ALL you need to know about brakes, lines pads

[Coolguy949]

Common Brake Fluid Boiling Points

Contributed by: Coolguy949


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Fluid DRY WET
Castrol LMA DOT 3/4 446 311
Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 550 290
ATE Super Blue Racing 536 392
ATE TYP 200 536 392
Valvoline Synpower 503 343
Motul Racing 600 585 421
Castrol SRF 590 518
Performance Friction 550 284
Neo Super DOT 610 610 421

**Notes**
Castrol LMA is very good at rejecting moisture and may be kept in your brake system for a couple years. The LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity". It comes in plastic containers which do not have a long shelf life. Don't buy lots of this stuff at a time because moisture can make its way through the plastic containers.

Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 is VERY inexpensive and is popular among racers because of its excellent dry boiling point. It absorbs moisture quickly, but the racers don't care since they change their fluid frequently. Comes in metal cans so it may be stored. My understanding is that this fluid is deprecated, and the new part number is somewhat of an unknown quantity. You still might be able to find the original on the shelf at your Ford dealer, though.

ATE Super Blue Racing and ATE TYP 200 are the same brake fluid in two different colors (blue and amber, respectively). BMW recommends this brake fluid for their street cars because it, like Castrol LMA, absorbs moisture very slowly. The advantage over LMA is that ATE has a much better wet boiling point. You can put this stuff in your car and forget about it for a long time. An excellent choice for a weekend track car which also sees regular street duty. Comes in metal cans. The Type 200 appears to be out of production.

Valvoline Synpower is new to me. It was recommended by a number of persons on my regional list. Given that it's <$7.00 / pt, I might give it a chance in the near future. Comes in plastic bottles, so only buy what you need.

Motul Racing 600 is a very exotic and expensive synthetic fluid with high wet and dry boiling points. Too expensive for the street and requires frequent changing due to its hygroscopic nature. Sold in plastic bottles. It is not suitable for the street because it absorbs moisture quickly.

Castrol SRF is a hyper-exotic and hyper-expensive brake fluid that is generally used by wealthy Porsche owners at track events. I've seen prices of $78 per liter for this stuff. Sold in metal cans. I can't afford this stuff!

Performance Friction High Performance DOT 3 has a good dry boiling point but a crummy wet boiling point. It comes in metal cans which is good for shelf life and sells for $7.87 per 16 ounce container. If you are even considering this fluid, I would go with the cheaper Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3. In either case, change this fluid frequently due to the poor wet boiling point.

Neo Super DOT 610 is a DOT 3/4 compatible fluid and contains no silicones. Has a low vapor point to aid in the prevention of vapor lock. Comes in metal cans and can be stored. $13 per 12oz can. *Thanks CJ for pointing out this fluid.*

[Absinthe]

Alright guys I know some of you know this but I dont.

What is the Basic Difference between generic Dot 5 brake fluids and the expensive stuff like super blue?

[gt40]

Good article from stoptech:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakefluid1a.htm

I am running motul 600 and it works great. Get some speedbleeders while you are at it. These things work great: install, loosen the bleeder a quarter to 1/2 turn and pump the pedal a couple of times till fluid comes out. Tighten and do the next wheel. Start from the back and do the inside and out calipers one a time. They are a 1 way valve so you can bleed your brakes yourself easily.

You want 9 of these- inside and outside of each wheel + clutch bleeder in the engine compartment. The clutch uses the same fluid.

Here is the part number:
http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/c=ANK6ml1A3sy83qeOtNmIHH2Dv/product/SB1010S

If you want the stainless version: http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/product/SB1010SS

[Absinthe]

PS- who has it in stock that I can pick up? By it I mean the expensive stuff, motul, super blue etc.

[gt40]

Motorcycle shops all have it. Ask for motul rbf 600. You could always just go to rre or call them and have them ship some.

This is what it looks like: http://outmotoring.com/motul_rbf_600_brake_fluid.html

[Absinthe]

so what ever that motorcycle shop on lincoln by the EZ lube is shoul have it? Good that makes life easy

[gt40]

Rich and I bought some from the bike shop just 2 blocks from firestone while waiting to get my rotors turned.

[leaveit2bevo]

Rob sells super blue

[drmosh]

I don't know if Motul is too good for daily driving though.

[Absinthe]

its fluid how bad could it be?

[Coolguy949]

Some fluids are not hydroscopic enough, meaning they dont have enough of the necessary lubricants to keep the system nice and lubed inside. It could lead to the quicker degeneration of valves and the rubber.

I sell ATE for $16 per 1 liter bottle of it. Good for about two flushes. I'm in the process of getting a supplier deal going for Motul.

[gt40]

Yes, that link is the exact part number. You have a choice of regular steel for 7 bucks or 15 for stainless. Don't forget to get 9 - one for inside half of the caliper and 1 for outside on each wheel + the clutch bleeder. BTW, my car shifts better now that i bled the clutch. Seems there was a little air and the brakes and clutch use the same fluid.

Rich and I bled all four brakes in about 7 minutes. I could have done it myself without a second person. It is that simple because of the oneway valve.

You loosen them a 1/4 turn and step on the brakes a few times till fluid comes out and then tighten. Air goes out, but not in with the valve and the thing is that it just works.

[EVO_RPM]

Thanks for the info Mark. I was just about to buy 5. I didn't know you had to bleed the inside and outside bleeders.

- Rich

[ev8sive]

Shit, I only thought the fronts had dual bleeders..... damnit... now I have to buy another 2 for the rear!

[Hallster]

I went with NEO Super DOT 610. The NEO stuff is about the same price as Motul but has a little better boiling point at 610 degrees whereas Motul is 593.

Neo also has 'High Performance Brake Fluid' as well. Its boiling point is better than Ate Super Blue, at 568 degrees, and is $5.95/12oz can. Not bad.

I bought the NEO 610 from Baker Precision, here in So Cal:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/neobrk.htm

NEO Synthetics: http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/

Here's a website I found helpful when doing my research:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm

Good luck,

Sean

[Hallster]

Here is the part number:
http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/c=ANK6ml1A3sy83qeOtNmIHH2Dv/product/SB1010S

If you want the stainless version: http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/product/SB1010SS

Great site. Thanks for the tip.

They also have a bleeder bag for $6.00. http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/c=ANK6ml1A3sy83qeOtNmIHH2Dv/product/BAGANDHOSECOMBO

I always used a vacuum line and coffee can, but the vacuum line inevitably ended up out of the can, on the floor, making a big mess. Now with the "Caliper Colostomy Bag", my worries are gone! :)

Sean

[Ricardon]

I'm serious about those freaking speed bleeders! It was scary how insanely well they work. BTW it took us more like 3 minutes to bleed all eight valves...maybe 10 minutes to install them. I wouldn't say that I was really too sure how they would work out, but it really kicked my ass how easy it was. I'm buying a full set for sure!

[han74j]

wow what a big difference! Â* its a day and night difference on the brake!! Â*when out for about 10 mins and just brake every where! Â*

took 2 bottles of motul to bleed the whole system. Â*the order to bleed are passager rear, driver front, driver rear, and passager front. Â*There are 2 bleeders on each brake pad. Â*Bleed the inside one first then outside. Â*what i notice was that the passager rear had a lot of black stuff coming out of it!!!

i bleed that one for about 20-30 mins so much black stuff............. Â*picture will be posted later. Â*there are also lots of white chunks coming out of the brakes. Â*i thought it was bubbles at first then when i took a closer look, and found out that it was particles.... not sure what it was but on every brake there was that white particles... Â*

my question what the hell are the black, and white particles?

Upgrade highly recommand! Â*=)

[perversity]

The white particles are from where the fluid was boiled. good job you changed it!

[Deca Auto]

how do you replace the bleeders? You just unscrew the old ones, but won't the fluid spill out?

[trannb]

A little may come out, but not enough to be any trouble. Most of it will just be fluid from the bottom of the stock fitting. Just have a shop towel on hand. Fluid shouldn't come out by itself. It's like when you open the valve. Nothing will come out unless someone is stepping on the brakes.

[EVO_RPM]

When you guys bled your brakes did you leave the car running like mitsu recommends? I've heard other people leaving it on as well.

