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Dmoney
06-26-2006, 11:06 AM
I heard a very intense argument on the radio today...I believe it was 104.3? Anyways the Debate topic was "Should the Desecration of the U.S Flag Be Illegal?"

I will try to summerize word for word how the argument went. For those who heard this argument please chime in.

Woman: I believe its an infringmant of freedom of speech...Expression without prosecution. Burning the flag harms no one physically. Why should people be prosecuted for doing something that they believe? Thats what Americas is about Thats what freedom IS! Thats what seperates us From Every other Country?

Man: It harms no one but there is symbolism involved when descrating the U.S Flag...And to be Burned by an AMERICAN its VERY disrespectful. An NO this is not what the country is about!

Man: Let me ask you this...Do you think our ForeFathers who founded this country...do you think they would have allowed such Crazy Actions such as Burning the U.S flag?

Woman: Yes that is why they wrote the constitution! freedom of speech! expression without prosecution! That is why they have Checks and Balances!!

Man: (Interupts) SEE now your going on to a COMPLETELY different Subject! Just Answer the question! I want you to say "Yes our Forefathers wanted us to Burn the U.S Flag"

Woman: Yes our Forfathers wouldnt have LIKED us to burn...

Man: (Interupts) SEE Now your Changing your answer! You said early that such actions should be prohibated and now your saying they wouldnt have liked?

Woman: They wouldnt have liked us to do such actions but they would have not prosecuted anyone for it.

Man: Ok so then do you think they could have forseen such crazy actions happening today by americans?

Woman: Yes

Man: ok just making sure

Man: Now let me ask you What do you think our soldiers are going to think when they see AMERICANS burning The AMERICAN FLAG? Do you know how disrespectful that is to them? Do you know how that would make them feel?

Woman: Yes its disrespectful to the soldiers fighting BUT they are fighting for that Freedom! wether its used for good or bad there fighting for our freedom wether they like it or not.

Man: You know what they should do with people who burn the flag...

Woman: what is that

Man: I dont believe in jail time...they should deport them with whatever money they have...and they can never come back...

That pretty much sums up the argument...Just wanted to know your 02cents on the Debate that they discussed.

Absinthe
06-26-2006, 11:17 AM
well its technically illegal to wear the flag as well but that doesnt stop people

GokuSSJ4
06-26-2006, 11:30 AM
well its technically illegal to wear the flag as well but that doesnt stop people

is it bad to burn another country's flag?

ultraflip
06-26-2006, 11:55 AM
is it bad to burn another country's flag?

if you had a flag... i would burn it

silvery_eagle
06-26-2006, 12:22 PM
bah... maybe people just want to keep themselves warm by burning something?

Did the people who walked on May 1st event burn American flag?

Blaze
06-26-2006, 01:04 PM
I believe burning the flag and protesting at funerals shows extremely poor taste and judgement.

However, the people who support the protection of the flag do so largely as it's a symbol for freedom. So, ironically, forbidding it's desecration turns it's symbolism into an contradiction.

This whole thing comes at a time where the nation seems to not only be strugging with it's identity, but also in the mix of exercising a blind sense of nationalism.

I say it should be legal to light up. Go ahead and burn the flag if you believe it's a good idea. But watch your back, because there's a national somewhere who's waiting for an excuse to stomp your ass. And he/she won't stop when you quote "First Amendment". And that's a case of idealism meeting reality.

Blaze

Blaze
06-26-2006, 01:09 PM
...and you can't deport someone just because they have an opinion that isn't patriotic. That's insane. For christ sakes, the constitution also grants us the right to addemble, bear arms and essentially over through the government if it no longer serves the people.

That's a rather un-patriotic idea.

blkside
06-26-2006, 01:24 PM
Well being a firm supporter of the flag....namely ours...I do believe you should be able to burn the flag....BUT only when your flag is tattered and torn from flying it so much with pride. And in the prescribed manner. And for those who believe you should be able to burn it to demonstrate your freedom...dont do it in front of me cause as God as my witness I will feel much Freedom to stomp a mudhole in your ass...cause like the dumb botch said we are fighting for that freedom...so when you feel free enough to burn MY flag...bring your pansy gay ass rainbow wearing first amendment quoting babbling funeral demonstrating ass and EARN your right to run off at the mouth...

Blaze
06-26-2006, 01:28 PM
Well being a firm supporter of the flag....namely ours...I do believe you should be able to burn the flag....BUT only when your flag is tattered and torn from flying it so much with pride. And in the prescribed manner. And for those who believe you should be able to burn it to demonstrate your freedom...dont do it in front of me cause as God as my witness I will feel much Freedom to stomp a mudhole in your ass...cause like the dumb botch said we are fighting for that freedom...so when you feel free enough to burn MY flag...bring your pansy gay ass rainbow wearing first amendment quoting babbling funeral demonstrating ass and EARN your right to run off at the mouth...


hahaha....you illustrate my point precisely.

Now on a side note, what is the proper way to destroy a flag?
If I recall, you're supposed to cut the star patch off, before you dispose of it.
(I don't recall fire being in the ritual)

I'm sure I learned this in the cub scouts but it's long since been forgotten.

blkside
06-26-2006, 01:36 PM
There is an actual task assigned for this. I am not sure exactly where but I will look for it. I didnt think I would be upset about this post but when someone is using your blood sweat and tears and the deaths of those that surround you to base the reason why she is shitting on you and everything you stand for...its bulshit. I have morals and conviction no matter how far removed they may be from someone else's but there is 2 things you will not do in front of me (actions to family members excluded).. You will not burn a flag or hit a woman in my presence or with positive knowledge. It just isnt wise...because unlike some people who talk about the amendments...I have used one to my advantage...I LOVE THIS FUCKING COUNTRY...and for those of you that dont....BORDER JUMPING CAN GO BOTH WAYS!!!!!

blkside
06-26-2006, 01:45 PM
The Flag of the United States is often used in symbolic defacement, often in protest of the policies of the American government, both within the country and abroad.

In 1862, during the Union army's occupation of New Orleans in the American Civil War, the military governor, Benjamin Franklin Butler, sentenced a man to death for burning the U.S flag. Today, defacing a flag is an act of protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, as established in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).

