Leap of faith: AMS 35R turbo kit to TTech 35R kit

[Smogrunner]

Hello online Brothers and Sisters,
I have never been one to fix something that is not broke in the first place but I'm doing exactly that this week. I sold my perfectly functioning AMS 35R kit for almost enough to buy a brand new Tuning Technologies turbo kit. After seeing how well Alfred's kit performs on his car, I'm betting that I'll be happy with it.

I opted for the version that retains the factory heatshield. I'm having my original heatshield double heat coated at Turbohot, Inc. I had to decide whether or not to have my exhaust manifold heat treated. I decided to leave it alone. After a few months, the untreated stainless will look more natural under the hood if and when the popo take a look.

I'm still trying to decide what to do in terms of the stock airbox: I have it at TT ready to reinstall if I want, or I can just go with the good ol' K&N cone filter.

Performance wise, I'm just betting that we will see a tie. I went with a 35R turbo that has pretty much identical specs. I considered getting both bigger and smaller turbos, but decided that the one I have is a fantastic compromise for both huge power potential and acceptable lag. I'm hoping that the TT kit will be quieter with its thicker stainless steel and shorter runners. The AMS kits are pretty loud. I'm also willing to bet that under the hood temps will be lower as well, due the low profile design of the TT kit and the heat shield being used.

I also sold my 880cc injectors and have purchased a set of 1000cc ones to make sure we have enough fuel. Last time out, we had to bump up our base idle fuel pressure a lot to ensure enough fuel could get past those 880s.

We hope to have it installed and retuned in time for the ucoming IDRC Drag Race event at Cal Speedway Nov 18. Alfred thinks he has the couple of little things that kept me out of the 10s last time out, so hopefully we can bust a 10.9 or 10.8 at around 130.

As you all know, I'll be sure to post up lots of pics, dyno graphs, and real world track results to show how the new TT kit stacks up against what many believe to be the most proven and powerful kit on the market.

[1of1000MR]

Hey Tom, do u think you'll be over 600whp with the T-Tech kit? When are u guys planning to tune it?

[ArBizZzLe]

Awesome, goodluck bud.

I'll probably be there on the 18th if its a regular drag event like always.

[Smogrunner]

Hey Tom, do u think you'll be over 600whp with the T-Tech kit? When are u guys planning to tune it?


Good question: We got the 584whp on exactly 31psi. So there was definitely more power to be made on my last kit. So, assuming the new kit does what it is supposed to do, we should be able to make 600whp if we wanted to by just adding a couple of psi of boost. That isn't my goal, however. If we can get it to the SAME power levels and just get it to run smoother during hard shifting and super high rpms, it will run 10s easily. Alfred is smoothening out the timing changes experienced during shifts, and rescaling the X axis on some of the maps in the ecu to address this.

Damn: I'm gonna miss that sexy engine bay.

[1of1000MR]

Well, best of luck to u Tom. I'm sure your driving & Alfred's tuning will put u in the 10's O0

[gnulooks]

Smoggy, it will be interesting to see that new kit on your car. I can't wait! I'm glad that your going to run the stock heat shield, which will give your car that stealth look and keep the local popo off your arse. Hopefully next year, I too will be sporting a TT turbo kit. Let me see big screen TV or turbo kit...

[*chris*]

i figured this was coming. good luck with the TT kit. ill be interested to see the outcome ...even though im still going with the ams kit.

[IXMREVO]

I would miss the sexy engine bay too but the TT kit sounds like its the best out there/ most stock looking.

[javinsMR]

very interesting tom... im sure alfred will work his magic on your new kit. congrats!

[ANTHONY]

Good luck with the kit! keep us updated, How much did it run you?

[JOOTZ]

handled that piece while i was having the car tuned
what caught my attention was the use of the stock heatshield
very stealthy
good luck!!!














.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9537/criticgoodyw6.gif

[grafix43]

I was on the website a few days ago and i thought i remember that the next open street legal drags in fontana were on saturday dec 2nd.... unless you are running in some other sort of drags??? just curious cause i plan on going the 2nd and watching, but if you're gonna be there the 18th for something i'd like to come watch you hit 10's ;)

[fusionchicken]

damn good luck with the transition. good luck with 10's and 130 traps....it will not be an easy task by any means, but u can do it!! :D

[socalmr]

smog-
since you are going to be using the 1000cc inj on the tt kit and you only used 880's on the ams, do you think that it is a fair judgement if the tt kit makes more power?

also, since the tt kit has shorter runners, you should have less lag as well right?

