in Arizona have immigrant parents.

TAX REFORM: ENACT A "TAXPAYERS BILL OF RIGHTS" TABOR: TABOR would require lawmakers to set priorities, reduce wasteful spending, and reform entitlement programs. TABOR would save taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars over the next decade and could be enforced by requiring a 2/3's supermajority to pass the budget or any spending bill that exceeds TABOR allowances. Such a bar is low enough to clear during an emergency and yet high enough to prevent abuse. Colorado enacted TABOR law in 1992. Since then, the state government's growth has been reduced to 3% and taxpayers have received $3.3 billion in tax rebates. By, 2002 the average Colorado household was paying $3,729 less in state taxes then if spending had continued at its Pre-TABOR rates.

LOCAL AND FEDERAL SPENDING: Require “Truth in Budgeting” a transparent system with not gimmicks, no borrowing, and one that does not spend more than it takes in, in revenue. Individuals and couples in America have to reduce their overall spending when less revenue comes in (due to job loss or pay reduction, etc.). Why shouldn't we be required to do the same thing? This is not a conservative or liberal principle; this is a reasonable expectation that the American people should have of its government. Most politicians are unwilling to say no to any program. We need elected officials who will say no to out-of-control spending and yes to spending restraint, even if a program is "popular."

[Chris in SD]

I don't understand how anyone can support these people who wave the flag of Mexico/DR/Honduras/El Sal/etc., piss on this country by not paying taxes, by causing more crime, by putting serious pressure on emergency and medical services and welfare, yet claim to "deserve" to be here....

Fuck me, but I don't think that is the way it's supposed to be... ungrateful fucks.

[Terry S]

Isn't that the act that Arizona sent to the public and it passed?

Terry S

[ultraflip]

Illegal Aliens cost taxpayers $68 Billion annually in federal programs in 2002. Studies estimate that amnesty would increase that three fold.

$311 Billion in uncollected taxes (Barron's study).
$200 Billion annually in lost American wages. Native-born American men lost an average of $1700 in wages in 2000 due to US immigration policy (Harvard University).

Maricopa County Hospital loses over $2 million weekly on uncompensated care (largely do to illegal aliens) (2003, 77 border hospitals filed for bankruptcy).

Feds owe $25 million in uncompensated SCAAP costs just in Maricopa County, (1/3 of our federal prisons are illegal aliens).

Arizona spends over $800 million (K –12) annually to educate illegals.

Over half of AHCCCS births are from illegal mothers 1/3 of children in Arizona have immigrant parents.

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion." Article IV Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

Today, the majority of these elected officials are in violation of their oath of office, with severe consequences to their law abiding U.S. citizen constituents’.

From State Representative Russell Pearce R-18, Mesa, Arizona, Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee and Co-Author of Proposition 200 (known as Protect Arizona NOW).

I am so grateful to Americans who stand up for the Rule of Law and the citizens of this great nation. The disrespect for America (United States) our laws, our taxpayers, our sovereignty, our Constitution should be alarming to every American. I am also amazed at the Governor and our Attorney General's (who took an Oath to uphold the Constitution and the Laws) attempt to ignore and in fact their attempt to thwart the people's will and the law and what Prop. 200 is about (preventing illegals from getting free stuff against the law) in its attempt to Re-establish the Rule of Law.

[ultraflip]

Isn't that the act that Arizona sent to the public and it passed?

Terry S


you got ti

[ultraflip]

Some facts for those interested:



Illegals cost CA $9 billion a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

Illegals cost TX $4.7 billion a year.

http://madtechspeaks.blogspot.com/2005/05/hidden-cost-of-illegal-immigration.html

Florida $4.3 billion a year.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200508 %5CCUL20050808a.html

MN $175 Million a year.

http://www.americas.org/item_23761

Illegals send $17 billion back to mexico, money to that is not being spent here making jobs, increasing our tax revenue, etc.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000911.html

Illegals cost AZ $1.3 billion a year

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/guests/print_199848.html

[Terry S]

Damn, flip goin for the win...

Terry S

[ultraflip]

are we still at it about economic hardship with the illegals?
how about costs of other wars too???? I'M GLAD YOU ASKED FLIP

III. Financial Cost

Conflict Cost in $ Billions Per Capita
Current 1990s (in $1990)
The Revolution (1775-1783) .10 1.2 $ 342.86
War of 1812 (1812-1815) .09 0.7 92.11
Mexican War (1846-1848) .07 1.1 52.13
Civil War (1861-1865): Union 3.20 27.3 1,041.98
: Confederate 2.00 17.1 2,111.11
: Combined 5.20 44.4 1,294.46
Spanish American War (1898) .40 6.3 84.45
World War I (1917-1918) 26.00 196.5 1,911.47
World War II (1941-1945) 288.00 2,091.3 15,655.17
Korea (1950-1953) 54.00 263.9 1,739.62
Vietnam (1964-1972) 111.00 346.7 1,692.04
Gulf War (1990-1991) 61.00 61.1 235.00


The table compares the cost of America's principal wars since 1775 on the basis of then current and 1990s dollars. Current dollars are the actual numbers spent at the time. Thus, a 1775-1783 dollar had the equivalent purchasing power of $10.75 in 1990s terms. Actually this conversion is only a very rough guide, but at least gives some idea of the relative costs of the ten wars on an adjusted basis. However, it is not possible to take into account drastic changes in social structure (most Americans were farmers in 1775, and didn't use much money), and the increasing affluence of American society over the two centuries covered by the table.

Note that the figures are for direct costs only, omitting pension costs, which tended to triple the ultimate outlays. The table also omits the cost of damage to the national infrastructure during those wars waged on American soil. Confederate figures are estimated.

