past weekend at buttonwillow chat

[Barfly]

Good seeing everybody out at BW this past weekend. Whenever I wasn't in the car I was in the classroom at the Driving Concepts competition licensing school so unfortunately I didn't get to meet any of you.


I caught a little bit of you on the track. I was riding in VJ Mirzayan's GT3. He apparently wanted to target you during the Sunday noon session. ;)

[vtluu]

Heheh, I went by him a half-lap after coming back on track following a brain-fade-induced off in Sunset. :oops: He chased me through a few turns but I wasn't feeling 100% so I let him by and pitted. I usually drive a bit better than that. ;)

[Barfly]

Yeah, I could tell you cooled off on I-5.

VJ is a sharp driver and it was fun riding in a GT3 with the tail hanging out. He would let up for a few corners, then turn it up, back and forth. Good times.

Do you have your comp license now?

[vtluu]

VJ is not just a sharp driver, he's Grand Am Cup rookie of the year... and driving a GT3. I knew I really didn't stand a chance and he was just toying with me. :lol:

[Barfly]

VJ is not just a sharp driver, he's Grand Am Cup rookie of the year... and driving a GT3. I knew I really didn't stand a chance and he was just toying with me. :lol:


True. True. :grin:

[speedform]

I've used the RRE Kyo-Ei wheel studs in the past, and recently switched over to the ARP wheel studs. I run 5mm spacers in front. As you can see I'm not shy about hitting the berms and I've never had a broken wheel stud. I am pretty religious about keeping the lug nuts correctly torqued.

The nice thing about the ARP studs is they have a little "blank" bit at the tip so you can just stick the lugnut on and hit it (carefully!) with an impact gun with very little risk of cross-threading--no need to start threading the nut by hand.

Good seeing everybody out at BW this past weekend. Whenever I wasn't in the car I was in the classroom at the Driving Concepts competition licensing school so unfortunately I didn't get to meet any of you.


I talked to you for a bit, seeing as we were parked pretty close together. So how did you like the Driving Concepts race school? I took it a couple years ago and initially my driving style didn't feel different, but I was consistently 3 sec. a lap faster. A fun class for those wanting to get their race license.

[Barfly]

I've used the RRE Kyo-Ei wheel studs in the past, and recently switched over to the ARP wheel studs. I run 5mm spacers in front. As you can see I'm not shy about hitting the berms and I've never had a broken wheel stud. I am pretty religious about keeping the lug nuts correctly torqued.

The nice thing about the ARP studs is they have a little "blank" bit at the tip so you can just stick the lugnut on and hit it (carefully!) with an impact gun with very little risk of cross-threading--no need to start threading the nut by hand.

Good seeing everybody out at BW this past weekend. Whenever I wasn't in the car I was in the classroom at the Driving Concepts competition licensing school so unfortunately I didn't get to meet any of you.

So how did you like the Driving Concepts race school?


+1. I'm interested in how it went as well. Once I get the cage, I will be signing up.

[vtluu]

I enjoyed the school though it remains to be seen if I'll be recommended for a racing license, due to a couple of mistakes I made during the racing exercises. During a simulated race session I started from the back of the pack (of about 20 cars) and proceeded to pass about half the field between the green flag start and turn 1. I got a bit carried away jockeying for position into T1 with someone in a Z3 and ended up going very wide into the turn, forcing him to drive off to avoid hitting me. Race control actually thought we'd made contact, and we came within an inch or so but didn't actually touch. Then on the simulated race yesterday I kinda did the same thing though with somewhat less drama. I guess I got carried away during the start, because I was much calmer/controlled for the rest of the races. Also, during the same race the only two cars fast enough for me to "play" with (I started in 8th and was up to 3rd coming out of T1) were two instructor-driven E36 M3s, and they got real nervous when it looked like I was trying to go 3-wide into the esses. (I wasn't, I was just sticking real close to them and seeing if an opening presented itself; none did so I didn't try a pass.) Getting dressed down in front of the whole class was a bit uncomfortable but to be fair, I wasn't the only one (not by a long shot) and to a large extent I deserved it.

