tuning with safc2, zeitronix wideband and pocketlogger

[lagcisco]

i've been reading some of these tutorials on tuning but none seem to mention tuning with a wideband so I dont know how different things should be when using that..

can someone point me in the right direction?

I have Zeitronix datalogger with boost/egt/afr sensors, palm with pocketlogger and an safc2

[Blak94GSX]

The wideband helps to speed up the process a bit. Use the ZT2 logger and adjust the SAFC HI map so the AFR is 11.4 from 4000-7500 at 20PSI. Then adjust the whole fuel map up or down until the timing curve looks the best.

[blkside]

Hey Scott can you suggest reading material to learn more about tuning... I am reading "How to tune an EMS" right now and need more reading...

[DTunedEvoX]

Hell I wish I had a wideband to tune with lol

[kimletrim]

Hell I wish I had a wideband to tune with lol


Hell, wish I had something to tune!

[GokuSSJ4]

Hell I wish I had a wideband to tune with lol


Hell, wish I had something to tune!

then get one! it makes things a lot easier...

[lagcisco]

so once I have that nice linear AFR at 11.4 how do the other readings affect this?

such as EGTs and timing?

all the tutorials i've seen mention narrow band voltages and timing, narrrow band is obvious replaced with wideband in my case, do I still need to worry about timing?

[Blak94GSX]

Just replace the .94 narrowband part with 11.4 on the wideband. Everything else is the same.

[krillin]

lagcisco, what mods are you running right now?

personally, i think running 11.4 is a little lean for pump gas. what i'd suggest is tuning ur safc so that you have a nice consistent AFR curve at around 10.9-11.1 in 3rd gear @WOT (to be safe). make sure your EGT's are in check (i like to keep my EGT below 870C). once you get your AFR and EGT dialed in, log a few 3rd gear pulls back to back using ur laptop (zt-2) and ur logger (pocketlogger). check your pocketlogger and see if you get any drops in timing and adjust accordingly based on what you see in your AFR graph. lean where you think you need to lean, and richen where you think you need to richen.

i dunno, this is how i've been doing it lately and it seems to work pretty well.

[Crash]

lagcisco, what mods are you running right now?

11.4 is safe on 91. i ran 11.7 on 19 psi of kenne bell boost on my stang and I am a well known tuner in the Ford community. I tune for B&D Racing in Canoga Park and we have probably done every other ford model of car with every type of tuning device including custom flashes, piggy back and stand alone systems. I think 10 anything is too rich and low 10's can cause oil fouling on your rings which will lead to premature wear. The throttle response and high load/open loop drivability alone going from 10.5 to 11.5 is dramatic on the cars I tune. The cars pull smoother, the dyno graphs are straighter so the motor definately likes it.

Krillen, are you adding fuel to fight against knock sensor pulling timing? Is there a piggy back like the safc that can alter timing at various loads and/or rpm or is that stand alone/flash only for the 4g63? Let me know if I am wrong but if your car pings or knock sensor is pulling mad timing and your air fuel is 11.4, you have too much timing at that load/rpm on you timing map. I dont know how the computer works on the evos but fords have a few functions that can be modifed via flash tuning to add/pull timing and fuel based on ect and iat temps. This allows the tuner to get alot closer to the edge knowing if conditions change, the tune will compensate and hopefully doesnt trigger knock. We can even controll how much timing is pulled at various loads and rpms, how much is added givin no knock at all, turn off knock sensors alltogether (my favorite!). ok I am going waayyy off subject!

I guess a stand alone or custom flash is the only way to get it right :0 I will definatly get a safc first since boltons are all I have for the near future.

[Blaze]

Hey Scott can you suggest reading material to learn more about tuning... I am reading "How to tune an EMS" right now and need more reading...


Join the AEM forum.
There is a lot of excellent information there on this subject.

O0

[Blaze]

Everything is realative.

Without going into specifics, the way I generally tune is such:

1. Use a wide band to establish a flat AFR. Ideally on 91, you'll want to keep it between 10.8 and 11.2.

2. While tuning your AFR (and always) watch your EGTs. If you see it getting close to 900c, things are getting hot and you'll want to back off a bit.

3. Once you have your AFR stable start monitoring your knock and or timing. If you don't have a knock sensor you can "assume" knock by logging your timing curve. If you see prolonged flat spots or if it decreases anywhere after your boost has stabilized, you can bet you have some degree of knock.

Adjust your AFR accordingly. Note: You can use the narrow band from the logger to decide which way you need to go (rich or lean), then clean it up with the wide band as you round out the tune.

