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EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 09:06 AM
]


Freakin' POLLUTERS! And for NO LOGICAL reason! ARRRGGGGGHHHH!


Smog laws suck. They hurt only those that cant afford it. Not only that, yes PLEASE make my car run crappier and get worse mileage. Whoever thought it was a swell idea needs to forever be condemned to driving 55 on the 15 just past barstow without end in a Festiva.


It's YOUR kids YOU are leaving this polluted planet to, not mine. Like I said, NO LOGICAL REASON! Thanks for proving my point.

Mike W
11-10-2006, 09:41 AM
People that cry crocodile tears about the enviornment dont drive EVOs.

Mike W

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 09:48 AM
People that cry crocodile tears about the enviornment dont drive EVOs.

Mike W



No one said anything about crocodile tears here. You can drive high-performance vehicles and still CARE about the environment. We have more vehicle choices today that come from the factory with five-hundred or more horsepower and can and do pass the tough Cailfornia emissions standards. So Mike, give me a LOGICAL REASON TO POLLUTE when the manufacturers can do it making upwards of 1001 horsepower (Bugatti Veyron) from the factory and still manage to run clean?Â* And tell me how many people will really need or miss that extra 10-20 horsepower on their street-driven daily driver. If you are a dedicated racer it's understandable, but to pollute 100% of the time for the 5% percent of the time a street car could potentially spend on the track IS ILLOGICAL.

x[corwyn]
11-10-2006, 10:59 AM
Time for some people to get rid of their turbocharged cars and get on the Prius bandwagon. Like Mike said you are TOTALLY driving the wrong car. Hope you at least tuned your car to be "green"

Pops
11-10-2006, 11:13 AM
People that cry crocodile tears about the enviornment dont drive EVOs.

Mike W



No one said anything about crocodile tears here. You can drive high-performance vehicles and still CARE about the environment. We have more vehicle choices today that come from the factory with five-hundred or more horsepower and can and do pass the tough Cailfornia emissions standards. So Mike, give me a LOGICAL REASON TO POLLUTE when the manufacturers can do it making upwards of 1001 horsepower (Bugatti Veyron) from the factory and still manage to run clean? And tell me how many people will really need or miss that extra 10-20 horsepower on their street-driven daily driver. If you are a dedicated racer it's understandable, but to pollute 100% of the time for the 5% percent of the time a street car could potentially spend on the track IS ILLOGICAL.


Communist.

Bet your gardner uses a leaf blower. Those things create more pollution in a day than your un-cated car does over it's life time. :)

Mike W
11-10-2006, 11:14 AM
There are no emission standards for full throttle. At WOT and 11:1 AFR you are pure polluting. The cat does not operate at that point, it only is efficient at stoich. All the CARB exemption orders are issued because you can prove that mods you make only effect full throttle operation and since there are no full throttle standards then it is ok. Owning and operating a car that gets ~4 mpg at WOT is not an enviornmentally friendly coice. Crocodile tears.

Mike W

x[corwyn]
11-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Your argument is about a car that costs HOW MUCH!? Sure...Give me a Bugatti, or even a Porsche GT2 (or GT3 since it probably wont pollute as much as a Turbo car...)

Just as a FYI take a look at how much our cars pollute compared even to the big 4th gen Eclipse with its V6

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 12:50 PM
So this is the excuse you are all using to justify polluting? Give me a break. I still haven't gotten one LOGICAL reason, just piss-poor excuses. Guess that's asking too much.

daniel
11-10-2006, 01:05 PM
Our cars are the smallest percentage of it. Please just stop . Don't go getting all tree hugger until you fully research how much polluting big indstury does in our oceans, waterways, etc. You're like one of those guys that puts money into stopping "street racers" when 100 times more people a year die from AIDS and CANCER because it looks like you're trying to make a "difference" in the hot topics and "change" things. The environment has also been a big wasted political issue since a lot of politician are backed by heavy industry, etc. It's a joke. If it's such a big deal for you then go drive a hybrid and stop trying to force your notions on others. You voted for Bush huh?