For the Gulf War it is worth noting that various members of the allied coalition reimbursed the U.S. for 88-percent ($54 billion) of the amount shown, so the actual cost to the taxpayer was only about $7 billion, roughly the same as for the Spanish-American War, and on a per capita basis only $26.92, arguably the least expensive war in the nation's history.

[ultraflip]

research goes to: http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm

[x[corwyn]]

Sounds like we need to start sending the bill to these countries the illegals are from. Then once they don't pay...Then we get our land for our tracks..

[Terry S]

]
Sounds like we need to start sending the bill to these countries the illegals are from. Then once they don't pay...Then we get our land for our tracks..


lol. single minded much? jk

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

forgot to mention that it is cheap labor for employers



Cheap labor doesnt do anything for the general public. Cheap labor means that they good or service can still be sold at regular price and allow the business to make more profit.

[x[corwyn]]

]
Sounds like we need to start sending the bill to these countries the illegals are from. Then once they don't pay...Then we get our land for our tracks..


lol. single minded much? jk

Terry S


Hey I want everyone to be happy to. Elect me President and I'll solve this issue... Drugs will be legalized and then put through the FDA process...generate taxes from that, removing a good chunk of crime. Immigration issues will be simplified. If not followed then they get deported. No more blue laws. Removal of gun control laws...2nd Amendment shall be allowed to breathe again. Revision of speed limits and getting driving licenses. Daylight savings will be done away with. Revision of child support/Alimony laws. Allow for Gay/Lesbian marriage, and polygamous marriage. No welfare except in extreme cases. If on welfare, mandated birth control. Etc etc.... I'll never get elected, but I sure like my platform. I bet no one else does though....

[Terry S]

]



]
Sounds like we need to start sending the bill to these countries the illegals are from. Then once they don't pay...Then we get our land for our tracks..


lol. single minded much? jk

Terry S


Hey I want everyone to be happy to. Elect me President and I'll solve this issue...
Drugs will be legalized and then put through the FDA process...generate taxes from that, removing a good chunk of crime. Immigration issues will be simplified. If not followed then they get deported. No more blue laws. Removal of gun control laws...2nd Amendment shall be allowed to breathe again. Revision of speed limits and getting driving licenses. Daylight savings will be done away with. Revision of child support/Alimony laws. Allow for Gay/Lesbian marriage, and polygamous marriage. No welfare except in extreme cases. If on welfare, mandated birth control. Etc etc.... I'll never get elected, but I sure like my platform. I bet no one else does though....


I'd vote for you if it weren't for your drug stance. And if I actually voted.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

]



]
Sounds like we need to start sending the bill to these countries the illegals are from. Then once they don't pay...Then we get our land for our tracks..


lol. single minded much? jk

Terry S


Hey I want everyone to be happy to. Elect me President and I'll solve this issue...
Drugs will be legalized and then put through the FDA process...generate taxes from that, removing a good chunk of crime. Immigration issues will be simplified. If not followed then they get deported. No more blue laws. Removal of gun control laws...2nd Amendment shall be allowed to breathe again. Revision of speed limits and getting driving licenses. Daylight savings will be done away with. Revision of child support/Alimony laws. Allow for Gay/Lesbian marriage, and polygamous marriage. No welfare except in extreme cases. If on welfare, mandated birth control. Etc etc.... I'll never get elected, but I sure like my platform. I bet no one else does though....


I'd vote for you if it weren't for your drug stance. And if I actually voted.

Terry S
My drug stance isn't for so much cause I want everyone on drugs, its based upon what we saw before, during, and after prohibition. The people who want drugs will get them anyway. The crime and effort we spend to keep people from taking drugs is incredible, and over time will go up even more. This is an expenditure that only generates profits for the bad guys.

After a while of being legal, and of people not accepting people being on drugs, any more so of being drunk, or smoking, you will see that it is pretty much frowned upon. It will then be a social issue and one that is not accepted. Even if drugs are legal you still can't drive while on them, you can't go in public all doped up, and you can't work while on them. Yo ucan still have the same laws as alcohol with them. Also by drugs I mean things like marijuana and other drugs that are proven to be no less toxic than alcohol.

I know its unpopular but over time I bet it would prove itself. Look at smoking. I don't know too many people that smoke, and the ones that do feel like they now have to hide it, and a good chunk of them also have stopped as well.

[Terry S]

Well, i'm not for drinking or smoking either. Same category as drugs to me. All a big waste of time and money. If you want to use them, then you want a bullet in the head from my gun.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

Well, i'm not for drinking or smoking either. Same category as drugs to me. All a big waste of time and money. If you want to use them, then you want a bullet in the head from my gun.

Terry S


Im not down with smoking either. bad habit. Drinking in moderation to me is ok. Drugs? Not so much. Bullet in the head is a tad bit of overkill to me though. Pity or keep minimal contact though is what I usually do.

[ultraflip]

]


Well, i'm not for drinking or smoking either. Same category as drugs to me. All a big waste of time and money. If you want to use them, then you want a bullet in the head from my gun.

Terry S


Im not down with smoking either. bad habit. Drinking in moderation to me is ok. Drugs? Not so much. Bullet in the head is a tad bit of overkill to me though. Pity or keep minimal contact though is what I usually do.


there's no room/time in this world for pitty

[WavMixer]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.

[KRS333]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.


