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View Full Version : Multiple Immigration marches today - 04/10/06



Terry S
04-10-2006, 08:43 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html

National immigration marches kick off in Georgia

Monday, April 10, 2006; Posted: 10:49 a.m. EDT (14:49 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Thousands of marchers in white T-shirts filled the streets of an Atlanta neighborhood, one of dozens of nationwide immigration rights protests kicking off Monday.

Demonstrators in nearly 70 U.S. cities will be voicing support for an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants.

On what is dubbed a "national day of action for immigration justice," Atlanta's was one of 30 marches in the South alone as focus on the immigration issue turned from Congress to the streets.

Other large protests are planned in New York, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Seattle, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles.

They follow similar rallies Sunday in Dallas, Texas; St. Paul, Minnesota; Des Moines, Iowa; Long Island, New York; and Goshen, Indiana. (Watch opposing protesters chant at each other at an Indiana march -- 1:00)

The two-mile Atlanta march was in support of immigrant rights nationally as well as in protest of state legislation awaiting Gov. Sonny Perdue's signature, The Associated Press reported. If signed, it would require that adults seeking many state-administered benefits prove they are in the country legally, according to AP.

Carlos Carrera, a construction worker from Mexico, held a large banner that read: "We are not criminals. Give us a chance for a better life," AP reported.

In Manhattan -- where three rallies are set Monday -- demonstrators expect to cross the Brooklyn Bridge and march through Chinatown and Greenwich Village before converging on City Hall Park.

Last week's Senate legislation was hailed as a breakthrough before the compromise drafted by Republican Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mel Martinez of Florida failed to gain enough support in a vote. (Full story)

On Sunday, lawmakers traded blame for the impasse, but they agreed on one thing: The result may be no legislation at all.

"I hope it's savable," said Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts. "I hope politics doesn't get in the way."

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, said he is optimistic but added, "I'm always optimistic."

Specter, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told "Fox News Sunday" that "there's a real risk of significant political fallout here."

Both parties are looking to win over Latinos -- the nation's fastest-growing voting bloc -- in this year's midterm elections.

Divisions within GOP
Republicans are divided over two of the Senate bill's provisions -- a guest-worker program for noncitizens and a process allowing illegal immigrants to pursue legal status to stay in the country and obtain citizenship.

Some Republicans fear provisions helping illegal immigrants could damage the party's image as being tough on national security issues.

While some GOP Senate leaders have expressed support for provisions allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the country and obtain citizenship -- an idea espoused by President Bush -- others flatly reject it.

"A temporary-worker program that might be useful to supply labor needs in our country, when they exist, should be exactly that -- temporary -- so that when the work is not available for them, you haven't turned them into permanent legal residents and thereby created a situation where you have foreign workers here but no job for them," said Sen. John Kyl, R-Arizona.

Democrats largely support laying out an avenue to citizenship.

House bill focuses solely on security
But even if the Senate manages to pass a bill after a two-week recess for Easter, another uphill battle would follow: having to merge it with the bill passed by the House.

The House immigration legislation -- which has drawn fierce opposition from Latino groups -- calls for building a 700-mile-long security fence on the U.S.-Mexico border and for making illegal immigration a felony.

A joint committee of members of the House and Senate would have to hammer out a compromise.

"I think we can resolve the differences, and we can have a strong immigration-reform bill," House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."

But Boehner offered no indication how such a solution would be possible.

"I'm for securing the borders and enforcing the laws," he said. "Until we do that, if you try to create a guest-worker program, all you're doing is inviting more illegal immigration."

Rep. Peter King, R-New York, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, also indicated he would not support such legislation now.

"In 18 months or two years, we can go back and address that issue," King told "Fox News Sunday."

"But first we have to secure the borders. Otherwise we're just going to be taking a bad situation and compound it."

But Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Illinois, cast that position as unfair and impractical. "We do need reinforcement, but we also need compassion. We need a comprehensive bill, one that takes into account that there are 11 million undocumented workers currently in the United States," Gutierrez told NBC's "Meet the Press."

"The only sane, sensible, compassionate thing to do is to integrate them fully into the fabric of our society. ... And they're necessary to the economic well-being of our country. So let's include them."

CNN's Allan Chernoff contributed to this report.