[Smogrunner]

smog-
since you are going to be using the 1000cc inj on the tt kit and you only used 880's on the ams, do you think that it is a fair judgement if the tt kit makes more power?

also, since the tt kit has shorter runners, you should have less lag as well right?


The 1000cc injectors just give us the needed headroom so that we don't have to play around with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator to add fuel. This way, I can run the exact same base idle fuel pressure (around 43psi) on both race and pump gas maps, which will make it a little easier to switch maps back and forth.

As far as the short runners go, I guess in theory the turbo might be more responsive, but I'm not making any predictions because the AMS kit performed flawlessly. We'll see. I'm confident to predict that my car will be WAY stealthier under the hood AND it will be quieter under the hood. The AMS's exhaust manifold with its long curved runners really resonates a lot of exhaust noize.

I'm hoping to be able to post up how it turns out this Friday.

[blkside]

No shit you give poor schmucks like me something to shoot for... That is awesome that they have it way stealther than the one in your sig,,,,

[GokuSSJ4]

best of luck to you señor Smog! and hope you are able to achieve your goals with the new kit...

[dkc]

Can't wait to see your results! My car was just dropped of with TT for the TTech 3076 kit with most of the parts (I think) powdered coated black.

[SilverMr]

What happened with the tune???

[Smogrunner]

Turbo kit is on, but its not tuned yet. We'll have something to report soon.

[Terry S]

Turbo kit is on, but its not tuned yet. We'll have something to report soon.


Is the MAF still holding up? Or have you had to make a few more refinements?

Terry S

[Smogrunner]

Turbo kit is on, but its not tuned yet. We'll have something to report soon.


Is the MAF still holding up? Or have you had to make a few more refinements?

Terry S


MAF is hanging in there just fine. Most of you probably already saw this on the other TT thread, but here is a pic of how my engine bay is coming along:

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/12527/16180551611_0_ALB.jpg

[IXMREVO]

its so stock looking, what a huge difference.

[Smogrunner]

I have some news. Alfred got my car finished today, except for the tune. Here are some aspects of the project that I can comment on:

Fit and Finish: Excellent. The stock airbox mated to the maf/intake pipe without a fuss. This is one of the nicest pieces of the kit as the BOV vents straight toward the compressor and away from the MAF. Downpipe: A little trickier as Alfred took some extra time modding it so that my older exhaust system mated up perfectly. This might not seem like a big consideration to many, but those of us that have been around the Evos for awhile have repeatedly seen the most jacked up looking cockeyed tailpipes, and these problems often start with poor fitting downpipes that tweak the rest of the system every which way but THE RIGHT WAY. Then, you end up with an off center bumper burning tailpipe. Here is an older pic of my exhaust, and now it fits even better as it sits about a quarter inch higher:
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10300/normal_V%2520exhaust.jpg
(Sorry if some of you got your eyes burned seeing the name of the Unmentionable One stickered to my car.Â* :2funny: I've gone with a completely sticker free approach now)


Idle with 1000cc injectors: Alfred did some minor guesstimate tweeks of my ECU last week while my car was down to dial in my new 1000cc Precision injectors. I was already running 880s so it shouldn't have been much of a concern. But, very few people are using 1000s on the stock ECU and Alfred had run into some problems last week tuning another Evo with 1000cc RC brand injectors. Fortunately, these injectors and Alfred's tweeks worked fabulously. The car fired right up and idled perfectly without any additional tuning whatsoever. On top of that, the idle while driving is the best I have experienced since the car was stock: no kidding and I'll back up this up on Saturday at the big TT meet if anyone wants to see for themselves. It simply idles every bit as good as stock, even at all the normal problem areas like sudden stops or with the AC on. I guess the combination of the stock airbox, intake/maf pipe design, the Forge RS BOV, and whatever other magic Alfred built into this kit really work. Here is another pic that shows some plumbing:
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10300/normal_TT%20kit%20Smoggy%20001.jpg


Under the hood noize: Pretty much gone. The AMS kit makes huge power but it is loud. Its long runners really resonate and the the cone filter makes those typical sucking noizes. This kit is really quiet under the hood to the point of being boring - and that is good in this day and age. It is also super smooth on the road, whereas my old kit tended to be slightly more agitated with honks from the wastegate and BOV farts.