- Rich

[Hallster]

When you guys bled your brakes did you leave the car running like mitsu recommends? I've heard other people leaving it on as well.

- Rich

I didn't

[trinydex]

hmmm what is the significance of leaving the car on? and these speed bleeders look like my next mod!

[ovenmit331]

so when you're stepping on the brake and fluid is coming out, do you just pour more into the resevoir in the engine bay? Sorry if this is way off base, but i've never bled brakes before. And can you bleed all the wheels and the clutch at the same time? or do you have to do one at a time?

[trannb]

One at a time. You also want to make sure that your fluid resovoir has plenty of fluid in it. You don't want to suck in any air

[erikgj]

If your changing out the fluid bleed them in this order:

1. Rear right inside piston
2. Rear right outside piston
3. Rear left inside piston
4. Rear left outside piston
5. Front right inside piston
6. Front right outside piston
7. Front left inside piston
8. Front right outside piston
9. Clutch

I changed #4 should have said left.

[trinydex]

is that really necessary with the speed bleeders... cuz if anything they'll all just squirt fluid and not suck in air right?

[erikgj]

is that really necessary with the speed bleeders... cuz if anything they'll all just squirt fluid and not suck in air right?

If you want to use the least amount of new fluid to replace your existing fluid yes.

[trinydex]

well if you flush the system it would be the draining plus the same process... and you'd have to bleed again anyway and the bleeders would help. so why the ordering... is what i mean, to use up the least amount of fluid?

[erikgj]

well if you flush the system it would be the draining plus the same process... and you'd have to bleed again anyway and the bleeders would help. so why the ordering... is what i mean, to use up the least amount of fluid?

No use draining it. Just run the new fluid out the farthest chamber first (inside right rear). then go in the rest of the order from farthest to nearest. Or do what you want. The bleeders will help do it single handed but so would a power bleeder. I don't use anything since my daughter likes to help.

If go with SRF you will want to conserve brake fluid.

BTW, Super Autobacs has ATE super blue for around $11 for a liter. the only decent price in that place.

[trinydex]

uhm... don't you wanna drain the system befor eyou put in new stuff... cuz the old stuff might have took in water and may be teh not so performance based stuff that mitsu puts in stock?

hindsight: NEVER DRAIN THE SYSTEM THE AIR GETS IN YOUR ABS SOLENOIDS AND TAKES MANY BRAKING CYCLES TO GET OUT.

[jondukes]

the order is somewhat necessary because your trying to start furthest from master cylinder,i was un aware of doing the inner then the outer though

[trannb]

uhm... don't you wanna drain the system befor eyou put in new stuff... cuz the old stuff might have took in water and may be teh not so performance based stuff that mitsu puts in stock?

If you flush the entire system it does the same thing. I switched to ATE Super Blue during my first flush because you can easily tell when the system is completely filled with new fluid (since it's a different color). ATE also makes a Yellow-dyed brake fluid that's otherwise the exact same fluid. Green = almost flushed. Solid color = flushed.

Motul RBF600 is good stuff too.

[izzy]

If your changing out the fluid bleed them in this order:

1. Rear right inside piston
2. Rear right outside piston
3. Rear left inside piston
4. Rear right outside piston
5. Front right inside piston
6. Front right outside piston
7. Front left inside piston
8. Front right outside piston
9. Clutch

The wheel order you have suggested is not correct according to the service manual.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=21192.gif

[gt40]

I just finished bleeding my brakes and was reminded just how well speedbleeders work. If you want to bleed your brakes or change brake fluid, these things make the job a lot easier.

Basically, they act as a one way valve so 1 person brake bleeding is easy.

To install, simply unthread the stock valve on the caliper and screw the new one on. To bleed, crack the valve by opening 1/2 turn and pump the brakes till fluid comes out. Good idea to put a hose on the nipple to direct the fluid into a bag or something so it doesn't spray the car.

One person can bleed all four wheels in minutes. Jacking up the car and taking the wheels off takes more time than bleeding the brakes.

You need 9 - 2 for each side of the caliper + 1 for clutch cylinder.

Here is a link if you want to order with the correct part(part #SB1010S) :

http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/
DON'T FORGET TO GET 9!

[jondukes]

where is the clutch bleeder located??

[gt40]

Here ya go:

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/gt40/clutch_bleeder1.sized.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/gt40/clutch_bleeder2.jpg

[Dr. Evo]

You can make you own speed bleeder that can be transferred to any car, any brake, etc. All you need is an epty 20 oz soda bottle, 2-3 feet of 3mm vacuum hose, and a metal coat hanger. Drill a hole in the cap of the soda bottle large enough for the hose to fit through. Form the hanger into a hook on one end and wrap the other end around the neck of the bottle. I leave a little hanging that I shape upward to hold the end of the hose. Fill the bottle 1/2 way with fresh fluid. SUBMERGE (very important) one end into the fluid, but leave about 1" or so from the bottom. The other end goes over the bleeder nipple. Use the hanger to hang the bottle from the suspension. Don't forget to fill your master cylinder with fresh fluid. If you are flushing the system, suck out the old fluid before you put the new suff in. Pump the pedal in nice smooth strokes, going all the way to the floor. Once all the air has purged from the hose (2 or 3 pumps) you will see that old fluid leaves the hose and settles on the bottom. When the pedal is released a very small amount is drawn in (you expect the same amount to be drawn back in, but no). Pump until the fluid coming out looks like the new fresh fluid you put in the master cylinder if you are flushing, or until the micro-bubbles subside. After a few uses the end may not fit tightly over the nipple any more, so simply cut off 1/2" and you have a fresh end! And remember to continually check and replenish that master clyinder! USed in conjunction with speed bleeders make it even easier. I like this because you can actually see if you got all the air out, and can clearly see when the fresh fluid has made it to the end of the line.

[Macky]

where was that thread about how to adjust the brake light so that it fires up when you tap the pedal? thanks

[sidewaysevo]

my brake like used to flicker. Then i checked my brake fluid and it was low. Filled it no more flickering brake light.

[Macky]

its not a flicker its the delay, i had my eye on it the first night. i remember a thread here about it.

[el rey evo]

Macky this is the only one I could find....

http://www.socalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5941&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=worky

But I know the one you're talking about....someone explained how to adjust the sensor yourself....but it's your brand new MR...just have HB do it tomorrow bro :D

[alex_alex]

I was at streets yesterday, and my brake pedal basically lost pressure while i was on the track. Luckily it happened on the cool down lap.

I was using the Road Race Performance Friction 95's with MOtul and SS brake lines.

Was i boiling my fluid? The past couple times at the track, the brake fluid seemed to overflow just as it did yeesterday, but i had never lost pedal pressure before.

Everything's fine now, but im a bit worried about the next time i go to the track. Was the fluid just getting too hot or should i be looking for another problem?

[jondukes]

when the peddle is soft and wont stop car like it should its boiling fluid
when the peddle feels fine and car doesnt stop like it should its the pads

[alex_alex]

when the peddle is soft and wont stop car like it should its boiling fluid
when the peddle feels fine and car doesnt stop like it should its the pads

ok it looks like it was just boiling the fluid then.

the pedal was indeed soft when the car wasn't stopping like it should, and when it DID feel normal, the car was stopping just fine.

Thanks for the help.

By the by, i thought it was strange also b/c the pedal pressure would only go soft every other time i stepped on the brake pedal, it wasn't failing every time. Anyone know why?

[Macky]

have you had your brake fluid changed lately? you may have some air pockets in the system causing that occasional slop. have it done properly, have Rob (Coolguy949) do it, and you wont be disappointed :D

[jondukes]

definently once its boiled it must be changed,also over time (especially with air in the lines)the fluid picks up water and makes it much easier to boil and much less effective

[Deca Auto]

Same thing happened to me after I broke in my rotors. Any suggestion on what kind of brake fluid for a mostly street evo? I was thinking ATE blue or stock OEM. Something with low moisture absorbtion.

[jondukes]

ive used motul rbf 600 since my first 500 miles, you cant go wrong with it (doesn't need to be hot to work,but works damn good when it is) you can get it at any motorcycle dealer

trinydex: a caveat that i want to add in here is that you can go wrong with it. you are not suppose to leave a fluid like motul in the system for too long. it gathers water and rusts everything inside. if you're going to run motul bleed every 3 months AT LEAST. otherwise use a more friendly fluid like ate super blue.