Copyright 2006 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

Chris in SD
04-10-2006, 08:40 PM
It's easy to round up 100,000+ people when none of them have a job... Fucking waste of time - GO THE FUCK BACK TO MEXICO/EL SALVADOR/HONDURAS/GUATEMALA/CHINA/etc. and quit draining our national economy.

Absinthe
04-11-2006, 10:24 AM
You know why the gov't doesnt care aboput these marches? illegals cant vote, fuckem'

outlaw heart
04-11-2006, 05:18 PM
it's weird how the word "illegal" doesn't mean anything anymore.

Chris in SD
04-11-2006, 05:20 PM
it's weird how the word "illegal" doesn't mean anything anymore.


"illegal"? What is that? A sick bird? ;)

(Psst... for the real slow ones out there: Illegal = Ill Eagle, i.e. sick bird) :crazy2:

outlaw heart
04-11-2006, 05:28 PM
it's weird how the word "illegal" doesn't mean anything anymore.


"illegal"? What is that? A sick bird? ;)

(Psst... for the real slow ones out there: Illegal = Ill Eagle, i.e. sick bird) :crazy2:


lol.. we've got a regular comedian in here.

Macky
04-11-2006, 08:29 PM
and we've got a n00b here who doesnt know better.......:roll:

yooyooyoo
04-12-2006, 11:52 PM
It's easy to round up 100,000+ people when none of them have a job... Fucking waste of time - GO THE FUCK BACK TO MEXICO/EL SALVADOR/HONDURAS/GUATEMALA/CHINA/etc. and quit draining our national economy.


Actually it's the decendents from those countries that will be the next generation of Americans. I don't know if you've noticed, but Hispanics are nearly, if not already, the majority in Cali. Texas and other south western states are a close second.

Many a conservative economists judge the net effect of illegal immigration on our economy to be relatively neutral to slightly negative. Although frankly, I'm not sure how accurate these figures could possibly be considering that economics is a relative psuedo science (I studied economics in school). I imagine the net effect of the work output by illegal immigrants is greater to the overall American economy is far greater than credit is given. And since normal measurements are nearly impossible for this group, an actually accurate number might never be known.

Basically illegal immigrants are a ultra low wage work force with absolutely no rights. They can't vote, they can't sue, they get paid next to nothing, they have no health care benefits other than emergency room services. If you live in Cali/Texas/Az/NM and increasingly further north and eastward they touch every part of your life. From the restaurant you sit in to the food you eat. The produce that is so cheap and plentiful. The beef steak you cut into. The wood in the frame of your house. The frame itself, the cement, the grading that moved the dirt to make your house pad. The freshly mown lawn you walk to the leather dog collar you keep on your dog. They contribute to everything whether you like it or not.

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 12:24 AM
And another thing...

Immigrants, illegal or not, have and will continue to be the primary thing that keeps America on top of the world. Compare the population growth rates of first world countries like Japan, Western Europe and the US. What do Japan and Europe have in common that the US does not? Their populations are shrinking at alarming rates. They are not producing the workers of tomorrow, the tax earners, the children of the future that will generate the tax revenue to support their grand parents into retirement.

It makes the news in Italy and Japan that their birth rates are in the 1.4-1.7 range.

As has clearly been shown, once a nation becomes first world, its population growth slows down and stops and often begins to shrink. Except for America.

America has always had an open door policy. Immigrants have always come here and within a few generations become "American" in the eyes of larger America. While certain population groups in America have stabilized out and are not growing, it is our immigration policy that keeps our population growing.

See in Japan or Italy or Finland, if you're from somalia and born 10 generations into italy, you'll never really be Italian in the eyes of Italians. ITs the reason why those kids whose great grand parents from Morroco, third generation born in France, will never get jobs that the "real" french can get. B/c they have the wrong last name. B/c their skin is the wrong shade.

Its the reason that even if those countries did open their doors for immigration, their societies would never be able to handle it. Their homogoneous cultures that. tend to be xenophobic and reject outsiders

Now if you look at American history, you'll see that what is happening now to Hispanics is the same thing that has happened to every immigrant group throughout American history. What you hear the conservative talk show hosts speaking of today is the same rhetoric that has been used to attack every immigrant group throughout the history of this country. They are a drain on our economy, they overwhelm the system. Then they always tie it to some anecdotal evidence of some thing they heard from a friend or some incident that happened to them. Actually, its quite brillant the methods they use (conservative and liberal) to convince their audiences.

