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Evolution22plus1
09-08-2006, 03:47 PM
If u guys haven't seen this documentary u guys need to! The evidence against the government couldn't be more clear our own government were the terrorists! Let me know if u want a copy!

gofaster87
09-08-2006, 03:57 PM
Yea and aliens kidnapped my sister. Give it a break. Cant wait till Chris sees this.

Evolution22plus1
09-08-2006, 04:15 PM
watch the video then tell me what u think...i was in denial also for a while...the evidence it there...

gofaster87
09-08-2006, 04:24 PM
Some of these videos are good but anyone can make one disproving or proving any point known to man. It has become a hobby for people.

Evolution22plus1
09-08-2006, 04:34 PM
Thats true but the evidence used in this video is factual...its footage that everyone has seen. But we never got to see it frame by frame...

Chris in SD
09-09-2006, 03:48 PM
Anyone that still believes the conspiracy stories are true are complete idiots...

In REAL LIFE, Al-Jazeera released a video of Bin Laden PRE 9/11 with the HIJACKERS. Kind of makes it clear, doesn't it?

Fuck, it pisses me off so bad to know that I work with this stuff for a living, but some dipshit puts a snake oil video out and suddenly Americans forget that some towel-headed, camel-riding, boy-fucking assholes did this to us...

Wait until you see my shirt tomorrow at the BBQ. Enough said.

Eckolaker
09-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Google Video 9/11 Press for Truth


Chris, you know just as well as anyone "in the know", that Bin Laden is a CIA asset. He was funded through the Pakistani ISI for years during the 80's to fight the russians.

He is a patsy, but he can't make NORAD stand down. So who is lying? DoD? FAA? NORAD? Bush Admin.? All of the above?

kcross
09-09-2006, 05:36 PM
we are all aware that the "loose change" documentary started out as a fictional film about the possibility of it being an inside job until the creator convinced himself based on extremely circumstantial evidence that he was correct?

and anyone "in the know" would also know that the logistics of pulling off a black bag job like this without a single leak is extremely improbable if not impossible.

Eckolaker
09-09-2006, 07:37 PM
we are all aware that the "loose change" documentary started out as a fictional film about the possibility of it being an inside job until the creator convinced himself based on extremely circumstantial evidence that he was correct?

and anyone "in the know" would also know that the logistics of pulling off a black bag job like this without a single leak is extremely improbable if not impossible.


First off, I would say that much of the evidence that points to an inside job is not circumstantial.

Secondly, many "black op" programs go without being leaked that involve thousands of people. For example, the manhatten project.

Many "Black op" projects are never known to the public until they are finally sent to archive and declassified.

So to say someone would have leaked something like this is really just a half-based assumption. Don't forget that anyone with inside knowledge is going to be afraid to be a whistleblower for whatever reasons. I think people that may know something aren't coming forward to protect their jobs, families, etc.

Who killed John O'neal? Google it.

kcross
09-09-2006, 08:34 PM
first off please point out something definitive that is more than circumstantial.

second the size and nature of this project and the assortment of people that would need to be involved makes this next to impossible. now as i was saying the documentary is full of holes. and poorly made.

for one that means they had the cooperation from all passangers on all flights... care to explain that one? did they relocate them? kill them? did they ever exist in the first place? if they didnt thats a whole bunch of actors getting on planes at an airport. and a whole lot of false families to claim they lost people. a whole lot more actors to claim they knew the people. fake jobs. fake papers. fake dna (they identified these people using dna). so that one is completely out the door. so they managed to relocate them right? about 200 people on four flights (im sure its more than that) so they managed to coax these people to completely disappear and falsified the dna... partial and whole bodies? fooled the families, fooled MEs, morticians, and countless other people? or better yet they killed them? and then managed to plant once again partial and whole bodies immediately after the crash with no one noticing... and again all those people that they fooled if they made people disappear.

and excuse me but when did dylan avery became and authorative voice on... anything? when did he become a structural engineer, aircraft expert, terrorism expert, demolitions expert, physicist, chemist, faa investigator, radio engineer, electronics specialist, political scientist, hell even a film maker among other things?

try watching this. itll save me a lot more writing. http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

TrickedOutEVOVIII
09-09-2006, 08:48 PM
Anyone that still believes the conspiracy stories are true are complete idiots...

