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View Full Version : tie bars, control arm bars, lower arm bars, control arm bars etc until you vomit



grico42
10-25-2004, 07:35 PM
This is probably a mueller question or anyone else that has the setup, since im planning on eventually getting JIC's. ::enter goku:: I was planning on getting the Cusco lower tie bars both version 1 and 2. Out of the one i saw they seemed to hold the car very nicely. I dont know exactly if thats good or not, because i dont know if it being that stiff will hinder my cornering. However i am planning to jump head over to RRE and get alligned, sway bared, struted, and JIC'ed. Any input would be great. Still dont know if im going to stay Rally or move with everyone else to a street machine. I guess i need to go to a track day to truly decide.

500whp
10-25-2004, 07:59 PM
Lower arm bars are great!! need t get it! =)

trannb
10-25-2004, 08:01 PM
What's wrong with the stock tie bars?

500whp
10-25-2004, 08:09 PM
nothing is wrong w/ them, but the cusco one will reinforce it much better!

GokuSSJ4
10-26-2004, 09:27 AM
if you plan to rally or even thinking of doing rally , i would hate to get the cusco bar and end up bending the bars. IMO the stock ones are more then enough, while cusco makes some nice parts and im sure it can stiffing up the chasis. i dont think IMO you will see a huge difference since you already have 2 low tie bars from factory. i would rather save the money for the suspension or at least get the alignment and rear sway bar by RRE or you can even add the rear bushings. But if you have the xtra money then go for it !!!

Absinthe
10-26-2004, 09:38 AM
based on bang for your buck under body bracing is a waste of $$, bracing is not cheap and doesnt give you that much. That said if you have the cash lying around and it wont result in you not spending that money on things like a sway bar or better pads go ahead and get the bracing. You will notice it at the limits, now what you may notice is more understeer, and it may mess up your alignment especially your dynamic allignment. As the bars straigten and pull the are it may chance some of you angles and toe so be prepared to get an alignment afterwards, making this like a $500 undertaking for not a whole lot of change.

grico42
10-26-2004, 10:59 AM
ill probably go sway and anti-roll then. Then track day here i come. Thanks for the feedback guys.

trannb
10-26-2004, 02:48 PM
RRE Rear Sway Bar, Trailing Arm Bushings, and Mueller Alignment comes out to $500 installed. Make an appointment soon so that you're sure to have it in time for the track day (and you learn how it drives differently).

redvolution
10-28-2004, 06:56 AM
If you still want to replace the front brace after you've got the Mueller pkg I recommend the Works Croxx plate:
http://www.worksrally.com/index2.php?url=http://www.worksrally.com/products.html

You might have to enlarge the opening or add spacers if you have an aftermarket downpipe but it's a very solid piece.

GokuSSJ4
10-28-2004, 08:28 AM
ill probably go sway and anti-roll then. Then track day here i come. Thanks for the feedback guys.

time to see the Nitrous in action!

grico42
10-28-2004, 01:06 PM
hehe but of course. Thats a mighty long straight away at SOW. Since and since i moved the nos button to my shift knob. Time to spray.

Cross plate is also what i was thinking of. However i have a 3" dp so i have to wait for the Croxx plate 2 to come out. Since its supposed to harbor a 3"

Jamie@WORKS
11-02-2004, 02:13 PM
If you still want to replace the front brace after you've got the Mueller pkg I recommend the Works Croxx plate:
http://www.worksrally.com/index2.php?url=http://www.worksrally.com/products.html

You might have to enlarge the opening or add spacers if you have an aftermarket downpipe but it's a very solid piece.

The WORKS Croxx II should be out shortly. It will be compatible with more 3" downpipes and is made of thicker material as well. Not to mention you get some extra ground clearance vs. the stock bars ;) Keep an eye on the webstore for the latest availability: http://www.worksevo.com/store

toku-one
11-02-2004, 02:56 PM
i hope by "more 3' downpipes" that includes buschurs cause im tired of mine rattling and if im going to be taking things off to add spacers why not just upgrade instead.

trinydex
11-15-2004, 04:42 PM
wooohooo there's a 2 coming out eh?

philthyevo
06-27-2006, 12:46 AM
don't the stock tie bars on EVOs have a purpose?* I mean it DOES make the car more stable...and I have an Invidia DP on my EVO 9 GSR with 10 spacers on each screw!* Doesn't having 10 spacers on all five screws holding the two bars compromise the stability or control in any way?* And still the Downpipe is pressed firmly into the bars. It also makes a rattling noise... someone help please.* :crazy2:

CHIGGA73
06-27-2006, 04:31 AM
I had to remove my bars to allow the downpipe to fit on my IX. All the shops said that it isn't a huge deal to not have them there but suggested getting something to fit.

The RMR lower K brace is what i'm looking at because where the downpipe goes, extra space is given to clear aftermarket downpipes.

http://www.rodmillenstore.com/products.aspx?car=evo&category=susp

but the works one is pretty cool looking too

philthyevo
06-27-2006, 09:07 AM
Ever ask Mitsubishi if those bars are completely unncessary like you think? I doubt anything on our EVOs was put on for shits and giggles--it probably makes the car more solid.