[Coolguy949]

I was at streets yesterday, and my brake pedal basically lost pressure while i was on the track. Luckily it happened on the cool down lap.

I was using the Road Race Performance Friction 95's with MOtul and SS brake lines.

Was i boiling my fluid? The past couple times at the track, the brake fluid seemed to overflow just as it did yeesterday, but i had never lost pedal pressure before.

Everything's fine now, but im a bit worried about the next time i go to the track. Was the fluid just getting too hot or should i be looking for another problem?

What do you mean it lost pressure? Did it go all the way to the ground? Did the car still stop?

Rob

[Coolguy949]

did you look under the hood if the fluid was indeed boiling? even if the system does fail, it should revert to the full manual, unassisted mode (hard pedal pressure) unless, like aforementioned, the fluid is boiling like hot water.

Well, you wouldnt really see it boiling unless it was really bad i would guess. What happens is the fluid gets so hot it starts creating air bubbles throughout the brake system. These bubbles cause a degenrated braking performance when you're trying to build pressure in the system because they contract like little cushions and dont keep the pressure firm and constant. The only way to get them out is by flushing out the old fluid. That's why boiled fluid needs to be taken out.

[alex_alex]

I was at streets yesterday, and my brake pedal basically lost pressure while i was on the track. Luckily it happened on the cool down lap.

I was using the Road Race Performance Friction 95's with MOtul and SS brake lines.

Was i boiling my fluid? The past couple times at the track, the brake fluid seemed to overflow just as it did yeesterday, but i had never lost pedal pressure before.

Everything's fine now, but im a bit worried about the next time i go to the track. Was the fluid just getting too hot or should i be looking for another problem?

What do you mean it lost pressure? Did it go all the way to the ground? Did the car still stop?

Rob

Yeah, the pedal went all the way to the ground, and stopped a little bit (i was just lucky it only happened on the cool down lap entering the chicane at streets, so it wasn't that dangerous of a sitatuation. But yeah, the pedal just lost pressure, it would barely stop, but then pressure would come back again.

I just bought some more Motul 600 and im gonna bleed it before Streets on the 18th.

[Coolguy949]

I was at streets yesterday, and my brake pedal basically lost pressure while i was on the track. Luckily it happened on the cool down lap.

I was using the Road Race Performance Friction 95's with MOtul and SS brake lines.

Was i boiling my fluid? The past couple times at the track, the brake fluid seemed to overflow just as it did yeesterday, but i had never lost pedal pressure before.

Everything's fine now, but im a bit worried about the next time i go to the track. Was the fluid just getting too hot or should i be looking for another problem?

What do you mean it lost pressure? Did it go all the way to the ground? Did the car still stop?

Rob

Yeah, the pedal went all the way to the ground, and stopped a little bit (i was just lucky it only happened on the cool down lap entering the chicane at streets, so it wasn't that dangerous of a sitatuation. But yeah, the pedal just lost pressure, it would barely stop, but then pressure would come back again.

I just bought some more Motul 600 and im gonna bleed it before Streets on the 18th.

Do you keep the car running when you bleed the brakes? That's very interesting brake pedal stopped completely. Did it stay without pressure if you kept trying to press the brake or only for one push? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to narrow it down to what it could be.

[Edward M]

I've been looking into uprading the rotors on my Evo and was wondering what set-ups everyone is running. I've heard of a few people running the stock calipers with upgraded rotors, pads, brake lines and fluid. I've heard that once those parts have been changed out the, the car stops in a heart beat and stops as well as a big brake kit would.

I personally think that would be a great set up and would also save me a nice amount of cash. What do you guys think, should I do this "Brake-Mod" or wait a while and go with a big brake kit.

[leaveit2bevo]

depends what are you using the car for?

[robi]

4 different rotor systems the stock calipers are good but the Stoptech's are worth the extra $$$'s

[moogle]

???

the evo has 2nd best braking next to an enzo? I say the stock is good enough, the brake pads is probably the only thing that's weaksauce.

[Edward M]

Thanks for all the replies...

I'm trying to get the car ready for track but it is obviously still my daily driver. I'm just looking into all my options before I make a decision. Not that I have complaints about the stock brakes, I would just like a little more "umph."

Any more feedback??

[Knower]

Thanks for all the replies...

I'm trying to get the car ready for track but it is obviously still my daily driver. I'm just looking into all my options before I make a decision. Not that I have complaints about the stock brakes, I would just like a little more "umph."

Any more feedback??

I recommend going to stainless steel lines, Motul 600 fluid, and some PF "95.7" street/track pads. That should do you very well for your goal.

[ScoobySteve]

I recommend going to stainless steel lines, Motul 600 fluid, and some PF "95.7" street/track pads. That should do you very well for your goal.

I agree as well with the steel lines and the Motul fluid. I have the stop tech stage 2 slotted rotors, with the BF G stainless steel lines on Axxis Racing Ultimate brake pads, and my braking performance so far is superb, but that's on my WRX. The stock EVO's have some excellent bang with the stock brembo's but if you're looking for high end performance braking, while being able to streetability and have the budget, get some slotted rotors, (stoptech is good) stainless lines, fluid, and some Hawk Pro or Endless SS performance brake pads. A big pricey of a setup, but with the stock brembo calipers, that is one powerful braking system worthy of track use.

-Steve

[Chris in SD]

I had Endless 2-piece slotted rotors, Endless SS-S pads, Endless SS lines and ATE Super Blue fluid w/stock calipers. It worked very well.

[leaveit2bevo]

Thanks for all the replies...

I'm trying to get the car ready for track but it is obviously still my daily driver. I'm just looking into all my options before I make a decision. Not that I have complaints about the stock brakes, I would just like a little more "umph."

Any more feedback??

I recommend going to stainless steel lines, Motul 600 fluid, and some PF "95.7" street/track pads. That should do you very well for your goal.

pf97 will eat your rotors if you run them daily, I know from experiance.

[GokuSSJ4]

you can upgrade pads , rotors , and the rest has been mention before
for rotors you have several options
you can upgrade to a 2 piece rotors like
Project MU
Endless
or
Baer
or you can upgrade to slotted like
stoptech
rotora
brembo etc...
pads you have the following :
Blue Hawks
Endless
Project MU
Performance Friction
Ferrodos
Pagid etc...
fluid IMO i like the Motul 600
and some nice SS lines to go along with everything
if you want to spend abit more money you can do:
Stoptech (robis set up) or big brake kit from stoptech as well (STITHIS set up)
Rotora
Baers
Alcon
Brembo etc...

[jondukes]

just dont use those blues on the street they're way to loud,will eat rotors and stain the rims w/ UNremovable dust
on the track i wouldnt use anything else

[ScoobySteve]

just dont use those blues on the street they're way to loud,will eat rotors and stain the rims w/ UNremovable dust
on the track i wouldnt use anything else

*shiver* agreed, something nice and streeable would be some HAWK, Axxis or SS endless pads. But remember, more performance orientated brake set ups will cause sooner wear and will need quicker replacement. Your stock setup is good for now, to save best abgn for the buck, get SS lines and 600 MOTUL fluid. When your rotors get warped, happens with the brembos, replace the pads and rotors with something that's got a little more oomph in the stopping department.

-Steve

trinydex: keep in mind, generally speaking evo rotors don't warp they get pad deposits, that means you need to beat on them. also performance pads are harder when cold and soften up as they get hot. this is because they need to be able to withstand more heat. so if you run them daily, they're not hot and will increase rotor wear.

[ovenmit331]

I had Endless 2-piece slotted rotors, Endless SS-S pads, Endless SS lines and ATE Super Blue fluid w/stock calipers. It worked very well.

Which 2 piece slotted rotors did you get? Where did you get them from? How much did they cost? Did you run them with stock wheels? If not, will they fit stock wheels? Is it cold in France? Does this van get good gas mileage?

If anyone knows where the last two questions came from, 10 pts...

[Knower]

When your rotors get warped, happens with the brembos....