Power: No time to tune tonight, but Alfred is going to tackle it on Friday to have it ready for the SoCalEvo meet. There is absolutely no reason to believe it will make more power than the AMS kit, especially with the stock airbox in the high 500whp range. We are simply hoping for it to have comparable results. It may spool slightly faster but that remains to be seen. Fingers are crossed...
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10300/normal_TT%20kit%20Smoggy%20002.jpg

[*chris*]

good update tom. hope it works out good with that kit. btw, whatd you do with your ams 35r?

[DUROEVO]

Did you get your tune yet?

[fusionchicken]

^+1 can't wait to see some numbers/graphs :) i love ur engine bay :D

[j_nizzle]

looks awesome!!!

[JDMC-WestEVO]

+1 very stealth looking the heatshield looks really good with the heat coating could u pm me the website or a number to call to get that done. thanks

[Smogrunner]

The good news: The car made 443whp/398wtq at just under 21.5 and spool up is indeed measurably better than the AMS kit. The WHP would have been a little higher but the dyno pull was aborted at 6400 due to reasons listed below. The spool up of the 35R yesterday was kinda unbelievable, but the cold temps must have helped in that regard. However, when comparing AMS vs TT turbo spool up in Cold vs. Cold conditions the TT kit was still better. Its streetability is unmatched versus any other 35R equiped Evo I have ever been in.

The bad news: After only 9,000 miles, my $3,000+ Exedy Triple Carbon Clutch gave out. Alfred had to stop tuning due to this. I am really upset about this because a lot of Exedy people, and Exedy sponsored people recommended this clutch when I was shopping for one. They said that it could handle the power AND the carbon disks would be more streetable than the ceramettalic ones. No one and I mean no one ever mentioned that it would not last an acceptable amount of time, and I am VERY good on clutches. My original Evo clutch was taken out at 22,000 miles and is now on another evo. Same thing with my Cusco twin disk clutch - it is on the Evo of a former TT employee's car.

I'll be contacting Exedy (already left a message with Evan in tech support), maybe they can help me out.

[ANTHONY]

Nice numbers, im guessing this was on pump?

[trinydex]

any news on the clutch smoggie?

[Smogrunner]

First, I'm going to see what Exedy has to say. My next clutch (and my support of Exedy clutches) depends on their reaction.

[fusionchicken]

good to hear the spool up is better...good luck with the clutch issue O0

[EvoPwr]

wow, that is interesting news about the exedy cluth. nice #s though smoggy!

[darthfoul]

IS IT TRUE THAT RnR MADE TT TURBO KIT?I HEARD THAT RYAN MADE ALL THOSE KITS MAYBE IT WAS JUST A RUMOR BUT I AM CURIOUS I MAY BE INTERESTED IN BUYING ONE. WHAT ABOUT ALL THE IC PIPING?

[DUROEVO]

I believe Ryan @ RnR did all the welds on the manifold.

[Alfred@TTech]

Absolutely correct and its no secret. Ryan has some of the best welding skills I have ever seen whether it be Aluminum, SS...etc.

RnR was used solely for fabrication of the kits and carries no rights to them. The entire TTECH GT DBB Turbo Kit is our concept and design which is exclusively available from Tuning Technologies.

If you're interested you should give me a call and we can get you some numbers.

The kit really is a looker and a performer....but can be stealth if need be.


http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/12527/16180551611_0_ALB.jpg


Alfred at TTech

[socalmr]

what is the status of your clutch? i want to know how the kit compares to ams

[8YERV8]

I second that question. What happened to your clutch? Most importantly, how was their customer service?

[Smogrunner]

what is the status of your clutch? i want to know how the kit compares to ams


I've already written quite a bit about how the kit compares to the AMS one, with the exception of MAX power on C16 race fuel and 30+ psi. Search my previous posts for some info, and hang tight for max power comparisons. In terms of my clutch, here is a complete writeup of the whole story which I just cut and pasted from EvoM:

Ok, lemme try to keep it short:

* Alfred was tuning my car on the dyno on 100 octane. He got the baseline timing, AFRs, partial throttle stuff done and was starting to crank up the boost.

* At about 22 psi, the car is making around 445whp/400wtq and the clutch just starts slipping right at peak torque. Alfred tries heating it up a bit, but no dice. It just slips everytime thereafter.