I'm not sure what you think you're going to accomplish by posting this (especially here). Why don't you start talking about why the SRT-4 is a great car now too?

x[corwyn]
11-10-2006, 01:26 PM
So this is the excuse you are all using to justify polluting? Give me a break. I still haven't gotten one LOGICAL reason, just piss-poor excuses. Guess that's asking too much.


Here is a reason.

Its stupid and does no good and actually does harm. Just like getting stuck with crappy gas in california for "environmental" reasons. We have gas that actually hurts the cars, gets worse mileage, and is actually WORSE for the environment. All these "Feel good" laws dance around the issue we have debated on other threads. We drive cars that use oil. They pollute. You dont want pollution, dont drive a car. Anyone that drives a car, and especially one that is a performance driven turbo car has NO bearing about whining about the environment. Put your money where your mouth is. Go green and get a bicycle.

daniel
11-10-2006, 01:27 PM
]
All these "Feel good" laws dance around the issue we have debated on other threads.

Yes!

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 01:40 PM
]
Your argument is about a car that costs HOW MUCH!? Sure...Give me a Bugatti, or even a Porsche GT2 (or GT3 since it probably wont pollute as much as a Turbo car...)

Just as a FYI take a look at how much our cars pollute compared even to the big 4th gen Eclipse with its V6


Clearly you missed my point so let me try again. We are living in the golden age of performance. We have more high-horsepower vehicle choices than ever before and under the strictest emissions standards ever. You can buy a 23K Mazdaspeed3 that will produce 263 horsepower, so power isn't as much of a cost factor as it used to be. 10 Years ago, you had to pay dearly for that much power, not we have affordable 300 hp choices everywhere. Emissions compliance and power are not mutually exclusive!

daniel
11-10-2006, 01:46 PM
Clearly you missed my point so let me try again. We are living in the golden age of performance. We have more high-horsepower vehicle choices than ever before and under the strictest emissions standards ever. You can buy a 23K Mazdaspeed3 that will produce 263 horsepower, so power isn't as much of a cost factor as it used to be. 10 Years ago, you had to pay dearly for that much power, not we have affordable 300 hp choices everywhere. Emissions compliance and power are not mutually exclusive!


You're so cool.

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 01:46 PM
Here is a reason. Its stupid and does no good and actually does harm.

Great logic! Amazing analytical thought process. Wow, I'm blown away. Please sling more insults my way to cover up your amazing logical thoughts.

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 01:47 PM
Clearly you missed my point so let me try again. We are living in the golden age of performance. We have more high-horsepower vehicle choices than ever before and under the strictest emissions standards ever. You can buy a 23K Mazdaspeed3 that will produce 263 horsepower, so power isn't as much of a cost factor as it used to be. 10 Years ago, you had to pay dearly for that much power, not we have affordable 300 hp choices everywhere. Emissions compliance and power are not mutually exclusive!


You're so cool.


More insults and no logic. Thanks for the input.

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 01:54 PM
There are no emission standards for full throttle. At WOT and 11:1 AFR you are pure polluting. The cat does not operate at that point, it only is efficient at stoich. All the CARB exemption orders are issued because you can prove that mods you make only effect full throttle operation and since there are no full throttle standards then it is ok. Owning and operating a car that gets ~4 mpg at WOT is not an enviornmentally friendly coice. Crocodile tears.