Go back in time. The skin shades might get lighter, but the blame game is still the same. There were the Irish that faced incredible discrimination. The Italians. The Eastern Europeans (poles and what not). African Americans, who at one point were immigrants and some of whom are immigrants today. The Chinese in the 1800's and the Chinese today. Now its the Hispanics turn.

Did you know the fourth largest broadcasting network in the US is in Spanish? I don't understand Spanish, but I watch the channel b/c the female newscasters are muy caliente.

Did you know that real estate developers are now developing multi-generational houses as tends to occur in HIspanic and Asian families? If you look at the Forbes list, how many of those are real estate tycoons... Thats right, most of them. Think they've figured something out that you might not have? They realize that these "hordes" of people are going to need houses, are going to make money, are going to need to spend that money. Their kids will make more money, according to historical trends and those kids will need to be catered to.

This is not your fathers planet, the world is changing. Everyday it gets smaller. The more people we have on our side from different places the better...

Terry S
04-13-2006, 08:39 AM
It's easy to round up 100,000+ people when none of them have a job... Fucking waste of time - GO THE FUCK BACK TO MEXICO/EL SALVADOR/HONDURAS/GUATEMALA/CHINA/etc. and quit draining our national economy.


Actually it's the decendents from those countries that will be the next generation of Americans. I don't know if you've noticed, but Hispanics are nearly, if not already, the majority in Cali. Texas and other south western states are a close second.

Many a conservative economists judge the net effect of illegal immigration on our economy to be relatively neutral to slightly negative. Although frankly, I'm not sure how accurate these figures could possibly be considering that economics is a relative psuedo science (I studied economics in school). I imagine the net effect of the work output by illegal immigrants is greater to the overall American economy is far greater than credit is given. And since normal measurements are nearly impossible for this group, an actually accurate number might never be known.

Basically illegal immigrants are a ultra low wage work force with absolutely no rights. They can't vote, they can't sue, they get paid next to nothing, they have no health care benefits other than emergency room services. If you live in Cali/Texas/Az/NM and increasingly further north and eastward they touch every part of your life. From the restaurant you sit in to the food you eat. The produce that is so cheap and plentiful. The beef steak you cut into. The wood in the frame of your house. The frame itself, the cement, the grading that moved the dirt to make your house pad. The freshly mown lawn you walk to the leather dog collar you keep on your dog. They contribute to everything whether you like it or not.


Just so you know, Texas is the only state in America where whites are not the majority. And yes, Hispanics are the new majority there with something like ~40% hispanics...

Terry S

Terry S
04-13-2006, 08:41 AM
And another thing...

Immigrants, illegal or not, have and will continue to be the primary thing that keeps America on top of the world. Compare the population growth rates of first world countries like Japan, Western Europe and the US. What do Japan and Europe have in common that the US does not? Their populations are shrinking at alarming rates. They are not producing the workers of tomorrow, the tax earners, the children of the future that will generate the tax revenue to support their grand parents into retirement.

It makes the news in Italy and Japan that their birth rates are in the 1.4-1.7 range.

As has clearly been shown, once a nation becomes first world, its population growth slows down and stops and often begins to shrink. Except for America.

America has always had an open door policy. Immigrants have always come here and within a few generations become "American" in the eyes of larger America. While certain population groups in America have stabilized out and are not growing, it is our immigration policy that keeps our population growing.

See in Japan or Italy or Finland, if you're from somalia and born 10 generations into italy, you'll never really be Italian in the eyes of Italians. ITs the reason why those kids whose great grand parents from Morroco, third generation born in France, will never get jobs that the "real" french can get. B/c they have the wrong last name. B/c their skin is the wrong shade.

Its the reason that even if those countries did open their doors for immigration, their societies would never be able to handle it. Their homogoneous cultures that. tend to be xenophobic and reject outsiders

Now if you look at American history, you'll see that what is happening now to Hispanics is the same thing that has happened to every immigrant group throughout American history. What you hear the conservative talk show hosts speaking of today is the same rhetoric that has been used to attack every immigrant group throughout the history of this country. They are a drain on our economy, they overwhelm the system. Then they always tie it to some anecdotal evidence of some thing they heard from a friend or some incident that happened to them. Actually, its quite brillant the methods they use (conservative and liberal) to convince their audiences.

