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Terry S
04-21-2006, 08:41 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192544,00.html

The Greenhouse Myth

Thursday, April 20, 2006
By Steven Milloy

Al Gore’s global warming documentary hits theaters on May 28. Entitled, “An Inconvenient Truth,” the film purports to make the case for concern over manmade emissions of greenhouse gases.

Meanwhile at www.JunkScience.com (http://www.JunkScience.com) , we’ve produced “The Real Inconvenient Truth” (http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/) – debunking two key myths of climate alarmism, including that the Earth’s atmosphere acts like a greenhouse and that reducing carbon dioxide (CO2) emission will avert significant temperature change.

The notion that our atmosphere acts like a greenhouse – that is, so-called atmospheric “greenhouse gases,” like water vapor and CO2, “trap” incoming solar radiation to warm the atmosphere – is wrong. Not only doesn’t the atmosphere work that way, greenhouses don’t either.

Greenhouses work by physically blocking heat transfer (by convection) from inside to outside – the same effect that heats the inside of your car when it’s parked in the sun on a hot day. Opening the doors and windows allows air currents to flow and the heat to dissipate.

But neither the atmosphere nor “greenhouse gases” block convection, so there is no literal atmospheric “greenhouse effect.”

Since “greenhouse effect” terminology has long been used to refer to the natural warming of our atmosphere to a habitable level, we’ll stick with that incorrect, but commonly-used, terminology for ease of discussion. So how does the “greenhouse effect” actually work?

Atmospheric flows of energy are complex, but a simplified explanation – depicted in this graphic:

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/Radiation_Budget.gif

– is as follows.

Incoming solar radiation is partly absorbed by the Earth’s surface, partly absorbed by various atmospheric gases (particularly oxygen and ozone) and partly reflected back out to space. Solar radiation isn’t significantly absorbed by greenhouse gases in the lower atmosphere and so doesn’t directly cause the greenhouse effect.

For our purposes, the greenhouse effect is largely caused by energy emitted by the Earth’s surface, most of which is subsequently absorbed by greenhouse gases and clouds. Very simply expressed, the greenhouse gases and clouds transform that absorbed energy into heat that warms the lower atmosphere and into energy that is radiated back to space and also back to the Earth’s surface.

These radiative processes, if they acted alone, would warm the Earth’s atmosphere to about 77 degrees Centigrade – much warmer than the 15 degrees Centigrade the Earth actually is. Fortunately, other atmospheric processes – including updrafts and circulation carrying heat upwards and toward the poles – facilitate energy escape into space so that our atmosphere cools to around 15 degrees Centigrade.

But our focus here is CO2’s role in greenhouse warming – that’s what Al Gore wants us to fret.

Putting aside the cooling convection and circulation processes mentioned above, the limiting factor with respect to greenhouse warming isn’t the quantity of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere; it’s the energy emitted by the Earth’s surface.

As illustrated in this graphic: http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/absorbspec.gif

different greenhouse gases absorb different wavelengths of energy emitted by the Earth. The fact that only a limited amount of the Earth’s emitted energy is available for absorption by CO2 and that CO2 has to compete with water vapor and clouds for that energy, results in a crucial (but little publicized) relationship between CO2 and atmospheric warming.

As illustrated in this graphic: http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/co2greenhouse-X4.png

the relationship between CO2 and temperature is logarithmic in nature – that is, as CO2 increases in the atmosphere, it absorbs less and less additional energy to produce correspondingly less and less additional warming. At some point, adding more CO2 to the atmosphere doesn’t significantly change atmospheric temperature.

To analogize, consider a window with many shades, each blocking half the incoming light. As successive shades are pulled, the transmitted light is halved and the effect of each shade is diminished. Eventually, there’s no additional effect because previous shades have already absorbed the light to all but a vanishing degree. As more shades won’t block more light, more CO2 won’t cause significantly more warming.

In fact, there’s been more than enough greenhouse gas in the atmosphere to cause much greater warming than actually occurs since long before humans discovered fire.

“The Real Inconvenient Truth” contains interactive CO2-Greenhouse calculators so you can get a feel for the all-important logarithmic CO2-temperature relationship.

So what's the point at which more CO2 doesn’t cause more warming? Are we near it? The commonly-used range of estimates of CO2’s impact on global temperature should help put any worry into perspective.

