Muellerized Evo Wins 17th Consecutive SCCA Race

[Muellerized...]

Our ambitious season of running our Evo in both the ITE (tub based chassis cars with unlimited mods and DOT tires) and also the Super Production class (tub based or tube chassis cars with unlimited mods and slick tires, we still run DOT tires on the Evo, no slicks for us at this time) continued with an eventful weekend of motor racing at Thunderhill Park. For the second SCCA race meeting in a row we had to run 3 race distances in the same day, including 2 30 minute races back to back. We qualified on the pole for ITE Saturday afternoon, then developed a motor issue which led to my team doing a precautionary motor change at the track, as the Sunday schedule left no margin for error due to the time constraints we were working under. The motor swap was an awesome display of the strength of our racing team, as everything was assembled perfectly before 2am Sunday, and our car ran all 3 races without issue, taking 2 3rd place finishes in Super Production and continued our winning streak in ITE with a crushing 74 second victory. I could not be more proud of JW, Chris and Kent for their grace under pressure and allowing me the privilege of racing/working with each of them. Currently we lead the season point standings in both classes, and we will be at Sears Point at the end of the month, hoping to issue more beat downs. :knuppel2:

[ultraflip]

congradulations mueller, RRC, and crew

[DTunedEvoX]

Damn thats an ass kicking for sure ... =O

[Miss Evo8]

Congrats! Good job!

Muellerized... PWNZ ALL!!!!!



I :smitten: Muellerized Evos!

[Richard EVO]

Congratulations on another win. However, I am beginning to agree with those on other boards who are saying that the way the car is set up, ITE simply provides no competition for Kent, and at some point, how many wins in a row do you need to prove that Kent dominates that class. I think its overkill at this point. Why not stick to classes where Kent actually has some real competition, like the other class you are running in where he finished third. It seems he would have more incentive to improve in a class like that, then in ITE where he can just phone it in.

[Lancer EVO IX]

Congrats! RRC owns.

[Muellerized...]

Congratulations on another win. However, I am beginning to agree with those on other boards who are saying that the way the car is set up, ITE simply provides no competition for Kent, and at some point, how many wins in a row do you need to prove that Kent dominates that class. I think its overkill at this point. Why not stick to classes where Kent actually has some real competition, like the other class you are running in where he finished third. It seems he would have more incentive to improve in a class like that, then in ITE where he can just phone it in.

Our focus is the development of our driver and team. The only way to do this on an accelerated schedule is to maximize ones track time, this is why we double enter each event, despite the challenges of doing so.

There is absolutely no such thing as 'phoning it in' in the world of motorsports, one must see the checkered flag at the end of the day to win. That type of mentality comes from people that are tired of getting their ass kicked by us, and you will find it difficult to find anyone that finishes 17 race distances in a row, much less having the preparation and discipline to win that many consecutively.

[Unowned]

congrats Kent, John, and the RRC crew...

[NMREJ6]

congrats O0 to everyone on your team

keep the checkerd flags coming

[hagakure]

Congratulations Kent, John, and Crew. You guys all know You have my 100% support, and I'm happy to see your success. But, I have to chime in with Richard just a little bit on this one. Kent is so far ahead of the other ITE cars, the car is so far ahead in development and capability, that it's barely a race. You guys qualify on pole, then Kent does not see another car, other than going through lapped traffic. I suppose one could argue that it's good practice in lapping traffic....but it is getting a bit like shooting fish in a barrel!:) Looking forward to seeing you guys move on past ITE in the next year or 2. Again, congratulations.

[blkside]

Congratultions...it sounds like you guys are out there taking it to the competition. Sounds like you got ITE on lockdown so I will wish you success in your other classes....

[evoibad]

What other cars compete in that class?

[javinsMR]

congratulations!

[Richard EVO]

. . . it is getting a bit like shooting fish in a barrel!


+1

[Ricardon]

Grats John, Kent et al.

[Senshi]

congrats on the wins, but i do have to kinda agree with richard. kent and the mullerized team are kinda like Schumacher and ferrari 2 years ago they are on another level and are just competing against themselves. ill def be looking forward to the next stage in the mullerized teams development.

[EvoPwr]

Wow, why the hell would they stop racing in a class when their car meets the requirements. Like John said, there is no such thing as winning too many, each win is practice. Should the top NCAA football teams play against the pros since they go undefeated during their seasons? No, because there is never a forsure thing in life except death comes at one time or another. They should stay in the ITE that way the other cars know what they need to become. It is pushing the other cars to become better and try new things.

[hagakure]

We all have our opinion, and I respect yours. But I'm sorry, the competitors that the Muellerized team are competing against do not have commensurate resources, time, or opportunity to compete with them. This is, in effect, a professional team effort. Few drivers have the time or resources to put into the car that Kent has, nor the level of informed, professional support that John provides. What may happen is that some other potential competitors might come out of the woodwork who DO have the resources, time, etc to compete with the Muellerized team, and that would be indeed interesting!

[slider]

We all have our opinion, and I respect yours. But I'm sorry, the competitors that the Muellerized team are competing against do not have commensurate resources, time, or opportunity to compete with them. This is, in effect, a professional team effort. Few drivers have the time or resources to put into the car that Kent has, nor the level of informed, professional support that John provides. What may happen is that some other potential competitors might come out of the woodwork who DO have the resources, time, etc to compete with the Muellerized team, and that would be indeed interesting!


* Percy, you're right that there are "few drivers" that have the same resources that we bring to the track.* There have been a few though, mostly Ferarri Challenge and Viper teams etc., but we still manage to lay the pipe to 'em.* There are, however, a number of Evo tuners/shops that make money from this community that have the resources and elect to do everything BUT race their stuff. I do wish they would come out and race against us.