Mike W



Okay Mike, let's use your logic on this. I will agree that almost all vehicles are going to pollute under WOT. Let's just say for arguement sake that you drive your vehicle 50% of the time at WOT. Now I think we can all agree that if you drive on the street at WOT 50% of the time, you're dangerous and and idiot. So maybe in real life it's like 20-30% of the time, which is probably still conservative. That still means that if you are running catless, you are still polluting 100% of the time instead of the 20 or 30% you spend at WOT with a vehicle with a catalytic, so where is the logic in this? Seriously, I'm only looking at this from a logical point that non of you can effectively argue against without spewing insults at my intelligence or choice of vehicle I drive.

daniel
11-10-2006, 02:00 PM
I and generally most evo owners don't care too much about the environment enough to argue with you about it. It's a moot point. I don't feel the need to enterain your ideas and neither does anyone else at this point especially since you drive an Evo. You don't make sense.

x[corwyn]
11-10-2006, 02:09 PM
Neil you have no reply? I HAVE given you a logical thought out answer. Your reply is childish at best. Our emissions laws dont work because they target the wrong groups. not only that our attempts to do so to cover up the basic fact that we drive vehicles that are oil based are silly at best. Ignore the facts as best as you can and whine about how we are "harming" the environment. The reality is, with that type of logic a performace car is not going to be as green as a little festiva, and I guarantee you the difference is far greater between your driving an evo and a festiva than my driving without a cat. The reality of these "green" laws is to make the huggy feely groups feel better about themselves, and the cold hard reality that is, we drive oil buring automobiles.

The reality is you drive a polluting vehicle. So you start driving around a little 3 cylinder car, or go really green and start walking or pedaling around Mr. OMGURKILLINGTHETREES and I will put my real cat back on. I just dont see you having a leg to stand on, and basically being a whiney hypocrite.

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 02:12 PM
I and generally most evo owners don't care too much about the environment enough to argue with you about it. It's a moot point. I don't feel the need the enterain your ideas and neither does anyone else at this point especially since you drive an Evo. You don't make sense.


Daniel - You can care about the environment and still love high-performance vehicles, as I do. I just won't go out of my way as the original poster did to make my car pollute worse and let me say it again, for NO logical reason. The debate was openned up on this subject when he posted his choice on this thread. If at least one person looks at the subject differently, then great. If not, that's their choice, just dont cry on a thread when you get caught and fined for running catless, like so many have. It's a stupid choice that WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE WITH! Like I said, don't read me wrong, I love high-performance vehicles and drive them every day for a living, but I choose to live within the legal pollution laws.

Mike W
11-10-2006, 02:25 PM
Anyone that truly cared about the enviornment would not make a hobby and living based on burning and encouraging the burning of fossil fuels. And for the people that really cared yet worked out the justification in their mind to responsibly burn gas, a heavy unaerodynamic turbocharged car would be pretty low on the list dontcha think?

In 1996 you could have had $20k worth of Eclipse that made 400 hp. The Golden Age of cars started the day God created DSMs :-)

And how much particulate comes out the tail pipe idling catless for one hour vs a full throttle pull to 100 with a cat? Someone else gonna have to calculate that for me, I suck at math. I know the injectors operate at like .3ms @ 35 psi vs 18ms @ 63 psi.

I still say crocodile tears, you are more problem than solution in the enviornment. Get back to me when you are with out sin.

Mike W

daniel
11-10-2006, 02:28 PM
I and generally most evo owners don't care too much about the environment enough to argue with you about it. It's a moot point. I don't feel the need the enterain your ideas and neither does anyone else at this point especially since you drive an Evo. You don't make sense.


Daniel - You can care about the environment and still love high-performance vehicles, as I do. I just won't go out of my way as the original poster did to make my car pollute worse and let me say it again, for NO logical reason. The debate was openned up on this subject when he posted his choice on this thread. If at least one person looks at the subject differently, then great. If not, that's their choice, just dont cry on a thread when you get caught and fined for running catless, like so many have. It's a stupid choice that WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE WITH! Like I said, don't read me wrong, I love high-performance vehicles and drive them every day for a living, but I choose to live within the legal pollution laws.


Neil you're missing the big picture. I don't care that much about the environment and you're not going to convince me to. There's more important things to deal with in life.