I'd almost say my car was a bit "too" fast for the school. The main problem was there wasn't anybody (except VJ of course but he was only around a couple sessions yesterday) for me to "play" with. There was a (non-Z06) C6 there but the driver wasn't very fast. I'd pass a few cars and then it'd be open-track driving for me until I caught up to lap traffic. In one session I deliberately slowed down and let a whole bunch of cars by just so I could practice being passed and then catching and passing them. I might be tempted to do the school again in my daily-driver Miata--I think you can learn a lot more about racing if you have a car that's slower than others'.

I think I'd like to learn more advanced race-craft techniques however--something like a school for people with some racing experience already. There seemed a wide variety of experience levels amongst the students at this school--supposedly everybody was up to open-passing HPDE level, but I was surprised (actually, sadly I wasn't) how squeamish some people seemed to be about passing or getting passed in turns. So a lot of time was spent kind of getting everybody up to the same level.

Nevertheless I learned quite a lot and enjoyed the school overall. I think the goal of the school was more on how to be a safe racer--unarguably a necessary step before becoming a successful racer. I'd definitely recommend it as a good starting point for someone interested in getting into wheel-to-wheel racing.

[Barfly]

I'd almost say my car was a bit "too" fast for the school. The main problem was there wasn't anybody (except VJ of course but he was only around a couple sessions yesterday) for me to "play" with. There was a (non-Z06) C6 there but the driver wasn't very fast. I'd pass a few cars and then it'd be open-track driving for me until I caught up to lap traffic. In one session I deliberately slowed down and let a whole bunch of cars by just so I could practice being passed and then catching and passing them. I might be tempted to do the school again in my daily-driver Miata--I think you can learn a lot more about racing if you have a car that's slower than others'.

I think I'd like to learn more advanced race-craft techniques however--something like a school for people with some racing experience already. There seemed a wide variety of experience levels amongst the students at this school--supposedly everybody was up to open-passing HPDE level, but I was surprised (actually, sadly I wasn't) how squeamish some people seemed to be about passing or getting passed in turns. So a lot of time was spent kind of getting everybody up to the same level.



I noticed that as well. The pace of the racing school seemed to be much slower than the open passing HPDE 4/TT group. I noticed several drivers out there that normally run in the intermediate group. They seemed very cautious when VJ came up behind them. I saw several brake check and then go off-line.Â* :-o

I agree that it does seem disadvantageous sometimes to run a fast car. You are expected to be fast. While in a lower HP car it appears much more impressive when, through superior driving, you pass the bigger dogs. I think it would also teach you to take advantage of every opportunity that you have, making sure that your line is perfect, maximizing braking, maximizing corner exit speed, etc. With a higher HP car, you can just nail the throttle and you are soon forgetting about that last corner. At some point, I am interested in getting a lower HP car such as a spec miata, spec 944, spec E30, etc just to become a more complete driver. Of course, I would also like to pick up a porche cup car, race prepped z06, viper comp, etc ;)

[hagakure]

The stuff you guys are talking about is why I feel fine just testing for a competition license out of HPDE4 TT with NASA. the open passing group in NASA is the closest thing I have come to racing yet. With the exception of trying to take th apex away from another driver, it's balls out...safely and competently so far, in my estimation, in the norcal group. You literally get passed ANTWHERE there is room...John Griggs went flying past me last time out at T-hill over the bypass, but it was controlled, he presented himself well, it was all good. I will get a competiton license via NASA when the time is right. But, I think a few more years of TT is in the cards first. Good info about the school Tam.

[vtluu]

Percy, my understanding of the licensing process is that in order to apply for your rookie license, you need to be recommended by an approved school. The Driving Concepts school is the vehicle for obtaining this approval with SoCal NASA, though there may be other ways. I agree with what you say about HPDE4/TT (I get the same kind of experience running with NCRC and racing with ARC) but I doubt you'll be able to apply for a license simply on the basis of your HPDE4/TT experience. But as you said, you've got a few years to figure it out--I'm going with a "known" path because I'm trying to get my license to race next year.

[Barfly]

the open passing group in NASA is the closest thing I have come to racing yet. With the exception of trying to take th apex away from another driver, it's balls out...safely and competently so far, in my estimation, in the norcal group.


