Muellerized Evo Laguna Seca Viper Beatdown

[Muellerized...]

Quote from: slider on Yesterday at 11:39:57 AM
Oh, then please tell me the "true story".

Ok, no problem, the true story is this, please download the video locally using right click,"save target as"

The weekend started with the Super Production race, Kent qualified 4th overall, second in class in SP in a strong field including 2 time GT-1 National Champion Lew Larimer, then makes a galactically ballsy move to 2nd overall in turn 2. Our car gets roughed up with some contact at the exit of turn 2, bending the valve stem which continued to hold air for the next race as well, and also breaking the rear bumper cover. Kent runs the rest of the race (which was run back to back with ITE race 1) strongly, finishing 2nd in SP clinching the season points title. Snake boy finishes half a lap behind Kent, never challenging anyone at the front of the field thruout the race. My team then refuels snake boy's car between races, making sure our strongest competition out of the 3 vipers that are running has no excuses about not being ready for ITE race 1.
http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/Laguna_Seca/Laguna%2010-1-06%20SP%20Race.wmv

ITE Race 1, snake boy gets the jump at the start, Kent makes the snake boy his little bitch in turn 2, snake boy keeps it close for 3 laps than race over, Kent pulls away never to be challenged again.
http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/Laguna_Seca/Laguna%2010-1-06%20ITE%20Race%201.wmv

ITE Race 2, snake boy was late on the green flag, Kent blasts away setting new race lap record, increasing his lead every lap of the 30 minute race, margin of victory 26 seconds.
http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/Laguna_Seca/Laguna%2010-1-06%20ITE%20Race%202.wmv

ITE Race 3, snake boy gets the jump at the start, Kent overshoots turn 2, losing some ground. Kent has more speed but follows instructions from his pit to just follow the snake boy until he makes a mistake, which he does in turn 5, handing Kent the lead. We decided to be conservative due to our position in the season points championship, using patience to make an easy pass, instead of risking it all trying to make a bold move in the first 5 laps of the race.
Then the snake car fell apart, ending his weekend not only defeated in every event by a wide margin, but broken as well. The reality of the weekend is snake boy can run 1 or 2 fast laps over a race distance, and it takes a lot more than just that to beat our team.
http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/Laguna_Seca/Laguna%2010-1-06%20ITE%20Race%203.wmv

[Miss Evo8]

Mullerized Evo > all.......
;)


"Snake Boi" hahahaha.....

[ArBizZzLe]

hahahha can't wait to see this at home after work today lolll.

awesome stuff!

[Mannyc]

Cool videos.Â* Consider the first 3 races as practice, since this was my first time to Laguna Seca -- figure we got a little less track time than you would get at a typical club event to get famliar with things.Â* I had mechanical issue with the car scraping everywhere, the officials came complaining about your car/driver jumping the restart, etc.Â* So the first 3 races I'm not going to comment on -- they were what they were and I had nothing for you.Â*

By the final ITE Race, it was on.Â* I can see clearly from the video that I am pretty slow in turn 2 and in the corkscrew, with lots of improvements to be found everywhere else.Â* Â*I just need a few more sessions there and I should be good to go.

Also, I don't feel I made a typical mistake in turn 5 of this race.Â* I knew you were back there and wasn't driving in my mirrors, and I was fairly confident you were telling your driver to just try to pressure me into making a mistake.Â* What happened there was the power steering wouldn't let me turn, distracting me big time since I was also braking (so that got a bit hosed up too), and then it (power steering) snapped back on and off and on causing me to jerk the steering wheel over and rotate the car.Â* It's unbelievable how much strength you need to turn the car without power steering, and then when it comes on it's like playing tug of war with somebody and them letting the rope go.Â* Your video doesn't show it but I am fighting with it for about 5 seconds through turn 5.Â* I debated whether to continue or not and did so for a couple more laps until the bracket that holds the water pump belt completely came apart and flew off and onto the track and was run over by my fellow racers.Â* I was cursed with some bad luck, otherwise the Mueller Evo streak would have ended at race #22 I think.Â* I didn''t feel pressured at all after the 3rd lap and was starting to relax.Â* Not sure if Kent felt relaxed or not being in the #2 spot for the 5 or 6 laps it was.

Keep in mind too that sound was lowered to 101 db in that race and I had previously been hitting around 102 db (under the 103 limite of the earlier races) soÂ* I had no choice but to be slow up past turn 5 where the sound booth was.Â* If I could have down shifted and stayed on the gas, it would have been beautiful.Â* The torque of the Viper really shines when going up inclines. Your car brakes like a mofo and I have nothing for you there -- you can brake so deep into turn 2 that is is crazy.

I was a pup trying to figure out my environment and lost to the ITE champ in the end. Good job racing and keeping it together.Â* Can't wait to be back on the track with you guys somewhere.Â* I'm guessing Kent will feel confident next time since he won, but I feel very confident as well for our next run. I hope it can be at a track that is a bit closer to San Diego.

Cheers!

-Manny

[slider]

Hey, that's cute, Manny has a new name....."snake boy"! Too bad it doesn't ryhme with BITCH!!!!

[Mannyc]

Tough talk. Come down to the SoCal tracks and let the beatings begin. I'm bringing a vacuum to suck out the 10 pounds of dirt my car seems to accumulate in the air filter when you're trying to stay on the track.

[slider]

Tough talk. Come down to the SoCal tracks and let the beatings begin. I'm bringing a vacuum to suck out the 10 pounds of dirt my car seems to accumulate in the air filter when you're trying to stay on the track.


Wipe the tears from your eyes while watching the vids and you'll see plenty of sand/dirt on the track before we even start the race SO QUIT WITH THE EXCUSES!!!

But it's sure nice to know that a little dirt bothers you....

[Muellerized...]

until the bracket that holds the water pump belt completely came apart and flew off and onto the track and was run over by my fellow racers. Â*I was cursed with some bad luck, otherwise the Mueller Evo streak would have ended at race #22 I think. Â*I didn''t feel pressured at all after the 3rd lap and was starting to relax. Â*

Keep in mind too that sound was lowered to 101 db in that race and I had previously been hitting around 102 db (under the 103 limite of the earlier races) so Â*I had no choice but to be slow up past turn 5 where the sound booth was. Â*If I could have down shifted
Would have, could have, should have ended the streak if my parts were not littering the racecourse. Hahahahaha!
Like we have not heard that sad old story before, you should do your snake boy stand up routine more often!

We had another layer of performance left, but absolutely no reason to use it with how inconsistent your lap times had been in every session thru the entire weekend, too bad you did not give us any reason to run our car harder.

Sound control is the same for everyone, and the rules at Laguna have been the same for many, many years. Excuses don't matter, results do, better luck next time.

[Dmoney]

Awesome Vids!

Kents Entrance, Follow Through and Exit speeds are incredible! I like how Kent choses his own line instead following the vipers line in front.

How Stiff/Soft are the supension settings for Kents car on this track?

[Muellerized...]

How Stiff/Soft are the supension settings for Kents car on this track?