* As some of you know we bought us a couple of Oreca Vipers which we'll be racing in the near future.* We want to accomplish a number of things with these particular race cars. One of which is to head up to NorCal and hand a beatdown to the guy who currently "owns" the rest of us in Super Production(SP).* His name is Stefanowicz.* He drives a F-ing amazing Porsche that is quite a piece of machinery.* Our Evo doesn't stand a chance against him.* I spoke with him for some time at the track this past weekend and he's asking me why I didn't "bring out" the Vipers.* He's giving me a good natured smackdown of course and I let him know that we're looking forward to getting up to speed and in time kicking his Porsche driving ass.* His comment to me, and remember he's the guy who owns SP in the region, is that he's glad someone is finally anteing up to come get him.* He's just another Club racer with the right attitude.

[Senshi]

^^ sounds like youll be having some fun with the vipers :twisted:

I do agree i think it would be really cool if some of the other EVO tuners got into more motorsports to go up against you guys. The reason why i back up RRE and RRC so much is because there huge effort in motorsports.

[speedform]

Good luck with the Vipers Kent. Although it pains me a little to see you go to the dark side (hehe) I hope you bring the can of whoopass to those pesky Germans! ;)

[hagakure]

Right On Kent! I'm glad to see you guys taking on the big boys witht he Vipers. I know that with the level of dedication, as well as attention to detail that you all bring tot he table you'll throw em a beatin....

I wish more of the other tuners would get into head to head racing with their Evos as well, but I would not hold my breath. you can get just as much PR mileage doing the "time attack" thing, which is growing in popularity, witness the growth of NASA time trial int he past 2 years. It's the way I'm going myself, even more so since they have a national championship track. I'm going to leave my wheel to wheel exploits to shifter Karting! Don't get me wrong on my analysis though...I got your back! Just glad to see you guys branching out...heard the rumour about the Vipers, did not know if it was true. Good to hear it!

[Richard EVO]

I have seen the 2 race Vipers (but not th 3rd trakday Viper), the rig the parts (40 magnesium wheels!!!) And tools in person. They are real.

[say when]

keep up the good work. Nice see the evo running up front. O0

[Muellerized...]

Good luck with the Vipers Kent. Although it pains me a little to see you go to the dark side (hehe) I hope you bring the can of whoopass to those pesky Germans! ;)

http://www.muellerized.com/vipers/Vipers%20114.jpg
Some other pics of our new equipment are located here:
www.muellerized.com/vipers
As far as our operation out classing the opposition, my family has been SCCA racing for over 40 years, and I have seen the full spectrum of highs and lows in motorsport firsthand. It is my responsibility as a competitor to raise my game to the level needed to be successful, and my choice to maximize the potential of our driver and equipment, so we can one day compete at a higher level of motorsport. I do not feel sorry one bit for the poor bastards that have lost every race for more than the past calendar year, the same as the people that have finished in front of my father or myself over the years showed us absolutely no mercy when they had the upper hand on that particular day. There was no Evo owner group hug when Kent flipped his first race car end over end last year, and certainly no round of applause when he ran out of brakes and smashed the tire wall at Laguna Seca the first race last season, just no excuses from our team, and countless hours of 7 days a week work ethic from each of my teammates to get our program on the right path. I find the pissing and whining about our success in poor taste, as there are many people that bad mouth the level of reliability of Mitsubishi products, and we are the _only_ team in the United States that competes with an Evo in an 'unlimited' class of circuit road racing. If it is so easy to run an Evo at its potential for 50 miles at a time, and lower lap records that have stood for years by over 3 seconds a lap at some of the toughest road racing circuits in the country, why are there not more Evos competing?

[Richard EVO]

The answer why other EVOs are not competing at anything close to your level seems obvious to me: $$$

[hagakure]

Whoa John.....

Some of us are not "pissing and whining"...I hope you do not misconstrue the comments that Richard and I, as well as a few others have made as being undermining, they are not. Just putting out some questioning as to what the next step is, as you obviously have the bases covered in ITE. Most all of us on these boards are excited and supportive of what you are doing, without a doubt, and as far as the differences of opinion, animosities, *that come from your competition, well, that's competition. Regarding why there are not more Evos competing at the level that you guys do, one big issue is simple.....$$$$. these cars are phenomenally expensive to open track, let alone race. Outfits like Works, Vishnu, etc simply cannot afford to go racing, even if the burning desire was there. I would love to see more folks out racing and pushing the envelope on these cars the way you guys do, and that's why you'll continue to get our support, so, in a nutshell, we are not trying to pull you down, just making some opinionated observations...hope this passes for a "group hug":)

[Richard EVO]

John -

To put the pickle on the fork, those other EVO shops don't have a customer/driver like Kent Jordan, who can afford to go out and buy an entire Viper racing program at the drop of a hat, and to employ you and your team virtually full-time.* :2funny:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/richard350z/ViperJohn.jpg

[ustcc evo]

While Mueller may have been absolved from the not inconsiderable task of chasing sponsorship, that task is only a small fraction of what it takes to win with the success that John and Kent have achieved.

As part of one of the few other teams that actively campaigns an Evo, I know exactly how tough these wins actually are and how much their team deserves kudos and respect.

By the time Kent actually gets on track, the race has already been won or lost. Those 7 day weeks that John mentioned are the only way to make wins happen consistantly, regardless of how fast or slow your car is.

If I am not mistaken, the evo has had two problems in SP this year. These problems could easily have occured during an ITE race, but they didn't because John and his team work above and beyond the call of duty to do everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen.

The congrats are well deserved and the performance is significant. And without people like John to race against, this sport wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

That said, maybe it is time for spec evo. I know Tam from NorCal is looking for a place to race his evo, and vesko from salt lake claims to be building a few cars. Anybody interested racing against the only other cars that can keep up...other Evos!

-Dave Bongiovanni
USTCC #8

[Skiracer]

:jaw:
http://www.muellerized.com/vipers/Vipers%20109.jpg
http://www.muellerized.com/vipers/Vipers%20and%20Stuff%20057.jpg

[Skiracer]

John, what size tires are you running on those cars???