LOL!!! Go on Wave. Yeah it is crazy how the fast food chains just jumped on giving illegals jobs. I to worked at McDANOLDS & it sure was different back in the days. But I do agree with some jobs I would not do that illegals actually do. But the more freedom you giver them the worst things will get here. Just close down the borders & whoever is actually able to stay here then good for. Other then that if some Americans turn there back on there on Country by joining a Terrorist group amaging what illegals will do for a dollar? Like WAV said. FUCK THAT!

[gofaster87]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.


Nevada is a little different, most of the drive thrus Ive been at have English speaking people working them. Many of them are actually white. Took me a while to adjust but its nice.

[Miss Evo8]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.


Nevada is a little different, most of the drive thrus Ive been at have English speaking people working them. Many of them are actually white. Took me a while to adjust but its nice.


so they don't say..."Yumbo Yack" over there? :D

[j_nizzle]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.


Nevada is a little different, most of the drive thrus Ive been at have English speaking people working them. Many of them are actually white. Took me a while to adjust but its nice.


so they don't say..."Yumbo Yack" over there? :D


lol!!!

dave chappelle said it best, no one would ever think of assassinating any president with a mexican vice president because then the border would just open up..."isnt that right mr. santiago?!"

"SI!"

[GokuSSJ4]

OK, here is my .02 on the subject. Many of you who have met me know that Mrs. Wav is of Mexican decent. She was born her, her parents were born here and her grand parents came here legally. I have nothing against Mexicans born here or down below.

Now that y'all know that I'm not a racist, I gotta tell you that this situation really pisses me off. I keep hearing that these illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do. BULLSHIT!! I go to McDonald's, Taco Bell, Weinerschnitzel or any fast food establishment and most all of the employees can barely speak english. WTF? Last weekend I was in the OC and was suprised to hear a clear American accent come from the drive thru speaker. When I was 15, McDonalds was my first job. Up until recently fast food establishments were the primary source for kids entering the job market. No longer is this true. These jobs are now filled with non-english speaking illegal aliens. The whole fact that these illegals can protest on our streets and hold up traffic on the freeway really pisses me off!! Can you tell that I'm opinionated on this subject?

If I wanted to go to Mexico and buy property, the laws there prevent that. WTF? They can come here and buy property, but we can't buy property there?WTF?

People from countries south of Mexico can't come into Mexico illegally, they inforce their souther borders to keep others from doing what they are doing here. Once again WTF?

If we give amnisty to all of the illegals here now and then start a temporary guest worker program, all the new former Mexican citizens will have the power to vote to open the borders up completly. To this I say FUCK YOU!

Send their asses back to Mexico and let Vicente Fox make jobs for them. Then our children will once again have a career path.


Nevada is a little different, most of the drive thrus Ive been at have English speaking people working them. Many of them are actually white. Took me a while to adjust but its nice.


so they don't say..."Yumbo Yack" over there? :D


lol!!!

dave chappelle said it best, no one would ever think of assassinating any president with a mexican vice president because then the border would just open up..."isnt that right mr. santiago?!"

"SI!"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA O0

[Highrever]

so they don't say..."Yumbo Yack" over there?


HAHAHAA.

"Kkkk, we have Coka, Peksi, Esprite"



Seriously though, America is screwed, I'm going to retire in Europe somewhere, maybe a nice little cottage town at the base of the Alps, maybe Germany close to the Nurburgring, I'm not anti-America, i love this country i'm just a realist, That is if I even make it to retirement.

[desertRS]

did you guys hear about the farms up in cali saying that allÂ* their products(meaning strawberries,peaches fruits and vegs are going badÂ* Â*due to......Â* no one to pick them? this is what the US gets, scares the employers and they stop hiring illegals ,yes illegals that means no labor laws, no minimum wageÂ* law, no breaks, and workingÂ* in the 100 degree sun? now tell me what "us citizen" is going to work like a slave for 3Â* dollars a hour? i know i wouldn't. if all you see is Mexicans working at fast food places not "teenage us citizen" its because Mexicans bust their ass for minimum wage and wont "hook up" there friendsÂ* when they come in. Growing up in a household where your entire family is illegal isnt as easy and peachy as you all think, and about using the system and getting welfare, i know more welfare rednecks up in the desert in 3 yearsÂ* than in the 15 years of living in south central withÂ* illegal Mexicans none who were on welfare why? because they have no papers,no paper NO services you guys need to stop watching the newsÂ* my 2 cents :)

[x[corwyn]]

did you guys about the farms up in cali saying that all their products(meaning strawberries,peaches fruits and vegs are going bad due to...... no one to pick them? this what the US gets scares the employers and they stop hiring illegals ,yes that means no labor laws, no minimum wage law, no breaks, and working in the 100 degree sun? now tell me what "us citizen" is going to work like that for 3 dollars a hour? i know i wouldn't. if all you see is Mexicans working at fast food places not "teenage us citizen" its because Mexicans bust their ass for minimum wage and wont "hook up" there friends when they come in. Growing up in a household where your entire family is illegal isnt as easy and peachy as you all think, and about using the system and getting welfare, i know more welfare rednecks up in the desert in 3 years than in the 15 years of living in south central with illegal Mexicans none who were on welfare why? because they have no papers,no paper NO services you guys need to stop watching the news my 2 cents :)


HOLY NECRO BUMP!

Didnt read too much into the thought out answers there, huh?

[desertRS]

wtf?

[x[corwyn]]

wtf?


March 31, 2006, 02:08:04 PM

Last post was from then. Dead thread reviving AKA necro bumping.

Soooooooo what are you selling?