In REAL LIFE, Al-Jazeera released a video of Bin Laden PRE 9/11 with the HIJACKERS. Kind of makes it clear, doesn't it?

Fuck, it pisses me off so bad to know that I work with this stuff for a living, but some dipshit puts a snake oil video out and suddenly Americans forget that some towel-headed, camel-riding, boy-fucking assholes did this to us...

Wait until you see my shirt tomorrow at the BBQ. Enough said.


you know the more i read what you write chris, the more i realize just how racist and stupid you really are

T

kcross
09-09-2006, 09:02 PM
all the hijacker were arab. true.
all were muslims. true.
camels are a legitimate form of transportation in some parts of the world. true.
turbans kinda look like towels and they wear them on their heads. true.
and im just hypothesizing here but im sure if we drew a ven diagram we could find an arab terriorst asshole that has in fact fucked a boy.

i dont see the problem.

Chris in SD
09-09-2006, 09:22 PM
Anyone that still believes the conspiracy stories are true are complete idiots...

In REAL LIFE, Al-Jazeera released a video of Bin Laden PRE 9/11 with the HIJACKERS. Kind of makes it clear, doesn't it?

Fuck, it pisses me off so bad to know that I work with this stuff for a living, but some dipshit puts a snake oil video out and suddenly Americans forget that some towel-headed, camel-riding, boy-fucking assholes did this to us...

Wait until you see my shirt tomorrow at the BBQ. Enough said.


you know the more i read what you write chris, the more i realize just how racist and stupid you really are

T


Think what you want, but I learned from the Arabs that "women are for babies, boys are for pleasure"... Go ahead and put your head in the sand if you want. I don't have anything against good Muslims (many are my friends), but for these morons to deny the truth of 9/11 is insulting in extremis.

Furthermore, I am not stupid nor racist. I am quite the opposite - I am highly educated, I count friends of many different religions/nationalities/genders/races, and I have a strong identity of who I am. What angers me more than anything are the apologists in the media, in "moderate" Islam, in my own country that continue to try and blame the US Govt/Jews/aliens/whomever else instead of accepting what happened. If I offended you with my angry rant, I apologize. But I stand firmly by my belief that unless the imams, mullahs, etc. actually denounce Al-Qa'ida and their ilk, the Western World will continue to look at Islam (right or wrong) as the root of terrorism in the modern day. I hope that clears things up - and I hope you realize that unless you support them, I am on your side.

TrickedOutEVOVIII
09-09-2006, 11:02 PM
kcross...i changed my mind. chris isnt the stupid one anymore...you are. FYI arabs dont wear towels or turbins like you call them, indians do. fkin jack

chris...you know damn well that i dont support them and ive told you countless times that they do not represent islam in anyway. we've had this debate before. every muslim i know denounces alfuqda and whomever supports them. its always a rotten bunch that ruin it for the rest of us. realize that unfortunately, i dont practice islam like i should...but im still standing up for what i beleive and whats right and wrong.

T

Chris in SD
09-10-2006, 08:52 AM
chris...you know damn well that i dont support them and ive told you countless times that they do not represent islam in anyway. we've had this debate before. every muslim i know denounces alfuqda and whomever supports them. its always a rotten bunch that ruin it for the rest of us. realize that unfortunately, i dont practice islam like i should...but im still standing up for what i beleive and whats right and wrong.