Does anyone know why im getting a rattling noise sometimes on my downpipe...is that because its too big or because its rubbing against the tie bars???? help.

trinydex
06-27-2006, 02:42 PM
the tie bars are there to give you a more firm feel on the steering and response. they hold the control arms together nad to a support bolt hole. you can live without them. but you can live with them too.

Muellerized...
06-28-2006, 08:10 PM
the tie bars are there to give you a more firm feel on the steering and response. they hold the control arms together nad to a support bolt hole. you can live without them. but you can live with them too.

We do not run lower tie bars, stock or otherwise on any of our Evos. They showed absolutely no effect on laptime, so they stayed off of the car. The aftermarket bars are just shiny trinkets to take your money, I prefer to spend my cash on parts that make my Evo faster, but that is just what works for me.:-)

nurb2
06-28-2006, 09:07 PM
^^ I was just about to post this. I got an up close look at the Muellerized race Evo on Friday, and it does not have the lower tie bars or any replacement. No rear strut bar either. I'm pretty sure if they are not needed on that car, they are not needed on ours.

-nurb2-

trinydex
06-28-2006, 09:16 PM
mmm it does have bracing in the trunk... the cage.

Muellerized...
06-28-2006, 09:38 PM
mmm it does have bracing in the trunk... the cage.

The highest placing Evo at American Touge 2, my daily driver Evo, has no bracing front or rear. We focus on parts that make a difference on the stopwatch, if it did not make my car faster, it is not on my car.

lagcisco
07-01-2006, 01:21 PM
wow thats good to hear, i was really dammed close to spending like $700 on bracing, front under and rear braces

philthyevo
07-01-2006, 03:29 PM
Some people will take off parts from the EVO to make "a difference on the stopwatch"...some will go as far as taking out the backseat and gutting the interior...but for me, speed isnt the only thing I care for...its also about the manueverability and precision contol of the EVO that is amazing.* Am I alone here?

Maybe if the Mullerized EVO had that additional support down there, it would not only be the fastest EVO, but the fastest car. (Ok maybe that's pushing it)--the bars probably are not SUPER important but I called Mitsu and they DID say that those lower tie bars ARE functional and serve for the vehicles stabilty and control.* Taking them off, while not having a drastic negative effect, wouldn't make the car's lap-time faster, and they didn't recommend it.* But hey, they're only the company that builds the car.

Muellerized...
07-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Some people will take off parts from the EVO to make "a "...some will go as far as taking out the backseat and gutting the interior...but for me, speed isnt the only thing I care for...its also about the manueverability and precision contol of the EVO that is amazing. Am I alone here?

Maybe if the Mullerized EVO had that additional support down there, it would not only be the fastest EVO, but the fastest car. (Ok maybe that's pushing it)--the bars probably are not SUPER important but I called Mitsu and they DID say that those lower tie bars ARE functional and serve for the vehicles stabilty and control. Taking them off, while not having a drastic negative effect, wouldn't make the car's lap-time faster, and they didn't recommend it. But hey, they're only the company that builds the car.


Some people will take off parts from the EVO to make "a difference on the stopwatch"...some will go as far as taking out the backseat and gutting the interior...but for me, speed isnt the only thing I care for...its also about the manueverability and precision contol of the EVO that is amazing. Am I alone here?

Maybe if the Mullerized EVO had that additional support down there, it would not only be the fastest EVO, but the fastest car. (Ok maybe that's pushing it)--the bars probably are not SUPER important but I called Mitsu and they DID say that those lower tie bars ARE functional and serve for the vehicles stabilty and control. Taking them off, while not having a drastic negative effect, wouldn't make the car's lap-time faster, and they didn't recommend it. But hey, they're only the company that builds the car.

Manueverability and precision contol is how one makes a difference measured with a stopwatch. There is no measurable difference with those bars, a 1/16 inch change in the toe setting makes a larger difference.

lagcisco
07-01-2006, 09:02 PM
hey john you mention theres no measurable difference in laptimes, but would you have happened to feel any difference?

Muellerized...
07-01-2006, 10:38 PM
hey john you mention theres no measurable difference in laptimes, but would you have happened to feel any difference?

None.

trinydex
07-03-2006, 04:03 PM
you guys have to keep in mind that there are different ways to improve feel... you didn't catch john's comment about a certain amount of toe change, which also changes the precision of of steering input.

the bars merely do this by increasing rigidity but the same can be accomplished in a different way.

you guys should read the end all suspension thread, the first and last thing about suspension is tires. as long as the tires are maintaining more contact patch through more of the turn than another setup then your lap times will improve. but that also means that if you can maintain the same contact patch doin' a variety of different things your lap times will stay the same

darkevo
07-03-2006, 04:38 PM
I think Mitsu wouldn't have put the bars unless they serve some purpose, as you know if a maker could cut a corner on parts...they will..just business.

Maybe they help in a side impact crash? Mitsubishi spent the money on the part, so there's gotta be a good enough reason.


:mitsu:

philthyevo
07-03-2006, 09:15 PM
I think Mitsu wouldn't have put the bars unless they serve some purpose, as you know if a maker could cut a corner on parts...they will..just business.