Go back in time. The skin shades might get lighter, but the blame game is still the same. There were the Irish that faced incredible discrimination. The Italians. The Eastern Europeans (poles and what not). African Americans, who at one point were immigrants and some of whom are immigrants today. The Chinese in the 1800's and the Chinese today. Now its the Hispanics turn.

Did you know the fourth largest broadcasting network in the US is in Spanish? I don't understand Spanish, but I watch the channel b/c the female newscasters are muy caliente.

Did you know that real estate developers are now developing multi-generational houses as tends to occur in HIspanic and Asian families? If you look at the Forbes list, how many of those are real estate tycoons... Thats right, most of them. Think they've figured something out that you might not have? They realize that these "hordes" of people are going to need houses, are going to make money, are going to need to spend that money. Their kids will make more money, according to historical trends and those kids will need to be catered to.

This is not your fathers planet, the world is changing. Everyday it gets smaller. The more people we have on our side from different places the better...


There's a good reason why America isn't suffering the effects of population decline like those other countries: Socialism & we still have room to grow.

Terry S

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 09:04 AM
America has always had an open door policy. Immigrants have always come here and within a few generations become "American" in the eyes of larger America. While certain population groups in America have stabilized out and are not growing, it is our immigration policy that keeps our population growing.



I can't even begin to handle the number of assumptions, fallacies and incorrect assertions in that book you wrote above, I am sure you think your educated and that you “get" it but it sounds a lot like liberal American whiney crap coming out of someone who has not the experience or the historical perspective to accurately and truthfully examine the situation.

But I'll hit a couple:
Current immigration- border hopping illegals are not the same as the people who were mistreated at Ellis Island and other entry points to the US decades ago, do not compare the two you do the former a dis-service.

Assertions about US being only growing country- False UK has an open door policy on immigration and racially the climate is less adversarial than the US, take a look at where its gotten them.

France-Italy etal in Europe, it’s not their name that keeps them from jobs it’s their ungracious uneducated hoodlum nature. Immigrants have always been a part of Europe and always will be all that they ask is that you learn the language and understand the culture, you want an example my dad is British speaks French with a British accent, he rose to the CFO of the largest French oilfield services company. Many examples can be found of others in other countries the Pieds Noir aren't liked because of how they act not who they are.

"It’s the reason that even if those countries did open their doors for immigration, their societies would never be able to handle it. Their homogeneous cultures that. Tend to be xenophobic and reject outsiders” my brain hurts trying to digest this, pick up a book and read about Europe.

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 12:12 PM
Lord, you're funny. UK is not Europe, retard. I'm sure your British dad would be able to correct you on that one. Look to your US history books. The same garbage being spouted today is the same garbage you spout. Ever heard of the Chinese exclusion act? Ever heard of the Japanese American Internment?

Did you not observe all the riots in France where they burned cars every night? Did you not read about the underlying causes. Maybe you should pickup a book. A magazine. Heres a recent CNN survey of the french where 1/3 of the respondents in a FACE TO FACE poll admitted to being racist. The underlying problem there is that they do have minorities, only problem is they don't get integtrated into society. So they're stuck at the bottom scraping along as best they can.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/21/french.racists.reut/index.html

Then the larger majority castigates them all as lazy criminals that do nothing but drain community resources all day long.

I've been to Europe about a dozen times. I have friends who live there. Take a country like Finland. A population of a little over 5 million people with a very distinct language, culture and look to the people. They take in Somalian refugees and have children born in Finland. But by their own accounts, they'll never be Finnish, even though they speak the language flawlessly. Look to Sweden where they actually got in a bit of trouble for having a party after the deportation of some immigrants.

Don't get me wrong, Asia is just as bad, if not worse. I was in Korea with one of my best friends who is black. Trying to catch a cab there was worse than trying to catch a cab in NYC. Look to Japan. Japan has a highly homogenous culture. There are Korean-Japanese that have been living there for generations and are still considered second class citizens and have difficulties if they retain the Korean surnames.