T


Then if that's the case, I am on your side. I am not against any religion - I am Christian, but there are plenty of "Christians" I wouldn't want to be associated with either... Part of my job is dealing with the nasty messes these fundamentalist extremists cause, so I'm a little more sensitive and a whole lot more informed than most of the public. I only wish people would stop making excuses for the terrorists and start denouncing them publicly - that would go a long way. If I have to hold a nation (or nations) responsible, it would be Saudi Arabia and Iran, hands-down. Both are contributing greatly to the spread of fundamentalism (Sunni/Wahhabi for Saudi, Shi'a for Iran).

kcross
09-10-2006, 12:18 PM
oh im sorry that was soooo insensitive of me to confuse two headresses. this would almost be as silly as me calling a baseball cap a hat. oh wait no im not seeing as a turban is also a style of wrapping a keffiyeh historicaly popular in arab and persian history. reguardless i promise from now on i will refer to traditional arab headdress by its proper name, the "keffiyeh" which ironicly is far more simular to a towel than a traditional indian turban is (which is far more like a scarf). in fact as atonement i will go put on my red and white checkered keffiyeh (jordainian style) and agal that i got during my last trip to the middle east. jackass.

TrickedOutEVOVIII
09-10-2006, 01:28 PM
ur a fukin idiot....there is no other word that best describes you or fits you more accurately

T

Eckolaker
09-10-2006, 01:36 PM
first off please point out something definitive that is more than circumstantial.

second the size and nature of this project and the assortment of people that would need to be involved makes this next to impossible. now as i was saying the documentary is full of holes. and poorly made.

for one that means they had the cooperation from all passangers on all flights... care to explain that one? did they relocate them? kill them? did they ever exist in the first place? if they didnt thats a whole bunch of actors getting on planes at an airport. and a whole lot of false families to claim they lost people. a whole lot more actors to claim they knew the people. fake jobs. fake papers. fake dna (they identified these people using dna). so that one is completely out the door. so they managed to relocate them right? about 200 people on four flights (im sure its more than that) so they managed to coax these people to completely disappear and falsified the dna... partial and whole bodies? fooled the families, fooled MEs, morticians, and countless other people? or better yet they killed them? and then managed to plant once again partial and whole bodies immediately after the crash with no one noticing... and again all those people that they fooled if they made people disappear.

and excuse me but when did dylan avery became and authorative voice on... anything? when did he become a structural engineer, aircraft expert, terrorism expert, demolitions expert, physicist, chemist, faa investigator, radio engineer, electronics specialist, political scientist, hell even a film maker among other things?

try watching this. itll save me a lot more writing. http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/



Im so glad you mentioned the passengers and DNA.

Okay so the passengers. I for one still have many questions about the passengers, and what did infact happen to them.

What I do know is that 200 passengers for 4 planes, is a very lite load. Especially for flights originating fromt he east coast and heading to the west.

Second off. The flight manifests(if not faked) do not show any Arab passengers on any of the flights. Mark Bingham's name is not on the passenger list for Flight 93. He is the guy that alledgedly called his mom and said "Hi Mom?, Its me Mark Bingham, You believe me don't you?"


As for DNA, well the FEMA report, the 9/11 commission report, and the NIST investigation all said that Flight 77 vaporized on impact. Yet, they were able to recover DNA from all the passengers, and pentagon workers, but they couldnt find or idenify any of the hijackers DNA.


Again, I point out the Manhatten project to build the first atomic bomb. It involved thousands of people at the height of WWII, The first reports of the project werent released until after the bombs had dropped over japan. I can assure you that more people were involved with that project then 9/11.

Also, if you understand how black ops work. Everything is compartmentalized. So only those that need to know the whole project know it. Others perform their jobs without any further understanding of the whole project or who else is involved.


Obviously you didnt look up anything that I mentioned, because if you did you would have a better understanding.

As for Loose Change 2nd edition. Both Dylan, and Jason have said many times, some of the info in the film is not accurate and they left it there on purpose so people would question it and look into things on their own. Loose Change is not the end all be all documentary for 9/11 Truth. There are many other films that are in my opinion far better.

9/11 Press for Truth is one.

Terror Storm by Alex Jones is another.


There are also many books written as well. David Ray Griffen, Webster Tarpley, Jim Fetzer, Ray McGovern, etc.

