TECH ARTICLE: 16g turbos and all its variants (20g)

[trinydex]

i will say this for the last time as this has GOT to be the definitive thread.

TME is the turbo that came on the evo 6.5 tme. it has titanium aluminide turbine wheel. it has a 10.5 housing also. otheriwse the compressor is the same but revisions have been made to the newer turbine housings so this turbo is outdated at best.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20b01.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20b02.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20b03.jpg


WR also known as the fp white rabbit turbo. this is simply an evo 8 turbo (05) with a larger FIVE BLADED compressor wheel installed by forced performance.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c01.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c02.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c03.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c04.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c05.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20c06.jp g




THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 8 AND 9 TURBO.




both have 10.5 hot side. both have unaltered turbine wheels. both use the same chra, this means you can swap and mix and match these two turbo's parts to your heart's content (tme9 plug inserted here).

the cold side is the only difference. 9 cold side housing has a larger diffuser, this is the snail section, it's both longer and wider in diameter inside, this creates a faster boost up/boost production/boost response. as a result of the added length of the snail section also known as diffuser, the overall housing is larger. the exducer of the 9 turbo is larger to fill up the space inside of the 9 housing (see below for caveats). the inducer remains relatively the same size.

the reason for br moving to 9 housing is to remove all chances of surge on his and now fp's wheel, larger housing also allows more air through even though the wheel that the 20gs are using is based off the old 8 housing which would leave exducer diameters smaller!

small things that are different. the angling of the turbo oil lines is slightly off due to the 9 housing size. the angle of the coolant line is also a bit off. these two can be bent to fit. the cold side outlet pipe is much different and you can't bend this unit to fit it between the two turbos. so the outlet elbow pipe is the only thing you need from the install kit. everything else can be bent to fit.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/9%20turbo%20install%20kit.jpg

20g-8 or 20g8-6. this was a failure 6 bladed stock turbo that surged like shit. came as the first iteration of the failed turbochargers.com and buschur partner up.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20d01.jpg


20g-9-6. this is turbochargers.com's previous and fouled venture with br. it is less efficient than the 5 blade design. also not recommended for use with ti al internals. tc.com and it's distributors have however sold these with ti al internals. the ti al internals are not real genuine oem pieces but are copies of tme style ti al wheels.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%2001a.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%2002a.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%2003a.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%2004a.jp g


20g-9-5. this is the buschur and fp joint venture turbo. it has the wr style 5 bladed design. this turbo is not recommended for ti al internals.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_5blade.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/5blade2.jpg

TME9. now everyone pay attention cuz i'm really quite tired of explaining what this is and no one can get it straight. the tme 9 is the ENTIRE TME 6.5 HOT SIDE mated to THE ENTIRE EVO9 COLD SIDE. that said you can make this turbo several different ways. you can get a 9 turbo and put the tme6.5 ti/al TURBINE wheel in it. or you could piece together the two halves.? or you could buy every part seperately and put it together.

JDM 9RS turbo. this turbo is special, it comes with the equivalent of a 10.5 hot side (with internals, ti/al) and a 9 cold side with the addition of a magnesium 9 compressor wheel. early runs of the jdm 9rs turbo had mag wheel failures with increased boost pressures.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/mag%20turbo.jpg

this signifies that the tme9 is safe to run and will cause no surging or too-early-spool-up- issues. as the jdm 9rs turbo spools even faster with no ill effects. this also signifies a different way to piece together a tme9, basically taking a jdm 9rs turbo and replacing the mag wheel with an aluminum one.

forced performance evo green aka buschur racing 20gLT (large turbine) this turbo is basically a 20g9-5 with a larger turbine wheel made by forced performance.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e01.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e02.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e03.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%20its%20 variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e04.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e05.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e06.jp g

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_TECH%20ARTICLE%2016g%20turbos%20and%20all%2 0its%20variants%20%2820g%20and%20green%29%20e07.jp g

thread about evo green turbo aka 20glt
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&topic=25963.0



turbo dynamics is one of many uk companies which specialize in ball bearing cartridge 16g turbos. they have recently made a ball bearing 16g with the WR wheel.



http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&topic=32342.0

other uk shops doing ball bearing 16g turbos include essex turbo


and evo400

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/evo400%209%20turbo%20with%20restrictor.jpg

evo400 evo9 turbo with restrictor

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_evo400%20wrc%20turbo.jpg

evo400 wrc turbo

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/evo%20400ball%20bearing%20conversions.jpg

evo400 ball bearing conversion kit

the uk turbos suffer from huge price inflations due to limited production, high amount of requisite precision work and vat plus exchange rate hikes

