Brake Ducting

[Barfly]

A weak link right now is my braking system. I can run fine for maybe 20min with a hint of fade around 10-15 min or so, but anything beyond then I overheat my system. I believe this is just from improved threshold braking as a set of front pads used to last about 4 events. Now I am down to the plate after 2.

I still have my brake shield on and have no ducting at the moment. I am running pf 2 pc rotors with pf 97 pads.

What are you guys doing for brakeducting/cooling?

[leaveit2bevo]

forge makes this kit for 2 bills http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=170720

[Skiracer]

www.robispec.com sells a kit.

[Barfly]

The Forge kit looks nice and has been getting good reviews. I may go with that.

Thanks guys. O0

[speedform]

I removed my dust shield and run the Ralliart accessory air guides. So far so good.
I've also adjusted my braking technique a little by applying more preasure for a shorter period of time. I've found that applying more progressive pressure over a longer distance tends to overheat the system quicker.

[Barfly]

I've also adjusted my braking technique a little by applying more preasure for a shorter period of time. I've found that applying more progressive pressure over a longer distance tends to overheat the system quicker.


Good point. I have tried to be progressive (what I thought was being smooth), but it seems like that takes a greater amount of time to reach my target entry corner speed. I also need to take my panties off and rely on the motons a little more.

[speedform]

Wow! And I thought I was the only one sporting ladies undergarments! :grin:

I hear what your saying about the braking issue. It flies in the face of everything I've been taught but the Evo just seems to respond better if you drive it like you stole it.

[Barfly]

I've instead chosen to go with Mueller's 3" brake ducting. Can't wait. O0

[trinydex]

you'll eventually need to get the stoptechs or the aps

[Miss Evo8]

Those PF97 pads work really well...but they create A LOT of heat and melt everything around it. I had the same set up as you..John suggested I switch pads

[500whp]

try out the Endless CC-Rs i send Robi a set and he likes them, have not failed on him while hes on the track =)

yes forge ducts are pretty good, comes w/ hoses =)

[Barfly]

you'll eventually need to get the stoptechs or the aps


I need to start saving up. ;)



Those PF97 pads work really well...but they create A LOT of heat and melt everything around it. I had the same set up as you..John suggested I switch pads


My calipers are black, not brown, from running the PF97s. They are nearly always smoking even after a brisk cooldown lap (not touching the brakes). I'm going with the Ferodo 3000/2500 combo for the next few events. I've heard mixed reviews regarding the Ferodo combination, but I've already ordered them. Eventually I will switch over to the Hawk DTC70/60 combo.



try out the Endless CC-Rs i send Robi a set and he likes them, have not failed on him while hes on the track =)

yes forge ducts are pretty good, comes w/ hoses =)


Thanks for the info. I've not heard whether the Forge unit will work with a BBK. I'm going to go with John's custom ducting setup which is 3". Hopefully I will also be able to use it with a Stoptech BBK.

[Richard EVO]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .

[Barfly]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .


That's an understatement. :grin:

[evobeaner]

do you think it might be the added weight of the 18" wheels and tires compared to 17's?

[trinydex]

why hawk dtc 70/60? is that what percy runs?

[Barfly]

do you think it might be the added weight of the 18" wheels and tires compared to 17's?


Doubt it. It's a neglibible difference in weight when you consider the car weighs 3300lbs. I think it's just that I'm driving harder.

[Barfly]

why hawk dtc 70/60? is that what percy runs?


It's what Kent runs.

[nj1266]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .

That's why I race a Sentra and daily drive the Evo. Want an engine for that Sentra? How about $350. A tranny? How about $400. Rotors? How about $10. Calipers? $35. Hawk Blue pads? How about $107. Yeah, I know it is a Sentra.... :-P

[Richard EVO]

Pads cost more than rotors and calipers put together?

[hagakure]

the Hawk pad combo IS outstanding....
I've been running it as well with no problems, no fade, no concerns.







why hawk dtc 70/60? is that what percy runs?


It's what Kent runs.

[speedform]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .


The Stoptechs are nice but other than their cast 'bridge' insert, their off the shelf system isn't worlds better than the stock Brembo setup. I believe Muellers Stoptech's run a custom bore and piston design, something us weekend warriors might not be able to purchase. But I could be wrong. Stoptech does have great products and product support (MUCH better then Brembo).
If it were my duckets, I'd be throwin' down for a set of Stasis Engineering Alcon forged calipers. pretty...

[speedform]

the Hawk pad combo IS outstanding....
I've been running it as well with no problems, no fade, no concerns.

Yeah, the Hawks rock!(and throw pretty sparks when cold) Just don't drive on the street with them and expect your rotors to last very long.







why hawk dtc 70/60? is that what percy runs?


It's what Kent runs.

[Barfly]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .


