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trinydex
06-06-2006, 03:07 PM
everyone should understand why brakes/brake squeek/squeal/squeel/make noise/are noisy

think about it like your brake pad is like a violin string, your rotor is like the bow. you're drawing the bow across the string and if there is room to shake then it'll make noise.

if you have air in your lines the squeek will be worse as there's a little more room or give for high amplitude oscillation which is what causes the noise.

what the installation grease does is tries to damp this vibrating out and also to minimize the spaces inbetween surfaces for vibrations to happen.Â*

brake dust makes this issue worse because now you've built up a lot of tiny violin strings and that just means there's more ways to squeek.

why race pads squeel regardless is because they're harder, things that are harder vibrate at a higher frequency and at that point you can't damp them out and it doesn't matter how rigid your setup is, they're gonna oscillate.


In the never ending quest to learn and assist learining in others I've looked for a good paper on brake pads.....

Many get VERY technical and have not enough basic info - but this one I like.

]

Of particular interest

Page 10 - a decription of what pads are generally made of and why.

Page 20-25 or so have some good high magnification pictures of contact plateaus and such.

And as the paper/research is based on understanding squeal - well there is information on that as well.

Things to keep in mind if you do read some of it..

He uses some organic pads in his test -
He uses a floating caliper design -
He is most interested in what cause squeal -

His tests verify/explain quite a few things we sort of know from experience.

Pads work better after break in...
Friction does increase during 1 stopping event after pressure and heat do their job
Once the conditions for squeal are met - it will continue to squeal until those conditions are 'unmet'.Â* Furthermore he finds the oscillation of the pad is where the noise comes from - so changing that resonant frequency somehow is the key to less squeal.Â* Greas can only do that temporarily - perhaps re-us eof your factory shim with or without your OEM pad shim - flip the shim around - modify it in some fashion.Â* That is what you should be looking at if squeal drives you nuts.Â* Changing the rotor surface would sure ly help - but may only be temporary if it reverts back to the noise conditions after wear.

[url]http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/Mikael%20Eriksson%20Thesis.pdf (http://www.angstrom.uu.se/materials/Tribomaterials/Research/Mikael%20Eriksson%20Thesis.pdf)

Racing Chick
06-06-2006, 03:11 PM
This is very informative. I had wondered why brakes would squeek, good explanation. O0

zum96spd
06-06-2006, 03:17 PM
Music to my ears, but I still hate it nonetheless... :buck2:

One Evo Pinay
06-06-2006, 03:26 PM
Loved the analysis, thanks for the clarification.

trinydex
07-17-2006, 02:52 PM
something people can try if they threw out their shims or need something more than just a metal shim.

http://www.racingbrake.com/Brake_Shims_s/2447.htm

has hte damping material already built in, just add some grease, drop them in and it should damp out the vibrations quite well.

manafest
07-20-2006, 10:41 AM
explains alot now... i was about to go to the dealer and have them look at mine. Maybe will look into this later... thanks!

silvery_eagle
07-20-2006, 10:45 AM
explains alot now... i was about to go to the dealer and have them look at mine. Maybe will look into this later... thanks!

yea... lots of new evo owner does not know this... they just need to break in the pads properly and 80% of the time the sound will be gone O0

speedracer2169
07-20-2006, 10:50 AM
trinydex custome title should be brake guru

manafest
07-20-2006, 10:50 AM
explains alot now... i was about to go to the dealer and have them look at mine. Maybe will look into this later... thanks!

yea... lots of new evo owner does not know this... they just need to break in the pads properly and 80% of the time the sound will be gone O0



oh hell yes! *Thanks man... makes me feel a lot better now... i have about 700 miles on them, when should they be broken in?

manafest
07-20-2006, 10:51 AM
trinydex custome title should be brake guru


dude your signature cracks me up everytime i see it lmao

trinydex
07-20-2006, 02:03 PM
explains alot now... i was about to go to the dealer and have them look at mine. Maybe will look into this later... thanks!

yea... lots of new evo owner does not know this... they just need to break in the pads properly and 80% of the time the sound will be gone O0



oh hell yes! Thanks man... makes me feel a lot better now... i have about 700 miles on them, when should they be broken in?
every time they start to squeek hahaha... the porsche dealers would tell those whiny porsche owners to actually use their brakes once in a while becuase the ceramics they equipt as oem get noisy if you don't and let the dust build up.

manafest
07-21-2006, 08:59 AM
wow i never woulda guessed... even $50000 cars can have squeaking noises :laugh:

GokuSSJ4
07-21-2006, 09:14 AM
something people can try if they threw out their shims or need something more than just a metal shim.

http://www.racingbrake.com/Brake_Shims_s/2447.htm

has hte damping material already built in, just add some grease, drop them in and it should damp out the vibrations quite well.
didnt some one made some out of titanium ?

GokuSSJ4
07-21-2006, 09:15 AM
trinydex custome title should be brake guru
he has a degree in Physics, so he knows how a lot of things work....

trinydex
07-21-2006, 02:34 PM
something people can try if they threw out their shims or need something more than just a metal shim.

http://www.racingbrake.com/Brake_Shims_s/2447.htm

has hte damping material already built in, just add some grease, drop them in and it should damp out the vibrations quite well.
didnt some one made some out of titanium ?
girodisc does, but the titanium is to try and isolate heat from the pistons.

actually racing brake's pieces isolate the heat better because they're made of an insulator material and they also have the extra benefit of damping out the vibrations.

jessedb8
08-26-2010, 07:20 AM
Most people who daily drive their cars and have squeaky brakes and riding with race pads because the pads are not at the optimal heat range for the race pads. On the track, however, the pads will reach a higher temperature and squeaking is at a minimal. Stop and go traffic, and lower speeds in the street is not putting the pads to good use...and probably wearing your rotors down more quickly because the race pads are much harder, it's like rubbing 50 grit sandpaper over glass, unless you reach a higher temperature, and also if the rotor is a stronger material than stock rotors, like stoptech rotors are.

typr2nv
12-08-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm a service tech and 95% of the time brake squeak is due to the lack of molylube between the contact points. Both drum and disc brakes have contact points where there is metal on metal contact. The molylube reduces, in some instances eliminates, sonic vibrations that produce a high pitched squeaking noise. Most consumers buy pads and don't bother to lube the contact points. A common misconception is that brake pads cause squeaking. WRONG! Regardless of the friction material the brake pads should not cause squeaking, unless.... The pad itself is defective from the manufactorer (hard spot on the pad, crack in the pad, bad pad arm cast) which is about 5% of the time.

Sx 217
12-08-2010, 11:28 PM
I always complaint about the noise....good to know how it happens.