I agree. I didn't have a transponder for the first session Saturday. So, I started at the back of the pack for session 2. I had to fight for nearly every position! No one wants to just give you a corner as they are all running against the clock. A guy that I was running against for a few sessions was only a second or two slower than me, but he made me earn the higher pregrid position - I took turn one on the inside...he kept the outside line, got a better exit speed and I had to drag with him to the essess. :) Very fun. It's nothing like running in any of the advanced groups in the other track event clubs.

[speedform]

Barfly...so true. Greg Greenbaum kinda frowns on those NOT running transponders in Group 4 (ergo not running TT), which to me is a little unfair but whatever. Unfortunately it puts you at the back of the grid which under passing can get a little hairy (and fun!).
I had a similar 'drag' story with a fellow instructor driving a wide-body 944 turbo. He dive-bombed me going into turn 1 where I cut to the inside and it was a drag race to the esses. Unfortunately he had the better line so I pushed him as far as I could before backing out. At which point he realized he was carrying too much speed, hit the berm and shot off the track. Poor guy. ;)

[Barfly]

Barfly...so true. Greg Greenbaum kinda frowns on those NOT running transponders in Group 4 (ergo not running TT), which to me is a little unfair but whatever. Unfortunately it puts you at the back of the grid which under passing can get a little hairy (and fun!).
I had a similar 'drag' story with a fellow instructor driving a wide-body 944 turbo. He dive-bombed me going into turn 1 where I cut to the inside and it was a drag race to the esses. Unfortunately he had the better line so I pushed him as far as I could before backing out. At which point he realized he was carrying too much speed, hit the berm and shot off the track. Poor guy. ;)


:grin:

[hagakure]

Tam,

In norcal if you have extensive experience in group 4 you can appeal to have a license test, and a race license instructor can check you out for a rookie license during a day. You do not have to attend a race school per se.








Percy, my understanding of the licensing process is that in order to apply for your rookie license, you need to be recommended by an approved school. The Driving Concepts school is the vehicle for obtaining this approval with SoCal NASA, though there may be other ways. I agree with what you say about HPDE4/TT (I get the same kind of experience running with NCRC and racing with ARC) but I doubt you'll be able to apply for a license simply on the basis of your HPDE4/TT experience. But as you said, you've got a few years to figure it out--I'm going with a "known" path because I'm trying to get my license to race next year.

[vtluu]

Tam,
In norcal if you have extensive experience in group 4 you can appeal to have a license test, and a race license instructor can check you out for a rookie license during a day. You do not have to attend a race school per se.

Interesting, that's good to know. I haven't run HPDE4 with NASA but between the Driving Concepts school and the ARC racing experience I'll have by then, I wonder if I'll be able to take that route as well?

[Richard EVO]

Do you guys find that the "simulated race" conditions of NASA HPDE 4 fun enough to make up for the serious lack of track time you get at NASA events? Four 20-minute sessions is your whole day, right? :buck2:

[hagakure]

Actually Richard, I do.
I have found the level of driving and Skill in HPDE4 and TT higher than any other group I have gone with, and it's a LOT of fun. I'm finding 80 minutes of track time is enough for me generally, easier on my car, much easier on my wallet. So, I'm down with NASA. I do the occasional day with NCRC as well, but next season is going to be 6 NASA TT weekends, with an eye on winning TTA. John Mueller gave me sage advice when he said that I should just run less, and make the events I do count with specific goals, NASA TT is the best way for me to do that and have a lot of fun. Betweek that and karting I'll get all the 4 wheel thrills I need.





Do you guys find that the "simulated race" conditions of NASA HPDE 4 fun enough to make up for the serious lack of track time you get at NASA events? Four 20-minute sessions is your whole day, right? :buck2:

[ryan0]

I'd almost say my car was a bit "too" fast for the school.


that part of racing too.. get used to it.. depending on the class you run, you could be up to 20 secs faster than some of the other cars in your group.

another big lesson to be learned is .. if you are the fastest.. theres no point in trying to win in turn 1.