[trinydex]

comparo page

http://homepage2.nifty.com/lancer/turbo.htm

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/16%20turbo%20site.jpg



http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=33433&highlight=TD05HRA


Got some of this info from a :mitsu: brochure. Some of this may have been posted here before but here goes:

Evolution 1
Turbo = TDO5H–16G-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Exhaust turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide


Evolution 2
Turbo = TDO5H–16G-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide


Evolution 3
Turbo = TD05H–16G6-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 4
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9T
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 5
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 6
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS/RS2)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 6 : Tommi Makinen Edition
Turbo = TD05RA-15GK2-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = Titanium alloy for both RS/RS2/GSR!
Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm (gsr) - 68mm(rs) wide


Evolution 7
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8
Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 7 GTA
Turbo = TD05-15GK2-9.0T
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.0
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm wide


Evolution 8
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR / USDM E8)
TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8
Turbine = USDM EVO 8 & JDM GSR =Inconel (steel alloy),
RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy.
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution MR aka "8.5"
GSR = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T or TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (Ti Alloy option)
RS = 6MT:TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T or 5MT:TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T

Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 or 9.8(RS-5speed)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


All Evo 4-8 Turbos are twin scroll designs meaning that the engines exhaust is divided into two channels (see first pic). As the engine exhausts in pulses.. its supposed to result in quicker spooling. From the Evo 4 onwards, the Turbo spins in the opposite direction, i.e. Anticlockwise (hence the R in the turbo name). The Titanium Alumnide alloy used in the RS/RS2 and some GSRS (factory option) has less inertia and thus spins up around 500 rpm sooner. These Titanium turbos can be indentified by the A in their name.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/watercooled%5B1%5D.jpg

note that there were revisions in the coolant passgages between the 7 and 8 turbos!!!

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/diagram1%5B1%5D.jpg

evo 8 9.8 housing diagram.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/cooling1%5B1%5D.jpg

how the chra is cooled.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/titan34.jpg


Inconel 600
Density = 8470 kg/m3,
Tensile strength = 95 ksi,
Yield strength 45 ksi

Titanium
Density = 4507 kg/m3,
tensile strength 130 ksi,
yield strength 120 ksi

tinanium alumnide specs to follow....

This is the GSR vs. RS turbo's weight:

obvious difference in weight between the ti/al wheel and the inconel wheel.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_62208.jpg

this is a picture of a 9.8 evo8 turbo on the left compared to a 10.5 turbo on the right. notice that the left has a dual flapper wastegate design and the 10.5 has a single flapper. please note that:

- 6.5 TME = 16g6 with Ti/Al internals and dual-flapper 10.5 cm^2 hotside
- USDM 03/04 VIII = 16g6 with dual-flapper 9.8 cm^2 hotside
- USDM 05 VIII - 16g6 with single-flapper 10.5 cm^2 hotside

also note that in japan the 9.8 was available in a single flapper but was a manufacturer's replacement item, it was never installed on any cars out of the factory.


http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/NTEVO8001_full.jpg

dual flapper

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/THEVOMR105004_full.jpg
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/THEVOMR105002_full.jpg

single flappers

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/mURI_temp_524d2f8d.jpg

twin scroll flange

various pictures:

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTU5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTU3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTYzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTU4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTYyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTY1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/i%3DwMjEyMTYwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%253D.jpg

Evolution 9
USDM & JDM = TD05HRA-16G6C-10.5T
Turbine: GSR / GT = Inconel alloy, RS = Titanium alloy
Compressor: GSR / GT = Aluminium, RS = Magnesium Alloy
(??) mm wide (to be verified.)

Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 (note: to be confirmed that RS 5MT has 10.5)

RS E9 turbo part number 1515A059 (approx cost 250,000 yen from Mitsi Japan). *Warning* There are reports of RS magnesium compressor wheel failing if boosted above stock boost.

More Evo 9 Turbo info:
... * New more efficient & larger Compressor preventing compressor surge
... * Better pump gas efficiency
... * Turbine Nozzle Area (cm2) = Large 10.5 Hotside (single flapper)
... * Improve actuator design

Side by side comparison E8 v E9 turbos (E9 is on the left and E8 on the right):

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/e9vse8turbocomparo0hq.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/evo9%20turbo%20new%20features.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_evo9%20turbo%20new%20features%20close.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_evo9%20turbo%20diffuser%20compare%201.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_evo9%20turbo%20diffuser%20compare%202.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_evo9%20turbo%20inducer%20compare.jpg

[atlvalet]

BTW,

That 9 on the left has the mag compressor wheel. You can tell by the color.