The Stoptechs are nice but other than their cast 'bridge' insert, their off the shelf system isn't worlds better than the stock Brembo setup. I believe Muellers Stoptech's run a custom bore and piston design, something us weekend warriors might not be able to purchase. But I could be wrong. Stoptech does have great products and product support (MUCH better then Brembo).
If it were my duckets, I'd be throwin' down for a set of Stasis Engineering Alcon forged calipers. pretty...


How is the pricing for the Alcon calipers? Comparable to the Stoptechs? Is there much of a performance difference between the two?

[earlyapex]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .


The Stoptechs are nice but other than their cast 'bridge' insert, their off the shelf system isn't worlds better than the stock Brembo setup. I believe Muellers Stoptech's run a custom bore and piston design, something us weekend warriors might not be able to purchase. But I could be wrong. Stoptech does have great products and product support (MUCH better then Brembo).
If it were my duckets, I'd be throwin' down for a set of Stasis Engineering Alcon forged calipers. pretty...


How is the pricing for the Alcon calipers? Comparable to the Stoptechs? Is there much of a performance difference between the two?


The Alcons are bank ($3500), you have to run 18" wheels and you have to take the calipers off to change the pads. (they slide out the bottom instead of top).

Pending all that, they rock. One of the track whores up here uses a set and he can out brake me by a bit.

[Barfly]

Are you running stock calipers, Percy?

[speedform]

I'm just about ready to move up to a StopTech system, but I wanted to buy the safety equipment (roll cage, 6-point harness and fire extinguisher) first. This is getting really expensive . . .




The Stoptechs are nice but other than their cast 'bridge' insert, their off the shelf system isn't worlds better than the stock Brembo setup. I believe Muellers Stoptech's run a custom bore and piston design, something us weekend warriors might not be able to purchase. But I could be wrong. Stoptech does have great products and product support (MUCH better then Brembo).
If it were my duckets, I'd be throwin' down for a set of Stasis Engineering Alcon forged calipers. pretty...


How is the pricing for the Alcon calipers? Comparable to the Stoptechs? Is there much of a performance difference between the two?


The Alcons are bank ($3500), you have to run 18" wheels and you have to take the calipers off to change the pads. (they slide out the bottom instead of top).

Pending all that, they rock. One of the track whores up here uses a set and he can out brake me by a bit.


They actually sell a 14" and 14.5" kit (the 14.5" kit is actually cheaper!). Not sure if the 14" kit will clear a 17" wheel though. Expensive, yes. But that's what tax returns are for!

http://www.stasisengineering.com/Thumbnail_Preview.aspx?ID=8&YR=2005&MK=Mitsubishi&MD=EVO&EN=129

[speedform]

Found these as well. 6 piston kit from AP Racing. Their a little cheaper then the Alcons but I don't think there forged.

http://www.brake-pros.com/brakepros_detail.asp?subcat=0&id=13555&page=1

[Barfly]

Thanks for the info guys. It's good to know there are alternative options. Have any of you guys had any experience with other BBKs? I have heard a little about the Alcons, RacingBrake, AP, and Stoptech. I really don't care what system I get as long as I stop NOW. Although the cheaper I can accomplish this goal, the better. :-P

[trinydex]

get the techs... most for your money. but alcons are best overall.

[Barfly]

RacingBrake is likely the cheapest. So many options. :-\ :)

[leaveit2bevo]

Mueller knows what will stop the best ask him

[GokuSSJ4]

The Alcons are bank ($3500), you have to run 18" wheels and you have to take the calipers off to change the pads. (they slide out the bottom instead of top).

Pending all that, they rock. One of the track whores up here uses a set and he can out brake me by a bit.


i believe they offer a kit for 2800.00 and you can still run 17 inch wheels.. Robi is able to get them, not sure who else you can order them from (since the only place i have seen the alcon front brakes are on his personal car)

[Barfly]

Mueller knows what will stop the best ask him


He probably has the most experience with the Stoptech system. Hard to argue with RRC's experience and results. We'll see. I will have the cage installed in November and ducting/BBK will likely be in December. I have some time.

[Barfly]

The Alcons are bank ($3500), you have to run 18" wheels and you have to take the calipers off to change the pads. (they slide out the bottom instead of top).

Pending all that, they rock. One of the track whores up here uses a set and he can out brake me by a bit.


i believe they offer a kit for 2800.00 and you can still run 17 inch wheels.. Robi is able to get them, not sure who else you can order them from (since the only place i have seen the alcon front brakes are on his personal car)


I'm running 18" wheels just for the intended purpose of upgrading to a bigger brake system. I have so far been burning about $100 per RA-1 without much added benefit. Hopefully, the BBK will make it worth it.

[earlyapex]

I would just get really good pads, SS lines, good rotors and good fluid.

