Tuning boost controller...

[xEviLxVIIIx]

I just installed my new boost controller(world electronics) where you can adjust/tune the Ramp, duty cycle and gain for the boost curve. Has anyone tuned their boost curve with these functions that can help me? any help or insight would be appreciated.

thanks

[TrickedOutEVOVIII]

i have plenty of experience with gain settings charles, but my bc doesnt have ramp or duty cylce.

T

[Blaze]

I have an article in IT or Modified that describes how to tune a GReddy Profec. If I can dig it out this weekend, I'll scan it and post it up. (Not certain how relavent it will be as your controller is somewhat unique).

I would suggest phoning the manufacturer, but then please follow up and post your findings.

Regards,

Blaze

[trinydex]

sounds good, we've never had an ebc tuning optomization discussion before.

[xEviLxVIIIx]

thanks for the replies guys, im still trying to learn this thing and will let you guys know what the outcome is.

Jason, if you can find that article, please post. may help alot. thanks

[gt40]

I look forward to seeing if you have any luck.Â* I am trying an AEM tru-boost ebc(thanks mikew) and revisiting just using my apexi solenoid with the aem ems and comparing it to the new aem solenoid.Â* I had the apexi running okay but was seduced by the simplicity of the dejon tool mbc.Â*

I am getting a bit of taper with my current setup and curious if an ebc can make any difference...

[GokuSSJ4]

I look forward to seeing if you have any luck. I am trying an AEM tru-boost ebc(thanks mikew) and revisiting just using my apexi solenoid with the aem ems and comparing it to the new aem solenoid. I had the apexi running okay but was seduced by the simplicity of the dejon tool mbc.

I am getting a bit of taper with my current setup and curious if an ebc can make any difference...
i'm glad your the guinea pig behind this test LOL , since i have been looking foward to see what results are obtain with the new AEM boost controller.. :) keep us updated

[Crash]

I look forward to seeing if you have any luck. I am trying an AEM tru-boost ebc(thanks mikew) and revisiting just using my apexi solenoid with the aem ems and comparing it to the new aem solenoid. I had the apexi running okay but was seduced by the simplicity of the dejon tool mbc.

I am getting a bit of taper with my current setup and curious if an ebc can make any difference...


I went from a taper from 22 to 17 (5psi) to a taper from 23 to 20.5 (2psi) with the aem tru boost 14.5 wastegate crack 62 duty cycle. Stage 1 evo ix I had to pull a deg or 2 timing above 5500 rpm to redline (just cleanup dont like knock sums over 5 call me anal) for 91 to avoid knock from the previous tune, thats how much of a change an ebc can make. It also felt like the turbo spooled up a bit quicker, may be in my head though but it felt like the car spiked faster. I honestly think a well tuned ebc is worth the extra 150 - 200 over an mbc. especially something like a tru boost that is also a guage which helped me kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Mbc should only be considered for the budget minded person. My next mod will probably be a lower intercooler pipe, I wonder if the taper will be any less with that.

my 2 cents

[BHCevo]

I'm guessing gain is just the linear (scalar) gain on the feedback, in which case
1) the higher the gain the quicker you hit and stabilizeÂ* at full boost but the more overshoot (spike) you'll get
2) You want the lowest gain that still lets you build full boost stably and quickly.

Duty cycle might possibly be the full boost duty cycle in which case this setting would just determine the full boost level.

No idea what ramp is. If this was an industrial PID controller then RAMP would allow for a full-boost target that you ramped over time. No reason this should exist in a car though..I think.

All this is just speculation though contact the manufacturer is your best bet.

[tabio42]

Any updates? Maybe from GT40? Btw were you running the dejon on your external wastegate?

[xEviLxVIIIx]

Any updates? Maybe from GT40? Btw were you running the dejon on your external wastegate?


Yes, i was using dejon before i got the EBC. I still really dont know how to tune it precisely and get everything out of it. I just got it to where it spikes and holds boost where i want it but i know it can still be more finely tuned.

[evomrguy]

Yeah but dude dont you only taper now like 1.5 psi? Thats good for the stock turbo. I dont think that you could dial in the bc any better, I think you should be looking at the turbo now.

[trinydex]

if you squeeze the wastegate shut you're just gonna make more pissed off air.

[leaveit2bevo]

anyone had any luck with the new aem?