EVO Neil
11-10-2006, 02:30 PM
]
Neil you have no reply? I HAVE given you a logical thought out answer. Your reply is childish at best. Our emissions laws dont work because they target the wrong groups. not only that our attempts to do so to cover up the basic fact that we drive vehicles that are oil based are silly at best. Ignore the facts as best as you can and whine about how we are "harming" the environment. The reality is, with that type of logic a performace car is not going to be as green as a little festiva, and I guarantee you the difference is far greater between your driving an evo and a festiva than my driving without a cat. The reality of these "green" laws is to make the huggy feely groups feel better about themselves, and the cold hard reality that is, we drive oil buring automobiles.

The reality is you drive a polluting vehicle. So you start driving around a little 3 cylinder car, or go really green and start walking or pedaling around Mr. OMGURKILLINGTHETREES and I will put my real cat back on. I just dont see you having a leg to stand on, and basically being a whiney hypocrite.


Mike your reply to me was that "it was stupid" regarding pollution and you're calling my reply quoting you childish? I'll give you that there are other polluters on the planet other than automobiles, but did you know that 10% of the worlds pollution comes from California? Yes, we should go after other gross polluters like the diesel trucks and the factories and we finally are. My point was that YOU made a choice, a choice to make your emissions compliant vehicle pollute more. You openned up the subject for debate when you started this thread. I have argued effectively that making a choice to pollute further is illogical and your reply is that everyone else does it, so that makes it right. Â*I'm sorry but that is not an effective arguement. You are making it sound like loving high performance vehicles and not wanting to pollute further are mutally exclusive and they are not. I just have choosen not to pollute 100% of the time, unlike you. Look, you have made your choice and it IS your choice. You enjoy your Evo as will I, we will just argee to not argee.

daniel
11-10-2006, 02:32 PM
....you have made your choice and it IS your choice. You enjoy your Evo as will I, we will just argee to not argee.


So shut up already.

philthyevo
11-10-2006, 07:25 PM
People that cry crocodile tears about the enviornment dont drive EVOs.

Mike W



Thats right, they drive Priuses

Mike W
11-10-2006, 07:29 PM
And what about the AEM EMSs and 1000cc injectors and 280 cams that we sell? Unbelievable too? I swear to God that if you give me the list of enviornmentally friendly EVO mods I'll put it up on this forum and my web site and promote it. Think of the difference it will make if you sway one person. I am dead serious.

Tell me about your list of too many cars that you own please.

I will kill this thread after the weekend so have fun with it for now.

Mike W

Ricardon
11-10-2006, 07:33 PM
I'm going to drop the stock cat as soon as I can. Â*I'm going to go with a test pipe when I install my downpipe. Â*The state that my car is registered in does not have hyper strict emissions laws like CA does.

That being said, every one of you is completely missing the point of Neil's counter argument. Â*Honestly, agree with Neil's position or not (I don't care as much about whether I pollute or not), the arguments against his position are frigteningly weak. Â*"Your'e stupid", "Shut up" and all these types of comebacks really make my chubby limp. Â*Welcome to Sololevo.net!!

chuckdashi
11-10-2006, 07:40 PM
i think neil is just trying to say that he's not trying to force you to run your cats... and if you do choose to run a testpipe/ rally cat your are part of the statistic that contribute to the pollution of the planet... will everyone start putting their cat on?... no... will it make some people think twice before going with a test pipe?... i think thats what neil is hoping for... daniel you say you dont care about the environment... is say... thats nice... imnot trying to join the arguement just trying to say what i think neil is saying....

we drive 30k vehicles here lets try to be mature about about our posts...

philthyevo
11-10-2006, 07:57 PM
10% sounds very high. Â*Where did you get this information? Â*Did you make it up? Â*Show us.


Stop ragging on RRE, its not like they're the only place that has a rally cat, do you know how many companies and websites sell test pipes or rally cats? Â*Give them a break.