* Alfred gives me the bad news, but at least I get to take my car home as it is fully driveable. Later that night I decide to jump on it and, sure enough, the clutch slips at around 5500rpms. Damn! I leave a couple of messages to the Exedy technical department and do some searches on the EvoM. No call back from Exedy, and the EvoM has about 5 other members who had their $3000+ dollar triple carbon go out on them very early (3000 to 9000 miles). I start looking at affordable alternatives, namely the ACT sprung hub 6 puck with Extreme duty pressure plate: ~ $550 out the door + flywheel. The boys at TTech, Chris and Josh both tell me that they'll help knock out the install as soon as I'm ready, but I'm bummed because I see this money as taking me away from my upcoming 2 piece rotor purchase.

* Here is the weird part. After that first night, it never slips again. I keep waiting for it to give up the ghost, but it doesn't. Now, after a full month of warm weather, cold weather, and inbetween, it holds the power fine. But, keep in mind, this is at around 22psi. Who knows what will happen at 25+. Alfred wants me to come in a finish tuning the 100octane tune right away, so I guess we'll find out if it holds soon enough...

* Theories now being accepted.

(supporting info: the car had been pulled in and out of the TTech shop stone cold every day for about 1 and 1/2 months - no regular driving at all. Just backing out cold and pulling forward at the end of the day cold.)

[EvoPwr]

Theory....maybe some sort of liquid got in there? Probably impossible, but hey why not? :uglystupid2:

[8YERV8]

Thats good news about the clutch. I wasn't so lucky with my Exedy. Victorville Mitsubishi really did a number on it for me :tickedoff: Good news is the new one is in and I go see Alfred Thursday. :grin:

[*chris*]

so any change in the 1000cc/stock ecu drivability? any dislikes? also, how practical is it? i 'might' someday splurge and get the aem and a larger turbo so id like to have room to grow...

[Smogrunner]

so any change in the 1000cc/stock ecu drivability? any dislikes? also, how practical is it? i 'might' someday splurge and get the aem and a larger turbo so id like to have room to grow...


The only drivability problem worth mentioning is that when shifting at medium throttle, the revs float instead of immediately coming down. Alfred hasn't had a chance to tinker with it lately to see if it is an easy fix. Other than that, the car is completely practical: I drive it to work almost every day, average between18.2 and 19mpg. There is absolutely no NEED for an AEM for most of my applications other than pushing for 600whp for drag racing. At that point, an AEM would definitely have advantages.

[trinydex]

wow that is really low gas mileage for biggie turbo

[Smogrunner]

wow that is really low gas mileage for biggie turbo


?
EPA 18 city, 25 highway. I get better mileage now than when my turbo and motor were stock. I don't drive like Ms. Daisy. I have fun with my Evo many times per tank.Â* :twisted: Also, I have gotten 25 miles per gallon on my way home from northern California (when I was driving like Ms. Daisy).

[trinydex]

ah that sounds better (the norcal trip)

[*chris*]

hmmm alright. good hear then, might save me from buying that expensive ems. damn...

[*chris*]

hey smoggy, how much of a pain is it to do 1000s on stock ecu and a big turbo?

[Smogrunner]

It is completely doable. It was a pain for Alfred the first time he ever did it, but now he has knocked out a couple of 1000cc cars on stock ecus, so he no longer has to reinvent the wheel.

[*chris*]

thats good to hear. i might be picking up a set of 1000s this week in preparation for my project. you running ams injectors?

[Smogrunner]

Both AMS and TTech use precision injectors. I have run 880s and 1000s on the stock ecu with no problems.

[kimletrim]

So whatever happened to the "leap of faith"? i lost track. What were the results?

[*chris*]

ok, i just wanted to check.

[Smogrunner]

So whatever happened to the "leap of faith"? i lost track. What were the results?


I have already posted up some various results on this forum. See the spoolup comparo thread and my replies about drivability on this thread. However, we have yet to do a "maximum power" type tune similar to the one that where we made 585whp/527wtq with the AMS kit at 32psi. It is not from anyone trying to hide anything, that I can guarantee.

What I would really like to get Alfred to do is to get my car up around 30psi on its current setup and dial it in on C16. Then, install the intake manifold (ams vsr) see what difference that makes. Then install the GSC S2 cams, have Alfred dial those in, and see what gains come from them.