I was about to throw the towel in and get another set of Stoptechs but I finally got a combo that works well for me with the stock brembos.

Tightening the nut behind the wheel works wonders too. Concentrating and working on brake technique also worked wonders for me.

[Barfly]

I would just get really good pads, SS lines, good rotors and good fluid.
Tightening the nut behind the wheel works wonders too. Concentrating and working on brake technique also worked wonders for me.


I already have the pads, lines, rotors, and fluid.

I really need ducting more than I need the BBK. I am experiencing considerable brake fade that may be a combination of setup and technique. I have to take it easy for the last 5-10 minutes of a 30 minute session, and sometimes the last 5 minutes of a 20 minute session if I am running hard. If there is light to moderate traffic, I don't experience much fade.

I agree, in no way, have I maximized my current setup and could easily get by with just ducting (and a cage ;)). Though my ultimate plan is to fully prep the car with a stroker/turbo upgrade as well and that is when I will really need the BBK.

Basically, I am a wannabe Kent :D

[speedform]

Barfly, are you prepping the car to run in any particular series or are you sticking with TT?

If your trying to be cost conscious, maybe picking up a Brembo rebuild kit might help improve the performance from your stock system. It's been ridden pretty hard (I saw them at BW) and some TLC might be all they need.
As a side note, Dave Brown who drives the Goodsport WORKS USTCC Evo still runs the stock calipers, with great results! cheers,

[Barfly]

Barfly, are you prepping the car to run in any particular series or are you sticking with TT?


I'm not sure. That's what is killing me at the moment. I know that regardless, I need a cage for the EVO. I will run it in at least TT and maybe SCCA, but I will likely also get something like a 944 to race in once I move back to the midwest (Ohio). I will run that for a year or two and try to learn how to maximize what I have in a close to spec series, save on costs, and hopefully become a better driver. I guess a goal down the line may be to get into GrandAm, or something similar. Regardless, this is a part-time aspiration. I still have my full-time gig and I will need it to pay for all this shit. :P

I'm not in a rush to get a BBK. I just need ducting and more safety equipment, and a BBK if I decide to add power later. I will do both if I plan on running in SCCA.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

[Richard EVO]

I need some advice on better brakes too. I run the stock Brembo calipers, Centrics slotted front rotors stock rear rotors, and Performance Friction or Project mU pads. Don't ask me which model pads, it's whatever RRC/RRE sold me. I am at the point where I get some brake fade in the hard braking zones on th faster tracks. I'm open to suggestions.

[Barfly]

I need some advice on better brakes too. I run the stock Brembo calipers, Centrics slotted front rotors stock rear rotors, and Performance Friction or Project mU pads. Don't ask me which model pads, it's whatever RRC/RRE sold me. I am at the point where I get some brake fade in the hard braking zones on th faster tracks. I'm open to suggestions.


Try the Hawk DTC 70/60 combo with ducting. I have gotten a lot of good input regarding that setup and it should work fine for you. I will be running Ferodo DS 3000/2500 for the next few events, but after I will switch to the Hawk combo.

[Richard EVO]

Thanks. I'm gonna need front rotors soon too. What should I get to run with the Hawks?

[earlyapex]

Try a 2-piece rotor Richard. I've been using the PF 2-piece.

The Centrics don't have the best looking airflow pillars.

[Richard EVO]

Am I still ok running the stock rear rotors with the Hawk pads?

[Miss Evo8]

any suggestions on ducting? besides the Home Depot do it yourself? Does anyone run ducting?

[Barfly]

Am I still ok running the stock rear rotors with the Hawk pads?


Yeah, you are fine. I run the 2pc front PF rotors with the stock rear rotors. Given the front weight distribution and brake bias, your rears won't matter much. I have run with rear PF 97 pads with stock rotors for more than 6 events. No problems, and I haven't had to change the pads or rotors yet (I still have about 50% pad left).

[Barfly]

any suggestions on ducting? besides the Home Depot do it yourself? Does anyone run ducting?


Talk to John...he can create custom brake ducting for you for a reasonable price. O0

[earlyapex]

yea the rears do nothing, I still had hatch marks on my new rear centric rotors after one full day track event.

[Muellerized...]

If you make any sort of real power the stock brakes are totally inadequate. Anyone who says the stock brakes are enough is _not_ running in excess of 500hp every lap.

As far as brands, I won the 2005 SCC USCC braking event in Tommy Passalaqua's Evo with the alcons...

We choose to run the big Stoptechs on our car, it took a while to develop our current package, and it is working at the laptimes we currently run.

[earlyapex]

If you make any sort of real power the stock brakes are totally inadequate. Anyone who says the stock brakes are enough is _not_ running in excess of 500hp every lap.


Yes, I don't think anyone is running 500hp in this thread John. C'mon now. Step away from the mirror. Give Socal some information, not self masturbation.