We run Moton 3-way adjustable Motorsport struts/shocks on our Evo. Laguna is a hard course to grab ahold of, as the surface is fairly smooth, but the quick set concrete patches are very slippery when the weather is cold and damp like this past weekend. You need to be stiff enough to not bottom out with the steep hills, and soft enough to have a reasonable level of grip with the slippery surface.

[gevo]

nice vids!....especially 4th vid 8)

[MRevo9]

i have to wait till i get home to watch them


good job O0

[Barfly]

Great job Kent and the Muellerized crew. O0

Thanks for posting the video.

[earlyapex]

Some seriously nice out-braking going on there. Nice driving both of you guys!

[Mannyc]

until the bracket that holds the water pump belt completely came apart and flew off and onto the track and was run over by my fellow racers.Â* I was cursed with some bad luck, otherwise the Mueller Evo streak would have ended at race #22 I think.Â* I didn''t feel pressured at all after the 3rd lap and was starting to relax.Â*

Keep in mind too that sound was lowered to 101 db in that race and I had previously been hitting around 102 db (under the 103 limite of the earlier races) soÂ* I had no choice but to be slow up past turn 5 where the sound booth was.Â* If I could have down shifted
Would have, could have, should have ended the streak if my parts were not littering the racecourse. Hahahahaha!
Like we have not heard that sad old story before, you should do your snake boy stand up routine more often!

We had another layer of performance left, but absolutely no reason to use it with how inconsistent your lap times had been in every session thru the entire weekend, too bad you did not give us any reason to run our car harder.

Sound control is the same for everyone, and the rules at Laguna have been the same for many, many years. Excuses don't matter, results do, better luck next time.


I didn't blow sound the last time I ran SCCA at Button Willow, so I thought I was good to go.Â* I guess the colder, cloudy weather at Laguna screwed me over.

As for another Layer of performance left, BAHAHAHA!Â* :uglystupid2: :uglystupid2: :uglystupid2:

How lucky are you that on the last race of the weekend, as you're getting beat up, I end up breaking -- and I break a part that I didn't even know could break.Â* Extra performance?Â* Pffffft!Â*

When's the next time you guys will be here in So Cal?Â* I predict not only a win on my part, but a terrible beat down for your car, driver and team.. .and yes, that's with your super duper 'extra performance' setting.Â* So when's the date?

[Richard EVO]

I watched 'em all. Very nice. At least the Viper is some competition. Some of those other cars like the Miata, old RX-7, etc. look like they are driving in reverse when Kent passes them. ITE is a weird class with huge disparities between the capabilities of the cars.

[Blak94GSX]

There are multiple classes running at the same time. The fast cars are ITE, the rest are ITS or slower classes, like the RX7s.

[Muellerized...]

How lucky are you that on the last race of the weekend, as you're getting beat up, I end up breaking -- and I break a part that I didn't even know could break. Â*Extra performance? Â*Pffffft! Â*

I don't call a 1 second interval getting beat up, we were allowing room to drive around the parts falling off of your hoopty. Winners need to run all of the laps, not just lead the first 4.

[Richard EVO]

There are multiple classes running at the same time. The fast cars are ITE, the rest are ITS or slower classes, like the RX7s.


Scot -

Oh. Thanks for letting me know.Â* Shows you what I know about actual racing.

John -

"hoopty"??Â* lmfaoÂ* :2funny:

[ArBizZzLe]

John was it just me or did Kent kinda clip the viper around one of the last turns in the 4th vid ?


That shit was insane! Great job!

[Skiracer]

I think Kent wanted to give the viper a new pinstripe job O0

[erikdfier]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:

[mkibort]

What it takes is a 928 and someone that knows laguna seca!

Next year, if you guys decide to run, your winning streak will have stopped at 24.

look out for the 21 year old 928 with the stroker engine and used tires and headers. everything else shade tree mechanic stock! (still driven to and from the track!)

ha ha!

I still love you guys! see you at the end of the month at Laguna's grand finale.

MK



Quote from: slider on Yesterday at 11:39:57 AM
Oh, then please tell me the "true story".

The reality of the weekend is snake boy can run 1 or 2 fast laps over a race distance, and it takes a lot more than just that to beat our team.

[Ricardon]

lawlforumsrfun2raceon!!!!11one

[Mannyc]

Getting Kent to get the Evo down into the 1:26's at Willow Springs consistently is like Kent winning the Limbo championship.Â* Â* :2funny:

Still waiting to here when you guys will be out this way.Â* No, seriously. I have lot o' love to dish out.Â* Â*:smitten: :smitten: :smitten:

M

[mkibort]

Kent,

Just watched the video. Â*Man, your hands have improved 1000%!! Â*nice drive. Â*just a little messy down the corkscrew, and Â*a little at turn 11. Â* no wonder you spun a 1:34!

Manny, nice drive as well. especially that lap 1 of the 3rd race. Finally, a good battle up front.
However we will have to call turn 2 "Viper parking lot" Â* Its ok, laguna is an acquired Â*taste, especially turn 2. you loose probably 10 car lengths at turn 2 to the Evo. Â* the rest is pretty darn good! Â*Man, that beast has some power!!!

My 3rd place video of you guys is good too, until you guys vaporize after a few laps. (scotty, i need more power!!)

Great seeing you guys out there. Â*Thanks for posting the video. good stuff!
btw, stop cutting the corners, you make a mess of the track! (and i dont think its any faster for you, but it sure slows me down!)

MK

[evobeaner]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


well if that's all it takes i will be a flying at laguna.
my evo 8 rs does it in the 1'15.xxx range with no nitrous on GT4! :grin:

[mkibort]

I would bet he is pretty close to 1:26 now at Willow springs

I dont think he has been there in a real long time, has he?

too busy beating up on the rest of us ITE folks up here with stock race cars!

mk



Unless Kent can get the Evo down into the 1:26's at Willow Springs consistently, he would get owned, no matter what corners he cut. Getting below 1:26's on DOT tires starts getting really, really hard.

Still waiting to here when you guys will be out this way.

M

[Mannyc]

Mark, can you post your video?
-Manny

[hagakure]

MK.....

You really need to get another car man, so you can stop lamenting having a 21 year old "stock" racecar...I had my Evo up for sale for a while...you should have bought it...:)

[GunterS]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????

[GunterS]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


about the dirt..... i am curious what kent has to say about throwing all the dirt on the track in front of other races that don't have the security of all wheel drive? i know that when i go off in the dirt and put dirt on the track i feel like an a**hole. i'm not saying that kent is an a**hole, i actually enjoy seeing kents happy face at any track. he is a really pleasant guy. but i know that when i go off and bring crap back on the track i feel terrible and i throw my hand out the window to say sorry. i guess i just feel bad and i dont want the guy behind me to think i did it on purpose. buf if kent had his hand out the window to say sorry for everytime he put dirt on the track then he would never have been able to shift out of gear. i know that the dirt didn't win the race for him but i just wonder what the rule book says about hitting the dirt in every turn that has dirt? i know that if i had a chance to be behind someone of equal speed and was battling it out with them every turn, i would be pissed off at the end of the race at how much dirt was thrown in my face. again i am not saying that manny was battling kent the entire race. at least i know for sure after the evo jumped the green flag after the double yellow, manny was too far behind to see the dust.