[leaveit2bevo]

thats some serious shit i want to see the vipers.

[GokuSSJ4]

thats some serious shit i want to see the vipers.

go to the shop...
you will be suprise how many spare sets of rims they have for those vipers....

[JWest]

So,

Rome was not built in a day.
But, there was a lot of ass kicked along the way...

Huge thanks to all our supporters.

JW ;-)

[Miss Evo8]

So,

Rome was not built in a day.
But, there was a lot of ass kicked along the way...

Huge thanks to all our supporters.

JW ;-)


:2funny:

[Muellerized...]

John, what size tires are you running on those cars???

The wheels are 18 x 12 front, 18 x 13 rear.
The tires are 325-650-18 front. 325-705-18 rear.

For reference, we run an 18 x 10.5 wheel with a 315-30-18 tire on the Evo.

[Senshi]

So,

Rome was not built in a day.
But, there was a lot of ass kicked along the way...

Huge thanks to all our supporters.

JW ;-)


haha thats a great way to put it

[nj1266]

Congratulations Kent, John, and Crew. You guys all know You have my 100% support, and I'm happy to see your success. But, I have to chime in with Richard just a little bit on this one. Kent is so far ahead of the other ITE cars, the car is so far ahead in development and capability, that it's barely a race. You guys qualify on pole, then Kent does not see another car, other than going through lapped traffic. I suppose one could argue that it's good practice in lapping traffic....but it is getting a bit like shooting fish in a barrel!:) Looking forward to seeing you guys move on past ITE in the next year or 2. Again, congratulations.

I have to agree with you on this one. You need real competition to improve as a driver/team. I have made myself a promise to leave a class after I win it or even come close to wining it. There is no point in wining a class over and over and over again. I started with NASA and won SRX twice, then left to TCRA and won their MA less than 2.2 L class and now I am with SCCA and I am in second (with race drops) in the RS class. I have yet to win a race in RS, but I am really enjoying the competition. My car is the underdog of the class and I do the mechanical work, set-up the suspension, and drive. My brother is my pit crew. That is our team. No big budget and a very cheap car to run.

Next year we will move to ITA and race there. That should be even more competitive than RS.

[nj1266]

That said, maybe it is time for spec evo. I know Tam from NorCal is looking for a place to race his evo, and vesko from salt lake claims to be building a few cars. Anybody interested racing against the only other cars that can keep up...other Evos!

-Dave Bongiovanni
USTCC #8

Why do you need a Spec Evo class when you have T2. The EVO can run there. I would love to see John/Kent race in T2 where there are little to no mods allowed to an EVO. That is a competitive NATIONAL class. Kent can really improve his driving skills and john can extract the last smidgen of power/performance from a stock EVO. It is also cheaper than going out and buying a viper racing team to compete in a regional class. If Kent becomes the champ of his T2 division he can even go to the national runoffs and have the team on TV. What better exposure do you need?

here are the touring rules if anyone is interested

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/Touring.pdf

[Skiracer]

We all have our opinion, and I respect yours. But I'm sorry, the competitors that the Muellerized team are competing against do not have commensurate resources, time, or opportunity to compete with them. This is, in effect, a professional team effort. Few drivers have the time or resources to put into the car that Kent has, nor the level of informed, professional support that John provides. What may happen is that some other potential competitors might come out of the woodwork who DO have the resources, time, etc to compete with the Muellerized team, and that would be indeed interesting!

You hit the nail on the head. Racing and wining is MOSTLY about MONEY. Money is very important, but it is not the only thing. The John/Kent team has a lot of resources and they race in a very open class like ITE. If they really crave competition then they should try racing in World Challenge. Either that or try SCCA T2 class where the EVO is almost kept stock. That will give them some real competition. An EVO in T2 runs stock suspension (shocks are open), stock engine (ECU flash only), stock interior. The Evo will have competition from STIs and SRT-4s. It is a really great class for competition. If I have the resources I plan to run my EVO in that class in the future.


Uh, why would Kent wanna turn his Evo to nearly stock again???

[gt40]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing.* Go troll somewhere else. You claim to be running an effort yourself, Great. Depreciating someone else's hard won efforts just looks like whiny evy crap :roll:

[nj1266]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing. Go troll somewhere else :roll:

Is that intended for me??

[gt40]

You bet

[nj1266]

You bet

Tell me why you say that? I am intrigued

[Richard EVO]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing. *Go troll somewhere else. You claim to be running an effort yourself, Great. Depreciating someone else's hard won efforts just looks like whiny evy crap :roll:


gt40 -

If you were talking to naji, you don't know who you are talking to. *You are the troll.

[nj1266]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing. *Go troll somewhere else. You claim to be running an effort yourself, Great. Depreciating someone else's hard won efforts just looks like whiny evy crap :roll:

I do not CLAIM. I am doing it and have done it. I am not depricating anyone's effort. I am just saying what evrey racer knows: Racing is about MONEY. Money gets you the best team support, the best driver and the wins that come with it. This is true 80-90% of the time. I am not begruding John/Kent's success. More power to them. I hope they win a million more ITE/SP races. I am just stating an opinion like eveyone elses. It just so happens that you disagree with my opinion and you are deleting my posts.

I have raced once with John/Kent in RS this March and I have the utmost respect for them. But as I said before, there effort will be more noticed and apprciated if they race in T2 in SCCA. It is a national class that gives them exposure and the competition is fierce.

[gt40]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing. Go troll somewhere else. You claim to be running an effort yourself, Great. Depreciating someone else's hard won efforts just looks like whiny evy crap :roll:

I do not CLAIM. I am doing it and have done it. I am not depricating anyone's effort. I am just saying what evrey racer knows: Racing is about MONEY. Money gets you the best team support, the best driver and the wins that come with it. This is true 80-90% of the time. I am not begruding John/Kent's success. More power to them. I hope they win a million more ITE/SP races. I am just stating an opinion like eveyone elses. It just so happens that you disagree with my opinion and you are deleting my posts.