[ryan0]

Interesting, that's good to know. I haven't run HPDE4 with NASA but between the Driving Concepts school and the ARC racing experience I'll have by then, I wonder if I'll be able to take that route as well?


actually the best way to do it is do a SCCA super school and they give you a provisional.. do 2 races.. get your regional and NASA will grant you a provisional also.

[ryan0]

I had to fight for nearly every position! No one wants to just give you a corner as they are all running against the clock.


not exactly true.. the strategy in TT is to get clean laps... if letting a few slower cars pass me on a lap, instead of racing to pass a LOT of slower cars. gets me a clean lap next time by.. you do it.

passing under race conditions is a LOT different.

ARC and NCRC are good groups to run with.. and the racing is very safe.

[hagakure]

I agree with you, and obviously race passing is much different, closer, etc...
But whe n there are 60 cars on track it's difficult to get clear track at times no matter what you do. It's still fun though, and that's what most of us on here are after I would assume.









I had to fight for nearly every position! No one wants to just give you a corner as they are all running against the clock.


not exactly true.. the strategy in TT is to get clean laps... if letting a few slower cars pass me on a lap, instead of racing to pass a LOT of slower cars. gets me a clean lap next time by.. you do it.

passing under race conditions is a LOT different.

ARC and NCRC are good groups to run with.. and the racing is very safe.

[ryan0]

I agree with you, and obviously race passing is much different, closer, etc...
But whe n there are 60 cars on track it's difficult to get clear track at times no matter what you do. It's still fun though, and that's what most of us on here are after I would assume.


nasa runs 60 cars for TT? daym..

yeah passing is fun.. all i was saying is that people are more likely to let you by when there is no $3 plastic trophy at stake.

[Barfly]

I agree with you, and obviously race passing is much different, closer, etc...
But whe n there are 60 cars on track it's difficult to get clear track at times no matter what you do. It's still fun though, and that's what most of us on here are after I would assume.


yeah passing is fun.. all i was saying is that people are more likely to let you by when there is no $3 plastic trophy at stake.



NASA does give out medals :) Maybe that's why everyone was so determined.

[ryan0]

NASA does give out medals :) Maybe that's why everyone was so determined.


for TT?.. niiiice.. but dont you have to run like 5 events minimum or some shit?

the download sessions just KILL me.

[Barfly]

NASA does give out medals :) Maybe that's why everyone was so determined.


for TT?.. niiiice.. but dont you have to run like 5 events minimum or some shit?

the download sessions just KILL me.


Medals are given out for the day, after 4 sessions.

The downloads do suck as we really don't talk about technique or tuning in TT. Instead, we spend 15 minutes talking about why the same person keeps going off track. Then, they are moved down. Wash, repeat.

[ryan0]

The downloads do suck as we really don't talk about technique or tuning in TT. Instead, we spend 15 minutes talking about why the same person keeps going off track. Then, they are moved down. Wash, repeat.


the only time i drove in a TT session we got to listen to the dude talk about how great a racer he 'used to' be... oh.. and 'how do you cinch your street belts tight?'..

i left early.

[hagakure]

You don't have to run five events to medal...I've got the "medal" for a 2nd place to prove it...you have to run a minimum of five events to qualify for nationals. NASA is just trying to make the TT group a legitimate stepping stone to racing. Hence the national licensing/check out that you have to have to run the TT's. there are also a LOT of racers and racecars int he TT group, at least up here in Norcal, and not a marked division of skill ( at least car handling ability, not racecraft) between the good TT drivers and the racers. Group 4 in Norcal is a very serious endeavor in that they make a lot of effort to make sure that if you do not belong in that group, you are out. I for one appreciate that immensely. Yes, the downloads can be tedious, I admit.

[Barfly]

there are also a LOT of racers and racecars in the TT group, at least up here in Norcal, and not a marked division of skill ( at least car handling ability, not racecraft) between the good TT drivers and the racers.


Same with SoCal. A lot of the racers will go straight from their racing group into a TT session.

There are a lot of good drivers in TT and beyond, and I have a LOT to learn. I'm not deluding myself as there were 2 TTB drivers faster than me and one TTC driver (Greg Grenbaum). A stock IX MR is classed in TTB and with only light mods (tires, suspension, flash, exhaust) you are in TTA. A decent TTA time would probably be a low 2 minute mark and not a 2:05-2:06 (where everyone placed).