[GokuSSJ4]

great videos!!
its nice to see some footage on some of the works you guys performed every weekend.. I still remember the first time i saw Kent at SoW with his brand spanking new JICs suspension.. Took me for a lap or 2, its amazing how much you have improve and continue to get faster...
Manny
great work and great driving !!

[GokuSSJ4]

Kent,

Just watched the video. Man, your hands have improved 1000%!! nice drive. just a little messy down the corkscrew, and a little at turn 11. no wonder you spun a 1:34!

Manny, nice drive as well. especially that lap 1 of the 3rd race. Finally, a good battle up front.
However we will have to call turn 2 "Viper parking lot" Its ok, laguna is an acquired taste, especially turn 2. you loose probably 10 car lengths at turn 2 to the Evo. the rest is pretty darn good! Man, that beast has some power!!!

My 3rd place video of you guys is good too, until you guys vaporize after a few laps. (scotty, i need more power!!)



MK

I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it

[slider]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


Â* The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.)Â* Â*We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Â* Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend?Â* You were actually a tenth faster than Manny.Â* He's you're bitch too!!Â* I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

Â* When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move.Â* Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be butÂ* I could be wrong.

[slider]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


about the dirt..... i am curious what kent has to say about throwing all the dirt on the track in front of other races that don't have the security of all wheel drive? i know that when i go off in the dirt and put dirt on the track i feel like an a**hole. i'm not saying that kent is an a**hole, i actually enjoy seeing kents happy face at any track. he is a really pleasant guy. but i know that when i go off and bring crap back on the track i feel terrible and i throw my hand out the window to say sorry. i guess i just feel bad and i dont want the guy behind me to think i did it on purpose. buf if kent had his hand out the window to say sorry for everytime he put dirt on the track then he would never have been able to shift out of gear. i know that the dirt didn't win the race for him but i just wonder what the rule book says about hitting the dirt in every turn that has dirt? i know that if i had a chance to be behind someone of equal speed and was battling it out with them every turn, i would be pissed off at the end of the race at how much dirt was thrown in my face. again i am not saying that manny was battling kent the entire race. at least i know for sure after the evo jumped the green flag after the double yellow, manny was too far behind to see the dust.


This whole race season I've managed to keep the car on track(with the exception of 1 BIG off, in the rain, at Infineon). There have been plenty of times, PLENTY, when I'll get wide on exit and get two wheels off but I just stay on the throttle. The Evo requires the driver to stay on the throttle.

If I'm racing and enter a turn early GENERALLY I'll keep the line EVEN IF MEANS GOING INTO THE DIRT or up and over curbs cuz it produces a faster, albeit dirtier, lap. If it also slows down the competition all the better. If that sounds bad sorry but that's racing/qualifying. I don't intentionally kick shit up during track days though(or practice)!!

Hell, if I'm racing and need to get by slower traffic/competition I'll put two wheels REAL deep into the shit if it helps me make the pass.

Maybe I'm spoiled driving all wheel drive cuz I don't pay much heed to a little bit of dirt/sand on the track. I actually like the stuff. It slow down the competition more than me. That's good!!

By jumping the green your refering to the restart. I didn't jump anything my friend. I nailed the throttle when I saw the green flag. I must have superior vision.

[mkibort]

You think it would be faster than mine? remember i still drive it to the track, and have to fit all the tires in too! (928 = porsche stationwagon)

Now, keep in mind, all i need to do is stick a $5000 6.5 liter shortbock in my car and get right up on Kents tail! Its not a guess either, ive driven 3 of these 928s, same as mine but with the engine short block change.

Mk



MK.....

You really need to get another car man, so you can stop lamenting having a 21 year old "stock" racecar...I had my Evo up for sale for a while...you should have bought it...:)

[mkibort]

i remember when i beat kent before he started bolting on more power, etc, and they had to go to a smaller caliper and were complaining of braking capabilities. those brakes he put on are the same i use every day and havent touched since the car was made in 1986! all i do is use pagid Orange racing pads.

The way to make the vipers stop faster, is to tighten that little nut that sits right behind the sterring wheel!! Ha ha

Manny and i are going to go over some of this later!

MK





Kent,

Just watched the video. Man, your hands have improved 1000%!! nice drive. just a little messy down the corkscrew, and a little at turn 11. no wonder you spun a 1:34!

Manny, nice drive as well. especially that lap 1 of the 3rd race. Finally, a good battle up front.
However we will have to call turn 2 "Viper parking lot" Its ok, laguna is an acquired taste, especially turn 2. you loose probably 10 car lengths at turn 2 to the Evo. the rest is pretty darn good! Man, that beast has some power!!!

My 3rd place video of you guys is good too, until you guys vaporize after a few laps. (scotty, i need more power!!)



MK

I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it

[Mannyc]

I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Â* Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Â*Each car has its stengths. Â*The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Â*Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M

[Mannyc]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.) We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend? You were actually a tenth faster than Manny. He's you're bitch too!! I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move. Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be but I could be wrong.






NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.) We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend? You were actually a tenth faster than Manny. He's you're bitch too!! I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move. Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be but I could be wrong.


Gunter was hauling ass and did end up beating my time, with LESS track time than me since his car broke for a whole day. He was da man and would have been a terror up in the front. And I agree with you, I think I am more tentative in traffic than Gunter is. He's got some really GOOOOOD natural ability on the track, so watch out for him. If you saw him pass some of those cars, you would think he has some kind of super optical ability to know the width of his car down to the last centimeter. How he didn't take off his or other cars mirrors is mind boggling. I look forward to running against Gunter at NASA in 4 weeks - FUN FUN FUN. Maybe some of that passing skill will rub off on me.

[GunterS]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.) We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend? You were actually a tenth faster than Manny. He's you're bitch too!! I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move. Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be but I could be wrong.

did i tell you that i love traffic? I almost would rather start in the back and come through the traffic. the problem is that if i am racing against some real competition then it would be impossible (for mr) to ever get a podium spot if i start 60 cars back. I know about my lap time. i think that's all i need to say about that :)
about the restart...hmm.. i don't consider my self a "smacker" (i think that is the funniest term) so i think it was poor judgment on my part to even bring up the restart. BUT i know what i saw and i know what i heard. maybe John can post the video of the restart with audio and we could actually hear your throttle while we watch the green flag wave. i don't think we will see that. i had the luxury to break the input shaft on my transmission and i came into the pits on the first race. After my car was towed in to my coach i went up to the tower to watch you two race. I was trying to be Manny's radio guy but his radio wasn't working. So i was standing up there to watch the restart. I also heard the explanation (excuse) that John gave Boris (the head steward down in the tech area). So lets see the video. If it shows a clean restart then i will give you a sincere appology for my accusations but if it shows a jump then i think you should drop off your trophy at manny's house.