I have raced once with John/Kent in RS this March and I have the utmost respect for them. But as I said before, there effort will be more noticed and apprciated if they race in T2 in SCCA. It is a national class that gives them exposure and the competition is fierce.


You were just saying they were competing uncompetitively a minute ago. I think you will find that they will get to a different level just fine. Good luck racing your car- Just don't be so quick to jump into someone else's thread and depreciate it.

[nj1266]

I know who he is. *I just think he has a crappy attitude. *I have raced myself and recognize whining when I see it. *This thread is about Muellerized team and their hard won efforts. *He can start a thread of his own about his efforts or about how you "should" compete with an evo acording him. *Bagging on someones efforts or minimizing it because you aren't competing at that level is just weak...

You have no idea who I am and I do not know who you are. Have you ever met me? Have I ever met you? You are being judgemental based on posts on the internet. You do not recognize crap. If I was racing in the same class as John/Kent and they were beating me, then you can say that I am whining. However, I am not racing with them in the same class. The only time I was in the same class with them was in March 06 @ Buttonwillow in RS and both days I finished ahead of Kent and John on both days. So please tell me why should I whine? You are making absolutely no sense.

[Richard EVO]

I first met Naji in Oct. 2003 at Streets of Willow, when I was running my first track day ever.* He is a fast driver, works on his own car, often wins in his class, and most of all, has a lot of class.* He is always ready to help out other drivers, and is a geniune nice guy.* I consider him a friend.* He bought an EVO, at least in part, because he was impressed with mine when I let him drive it at Buttonwillow some time back.* He is entitled to his opinion, and he is one of several posters here who think Kent is beating a dead horse by continuing to dominate ITE.* What is he proving with 17 wins in a row?* He is proving he is running in a class that is beneath him and his car.

[nj1266]

You obviously have no understanding of what has gone into this effort or the point of racing. Go troll somewhere else. You claim to be running an effort yourself, Great. Depreciating someone else's hard won efforts just looks like whiny evy crap :roll:

I do not CLAIM. I am doing it and have done it. I am not depricating anyone's effort. I am just saying what evrey racer knows: Racing is about MONEY. Money gets you the best team support, the best driver and the wins that come with it. This is true 80-90% of the time. I am not begruding John/Kent's success. More power to them. I hope they win a million more ITE/SP races. I am just stating an opinion like eveyone elses. It just so happens that you disagree with my opinion and you are deleting my posts.

I have raced once with John/Kent in RS this March and I have the utmost respect for them. But as I said before, there effort will be more noticed and apprciated if they race in T2 in SCCA. It is a national class that gives them exposure and the competition is fierce.


You were just saying they were competing uncompetitively a minute ago. I think you will find that they will get to a different level just fine. Good luck racing your car- Just don't be so quick to jump into someone else's thread and depreciate it.

The amount of money spent in their race effort is not commensurate with the class that they are racing in. I have read the ITE rules, they are wide open and the team that spends more money to get the best driver, best parts, best team support usually wins. T2 is way more competitive than ITE is. Winning the T2 national championship will be a far bigger achievement for John/Kent than winning ITE.

[trinydex]

i think what could have been interpreted as "childish" was the "well i beat them over here and they kick ass over there, let's see if they can come kick my ass now."

i'm sure this sounds all out of context and it's not waht you intended or isn't whining or lalala... but this is the internet... what were you seriously expecting? absolute understanding of what you wanted to convey? so it's a travesty of what you said... AND?

seriously... people are talkin' about two different things like they're opposites... this is like a pro life pro choice debate.

the fact is... they're winning. the fact is... kent doesn't wanna get more competitive with you or with evos. in his mind and many other's they've done enough with evos, proving what can be done and what is worth doing more. he's now got some vipers... he wants to do great things there. he outlined his plan to chase someone down in competition. if that's not "more competitive" then you are just in search of some personal thunder.

[rammsteinmatt]

what did michael schumacher prove by winning the driver's championship all those years in a row? nothing?


so anyways, O0 for john, kent, and the team

[Senshi]

what did michael schumacher prove by winning the driver's championship all those years in a row? nothing?

he proved that having a much bigger budget then all the other teams in F1 makes you win races.......

[rammsteinmatt]

what did michael schumacher prove by winning the driver's championship all those years in a row? nothing?

he proved that having a much bigger budget then all the other teams in F1 makes you win races.......


ya you're right, MSC is an absolute rubbish driver. but ferrari throws so much money into F1 that he miraculously wins.

oh and when FIA changed the rules to try and dethrone ferrari. that was all a fascade, they really helped ferrari, thats why they won again

what about when he won at beneton? did beneton out spend all the other teams too......or do we just glance over that?

[nj1266]

i think what could have been interpreted as "childish" was the "well i beat them over here and they kick ass over there, let's see if they can come kick my ass now."

I have no idea what you are saying. The only reason I mentioned finishing ahead of John/Kent in RS in March is because GT40 accused me of whining. I find that odd since I have nothing to whine about.


the fact is... they're winning. the fact is... kent doesn't wanna get more competitive with you or with evos. in his mind and many other's they've done enough with evos, proving what can be done and what is worth doing more. he's now got some vipers... he wants to do great things there. he outlined his plan to chase someone down in competition. if that's not "more competitive" then you are just in search of some personal thunder.