Eckolaker
09-10-2006, 01:42 PM
oh im sorry that was soooo insensitive of me to confuse two headresses. this would almost be as silly as me calling a baseball cap a hat. oh wait no im not seeing as a turban is also a style of wrapping a keffiyeh historicaly popular in arab and persian history. reguardless i promise from now on i will refer to traditional arab headdress by its proper name, the "keffiyeh" which ironicly is far more simular to a towel than a traditional indian turban is (which is far more like a scarf). in fact as atonement i will go put on my red and white checkered keffiyeh (jordainian style) and agal that i got during my last trip to the middle east. jackass.


You couldnt be more ignorant on the subject.

First off, there are over 1 Billion Muslims in the world. Most are not Arab. There are muslims of just about ever race in the world. Most of the former Soviet Nations are Muslims. There are South African Muslims, etc.

To be honest, most muslims do not where head attire, like turbans etc. Those would be Hindu's.

Get a real education on the subject your trying to argue before you make a further fool of yourself.

kcross
09-10-2006, 02:36 PM
where did I say "all muslims are arabs and wear headdresses"? go find it, ill wait...

In the mean time you need to have a known sample of dna to be able to make a positive id of an unknown sample. think the hijackers left labeled samples around or had dna samples in any database?

and as far as mr dylan avery is concerned, its really easy to cover your ass and attempt sidestep questions by claiming to be purposefully inaccurate. that is just a pathetic excuse.

back to this being a black bag job (not black ops, its different). black nah jobs have no official support unlike the manhatten project. Its ridiculous to even compare these two projects, at least go with something like iran-contra that is at least in some way compareable.

Chris in SD
09-10-2006, 06:35 PM
You guys that think the US Govt did this forget one simple thing: The government CANNOT KEEP ANY SECRETS. That alone kills the theory...

I really hope some enlightenment hits you guys. You accept something as truth because some college student edits some video together? Come on now...

Eckolaker
09-10-2006, 07:11 PM
You guys that think the US Govt did this forget one simple thing: The government CANNOT KEEP ANY SECRETS. That alone kills the theory...

I really hope some enlightenment hits you guys. You accept something as truth because some college student edits some video together? Come on now...


Exactly, I have done my research to know what happened. To the millions of American's who dont bother to investigate, who don't bother to question inaacuracies in reports, they believe what people they trust tell them.

FFS, even Thomas Kean of the 9/11 whitewash commission admitted that NORAD, and the FAA deliberately lied to the commission. Well I for fucking one would like to know how much they are exactly lying about.

Those involved signed their own death warrant the moment they went through with it all. Its simply a matter of time.

Soon the 9/11 Truth movement will have subpena power, and those responsible will be brought to the light.

I would like to see what those that have denied this truth until now will have to say when all of this does come out. This isnt another JFK, where we will have to wait 30 years to find out it was a government cover-up, this is much much bigger then that.

speedracer2169
09-10-2006, 07:23 PM
ok i have a question? why were the steel beams in the elevator shaft never inspected sent for recycling? And how does WTC 7 come down in a demolition in just one day knowing that it takes planning to bring down a building? Any other theories to those?

kcross
09-10-2006, 09:27 PM
et tu speedy?

how about knowing it takes planning (months of it at least, keeping in mind that buildings of this magnitude have never been taken down in a controlled demolition, not even close) how were two 110 story towers and one 47 story tower rigged to be demolished, in no fashion known to the demolition community, unnoticed by anyone? keep in mind controlled demolitons start at the bottom and all the explosions take place before the building falls (not during) on virtually every floor. if that happened you would actually be able to watch the hundreds (if not thousands) of explosions nessecary to do so along with the reports (explosions). in addition when these building are rigged to implode (thats right they implode them, not explode, causing clouds of dust, not showers) they have to access structural memeber of the building, which in many cases are hidden behind building finishes which means they either placed them as near as possible to these member (which means they were in an accessable area, not one device reported) or they opened up the walls or whatever stood in the way on every floor at every point nessecary and sealed them up, again without being noticed. and even at that there were bomb sniffing dogs in the tower mere days before, were these dogs not bomb sniffing dogs (doubt it)? so that gives them... 2 days to rig the towers? right, not happening. the logistics and support are not available or possible.

and read the 9/11 commission report about the inspections of materials. i doubt any of you have.

come on guys use some common sense, at least make a halfway legitimate arguement backed up with sound, coherent, and reasonable evidence that does not contradict itself.