[GunterS]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


about the dirt..... i am curious what kent has to say about throwing all the dirt on the track in front of other races that don't have the security of all wheel drive? i know that when i go off in the dirt and put dirt on the track i feel like an a**hole. i'm not saying that kent is an a**hole, i actually enjoy seeing kents happy face at any track. he is a really pleasant guy. but i know that when i go off and bring crap back on the track i feel terrible and i throw my hand out the window to say sorry. i guess i just feel bad and i dont want the guy behind me to think i did it on purpose. buf if kent had his hand out the window to say sorry for everytime he put dirt on the track then he would never have been able to shift out of gear. i know that the dirt didn't win the race for him but i just wonder what the rule book says about hitting the dirt in every turn that has dirt? i know that if i had a chance to be behind someone of equal speed and was battling it out with them every turn, i would be pissed off at the end of the race at how much dirt was thrown in my face. again i am not saying that manny was battling kent the entire race. at least i know for sure after the evo jumped the green flag after the double yellow, manny was too far behind to see the dust.


This whole race season I've managed to keep the car on track(with the exception of 1 BIG off, in the rain, at Infineon). There have been plenty of times, PLENTY, when I'll get wide on exit and get two wheels off but I just stay on the throttle. The Evo requires the driver to stay on the throttle.

If I'm racing and enter a turn early GENERALLY I'll keep the line EVEN IF MEANS GOING INTO THE DIRT or up and over curbs cuz it produces a faster, albeit dirtier, lap. If it also slows down the competition all the better. If that sounds bad sorry but that's racing/qualifying. I don't intentionally kick shit up during track days though(or practice)!!

Hell, if I'm racing and need to get by slower traffic/competition I'll put two wheels REAL deep into the shit if it helps me make the pass.

Maybe I'm spoiled driving all wheel drive cuz I don't pay much heed to a little bit of dirt/sand on the track. I actually like the stuff. It slow down the competition more than me. That's good!!

By jumping the green your refering to the restart. I didn't jump anything my friend. I nailed the throttle when I saw the green flag. I must have superior vision.

:) thanks for your response. now i know how you feel. cool. :)

[GunterS]

NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.) We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend? You were actually a tenth faster than Manny. He's you're bitch too!! I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move. Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be but I could be wrong.






NO disrespect directed here because anyone who pushes their cars to the brink of destruction gets my full respect. Mueller, Good work on avoiding a collision in that SP race turn 2 hairpin.. Yikes.

I bet you worried abit when Manny crushed your best time and then realized his Viper was pulling you everywhere. Yeah, you ran 1/2 second faster and re-set the record later. But, if you cant beat a 1st timer there.. on your local track :oops:. Based on all 3 videos, you were dirt womping quite abit too.

So bring the Super Evo back down to Willow Springs... Sux you cant practice that road-course on a console game like Forza. Since thats all it took for MannyC to break the ITE record at Laguna Seca on :2funny:


i thought that was kind of funny too. manny came into my motorhome talking about his track record and i didnt tell him but i was totally shocked. he kept asking me to race XBox with him and i didnt have time, but i think it totally helped. he broke the track record on his first time at a track. thats pretty crazy.
i wonder if the evo could do that?????


The evo DID do that last season during our first go at Infineon(if my memory serves me.) We set new qualifying and race lap records.

Gunter, did you know that YOU posted the fastest laptime of all the Vipers all weekend? You were actually a tenth faster than Manny. He's you're bitch too!! I watched you race Sunday in SP from the balcony with your old lady and Manny and you were moving pretty good thru traffic till you offed at 4.

When Manny had the lead in the final race our plan was to wait till we got caught up with traffic till we made a move. Manny, I think, was a bit more tentative in traffic than you seemed to be but I could be wrong.


Gunter was hauling ass and did end up beating my time, with LESS track time than me since his car broke for a whole day. He was da man and would have been a terror up in the front. And I agree with you, I think I am more tentative in traffic than Gunter is. He's got some really GOOOOOD natural ability on the track, so watch out for him. If you saw him pass some of those cars, you would think he has some kind of super optical ability to know the width of his car down to the last centimeter. How he didn't take off his or other cars mirrors is mind boggling. I look forward to running against Gunter at NASA in 4 weeks - FUN FUN FUN. Maybe some of that passing skill will rub off on me.



:) thanks
but i wish i could tell you what i do to get through traffic but i have no idea. i just GO. and hopefully i get through.:)

[GokuSSJ4]

I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M

Ok.. but even so.. would it be too much in order to add more stopping power to the race car ?? regardless how old it is, since its a race car and like some one told me "you can never have enough brakes" i figure the more power you add, the better your braking system should be in order to stop all that speed that is being added to it, dont you think ?

[mkibort]

You dont suck, its your first time here!!

you go wide to the right, keep it floored all the way down the hill and trail brake, and you will out brake the evo!. Kent is parking it a bit too! trust me, if my car with no tune up, stock ecu, stock brakes, no adjustments of suspension in 5 years, not even a twist on a shock, can run 1:39, you can run 1:32s. watch the guys that show up next week at laguna . the 20th place guys will be in the 1:34s! (and there will be plenty of vipers to go around)
weight wise, im sure you are in the 3000-3100lb base car range, the evo is tipping near 2900lbs. at laguna, there are so many places where you can make up time, its not funny, but you need to know where. gunter and Stu were turning 1:35-6s too right, and they were more concerned with sound than driving! once you have an open track, and no silly worries about sound, you will rip. remember, a 20 year old 928 with your kind of hp runs 1:30.8 at laguna on slicks and motons (otherwise the chassis is pretty darn close. ive race in it a couple of times. its my car on steroids!!!!)
knowing the track and doing some special things will pick up lots of time.

MK








I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M

[mkibort]

for a spint race, most any good quality brake system will work. There are stock euro M3s like david smith runs, with the single piston calipers, running 1:37 at laguna on slicks. brakes are not the issue, its how they are used at a track like laguna. Ive run those little brakes on an older 928 at laguna 6 years ago, running 2 seconds faster than Kents first race there, and never had a brake issue. (1:42 with my old 1984 2 valve version 928 with single piston steel calipers!)

Brakes that are bigger better last longer, give some better feel, but a sheer fast lap time is not really dependant on them, especially in a 30min race. want to do grand am rolex? get big brakes. SCCA club, stock stuff should work fine!

MK











I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M

Ok.. but even so.. would it be too much in order to add more stopping power to the race car ?? regardless how old it is, since its a race car and like some one told me "you can never have enough brakes" i figure the more power you add, the better your braking system should be in order to stop all that speed that is being added to it, dont you think ?