Racing is about two things money and class racing rules. SP seems to be a San Fran region only class. It is an offshoot of GT class. IIRC GT class is basically tube frame cars with a shell. In ITE and GT class rules are wide open, Please read the ITE/GT rules. Here is the link to the SCCA rule book http://www.scca.com/Club/Index.asp?reference=gcr

Read under GT class and see how wide open it is. Given that the rules allow almost limitless modifications, the team that has the most money to get the best driver, the best crew, and the best equipment will win 90% of the time. That is the case with John/Kent. Kent has the money and some driving skills and John has the crew, parts, know-how. There is NOTHING wrong with that. No one is complaining and whining. I wish they can continue to dominate ITE/SP from here to eternity. Just keep in mind that they really do not have competition since money plays the biggest factor in winning.

Now let us look at the T2 rules. T2 rules are almost stock. Stock suspension (shocks allowed), stock engine, stock body, stock wheels. You can blueprint and balance and go 0.040 over bore IIRC. That is it. You can also flash the ECU. In this class money is not as big a factor as in ITE/SP. In this class Kent's driving skills will count more than his money. In this class John's superior suspension tuning with the shocks and ability to extract power from a stock car will become legendary if they win this national class.

IMO, it is far more beneficial to Kent's driving skills and John's business if they go race in T2 rather than race vipers in a regional class like SP.

Personally, I would love to see John/Kent race in T2 so they can destroy the competition. That will be fun to watch. A Muellerized EVO in the T2 runoffs will be worth going to watch.

[Senshi]

I do understand alot of what your saying nj1266 but i guess what it all comes down to is kent and the mullerized team enjoying themselves in whatever kind of racing they want succeed in (cus im sure thats what they'll do).

[trinydex]

IMO, it is far more beneficial to Kent's driving skills and John's business if they go race in T2 rather than race vipers in a regional class like SP.

Personally, I would love to see John/Kent race in T2 so they can destroy the competition. That will be fun to watch. A Muellerized EVO in the T2 runoffs will be worth going to watch.
but this is where i disagree... that's basically a demotion, racing stock cars is like going from superkarts back to racing at gokartworld, though it's challenging... it's not exactly a spectacle.

i understand that you are sayin' racing t2 is more meaningful in a certain perspective but it's also slower, less fun, and contrary to what you stated that you believe; i believe it's not exciting.

very few people watch grand touring racing in america as it is... same for le mans etc. nascar is obviously much more spectator friendly... so thinking that people will get up on the weekend to watch a buncha hardly modified rides run around is just... overly optomistic.

[Senshi]

wow i think although this is an interesting disscusion about motorsports it has gone off topic from the original post john made....i dont think the thread should be too cleaned up but maybe there should be a new thread about what differant events EVOs can be raced in.

[x[corwyn]]

wow i think although this is an interesting disscusion about motorsports it has gone off topic from the original post john made....i dont the thread should be too cleaned up but maybe there should be a new thread about what differant events EVOs can be raced in.


I agree with that. I would like to see these classes as well. This would be something interesting to see for those of us with close to stock cars that would like to have some fun.

[slider]

Happy Fathers day to all the other dads out there.

* This thread sees to have some legs.* Lots of different points being made so let me add to them.* I'm not neccessarily speaking for Mueller/crew.*

* We race in the SanFran region cuz it's the best region, track wise and competitor wise, in SCCA racing(in my opinion.)* I guess we could have built a car to T2 spec's and raced it in that region.* There is usually at least 1 car running in T2 on any given race weekend.* Last season there was a WORKS sponsored Evo racing in T2.* It was driven by Mike Santos, a real nice guy btw, but he's been absent this season.* Mueller ane Co. spent more time working on that car trackside last season than the sponsor did funny enough(maybe it should have sported a Muellerized sticker as well).* This year the "Dorito Bros" are racing their 350Z.* That's about it.* T2 runs in our race group so we see them in passing...

* I suppose I would have learned as much racing last year in T2 as I did in ITE.* Would have saved some money as well.* We prolly would have qualified to run in the Nationals.* I suppose it would have been fun.* But enough supposing.

There is, or was, somebody racing in T2.* Bongiovani is covering USTCC and dominating with his Evo, that is until he's penalized and weighing 4000 lbs!!!*

* One thing is for certain.* We wouldn't have learned nearly as much about what the Evo is capable of achieving if we decided to race in a class where there were restrictions on what we could do to the car.* There wouldn't have been any 1:22's at SOW's. no 1:36's at Laguna, no 1:57's at Thunderhill, no 1:45's at Infineon.*

* Some guys have posted* there needs to be an "evo/sti" race class to make things interesting and fair.* Maybe, but I suspect even then there will be people carping that others are winning because their budgets etc. blah blah blah.

* There is no faster Evo racing their car in the US than ours.* Period.* We run our Evo HARD and put her to bed soaking wet.* We are the fastest ON ALL CALIFORNIA TRACKS despite what others post and claim.* We make NO excuses one way or the other. We don't need to.* WE ARE THE FASTEST and WILL ONLY GET FASTER until someone ponies the time and resources to beat us.* I AM NOT THE BEST DRIVER.* That's for sure.* I've never ever said/thought I was.* I go fast cuz my car is fast.* We aren't "pouring" alot of money into the Evo this season.* The last couple of race weekends, despite racing in 3 race groups per weekend, we run* only 2 new tires(not sets) per weekends racing* AND WE STILL WIN AND SET NEW TRACK RECORDS.

[Chris in SD]

Thanks for your input, Kent... Nice Vipers and rig, btw...

With all the talk about what people would like to see, I'd like to see Evos competing in the Speed World Challenge (or Speed GT). That would be fun to watch...

[slider]

Thanks for your input, Kent... Nice Vipers and rig, btw...

With all the talk about what people would like to see, I'd like to see Evos competing in the Speed World Challenge (or Speed GT). That would be fun to watch...


So would I!