After these decisions several "flag burning" amendments to the Constitution have been proposed. Any amendment to the US constitution must first be passed by congress and be ratified by a 75% super majority of 38 of the 50 states. On June 22, 2005, a flag burning amendment was passed by the House with the needed two thirds majority. As of June 16th the bill has been approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee. The full senate must pass it with a two thirds majority before it is sent to the states.

The United States Flag Code lists many guidelines for the use and display of the flag, many of which are largely ignored. For example:

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform"
The flag "should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper".
This distresses some who feel the flag should be treated with the utmost respect.

The ritualized burning of the American flag is considered an appropriate way to dispose of a damaged or soiled flag. According to The Flag Burning Page, "the American Legion and Boy Scouts burn thousands of flags every year in respectful retirement ceremonies".

For more information on the proposed Constitutional amendment to forbid flag desecretion, see Flag Burning Amendment.

This is just from Wikipedia....

EVOMANIAC
06-26-2006, 04:12 PM
How is it illegal to wear the American flag? We wear it on our military uniforms, is that illegal?

As for burning the American flag I fight for your Constitutional rights of freedom of speech, religion, expression blah, blah, blah. So go ahead and burn the flag, and when you do I will stomp a mudhole in your ass the size of Texas and then walk it dry. All the while exercising my First Ammendment Right: freedom of expression. Oh and if you dont like this country just read what blkside said "BOARDER JUMPING CAN GO BOTH WAYS!!!!"

blkside
06-26-2006, 04:43 PM
Its not illegal to wear the flag except for the following...

The United States Flag Code lists many guidelines for the use and display of the flag, many of which are largely ignored. For example:

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform"
The flag "should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper".

Macky
06-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Its not illegal to wear the flag except for the following...

The United States Flag Code lists many guidelines for the use and display of the flag, many of which are largely ignored. For example:

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform"
The flag "should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper".





well its technically illegal to wear the flag as well but that doesnt stop people


go figure. it can be as illegal as it can be to the letter, but when people wanna make a buck, everyone turns a blind eye.

i for one support the Flag and all it stands for. for crying out loud people out there are dying for this country, and the least we can all do is respect what represents the country.

i for one shat bricks back in the army when i almost dropped the flag during a flag lowering ceremony. the repercussions of letting as little as a tip of the flag touch the ground is unimaginable.

blkside
06-26-2006, 05:51 PM
Yeah I have seen grown men make superman dives for it...I myself have eaten gravel when the bearer fainted...its so bad that even unit colors dont touch the ground out of tradition and respect... Just something only the military I guess understands...

Macky
06-26-2006, 05:54 PM
Yeah I have seen grown men make superman dives for it...I myself have eaten gravel when the bearer fainted...its so bad that even unit colors dont touch the ground out of tradition and respect... Just something only the military I guess understands...


yes. grass. dirt. mud. ive seen NCO's under my command back then try and catch it like its a glass bowl containing God's own goldfish.

to most people its just a piece of cloth with colors and a design. in the field, it represents what you are fighting (and risk dying) for.

blkside
06-26-2006, 05:57 PM
Yeah and I got yours and a few other of these mo's on here in my wall locker...So I know 5 people showing up to one of the meets I go to...and unlike the dumb broad's comments that started this these mean a little more than the walmart flag..

Dagul
06-26-2006, 06:33 PM
Wow, the ignorance of our fellow countrymen/women.

What's sad is during my time in the navy I see these young seamen that don't give a shit about what morning and evening colors means. How careless they are when folding our flag... As eager as I was to drill them a new asshole for not being ceremonial during a simple task, I'd be quick to drill that lady a new asshole...

You're free to do what you want within the limits of the laws put in place, but be prepared to face the concequences of your actions.

As blkside put it, don't do that shit around around me...

wsEVO562
06-26-2006, 08:50 PM
Well being a firm supporter of the flag....namely ours...I do believe you should be able to burn the flag....BUT only when your flag is tattered and torn from flying it so much with pride. And in the prescribed manner. And for those who believe you should be able to burn it to demonstrate your freedom...dont do it in front of me cause as God as my witness I will feel much Freedom to stomp a mudhole in your ass...cause like the dumb botch said we are fighting for that freedom...so when you feel free enough to burn MY flag...bring your pansy gay ass rainbow wearing first amendment quoting babbling funeral demonstrating ass and EARN your right to run off at the mouth...


I agree with you to the fullest. Being a Marine VET, losing 18 of my friends, and my legs full of shrapnel now, coming home to see some one burn a flag at a funeral, or little lone anywhere in front of me I don't know what I would do... I'd probally go on an emotional rampage, trying to destroy everyone in their little flag burning rally.

Like you wrote in another post, I didn't think I'd get upset about this. But alot of people take this country for granted. Its a fuckin shame

Macky
06-26-2006, 08:54 PM
Well being a firm supporter of the flag....namely ours...I do believe you should be able to burn the flag....BUT only when your flag is tattered and torn from flying it so much with pride. And in the prescribed manner. And for those who believe you should be able to burn it to demonstrate your freedom...dont do it in front of me cause as God as my witness I will feel much Freedom to stomp a mudhole in your ass...cause like the dumb botch said we are fighting for that freedom...so when you feel free enough to burn MY flag...bring your pansy gay ass rainbow wearing first amendment quoting babbling funeral demonstrating ass and EARN your right to run off at the mouth...


I agree with you to the fullest. Being a Marine VET, losing 18 of my friends, and my legs full of shrapnel now, coming home to see some one burn a flag at a funeral, or little lone anywhere in front of me I don't know what I would do... I'd probally go on an emotional rampage, trying to destroy everyone in their little flag burning rally.

Like you wrote in another post, I didn't think I'd get upset about this. But alot of people take this country for granted. Its a fuckin shame


burning a flag at a soldier's funeral is just all kinds of wrong. i would probably go apeshit as well.

blkside
06-26-2006, 09:10 PM
Yeah you dont realize what you do or have done until it seems like someone shits on your progress.. I know for a fact that I am willing to go to jail to totally destroy some bastard burning a flag..I have 32" of tempered Extendable steel to make them rethink doing it again....lol

Dagul
06-26-2006, 09:19 PM
Yes, and some people call that a hasp... In my case, a 6 cell maglite will suffice...

blkside
06-26-2006, 09:33 PM
Yeah in the interest of the freedom we are protecting ...that Hasp stopped Hadji on more than one occasion...its amazing what a piece of black steel with do to the Psyche of someone....