Chris in SD
09-10-2006, 11:31 PM
come on guys use some common sense, at least make a halfway legitimate arguement backed up with sound, coherent, and reasonable evidence that does not contradict itself.


That's asking too much... FWIW, there is a book out by some engineers who work @ Popular Mechanics. They put all the koo-koo theories to bed with hard science, not conjecture and anecdotes. But of course, that's probably part of the cover-up, right?

I'm telling you, the USG is not good at covering JACK SHIT up...

Terry S
09-11-2006, 06:59 AM
As for DNA, well the FEMA report, the 9/11 commission report, and the NIST investigation all said that Flight 77 vaporized on impact. Yet, they were able to recover DNA from all the passengers, and pentagon workers, but they couldnt find or idenify any of the hijackers DNA.


So how would one identify DNA from passengers who's DNA isn't recorded... Lets think... Oh I got it, lets go ahead and get samples from relatives! Then we can weed out what belongs to who. So now lets just get a hijackers relative so we can identify their remains... Oh wait we cant... I guess we'll have to continue to list it as an UNIDENTIFIED/INCONCLUSIVE DNA SAMPLE... Surely noone will mistake that for not having a sample...



Again, I point out the Manhatten project to build the first atomic bomb. It involved thousands of people at the height of WWII, The first reports of the project werent released until after the bombs had dropped over japan. I can assure you that more people were involved with that project then 9/11.


Well you have to remember that we didn't have nearly as many users of the internet, watchers of special interest programs, watchers of sensationalizing news channels, readers of conspiracy theory periodicals, watchers of "youtube documentaries" than we do now.

It's alot easier to hide things when the technology to spout out bullshit paranoid conspiracy theory hasn't been invented yet. But you know, I wouldn't doubt that there were quite a few people that knew about it outside those actively working on it. But then again, the government was actually allowed to do its job back then as they saw fit without some wackjob "watchdog group" interfering so maybe others didn't know...

Terry S

Chris in SD
09-11-2006, 08:17 AM
To piggyback on Terry's comments about the Manhattan Project, that was back when Americans wanted America to succeed, not fail. Backstabbing bastards these days would have sold us out during WWII... I'm glad I speak German by choice.

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 09:19 AM
That's asking too much... FWIW, there is a book out by some engineers who work @ Popular Mechanics. They put all the koo-koo theories to bed with hard science, not conjecture and anecdotes. But of course, that's probably part of the cover-up, right?

I'm telling you, the USG is not good at covering JACK SHIT up...


All they have done is obscure, misinform, and confuse the truth. They havent covered shit up, only done a good job of misdirection.

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 09:43 AM
I have read every page of the PM book. Its nothing but "straw man" arguements. They questioned nothing and only parroted what the 9/11 commission reported.


BTW, the lead researcher for that PM book, was Benjamin Chertoff. Thats right, cousin of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

I look at the NIST report, and the 9/11 commission report.

Now, what I find interesting is some of the info found in the NIST report totally contridicts the official story put forward.

For example: NIST states that the inner core columns of both towers were only exposed to about 525 degrees F. The outer columns were exposed to about 475 degrees F. Neither temp was hot enough to even weaken the steel to a point of failure.

Underwriter Lab. certified the steel in both towers. The steel was certified to withstand temperatures of 1750 degrees F fore 6 hours before any significant weakening of the steel would occur. Neither WTC1 or 2 burned for anywhere near that length.

On top of all of that NIST determined that the Progressive collapse theory where the floors pancaked ontop of themselves only had "a low probability of occurance".


Now we move onto Building 7. This is the building that exhibits all characteristics of a "traditional" bottom up controlled demolition. The 47 story building collapsed within its own footprint in 6.5 seconds. Nearly the rate of exact freefall, which would be about 6.2 seconds.