FYI, California is the epicenter of the Environmentalist movement, many companies are relocating to other states that don't have such stringent policies, laws and regulations against factory emissions. Â*So somehow 10% sounds like way too much. Â*Maybe 3-4% at best. Â*Don't forget about the growing use of fossil fuels in China, India and Russia--which if you look at a map, you'll see that they're pretty large countries with LARGE populations and they dont have any envionmentalist movement or ANY kind.

DJ_STEPH
11-10-2006, 08:09 PM
+1 on what chuckdashi said.
maybe some people will think twice after reading neil's posts,
im running testpipe right now, but after reading his post
im thinkin about putting my stock cat back on or HFC lol

chuckdashi
11-10-2006, 08:16 PM
10% sounds very high. Where did you get this information? Did you make it up? Show us.


Stop ragging on RRE, its not like they're the only place that has a rally cat, do you know how many companies and websites sell test pipes or rally cats? Give them a break.


FYI, California is the epicenter of the Environmentalist movement, many companies are relocating to other states that don't have such stringent policies, laws and regulations against factory emissions. So somehow 10% sounds like way too much. Maybe 3-4% at best. Don't forget about the growing use of fossil fuels in China, India and Russia--which if you look at a map, you'll see that they're pretty large countries with LARGE populations and they dont have any envionmentalist movement or ANY kind.
again its just numbers.. what neil is trying to do is to just try to make people think twice and hope that they keep their stock cat... ever heard the phrase it all starts with 1?... thats what neil is he is starting it hoping the numbers get bigger and the word gets out there... you dont have to agree with him... and im sure that goes for everyone... he is just trying to show a point.. again just hoping to get people to think twice before purchasing one... just my .02

philthyevo
11-10-2006, 08:37 PM
Yeah I know Neil has a dream and thats great, but at least don't make up things like "California is 10% of global emissions" because thats far from the truth. I understand his point that we need to do our part in reducing our own pollution and spread word.

I wouldnt worry too much Neil. Its ok, I don't think all EVO owners have Test Pipes or rally cats anyway--some people dont want it to smell, or get smokey, or get a really pricey ticket.

Actually, I still have my stock cat on, just bought a HFC and now I'm thinking about getting a rally cat/test pipe instead of that HFC...but Im not sure what to do. If I replace my stock cat with a straight pipe, Im gaining what, 10hp--at best, right? Will I even feel a difference with a HFC instead of a stock cat?

Mike W
11-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Nothing about an EVO is ethical or legal even stock.

People cry about "those polluters" but drive heavy overpowered bricks. People cry about "those street racers" but build a car with 400 hp for their daily drivers. People cry about "those ricers" but drive a car with the most gingerbread goodies hung on from the factory evar. Everything is someone else's fault. I am not making judgements either, just pointing and chuckling at the hypocrisy.

Mike W

x[corwyn]
11-10-2006, 10:00 PM
Seeing how many hypocitical bleeding heart liberal tree hugging environmental drivers that have Evos, I have decided to announce my complete and total transformation to the darkside. I am now ready to toss my oil down the sewer drain, suck down the greasiest food I can find, find any R12 AC refrigerant I can find, and release it directly into the sky, find ANY CFC filled aerosol sprays, and then at the soonest possibility I will arrange a trip to go clubbing some baby seals. I now hearby encourage any and all of you to join up with us horrible evil wild men, in defiance of you pretty precious environmentally aware personages.

Just dont forget to remove the sand when you pull the tampons out.

Macky
11-11-2006, 09:07 AM
i have an idea. rat on every person driving without a cat. dont dare me. ill do it.



lets see who has the balls to keep driving around without one.


i could give a rats ass about the numbnuts opinions of the people justifying no-cats. its the name-calling, insults and lack of actual logical explanation that really makes this discussion stink.


/rant

x[corwyn]
11-11-2006, 10:27 AM
Ok. I talked to someone else that put it into perspective for me last night about this debate, and so I explained myself thus (And I thought a lot of what it was fairly self-explanatory and needed no saying but...)