Maybe they help in a side impact crash? Mitsubishi spent the money on the part, so there's gotta be a good enough reason.


:mitsu:


EXACTLY!

leaveit2bevo
07-04-2006, 11:00 AM
ive been running without those bars for like 2 years the car feels the same get over it

trinydex
07-05-2006, 03:27 PM
mmmm i wonder why mitsubishi goes to john mueller to build their gallant eclipse for magazine tests.

Muellerized...
07-05-2006, 04:30 PM
mmmm i wonder why mitsubishi goes to john mueller to build their gallant eclipse for magazine tests.

http://cars.ign.com/articles/675/675906p1.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0503_mitsubishi_galant_ralliart/index.html

We also built component parts of the Street Raider SEMA Concept pick up...

philthyevo
07-06-2006, 01:25 PM
Wow I really like that Eclipse, bad ass! Are they ever going to release an Eclipsewith a stronger engine and turbo?


Now that I have my EVO, i only want turbo cars from now on.

trinydex
07-07-2006, 11:07 AM
that car was for frontin' purposes only.

Myevo8
07-21-2006, 02:09 PM
As the title states. Do any of you track guys used these? Have these rear tie bars really work well or they just a waste of money? I thinking about getting one of these for my newb track setup :-\

Muellerized...
07-21-2006, 02:46 PM
As the title states. Do any of you track guys used these? Have these rear tie bars really work well or they just a waste of money? I thinking about getting one of these for my newb track setup :-\

Start with our stage 1 set-up, which is trailing arm bushings, rear anti roll bar and 4 wheel alignment.

We choose to not run any additional bracing on our Evos, and suggest you spend your hard earned $ where it will make measurable difference in the performance of your Evo.

trinydex
07-21-2006, 04:00 PM
uhm... you need to search. there is a thread on this same page that already answers your question

GokuSSJ4
07-24-2006, 12:35 PM
Master Mueller thank you! :coolsmiley:
Spend $$$ elsewhere I will

you learned fast, LOL...
others would argue but mueller has spend way to damn much time improving are trying to reach best lap times .

x[corwyn]
07-31-2006, 12:02 AM
I can imput here. Before I got my stage 1 setup from mueller I had my stock bars knocked off by a cone. I removed them and I did notice less tendency to understeer, but it also felt a little less solid and some of the bumps were a bit harsher. I bought a RMR k-brace because I also have a 3" downpipe and noticed it felt a lot more solid up front, but then in the corners it would understeer when you started getting on it. I got an OS-T rear stress bar and that helped smooth it out a bit and definitely felt more solid and cornered better than stock and with that rear bar the rear end would come out on a hard corner.

I would be curious to see if there is a difference, because I do have a stage 1 setup, and I have the RMR k-brace and the Cusco OS-T. So when I hit my track day, if people want to help me setup a test to tell the difference I would be down for it.

evolcire
08-02-2006, 10:55 PM
As the title states. Do any of you track guys used these? Have these rear tie bars really work well or they just a waste of money? I thinking about getting one of these for my newb track setup :-\

Start with our stage 1 set-up, which is trailing arm bushings, rear anti roll bar and 4 wheel alignment.

We choose to not run any additional bracing on our Evos, and suggest you spend your hard earned $ where it will make measurable difference in the performance of your Evo.


Dare I say learn to drive your stock car to the limit first? You'll save a lot more money, and you'll probably learn more through the experience. And I'd suggest learning how proper static camber and toe settings affect your car before you blindly let Mueller do the work for you without telling you the settings...oops I was typing out loud again.

Muellerized...
08-02-2006, 11:13 PM
Stock Evos understeer like the grocery carts at your local Wal-Mart. If a novice spends a lot of time driving an understeering pig, they learn little about the proper line and driving technique, then get the super ultra bonus round of spending a bunch of time unlearning everything they thought they knew before they can drive a well set up Evo fast.

Make the car handle properly with a Stage 1, then learn the fundementals of going fast at the track of your choice with an Evo that responds predictably to driver input, you will save money in the long run.

GokuSSJ4
08-03-2006, 08:33 AM
Stock Evos understeer like the grocery carts at your local Wal-Mart. If a novice spends a lot of time driving an understeering pig, they learn little about the proper line and driving technique, then get the super ultra bonus round of spending a bunch of time unlearning everything they thought they knew before they can drive a well set up Evo fast.

Make the car handle properly with a Stage 1, then learn the fundementals of going fast at the track of your choice with an Evo that responds predictably to driver input, you will save money in the long run.
interesting when others were saying to learn to drive the stock car as is LOL
I understand the car handles completly different once you add the stage 1 or coilovers, and learning to drive what ever set up you give them to there best of abilities always works great!
Glad you can give us your opinion, since your the expert on suspension tuning and giving us input on how can a beginer learn best is were it counts.

Miss Evo8
08-03-2006, 09:53 AM
Yeah! so Stop trying to waste money and buy more unecessary car parts Tomas! Learn to avoid the pot holes at the track!!! Stay out of the dirt!