[UMIAMI80]

Basically with these immigrants you gotta lay down the traps with the food in them.Â* Basically the trap is disguised as a Chrome 22Inch rim which is filed with a time released poisen. The tap can also be activated with an abundance of Spanish language spoken onlywith thick accents so that our Spanish speaking American born brothers will not be harmed.Â* Once Hector comes rolling along and see's the rim, he will have no choice but to steal it and bring it home to his 1 room apartment to show his family along with the other 50 people living with him.Â* These rims work great and the toxin is so strong that it even kills the eggs. After a while it should really thin the herd down to managible numbers, but then we will have an abundence of tiny pickup trucks around, oh well.

[desertRS]

ignorance must be bliss lol

[Evo8you]

^^No Shit who the fuck is that ass!!! I have some rat food (the blue kind) to give him for Chistmas!!

[Granny Shifter]

There are two problems with the average American. They are:
A. Lazy
B. Require more money than they deserve.

A+B= employers outsourcing americans by finding cheaper labor in countries like China, India, Korea, etc. This is resulting in their GDP ratings to go up and ours to decline.

[desertRS]

There are two problems with the average American. They are:
A. Lazy
B. Require more money than they deserve.

A+B= employers outsourcing americans by finding cheaper labor in countries like China, India, Korea, etc. This is resulting in their GDP ratings to go up and ours to decline.



+1

[gofaster87]

There are two problems with the average American. They are:
A. Lazy
B. Require more money than they deserve.

A+B= employers outsourcing americans by finding cheaper labor in countries like China, India, Korea, etc. This is resulting in their GDP ratings to go up and ours to decline.


Besides being a little more complicated economic wise, Americans require more money because cost of living is ridiculous. I would rather not live with 10 other people in a 1000 sq ft home. Most casino employees start at 13/hr and do you think that pays for any living expense out here? Most people have two jobs and multiple incomes in the household. Last time I checked illegals on the street corner in Ventura county were asking 9/hr minimum with lunch paid for and the strawberry pickers were making a shitload of money. I know plenty of hard working Americans out here and their hard work, with or without a degree, doesnt pay enough to live on so spare me the overpaid lazy bullshit. The debt to income ratio is so bad out here, due to the increases in cost of living and wages at a standstill, that many people cant afford gas.

[Granny Shifter]

One of the problems is economic diversity. Our country is extremely wasteful with money. This is what causes things like a higher cost of living due to our extravagant wants. A celebrity, who plays sports; makes a movie; etc., is paid millions upon millions of dollars. Those who make a difference in the world don't get compensated correctly. Doesn't a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize recieve a million dollars for an achievement that changes the world? These days, children are aiming to be these celebrities instead of hard workers. As for illegal immigrants, they do not make set wages constantly. They might work for only an hour in a day. Even they have stiff competition from each other.

[Terry S]

mr. UMiami80 is an old troll from EvoM. Just ignore/ban him.

Terry S

[Blaze]

There are two problems with the average American. They are:
A. Lazy
B. Require more money than they deserve.

A+B= employers outsourcing americans by finding cheaper labor in countries like China, India, Korea, etc. This is resulting in their GDP ratings to go up and ours to decline.


Besides being a little more complicated economic wise, Americans require more money because cost of living is ridiculous. I would rather not live with 10 other people in a 1000 sq ft home. Most casino employees start at 13/hr and do you think that pays for any living expense out here? Most people have two jobs and multiple incomes in the household. Last time I checked illegals on the street corner in Ventura county were asking 9/hr minimum with lunch paid for and the strawberry pickers were making a shitload of money. I know plenty of hard working Americans out here and their hard work, with or without a degree, doesnt pay enough to live on so spare me the overpaid lazy bullshit. The debt to income ratio is so bad out here, due to the increases in cost of living and wages at a standstill, that many people cant afford gas.


Holy crap!
Sam Lives!!!

[UMIAMI80]

mr. UMiami80 is an old troll from EvoM. Just ignore/ban him.

Terry S



Sorry Sweetheart, Ima be here for a while, especially with threads that have no moderation.

[ultraflip]

mr. UMiami80 is an old troll from EvoM. Just ignore/ban him.

Terry S



Sorry Sweetheart, Ima be here for a while, especially with threads that have no moderation.



*ahem*



Although this forum is NOT MODERATED, it is NOT a trash forum, which means there should be no smut, no snuff, no crap that's not POLITICAL, if you are looking for that kind of shit, go somewhere else.

Even though it says it's NOT MODERATED the moderator staff reserves the right to DELETE or EDIT whatever they want.

[ultraflip]

son of a motherfucking goatfucking whore

[UMIAMI80]

Welp, atleast I have an example to live and post by.



Anyway......Yes the U.S. is being invaded and they are a drain on our economy. Make them all pay taxes if they wish to stay, not squeeze out "Anchor babies" and then collect Food Stamps and free housing when they have no intention of paying taxes with under the table jobs.

[x[corwyn]]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18411370/

an illegal immigrant complained he isnt a criminal. ?! Apparently they don't quite get what "illegal immigrant" translates into.

I will say this. At least they were flying American Flags this time.

Oh yea and look at how Atlanta is doing things.... They NEED to be doing things like that here - "No rallies were planned in Atlanta, where 50,000 marched last year, because many immigrants were afraid of the raids and of a new state law set to take effect in July. The law requires verification that adults seeking non-emergency state-administered benefits are in the country legally, sanctions employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and requires police to check the immigration status of people they arrest. "

And apparently last year's walkouts generated a slightly different effect than the illegals were hoping for.... - "After last year’s protests, reform legislation stalled in Congress and bipartisan proposals for illegal immigrants to gain citizenship have gotten more conservative"

Entertaining. Hopefully we can just get rid of the benefits for illegals and they will scurry away like they scurried in here.