Terry S
06-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Buring the flag thankfully is not against the law. This allows us to uphold the ideals set forth in the founding laws of our land.

HOWEVER, burning the flag is MOST DEFINITELY against COMMON SENSE, COMMON RESPECT, and COMMON CURTESY. If you feel some overwhelming desire to burn a flag, then make one up yourself and burn that. Have some respect for the majority of Americans (or fill in any nation) that understand there are certain situations that you should have respect for.

Fucking hippy, punker crackhead jackholes.

Terry S

nj1266
06-29-2006, 02:51 PM
Here is a question: If you had two choices to make either burn a flag or burn your EVO, which one would you burn? I just want to gauge the intensity of feeling about the flag.

Macky
06-29-2006, 02:54 PM
Here is a question: If you had two choices to make either burn a flag or burn your EVO, which one would you burn? I just want to gauge the intensity of feeling about the flag.


i would burn the person giving me the choice because i just dont see the justification in burning either. give me a good, logical reason to burn something and i will.

but just randomly giving a choice to either burn the US flag or an Evo without rhyme or reason is just idiotic.

Terry S
06-29-2006, 03:03 PM
Here is a question: If you had two choices to make either burn a flag or burn your EVO, which one would you burn? I just want to gauge the intensity of feeling about the flag.


i would burn the person giving me the choice because i just dont see the justification in burning either. give me a good, logical reason to burn something and i will.

but just randomly giving a choice to either burn the US flag or an Evo without rhyme or reason is just idiotic.


+1

Macky beat me to the punch.

But I'd probably burn my Evo if I reaaaaaaly had too. It would blow up & burn alot more entertaining than a flag would. Hell, i'd probably use the flag to light my car on fire.

Terry S

blkside
06-29-2006, 03:24 PM
There is no way I would burn either...I have guns...try to make me choose...thats not a legitimate question,...thats like giving you the choice to kill one of your kids

nj1266
06-29-2006, 03:32 PM
It is a hypothetical situation. Here is the situation. A group of people with big machine guns aimed at you give you the choice: either burn your EVO or burn the US flag or they will kill you. You do not have a gun and they are much physically stronger than you are.

What would you do? Burn the EVO, the flag or die.

j_nizzle
06-29-2006, 03:34 PM
im going to burn a member of the KKK right now...because, frankly, it's the only logical thing to do right now.

blkside
06-29-2006, 03:40 PM
theres 2 midgets that give you an option give them head or they will kill your mom ....what do you do.....this is pointless...I will burn the EVO..go get my gun and come back and kill them....now were even

blkside
06-29-2006, 03:42 PM
Why dont we keep this realistic not your hypothetical theories...this is about do you respect the flag enough to defend it....I DO

nj1266
06-29-2006, 03:49 PM
Ok, here is a better situation. Your son/daughter/mother/father is kidnapped. You have a huge flag in your front yard. The kidnappers can see you, but you cannot see them. Contacting the authortiess will immediately kill your kidnapped loved one. Here is there demand: Burn the flag in your front yard or your loved one will be killed. What will you do?

blkside
06-29-2006, 03:52 PM
Take away all your tom clancy novels cause you are clogging up this thread with hypothetical questions just to get the answer that someone would burn the flag. This is an adult conversation about the politics behind the law they were trying to pass and the respect for the flag. Quit posting these what ifs...thank you

nj1266
06-29-2006, 03:53 PM
Why dont we keep this realistic not your hypothetical theories...this is about do you respect the flag enough to defend it....I DO

I respect the flag...but given the choice, I will burn the flag and not my EVO. This is based on logic and not emotion. It will cost me $50 to get another great flag, but it will cost me 32.5K OTD to get another EVO.

blkside
06-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Ok well that is your opinion and like I said some hold the flag with the utmost...which is why this is my 3rd yearlong deployment. And the obvious question is who the hell is gonna hold you at gunpoint to burn the flag or your car... how about you just get carjacked and you sob in the flag.

Chris in SD
06-29-2006, 04:02 PM
This conversation is pretty stupid. I am waiting for the "You're dumb", "No, you're dumb", "No, your mom's dumb" to start... :roll:

nj1266
06-29-2006, 04:02 PM
Take away all your tom clancy novels cause you are clogging up this thread with hypothetical questions just to get the answer that someone would burn the flag. This is an adult conversation about the politics behind the law they were trying to pass and the respect for the flag. Quit posting these what ifs...thank you

Ok let us talk politics and law.

1. The Supreme Court has rule twice that flag burning is constitutional. It is basically the LAW that a person can burn the falf if they chose to. It is a form of prtected symbolic speach.

2. You have stated that you will commit an act of violence (beat someone up) because they burned a flag in front of you.

So basically, you are willing to brake the law, get sued by the yahoo who was burning the flag, spend time in jail, lose your job, pay out the nose in financial compenstion to the yahoo you beat up.

I really doubt that you are serious.

Chris in SD
06-29-2006, 04:04 PM
I bet he is serious. Most service members I know would do the same.... It's called patriotism - something this country is lacking lately.

blkside
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Well first you dont know me so that is a statement you make blindly. Second you are telling me that if some guy comes up to you and your mom and starts yelling and cussing in her face one inch away call her a whore slutbag you wouldnt do anything. He is demonstrating his freedom of speech so like I said you dont know me and there are many factors that dictate the outcome of a situation. So we can do this I think shit all day long...

nj1266
06-29-2006, 04:19 PM
Well first you dont know me so that is a statement you make blindly. Second you are telling me that if some guy comes up to you and your mom and starts yelling and cussing in her face one inch away call her a whore slutbag you wouldnt do anything. He is demonstrating his freedom of speech so like I said you dont know me and there are many factors that dictate the outcome of a situation. So we can do this I think shit all day long...


You said it in this Thread:


And for those who believe you should be able to burn it to demonstrate your freedom...dont do it in front of me cause as God as my witness I will feel much Freedom to stomp a mudhole in your ass...

Two totally different situations when it comes to my mom and the flag. The guy who comes up to my mom is threatening and about to attack her. So the law will be on my side if I defend my Mom. He is calling here names and verbally assaulting her. I have two options in this case: beat the crap out of him or have him arrested. I will choose the latter. I will take my mom to a safe secure place and call the cops and get the creep arrested.