NIST has yet to release their report on bldg. 7. That report is now overdue by a year. NIST themselves have stated they will now also be looking into bombs in the bldg being the cause of the collapse.

Let me restate that incase you missed it...

NIST will now be adding a controlled demolition scenario to their models on bldg.7

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 10:15 AM
Dylan Avery debates James Miegs 9/11/06 on Democracy Now.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

Chris in SD
09-11-2006, 10:45 AM
Obviously the truth continues to evade you...

Seems to me that if you were on one of those flights, you'd look at Mohammed Atta and say, "You're not really there. You're a 3D illusion by the government to make me think you're an Arab terrorist." :roll:

Some people don't believe reality until it slaps them in the face.

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 11:18 AM
Obviously the truth continues to evade you...

Seems to me that if you were on one of those flights, you'd look at Mohammed Atta and say, "You're not really there. You're a 3D illusion by the government to make me think you're an Arab terrorist." :roll:

Some people don't believe reality until it slaps them in the face.


Actually, why don't you call the BBC who did a report on Mohammad Atta. They spoke with his father who claimed that Atta is alive and well.

I guess that same reality slapping you in the face comment could be used to describe yourself?

I love how people want to tell me I am out of touch with reality, but wont investigate what I post.

All of the "terrorists" were government patsies. All have been linked to direct CIA affiliates.

Project Able Danger - Google it.

August 6th 2001 PDB "UBL determined to attack within the United States"

Lt. General Mahmood Ahmad (head of the Pakistani ISI)

Norman Mineta's testimony before the 9/11 commission.


Yes, clearly Im ignoring the facts.

Im still waiting for you to address my previous post.

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 11:32 AM
et tu speedy?
and read the 9/11 commission report about the inspections of materials. i doubt any of you have.

come on guys use some common sense, at least make a halfway legitimate arguement backed up with sound, coherent, and reasonable evidence that does not contradict itself.


I know for a fact you have not read the 9/11 commission report, or the NIST investigation.
Its pretty easy to tell based on what your saying. Basically you dont have a fucking clue.

I for one have read all 585 pages of the commission report as well as the 119 pages of footnotes. Along with the Full NIST report minus the WTC 7 report which is still over a year overdue.

So if you want to debate me I would love to do so.

Why dont you address the NIST report footnote about the core columns not reaching a temp of over 525degrees F, and how UL certified the steel at 1750 degrees F for over 6 hours?

Or how about NIST assertaining that the "progressive collapse" theory only had "a low probability of occurance" under optimum circumstances.

When I say Low probability it refers to the NIST calculation that the ratio of three buildings collapsing in on themselves in the same day, in the same fashion, due to fire, after never having occured before is 1x10to the 42nd power. Thats a 1 with 42 zeros after it. So in other words a statisical impossibility.

GokuSSJ4
09-11-2006, 12:14 PM
This is by far one of the best Threads that we have had in a while... very interesting.....

kcross
09-11-2006, 01:05 PM
underwriters laboratories does not certify structural steel.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Kevin-R-Ryan22nov04.htm

and its easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and say the goverment knew of impending attacks. im sure chris can tell you that information and leads dont always add up to knowing exactly what to expect or what will happen. and even at that this just clouds your arguement, so did osama bin laden do it? why even make it public if its an inside job? the fact is we can only act when presented with the correct information. the united states and nearly every country around the world are under constant threat, it is impossible to deal with every threat. remember we as a nation need to be correct one hundred percent of the time to prevent attacks, the terrorist only have to get it right once. the credibility and amount of information provided weigh heavily on the measures taken given the intel. domestic terror attacks werent the m.o. of any known terror group (when was the last time it happened on actual american soil?) and terrorism wasnt at the forefront of american minds. when it comes down to it they outsmarted us. no one saw this coming.

Chris in SD
09-11-2006, 02:32 PM
I wrote a long-ass reply, but thanks to my friends at Micro$oft and their fine IE product, it took a shit...

Long story short: I have researched it, asked those in the know and those who were there, etc. It's BS.