1.) This is a review of a Vendor's product. I think when someone is going to buy this, they have a fairly damn good idea of what this is, and hopping on this thread and debating the topic would have been better suited on the political forum than starting something that seems like a bash. THAT tweaked me a bit.

2.) Anyone that buys one of these KNOWS what they are buying it for, and knows what laws they are violating. If not, then guess what? Its illegal. However I am of the mind that just because its legal or illegal doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It just means enough people hit the crack pipe that day.

3.) I personally have a lot of issues with the smog laws and the crap gas we get here. I CHOOSE to run my car that I bought as I want. I think at some point before we got too PC and too huggy feely and create laws to make us feel better about ourselves that really don't do any good, and in fact create issues, we used to believe in the ability to enjoy our possessions, and to in fact own our products in the manner we choose, provided we do not harm others. In some cases these huggy feely laws CREATE all new environmental issues. Look at MTBEs.

4.) If people feel THAT strongly about the environment, instead of whining about it, do something constructive. I dont call creating laws that harm more than do good constructive. I'm sorry I dont. Help create new technologies. Set an example. People that drive cars that pollute quite a bit dont seem to have the courage of their convictions.

5.) Now I am all in favor of Inspections for proper safety of cars, like making sure all lights work, wipers, tires arent bald, etc etc. IMHO THAT is far more serious and scary than adding devices that pretty much kill the performance and gas mileage of our vehicles.

6.) In this day and age of us trying to figure out how to get more gas mileage out of our vehicles, no one suggests getting rid of smog devices. Its like things like child support, or alimony, or gun laws. Even though those laws dont work, harm more than help, you are an evil bad person for even THINKING that there might be a better way. Well count me as evil because *I* think there are better ways, and half assed laws dont do it.

earlyapex
11-11-2006, 10:59 AM
Good lord at this thread. Did you all move up to the Bay Area while I wasn't looking?

How come a person working at a large auto magazine that test groups of cars on tracks every other month is complaining about pollution in this thread?

Why don't you go around to everyone running 720cc injectors and a SAFC and punch Dr. Gray in the mouth because their car spits raw fuel out their tailpipe at idle?

blkside
11-11-2006, 11:05 AM
Exactly. If those that whine about it...why dont you offset our illegal activities and buy a PRIUS. I plan on running a HFC but thats only cause I have kids and the smell but my TP for now is on the way. If you honestly believe that a catless car is doing as much harm as 18 wheelers or old ass domestics... there are hundreds of thousands of cars that are causing more problems... Think about this... just cause california is all fucking huggy feely doesnt mean everyone is. My roomates GTO is STRAIGHT PIPE and its way worse than a catless EVO.... GET OVER IT... Wanna conspiracy theory... Davinci code is on DVD.

chuckdashi
11-11-2006, 02:41 PM
lol da vinci code....









...

EVO Neil
11-11-2006, 07:20 PM
Okay split topic and moved the political here. Ready for more personal attacks about my character, what I do for a living, where I work and the vehicles I drive since that's all you most of you seem to be able to come up with. Such great logic.

chuckdashi
11-11-2006, 07:25 PM
Okay split topic and moved the political here. Ready for more personal attacks about my character, what I do for a living, where I work and the vehicles I drive since that's all you most of you seem to be able to come up with. Such great logic.
me???





...

blkside
11-11-2006, 07:32 PM
Heres logic for you EVO Neil. If every one is so worried aboiut the environment ... why do pre 70's vehicle not have to be modded. 18 wheelers pollute more than my car. Why arent they retrofitted. I am not promoting TP's but I dont try to force my opinion on anyone especially when your point holds no value.. How long has the Ozone been depleting... we have what 30 years of research on an atmosphere thats been there a couple weeks longer... how do you know the atmosphere doesnt cycle every few thousand years. Oh you dont... You woulnt own a suburban or maybe a family member.... i hope not or Tgiving is gonna be a long converation....