In the case of the yahoo burning the flag, he is acting within the LAW. He is not breaking the LAW. So it is none of my business if he burns the flag or not.

blkside
06-29-2006, 04:27 PM
Thank you for pointing out that. I was totally in the wrong to claim violence on another person. I will make sure to play nice with others....lol

nj1266
06-29-2006, 04:28 PM
I bet he is serious. Most service members I know would do the same.... It's called patriotism - something this country is lacking lately.

I bet you that they will not do it. They will only beat the asshole who is burning the flag if they can get away with it. But if there are cops around the flag burner and one of the guys who say they will beat up the flag burner are actually around him, they will not beat him. They will be in so much trouble if they do, it is not even funny. They will be prosecuted not only in a state court for committing assault and battery, but also in federal court for violation of civil rights and liberties. They will go to jail, lose their job, a CRAP load of money and basically end up in the poor house.

Chris in SD
06-29-2006, 04:34 PM
That's only if there are photographers around... Most cops I know would pat me on the back as they got me out of there (and not to jail).

blkside
06-29-2006, 04:36 PM
Chris dont bother guy...this is turning into I dont think you would cause your afraid to get in trouble conversation. Its pointless...

gofaster87
06-29-2006, 04:37 PM
I bet he is serious. Most service members I know would do the same.... It's called patriotism - something this country is lacking lately.

I bet you that they will not do it. They will only beat the asshole who is burning the flag if they can get away with it. But if there are cops around the flag burner and one of the guys who say they will beat up the flag burner are actually around him, they will not beat him. They will be in so much trouble if they do, it is not even funny. They will be prosecuted not only in a state court for committing assault and battery, but also in federal court for violation of civil rights and liberties. They will go to jail, lose their job, a CRAP load of money and basically end up in the poor house.


I have seen someone sock someone in the head in front of a cop during a protest againts troops overseas and the cop turned his head. Most of the cops I know are former military and support others that are patriotic. People that have balls dont only do things if they can get away with it. That is the difference between you and others, some value their beliefs and patriotism over the consequences they suffer. Id rather be in dire straits than give up my morals and beliefs. A world full of sheeple is no world to live in.

nj1266
06-29-2006, 04:54 PM
I bet he is serious. Most service members I know would do the same.... It's called patriotism - something this country is lacking lately.

I bet you that they will not do it. They will only beat the asshole who is burning the flag if they can get away with it. But if there are cops around the flag burner and one of the guys who say they will beat up the flag burner are actually around him, they will not beat him. They will be in so much trouble if they do, it is not even funny. They will be prosecuted not only in a state court for committing assault and battery, but also in federal court for violation of civil rights and liberties. They will go to jail, lose their job, a CRAP load of money and basically end up in the poor house.


I have seen someone sock someone in the head in front of a cop during a protest againts troops overseas and the cop turned his head. Most of the cops I know are former military and support others that are patriotic. People that have balls dont only do things if they can get away with it. That is the difference between you and others, some value their beliefs and patriotism over the consequences they suffer. Id rather be in dire straits than give up my morals and beliefs. A world full of sheeple is no world to live in.

You generalize about cops too much. If a guy told a cop that someone beat him up for NO reason at all aside from burning the flag and that guy HAD wittnesses and the cop wittnessed the act, then the cop has no choice but to book the guy. There are wittnesses, there is evidence, and the cop saw the crime. The cop will not risk not arressting the guy who committed the crime.

So now I am not patriotic because I do NOT want to break law by beating someone up who has the LEGAL right to burn the flag? But it is patriotic to break the law by beating someone up who was exercising their civil rights? That is one wierd defenition of patriotism.

blkside
06-29-2006, 04:59 PM
You know what patriotism is? Why dont you enlighten me there superman.... I am curious to know what you do that you can sit here and tell people you dont know that they wont do what they say they will...

nj1266
06-29-2006, 05:04 PM
You know what patriotism is? Why dont you enlighten me there superman.... I am curious to know what you do that you can sit here and tell people you dont know that they wont do what they say they will...

Upholding the Constitution of the United States as interpreted by the Supreme Court is patriotic. Do you like this definition? The SCOTUS decided back in 89 and then in 90 that burning the flag is constitutional free speech. I may not like that act and I will not burn the flag, but I will NOT deny others their rights to burn the flag. That is patriotic. Beating someone up who burned the flag and breaking the law and violating the constitution is not patriotic.

blkside
06-29-2006, 05:12 PM
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

nj1266
06-29-2006, 05:21 PM
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

It is not up to you or me to define what is correct or not correct. Burning the flag is LEGAL free speech. That is what the SCOTUS said and it is the court that interprets the Constitution and not you or me.

Please do not bring Iraq into this just to muddy the waters. Americans choose to express their patriotism in various ways. Some join the military and go to Iraq, others uphold the Constitution and live by its principles. I choose the latter.

blkside
06-29-2006, 05:24 PM
Well I think I have every right to bring up Iraq....seeing I am sitting on the soil right now... My point wasnt to say you were wrong..my point is that YOU do not speak for everyone or their actions. Me personally I would hit the person who was in my family members face. But to each their own. I completely understand it is legal... I speak english pretty well. I also understand that some peoples convictions and belief make the law a lil "muddy" to them when it is that important. It was nice talking to you... Have a nice day...Drive safe.

gofaster87
06-29-2006, 05:43 PM
There are too many pussies and panty waists/wastes on this site.

Chris in SD
06-29-2006, 05:53 PM
There are too many pussies and panty waists/wastes on this site.


Amen to that...

When I get back, some of them can test the theory and burn the flag in front of me. I'll have some Advil for you when you wake up...

blkside
06-29-2006, 06:02 PM
Hey Chris I have 2 Asp's...wanna borrow one...they work real well trust me... I think you meant midol instead of Advil....lol

Chris in SD
06-29-2006, 06:43 PM
Sam and I don't need Asps... I have one anyway ;)

O0 to the Midol comment

blkside
06-29-2006, 06:46 PM
well I always have a spare in case anyone needs one for those off the cuff ass whoopings... I need to get one of those police tazers...now that shit would be funny....taze someone in a quick "walkby"

Blaze
06-29-2006, 06:50 PM
There are too many pussies and panty waists/wastes on this site.