[Mannyc]

You dont suck, its your first time here!!

you go wide to the right, keep it floored all the way down the hill and trail brake, and you will out brake the evo!. Kent is parking it a bit too! trust me, if my car with no tune up, stock ecu, stock brakes, no adjustments of suspension in 5 years, not even a twist on a shock, can run 1:39, you can run 1:32s. watch the guys that show up next week at laguna . the 20th place guys will be in the 1:34s! (and there will be plenty of vipers to go around)
weight wise, im sure you are in the 3000-3100lb base car range, the evo is tipping near 2900lbs. at laguna, there are so many places where you can make up time, its not funny, but you need to know where. gunter and Stu were turning 1:35-6s too right, and they were more concerned with sound than driving! once you have an open track, and no silly worries about sound, you will rip. remember, a 20 year old 928 with your kind of hp runs 1:30.8 at laguna on slicks and motons (otherwise the chassis is pretty darn close. ive race in it a couple of times. its my car on steroids!!!!)
knowing the track and doing some special things will pick up lots of time.

MK








I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M



I have upgraded brakes, and they have always been good at Willow Springs, Button Willow, Spring Mountain and California Speedway. But at Laguna, I was getting really bad brake fade around the last 5 or 6 laps to the point where in the last couple of laps, I nearly lost all braking and would have the brakes completely floored and the car did not want to stop well (was pumping them before each turn.) It could have been a combo of some bad brake fluid and the brake air duct not being mounted correctly (both will be fixed before the next event.)

Mark, my car weighs in at over 3,400 pounds with fuel and me in the car. You're what, 2,800 pounds with you in it? Try adding 600 pounds to your car and then stop at the end of the long straight. World Challenge guys complain when they are carrying 120 pounds of weight and say their car is terrible. Trail braking is damn ugly in my car.


M

[GokuSSJ4]

theres no way to get your car to brake the way the evo does ? or add ABS to help to the equation ?
how about weight reduction, anything else that can be done to loose some lbs ...

[Mannyc]

theres no way to get your car to brake the way the evo does ? or add ABS to help to the equation ?
how about weight reduction, anything else that can be done to loose some lbs ...


Of course there is. It's called $$$.

[C-Spec]

i love the 4th video. the viper getting push and trying to be in front of evo and lost control like 3 times. good shit.

[GokuSSJ4]

theres no way to get your car to brake the way the evo does ? or add ABS to help to the equation ?
how about weight reduction, anything else that can be done to loose some lbs ...


Of course there is. It's called $$$.

dont you think it would be a good investment for your beast ?

[mkibort]

I run laguna at my current weight of near 3000lbs with driver and gas to 3400lbs when running with POC. sure, im running a lot slower , but i have much smaller brakes even than a stock viper. Â*its all about putting the tires to use and not riding the brakes. Â* You should be fine with some small adjustments.

By the way, just watche the last video clip #4 again. Manny, you are driving real well everywhere. a little narrow into turn 9, the entrance to the corkscrew, and of course, you are loosing .5 to 1 second to kent going into turn 2.
otherwise, pretty darn good laps! Kent too! you guys should go at it when we get some temperature at laguna. an 80-90 degree day is night and day difference in grip! I dont know about you guys, but i was only seeing 135 degree temps on my hottest edges on the tires. usually, im in the 170s

Here is a clip of Foster during a qualifying session with SpeedGT Â*at laguna in '04. Â*I dont think he knew the track too well, and certainly since then, has become much faster!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7PDlBWRDE

If cars like the vipers and Henzler in the porsche with 250lbs rewards weight and 245x40 tires up front can run 1:30.xx, you know your car can do much better. Â* Like I said, you did great for your first time there. Â* count on a couple more seconds being in the works for some different driving styles. Â* You need to go real wide to turn 2 and almost early apex the turn. this creates a lot of decel for the car, without even using the brakes. Â* when you run laguna right, you know it, and your brakes are never an issue.

could it be the pads you were running? I run pagid oranges. Â*blacks work well, but tough on rotors. Â* ive had the problems you talk about many years ago with other manufacturer brands of pads.

as i said, kent complained of the same issues with brakes in his first race, but he had the same brakes as me. Â*11.9" rotors and brembos. (this was his back up brake system, and my only system) Â*these brakes have 75 race days on them!! Â*(plus 18 years from all the different handlers of the Production WR setting porsche 928 )

MK








You dont suck, its your first time here!!

you go wide to the right, keep it floored all the way down the hill and trail brake, and you will out brake the evo!. Kent is parking it a bit too! trust me, if my car with no tune up, stock ecu, stock brakes, no adjustments of suspension in 5 years, not even a twist on a shock, can run 1:39, you can run 1:32s. watch the guys that show up next week at laguna . the 20th place guys will be in the 1:34s! (and there will be plenty of vipers to go around)
weight wise, im sure you are in the 3000-3100lb base car range, the evo is tipping near 2900lbs. at laguna, there are so many places where you can make up time, its not funny, but you need to know where. gunter and Stu were turning 1:35-6s too right, and they were more concerned with sound than driving! once you have an open track, and no silly worries about sound, you will rip. remember, a 20 year old 928 with your kind of hp runs 1:30.8 at laguna on slicks and motons (otherwise the chassis is pretty darn close. ive race in it a couple of times. its my car on steroids!!!!)
knowing the track and doing some special things will pick up lots of time.

MK








I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M



I have upgraded brakes, and they have always been good at Willow Springs, Button Willow, Spring Mountain and California Speedway. But at Laguna, I was getting really bad brake fade around the last 5 or 6 laps to the point where in the last couple of laps, I nearly lost all braking and would have the brakes completely floored and the car did not want to stop well (was pumping them before each turn.) It could have been a combo of some bad brake fluid and the brake air duct not being mounted correctly (both will be fixed before the next event.)

Mark, my car weighs in at over 3,400 pounds with fuel and me in the car. You're what, 2,800 pounds with you in it? Try adding 600 pounds to your car and then stop at the end of the long straight. World Challenge guys complain when they are carrying 120 pounds of weight and say their car is terrible. Trail braking is damn ugly in my car.


M

[mkibort]

Unless its racing abs, its only a safety net. shouldnt make a bit of difference in time. however, its nice to have when you are learning a new track, as you have a better chance of never flat spotting a tire for a mistake.

porsche ABS on the cup cars is so good , you can press as hard as you can for those hard stops. most all other cars require some finess.
MK



theres no way to get your car to brake the way the evo does ? or add ABS to help to the equation ?
how about weight reduction, anything else that can be done to loose some lbs ...

[Mannyc]

I'm sure you know this, but a Viper GTS and a World Challenge Viper Comp Coupe are not the same car.Â* One is a street car thats been modded for track use and the other is a full factory built race car. They have almost as much in common as a Vette does to my car.Â* Different engine, tranny, suspension, frame, brakes, body, etc.Â* Â*I don't think there's much that can be shared between the two cars.Â* From what Gunter has told me, driving a Viper Comp Coupe is waaaaaay easier to drive fast than our Viper GTS's.Â* You'll have to ask him though, as I have never driven one.Â* Kent's Viper GTS-R's (ex LeMans cars) have even less in common with the Viper GTS other than maybe the 'Viper' logo on the front.