Nope. Everyone read and learn:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

[gt40]

I am extremely happy with my ap racing/ pagat front rotor kit. Full floating and they just stop... and stop... Stoptech like performance at less than half the price imo. The paget blue pads they come with just rock. Tried some pf97's at the track and no comparison back to back. One thing to be aware of: The rotors are larger than stock so you use the paget's or have to slightly trim stock pad designs like I did on the pf97's They are not really that noisy either.(Note to Goku- stop confusing the noisy carbon triple plate clutch with the brakes :p)

I have driven this setup now for 8k on the street and 8 track days and they are one of the best things I did for my car.

[Chris in SD]

I had Endless 2-piece slotted rotors, Endless SS-S pads, Endless SS lines and ATE Super Blue fluid w/stock calipers. It worked very well.

Which 2 piece slotted rotors did you get? Where did you get them from? How much did they cost? Did you run them with stock wheels? If not, will they fit stock wheels?

Endless
Adam @ www.Z1auto.com
They were $1900 for fronts and rears
They fit stock wheels but I had 18" BBS

EOM

[ovenmit331]

I'm about to switch over to Works TKS SS Brake Lines and Clutch Line and was wondering how much fluid I should buy? Â*How many ?-litre bottles? Â*I've heard 3-4. Â*Anyone thats done it have an answer?

trinydex: KEEP IN MIND, WORKS BRAKE LINES HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO FAIL. they will not let any customers run their lines at the track. be warned.

[trannb]

1 liter is enough to completely flush out and bleed a non ABS evo. I normally have to use the 3rd bottle of Motul when doing this on an ABS'd car.

[trannb]

Sure, just don't open the bottle until you need to use it.

trinydex: PLEASE NOTE, when opening a can of motul it must be used, cannot be stored!

[modankevo]

just took me 2.5 bottles to flush my system with motul600

[erikgj]

I'm about to switch over to Works TKS SS Brake Lines and Clutch Line and was wondering how much fluid I should buy? How many ½-litre bottles? I've heard 3-4. Anyone thats done it have an answer?

I've done the brake flush and brake flush twice on ABS Evos both times completed it with a little less than a liter. You just need to do it in the right order.

[trinydex]

I had Endless 2-piece slotted rotors, Endless SS-S pads, Endless SS lines and ATE Super Blue fluid w/stock calipers. Â*It worked very well.

Which 2 piece slotted rotors did you get? Â*Where did you get them from? How much did they cost? Â*Did you run them with stock wheels? Â*If not, will they fit stock wheels? Â*

Endless
Adam @ www.Z1auto.com
They were $1900 for fronts and rears
They fit stock wheels but I had 18" BBS

EOM

i agree... for a stock sized rotor i would prolly get these... but hte problem is... i don't know any hard facts about htem... not weight not performance and no one has them... so... the only thing i trust is something bigger :[.

hey robi, maybe you can tell us what's worth it about the stoptechs, in your opinion. and also... are the stoptech fronts running a smaller pad than the stock brembos? (that's what i heard need to confirm, i know they're balanced whatever they are)

and mark... how much do your rotors weigh and is john ever gonna piece together a rear set, not that rear is necessary but it's nice to have a light rotor back there too :[?

personally i'm leaning VERY hard towards mark's setup. the aps are proven they got the extra heat sink adn well... they're cheap!

oh yeah and mark... have you experimented with any other pads? i'm a bit afraid of the 100mph lockup... anything with less initial bite but still the same performance? those pagids just sound too mean... but if not... how much of this trimming is involved?

and i guess if there isn't a solution for the 100mph lock up it's nothing that can't be solved with good brake modulation right?

check this out too: http://www.advancedcooling.com/index.html

HINDSIGHT: please check out the brake engineering section of the buyer's corner thread on brakes http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=23259.0

[gofaster87]

Stopping distance is not the only factor that you look at when purchasing a brake upgrade. Heat dissapation is big factor as well. My brake kit can handle the heat all the day and not even stress it. A canyon run doesnt put any effect on the setup. When you guys compare stopping distance, this is only part of the equation. Try looking at the big picture.

[trinydex]

in order to get a full flush it's 2.5 bottles but since you already opened the third one... you might as well get an extra sure flush cuz you can't store brake fluid anyhow. i'm pretty sure unless you really mess up you won't need 4 bottles cuz you got that .5 bottles of slack.

[all stock]

my god - 2.5 bottles?

I just used the valvoline dot3/4 and replace every 3-6 months. Cheap and has good dry BP.

[trannb]

I'm cheap so spending 3 times more on brake fluid is not an option. I normally buy 1 can of ATE Super Blue (or the yellow variation) for $10. I use just a little over half of the can to do a full flush/bleed. With ATE Super Blue (and the yellow variety,) you can tell when you're on new fluid. If you're switching back and forth every time you flush your fluid, the color will turn from blue to green to yellow or vice versa.

[silver bullet]

Forget the speed bleeders and don’t ever press the brake peddle to the floor. Buy a Motive pressure bleeder http://www.ajusa.com/cgi-bin/store/view_product?prod_id=0000000347&ajr_skey=2c0f95bbf24bd387aa485ef6bedbfec1

The reason why you don’t want to press the brake pedal to the floor is the section of the master cylinder bore that’s not part of the normal pedal stroke is rusted and when you press the pedal to the floor, you run the master cylinder seals over that rust.

Bleed the brakes with he car running.

Mark

[ovenmit331]

1. when using speedbleeders, do you do all nine (clutch too) at once?
2. can you do one at a time?
3. i saw a picture of the order when doing one at a time, anyone got a copy?
4. i assume you do this with the car running?
5. can you just empty the whole braking system of fluid by bleeding, and then starting adding new fluid to the resevoir until no more air comes out?
6. do you leave the speedbleeders in, or replace with the original bleed screws?
7. how hard is it to change out the clutch line? anyone got a picture of where its located? I've never even seen it...

thanks in advance. about to do a complete brake overhaul with SS lines, Motul fluid, SS-S pads, and contemplting rotors, but will probably wait on that.

[alfredob1]

1. when using speedbleeders, do you do all nine (clutch too) at once?
The clutch would be separate. But I don't think you can do them all at once.
2. can you do one at a time?
Yes.
3. i saw a picture of the order when doing one at a time, anyone got a copy?
I need to find it.
4. i assume you do this with the car running?
According to manual, yes.
5. can you just empty the whole braking system of fluid by bleeding, and then starting adding new fluid to the resevoir until no more air comes out?
Yes, but not recommended.
6. do you leave the speedbleeders in, or replace with the original bleed screws?
Either will work. Although removing the speed bleeders somewhat defeats the purpose of using them.
7. how hard is it to change out the clutch line? anyone got a picture of where its located? I've never even seen it...
The hardest bolt to get to is the one on the master cylinder other than that it's a pretty straight forward process.

[ovenmit331]

1. when using speedbleeders, do you do all nine (clutch too) at once?
The clutch would be separate. But I don't think you can do them all at once.
so do each individually, including the clutch?
2. can you do one at a time?
Yes.
3. i saw a picture of the order when doing one at a time, anyone got a copy?
I need to find it.
me too. Anyone got it???
4. i assume you do this with the car running?
According to manual, yes.
5. can you just empty the whole braking system of fluid by bleeding, and then starting adding new fluid to the resevoir until no more air comes out?
Yes, but not recommended.
good to know
6. do you leave the speedbleeders in, or replace with the original bleed screws?
Either will work. Although removing the speed bleeders somewhat defeats the purpose of using them.
true, i'll leave them in.
7. how hard is it to change out the clutch line? anyone got a picture of where its located? I've never even seen it...
The hardest bolt to get to is the one on the master cylinder other than that it's a pretty straight forward process.
anyone have a pic of its location or anything? or can someone snap one for me?