Unfortunately, doing those tests doesn't put money in Alfreds pocket and he has a shop to run and two kids to feed. I hope Alfred can find the time to do a test like this, but if not, we will install all the new go fast parts all at once and just tune it afterwards. This will yield no scientific data but hopefully we can make some use of the data. And hopefully it will put me into the 10's at over 130mph.

[GokuSSJ4]

So whatever happened to the "leap of faith"? i lost track. What were the results?


I have already posted up some various results on this forum. See the spoolup comparo thread and my replies about drivability on this thread. However, we have yet to do a "maximum power" type tune similar to the one that where we made 585whp/527wtq with the AMS kit at 32psi. It is not from anyone trying to hide anything, that I can guarantee.

What I would really like to get Alfred to do is to get my car up around 30psi on its current setup and dial it in on C16. Then, install the intake manifold (ams vsr) see what difference that makes. Then install the GSC S2 cams, have Alfred dial those in, and see what gains come from them.

Unfortunately, doing those tests doesn't put money in Alfreds pocket and he has a shop to run and two kids to feed. I hope Alfred can find the time to do a test like this, but if not, we will install all the new go fast parts all at once and just tune it afterwards. This will yield no scientific data but hopefully we can make some use of the data. And hopefully it will put me into the 10's at over 130mph.
DO IT!!!! LOL O0

[fusionchicken]

So whatever happened to the "leap of faith"? i lost track. What were the results?


I have already posted up some various results on this forum. See the spoolup comparo thread and my replies about drivability on this thread. However, we have yet to do a "maximum power" type tune similar to the one that where we made 585whp/527wtq with the AMS kit at 32psi. It is not from anyone trying to hide anything, that I can guarantee.

What I would really like to get Alfred to do is to get my car up around 30psi on its current setup and dial it in on C16. Then, install the intake manifold (ams vsr) see what difference that makes. Then install the GSC S2 cams, have Alfred dial those in, and see what gains come from them.

Unfortunately, doing those tests doesn't put money in Alfreds pocket and he has a shop to run and two kids to feed. I hope Alfred can find the time to do a test like this, but if not, we will install all the new go fast parts all at once and just tune it afterwards. This will yield no scientific data but hopefully we can make some use of the data. And hopefully it will put me into the 10's at over 130mph.


130mph....that's crazy. which track did u clock the 128mph trap at? if you don't mind me asking..

[Smogrunner]

California Speedway

[GokuSSJ4]

California Speedway
i wonder if you would manage a higher mph @ Big Willow... you better add a roll cage to the car ...

[EvoPwr]

i still would like to see a comparison done exactly the same as the ams was done..

[*chris*]

how long did it take you to flash for the larger turbo? alot of adjusting between that and the injectors?

[fusionchicken]

California Speedway


thanks.

[EvoPwr]

is there still no update on this? I am very interested to see the finalized comparisons done. lets see the numbers and graphs.

[jdmitr]

So whatever happened to the "leap of faith"? i lost track. What were the results?


I have already posted up some various results on this forum. See the spoolup comparo thread and my replies about drivability on this thread. However, we have yet to do a "maximum power" type tune similar to the one that where we made 585whp/527wtq with the AMS kit at 32psi. It is not from anyone trying to hide anything, that I can guarantee.

What I would really like to get Alfred to do is to get my car up around 30psi on its current setup and dial it in on C16. Then, install the intake manifold (ams vsr) see what difference that makes. Then install the GSC S2 cams, have Alfred dial those in, and see what gains come from them.

Unfortunately, doing those tests doesn't put money in Alfreds pocket and he has a shop to run and two kids to feed. I hope Alfred can find the time to do a test like this, but if not, we will install all the new go fast parts all at once and just tune it afterwards. This will yield no scientific data but hopefully we can make some use of the data. And hopefully it will put me into the 10's at over 130mph.


I think with solid proof and numbers, TT could sell alot more turbo kits. Might even convince me to buy one if I were to see something to wow me.

[Alfred@TTech]

OK, the delay is that TOM keeps buying parts that he wants to put on his car. We will be coming up with a plan of attack here pretty soon. The next time attack is coming up quick and we have to not only get his car done but another of ours. Patience young patawans :grin:

Alfred

[EvoPwr]

See now there is the thing, there will be so many different parts on his car how can you do a real comparison between the 2 kits? All should be the same except the turbo.