Now if you mean that my car can do much better than I did last time, then I agree!Â* No lifting for sound = faster.Â* Â*Better braking = faster.Â* Using whole track = faster.Â* Getting suspension set up perfect = faster.Â* Using new tires = faster???Â* Having Mueller & Co. talk smack on here = Faster.Â* Having Gunter on my ass or in front of me = faster :-)Â*







If cars like the vipers and Henzler in the porsche with 250lbs rewards weight and 245x40 tires up front can run 1:30.xx, you know your car can do much better.Â* Â*Like I said, you did great for your first time there.Â* Â*count on a couple more seconds being in the works for some different driving styles.Â* Â*You need to go real wide to turn 2 and almost early apex the turn. this creates a lot of decel for the car, without even using the brakes.Â* Â*when you run laguna right, you know it, and your brakes are never an issue. MK








You dont suck, its your first time here!!

you go wide to the right, keep it floored all the way down the hill and trail brake, and you will out brake the evo!. Kent is parking it a bit too! trust me, if my car with no tune up, stock ecu, stock brakes, no adjustments of suspension in 5 years, not even a twist on a shock, can run 1:39, you can run 1:32s. watch the guys that show up next week at laguna . the 20th place guys will be in the 1:34s! (and there will be plenty of vipers to go around)
weight wise, im sure you are in the 3000-3100lb base car range, the evo is tipping near 2900lbs. at laguna, there are so many places where you can make up time, its not funny, but you need to know where. gunter and Stu were turning 1:35-6s too right, and they were more concerned with sound than driving! once you have an open track, and no silly worries about sound, you will rip. remember, a 20 year old 928 with your kind of hp runs 1:30.8 at laguna on slicks and motons (otherwise the chassis is pretty darn close. ive race in it a couple of times. its my car on steroids!!!!)
knowing the track and doing some special things will pick up lots of time.

MK








I notice especially on this turn the huge gap is being built under the braking zone... isnt there a way to improve the Vipers braking power ? ? or is the Evo braking system that far superior from it


First, I suck in turn 2. I admit it. I am giving up way to much and need more practice to figure out the fastest way through there.

I believe my Viper is quite a bit heavier than the Evo and I lack ABS, so there's not much I can do in terms of fending off the Evo under braking anyway. Plus with ABS you can brake into the turns insanely better than without. Each car has its stengths. The 2001+ Vipers come with ABS. Mine is a 1996, or as Kibort would say, a 10 year old race car with used tires, never washed race car.

-M



I have upgraded brakes, and they have always been good at Willow Springs, Button Willow, Spring Mountain and California Speedway. But at Laguna, I was getting really bad brake fade around the last 5 or 6 laps to the point where in the last couple of laps, I nearly lost all braking and would have the brakes completely floored and the car did not want to stop well (was pumping them before each turn.) It could have been a combo of some bad brake fluid and the brake air duct not being mounted correctly (both will be fixed before the next event.)

Mark, my car weighs in at over 3,400 pounds with fuel and me in the car. You're what, 2,800 pounds with you in it? Try adding 600 pounds to your car and then stop at the end of the long straight. World Challenge guys complain when they are carrying 120 pounds of weight and say their car is terrible. Trail braking is damn ugly in my car.


M

[Mannyc]

Using the bridge on the main straight as a beacon, he hits the bridge in lap 1 at 5:37:26 and finishes in the same place at 5:39:08, for a laptime of 1:42.Â* Â* Next lap he hits the bridge at 5:40:49 making that lap a 1:41.Â* Is he in a comp coupe?Â* These times seem slow for World Challenge qualifying, even forÂ* first time at the track, don't they?Â* If they were running Toyos back in 2004 World Challenges, then I was running the same tires, only fatter, and very much more usedÂ* ^-^

-M

PS: How do you know this is Foster, and how do you find these videos? Got any more?



Here is a clip of Foster during a qualifying session with SpeedGTÂ* at laguna in '04.Â* I dont think he knew the track too well, and certainly since then, has become much faster!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7PDlBWRDE

[mkibort]

I was running 1:41s,Â* and 1:40s when i had a clean lap like on theÂ* last lap of that session, and sorry, it wasnt qualifying it was the second practice on the first day for some of these guys .Â* (qualifying time for me, as i missed qual due to skipped teeth on timing belt)Â* Yes it was a Comp coup and yes it was foster (or Tonnelli) . I know, because it was me driving my 928 with the video. (mopping up the rear fo the field being down about 200hp to the other guys! actually, in 2004, there really wasnt a "rear"of the field like 2002-3 where there was a grand am type M3, type R mustangs, non speedGT upgraded porsche cup cars, guys that were green to the track, etc.Â* It was a blast.Â* Â*However, keep in mind that paul mumford, the first to tackle laguna in a compe coupe, ran 1:37s for most of the race andÂ* a 1:34.xx as a best lap.Â* Â*

By the way foster (or now that i think of it, Tonelli) was running 1:36-7s.Â* I think the video shows Tonnelli in the red comp coupe anyway. (the ex- speedvision supra guy) i dont know how you figured out 1:41, but 5:37.26 minus 5:39.02 is near 1:36 for Tonnelli.Â* I think maybe you were thinking the incar was from Foster??? actually, like i said, its my car.Â* Â*also, as far as your brakes go, you can push them harder, by not using them as much!Â* as you said, you will get faster due to a bunch of different factors.Â* again, 1:34 on the new track or 1:36 on the old track is very fast for your first time.Â* Sure, a comp coupe is a different car. (but if you talk to Joe B, you get the opposite version of the case)Â* Â*anyway, there are a lot of similarities with the GTS vipers,Â* and of course, the ALMS vipers are a big difference in hp and chassis.Â* Â*

My buddy in the white 928 was running 1:38s for most of the race with 1:35 BEST.Â* He just ran 1:30s on slicks a few weeks ago on the new laguna track surface.Â* I think the track is about 2-3 seconds faster to the cars with the big power.Â* Â* Â*In that video clip, i think foster was near the rear of the field and ran 1:39-40s in the race.

did you see Henzler in the black and gold porsche zip by me after following me through turn 11. he pulled out and grabbed 3 gears going by me as i was standing still, with no run out of turn 11.Â* those cup cars run near 420rwhp (or better) close ratio gears (add 8% more hp applied to the wheels) and are 2800lbs with driver. however, he was carrrying near 200lbs of rewards weight.Â* pretty scarry fast!Â* He ran a 1:30.1 the next day in qual.

MK
Â*

i gotÂ* a slew of these videos. what do you want to see.

mk



Using the bridge on the main straight as a beacon, he hits the bridge in lap 1 at 5:37:26 and finishes in the same place at 5:39:08, for a laptime of 1:42.Â* Â* Next lap he hits the bridge at 5:40:49 making that lap a 1:41.Â* Is he in a comp coupe?Â* These times seem slow for World Challenge qualifying, even forÂ* first time at the track, don't they?Â* If they were running Toyos back in 2004 World Challenges, then I was running the same tires, only fatter, and very much more usedÂ* ^-^

-M

PS: How do you know this is Foster, and how do you find these videos? Got any more?