[trinydex]

i'm getting it.

[leaveit2bevo]

to try it out or you have heard good shit? Im in need on a bc of some kind of a ebc with gauge is nice.

[trinydex]

i heard good shit, i'll prolly post a review and some info once i use it.

[xEviLxVIIIx]

the one i have is pretty nice, just not the best looking haha, but it displays boost by .5 psi increments( i think up to 60psi) , can record boost (also peak boost) up to 15 seconds i believe and play back in .2 second increments. It can also have scramble boost, but i didnt hook that up.

[Terry S]

Bumping this back up for first-hand impressions on the AEM TRU-BOOST setup.

Also, does anyone have any first-hand opinions regarding the quality of the plain AEM Boost Guage (the non EBC version).

I have an AEM UEGO and I kinda want to keep the same gauge look if I decide to install gauges.

Thx.

Terry S

[BHCevo]

I have an AEM tru-boost gauge/controller. A few things:

It offers basic ebc functionality at a rock-bottom price (for an ebc).

You don't get: cool displays, true feedback control, rpm or gear dependent boost adjustment

You do get: boost gauge with peak function. Two boost settings. Boost control solenoid with adjustable duty cycle (every ebc offers this). Some small ability to correct for boost taper/creep in realtime.

Things I don't like: AEM unit requires running vacuum line into cabin to the gauge. Bleah. Put independent pressure sender inside the engine bay please.

I ran the AEM unit for a few months. Worked okay. Still couldn't hold high boost (1.4bar or higher) at redline on the stock IX turbo and wastegate actuator.

I'm using the apexi avc-r right now. Installed it myself. It basically works just like the aem tru-boost but...

1) Holds higher boost till redline. Still can't eliminate taper completely.
2) Plots boost/solenoid duty cycle in realtime on display. Very useful for figuring out what your solenoid is
doing to combat boost taper.
3) Much better partial throttle boost response.
4) Better feedback control. See 1 above.
5) Provides gear dependent spike correction. Not using this.
6) Provides rpm dependent boost/duty cycle tuning. Not using this.
7) Costs twice as much.

[earlyapex]

I ran the AEM unit for a few months. Worked okay. Still couldn't hold high boost (1.4bar or higher) at redline on the stock IX turbo and wastegate actuator.


You are going to be hard pressed to hold more than 20psi on the stock turbo with any form of boost control.

[BHCevo]

Yeah I've heard this before. I've got my own reasons for verifying it.

So far neither the AEM unit or the avc-r could hold better than 1.4 bar at redline in 3rd gear. The avc-r does slightly better.

You can see the solenoid duty cycle maxing out at 90% by 5k rpms on the avc-r while its trying to fight boost taper.

I'll try a stiffer wastegate actuator next. Some guy on evom also held 240 load till redline using stock boost control (with a smaller restrictor) and ecuflash. Had a log and everything...was impressive.

[trinydex]

Things I don't like: AEM unit requires running vacuum line into cabin to the gauge. Bleah. Put independent pressure sender inside the engine bay please.
run the 5 bar map sensor... i do

[earlyapex]

Some guy on evom also held 240 load till redline using stock boost control (with a smaller restrictor) and ecuflash. Had a log and everything...was impressive.


yes the stock BCS system works well with a upgrade pill. You can also upgrade the solenoid and get even faster response.

here is a catted 03 evo 8 with an upgraded solenoid, could have held and run more boost but I run less boost on catted cars, however its a good example on the level of control you can get with a closed-loop and RPM and load based boost control system: (green is boost)

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_tunes/dave_matz/d_matz_afr_boost.jpg

A evo 9 with stock BCS and upgrade pill, again boost was tapered because 91 octane gets a little cranky with higher boost up top on the stock turbo:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_tunes/ben_acosta/afr_boost.jpg

A evo 9 with stock downpipe and cat, just catback and filter, custom curve for this car because of such few flow mods, this is using the stock BCS system with upgraded pill:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_tunes/kyle_m/kyle_m_afr_boost.jpg

[Terry S]

Which solenoid do you upgrade to?

Terry S

[earlyapex]

Which solenoid do you upgrade to?

Terry S


GM / AC-delco 3-port - Approx $35 with everything.

The Perrin unit also works but costs $60+ more.