[trinydex]

the picture and the order is in the manual...

go on evom and search brake bleeing and brake line install and there are several write ups. one by joe250 which is all you need for brakes

and then for clutch line there is one on evomoto.

keep in mind that your retaining clips may need modification (i pounded mine black smith style but you can try grinding or getting new ones if you were so lucky to buy a kit that had new ones). this is particularly true for the "middle" of the clutch line. btw... evomoto has the pic you requested.

just dive right in... with a friend of course... cuz you need someone to keep their hands clean to look through the laptop for the write up instructions. cuz honestly... yer not gonna understand what's going on until you see everything and hit the problems first hand.

while using speed bleeders... don't listen to the box... all you do is break the screw loose... NO quarter/half turn... that will suck up air THROUGH the threads... i learned this the damn hard way.

ALSO!!! KEEEP THE RESEVOIR FULL FULL FULL. when joe says that every 4 pumps you fill it some THAT'S IT THE MAX, the resevoir is divided into two or 3 sections... one that always looks liek it's full (unless yer doin' the brakes). so keep that thing full full full or you'll bleed it dry and then wonder what the hell is going on.

if you wanna flush the system... then just do yer clutch and then brakes with the car on and do it enough that you empty 3 bottles of motul, or if you're using ate until everything runs nice and blue. have an extra bottle for mess ups.

[Blak94GSX]

Yeah best to have 2 people, one to pump the brake pedal and 1 to keep topping off the fluid reservoir. If it sucks air even briefly you have to start all over.

The order is easy to remember, do farthest wheel from the brake master cylinder to the closest. So in this case it will be Right Rear, then Left Rear, then Right Front, Then Left Front.

[trinydex]

1. Passenger's side rear outside nipple
2. Passenger's side rear inside nipple
3. Driver's side front outside nipple
4. Driver's side front inside nipple
5. Driver's side rear outside nipple
6. Driver's side rear inside nipple
7. Passenger's side front outside nipple
8. Passenger's side front inside nipple

this is the order. for some reason it's a weird x shape.

i forgot to mention... you'll need/want a clean air tight bleed hose solution. what i did...(since i had the speed bleeders) i kept the stock brembo nipple covers and used the speed bleeder nipple cover (one of them) and sliced the tip off and wedged that bastard in the hose... tada... you get a bleeder hose that doesn't drip TOO much.

[Blak94GSX]

The clutch fluid doesn't get anywhere near as hot so it lasts practically forever. Best bet is to bleed it whenever you change the clutch.

[ovenmit331]

The clutch fluid doesn't get anywhere near as hot so it lasts practically forever. Best bet is to bleed it whenever you change the clutch.

or clutch line. so if you leave that clutch line fluid in there, will it mix with the new brake fluid you're putting in? is there any problem with this?

[Blak94GSX]

The fluid in the braking system and the fluid in the clutch hydraulics are seperate. Use a high-quality fluid in the braking system, and use DOT3 or whatever is cheap in the clutch system.

The clutch itself doesn't have any fluid in it, only the clutch line. I was just saying to bleed the fluid whenever you change the clutch only because that is a reasonable interval.

[ovenmit331]

thanks for your help Black94GSX.

the clutch line fluid does come from the brake fluid resevoir though, right?

so just flush the brake line fluid for now with motul or ate and don't worry about the clutch line fluid? and then whenever changing out the clutch line it will fill up with whatever is in the brake fluid resevoir? or is this completely wrong???

[trinydex]

Its a completely different resevoir.

well damn, you learn something new everyday. where is it?

that's the trick... it's completely seperate but they're housed in the same tank. if you look at your brake fluid resevoir there is a wall inside of it... that splits one third of it off... that leads to the clutch. how you fill that seperately... you can't really... unless you use a funnel with a straw... just put the same high quality fluid in both. and keep it all topped off while yer bleeding both.

[WhiteEvoRS]

When i put my e-brake down the light stays on! it just stared doing this! does anyone know what it can be? thanks

[WavMixer]

to begin with, you should check your brake fluid level and condition of your brake pads. The switch could be stuck or the wire from the ebrake to the indicator light could have a short. Do you recall doing anything just before the light started to stay on? For example, if you pulled the center console out, you may have pinched the ebrake wire when putting it back together. If this wire gets grounded, it will cause the light to stay on.

[beavis4g63t]

mine started doing this a couple about a week ago. i checked the fluid level and its o.k. i think the turbo timer is the culprit. the turbo timer hoohks up to the parking brake indicator. i'm going to look at it today so i'll let you know.

[evomrguy]

The pads dont have sensors but the master cylinder does. When the brake fluid gets to the low position indicator on the fluid level it triggers a sensor in the master cylinder to turn on the brake light. If you burn through a set of front pads it should go off assuming you have never topped off the fluid. If your rear pads and front pads are both worn but not yet in need of replacement, the fluid displaced from the master cylinder to keep the pistons in the calipers extended further will be enought to trigger the light. That being said, I have also had problems with a tt setting off the brake light in cars when hooking the wire up to the e-brake. Though the only one that has done that before is the blitz tt, in my experience anyways, greddy and hks have both worked fine for me and I know someone with the apex that has no problems. If the tt is your culprit double check that you are tapped into the right wire, and if its a blitz you might be screwed. HOpe that helps a little.

[ovenmit331]

so if the fronts and rears are wearing evenly its a "hey, get ready to replace me" warning light. and if not then its a "replace the fronts NOW" warning light. thanks

[evomrguy]

Right, but there are also small squeal shims on the pads that are designed to emit a squealing noise against the rotor when ther is 2mm of pad left, so you should hear the noise and recognize that the pads are worn w/o needing the brake light. Its just having two warning feature for one part on the car, albeit an important one.

[WavMixer]

As the pads wear down, the brake fluid level also goes down and this is what triggers the brake warning light on the dash. A simple band aid is to top off the fluid, however this is not a correct fix. There should never be a need a add to your brake fluid unless you have a leak or are bleeding the brakes. So if you fluid is low, it's because your pads are worn and you probably need your pads replaced.

[rEdEvO8]

I have been searching for a good detailed "How to replace your brake fluid", "Change your brake fluid" and what not. Found a lot of mixed answers. What I am trying to do is change the stock brake fluid with Motul.

Is brake bleeding and flushing the samething? I'm not sure, so that is why I'm asking the experts. I dont think so. But reading different peoples posts it seems to be the same.

I found this:
1)To bleed the whole system. the order to bleed are passager rear, driver front, driver rear, and passager front. Bleed the inside valve one first then outside valve on each caliper.

2)Then I read in the service manual that you need to have the car ON and then bleed the brakes and to open both bleeder valves at the same time. Going from passager rear, driver front, driver rear, and passager front.

3) Then I found this link http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/brakebleed.htm and they say to bleed the outter valve first then inner valve per caliper.

Now doing any of the above, is this going to remove enough of the stock brake fluid to replace it with Motul? Is there anything special that has to be done with the master cylinder? And while the system is being bled, I assume I just have someone watch the brake reservoir and fill it when it gets low? And end up going through a bottle or two of Motul to get the system full of the new fluid? Can someone point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Mike

[rEdEvO8]

Motul is blue? I havent opened it. Ima open it when I'm going to do the bleeding. Have any of you guys used a vacuum bleeder? Or just the "pump, pump, pump HOLD" method?

And thanks again for the replies.

[ultraflip]

Motul is blue? I havent opened it. Ima open it when I'm going to do the bleeding. Have any of you guys used a vacuum bleeder? Or just the "pump, pump, pump HOLD" method?

And thanks again for the replies.

mine was blue...

pump pump hold

if it ain't broke.. why fix it... method works...

i'm sure vacuum bleeders work... prolly even better... but i hardly bleed my brakes so i don't see the need to purchase parts to have more convinience for it

[ovenmit331]

OK guys. Â*as part of my "Mod the crap out of the car the DAY it hits 1 year old" plan (i'm a smidge late), I'm throwing some stainless steel brake lines and ATE SuperBlue fluid at her (amongst other things). Â*I've read a few write-ups on doing this but had a few questions..

Sounds pretty simple. Â*take off old hose at caliper. Â*put new hose on at caliper. Â*take off old hose at hardline. Â*put on new hose at hardline. Â*make sure everything is routed correctly. Â*go to next hose. Â*once all 4 hoses are done, bleed brakes. is that pretty much it? Â*Oh yeah, and "don't get brake fluid on ANYTHING. Â*that crap can eat through steel" Â*and if you do, make sure you spray brake cleaner on it like crazy.