WTH?

I rather expected Sam to say that flag burning is gay.

I'll never finish 'The Book of Sam' at this rate.

Help me out, buddy!

:2funny:

Blaze

blkside
06-29-2006, 06:54 PM
Yeah it all got out of control when that guy started asking if they kidnapped your family and made you burn the flag...or burn EVO or flag....it was retarded.....lol

Blaze
06-29-2006, 07:21 PM
Yeah it all got out of control when that guy started asking if they kidnapped your family and made you burn the flag...or burn EVO or flag....it was retarded.....lol


WTH?

Whomever that is is lucky I'm too lazy to click back a few threads. lol

blkside
06-29-2006, 07:26 PM
Well let me help you out there blaze....
From Me
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

From nj1266
It is not up to you or me to define what is correct or not correct. Burning the flag is LEGAL free speech. That is what the SCOTUS said and it is the court that interprets the Constitution and not you or me.
Please do not bring Iraq into this just to muddy the waters. Americans choose to express their patriotism in various ways. Some join the military and go to Iraq, others uphold the Constitution and live by its principles. I choose the latter.

blkside
06-29-2006, 09:00 PM
Patriotism....this is where the freedom comes from ...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/DCP_2471.jpg

Macky
06-29-2006, 09:30 PM
id like to see someone take that flag from that pilot and burn it in front of him, just to test the "freedom of speech" clause.

it will also be his freedom of speech to lecture that said person in the ways of flag respect.

blkside
06-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Thats actually a pic of the flag I did for Rich...I try to get pics of everyones flag so I can give it to them...I have yours too but it is slow as hell to upload pics...I am lazy but I will have it for you

nj1266
06-29-2006, 10:22 PM
Well let me help you out there blaze....
From Me
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

What are you implying? Are you saying that only those who serve in the military are patriotic? If that is your definition of patriotism then the overwhelming majority of Americans are NOT patriotic since they have NOT served in the military?

wsEVO562
06-29-2006, 10:40 PM
What are you implying? Are you saying that only those who serve in the military are patriotic? If that is your definition of patriotism then the overwhelming majority of Americans are NOT patriotic since they have NOT served in the military?



SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY ON HERE GIVES A SHIT WHAT YOUR SAYING.

Macky
06-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Well let me help you out there blaze....
From Me
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

What are you implying? Are you saying that only those who serve in the military are patriotic? If that is your definition of patriotism then the overwhelming majority of Americans are NOT patriotic since they have NOT served in the military?


he is not defining patriots/patriotism as being only the people who served in the military. rather, he is defining the soldiers as patriots - which they are. he did not say that just because you did not serve means you are not a patriot. you are giving your own definition to what he is saying.

what the topic of debate here is not just the legality of burning a flag, but how come so many defend their actions of burning it behind the "freedom of speech" argument.

just because it is not legally wrong in the justice system to burn the US flag doesnt make it "right". and hiding this behind the clause of "freedom of speech" is contrary and ironic because you have that "freedom" to choose to burn it because of the men and women who swear under oath to defend that said flag and all it represents. the very same men and women you are butting heads with because for them, that flag and what it stands for is what they risk their very lives for. a selfless act, that some in the armed services do for a piece of cloth with stitches and colors.

without those patriots in the front line defending the "freedom" you now enjoy, you will not have that "freedom of speech" to freely burn that flag. think about it. you can debate all day and say that it is not illegal per se to burn the US flag, and even have the legal proof to back it up.

but what would be your motivation? what will you get out of proving that burning a flag isnt illegal? what the general public will see in you is someone who fits the description of a non-patriot. of course that would be another argument altogether, with you trying to prove that you are.

but who will believe you? you contradict yourself thru your actions. if you consider yourself a patriot, why support flag burning? again just because its legal doesnt make it right - from a patriot's point of view.

Thero
06-29-2006, 10:49 PM
Ok So I know I'm late to the table with the original post but I will say this.


I think its disrespectful to be burning the flag of the United States. Or any Flag for that matter of any country because it is a symbol for that paticular country. I also would like to add I agree with the gentleman that said to use there money and deport them. Seriously if you dont like what this country is doing and want to burn the flag go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you to be here. Thats right pack up your belongings and go. Its just like a job. You might not feel good about what a company is doing and decide to quit but guess what. You quit and they dont care. You can be replaced and they have people lined up that want to take over. So in this case it would be "You dont like what our country is doing and have to burn the flag? Then leave because we will have someone from another country come here and take your place and enjoy the freedoms that you take for granted."

Just my 02cents however.

nj1266
06-29-2006, 11:26 PM
Well let me help you out there blaze....
From Me
Well I am absolutely impressed at your knowledge of law....and now let me school you on patriotism. Just look at the numbers here....These are patriots that give you the right to have that freedom of speech and the men and women who gave their lives to defend your freedom. So you may be correct it is not illegal to burn a flag but that does not make it correct. So the next time you start all these hypothetical situations just think of the 2000+ who have died to give you that right... http://icasualties.org/oif/

What are you implying? Are you saying that only those who serve in the military are patriotic? If that is your definition of patriotism then the overwhelming majority of Americans are NOT patriotic since they have NOT served in the military?


he is not defining patriots/patriotism as being only the people who served in the military. rather, he is defining the soldiers as patriots - which they are. he did not say that just because you did not serve means you are not a patriot. you are giving your own definition to what he is saying.

what the topic of debate here is not just the legality of burning a flag, but how come so many defend their actions of burning it behind the "freedom of speech" argument.

just because it is not legally wrong in the justice system to burn the US flag doesnt make it "right". and hiding this behind the clause of "freedom of speech" is contrary and ironic because you have that "freedom" to choose to burn it because of the men and women who swear under oath to defend that said flag and all it represents. the very same men and women you are butting heads with because for them, that flag and what it stands for is what they risk their very lives for. a selfless act, that some in the armed services do for a piece of cloth with stitches and colors.

without those patriots in the front line defending the "freedom" you now enjoy, you will not have that "freedom of speech" to freely burn that flag. think about it. you can debate all day and say that it is not illegal per se to burn the US flag, and even have the legal proof to back it up.

but what would be your motivation? what will you get out of proving that burning a flag isnt illegal? what the general public will see in you is someone who fits the description of a non-patriot. of course that would be another argument altogether, with you trying to prove that you are.

but who will believe you? you contradict yourself thru your actions. if you consider yourself a patriot, why support flag burning? again just because its legal doesnt make it right - from a patriot's point of view.