[hagakure]

Kent,

This is a reply to your post two messages up, As I cannot gett he quotes to work on this site. Since I am obviously one of the people that is "carping" about your winning because of the money etc, I still don't feel like my comments were understood. Firstly, and again, I'm happy for your success. Secondly, the issue of finding appropriate and stiff enough competition seems to be addressed by your buying the Viper Team, fantastic. My only point was that the competition in ITE is not competition anymore. Pure and simple, and you guys recognize this, and have formulated a plan to move on beyond it. There were no negative allegations intended regarding your "buying" victories because of deep pockets. You still have to produce a car that works, you still have to drive it. You still need ongoing professional support...all of which you guys have put together in a manner that predicts probable success at more comptetitve levels....I'm happy to see it. All of us that re trying to go fast in Evos would never turn down the opportunity to build a faster, better car, and yours is certainly a role model! good luck with all the automotive endeavors, and thanks for your open mind concerning the opinions of those of us int he peanut gallery looking in from the outside. As you continue to climb the ladder the feedback will increase, bot good and bad, it's part of the competitive game. See you at Thunderhill in July.

Percy

[Richard EVO]

Kent,

This is a reply to your post two messages up, As I cannot gett he quotes to work on this site. Since I am obviously one of the people that is "carping" about your winning because of the money etc, I still don't feel like my comments were understood. Firstly, and again, I'm happy for your success. Secondly, the issue of finding appropriate and stiff enough competition seems to be addressed by your buying the Viper Team, fantastic. My only point was that the competition in ITE is not competition anymore. Pure and simple, and you guys recognize this, and have formulated a plan to move on beyond it. There were no negative allegations intended regarding your "buying" victories because of deep pockets. You still have to produce a car that works, you still have to drive it. You still need ongoing professional support...all of which you guys have put together in a manner that predicts probable success at more comptetitve levels....I'm happy to see it. All of us that re trying to go fast in Evos would never turn down the opportunity to build a faster, better car, and yours is certainly a role model! good luck with all the automotive endeavors, and thanks for your open mind concerning the opinions of those of us int he peanut gallery looking in from the outside. As you continue to climb the ladder the feedback will increase, bot good and bad, it's part of the competitive game. See you at Thunderhill in July.

Percy


+1

Happy Father's Day!

Kent -

We all want to see you succeed at higher levels in your EVO. While we are envious of your Viper program, as well as your ability to afford it and your great race EVO, we just want to see you move up in class in the EVO and prove what these cars can really do. There is no doubting your track records at all the road courses in California. We just don't see the point of you finishing a race an entire lap ahead of the so-called "competition." Please keep racing the EVO, in whatever faster class you can get into.

[nj1266]

Slider,

First, congratulations on your wins and on your new viper team. I wish you great success in racing the viper. I really mean it. I just want to say a few things:

1. I think that you would have learned a lot more driving in T2 than driving in ITE. It is far harder to race an almost stock car than racing a car that is next to perfect like your ITE car. In T2 you need to work harder to handle an understeering and underpowered EVO. In ITE the car plays a bigger role than the driver. In T2 it is the opposite.

2. In all SCCA regions there are national races and regional races. Sometimes they run them together. The reason why you did not see many T2 cars is because the class you run in is regional and the T2 class is national. That does not mean, however, that there are not any T2 cars running in regional races. But almost all of the time T2 cars run in national races. I checked the entry list of the March 17, 06 National race for SF and found 11 T2 cars. Subarus, 350Zs and Evos were represented. Then I checked the regional season openner and found 4 T2 cars only.

3. Having won *ITE last year and won 17 rces in row, you simply have nothing left to prove in ITE. Furthermore, the level of competition is simply not there. I checked the 06 points and found Mark Kibort in a 86 Porsche 928S in 2nd place. I googled Mark Kibort and found out that the guy used to drive his car to the track. http://www.electricsupercharger.com/driverbio.shtml I do not know if things have changed since 2004 for him. But he simply cannot compete with you and you will smash him almost always when both of you are on the track. In the May 21 06 race at TH you were approx. 4 seconds faster than he was per lap and he came in 2nd. You probably lapped him by the end of the race :-)

In 05 one of your competitors was Dave Allen (finished third in points). He was driving an RX7 like the one you were driving in the March of 06 at ButtonWillow. I met Dave Allen at a May ButtonWillow event and he is a hell of a driver. He won on Sunday and came 2nd on Sat in RS class. Since you drove an RX7 like the one he has, do you honestly think that the RX-7 can compete against your EVO? I do not think that it can since the RX7 is prepped to run in ITS and not ITE. It is a normally aspirated rotary powered engine. It has little to no torque.

Please do not think that we are trying to detract from your achievement. It is very impressive indeed. All we are saying that you have nothing left to prove in ITE. I think the next logical step, had you not bought the Viper, would be to take the EVO to a World Challenge class. With your resoruces and skills and John's impressive tuning skills you have a good chance at a podium. Personally, I prefer T2, but since you already bought the Vipers, it is a moot point.

Happy father's day and I wish you great success racing the Vipers.

[Senshi]

Thanks for your input, Kent... Nice Vipers and rig, btw...

With all the talk about what people would like to see, I'd like to see Evos competing in the Speed World Challenge (or Speed GT). That would be fun to watch...


So would I!

This really would be cool but i think you might be hit with some restrictions like the Skyline in SpeedGT. It would definitely be alot of fun to watch though.

[Chris in SD]

Thanks for your input, Kent... Nice Vipers and rig, btw...

With all the talk about what people would like to see, I'd like to see Evos competing in the Speed World Challenge (or Speed GT). That would be fun to watch...


* So would I!

This really would be cool but i think you might be hit with some restrictions like the Skyline in SpeedGT. It would definitely be alot of fun to watch though.


I think a T2-type setup would probably work in the touring cars, and I would imagine it would be damn-near unrestricted to run competitively in GT. Remember the Skyline has a twin-turbo 6-cylinder, while the Evo is a single-turbo 4. They might make some concessions...

[hagakure]

No....