And for those not wanting to run only 4, 20 minute sessions in a given day should really still consider NASA if you want to become a better, faster driver. Unless, of course, you enjoy destroying a field of slow cars. ;)

[ryan0]

And for those not wanting to run only 4, 20 minute sessions in a given day should really still consider NASA if you want to become a better, faster driver. Unless, of course, you enjoy destroying a field of slow cars. ;)


hehe.. see you at laguna :)

[Barfly]

And for those not wanting to run only 4, 20 minute sessions in a given day should really still consider NASA if you want to become a better, faster driver. Unless, of course, you enjoy destroying a field of slow cars. ;)


hehe.. see you at laguna :)


:)

I will be crawling at Laguna myself.

[ryan0]

I will be crawling at Laguna myself.


so you run TTA?.. i think id have to do TTR.. time to renew my nasa license i guess.. i want medals!.. weeeeeeeee

[Barfly]

I will be crawling at Laguna myself.


so you run TTA?.. i think id have to do TTR.. time to renew my nasa license i guess.. i want medals!.. weeeeeeeee


Yeah, TTA. It doesn't take much to move up a class, so you may be TTR. Greenbaum has apparently tightened the ship up a lot and running TT can be very competitive.

[nj1266]

I used to race with NASA until this season. I was in their SE-R Cup. I raced for approx 3 year and hotlapped for 2 years with NASA. Now I am running with SCCA in their RS class. Next season I will be in the SCCA ITA class.

If you want to get a competition license you are better off getting it with SCCA than with NASA. After all the experience that I accumulated with NASA, I only got a novice license from SCCA. I had to appelas for a an SCCA scholl waiver for God's sake. This is how little the NASA license is respected. After all the money and experience that I poured into NASA, I barely got my foor in the door with SCCA. I was put on observation with SCCA for 6 races before I got my national SCCA comp lic no less. How embarassing is that. NASA is a joke. Don't waste you money on their lic. Get an ACCA lic instead and then you can use that lic for NASA. NASA recognizes an SCCA lic, but SCCA does not recognize a NASA lic. That says it all.

[hagakure]

Is it that NASA is a joke or that NASA is a competitor that has cut DEEPLY into the SCCA's business in the past five years? There are a lot of NASA drivers that drive both SCCA and NASA and s that do not consider NASA racing a joke. I don't think that this is a general consensus, just politics.





I used to race with NASA until this season. I was in their SE-R Cup. I raced for approx 3 year and hotlapped for 2 years with NASA. Now I am running with SCCA in their RS class. Next season I will be in the SCCA ITA class.

If you want to get a competition license you are better off getting it with SCCA than with NASA. After all the experience that I accumulated with NASA, I only got a novice license from SCCA. I had to appelas for a an SCCA scholl waiver for God's sake. This is how little the NASA license is respected. After all the money and experience that I poured into NASA, I barely got my foor in the door with SCCA. I was put on observation with SCCA for 6 races before I got my national SCCA comp lic no less. How embarassing is that. NASA is a joke. Don't waste you money on their lic. Get an ACCA lic instead and then you can use that lic for NASA. NASA recognizes an SCCA lic, but SCCA does not recognize a NASA lic. That says it all.

[Richard EVO]

"A Rocket-Powered Woodchuck"

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[nj1266]

Is it that NASA is a joke or that NASA is a competitor that has cut DEEPLY into the SCCA's business in the past five years? There are a lot of NASA drivers that drive both SCCA and NASA and s that do not consider NASA racing a joke. I don't think that this is a general consensus, just politics.
I have raced in both SCCA and NASA and SCCA is heads and shoulders better than NASA. SCCA respects the competitors, NASA does not. NASA is very cliquish (at least here in SOCAL). SCCA is far more orginzed than NASA when it comnes to actual racing.

Just to give you an one example, SCCA has a transpondere tester that they use on the cars when parked in the grid to make sure that racers have lap times for qualifying. NASA does not. With NASA they write on the results sheets that you do not have a lap time AFTER the fact and then you are SOL.