[Granny Shifter]

Actually the United States isn't being invaded. We are invading others with globalization and "Americanism".

[Terry S]

Actually the United States isn't being invaded. We are invading others with globalization and "Americanism".


It's not invading. It's helping. Everyone else has it wrong. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so poor, dirty or gay.

Terry S

[Granny Shifter]

^but what about countries that want to retain their culture?

[Terry S]

^but what about countries that want to retain their culture?


Retaining your culture is fine. But if its got problems (which they all do), then embrace the cultures who got it better than your own did.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

I think trying to retain a culture that is still based out of medievel ideas and concepts and a world resource is there with everyone that surrounds it and controls it completely incapable of being peaceful and able to cohabitate, its time to inact the laws and culture that they desire to live by. Americans try to give a civilised and helpful hand that befits thinking thats based in the 21st century.

Problem is we expect the people we are helping to also be in the 21st century. They are no better than uncivilized barbarians, part of a time thats fun to romaticize, but is really best forgotten.

[Terry S]

]
Problem is we expect the people we are helping to also be in the 21st century. They are no better than uncivilized barbarians, part of a time thats fun to romaticize, but is really best forgotten.


TRUTH.

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

Actually the United States isn't being invaded. We are invading others with globalization and "Americanism".


It's not invading. It's helping. Everyone else has it wrong. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so poor, dirty or gay.

Terry S


first time I read it, I thought sarcasm, then I remembered it was you posting.

So you think we are still trying to help in Iraq? If by saying "help" you mean, de-stabilize the country, by removing any sort of local, or state law enforcement and replace it with an occupying force, send over 150,000 well paid mercenaries to protect Oil resources that will never be given to the rightful owners, assist in furthering a 1000 year old secular divide ultimately resulting in a civil war, then I guess that would be a fair word to use.

[x[corwyn]]

Actually the United States isn't being invaded. We are invading others with globalization and "Americanism".


It's not invading. It's helping. Everyone else has it wrong. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so poor, dirty or gay.

Terry S


first time I read it, I thought sarcasm, then I remembered it was you posting.

So you think we are still trying to help in Iraq? If by saying "help" you mean, de-stabilize the country, by removing any sort of local, or state law enforcement and replace it with an occupying force, send over 150,000 well paid mercenaries to protect Oil resources that will never be given to the rightful owners, assist in furthering a 1000 year old secular divide ultimately resulting in a civil war, then I guess that would be a fair word to use.


I think by help we are trying to do things by our values, our ideals, and the way we feel we should get them done.

They don't understand that.

What they DO understand is getting their ass kicked, and kicked so hard that they dont get back up. They see what we are trying to do as a weakness. Our being nice is getting us kicked in the teeth and making this job WAY harder than it needs to be. Also getting more people killed than need be.

Also importantly, we fought for our freedom. We got this country the way it is because we fought, and fought hard. I think we as Americans fail to realise that other people just dont have that drive or desire to have that ability. Some people LIKE having a dictatorship. They draw comfort from that type of rule. They dont want or have not been taught to be able to make decisions for themselves. Our way of life is scary, and chaotic.....

It still goes back to medievel thinking. Sometimes I really think whole peoples just need to fade into the past where they belong and stay there. They cant function in the society that needs to be with this many people, this many ideals, and religions.

[Macky]

I say do a repeat of how WWII was ended and bomb their asses back to the stone age where they belong. they are like bacteria, you kill a few, more sprout in between.

the US has the ability to take them on their "an eye for an eye" way of thinking. if only there were no politics and people afraid of repercussions, this could have been over a long time ago with probably no american lives lost.

[evobeaner]

would ultraflip be bringing this up if the illegals where philipinos instead of mexicans?
maybe irish, german, dutch, french, russian, or etc. it is really easy to be patriotic and such when it is not your race.
most of you would sing a different tune if it was your people being blamed for all of the social problems that exist in our country today. honestly ask yourself if your destiny was fucked up by a mexican lately.

[evobeaner]

Basically with these immigrants you gotta lay down the traps with the food in them.Â* Basically the trap is disguised as a Chrome 22Inch rim which is filed with a time released poisen. The tap can also be activated with an abundance of Spanish language spoken onlywith thick accents so that our Spanish speaking American born brothers will not be harmed.Â* Once Hector comes rolling along and see's the rim, he will have no choice but to steal it and bring it home to his 1 room apartment to show his family along with the other 50 people living with him.Â* These rims work great and the toxin is so strong that it even kills the eggs. After a while it should really thin the herd down to managible numbers, but then we will have an abundence of tiny pickup trucks around, oh well.






so i guess to trap a white man we lace your macaroni and cheese with aids infected spooge.
these skinhead cholo wannabe gansters are the minority in mexican culture. not the majority bud.
as i can attest that a poor white trash trailor park toothless welfare living whiteman is not the majority of your people man!

[x[corwyn]]

would ultraflip be bringing this up if the illegals where philipinos instead of mexicans?
maybe irish, german, dutch, french, russian, or etc. it is really easy to be patriotic and such when it is not your race.
most of you would sing a different tune if it was your people being blamed for all of the social problems that exist in our country today. honestly ask yourself if your destiny was fucked up by a mexican lately.


I can honestly say that seeing my education, and even worse, my Daughter's education diminish and grow very limited because of ESL type programs and "No Child Left Behind" that having people here that wont even bother learning English well enough to function in school and work is a detriment to myself and my family.

I can say after working as a hospital biller for 3+ years and seeing exactly what we American citizens have to pay out for the free ride illegals get is a detriment to myself.

I can say after having a motorcycle stolen and a nice car broken into because I was too close to Santa Ana and some Mexicans, I know of at least stole the Motorcycle.