As illustrated by this graphic: http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/co2greenhouse-X2.png

a doubling of atmospheric CO2 from pre-Industrial Revolution days (280 parts per million to 560 ppm), might increase global temperature from between 0.5 degrees Centigrade to 1.5 degrees Centigrade – that is, not much.

The current atmospheric CO2 level is about 380 ppm and the estimated temperature increase since 1880 (when regular temperature recordkeeping began) is estimated to be about 0.60 degrees Centigrade.

Since at least half of this temperature increase pre-dated 1950 – prior to any significant increase in atmospheric CO2 levels – we can estimate that the 30 percent increase in atmospheric CO2 since the Industrial Revolution is associated with a temperature increase of about 0.30 degrees Centigrade. This supports the idea that doubling atmospheric CO2 from pre-Industrial Revolution levels would cause less than a one degree Centigrade increase – and we’re not close to such a doubling.

Since this small variation in global temperature is well within the historical climate record, panic hardly seems warranted.

So where does all the fuss about manmade CO2 and global warming come from? Not from actual temperature measurements and greenhouse physics – rather it comes from manmade computer models relying on myriad assumptions and guesswork. Many models incorporate hypothesized “positive feedbacks” in the climate system, which tend to amplify model predictions. But no model has been validated against the historical temperature record. So they don’t “radiate” much confidence when it comes to forecasting temperatures.

In preparation for Al Gore’s movie, the global warming lobby has purchased lots of newspaper and TV space for an alarmist advertising blitz during May. It’s comforting to know that all that hot air won’t be significantly warming the planet.

Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com, CSRWatch.com. He is a junk science expert, an advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

gen4k20a2
04-21-2006, 08:47 AM
ok i find it a bit wierd they are talking about CO2 but its CO (carbon monoxide) which it the chemical in question. anyone with a brain knows CO2 i needed for life. I just skimmed so maybe i missed it but id like a break down of the effects of CO. I could be wrong but its CO the biproduct of exhaust emissions and the basic polluting chemical of burned petroleum based products? I dunno someone want to help me out here or am i seeing this article a bit off

Terry S
04-21-2006, 09:07 AM
ok i find it a bit wierd they are talking about CO2 but its CO (carbon monoxide) which it the chemical in question. anyone with a brain knows CO2 i needed for life. I just skimmed so maybe i missed it but id like a break down of the effects of CO. I could be wrong but its CO the biproduct of exhaust emissions and the basic polluting chemical of burned petroleum based products? I dunno someone want to help me out here or am i seeing this article a bit off


CO2 is the big boy of "greenhouse gases". Here's a clip from the pro-global-warming-idea people @ stopglobalwarming.com:

--- begin clip ---

What is Global Warming?

The Earth as an ecosystem is changing, attributable in great part to the effects of globalization and man. More carbon dioxide is now in the atmosphere than has been in the past 650,000 years. This carbon stays in the atmosphere, acts like a warm blanket, and holds in the heat — hence the name ‘global warming.’

The reason we exist on this planet is because the earth naturally traps just enough heat in the atmosphere to keep the temperature within a very narrow range - this creates the conditions that give us breathable air, clean water, and the weather we depend on to survive. Human beings have begun to tip that balance. We've overloaded the atmosphere with heat-trapping gasses from our cars and factories and power plants. If we don't start fixing the problem now, we’re in for devastating changes to our environment. We will experience extreme temperatures, rises in sea levels, and storms of unimaginable destructive fury. Recently, alarming events that are consistent with scientific predictions about the effects of climate change have become more and more commonplace.

--- end clip ---

Terry S

gen4k20a2
04-21-2006, 09:26 AM
ok looked it up...

Polluting effect
Carbon monoxide from automobile and industrial emissions is a dangerous pollutant that may contribute to the greenhouse effect and global warming. In urban areas carbon monoxide, along with aldehydes, reacts photochemically to produce peroxy radicals. Peroxy radicals react with nitrogen oxide to increase the ratio of NO2 to NO, which reduces the quantity of NO that is available to react with ozone. Carbon monoxide is also a constituent of tobacco smoke.


Greenhouse effect is still a theory....most likely BS just as the other 70% of things in the world today

Terry S
04-21-2006, 09:37 AM
ok looked it up...

Polluting effect
Carbon monoxide from automobile and industrial emissions is a dangerous pollutant that may contribute to the greenhouse effect and global warming. In urban areas carbon monoxide, along with aldehydes, reacts photochemically to produce peroxy radicals. Peroxy radicals react with nitrogen oxide to increase the ratio of NO2 to NO, which reduces the quantity of NO that is available to react with ozone. Carbon monoxide is also a constituent of tobacco smoke.