Actually he is defining patriotism. He was responding to my post where I gave my definition. I gave him my definition, ie, patriotism is living based on the values embodied in the Constitution as interpreted by the SCOTUS. He said that he wanted to school me of patriotism and how the soldiers who died in Iraq are the patriots. I want to know if others are excluded. You say he did not mean it that way. Let us wait for his response.

The essence of Freedom is choice and making a choice that is not harmful to others. How does it harm you if someone burned HIS flag? Is it your property? NO. If he burns YOUR flag, then that is a problem since the flag is your property. Then you have every right to take him to court and make him pay for his crime.

You and others claim that the military is defending my freedom in Iraq, yet I am not allowed to exercise my freedom by burning my OWN flag on my own property or in the public square? How can someone claim that they are defending my freedom by restricting it? I am free to burn my books, the Constitution, my clothing IF I am not harming/endangering others or destroying their property. So why Can't I destroy my flag? Is that not a contradiction? Or is my freedom only defined by what is acceptable to those who serve in the military. If as you claim the military is protecting my freedom in Iraq, then allow me to exercise said freedom. Support what you say you support.

The SCOTUS said that this is an inherent 1st amendment right, a right of FREEDOM. You say that the military is protecting my freedom. I say HOORAY for the military, but prove it to me by not beating me up when you see me burning the flag. You are the one who is contradicting what you say and not me. On the one hnad you say that you protect my freedom, then you turn around and want to beat me up when I prctice said freedom!!!

Mind you I do not and will burn the flag, but I will not deny others that right by participating in acts of violence against them. If someone wants to burn the flag, it is their right under the US Constitution. Until the Const is amended I will continue to support a person's right to burn the flag.

Chris in SD
06-30-2006, 03:13 AM
With you falling back on Supreme Court rulings all the time, the point here is clear: YOU are looking at the issue as a LEGAL aspect, while blkside is looking at it as a matter of PRINCIPLE. When it comes to the flag, Mom, human rights, etc., I go by the matter of principle.

Macky
06-30-2006, 07:52 AM
With you falling back on Supreme Court rulings all the time, the point here is clear: YOU are looking at the issue as a LEGAL aspect, while blkside is looking at it as a matter of PRINCIPLE. When it comes to the flag, Mom, human rights, etc., I go by the matter of principle.


+1


nj,

you dont seem to get our point. WHO CARES if you can prove that it is legal to burn the flag now? You keep blabbering about legal articles over and over and over again.

while the legal aspect is what the current justice system is all about, we all know from experience that just because the justice system wins doesnt mean that it is always right - its just a technicality.

like the rest of the military guys here and coming from that line myself, i would also go by principle. condemn me/us if you want should we beat someone up by burning the flag in front of us. heck, scream bloody murder if you want to. so what if i do time or whatnot. id pick that over not being able to sleep at night if i had the chance to set things straight according to what i believe is right.

but lets play your twisted scenario again this time: what if they were burning the flag on MY property? now they would be both pissing on my principles and my property. should i stomp him (or you, whomever is burning the damn flag) another asshole and does that make it against the law?

you proved your point and so have the rest of us. you keep harping about the legal aspect of this and we see this as a matter of our principles. its up to you if you want to keep digging up notes and quotes from the justice system.

nj1266
06-30-2006, 08:21 AM
Macky,

Let me get this straight. You and others being against flag burning and wanting to commit an act of violence against someone who does is based on PRINCIPLE, but believing in the values and ideals embodied in the Constitution like I do is a TECHNICALITY!!!!

Why isn't my position a matter of principle as well? When is believing in the Constitution of the US and specifically in the first 10 amendments become a TECHNICALITY?

Is the US flag more important to you than the US Constitution?

Terry S
06-30-2006, 08:33 AM
*snip* The essence of Freedom is choice and making a choice that is not harmful to others. *snip*


Incorrect.

Terry S

Terry S
06-30-2006, 08:35 AM
Macky,

Let me get this straight. You and others being against flag burning and wanting to commit an act of violence against someone who does is based on PRINCIPLE, but believing in the values and ideals embodied in the Constitution like I do is a TECHNICALITY!!!!

Why isn't my position a matter of principle as well? When is believing in the Constitution of the US and specifically in the first 10 amendments become a TECHNICALITY?

Is the US flag more important to you than the US Constitution?


Because your not quoting a constitutional amendment. Your citing case law which took place several hundred years after the writing of the constitution. Thats why your argument is a technicality.

Terry S

Macky
06-30-2006, 08:39 AM
Macky,

Let me get this straight. You and others being against flag burning and wanting to commit an act of violence against someone who does is based on PRINCIPLE, but believing in the values and ideals embodied in the Constitution like I do is a TECHNICALITY!!!!

Why isn't my position a matter of principle as well? When is believing in the Constitution of the US and specifically in the first 10 amendments become a TECHNICALITY?

Is the US flag more important to you than the US Constitution?


no you do not get my point. believing in the US Constitution is a TECHNICALITY because we are on US soil. if i were in Israel, then the US Constitution isnt a Technicality for me.

let me make it clearer to you since you like to add your own little schemes.


I support the Constitution.

I am a law-abiding citizen.

I do not support flag burning as a matter of principle.

I will kick your ass if you burned the US flag in front of me to mock me/mock the flag.



Your position is not a matter of principle to me because at this point i just refuse to believe you have that principle by the way you continue to argue this point altogether. get pissed all you want, in my opinion i just think you arent patriotic.


you still didnt answer my hypothetical question about the stranger who decides to burn the US flag on my property.

blkside
06-30-2006, 08:42 AM
Okay let me explain this so you clearly understand me. You spend so much time worrying what the SCROTUM .....sorry SCOTUS says let me explain this to you so this doesnt last forever...
*I am a patriot because for 9 years I have done my job on home soil and abroad so you tree hugging flag burning asses can run your mouth. I am not saying that military personnel are the only patriots. I was a patriot at 11 years old during the 1st gulf war when I wrote to soldiers. My soldiers grandmother is a patriot for getting a bunch of seniors together to make neck gaitors. You can not stand on US soil and claim to be a patriot while supporting the burning of the flag that you "have respect for". I dont care what the law says. You have proven through your "support of flag burning" that YOU....are not a patriot regardless of what the law may say. There are people here who have convinctions and principle. You are a fucking sheep. You are the person with the "Support the Troops" magnet on your car but havent done shit. I am tired of talking about this because your cut and paste defense is lacking personal conviction. You are clogging a thread with nonsense...go back to your desk and google personal conviction....