I work in "national security" issues and I have access to all kinds of stuff some paranoid stoner kids never dreamed of. Unfortunately, like many cool/interesting/scary things, it's not for public consumption. Believe what you want if it makes you sleep better at night. The movie "Syriana" is much closer to reality in the conspiracies I could see happening...

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 02:48 PM
underwriters laboratories does not certify structural steel.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Kevin-R-Ryan22nov04.htm

and its easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and say the goverment knew of impending attacks. im sure chris can tell you that information and leads dont always add up to knowing exactly what to expect or what will happen. and even at that this just clouds your arguement, so did osama bin laden do it? why even make it public if its an inside job? the fact is we can only act when presented with the correct information. the united states and nearly every country around the world are under constant threat, it is impossible to deal with every threat. remember we as a nation need to be correct one hundred percent of the time to prevent attacks, the terrorist only have to get it right once. the credibility and amount of information provided weigh heavily on the measures taken given the intel. domestic terror attacks werent the m.o. of any known terror group (when was the last time it happened on actual american soil?) and terrorism wasnt at the forefront of american minds. when it comes down to it they outsmarted us. no one saw this coming.


First off, yet again you could not be more assumptive. I also like you parroted the exact quote that Donald Rumsfeld used to describe how our National Security policy works.

As for UL certifying the steel. Well if they didn't why would NIST say they did.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

the source of your article is well...Not credible to say the least.

Eckolaker
09-11-2006, 02:52 PM
I wrote a long-ass reply, but thanks to my friends at Micro$oft and their fine IE product, it took a shit...

Long story short: I have researched it, asked those in the know and those who were there, etc. It's BS.

I work in "national security" issues and I have access to all kinds of stuff some paranoid stoner kids never dreamed of. Unfortunately, like many cool/interesting/scary things, it's not for public consumption. Believe what you want if it makes you sleep better at night. The movie "Syriana" is much closer to reality in the conspiracies I could see happening...


So then explain Project Able Danger, Explain Sibel Edmonds testimony. Explain Norman Mineta's testimony. Do explain the CIA, FBI, NORAD, and DoD War games going on that day. Explain why the 9/11 commission didn't have any mention of Pakistan let alone Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmad wire transfer of $100,000 to Mohammad Atta in the weeks before 9/11.

If the key to any investigation is "follow the money" why was this HUGE piece of the puzzle completely ignored by FEMA, Joint Congressional inquiry, and the 9/11 Commission, whos job it was to determine how the events of 9/11 happened and reccomendations on how to prevent them from happening again.

kcross
09-11-2006, 04:08 PM
you know how some people have selective hearing, you apparently have selective reading. from
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm and i quote...

"UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true."

and you want to tell me about the legtiamacy of websites? haha. the only reason used the link i provided was it was the easiest to read. you can find UL's statement its on most of the sites youd probably frequent, and its in other news wire agencies archives.

Chris in SD
09-11-2006, 04:15 PM
I'd like to know your sources for your research. *Did you read it on the Internet somewhere? *Some slick video you saw?

I am not trying to bury this in sarcasm, but unless you've seen the actual docs (like I have), spoken in person to the actual people involved (like I have), I have a hard time believing it. *

When genrec (Jeff) posted that vid for the first time, I definitely took a look and checked around @ work. *Let's just eyes could not stop rolling and I was given a quick and dirty on some stuff. *I wouldn't lie to you guys - this is truth. *Like I said before, if you sleep better at night thinking the government is out to get you, so be it.

Terry S
09-11-2006, 04:49 PM
you know how some people have selective hearing, you apparently have selective reading. from
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm and i quote...

"UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true."

and you want to tell me about the legtiamacy of websites? haha. the only reason used the link i provided was it was the easiest to read. you can find UL's statement its on most of the sites youd probably frequent, and its in other news wire agencies archives.


PWNZED by the same reference I was going to point out. O0 kcross.

And Eckolaker, why are you asking for answers from the people who you've already said provide bad answers? (your asking for government answers that suit your theories instead of the ones they've already given that contradict your theories)

Terry S