Timing is not always consistant. But should rougly start around 5 @ 3800 and climb to 17-20 @ 7400 (depending on mods and the environment).

Hope that helps some.

Blaze



so once I have that nice linear AFR at 11.4 how do the other readings affect this?

such as EGTs and timing?

all the tutorials i've seen mention narrow band voltages and timing, narrrow band is obvious replaced with wideband in my case, do I still need to worry about timing?

[blkside]

I have been reading the hell out of the Book and I understand it.. I have been messing with cars for a while.... undertand AFR and rich and lean but I havent seen a map where timing is being pulled... Does it look like a drop in horsepower would...just a flat or dwonward curve.... I will look into the AEM... thanks Blaze....

[lagcisco]

krillin, current mods are Dr Grey Stage 1: TBE with HFC, drop in filter, denso 660cc injectors, MBC set to 20psi (though I want to set it to 19), walbro pump

I was planning on tuning for 91 octane for now

I'm sure once I actually do some pulls I'll have more questions, just havent had time to yet (evo isnt daily driven either)

oh and I'd like to mention about having a safe tune because I do want to track the car during these hot summer days so I'm not sure how that might afect other decisions (one of the reasons I also wanted to set boost to 19psi)

[lagcisco]

oh and my other concern was cool down times

after the car is warmed up how many pulls should I do or how much time should I wait between pulls?

for example, log a pull, review log, make adjustments, wait 5 min, pull again repeat..

[krillin]

you shouldn't have to worry about running 20lbs, IMO. if you have some time, do a few 3rd gear pulls this weekend and let us know how your timing looks along with your EGT's and AFR. a lot of people are willing to help you out. also, try to take some zeitronix logs with a laptop. i'd like to see how your logs look in comparison to mine. :)

as far as the pulls, i would probably do maybe 3-5 pulls back to back. park your car someplace and let it cool for a little bit while you check your logs. then do another set of pulls if you think you need to. also, make sure the road that you're driving on is smooth and flat.

btw, you can thank blaze for these tips as this is pretty much what he told me when i started out tuning. i'm by no means an expert either, but then again, safc tuning isn't THAT difficult.

[leaveit2bevo]

the big boys run 23psi

[Crash]

the big boys run 23psi


on 91 octane?

[Blaze]

the big boys run 23psi


on 91 octane?


That's really kind of an open ended statement.

Certainly it's not advised to take a stock evo and crank up the boost.

There's too many "ifs" to attach to this reply.

23 PSI
- if you have a fuel pump
- if you have a larger intercooler
- if you're running 93 octane or >
- if that level is a short spike
- if you're running larger injectors
- if you're running alcohol/water injection
- if you had a flash tune to accomodate it

and so on, and so on.

[leaveit2bevo]

ya its a spike but I have fp 720s and safc

[Crash]

the big boys run 23psi


on 91 octane?


That's really kind of an open ended statement.

Certainly it's not advised to take a stock evo and crank up the boost.

There's too many "ifs" to attach to this reply.

23 PSI
- if you have a fuel pump
- if you have a larger intercooler
- if you're running 93 octane or >
- if that level is a short spike
- if you're running larger injectors
- if you're running alcohol/water injection
- if you had a flash tune to accomodate it

and so on, and so on.


If you can care less about the longevity of your car
If you have a logger showing knock sensor activity and are watching it while you drive.
If your old car had 644rwhp and your car's acceleration is closer to a civic than your old car. Man I miss the HP :( cant wait wait till I start modding the evo. Its a great platform to build on, I made a good choice. :)

[blkside]

Well I hope you and the T bird were at the track cause people on here will give you a hard time about street racing... Other than that was it from a dig or roll... cause unless he was modded.... hope it was an old one .... an SC....

[leaveit2bevo]

the big boys run 23psi


on 91 octane?


That's really kind of an open ended statement.

Certainly it's not advised to take a stock evo and crank up the boost.

There's too many "ifs" to attach to this reply.

23 PSI
- if you have a fuel pump
- if you have a larger intercooler
- if you're running 93 octane or >
- if that level is a short spike
- if you're running larger injectors
- if you're running alcohol/water injection
- if you had a flash tune to accomodate it

and so on, and so on.


If you can care less about the longevity of your car
If you have a logger showing knock sensor activity and are watching it while you drive.
If your old car had 644rwhp and your car's acceleration is closer to a civic than your old car. Man I miss the HP :( cant wait wait till I start modding the evo. Its a great platform to build on, I made a good choice. :)


23psi is what SG recomends with the supporting mods

[leaveit2bevo]

it was hot as shit that day and now I have head studs.