Back to the Health Care, I know that 49% of American Citizens dont have Health Care because its too damned expensive and its all because we subsidize illegals.

The Free Ride has to end some point. We are all paying for it, and we dont get a damned thing from it. If you think some strawberries picked or some landscaping getting done is worth it, I 110% disagree with you. *I* mowed lawns and weeded, and worked in front areas when I was a teen for extra money. I did a damn good job too. I also worked as a Car detailer for a few years as well. There are plenty of people out there that are legal and can do those jobs if the illegals just up and dissapear. .....And thats even ASSUMING they are working not on a handout program.

Instead of saying that since they are my people so I *HAVE * to defend what they are doing even if it is a drain, and its wrong....Do like my buddy Jorge does. He encourages the Mexicans he works with to better themselves instead of making excuses for them. He'll offer to help them study, get them into contact with people that can get them legal green cards etc etc. He does the right thing, the right way, and encourages "His people" to do the same. I am extremely proud to have that man as a friend, and even prouder that a man such as that calls me a friend. Your "people" would do well to follow his lead. If only more of you were that way.

[evobeaner]

could it also be possible that the war in iraq would have something to do with the limited amount of funds for education.
the free ride also applies to other races not just ours.
that is a sad problem some of these hoodlums do. on that part i would welcome a more aggressive stance against criminals. but again these people reflect the minority of latinos.
i applaud your friend for doing the right thing. i myself am a u.s born mexican/american working with many people who have gone about it the right way. the problem is a few bad apples make us look like an infestation instead of people who have no choice but to flee a country who does very little to keep them there.
the average illegal will make about $50 tops a week in mexico. so basically the root cause is their own country not creating an infrastructure of prosperity to prosper in.
i respect your opinions and beliefs man.
i have a friend of mine at work that is black. he keeps going on and on that his people never get an opportunity to work because of all the mexicans.
i told him straight out that it is not a mexican problem, but a black one. face it. the majority of black men are lazy when it comes to work. thats why they rarely prosper in our work. not because of latinos.
this could go on and on but i have got to hit the hay and haul ass at work tomorrow bro.

[Granny Shifter]

Its weird how many say mexico is poor when it has the seventh highest gdp...

[x[corwyn]]

could it also be possible that the war in iraq would have something to do with the limited amount of funds for education.
the free ride also applies to other races not just ours.
that is a sad problem some of these hoodlums do. on that part i would welcome a more aggressive stance against criminals. but again these people reflect the minority of latinos.
i applaud your friend for doing the right thing. i myself am a u.s born mexican/american working with many people who have gone about it the right way. the problem is a few bad apples make us look like an infestation instead of people who have no choice but to flee a country who does very little to keep them there.
the average illegal will make about $50 tops a week in mexico. so basically the root cause is their own country not creating an infrastructure of prosperity to prosper in.
i respect your opinions and beliefs man.
i have a friend of mine at work that is black. he keeps going on and on that his people never get an opportunity to work because of all the mexicans.
i told him straight out that it is not a mexican problem, but a black one. face it. the majority of black men are lazy when it comes to work. thats why they rarely prosper in our work. not because of latinos.
this could go on and on but i have got to hit the hay and haul ass at work tomorrow bro.


I worked at the hospital back in 1994-1997. We were not in Iraq then. Just as how we see the war in Iraq as a stupid obscene amount of money on a no gain enterprise, thats exactly the same sentiment we have for taking care of illegals, which I might add is better than how we treat our own citizens. "A few bad apples" isnt whats going on here. Its A LOT of bad apples and then having their 20 brothers and sisters, their grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, and so on showing up over here and taking over.

Not to mention if its too hard to get a green card, then its too hard for you to get by here. I mean really... Effectively this is all about how we are treating people who can't handle the system thats here, and we feel sorry for them and try to coddle them. The reality is they need to be hit in the face with a cold hard wet fish and learn how to play the game like everyone else is. Which includes going about getting here the right way.

As for lazyness from Blacks. Yea I have seen that. I have seen that from whites in ghetto areas too and Mexicans as well. The ones that get past being angry with everyone else and thinking they should get a free handout are the ones that become successful. Sounds like that could be applied to the illegals marching across for the free handouts. Sayyyyy....

[Terry S]

Actually the United States isn't being invaded. We are invading others with globalization and "Americanism".


It's not invading. It's helping. Everyone else has it wrong. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so poor, dirty or gay.

Terry S


first time I read it, I thought sarcasm, then I remembered it was you posting.

So you think we are still trying to help in Iraq? If by saying "help" you mean, de-stabilize the country, by removing any sort of local, or state law enforcement and replace it with an occupying force, send over 150,000 well paid mercenaries to protect Oil resources that will never be given to the rightful owners, assist in furthering a 1000 year old secular divide ultimately resulting in a civil war, then I guess that would be a fair word to use.


Hello my friend, long time no see. :)

We're still trying to help in Iraq but as it's always been, its a lost cause. I'm still for being over there and killing people, but honestly, if we pulled out today or in 5 years, its not really going to change anything. Not until people over there give up their "culture" will things change. Same with everyone south of our border too..

Terry S

[Terry S]

I say do a repeat of how WWII was ended and bomb their asses back to the stone age where they belong. they are like bacteria, you kill a few, more sprout in between.

the US has the ability to take them on their "an eye for an eye" way of thinking. if only there were no politics and people afraid of repercussions, this could have been over a long time ago with probably no american lives lost.


Bombing cant be done with CommiecratSoftNuts in control.