My point here is that the US is a multicultural society, more so than Western Europe or Asia. We are a country of immigrants. You perceive this latest group of immigrants as different than those before. I say that if you'd been born a hundred years ago, you'd perceive the latest group of immigrants in the same way.

These are some interesting cartoons at the time of the great potatoe famine. Look to the second half for the US ones.

http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html

Heres an article on immigration and population growth, a short one.

http://www.newswire.co.nz/main/viewstory.aspx?storyid=310863&catid=35

I do not assert for a second that the US is the only growing country. There are a plethora of countries out there that grow at a significantly faster rate than the US.

Here is a simple lesson in economics. There is this thing that allows governments to run called a tax base. The tax base is revenue generated by the people in that country. The tax base should look like a pyramid. The base, the young people, support the levels above them because there are more of them. The young people work jobs and go out and by things, start families, by Evos.

In Europe and in Japan they will soon have an inverted pyramid. Right now its more like a square. There are far fewer people entering the work force and way more people retiring. This means that the governments of those countries will spend more money than revenue they would generate from taxing the incoming people. This means one of two things. One, massive government cutbacks. Yeah right, in those socialist countries? Look at france, they have riots when they try to change the job law for youths, can you imagine what they'd do if they cut back an old ladies pension?

The second thing this could mean is that the government spend until they collapse. This is the likely scenario given the climate in those countries.

So either the people in those countries start having more babies, or they're going to need people to come into their work force and start making money.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM FOR A REASON.

Finally, your characterization of me as a liberal shows your obvious level of intelligence. I'm a liberal conservative, a conservative liberal. I don't spew party bs on either side. The democrats are idiots right now with no clear leadership or direction. Come on, John Kerry is the best they could come up with? The republicans have been brillant in their control of the political spectrum, but as we've seen happen to the democrats in the past, their past sins are coming to haunt them. Yes I own a handgun that I love to shoot. No I dont listen to Limbaugh or whoever the flavor of the month is.

You know what they say about assumptions.

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 01:29 PM
GO check the map, not only is my father British so is my mother and so am I carry a European passport, England is in places swim able from France. England used to own half of France and the French and Romans are the only two to ever invade England. Your right though it is not in Europe, neither is Ireland, or maybe even those Scandinavian courtiers you keep referencing since well there in Scandinavia? I lived in Belgium, France, the UK and half the us, I am sure the learned you up good at school here in the states but for those of us who actually got an education, and lived in Europe your geographic assertion boardes on the asinine.

I am Glad you have been to Europe on vacation I have LIVED there and been part of the actual social fabric, I speak the language, not to diminish your time there but certainly one must give more credence to those who have physically experienced life as an immigrant in these nations.

As for your assertion about the multiculturality of the US vs Europe, there are multiple nations, ethnicities, languages and religions in Europe likely many more than here and packed into a much smaller land mass, would that not make the continent as a whole more multi-cultural?

I thank you for your attempt at economics but with a degree in that and politics I don’t need your oversimplifications I understand both statistics and their economic implications very well, its clear from your explanation you have some more CNN/money reading to do as that appears to be your source, I would also suggest a new source for news and understanding of Europe perhaps the Economist would be a good one, certainly more well researched and grounded than those you quoted.


My characterization of you had nothing to do with party politics using a definition framed in economics and academic political meaning not one not framed in terms of CNN and Fox News you'll better be able to address this discussion. Your grasp of the population statistics and loose implications of them aren’t bad but you don’t fully look at the numbers especially in places like France, Germany and the UK where immigration numbers and population growth is very different from that of Italy.

As for the original debate on immigration I suggest that it is you who go back in time, those us immigrations you spoke of were legal and invited by the government you can argue the latter here but not the fact we are talking about illegal immigration. Also you continue to harp on Europe and its closed door immigration policy is this how 20% of the French population became Muslim of foreign descent or the England has become almost a nation of former colonials, no body goes to Italy because the economy there stinks and they have had 50 governments in 60 years it’s a mess, there no opportunity or social well fare for immigrants there.