Now instead of doing a simple bleeding of the brakes, I've decided to go the complete flush route. Â*can't wait to see that blue fluid pouring out... Â*And here's the order to flush them in:

Passenger's side rear inside nipple
Passenger's side rear outside nipple
Driver's side front inside nipple
Driver's side front outside nipple
Driver's side rear inside nipple
Driver's side rear outside nipple
Passenger's side front inside nipple
Passenger's side front outside nipple

so after the fluid is completely flushed, I've heard that the old fluid is still in the ABS system. Â*So do I go out and brake hard enough (after proper testing that the install went as it should) to get the ABS to kick in? And do that a couple times, and then re-bleed? Â*How many times should I do the whole "go light up the brakes" thing to get it all outta the ABS system?

I also know to recheck everything after like a weeks worth of driving, just to make sure nothing's rubbing. Â*I read that you should bleed the brakes again at this point. Â*Sounds like overkill to me. Â*Anyone got any input?

ALMOST DONE, i swear.

Speedbleeders. Â*I heard they're a godsend. Â*but then i hear talk of pressurized-brake-fluid-resevoir-filler thingy's. Â*anyone have any input on this? Â*and since I'm going through the trouble, should I bleed the clutch as well? Â*I doubt it needs it, but it would be nice to know all the old fluid is completely out of the system...

OK, thats all, for now. Â*thank you guys so much.

[328i-joe]

I agree with silver bullet on the not pushing the pedal to the floor for bleeding. Found this out the hard way with my integra. Granted that car was a little older than the Evo's, but I think this is pretty universal. Don't push the brake pedal down all the way to bleed.

[lagcisco]

is the motive products bleeder the only thing I need to bleed the brakes by myself?

Need to install some SS brake lines and bleed brakes and use some of that super ate brake fluid

[Blak94GSX]

You don't NEED speedbleeders to bleed the system after changing the lines and fluid. You can buy a "one-man bleed kit" for like $5 at any auto parts store, or make one yourself for under a buck, but SpeedBleeders are the easiest way to go since it takes a lot of the guesswork out of it.

[328i-joe]

The reason you don't want to push the brake pedal down all the way down (with our without speedbleeders) is to reduce the chances of messing up the seal inside the master cylinder. When you push the brake pedal all the way to the floor during bleeding you are pushing way farther than the normal stroke and running the seals over parts of the bore that may have a buildup of rust that can damage the seal. This shouldn't be the case with a new car, but any older car that is bleed by pushing the pedal all the way to the floor runs the risk of damaging the seals within the master cylinder. The car will still stop, but while holding a constant pressure (stopped on a hill) on the pedal cars with a seal problem will gradually loose pressure and you will be required to push the pedal in farther to remain stopped or the car will start to move. It does happen, better safe than sorry.

[alfredob1]

I changed from stock to ATE Super Blue before my first track day. I had no problems at all on the track and continue to have none on the street. I have changed it twice so far (Stock to ATE Super Blue to Typ 200).

[trannb]

I changed from stock to ATE Super Blue before my first track day. I had no problems at all on the track and continue to have none on the street. I have changed it twice so far (Stock to ATE Super Blue to Typ 200).


Where did you find Typ 200 locally? I've just been running Super Blue.

[alfredob1]

I bought it online from here (http://raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml).

[akumatose]

Mine actually is the opposite. When i accelerate hard it turns on. weird. any idea guys?

[earlyapex]

Mine actually is the opposite. When i accelerate hard it turns on. weird. any idea guys?


Again, check your brake fluid, It is probably low enough that when you accelerate hard the fluid tips back and triggers the low fluid sensor.

[ovenmit331]

anyone know the safe minimum thickness for stock brake rotors?

[trannb]

Front disc brake disc thickness mm (in)
Standard Value 32.0 (1.26)
Minimum 29.8 (1.17)

Front disc brake disc run-out mm (in)
Limit 0.03 (0.0012)

Rear disc brake disc thickness mm (in)
Standard Value 22.0 (0.87)
Minimum 20.4 (0.80)

Rear disc brake disc run-out mm (in)
Limit 0.03 (0.0012)

[ovenmit331]

so the fronts can only lose 2.2mm's and the rears can only lose 1.6 mm's? thats not much at all and the lip i've got going on my rotors is kinda beginning to worry me. i need to measure them...

[kcross]

i learned the hard way that there are two bleed screws per caliper (one on each side) and to be done correctly you also have to bleed the clutch line because ours is tied to the brake system. the easiest way is to put the car completely off the ground and take off all four wheels and use a power bleeder. hope that help

[GokuSSJ4]

the bad thing with using speed bleeders (or power bleeder) is that eventually with a certain amount of use, they will bust. Its always better to have 2 peeps bleeding the entire system (it makes things alot easier)

[Dr. Evo]

How to make a speedy bleeding tool for less then $2:

Needed:
1 16oz plastic soda bottle, washed and dried.
2' 3/16" ID vacuum hose
Metal clothes hanger
Drill bit the size of the hose's OD
Small awl or other poker

Procedure:

1. Drill a hole in the lid of the soda bottle (just ig enough for the hose to SQUEEZE through), and poke a small hole somewhere on the lid (to allow air out).
2. (optional) wrap hangar around bottle under lip at top and bend into a hook, to hang from the suspension.
3. Fill the bottle with 1-2" of NEW brake fluid.
4. Submerge the hose into the fluid in the bottle, and thread it out of the hole in the cap. BE SURE IT STAYS SUBMERGED AT ALL TIMES!
DONE!

Now you can put the hose on the bleeder, open it, and pump away. When you bring your foot up, it is bringing in a small amount of fluid instead of air (it will push out more fluid then it draws back in). You can yuse this to bleed all by yourself, or have someone else push the pedal and watch the bottle. When you no longer see air bubbles, you are done. No more guessing if all the air is out. Remember to push at a steady, slow to medium pace. I bleed them: clutch slave, RR-LR-RF-LF, doing the outer bleeder then the inner on each caliper before moving on. For a rock hard pedal get a friend to pump the pedal, and, after doing the above, go back over each bleeder as before BUT:

With the bleeder CLOSED, pump the pedal 3-4 times and hold down HARD. Crack the bleeder until the pedal reaches the floor, then close the bleeder. DO NOT let up on the pedal until the bleeder is closed in this final step. Repeat 2-3 times and go to the next bleeder. Sounds like overkill, but IT WORKS VERY WELL. If you follow these directions I GUARANTEE the best brake pedal you have ever had. Remember to use a high quality fluid, and make sure you tighten the bleeders (don't over tighten, though) and reinstall the dust caps. Check that fluid reservoir often, if it goes dry you are back at suare -2 ;). Good luck!

[gt40]

the bad thing with using speed bleeders (or power bleeder) is that eventually with a certain amount of use, they will bust. Its always better to have 2 peeps bleeding the entire system (it makes things alot easier)


If you are nice to them and expecially if you get the stainless speedbleeders, they are quite durable. I put mine on the stoptechs after using them on the brembos for 2 years and a lot of bleeding and they worked exactly like brand new. Torquing them down with a breaker bar is probably what caused your problems :-P

[bbar]

You don’t need to add any more brake fluid. When you compress the pistons again the fluid level will go back up and your light won’t come on anymore. Unless you want to flush out your whole system, you’ll just end up making a big mess when you change your pads.

[Coolguy949]

Dont top off your fluid. If it's low it's because your pads are very low and the pistons are extended far. Check your brake pad wear first.

[leaveit2bevo]

you dont need 2 peice in the rear unless your trying to save a lot of weight, The reason there isnt a lot of rear 2 peice is because we have a drum style p brake and you cant use aluminum hats with it. The works 2 peice rotors are the same thing as the www.racingbrake.com ones I have the PFs and there awesome.