The military hasn't been in control of its own performance since Korea and I seriously doubt it will ever get it back (short of some nuclear holocaust)

Terry S

[Terry S]

could it also be possible that the war in iraq would have something to do with the limited amount of funds for education.
the free ride also applies to other races not just ours.
...snip...
the average illegal will make about $50 tops a week in mexico. so basically the root cause is their own country not creating an infrastructure of prosperity to prosper in.
i respect your opinions and beliefs man.
i have a friend of mine at work that is black. he keeps going on and on that his people never get an opportunity to work because of all the mexicans.
i told him straight out that it is not a mexican problem, but a black one. face it. the majority of black men are lazy when it comes to work. thats why they rarely prosper in our work. not because of latinos.
this could go on and on but i have got to hit the hay and haul ass at work tomorrow bro.


Responses in order of sentence order:

- No. Most school funding comes from State coffers. Also, Healthcare & associated programs make up a MUCH larger portion of the budget compared to the war in Iraq.

- Correct, but those from south of our border make up the vast majority.

- So you complain that the culture in Mexico is fucked up so its our responsibility to fix it? I think a few people in this thread would like everyone to stay out of other peoples cultures because we have no right to change it (i'm not one of them. I say we fix it if possible [not possible in mexico])

- And while I agree that its the lazy people complaining about the "lack of jobs" (because there isnt one in the slightest), it is more difficult for a citizen of the US to survive on minimum wage than it is for an illegal making less than minimum wage.

Terry S

[Terry S]

Its weird how many say mexico is poor when it has the seventh highest gdp...


Depending on which GDP rating your talking about, Mexico is definitely not seventh per Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico

Check out the right side of the page in the "quick facts" section.

And again, since Mexico has been considered, "...since 1994, Mexico is firmly established as an upper middle-income country..." then its apparent that the culture itself is either encouraging the emmigration or the culture there is unable to coordinate its own wealth. Either way, the culture & government (one in the same) is incorrect and wrong.

Terry S

[Terry S]

And as a topper, i'd like to say that Mr. X is yet again spot on.

Terry S

[Macky]

would ultraflip be bringing this up if the illegals where philipinos instead of mexicans?
maybe irish, german, dutch, french, russian, or etc. it is really easy to be patriotic and such when it is not your race.
most of you would sing a different tune if it was your people being blamed for all of the social problems that exist in our country today. honestly ask yourself if your destiny was fucked up by a mexican lately.


i wouldnt sing a different tune. i despise people of all nationalities that enter the US illegally. Im an equal-opportunity hater. and you can quote me on that. whats wrong is wrong, no matter the color of your skin or your race. this is a matter that should be looked at in black and white, not grayed out by politics or other bullshit.

im actually pissed that there are some flips that enter the US with a tourist visa and disappear, or get pregnant. thats total bull. they spent what, a plane ticket and a visa fee? my family spent hundreds, if not thousands and nearly 18 years to permanently be a resident and a legal alien. X corwyn said it best:


Not to mention if its too hard to get a green card, then its too hard for you to get by here. I mean really... Effectively this is all about how we are treating people who can't handle the system thats here, and we feel sorry for them and try to coddle them. The reality is they need to be hit in the face with a cold hard wet fish and learn how to play the game like everyone else is. Which includes going about getting here the right way.



put it this way, if you cannot enter the US legally with a clear conscience then in my opinion I dont think you should go here at all. you pay to play. these illegal immigrants are CHEATING, plain and simple. i say deport them and all their baggage back. ive seen news videos of filipino illegals getting deported on a chartered flight back to manila, and i would be lying if i said i felt sorry for them. they deserved it and i would not hesitate to pack their asses back myself, given the chance.

[Macky]

I say do a repeat of how WWII was ended and bomb their asses back to the stone age where they belong. they are like bacteria, you kill a few, more sprout in between.

the US has the ability to take them on their "an eye for an eye" way of thinking. if only there were no politics and people afraid of repercussions, this could have been over a long time ago with probably no american lives lost.


Bombing cant be done with CommiecratSoftNuts in control.

The military hasn't been in control of its own performance since Korea and I seriously doubt it will ever get it back (short of some nuclear holocaust)

Terry S


we need a renegade general with a finger on a nuke button. he can burn in hell for the rest of his life but i think he would solve over half the problems the military has now.

[Terry S]

we need a renegade general with a finger on a nuke button. he can burn in hell for the rest of his life but i think he would solve over half the problems the military has now.


You rang?

(GenKai) Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167

2 illegal aliens that did Home Invasions got theirs..... From an 11 year old girl. Problem solved.

Incidentally Arizona's militia groups formed up because of illegals coming across and destrying farms, stealing, and performing home invasions. I can't say I blame them. I'd get a web cam and a .50 cal machine gun and start playing a little video game....

[x[corwyn]]

we need a renegade general with a finger on a nuke button. he can burn in hell for the rest of his life but i think he would solve over half the problems the military has now.


You rang?

(GenKai) Terry S


Attack Canada. Surprise the fuck out of them. Payback for the war of 1812 and helping the British sack the White House. Bastards.

[Macky]

]
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167

2 illegal aliens that did Home Invasions got theirs..... From an 11 year old girl. Problem solved.

Incidentally Arizona's militia groups formed up because of illegals coming across and destrying farms, stealing, and performing home invasions. I can't say I blame them. I'd get a web cam and a .50 cal machine gun and start playing a little video game....


if i play that game, i want god mode - unlimited ammo.

[Macky]

we need a renegade general with a finger on a nuke button. he can burn in hell for the rest of his life but i think he would solve over half the problems the military has now.


You rang?

(GenKai) Terry S


yes, whats taking you so long?