There are certainly benefits to immigrants even illegal ones but this is not what we have seen in the past and 20 years from now if we legalize these immigrants we will have another boat load to deal with, and we will slowly see the us go the way of western Europe I am convinced of this that is why I retain my UK citizenship so that when that day comes I can leave for Canada or Australia.

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 01:30 PM
now I am done discussing this with a high school kid who has been on a couple vacations.

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 01:52 PM
I don't think you ever got started. High School, lol, maybe 20 years ago. You should get your immigrant british accent french speaking oil executive daddy to get you an account at Amazon. I can recommend a reading list if it helps.

Chris in SD
04-13-2006, 02:00 PM
I'd like to know where a name-calling n00b gets off having exactly ZERO credibility... Once you've posted a few things, made your intellect (or lack thereof) known, then you can start calling people names. If you want to challenge someone's opinion, that's one thing. To call names, demean someone's heritage, etc. is another thing altogether.

And you can start telling me to go buy a book, read, etc., but unfortunately for you, I live what most of you read about. I see this crap firsthand all over the world. So I will stick by my earlier statement and implore all illegal aliens of whatever nationality to GO THE FUCK BACK!

Cheers. ;)

Terry S
04-13-2006, 02:05 PM
I'd like to know where a name-calling n00b gets off having exactly ZERO credibility... Once you've posted a few things, made your intellect (or lack thereof) known, then you can start calling people names. If you want to challenge someone's opinion, that's one thing. To call names, demean someone's heritage, etc. is another thing altogether.

And you can start telling me to go buy a book, read, etc., but unfortunately for you, I live what most of you read about. I see this crap firsthand all over the world. So I will stick by my earlier statement and implore all illegal aliens of whatever nationality to GO THE FUCK BACK!

Cheers. ;)


Chris FTW.

Terry S

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 02:13 PM
Ahh so typical. Inability to argue on logic, attack the post count. Brillant. Perhaps I don't have an "ESTABLISHED" reputation on Socalevo, but then again, one doesn't win arguments by reputation. You read what I wrote and you form your own arguments, bring your own facts to the table and then we'll discuss.

Incidentally, it was your evom guru who threw the first stones.

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 02:16 PM
I don't think you ever got started. High School, lol, maybe 20 years ago. You should get your immigrant british accent french speaking oil executive daddy to get you an account at Amazon. I can recommend a reading list if it helps.


Yes you seem quite bright, well thought out retort based in fact, logic, and first hand knowledge I am clearly over matched, glad I am done with you.

Chris in SD
04-13-2006, 02:20 PM
Ahh so typical.* Inability to argue on logic, attack the post count.* Brillant.* Perhaps I don't have an "ESTABLISHED" reputation on Socalevo, but then again, one doesn't win arguments by reputation.* You read what I wrote and you form your own arguments, bring your own facts to the table and then we'll discuss.

Incidentally, it was your evom guru who threw the first stones.


Ahh, that's it, ignore my post. *Typical troll behavior... By stating that I don't know you, I don't know your views on things, etc., I can't formulate the same opinion, reaction, etc. that I would for someone who's been on the board for a while. *Is that hard to understand?

And your argument about economics, the willingness of the immigrants to do that "type" of work, the fact that even if I don't like it, they touch everything, ad nauseum is pretty stale. *It's the usual response of sympathetics and apologists for mass ignorance of a nation's sovereignty. *There is plenty of evidence pointing to these countries encouraging their people to migrate into the US and "retake" their land. *What a crock.... *

Finally, what really chaps my hide is when these pieces of shit demand that we give them voting rights, medical care, bilingual (or Spanish-only) education, etc. then claim that they shouldn't have to pay taxes or apply for citizenship. *You can't tener su pastel y comerlo tambien... Get it?

Chris in SD
04-13-2006, 02:21 PM
Terry - what is FTW?

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 02:24 PM
Finally, what really chaps my hide is when these pieces of shit demand that we give them voting rights, medical care, bilingual (or Spanish-only) education, etc. then claim that they shouldn't have to pay taxes or apply for citizenship. You can't tener su pastel y comerlo tambien... Get it?


Exactly- thats why europe is such a shit hole now thats be over run with immigrants becuase they get all that crap there.

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 02:24 PM
for the win...

Chris in SD
04-13-2006, 02:26 PM
for the win...