They would not make concessions. People know what these cars are capable of. None of these series, ALMS, Speed GT, or Grand AM, is kind to turbocharged cars, because the envelope of development is so wide on them. I mean the Mullerized Evo is capable of close to, or over 600 HP outof 2.0 ltrs...+AWD? They are hard on turbocharged cars. Look at the bind they have the Esx STI in.

[Miss Evo8]

No....

They would not make concessions. People know what these cars are capable of. None of these series, ALMS, Speed GT, or Grand AM, is kind to turbocharged cars, because the envelope of development is so wide on them. I mean the Mullerized Evo is capable of close to, or over 600 HP outof 2.0 ltrs...+AWD? They are hard on turbocharged cars. Look at the bind they have the Esx STI in.


I heard it was only like 450 thats what John told me

[Chris in SD]

No....

They would not make concessions. People know what these cars are capable of. None of these series, ALMS, Speed GT, or Grand AM, is kind to turbocharged cars, because the envelope of development is so wide on them. I mean the Mullerized Evo is capable of close to, or over 600 HP outof 2.0 ltrs...+AWD? They are hard on turbocharged cars. Look at the bind they have the Esx STI in.


The only bind I've seen the ESX STi in is a bunch of blown engines. Ali is a nice guy, but their cars blow up A LOT. Keep in mind, too, that the Audi RS6 run by Champion was AWD and turbocharged and was competitive. And it had a 4.2L V8 w/twin turbos. That said, I'm not sure what, if any, air restrictors it had.

[hagakure]

"I heard it was only like 450 thats what John told me"

If it's 450 I'm guessing WHP......but, I could be wrong.

[trinydex]

Thanks for your input, Kent... Nice Vipers and rig, btw...

With all the talk about what people would like to see, I'd like to see Evos competing in the Speed World Challenge (or Speed GT). That would be fun to watch...


* So would I!

This really would be cool but i think you might be hit with some restrictions like the Skyline in SpeedGT. It would definitely be alot of fun to watch though.


I think a T2-type setup would probably work in the touring cars, and I would imagine it would be damn-near unrestricted to run competitively in GT. Remember the Skyline has a twin-turbo 6-cylinder, while the Evo is a single-turbo 4. They might make some concessions...
the subaru that came in dead last for long beach had a turbo 2.5 liter... yet it was still penalized with restrictions.

world challenge is a mystery to me. they'll allow certain factory backed cars to resemble nothing of what they were originally designed as yet you take a widebodyscoob or a an old skyline and they throw the book at them. i'm not saying unfair, i'm saying that they prefer to shape their sport around a particular demographic and then say thumbs down to the rest.

[Muellerized...]

world challenge is a mystery to me. they'll allow certain factory backed cars to resemble nothing of what they were originally designed as yet you take a widebodyscoob or a an old skyline and they throw the book at them. i'm not saying unfair, i'm saying that they prefer to shape their sport around a particular demographic and then say thumbs down to the rest.

There is no mystery in World Challenge. I have been working on homologating our brand of Evo for much of the past calendar year, with absolutely no success at getting a reasonable level of power versus weight compared to the cars that run up front. The largest hurdle between our team making a Laguna World Challenge debut is the fact that the SCCA has banned ABS braking systems on all cars built after January 1 2006, but allows the Vipers the use of ABS for the 2006 season. This makes it neccesary to reengineer our existing braking system, at no small expense.* :tickedoff: That and the fact both the Cadillacs and Corvettes get to use traction control, while the Evo gets no traction control or ABS. The final nail in the coffin for making a run at World Challenge with our existing car is our team is expected to incur 100% of the development and operating costs, while Mitsubishi is unable and/or unwilling to help us share the expense for introducing the Evo to professional motor racing in the United States.

Personally I would like to run our car at Laguna Seca, but it will not win, and the best we could shoot for is a top ten while avoiding the demo derby that breaks out at the season ending race each year. Our shaved World Challenge spec Toyos are already in our garage at Thunderhill, and we will test on them this summer to determine the best way to set our car up on them, we will see if the SCCA will give us a more favorable opportunity to run our car in the near future...

[nj1266]

I read an article in one of the three most commonly read mags about WC and how SCCA tries to equalize the cars in GT and touring class. It is on a case by case basis. Basically, there is a person who observes the cars on the track and if one car/team appears to be dominant, then they are slapped with a restrictor plate to slow them down. That is what happened with the Cadillac V when they dominanted in their debut. SCCA slapped them with a restrictions in the next few races and that equalized the competition.

This approach was confirmed to me when I was at Tri-Point Mazda delivering my shocks for a rebuild. The team was at Sebring and they dominated in qualifying by a significant margin. So SCCA slapped them with a restrictor right after qualifying. The shop manger was very upset by this. He wanted to driver to "sandbag" a bit in qualifying and the driver did not.

That is the basic approach that SCCA follows in World Challenge. Show up and race and if you are too dominant, then they will slap you with a restriction to equalize the playing field. Ofcourse, there are some general "Dos and Donts", but beyond that it is a case-by-case basis and depends on how your car/team/driver performs on the track.

[Chris in SD]

Thanks for the detailed "why and why nots" of World Challenge. That's too bad that the rules are so variable (and harsh) against the imports. It's not like you're trying to run a V8-engined M3 in a "stock"-type class...

[trinydex]

but see that's exactly what i'm talkin' about... the rules are variable... case by case and if you AREN'T dominate... then they don't care. they don't take your restrictions off do they? it's just too bad you drive a japanese car. some cars are allowed tube chassis and some must keep their monocoque. this is just stupid. it's totally subjective on who tehy WANT to see race and i bet that has to do with money too.