[leaveit2bevo]

Ive seen tests by many different places of the hybrid 20g turbos and all of them seem like they give the same numbers as stock 16g with more lag, unless your running 100+ octane then they seem to do better.

[GokuSSJ4]

in another words, you can not purchase a TME 9 and call it an OEM unit. It would be consider a hybrid, unless you purchase the RS IX turbo. The bad thing with the RS turbo is that they had " early runs of the jdm 9rs turbo had mag wheel failures with increased boost pressures." it seems that some shops still don't want to carry or deal with such thing. since due to this you can not run high amount of boost.

[leaveit2bevo]

ive been trying to search on forums about the mag turbos but havent found anything yet. The only thing i did find "The new titanium-magnesium turbo spools up more readily than the old titanium-aluminium unit also and the engine doesn't seem to run out of breath above 6500rpm. "

[earlyapex]

ive been trying to search on forums about the mag turbos but havent found anything yet. The only thing i did find "The new titanium-magnesium turbo spools up more readily than the old titanium-aluminium unit also and the engine doesn't seem to run out of breath above 6500rpm. "

Search on lancerregister.com then. ;)

can you post the link or copy and paste the information


http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=d2aae058b069c20765e89b3ad9725704&threadid=97279&highlight=mag+turbo

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=d2aae058b069c20765e89b3ad9725704&threadid=105960&highlight=mag+turbo

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=d2aae058b069c20765e89b3ad9725704&threadid=96093&highlight=mag+turbo

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=d2aae058b069c20765e89b3ad9725704&threadid=93739&highlight=mag+turbo

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=d2aae058b069c20765e89b3ad9725704&threadid=83361&highlight=mag+turbo

[turbolarry]

Does the 9 turbo flow more or is it just more efficient?

[trinydex]

in another words, you can not purchase a TME 9 and call it an OEM unit. It would be consider a hybrid, unless you purchase the RS IX turbo. The bad thing with the RS turbo is that they had " early runs of the jdm 9rs turbo had mag wheel failures with increased boost pressures." it seems that some shops still don't want to carry or deal with such thing. since due to this you can not run high amount of boost.

i never said that the tme9 was oem. but it IS MADE OF ALL OEM PARTS. that said ti's a better alternative to the jdm 9 because you take the mag failures out of the question.

[trinydex]

Does the 9 turbo flow more or is it just more efficient?
both, the larger exducer accounts for a lot of the increase flow, but the larger housing also adds to it. more efficient is also attributable to the larger housing.

[leaveit2bevo]

thanks for the links earlyapex, from reading those posts there is a new revised mag wheel out that should break from high boost. On the first link there seemed like a good diff in the TI/AL wheel and the MAG/TI turbos power on the dyno.

[trinydex]

i'm not sure i can recommend the tme9 anymore. apparently robert from fp has tested it and it's only good for 100rpms of spool :[.

this is upsetting to me as i was under the impression that a regular tme would spool around 600rpms faster... it's supposedly only about 200rpm (per scot) some say up to 300rpms faster. so as an official statement i can't say that the cost of a ti wheel is worth the extra spool up and transient response... but i'd still get one.

[GokuSSJ4]

i'm not sure i can recommend the tme9 anymore. apparently robert from fp has tested it and it's only good for 100rpms of spool :[.

this is upsetting to me as i was under the impression that a regular tme would spool around 600rpms faster... it's supposedly only about 200rpm (per scot) some say up to 300rpms faster. so as an official statement i can't say that the cost of a ti wheel is worth the extra spool up and transient response... but i'd still get one.

where are these results posted at ?
Also in order to obtain a TME internal the cost is near 300-400 extra .. is it worth it for the extra 100 rpms spool ?
Same thing was said about the tME 6.5 and at the end you couldn't really feel the difference in spool..*
Also do you think giving the same set up* (TME IX ) on a IX evo , will it achieve different results or perhaps might be the same thing ?

[trinydex]

well that's the thing, maybe i was misled by the shivnu crowd czu most of the tme data is with them. and they all claim it's so noticeabl etc.

i'm sure you know that robert from fp doesn't exactly surf the forums. this was through word of mouth.

and yes it is 400 bucks to add the wheel.... so is it worth it? most will say no.

[Dagul]

What about the transient response of the TME8/9? No one has touched on that yet. I was under the impression this was the selling point of the turbo...

[trinydex]

the transient response will be better but it won't be ball bearing like.

this thread is now a tech article, no more asinine posting... if you shit in it i will delete you.

btw current subscribers should check out the first two posts again. lots of "only socal" info there... enjoy the pics.

[trinydex]

bump so people can see the revisions. i need help finding pictures of the unpictured turbos. please help me.