Thanks O0

yooyooyoo
04-13-2006, 02:31 PM
Finally, what really chaps my hide is when these pieces of shit demand that we give them voting rights, medical care, bilingual (or Spanish-only) education, etc. then claim that they shouldn't have to pay taxes or apply for citizenship. You can't tener su pastel y comerlo tambien... Get it?


Exactly- thats why europe is such a shit hole now thats be over run with immigrants becuase they get all that crap there.


Europe is not doing well because they are socialist. If all the immigrants were deported from western europe, they would still have those problems. Look at the northern countries with their "from the cradle to the grave" philosophy. You're just scape goating the immigrants... again...

Absinthe
04-13-2006, 02:50 PM
Not true some of the most socialist countries in Eruope have the highest standard of living, besides how can i scapegoat immigrants I was and still am one, I just wasnt one of the lazy ones living off the governement demanding jobs and housing, and rioting becuase people in my host nation didnt like the fact I wasnt happy to be there and wanted everything to be like home.

Now considering that I have lived in 4 countries, worked on two continents, speak two languages, emigrated 4 times, carried three citizenships in my life, and current manage a 100 million dollar product for a multibillion dollar company that spans the US, Europe, and Japan who do you think is perhaps more versed to discuss this me or the dude who went there on vacation and watches CNN?

Or perhaps life experience isnt good enough for you to that end I have two degrees from a a well reputed US school one in politics the other in Economics...give it up.

gofaster87
04-13-2006, 03:41 PM
For you anti illegal immigrant folks that hate this shit as much as I do, wanted to let you know Nevada is cracking down on illegals and just had a huge bust on the strip. Lets just say the rooms dont get cleaned as quickly. Thank god for this beautiful Republican state, fuck the Cali liberals

Macky
04-13-2006, 03:47 PM
For you anti illegal immigrant folks that hate this shit as much as I do, wanted to let you know Nevada is cracking down on illegals and just had a huge bust on the strip. Lets just say the rooms dont get cleaned as quickly. Thank god for this beautiful Republican state, fuck the Cali liberals


Here! Here!

Thero
04-13-2006, 03:49 PM
For you anti illegal immigrant folks that hate this shit as much as I do, wanted to let you know Nevada is cracking down on illegals and just had a huge bust on the strip. Lets just say the rooms dont get cleaned as quickly. Thank god for this beautiful Republican state, fuck the Cali liberals


O0 For a state doing something about it Hell I'll give em O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0

Chris in SD
04-13-2006, 05:40 PM
You're just scape goating the immigrants... again...


This is the whole point: I don't think there is ANYONE on this site who is opposed to LEGAL immigration into or out of this country. The issue is with ILLEGAL immigrants. They are leeches on our social services, on our infrastructure (don't get me started about percentages of illegals that commit crimes), etc. The reason my posts are not 20 paragraphs long is simple - this is not a complicated issue. And if you really want me to go "FTW", I haven't even brought up the non-Latino illegal immigrants (read Arabs) coming through the southern border.

WavMixer
07-10-2006, 02:10 PM
Immigration is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with immigration. My wife's family were immigrants.
What is wrong is Illegal immigration.

There are laws that are in place for a reason. In the case of the United States, the U.S. had an "open door" policy on immigration for many years. That is, in the earliest years of American history, all that was necessary to become a citizen was to, well, arrive to the shores of the United States.

As the years went by, as the government grew and levels of bureaucracy increased, so did the regulations. There were, in the earliest years waves of immigrants to the United States from England, Ireland, Italy and Eastern Europe. Really, from all over the world. These people took and worked the worst jobs. They knew that they had it better than they had in the countries from which they came. In coming to the United States, they were seeking a new life and they fully committed themselves in becoming Americans. Returning "home" was no option.

These people worked hard, they worked the worst jobs while facing the terrible working conditions and they faced discrimination and racism but they were determined to make a life for themselves in the United States. In their effort to become "real Americans", they learned English, they learned the history of their adopted land and they, for the most part, invested their lives, their energy and their dreams in THIS country.