Lets talk about the consitution real quick...it was written a couple of hundred years ago when there were PATRIOTS that never mentioned the fucking stupidity of flag burning...You wanna burn something GO BURN YOUR BRA.

nj1266
06-30-2006, 08:59 AM
*snip* The essence of Freedom is choice and making a choice that is not harmful to others. *snip*


Incorrect.

Terry S


Why?

nj1266
06-30-2006, 09:03 AM
Macky,

Let me get this straight. You and others being against flag burning and wanting to commit an act of violence against someone who does is based on PRINCIPLE, but believing in the values and ideals embodied in the Constitution like I do is a TECHNICALITY!!!!

Why isn't my position a matter of principle as well? When is believing in the Constitution of the US and specifically in the first 10 amendments become a TECHNICALITY?

Is the US flag more important to you than the US Constitution?


Because your not quoting a constitutional amendment. Your citing case law which took place several hundred years after the writing of the constitution. Thats why your argument is a technicality.

Terry S


The case law is based on the First Amendment to the US Constitution. Believing in the First Amendment of the US Constitution IS a matter of principle and NOT a technicality.

nj1266
06-30-2006, 09:19 AM
Macky,

Let me get this straight. You and others being against flag burning and wanting to commit an act of violence against someone who does is based on PRINCIPLE, but believing in the values and ideals embodied in the Constitution like I do is a TECHNICALITY!!!!

Why isn't my position a matter of principle as well? When is believing in the Constitution of the US and specifically in the first 10 amendments become a TECHNICALITY?

Is the US flag more important to you than the US Constitution?


no you do not get my point. believing in the US Constitution is a TECHNICALITY because we are on US soil. if i were in Israel, then the US Constitution isnt a Technicality for me.

let me make it clearer to you since you like to add your own little schemes.


I support the Constitution.

I am a law-abiding citizen.

I do not support flag burning as a matter of principle.

I will kick your ass if you burned the US flag in front of me to mock me/mock the flag.



Your position is not a matter of principle to me because at this point i just refuse to believe you have that principle by the way you continue to argue this point altogether. get pissed all you want, in my opinion i just think you arent patriotic.


you still didnt answer my hypothetical question about the stranger who decides to burn the US flag on my property.


Here is what you do not get:

1. The first amendment of the Constitution grants people on US soil the right to free speech.
2. The SCOTUS IS the highest court that interprets the Constitution. That is the way the founders designed it.
3. When SCOTUS makes a decision it becomes part of Constitutional law. Basically, it is as good as the Constitution itself.

I believe in the FIRST AMENDMENT, it includes the right to burn a flag. Thus it becomes a matter of principle and not a technicality.

I bet that you or anyone else here will NOT dare beat someone up who was burning the flag on their property while being VIDEOD and the cops around. You will be in so much trouble, it is not even funny. Talk on the internet is very cheap.

If a person decides to burn a flag on your property, then they are trespassing and you can have them arressted and put in jail. Property is the key here. If someone burnd YOUR flag on HIS property you can also have them arressted for theft and destruction of your property.

nj1266
06-30-2006, 09:30 AM
Okay let me explain this so you clearly understand me. You spend so much time worrying what the SCROTUM .....sorry SCOTUS says let me explain this to you so this doesnt last forever...
I am a patriot because for 9 years I have done my job on home soil and abroad so you tree hugging flag burning asses can run your mouth. I am not saying that military personnel are the only patriots. I was a patriot at 11 years old during the 1st gulf war when I wrote to soldiers. My soldiers grandmother is a patriot for getting a bunch of seniors together to make neck gaitors. You can not stand on US soil and claim to be a patriot while supporting the burning of the flag that you "have respect for". I dont care what the law says. You have proven through your "support of flag burning" that YOU....are not a patriot regardless of what the law may say. There are people here who have convinctions and principle. You are a fucking sheep. You are the person with the "Support the Troops" magnet on your car but havent done shit. I am tired of talking about this because your cut and paste defense is lacking personal conviction. You are clogging a thread with nonsense...go back to your desk and google personal conviction....

Lets talk about the consitution real quick...it was written a couple of hundred years ago when there were PATRIOTS that never mentioned the fucking stupidity of flag burning...You wanna burn something GO BURN YOUR BRA.

Sorry, your definition of patriotism is different than mine. You define patriotism through the military and the flag I define it by living by the principles and values embodied in the US Constitution as interpreted by SCOTUS.

I do not support flag burning, I support freedom of speech which includes the right to burn the flag. That is what you do not get.

You claim that the military is fighting in Iraq for our freedom, yet when someone decides to exercise this freedom by burning the flag you cry foul and you want to beat the crap out of them. That is the biggest contradiction of ALL. If you are really fighting for our freedom, then why shouldn't some who chose to burn the flag exercise it? Should we only exercise freedoms that military believes are worthwhile?

You have no idea about my personal convictions. Suffice to say that I have been jailed (not in the US) and recieved death threats for my personal convictions. How about that for conviction? There are other ways to show personal conviction than serving in the military.

I do not wear a bra, it is too restrictive :-)

Terry S
06-30-2006, 09:40 AM
*snip*
2. The SCOTUS IS the highest court that interprets the Constitution. That is the way the founders designed it.
*snip*


The Supreme Court was not created to be the supreme interpreter of the Constitution until the early 1800's.

Terry S

Terry S
06-30-2006, 09:42 AM
*snip* The essence of Freedom is choice and making a choice that is not harmful to others. *snip*


Incorrect.

Terry S


Why?


You forgot a very specific word in your statement that would make it correct.

*snip* The essence of Freedom is choice and making a choice that is not unnecessarily harmful to others. *snip*

Harming others is not bad and not against the ideal of freedom.

Terry S

Absinthe
06-30-2006, 09:43 AM
One cannot both claim support the constitution and it stands for and use physical violence to limit another citizens free speach these ideas are in conflict.

that is all.