Ricardon
11-11-2006, 09:58 PM
Mmmmmmm!!!! Arbies roast beef sandwiches for dinner! Roast beef gives me a stiffy!

chuckdashi
11-11-2006, 10:27 PM
Mmmmmmm!!!! Arbies roast beef sandwiches for dinner! Roast beef gives me a stiffy!


lol









...

philthyevo
11-11-2006, 11:30 PM
I love how this thread has evolved into a discussion on Arbys or some guys rant. The topic is Cat or no Cat.

I'll try to revive the topic:

For those who use a HFC or just know anything about them, how does it compare to the stock cat? Will I notice a difference at all, or is it useless? The HFC is Ultimate Racing.

Granny Shifter
11-11-2006, 11:45 PM
Hmmm, you are definitely preaching to the wrong choir, lol. As for logic; I go by this simple form of deductive reasoning.
a. phatman2600 likes parts that make his car faster.
b. a test pipe is a part that makes his car go faster.
a+b= phatman2600 likes his test pipe cause it makes his car go faster.

blkside
11-11-2006, 11:48 PM
Now thats fucking logic... I agree 100% and furthermore..no one wants the Ecopinion... I am waiting on my test pipe...lol

x[corwyn]
11-11-2006, 11:58 PM
I love how this thread has evolved into a discussion on Arbys or some guys rant. The topic is Cat or no Cat.

I'll try to revive the topic:

For those who use a HFC or just know anything about them, how does it compare to the stock cat? Will I notice a difference at all, or is it useless? The HFC is Ultimate Racing.


From my discussions with Eric at XS the HFC gets you 9 more HP. The test pipe gets you about 11HP. The reason why I got a Rally Cay instead of the HFC I really wanted was because this thing is stealth. It passed a cop intense inspection the other day. I wanted a good stealth HFC and couldnt find one.

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 12:04 AM
So its test pipe or stock cat? Â*No one uses a HFC or can comment on one? Â*Lol. Â*SIGHS

have a great night guppies

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 12:08 AM
Wait so a HFC is just as illegal as a test pipe / rally cat?Â* Is the HF...Cat still a cat? :police:

blkside
11-12-2006, 12:12 AM
You arent supposed to change the cat unless its damaged or fails tests... blah blah blah... test pipes are illegal because they have no catalyst material at all...

GokuSSJ4
11-12-2006, 12:19 AM
not this subject again.. an at the end nothing is accomplished... LOL Evo Neil has a very strong believe on running a cat on a vehicle.. other will have there different opinions about running a HFC or even a TP .. since we are in a car forum.. people for the most part will continue to modify there car as they pleased...

Granny Shifter
11-12-2006, 12:22 AM
not this subject again.. an at the end nothing is accomplished... LOL Evo Neil has a very strong believe on running a cat on a vehicle.. other will have there different opinions about running a HFC or even a TP .. since we are in a car forum.. people for the most part will continue to modify there car as they pleased...

good summary, but you know it won't stop.

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 12:52 AM
not this subject again.. an at the end nothing is accomplished... LOL Evo Neil has a very strong believe on running a cat on a vehicle.. other will have there different opinions about running a HFC or even a TP .. since we are in a car forum.. people for the most part will continue to modify there car as they pleased...


Thats a lame summary.Â* "Not this subject again"Â* ??Â* Â*Look at the name of this thread.

Only one person said 9Hp for HFC and 11Hp for TP (on average) and thank you for that. I'll accept the lack of argument as compliance or just ignorance perhaps.

I would expect a summary like this:

I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:

x[corwyn]
11-12-2006, 02:10 AM
not this subject again.. an at the end nothing is accomplished... LOL Evo Neil has a very strong believe on running a cat on a vehicle.. other will have there different opinions about running a HFC or even a TP .. since we are in a car forum.. people for the most part will continue to modify there car as they pleased...


Thats a lame summary. "Not this subject again" ?? Look at the name of this thread.