Another example. SCCA has a splitter on the mouth of the entry to the track that splits the car left and right so you do not have to guess your grid position on flying starts. NASA has none of that. To make sure that cars do not speed past the splitter and possible cause physical harm to the person, SCCA has a radar gun that enforces a 15 mph limit past the splitter. NASA has none of that.

One more example. SCCA take dba sound samples of the race cars to make sure that you comply with the maximum 103 dba sound limit. This way if you go to Laguan Seca where there is a strict sound limit you do not get penalized and DQed. NASA has none of that.

Lastly, SCCA gives actual trophies and not the 30c made-in-China medals that NASA gives.

There is a reason why NASA cannot compete with SCCA on all of the above. SCCA is a not-for-profit organization. This means that SCCA can plow every penny they make back into the organization. They do not have to show a profit and pay the owners of the business. Basically, SCCA is a club. NASA is a business and MUST show a profit.

When it comes to hotlapping, NASA is the better choice, but when it comes to racing SCCA is the place to be.

[hagakure]

Thanks for the info!:)

It's appreciated.








Is it that NASA is a joke or that NASA is a competitor that has cut DEEPLY into the SCCA's business in the past five years? There are a lot of NASA drivers that drive both SCCA and NASA and s that do not consider NASA racing a joke. I don't think that this is a general consensus, just politics.
I have raced in both SCCA and NASA and SCCA is heads and shoulders better than NASA. SCCA respects the competitors, NASA does not. NASA is very cliquish (at least here in SOCAL). SCCA is far more orginzed than NASA when it comnes to actual racing.

Just to give you an one example, SCCA has a transpondere tester that they use on the cars when parked in the grid to make sure that racers have lap times for qualifying. NASA does not. With NASA they write on the results sheets that you do not have a lap time AFTER the fact and then you are SOL.

Another example. SCCA has a splitter on the mouth of the entry to the track that splits the car left and right so you do not have to guess your grid position on flying starts. NASA has none of that. To make sure that cars do not speed past the splitter and possible cause physical harm to the person, SCCA has a radar gun that enforces a 15 mph limit past the splitter. NASA has none of that.

One more example. SCCA take dba sound samples of the race cars to make sure that you comply with the maximum 103 dba sound limit. This way if you go to Laguan Seca where there is a strict sound limit you do not get penalized and DQed. NASA has none of that.

Lastly, SCCA gives actual trophies and not the 30c made-in-China medals that NASA gives.

There is a reason why NASA cannot compete with SCCA on all of the above. SCCA is a not-for-profit organization. This means that SCCA can plow every penny they make back into the organization. They do not have to show a profit and pay the owners of the business. Basically, SCCA is a club. NASA is a business and MUST show a profit.

When it comes to hotlapping, NASA is the better choice, but when it comes to racing SCCA is the place to be.

[ryan0]

If you want to get a competition license you are better off getting it with SCCA than with NASA.


exactly.. like i said somewhere before, in this split, convoluted thread.. if you have your SCCA provisional, NASA will just issue you a license. It isnt so easy the other way around.

[Siyah]

Excuse me (Nj1266)..... if SCCA does not respect the NASA license...it is not because 'NASA is a joke' like u said...it is because of SCCA politics...(and they probably think they are something better anyway).
NASA is a competing org. and therefore SCCA will make things difficult.
SCCA was big in the early days...but NASA has grown, the fact that NASA recognizes the SCCA licenses is because of the past while NASA was still small and was trying to establish themselves.

And by the way I have seen SCCA racers and instructors too and some of them are jokes too (besides they can't drive)....so stop talking nonsense about NASA. Both organizations have advantages and disadvantage's and yes both have good and bad drivers.

[nj1266]

When I went to the NASA racing school (driving concepts) EVERYONE was recommended for a lic. No one was rejected even those who made the most egregious of errors. NASA's standards are low for a reason, they are a BUSINESS and they must show a proft so they allow almost everyone. They allow those who have an SCCA lic because they need to make as much money as they can. In one region, they even allowed a STOCK FORD EXPLORER to hot lap on the track.