Greenhouse effect is still a theory....most likely BS just as the other 70% of things in the world today



Exactly. Carbon Monoxide is more of a smog contributor instead of a greenhouse gas contributor... This article is just another attempt at educating the public against hyped up scare tactics.

Terry S

Absinthe
04-21-2006, 04:57 PM
Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.

kcross
04-21-2006, 06:02 PM
the big problem with the global warming theory is that it only has about 150 years of "accurate" weather data from which to make predictions... that really amounts to next to nothing. thats more or less like finding one dinosaur bone and just guessing at what the rest of it would look like as best you can.

909Evo
04-21-2006, 09:26 PM
Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.


Exactly. It may in fact not be OUR fault that the temperature is rising. But it is a FACT that it is risisng. Some parts of alaska and canada have temperatures as much as 15 degree's higher than when previously observed over the past fifty years. The pacific ocean has risen along the coasts by about 2-3 degrees. And many many MANY sea creatures are within 1-2 degrees of a safe operating range. If the temperature's in the pacific rise at the current rate then a vast majority of life on the coastal regions could stop within the next 10 years.

Luckily the previous 10 years have shown a significant decrease in the rate of warming. Although we still are not doing enough, we are doing something, and it is showing.

Highrever
04-22-2006, 03:33 PM
I love pulling up next to people with their windows down in my Challenger, reeking of 87 Arco with no cats....Screw the environment :)

Terry S
04-24-2006, 09:18 AM
Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.


Green house/global warming is a theory, not an observable fact. The "patern of warming" is within the margin of error & within the natural warming margin.





Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.


Exactly. It may in fact not be OUR fault that the temperature is rising. But it is a FACT that it is risisng. Some parts of alaska and canada have temperatures as much as 15 degree's higher than when previously observed over the past fifty years. The pacific ocean has risen along the coasts by about 2-3 degrees. And many many MANY sea creatures are within 1-2 degrees of a safe operating range. If the temperature's in the pacific rise at the current rate then a vast majority of life on the coastal regions could stop within the next 10 years.

Luckily the previous 10 years have shown a significant decrease in the rate of warming. Although we still are not doing enough, we are doing something, and it is showing.


I dont think you quite read the article i posted...

Terry S

Absinthe
04-24-2006, 03:02 PM
Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.


Green house/global warming is a theory, not an observable fact. The "patern of warming" is within the margin of error & within the natural warming margin.





Green house/global warming is not a theory it is an observable fact, it is however hotly debated as to whether the chief cause is natural and cyclical or if the current observed phenomena if man made.


Exactly. It may in fact not be OUR fault that the temperature is rising. But it is a FACT that it is risisng. Some parts of alaska and canada have temperatures as much as 15 degree's higher than when previously observed over the past fifty years. The pacific ocean has risen along the coasts by about 2-3 degrees. And many many MANY sea creatures are within 1-2 degrees of a safe operating range. If the temperature's in the pacific rise at the current rate then a vast majority of life on the coastal regions could stop within the next 10 years.

Luckily the previous 10 years have shown a significant decrease in the rate of warming. Although we still are not doing enough, we are doing something, and it is showing.


I dont think you quite read the article i posted...

Terry S


Terry I suppose I should have been more clear, the part of the theory that is up for debate is not:
a.) the earth getting warmer or
b.) that green house gasses are contributing to this.

the debate is are these two things part of a natural cycle OR are they man made, many people and much of the data shows that this could indeed be natural others of course believe its our fault.

Terry S
04-24-2006, 03:47 PM
Terry I suppose I should have been more clear, the part of the theory that is up for debate is not:
a.) the earth getting warmer or
b.) that green house gasses are contributing to this.

the debate is are these two things part of a natural cycle OR are they man made, many people and much of the data shows that this could indeed be natural others of course believe its our fault.


Yea, I get you now. I think I was taking your comments out of context as well.

Yes the earth it is generally believable that the earth is getting warmer & that "greenhouse gasses" contribute to this, but again, the amount that the earth is warming (~.06C since 1880) and how much its contributing is whats up for debate. Noone honestly has enough data or accurate enough computer models to even 50% predict what has happened, what is going on now, or what will happen in the future. However, I definitly support the desire to figure it out. The more real, honest scientific research we have, the better we all are. The catch is to find realistic & unbiased studies/results.

Terry S