[hagakure]

Of course it has to do with money. If Mitsubishi and Subaru would pony up and suport teams like Muellerized and ESX, it might be a different story. The race series has to generate revenue, and the manufacturers are a big part of this. Ad revenue, etc.... this is where Mitsubishi would be no help at all. The allmighty dollar is always at the bottom of this kind of stuff in motorsport. how many sports do you get to see competitors (drivers in this case) compete that are clearly not at the level of the rest of the field, but are able to do so because they have the sponsorship $$ behind them? Case in point F1. Sebastien Bourdais is arguably better than all of the field with the exception of Schumacher, Raikkonnen, Alonzo, Webber and Button...but could he bring in the requisite $$$$? This is an unfortunate by- product of a sport where it takes massive amounts of money just to show up effectively.

[trinydex]

big sigh. i see no ponying up in the future. we all know that both suby and mitsu show no pressense or any desire for pressence in the united states.

[EVO Neil]

The final nail in the coffin for making a run at World Challenge with our existing car is our team is expected to incur 100% of the development and operating costs, while Mitsubishi is unable and/or unwilling to help us share the expense for introducing the Evo to professional motor racing in the United States.

On this point alone I would disagree with you. They just plain don't have the money. I don't believe it's a matter being unwilling. You and I know plenty of people within Mitsubishi USA that would love to support some form of racing.

[Muellerized...]

The final nail in the coffin for making a run at World Challenge with our existing car is our team is expected to incur 100% of the development and operating costs, while Mitsubishi is unable and/or unwilling to help us share the expense for introducing the Evo to professional motor racing in the United States.

On this point alone I would disagree with you. They jusy plain don't have the money. I don't believe it's a matter being unwilling. You and I know plenty of people within Mitsubishi USA that would love to support some form of racing.

There are plenty of ways a team like ours can be helped, as far as competing at the next level, most of which have nothing to do with cash. We _do_ appreciate the people that work at Mitsubishi that have done everything possible within their position to help us move forward, and we will continue supporting their product to the best of our ability.

[Ricardon]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

[blkside]

Rich let me make your day ...go a page or so back on the OC CB and take a look at a couple of my posts....chill and have a good day...screw banning....kneecap em....

[Miss Evo8]

Rich let me make your day ...go a page or so back on the OC CB and take a look at a* couple of my posts....chill and have a good day...screw banning....kneecap em....


:2funny:

[GokuSSJ4]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

please tell me that you are joking with this remark.....

[Miss Evo8]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

please tell me that you are joking with this remark.....


I don't think so...Rich is stressed* :buck2:

[GokuSSJ4]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

please tell me that you are joking with this remark.....


I don't think so...Rich is stressed* :buck2:

why are you up already ? LOL
he hasnt had his 3 cups of coffee....

[Richard EVO]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.


I have no idea what you are talking about.* I have done nothing whatsoever to deserve "banning."

More to the point, banning me would make no sense.* I am exactly the kind of board member your sponsors want to reach.* I own 2 EVOs, one if which is heavily modified and taken to the racetrack frequently.* The other one is a daily driver that I traded an Audi S4 for.* In other words, I like EVOs so much I got rid of a $50,000 German sports sedan just so I could have 2 EVOs.

So I am a likely consumer of the performance parts and service, trackday events, and other EVO-related products your sponsors sell, and I can obviously afford them.* Moreover, I am a very likely purchaser of the EVO X once it is released here.

If you want to ban me, I think your sponsors might want an explanation.* :idiot2:

[Muellerized...]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

Please pop a couple Midol, take a deep breath, then continue to type. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and point of view, even in messageboardland. O0

[silvery_eagle]

wow.... all of the sudden John@rre has +1010 karma....
nice...
anyways... good luck and good job to the RRC crews O0

[GokuSSJ4]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

Please pop a couple Midol, take a deep breath, then continue to type. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and point of view, even in messageboardland. O0

thank you!!!

[Miss Evo8]

wow.... all of the sudden John@rre has +1010 karma....
nice...
anyways... good luck and good job to the RRC crews O0


He now has 1011 applauds O0

[Miss Evo8]

nj1266, RichardEvo...give me another reason to ban you both, please post in this thread again.

Please pop a couple Midol, take a deep breath, then continue to type. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and point of view, even in messageboardland. O0

thank you!!!


:? Goku isn't Midol one of your new sponsors?

[trinydex]

dude... the only one that could be takin' midol just pwned you goku... what are you gonna do?

[Miss Evo8]

If you want to ban me, I think your sponsors might want an explanation.* :idiot2:


LAAAAAAWWWWWLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!

[slider]

Rich let me make your day ...go a page or so back on the OC CB and take a look at a couple of my posts....chill and have a good day...screw banning....kneecap em....


Knee cap 'em THEN ban 'em.

[Muellerized...]

wow.... all of the sudden John@rre has +1010 karma....
nice...
anyways... good luck and good job to the RRC crews O0

He now has 1011 applauds O0

Pics for our fans to enjoy are located here, the first 3 are of Kent leading the Super Production race overall, holding off the 700+ horsepower tube frame cars:
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8923
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8921
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8922
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8929
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8925

[trinydex]

what are those other cars? they look like they're wearing fiberglass shells.

[Richard EVO]

Uuuhhhh, I think he said "700+ horsepower tube frame cars."

[trinydex]

that would be one description. i was thinking more on the lines of camaro, grand am etc...

[speedform]

Oooh, Kent got some nice air. Who says you need AWD?

[Muellerized...]

Who says you need AWD?

The people that have continued to get their ass kicked by our AWD grocery getter.

[Richard EVO]

Mmmmm... I think I'll go get some groceries in mine. Check out the article in the new Road & Track comparing the IX MR to the Cayman S that costs twice as much.

[Senshi]

sick pics it looks almost unreal that kent is racing against those cars, also it seems that ive seen more pics of kent racing on 2-3 wheels then ive seen him with all 4 wheels on the ground hehe O0

[trinydex]

makes you wonder how he can stay in the lead with so little grip in some corners hehehe... wonder what hte other cars are doin' there... (prolly slowin' down too much)

[Muellerized...]

makes you wonder how he can stay in the lead with so little grip in some corners
I have got 2 words for you, maintaining momentum.