[ovenmit331]

ok so here's what I've found so far (it looks like I'll be going with either the Baer 2-piece front rotors or the Performance Friction 2-piece fronts and the Works (Racing Brake) rear one piece rotors. I really want the full Baer setup, but $525 for a pair of rear rotors seems absurd):

Front:
Brand.................price (set)...weight...2-piece?..drilled/slotted?....website
Racing Brake......660.............19lbs.....Y............ ...slotted.............racingbrake (http://www.racingbrake.com/product_p/2018-311-12.htm)
Baer Eradispeed...585............16.0lbs...Y........... ....slotted............machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/baertwro.html)
Works (RB)..........649............~19lbs...Y........... ....slotted..............worksevo.com (http://www.worksevo.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=279)
Perf. Friction........590............17.75......Y....... ........dimpled............roadraceengineering.com (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/evo.htm)
Racing Brake.......400.............22.5lbs..N............ ...slotted.............racingbrake.com (http://www.racingbrake.com/product_p/90831-211-1479.htm)
Brembo Sport......382............??.??......N............ ...slotted.............machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/brspro.html)
Brembo OEM........482............22.5lbs..N.............. .NA....................machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/mifrbrro.html)
Works (RB)..........379............??.??.......N........ ........slotted.............worksevo.com (http://www.worksevo.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=277)
Brembo................379............??.??.....N.. .............slotted..............z1auto.com (http://z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?model=evo&cat=braking&prodid=994)

Rear:
Brand.................price (set)..weight....2-piece?..drilled/slotted?....website
Racing Brake.......349...........14.7?......N............ ..slotted..............machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/raro.html)
Racing Brake.......350...........14.7lbs...N............. .slotted..............racingbrake.com (http://www.racingbrake.com/product_p/90841-211-1481.htm)
Brembo Sport......365...........??.??......N............. .slotted..............machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/brspro.html)
Baer Eradispeed....525..........11.7lbs....Y........... ...slotted..............machevo.com (http://www.machevo.com/baertwro.html)
Works (RB)...........349.........14.7?.......N.......... ....slotted..............worksevo.com (http://www.worksevo.com/store/index.php?cPath=24)
Brembo................365..........??.??.......N.. ............slotted..............z1auto.com (http://z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?model=evo&cat=braking&prodid=994)

[ovenmit331]

anybody know how much the stock fronts and rears weigh? i think the front's are 22.5 but i have no idea about the rears.

[GokuSSJ4]

go with the baer front and rear, great quality!!! had them before, never had a problem with them...

[ovenmit331]

go with the baer front and rear, great quality!!! had them before, never had a problem with them...


I really want to, but i just don't know if i can justify spending $525 on rear rotors... they are freakin light though!!!

also, just found out the weights of the Perfomance Frictions... 17.75lbs each

[leaveit2bevo]

you dont need floating rears just get the fronts and slotted rears. The norcal track guys run both the PF and racingbrake and like both so I dont think you can go wrong with either.

[trinydex]

there are many ways to cut this pie, but i'm just puttin' the idea out there cuz it's useful.

this type of catch can allows you to bleed both sides of the calipers at once. what you want to do is use two box end wrenches, one on each side of hte caliper, then slip the hose on, loosen, pump and then tighten. you can prefill the catch bottle a little bit so you don't resuck up air if you don't have speed bleeding screws. if you have speed bleeding screws, there's just that much more security. this should theoretically cut yer bleeding time in half, which means you can do it more often!

things you'll need:

big gatorade type bottle, i used vitamin water bottle. you need that neck so you can make a hanger.

lots of zip ties or a metal clothes hanger

some vac hose, i used 5/32" internal diameter (this fits snug over the bleed screws). the drill bit i had to use was 11/32"

a t fitting, altho i wouldn't use a T fitting, i'd use either a Y fitting or a y fitting. i used 1/8" id. outter diameter was 3/16" and as you can see it's a tight fit for 5/32" id hose.

more smaller sized zip ties.

here's the pics.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_DSC00890.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_DSC00891.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/DSC00892.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/DSC00893.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_DSC00894.jpg

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/DSC00895.jpg

hopefully all the closeups show you how to make the hanger. the hanger is used so you can hang the bottle from one of the lug studs, this keeps the bottle from toppling (especially if you hold it on there with a lug nut) and spilling fluid all over.

couple notes, if you use zip ties to make the hanger, you'll need to "lock" of the ties at the end, i used elmers glue, dries hard and wedges up the zip tie so it won't tighten and shorten your hanger.

also depending on whta size vac line you get you'll need the appropriate sized drill bit. use the exact size, the hose is a tight fit even with a lil extra boring! don't forget the breather hole!!! i drilled mine tiny in case it does topple... won't leak very much, but will let excess pressure out and in.

also make sure you make the joining tube more than long enough to reach the bottom of the bottle and depending on wehre you like to hang the bottle, long enough to reach the bleed screws.

if you are struggling with the t fitting and the vac hose, use water as lube, if that fails bad... use brake fluid. i swear i almost ripped a finger nail off.

[BlueBooster]

Just curious what everyone does with their fluid when done. No shop is going to want to receive a hazardous fluid in a coke bottle. Ideas?

[trinydex]

drop it off at any pep boys or oil change place.

[airforce1]

any steel brake line (except Works) should be ok to give you a consistent pedal feel when you are hard on the brakes. Motul brake fluid seems to be the most popular. You should hit myevpstore.com or 500whp.com for prices.

[silvery_eagle]

?
what's wrong with Works' brake lines?

by the way... you might want to just save all the trouble and go here
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=21714.0

[Muellerized...]

?
what's wrong with Works' brake lines?

by the way... you might want to just save all the trouble and go here
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=21714.0

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9979&highlight=works

FYI, RRE has sold brake lines for the evo for almost 3 years now, with no failures, still priced at $95 dollars for the set.

[GokuSSJ4]

As far as fluid goes, I had great results with ATE Super Blue...

ATE Super Blue it's a good fluid, but if you plan to track the car, then i would suggest Motul 600

[silvery_eagle]

?
what's wrong with Works' brake lines?

by the way... you might want to just save all the trouble and go here
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=21714.0

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9979&highlight=works

FYI, RRE has sold brake lines for the evo for almost 3 years now, with no failures, still priced at $95 dollars for the set.


just read that norcal thread... damn that's dangerous!

[trinydex]

if you plan on doing all this... get one of these too

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_DSC00956.jpg

(ford 3 prong)
http://www.apexperformance.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=950&cid=8 for free shipping

and one of these to go with it

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=19992.0

this is the best invention ever. better than speed bleeders by far. all you do it put your favorite fluid in. screw it in. pump it up. crack each bleed screw once. and then turn it to the side and bleed out fluid until your resevoir is sitting at the right level. unscrew, put res cap back on. done.

[Mister]

Motul RBF 600? I just picked up some Motul 5.1.
Whats the difference?

[Alexxx]

this is another good one with pics

lines http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/ssbrakelines.htm

fluid bleeding http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/brakebleed.htm

[zum96spd]

arright it seems like bad things happen one after another to my car. i had the brake pads off and had the caliper off the rotor . . .and some dumbass (wont say who) decides to step on the brake pedal. the piston in my rear caliper was forced out of the caliper and brake fluid leaked EVERYWHERE. i was able to get the piston back in and refilled the fluid but now the brake doesnt bite when i step on the pedal . . .it goes straight to the floor like if i just changed my pads. do i need to bleed the brake fluid or do i need to get a whole new caliper? please help!!!! its my daily driver and i dont have another car!!!


Make sure you clean your caliper well. The break fluid will kill the powdercoating on the caliper and it will start to peel off. I've seen it happen.

[gt40]

here you go: http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=36&topic=5569.0

just get the M10 x 1.0 x 31.35 Stainless Steel Speed Bleeder size at the local motorcycle shop if your in a hurry:

http://speedbleeder.zoovy.com/product/SB1010SSS

stainless is optional- size is the same though...

[ovenmit331]

and make sure to get some brake cleaner and DOUSE that caliper or there won't be any paint on it tomorrow...

[Muellerized...]

found this at http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/evobrakebleedingorder1.JPG

Bleed order

1. Passenger's side rear outside nipple
2. Passenger's side rear inside nipple
3. Driver's side front outside nipple
4. Driver's side front inside nipple
5. Driver's side rear outside nipple
6. Driver's side rear inside nipple
7. Passenger's side front outside nipple
8. Passenger's side front inside nipple


http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/evobrakebleedingorder1.JPG

Never the outside nipple first, as you are trapping/mixing contaminated fluid behind it! Just cause it is on the etardnet does _not_ make it correct.