Absinthe
06-30-2006, 09:46 AM
Harming others is not bad and not against the ideal of freedom.

Terry S


however if that harm causes the limitation of someone elses freedom then you are upposed to the general principal of freedom and infavor solely of your personal freedom. this is a circular argument, i just had my ass kicked at it twice by con. lawyers on different sides of the argument. this group is arguing opinions and interpretation you should all just go home becuase none of you are 100% right and none are 100% wrong, and let me tell you what your chances of changing eachothers minds are.

Terry S
06-30-2006, 09:50 AM
I believe in the FIRST AMENDMENT, it includes the right to burn a flag. Thus it becomes a matter of principle and not a technicality.


Ok, I think I can agree with you that having constitutional law as a belief system (kinda crazy, but there are worse. i.e. christianity, etc.) would make it a principle for you and not a technicality. I think Macky was referring to it as a technicality because your referencing a legal belief and not a moral belief. But yea, they're one in the same I guess.

But I still have to say, that if someone wants to kick someones ass for burning a flag and spend a night in jail, then that is most definitely a semi-extreme interpretation of patriotism. And it isn't faulted logic either since the person would accept the results of the action.

Terry S

Terry S
06-30-2006, 09:54 AM
Harming others is not bad and not against the ideal of freedom.

Terry S


however if that harm causes the limitation of someone elses freedom then you are upposed to the general principal of freedom and infavor solely of your personal freedom. this is a circular argument, i just had my ass kicked at it twice by con. lawyers on different sides of the argument. this group is arguing opinions and interpretation you should all just go home becuase none of you are 100% right and none are 100% wrong, and let me tell you what your chances of changing eachothers minds are.


Some people should have their freedom limited. So imposing justified harm on someone is not opposing the general principle of freedom.

And before you mention it, yes there are standards for deciding when its justified: the legal system, human morality, instances of accidents, and self defence.

Terry S

Absinthe
06-30-2006, 09:56 AM
never mind leaving this alone

Terry S
06-30-2006, 10:07 AM
never mind leaving this alone


Been there, done that, not worth the effort kinda thing?

Terry S

blkside
06-30-2006, 10:35 AM
This is gonna go back and forth. I am gonna leave it at this. It is Legal to burn the flag. It is not right but it is still legal. I believe by burning the flag you are demonstrating the fact that you are not a patriot. Law does not dictate the definitions of a patriot, Your actions do. On the same note it is naive of you to think that because you wont defend your beliefs that there arent others that will. I am not talking about going to someone's home and kicking there door down....but dont be outside my job picketing and burning a flag..>THAT IS MY POINT...

Dmoney
06-30-2006, 10:38 AM
Dont Burn or Support Burning the Flag That they Covered my Cousins Casket with when they burried him.....That is all

A Fellow Soldier and A Cousin RIP

Miss Evo8
06-30-2006, 10:41 AM
There are too many pussies and panty waists/wastes on this site.


:D

+1

rammsteinmatt
06-30-2006, 11:10 AM
burning the flag isnt just burning another piece of cotton on nylon, the flag actually stands for something. real heroes are willing to risk their lives and die for this "piece of cloth" every day because to them its worth more that just the face value.

although it is technically legal to burn a flag it is not morally correct, and doing so is a big slap in the face to anyone in the military, past and present.

nj1266
06-30-2006, 01:19 PM
burning the flag isnt just burning another piece of cotton on nylon, the flag actually stands for something. real heroes are willing to risk their lives and die for this "piece of cloth" every day because to them its worth more that just the face value.

although it is technically legal to burn a flag it is not morally correct, and doing so is a big slap in the face to anyone in the military, past and present.

I agree with you, but I do not have the right to prevent others from doing it. I do not have the right to beat them up if they do it on their property or in the public square. Would I do it? NO, but if others want to do it, then that is their right under the US Constitution. If I see someone burning HIS flag in the public square, I will simply walk away. I will not threaten him or commist an act of violence agains him.

NipponHamFighters
06-30-2006, 03:42 PM
I believe that people should have a right to have American Pride, but honestly being a 4th Generation "Asian" American I still am not considered a true American. I would say I am an honorary American, like you can say an Honorary Bat boy. I am politcally correctly labeled. I have studied and majored in History and Politcal Science and we have a long way to go, there is so much hatred still for minorities, but just better hidden since the public wants to deny that discrimination still exists. So for some people burnig a flag that is still not meant for them seems perfectly fine, while the TRUE US Armed Forces still on duty or veteran would never think of doing such a harmful act to the US flag. Many people have fought and died for American rights, but who do they reserve these rights for? Our ancestors reserved them for who? And today who are we reserving the rights for now?

Still love this quote in my mutlicultural communication 300 class from a girl (caucasian girl), "There is no such thing as discrimination, Chinese, Blacks, Mexicans, Whites and Indians are all the same."

HAHA Won't even point out the flaws in that one!

FaLLeNAn9eL
07-06-2006, 01:05 PM
the whole flag burning thing is pretty weird. i heard that the proper way of disposing of an unwanted flag was to burn it, but its against the law. so how do u properly throw away a flag once its worn out?

blkside
07-06-2006, 01:11 PM
You do burn the flag IN A CEREMONY. You remove a star from the flag...fold it into a triangle and burn it with other flags. Its about respect..this was about the people who burn and spit on it in the

sgtbadazzwife
07-08-2006, 06:50 PM
Yep the flag gets burned in a retirement ceremony.

Flag burning should be a crime. It should hold a very harsh punishment.

nlakind
08-12-2006, 12:27 PM
my problem with this endless debate is basically that it is fucking pointless. the flag is a piece of fabric. fuck the symbolism. most flags are not even made in america. they are made by wage slaves in thailand. our legislators should spend more time worrying about issues like aids in africa and civil war in aouth america. just make the flag out of non-flammable material and flag burning wont be a problem.

blkside
08-12-2006, 02:16 PM
Well your intelligence is very limited because you are right it is a piece of fabric but if you "fuck the symbolism" you are saying that what it stands for isnt important. I am not here to argue a fact.. I am here to point out that aids in africa and civil war in south america is the least important thing with 30 million homeless and a hundreds of thousands of children in need of a home.. Oh but by the post you made you have no interest in what happens in this country....