Here is a clip of Foster during a qualifying session with SpeedGTÂ* at laguna in '04.Â* I dont think he knew the track too well, and certainly since then, has become much faster!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7PDlBWRDE

[Richard EVO]

Kibort - if I have to read one more time you whining about driving a 20 year old Porsche with a suspension from a Model T and powered by a team of mice riding tiny little bicycles, I'm gonna puke.

[mkibort]

puke away!!!!! Hey, its grass roots racing at its best. any millionair can cut a check and be a race car driver these days. go find a GT3RS and go run in SP in SCCA . out of the box you (and your team of 10 and spare parts with $100k/5 race engine budget)would dominate.

If we all were limited to what grand am cup GS allowed on the track, with some exceptions, we all would be better off. Kent runs 4 seconds faster and shells out more money at the awards banquet than i spend on all my racing all season long. Ive done the entire season and i think my entire years' cost has been one set of brake rotors and pads, gas and entry fees with an occasional hotel stay. (and some $40 mount and balance costs for those free garbage can tires i use)

Its all about the fun and the smack talking!!

MK



Kibort - if I have to read one more time you whining about driving a 20 year old Porsche with a suspension from a Model T and powered by a team of mice riding tiny little bicycles, I'm gonna puke.

[hagakure]

As much as you whine it's hard not to take it as sour grapes. If you or I had the resources that Kent had, we would use them. I know I would. I would LOVE to have Someone of John's work ethic, kknowledge and ability lead me by the hand through my dream, which Kent is doing, and more power to him for it, it's a blessing. You are a very good driver MK, and you seem to get a lot of joy out of what you do, with the meagre resources available to you..we all do. So, I for one like your vids, appreciate your view of the racing, but the old tired lament is just that, an old tired lament. My 2 cents.

[mkibort]

Thanks, its more for the humor than sour grapes. really. I guess part of the flavor is lost on the internet. Im sure guys that have met me know my story. I love the sport more than anyone. and your right, if i had the resources, I would run ALMS GT2 or Grand Am GS.
I'd go out tomorrow and buy the fastest car I could that fit a series.

I think what John is doing with Kent is fantastic. Good for the evo group as its putting the car on the road racing map, but they need to run that car in world Challenge, or run the BMW they have now in Grand Am cup and let me help them drive it! They will be surprised how hard it is to run a BMW to 1:40ish at Laguna with a 125less hp than they are running with now. It will be good for Kent, good for John and good for me!! thats how successfull teams are made. Kent has the resourses and love of the sport. John has the drive and commitment and work ethic and I, well, you know my story!

I guess from my perspective, i got to be out there regularly, trying to getting better each and every time i hit the track. i put all the limited resources and tools to work and in the end, i the net out come is certainly a good bang for buck.

But, almost as good as the racing, is the smack talking we all share with each other!!


MK



As much as you whine it's hard not to take it as sour grapes. If you or I had the resources that Kent had, we would use them. I know I would. I would LOVE to have Someone of John's work ethic, kknowledge and ability lead me by the hand through my dream, which Kent is doing, and more power to him for it, it's a blessing. You are a very good driver MK, and you seem to get a lot of joy out of what you do, with the meagre resources available to you..we all do. So, I for one like your vids, appreciate your view of the racing, but the old tired lament is just that, an old tired lament. My 2 cents.

[GunterS]

I'm sure you know this, but a Viper GTS and a World Challenge Viper Comp Coupe are not the same car.Â* One is a street car thats been modded for track use and the other is a full factory built race car. They have almost as much in common as a Vette does to my car.Â* Different engine, tranny, suspension, frame, brakes, body, etc.Â* Â*I don't think there's much that can be shared between the two cars.Â* From what Gunter has told me, driving a Viper Comp Coupe is waaaaaay easier to drive fast than our Viper GTS's.Â* You'll have to ask him though, as I have never driven one.Â* Kent's Viper GTS-R's (ex LeMans cars) have even less in common with the Viper GTS other than maybe the 'Viper' logo on the front.

i can tell you that i drove my freinds (Dannon smith) comp coupe at miller motorsports and then a couple of days later at willow springs. What i told Manny was that when i was in that comp coupe i felt like i was in a radical. not sure if many of you have driven a radical but it is awesome. One day i want one of those toys. The comp coupe is a Dodge and its called a Viper. other than that is completly different than a GTS Viper. I can squeeze a 1.25+ in my converted GTS car that you all know (blue and white GTS #896) and i just hit my one year anniversary for racing that car in July. That means i have countless hours of track time and experience in hitting my limits at willow springs with this car.
I drove this comp coupe knowing that if i put a sctratch on it (it had about 4 hours of track time on it TOTAL-BRAND NEW CAR) i would have to pay for it. So i was as conservative as possible. I put down a 1.25.0 in that car on my 11th lap of a race. I had traffic for a couple of laps and then was free to take off and it was the easiest 1.25 i have ever driven. The car is so tight and just PERFECT. it was really hard to give the car back. it is such a different car. This is also not a world challenge spec car. the WC cars have 40HP more, different brakes,aero,cooling etc. I have heard of 1.19 at willow springs with a WC car.
The GTS-R. another completley different animal. It has the look of a true GTS car but is not. i don't know much about the GTS-R except for the same guy who has put down a 1.19 in WC spec comp coupe has put down a 1.15 (at willow springs) in a GTS-R. So those GTS-R Vipers should be able to kick ass on a Full blown WC compe coupe. i can't wait to just actually see one soon. :)

[GunterS]

Sure, a comp coupe is a different car. (but if you talk to Joe B, you get the opposite version of the case) anyway, there are a lot of similarities with the GTS vipers, and of course, the ALMS vipers are a big difference in hp and chassis.

Are you saying you think there are a lot of similarities between GTS and comp coupe? If so i would love to hear about them.
I am equally curious as to what Joe B has said about the differences between a Converted GTS car and a Compe coupe. I don't think i know him but i think he went from a GTS to a Comp coupe so it would be nice hear what others thought about it.

[mkibort]

Hey, didnt mean to start a stir with that one. Joe B was going to run in ITE and was shot down by the rules for not being a "Production Vehicle" which technically it isnt. (nor is the porsche GT3 cup car) He and scotty white chimmed in about the similarities vs the stock viper.Â* first of all, the GTS is not the new viper either, but im sure it still has the semil tube frame that the website shows. I know the comp coupe vs the way WC cars come , are different.Â* Â* 40 more hp? sounds about right, since we all estimate the heavy cars are putting down near 475 to 500rwhp.Â* Â*I think scotty was talking about being able to build a viper SRT to the performance level of the comp coupe, but it would take some effort.Â*

Im sure the differnence of the comp coupe must be like the differnce of the new porsche 997 and a cup car, even though they both share the same type of gross geometries. and then, i guess to your point, if we are talking GTS vs comp coupe, something more like comparing the porsche cup car with the older 996???

bottom line, you guys have some power. it showed in your lap times and the fact that it was your first time there.Â* Â*kudos there!Â* regardless of the new track mods, you guys ran near as fast as Paul Mumford in one of the first comp coupes, and he was a great driver and knew the track well.Â* Â*It seems everyone is getting faster!Â* Â* like i mentioned, the track is faster now, but i wonder by how much.Â* the last few years, the viper comp coupes have been near 1:32-33 in the race.Â* i bet they are running 1:29 next week!
Â* *(you heard it here first folks.Â* 2-3 seconds faster for the fast guys) I bet guys like Kieth vitteto and Kevin chambers that are 10-15th place guys, run in the 1:32s (last year 1:34/5s)

by the way , the GTS-R Vipers ran near 1:22-4 at laguna in GTS class (now GT1 ALMS). they are monsters. be great to see one out at laguna in a club event. shame to hear them sitting in some garage gathering dust! Kent should take a stab at Stefonowitz in one!