Upgrading the stock pill costs about $10-20 depending on the machine shop, even less if u can do it yourself.

[Terry S]

Your up in NorCal though right? :(

Terry S

[earlyapex]

Your up in NorCal though right? :(

Terry S


Yup, but you can tune boost yourself if you have a tactrix cable and a laptop and are comfortable with it.

[j_nizzle]

Your up in NorCal though right? :(

Terry S


Yup, but you can tune boost yourself if you have a tactrix cable and a laptop and are comfortable with it.


getting too comfortable with my laptop isnt exactly something i'd do in public.

[Terry S]

Your up in NorCal though right? :(

Terry S


Yup, but you can tune boost yourself if you have a tactrix cable and a laptop and are comfortable with it.


I got 2 of the three... :P

And the restrictor pill modification you are refering to is similar to the How-To on EvoM right?

Terry S

[earlyapex]

I got 2 of the three... :P

And the restrictor pill modification you are refering to is similar to the How-To on EvoM right?

Terry S


Yup :) It's actually a whole new compressor side pill. Replaces the stock one with one with a smaller hole.

[trinydex]

can't you just buy a restrictor with a small hole? they have those in help at pep boys.

is the upgraded solenoid plug and play?

[earlyapex]

can't you just buy a restrictor with a small hole? they have those in help at pep boys.

is the upgraded solenoid plug and play?


If you can find one the right size, knock yourself out. :)

The solenoid is unfortunatly not plug and play. You either have to solder or tap into the exsisting harness. I actually spoke to the company who makes the Male plug for the evo for the stock BCS, a female one doesn't exist. :(

[BHCevo]

I think I'm going to try putting a smaller restrictor pill inside the vacuum line to turbo instead of upgrading my wastegate actuator. The theory suggest it should work the same...either get stiffer spring or drop the boost the spring sees by a constant factor.

It works for the stock boost control should work the same on my avc-r setup. I'll let you guys know. Beats buying a $170 actuator and installing it.

The how-to on evom suggests buying some 3/16 aluminum rod stock, cutting a piece a few cm long then drilling a hole through its center (axially). The hole size should be wire gauge sizes (#60 for high boost, #57 for near stock boost). Put this in the vacuum line leading to compressor side.

[BHCevo]

Well I put a restrictor in the compressor line. Initial results seem to be promising.

Will do some logging and report back.

[BHCevo]

Well the restrictor idea definitely helps keep my solenoid duty cycle lower for the same amount of boost.

I definitely recommend this idea for anyone using an ebc who finds their solenoid duty cycles operating too close to 100%. Helps the ebc performance a lot to keep the duty cycles near 50%.

However...still can't hold big boost till redline. I'm still at 1.45 bar at redline. I am holding a LOT more midrange boost though.

So I was halfright...the stock turbo had more in it that an advanced boost controller helped bring out. But After about 5.5k or so the stock turbo just runs out of steam.

Hmm..I need to go dyno my car now.

[kimletrim]

So we put in a restrictor in the boost line to get more boost? Back in the day on 2G DSM, people were taking out restrictor pills to get more boost.

[earlyapex]

So we put in a restrictor in the boost line to get more boost? Back in the day on 2G DSM, people were taking out restrictor pills to get more boost.


You can do that too on the evo. If you take out the solenoid side pill it will raise boost but needs some tlc to bring boost spikes down. The best option is changing the compressor housing side pill to one with a smaller restriction.

[kimletrim]

^^thanks for the clarification

[BHCevo]

The evo stock bcs has a solenoid that works to vent line pressure from the compressor to the wastegate actuator.

In this setup the restrictor immediately before the solenoid works to raise line pressure to the wastegate actuator. Removing it will thus lower pressure to the wastegate actuator and delay its actuation, thus RAISING boost.

There is another restrictor further down line closer to the compressor and before the T junction. This restrictor works to lower line pressure to the wastegate actuator. Removing it will thus increase line pressure to the actuator and case it to crack earlier, thus LOWERING boost.

The restrictor I added to my apexi setup worked like the 2nd case I described above.

In any case, a restrictor will cause a drop in pressure as air moves through it. This knowledge, combined with a schematic of the vacuum lines (both stock and apexi setups) was sufficient for me to figure out what the various restrictors were doing and what their removal or addition would accomplish.