SCCA can afford to reject NASA members, but NASA cannot. SCCA is a CLUB and not a for profit business. That is the reason why NASA accepts an SCCA lic and SCCA does not.

No matter what the reason, the fact remains that it is better to get an SCCA lic so you can race in both organizations. You will spend less money this way.




Excuse me (Nj1266)..... if SCCA does not respect the NASA license...it is not because 'NASA is a joke' like u said...it is because of SCCA politics...(and they probably think they are something better anyway).
NASA is a competing org. and therefore SCCA will make things difficult.
SCCA was big in the early days...but NASA has grown, the fact that NASA recognizes the SCCA licenses is because of the past while NASA was still small and was trying to establish themselves.

And by the way I have seen SCCA racers and instructors too and some of them are jokes too (besides they can't drive)....so stop talking nonsense about NASA. Both organizations have advantages and disadvantage's and yes both have good and bad drivers.

[ryan0]

No matter what the reason, the fact remains that it is better to get an SCCA lic so you can race in both organizations. You will spend less money this way.


this should be the only suggestion worth a shit.. BOTH of them have their issues.. just pick up a GCR.. its getting to be dictionary sized.. any org with that many rules is going to have issues.. BOTH are political as shit.. so cal scca doesnt follow the same rules as no cal scca.. etc.

these two clubs are the only real racing option.. so you deal with them.. but the suggestion is correct.. get your scca lic first.. nasa will then give you on with out a hassle.

[Siyah]

Amen... :angel: .well...since we are not making the rules...just from a time/money saving aspect....yes u are right... get the SCCA license and you are done for both O0

[Richard EVO]

Saying NASA is the best place for hot-lapping is ludicrous. It's the worst place. I don't think hot lapping is even available at SCCA.

[Barfly]

Saying NASA is the best place for hot-lapping is ludicrous. It's the worst place. I don't think hot lapping is even available at SCCA.


For hotlap competition it is. It's not great in terms of overall amount of time on the track.

[slider]

I used to race with NASA until this season. I was in their SE-R Cup. I raced for approx 3 year and hotlapped for 2 years with NASA. Now I am running with SCCA in their RS class. Next season I will be in the SCCA ITA class.

If you want to get a competition license you are better off getting it with SCCA than with NASA. After all the experience that I accumulated with NASA, I only got a novice license from SCCA. I had to appelas for a an SCCA scholl waiver for God's sake. This is how little the NASA license is respected. After all the money and experience that I poured into NASA, I barely got my foor in the door with SCCA. I was put on observation with SCCA for 6 races before I got my national SCCA comp lic no less. How embarassing is that. NASA is a joke. Don't waste you money on their lic. Get an ACCA lic instead and then you can use that lic for NASA. NASA recognizes an SCCA lic, but SCCA does not recognize a NASA lic. That says it all.


nj1266, are you scca norcal?

[Richard EVO]

I used to race with NASA until this season. I was in their SE-R Cup. I raced for approx 3 year and hotlapped for 2 years with NASA. Now I am running with SCCA in their RS class. Next season I will be in the SCCA ITA class.

If you want to get a competition license you are better off getting it with SCCA than with NASA. After all the experience that I accumulated with NASA, I only got a novice license from SCCA. I had to appelas for a an SCCA scholl waiver for God's sake. This is how little the NASA license is respected. After all the money and experience that I poured into NASA, I barely got my foor in the door with SCCA. I was put on observation with SCCA for 6 races before I got my national SCCA comp lic no less. How embarassing is that. NASA is a joke. Don't waste you money on their lic. Get an ACCA lic instead and then you can use that lic for NASA. NASA recognizes an SCCA lic, but SCCA does not recognize a NASA lic. That says it all.


nj1266, are you scca norcal?


Kent,

Naji is local in the SoCal area, and as far as I know races in SCCA SoCal. I'm pretty sure you have met him. I think (if I remember correctly) he was there the day you got your NASA license about 2 years ago, although I could have it confused with another event. I remember introducing him to John, and he drove my car at Buttonwillow and scared me pretty good.

[slider]

Thanks Richard, I thought I knew him!