MK





Sure, a comp coupe is a different car. (but if you talk to Joe B, you get the opposite version of the case) anyway, there are a lot of similarities with the GTS vipers, and of course, the ALMS vipers are a big difference in hp and chassis.

Are you saying you think there are a lot of similarities between GTS and comp coupe? If so i would love to hear about them.
I am equally curious as to what Joe B has said about the differences between a Converted GTS car and a Compe coupe. I don't think i know him but i think he went from a GTS to a Comp coupe so it would be nice hear what others thought about it.

[Mannyc]

Mark, post em all, damn you. To start, post some of Button Willow and Willow Springs of you battling it out.

M





IÂ*

i gotÂ* a slew of these videos. what do you want to see.

mk



Using the bridge on the main straight as a beacon, he hits the bridge in lap 1 at 5:37:26 and finishes in the same place at 5:39:08, for a laptime of 1:42.Â* Â* Next lap he hits the bridge at 5:40:49 making that lap a 1:41.Â* Is he in a comp coupe?Â* These times seem slow for World Challenge qualifying, even forÂ* first time at the track, don't they?Â* If they were running Toyos back in 2004 World Challenges, then I was running the same tires, only fatter, and very much more usedÂ* ^-^

-M

PS: How do you know this is Foster, and how do you find these videos? Got any more?



Here is a clip of Foster during a qualifying session with SpeedGTÂ* at laguna in '04.Â* I dont think he knew the track too well, and certainly since then, has become much faster!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7PDlBWRDE

[GunterS]

Hey, didn't mean to start a stir with that one. Joe B was going to run in ITE and was shot down by the rules for not being a "Production Vehicle" which technically it isnt. (nor is the porsche GT3 cup car) He and scotty white chimmed in about the similarities vs the stock viper. Â*quote]



I know you aren't trying to stir anything M. i am just curious as to what anyone can think is the same between the comp coupe and the GTS (96-02) Viper. i am fairly familiar with both and i do not think they have many pertinent parts that are similar. i started to write about some pieces which are the same but i had to delete because i can't think of any. i am not sure what ammunition Scotty used to try and convince any knowledgeable person that those too cars are similar.
Manny and i actually had a very simple time explaining to the officials at an SCCA race at buttonwillow, that the cars are completely different and should not be classed together.

[GunterS]

first of all, the GTS is not the new viper either, but im sure it still has the semil tube frame that the website shows. .




I don't know of any semi tube frame parts on my GTS. i have a boxed frame from front to back. Of course i know have a full roll cage but other than that i have no known tubes connected to my frame. i don't know which website pics you are speaking of.

[GunterS]

. I think scotty was talking about being able to build a viper SRT to the performance level of the comp coupe, but it would take some effort.






i also looked into the same idea and was told that it is impossible to turn a SRT 10 into a comp coupe. The frame is completely different. suspension pick up points are completely different. i believe the wheelbase is even different. It may look the same but it is COMPLETELY different.

[mkibort]

Thats interesting, as the SRT vs comp coupe is what ithe discussion was really about.
I think when they talk about tube frame, that includes box frame components. (round or square, tubed frame still means the style of chassis vs unibody chassis) there is part of the rules that says "non tubed frame" i wonder what the percentage is for this, as the new viper sure looks like most of the chassis is tubed besides the passenger container!

anyway, when Scotty and Joe were talking about his, i went to the website for vipers and found a bunch of information regarding the similarities. i have NO idea about the GTS, other than the viper name is spelled the same! (ha ha)

MK





. I think scotty was talking about being able to build a viper SRT to the performance level of the comp coupe, but it would take some effort.






i also looked into the same idea and was told that it is impossible to turn a SRT 10 into a comp coupe. The frame is completely different. suspension pick up points are completely different. i believe the wheelbase is even different. It may look the same but it is COMPLETELY different.

[mkibort]

Thats interesting, as the SRT vs comp coupe is what ithe discussion was really about.
I think when they talk about tube frame, that includes box frame components. (round or square, tubed frame still means the style of chassis vs unibody chassis) there is part of the rules that says "non tubed frame" i wonder what the percentage is for this, as the new viper sure looks like most of the chassis is tubed besides the passenger container!

anyway, when Scotty and Joe were talking about his, i went to the website for vipers and found a bunch of information regarding the similarities. i have NO idea about the GTS, other than the viper name is spelled the same! (ha ha)

MK

PS Manny, if you want to see more of these one lap clips, go to google.video.com and type in "porsche racing" I think there are about 5 videos i posted a year ago.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4211155778690778093&q=porsche+racing&hl=en





. I think scotty was talking about being able to build a viper SRT to the performance level of the comp coupe, but it would take some effort.






i also looked into the same idea and was told that it is impossible to turn a SRT 10 into a comp coupe. The frame is completely different. suspension pick up points are completely different. i believe the wheelbase is even different. It may look the same but it is COMPLETELY different.

[mkibort]

did you see the speed GT times at laguna (basically, ITE!)

Kent would be behind as far as i am behind him (ie 4+ seconds)

Notice that Igor in the STI Subaru, who has less recent track time to Kent, ran a 1:33xx in the very first practice! and he is in almost, last place, (near 30th place!!!!) while Stu in the beautiful silver and red viper, who was getting poped for sound in our races, ran a 1:37 to pick up the last spot. not much faster than when he was at laguna with us, and now he doesnt have to lift for noise!Â* :)

[Mannyc]

Kibort, where do you see Stu? I only see the the top 30 cars listed at the Speed GT real tie tracking site, with Joel Feinberg in 30th place with a 1:36.1.

[mkibort]

go to the live timing area.Â* click HTML, it brings up the actual times and last lap time
stu was 2nd to last, and behind the Subaru 4x4 . his time was 1:37.5. hey, you smoked on Al Becerra's time of 1:38, but he could have been having 1st practice issues. I think ran 1:35s on the old track, so 1:33s for him too i would guess by qual time!

http://leaderboard.vfx.com/SCCA/GT/LiveTiming_HTML.asp


mk



Kibort, where do you see Stu? I only see the the top 30 cars listed at the Speed GT real tie tracking site, with Joel Feinberg in 30th place with a 1:36.1.