[EVOate909]

http://www.joe250.com/cars/evo/evobrakebleedingorder1.JPGi
ts the same sequence according to the service manual

[lagcisco]

i just read the service manual too, says to start with the outside nipple

[Muellerized...]

John,

We don't bitch slap here.

Oven,

This is a common question. Thanks very much for taking the initiative to post up the info.
Please confirm the correct order and site your source, then we'll sticky this.

Blaze

YES WE DO AS YOU NEED TO BE :-P

not likely

Clearly your moderator title causes you to ignore the relationship between air bubbles and gravity. How does the intardnet make the bridge passages on the calipers anywhere but on the _bottom_ of the caliper? The fluid enters the caliper in the center, then exits the inside of the caliper thru the bridge tube towards the outer bleed screw that you just opened, trapping contaminated fluid in the top part of the caliper below the inner bleed screw. What happens to the trapped fluid above the caliper fluid inlet? It gets mixed with the 'new' fluid as it gets pushed towards the outer bleed screw, vastly reducing the heat rejection potential of the brake fluid.

Does the fluid magically renew itself cause someone posted BS on a website?

The reality is no, as the caliper is not properly bled, and the pedal travel at operating temperature will continue to be mushy no matter how much fluid you introduce into the system. The true test is the braking system's ability to reject heat, which using the moderator approved method will be far less than the properly bled braking system. I drive more different Evos than most people in this country, and the vast majority of the cars I personally drive have brakes that don't work well at all, because the brake fluid has been overheated and improperly bled. My Evos stop well enough to have the best finishing record in sanctioned road racing in the USA, and I am speaking from my direct hands on experience, not a cut and paste off of a random website, or a regurgitation of the procedure in the factory service manual that led to the spongy brake pedal in the first place.

trinydex:

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/evobrakebleedingorder1.jpg

here's mueller's bleeding order. remember you can always bleed both at once with my catch can how-to.

[lagcisco]

if you boil your brakes in a track day should you also bleed the clutch line?

what about just installed new brake lines? should that also require a clutch line bleed?

does it matter if you bleed the clutch line before or after the brakes?

thanks

trinydex: answer in short, no

[blkside]

Why use stainless steel brake lines?
There are some advantages to using stainless steel brake lines; one is reduced volumetric
expansion. Overtime and under continuous use, OEM rubber lines can swell and expand,
exposing the driver to brake fade. The rubber cover is also vulnerable to attacks from the
ozone layer (rubber deteriorates and causes a failure). In extreme applications (Auto X,
racing, hard riving) rubber hoses might susceptible to debris, thus causing failure.
Stainless steel hoses give some protection from these issues.
In some applications, where you have modified your vehicle (lowered, raised, or changed
some major part, I.E. calipers) your only option is have custom lines made for your
application. Also, in some cases it is hard to obtain OEM style rubber lines for some
older applications.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/lines.gif

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/lines3-1.jpg



GoodridgeÂ* Â*
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/kitpic.gif
Some of the features of these high performance hoses include small internal diameter, special hose design for flexibility, special hose design for extra strength, stainless steel braiding which helps to dissipate any heat better than the standard rubber. All these features go to give between 10 to 25% more braking efficiency.
Our suppliers Goodridge are a company that's concentrating on slowing things down…..
Goodridge brake hoses, originally developed for Motor Racing, feature stainless steel braided hose, which doesn't expand like rubber. The result? Better, more responsive braking and reduced stopping distances. As used by leading WRC and F1 teams, Carl Fogarty's Superbike team, and Steve Peat, 2002 world downhill mountain bike champion. Kits available for every make and model of car, motorcycle or mountain bike, so whatever you ride, we can stop you more quickly.
Goodridge - the World's leading manufacturer of high performance fluid transfer systems, driving the top racecars, performance road cars and motorcycles across the globe. Goodridge products cover all fluid transfer needs including hydraulic Brake and Clutch lines, and lightweight hoses for Fuel, Oil Cooler, Gearbox and Water systems.
K300 stock an extensive range of Goodridge adapters in a range of thread types, and a complementary range of coolers, firesleeves and quick disconnect couplings. Goodridge products cover all fluid transfer needs including hydraulic Brake and Clutch lines, and lightweight hoses for Fuel, Oil Cooler, Gearbox and Water systems.
All Goodridge Car Brakeline kits now come supplied with a clear coated hose as standard.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/lines2.jpg

Stoptech

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/brake_lines.gif

StopTech stainless steel brake lines improve pedal feel and reduce the amount of time between applied pedal pressure and actual deceleration by preventing expansion, which stock rubber flex lines allow. This provides a quicker pedal response, and allows the driver to maintain consistent brake pressure and precision brake modulation. StopTech brake lines consist of a Teflon® inner line that is covered with a layer of stainless steel woven braid. The Teflon tube is very resistant to expansion under pressure and will not degrade from exposure to brake fluid. The stainless steel braid provides support for the Teflon and the weave is extremely durable against incidental impact and abrasion. StopTech brake lines feature a Clear Abrasion Resistant Cover for maximum protection against chaffing. All StopTech Stainless Steel Brake Lines are DOT (United States Department of Transportation) compliant and 100% tested to a pressure of 4500 psi.

Stage 2 Upgrade (Rotors/Pads/lines/fluids) P/N
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/blackside79/stage2-120.jpg

86-622-01364
SLOTTED (Ferodo DS2500 Pads) $1,049.00


Stainless Steel Braided Lines P/N
85-622-4500
FRONT $85.00

85-622-5500
REAR $81.00

[Gear Grinder]

My rear pads wore out first as well. What I found out is that if you do a lot of moderate driving the rears go first on a AWD car. Couldn't tell you why though. Very common/ normal.

trinydex: answer in short, the rear brakes engage first under very light brake application, the fronts don't engage on light application. so drag and go traffic like we have in socal makes the brakes in the rear wear faster.

[ReHeat]

The e-brake does not use the calipers and the pads, it is an internal brake in the rear hub used to stop the rear rotors.Â* If you see the e-brake light stay on, you should bring it in to a shop to have it checked.

[Blak94GSX]

Keep in mind the Brake light on the dash is triggered by two things. If the handbrake isn't all the way down the light is on, and in your case, if the brake reservoir level is low, the light comes on. Usually it starts coming on intermittently when cornering when the fluid gets low but isn't real low, then eventually it stays on.

Now the main reason the fluid level is low isn't because it is leaking, but because the pads have worn down to the point where more fluid is needed in the calipers to offset the reduced pad thickness.

So your solution is two-fold, top off the fluid in the reservoir so the light goes off for now, and then replace the worn pads once you figure out which end of the car it is. If you top off the reservoir first and then put in new pads, it may overflow due to pushing the fluid back into the reservoir. The best option is to bleed the brakes when you do a pad change, since it most likely needs it anyway.

[ReHeat]

how low were your pads or did you have your pads in, was the resevoir cap off? all those things would explain it. but it should because if you move to a big brake kit in the back you only lose function of the shoe and not the entire ebrake all together. unless i'm mistaken....


trinydex, pads had about 50% left, pads were in the caliper, reservoir cap on. I don't see how you would lose the function of the e-brake shoe if you change to a big brake kit tho, the shoe would still touch the inside of the rotor.

05WickedWhitey, check your brake reservoir level as Dr. Gray (Blak94GSX) suggested.Â* If the level is low and there is no leak then just replace your pads, top off or bleed your brakes.Â* If the level is not low and the e-brake light stays on they you have some e-brake issue.

[lagcisco]

inside nipples first!

was also told by the fine folks at RRE i could bleed both nipples at the same time!

[trinydex]

The e-brake does not use the calipers and the pads, it is an internal brake in the rear hub used to stop the rear rotors. If you see the e-brake light stay on, you should bring it in to a shop to have it checked.
i stand corrected ^ is right. it's an entire assembly that bolts onto the inside of the caliper. kits like stoptech retain the ebrake IF they put a rotor in that is large enough to house the ebrake assembly.

these kits however retain the ebrake wtih an aluminum friction surface, so it increases the hat wear which is bad if you're drifting, fine if you're parking.