However, as the years went by, more and more people immigrated to the United States. In fact, the U.S. became "the" destination of choice for many. And they came in numbers that, quite frankly, regulations had to be imposed. Why impose immigration restrictions? That's a simple question to answer...even for a country as large as the United States, there are limits to the numbers of people that can be assimulated without straining the employment situation, the educational system and the infrastructure. This is why, as the years went on, quotas were imposed. Certain requirements for citizenship were instituted (health, criminal record checks, education and skills), even then, an immigration lottery was instituted to allow "random" access to immigration.

For the most part, this system has served the United States very well. Millions upon millions of immigrants from all over the world came to America seeking a dream, often hoping to escape an existance that could only be compared to a nightmare in their country of origin. These people learned English, learned American History and they worked hard in an effort to become "real Americans".

Somehow, this American Dream became distorted. People from Mexico had been among the most ardent and hardest working among the immigrant population until, in recent years, a new form of immigrant developed....the economic refugee...the illegal immigrant.


The illegal immigrant has no desire to actually become citizens. They illegally enter the country for many of the same reasons as legal immigrants do but they chose not to follow the rules. They, for the most part do not seek to become legal citizens of the U.S. Instead, they seek all of the rights of citizenship without actually becoming citizens, it would seem.

But who could really blame these people for wanting to leave their particular countries.....Mexico and South America. These are countries with repressive regimes that promise little or no opportunity. By coming to the U.S. they can earn in a few months what would have taken them years to acquire. Nevertheless, they are not following the rules of the nation in which they seek to work. I find it odd that they are so organized and so determined to obtain rights....by force, if necessary when they could very well have used that same organization, that same force, to demand rights in their country of origin. They could have used their "new found" political clout in Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, etc to make the government responsive to their needs. They could have made their own countries, their own governments' better. Instead they seek to tear down the dream of others. A dream that they don't share.....to live and work in a country of law.

Hiding behind a shield of racism, they flaunt the laws of the U.S. and if anyone opposes them, they are racists. If they are denied free access to education....they are racists. If they are refused drivers licenses or jobs or even welfare, they are racists. And the politicians shrink from being branded as racists instead of confronting these illegals for what they are....illegal. Out of fear of being branded racists, the government has, for too long, turned a blind eye to the problem...instead, they have accepted the benefits of cheap labor, a workforce willing to work the most menial of jobs and to work in the most intolerable of conditions (at least by American Standards). But being called a racist or not, it does not change the fact that these people are ILLEGAL immigrants.

If these people are granted a general amnesty, it will only encourage the illegals to continue to pour into the country unabated with the hope of another "general amnesty" in the future. Frankly, it must be stopped. The illegals must be treated as such -- illegal. Furthermore, those who hire illegals are guilty of breaking the law themselves. By hiring people who do not contribute to the social security system, by not providing the proper work environment or legal working hours and wages, the employers of illegals must also face punishment.

But the problem won't go away simply by arresting everyone and it certainly won't be stopped by a wall. What will work is to force nations such as Mexico, Central and South American countries to be responsive to the needs of their people. If the people of those countries cannot force their own governments to respond to the needs of their people then the U.S. through sanctions and economic pressure must.

All the talk of a wall has been in reference to the Southern border of the U.S. Most of the illegal immigrants enter the U.S. through this area. Why isn't there a wall between the U.S. and Canada? Could it be because Canada is a country of laws? Could it be that Canada is country that is responsive to the will of it's people. Even though the economy of Canada has often paled to that of the U.S., Canadians have remained in their own country because they were committed to making their own country better. And they have done so through legal means, through legislative means and they have done so peacefully.

May 1st is not a day of Immigrant protest...it is a day of ILLEGAL protest. These people are not citizens of the U.S. They have no voice in the U.S. nor do they have the rights of an American to do so. Let them protest in their own county...let them return to Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. to work, protest and demand to make their own countries a place where they can live and work with justice & equality.

blkside
07-10-2006, 02:20 PM
It could be because canada is pretty as hell have free health care...lol and that there is no saying "you fool me once.......................shame on me .................................................. ...............you wont fool me again."

Chris in SD
07-10-2006, 03:19 PM
Wow... "War and Peace" by Wavmixer to revive one of my favorite threads... Nice!

I still stick by my original post.

WavMixer
07-11-2006, 11:44 AM
Wow... "War and Peace" by Wavmixer to revive one of my favorite threads...* Nice!

I still stick by my original post.
Regurgapost O0