[Terry S]

]
Attack Canada. Surprise the fuck out of them. Payback for the war of 1812 and helping the British sack the White House. Bastards.


Canada is worth annexing. Everything south of the US border is not.

The order of operations is:

1) Canada
2) China
3) Russia
4) India
5) Rest of the world.

Terry S

[Terry S]

yes, whats taking you so long?


Still working on my "good boy" front so the masses dont see it coming.

Terry S

[cky_bam_marg]

]
Attack Canada. Surprise the fuck out of them. Payback for the war of 1812 and helping the British sack the White House. Bastards.


Canada is worth annexing. Everything south of the US border is not.

The order of operations is:

1) Canada
2) China
3) Russia
4) India
5) Rest of the world.

Terry S


but why india? wouldnt great britian, japan, or australia be a tad bit more fitting or a top 5 conquest?

[x[corwyn]]

]
Attack Canada. Surprise the fuck out of them. Payback for the war of 1812 and helping the British sack the White House. Bastards.


Canada is worth annexing. Everything south of the US border is not.

The order of operations is:

1) Canada
2) China
3) Russia
4) India
5) Rest of the world.

Terry S


but why india? wouldnt great britian, japan, or australia be a tad bit more fitting or a top 5 conquest?


Yea I would have to put that or Germany, France (easy win), North Korea (finish the job), Phillipines (Kicked us out of our nice bases there and then proceeded to screw them up), Argentina (just for pissing us off so much lately), Cuba (For crissakes its WAY past time taking a threat thats 80 miles off our coast), and especially Iran and the rest of the wacked out nut jobs. Here lies middle east the world's largest sheet of glass.

[Macky]

i figured this is worth mentioning since we are in the subject of illegal aliens...

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167



Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez 23 and Enrico Garza 26, probably believed they would easily overpower a home alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things, they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine. Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buck shot from the 11 year olds knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. The victim, 50 year old David Burien, was not so lucky as he died from stab wounds to the chest.



they got what they deserved.

[Terry S]

China, India & Russia hold the vast majority of the worlds land, population and expoitable resources. All of the european nations hold no real value as a captured country. It's basically a bigger fish kinda thing. The ones I listed are bigger prizes with significantly bigger value in the long run. Once you hold the majority, you can bully the little fish easier.

That and thats how you do it in the video game Superpowers. LOL

Terry S

[Terry S]

i figured this is worth mentioning since we are in the subject of illegal aliens...

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167



Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez 23 and Enrico Garza 26, probably believed they would easily overpower a home alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things, they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine. Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buck shot from the 11 year olds knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. The victim, 50 year old David Burien, was not so lucky as he died from stab wounds to the chest.



they got what they deserved.


That girl is a hero and did everyone a great service. I would rather give her a $100k check (tax free) for her actions than give 10 poor people $100k worth of welfare & medicaid.

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

FYI, as soon as we leave Iraq, the civil war will end.

When the administration says something, I usually just take the exact opposite as the real truth.

The only reason insurgents even stay in Iraq is because the US military stops those who actually want a productive Iraq from forcing out those looking to destroy the country.

[j_nizzle]

i figured this is worth mentioning since we are in the subject of illegal aliens...

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167



Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez 23 and Enrico Garza 26, probably believed they would easily overpower a home alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things, they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine. Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buck shot from the 11 year olds knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. The victim, 50 year old David Burien, was not so lucky as he died from stab wounds to the chest.



they got what they deserved.


That girl is a hero and did everyone a great service. I would rather give her a $100k check (tax free) for her actions than give 10 poor people $100k worth of welfare & medicaid.

Terry S


it definately wouldnt hurt us...the money she spends would be circulated back into our economy somehow anyway...on the other hand, any money we spend on illegals might be spent back in their home country or their paychecks sent back to help their families over there. our economy sucks as much as theirs does, we just do a better job hiding it. meh.

[Terry S]

FYI, as soon as we leave Iraq, the civil war will end.

When the administration says something, I usually just take the exact opposite as the real truth.

The only reason insurgents even stay in Iraq is because the US military stops those who actually want a productive Iraq from forcing out those looking to destroy the country.


Oh come one dude, you know that the only reason why ANY fighting over there will stop is because one side won out against the other, not because we pull out.

Iraq has been in a civil war for decades now. The only reason why it hasn't been active is because Saddam made sure that "his side" won more often than not. He may not have had any WMD's at the start of this, but all we did was take out the winning side of the already existing civil war.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

FYI, as soon as we leave Iraq, the civil war will end.

When the administration says something, I usually just take the exact opposite as the real truth.

The only reason insurgents even stay in Iraq is because the US military stops those who actually want a productive Iraq from forcing out those looking to destroy the country.


Thanks Captain Obvious.

You had a minority before that was Sadam's group subjugating and killing off in mass people of the majority there. The people fighting are the ones that want this kind of control back. We leave and that happens. Except now we left the country in worse shape than we came in.

Don't get me wrong, George"Commander guy" Bush is a complete fucktard and history will judge him far more harshly than any other President in history....and its 110% deserved. However we came in there, screwed things up, and now we should fix it. Now how do we do that? Well that would be for people that are experts, and people well versed in these types of action. The whole toy soldier army approach that Cheney setup through his dick puppet Bush was extremely short sighted. Bush Sr. had the foresite to not remove Sadam because he knew what would happen and wasnt prepared to do what needed to be done to fix it.

Now thats happened we have to fix it. Its going to be very tough and its going to take a far more capable leader than I see in the mix right now angling for the job.

[IrsZer]

I don't think so.,By the way I am there last year Is there any new to that place.,?



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