Only one person said 9Hp for HFC and 11Hp for TP (on average) and thank you for that. I'll accept the lack of argument as compliance or just ignorance perhaps.

I would expect a summary like this:

I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:


I forgot to mention this HP rating was given for my particular mods, which is my bad. I have an intake, a 3" diameter downpipe, 3" diameter catback exhaust, and a PowerFC. With those mods in mind that is the particular gain. The cats I think had something like a 2"-2 1/2" diameter which is also a reason for the constraint.

Also I have noticed a gain in mileage. Plus the car ran smoother, and at a low RPM and a tall gearing would go up in power smoother and without hesitation.

High Flow Cats are just as illegal as a test pipe. Personally I find that HFC being lumped with a test pipe is lame, and shows how shortsighted the law is. The cats utilize platinum which is not a cheap metal, and also will probably be skimped on by OEMs, and I have seen HFCs that flowed better, but still were just as clean as the stock cats.

Another thing that is never mentioned is that Catalytic convertors actually have their problems. They are PROVEN to force more consumption of fossil fuels. Catalytic convertors convert CO2 which last time wasnt really a bad substance, and actually can be necessary for plants to convert to 02. What they do is make CO2 become nitrous oxide. So we trade carbon dioxide in for a gas that creates global warming. Last time I checked global warming was another hot environmental topic that also is a serious issue. But I guess cars creating those gases isnt that big of an issue....Which makes me wonder if that isnt a factor then I guess the CO2 gas created isnt that big of a deal either.

So basically when I summarize that I believe the existing laws, and OEM setups arent quite as useful as people will have you think, I am not completely talking out my butt. I worked for a little while also at a design firm that designed sewage and water treatment plants. One of the biggest issues right now for california is trying to treat MTBEs that are released into our water systems because of the crap gas we get. Here is some nice info on what it is, and why I NEVER drink tap water. http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/water.htm .

The same groups that got us this wonderful gas, and screwed our water up are the same ones that brought us the laws that govern our smog compliance laws. To say I'm far from impressed, and at the least appalled by their short sightedness to make some people feel good and go back to their granola is an understatement.

Now that I have written a pretty fair synopsis on this, I am curious beyond what anyone has to say past "Its the law" or "OMG you are anti-environment". I also dont really believe I am bashing on anyone on this one neither, so no one get their panties in a bunch. I would REALLY like to see a REAL explanation on why any person that REALLY knows what these items do, is in favor of them, beyond the blanket "its for the environment" or "its the law".

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 02:46 AM
Ok so if Cats are proven to use more gas, how do the tree-huggers argue that its worse for the environment and why do cops ticketÂ* you for replacing your cat with a straight pipe?Â* The cats must do a little more than restrict flow.Â* Obviously they apparently make the exhuast released from your vehicles a little cleaner...

ButÂ* I have heard that test pipe increase MPG.Â* There needs to be an investigation.

Did you guys vote on prop4g63?Â* It was suppose to grant EVO owners in Los Angeles the right to replace their cats with a straight pipe.Â* Apparently it didn't pass cause very few showed up to vote. I guess they were all stoned :band: or maybe they were just not old enough. :D

boostin05evo
11-12-2006, 04:06 AM
i have an idea. rat on every person driving without a cat. dont dare me. ill do it.



lets see who has the balls to keep driving around without one.


i could give a rats ass about the numbnuts opinions of the people justifying no-cats. its the name-calling, insults and lack of actual logical explanation that really makes this discussion stink.


/rant

I dare YOU!!!!

x[corwyn]
11-12-2006, 04:21 AM
Ok so if Cats are proven to use more gas, how do the tree-huggers argue that its worse for the environment and why do cops ticket you for replacing your cat with a straight pipe? The cats must do a little more than restrict flow. Obviously they apparently make the exhuast released from your vehicles a little cleaner...

But I have heard that test pipe increase MPG. There needs to be an investigation.

Did you guys vote on prop4g63? It was suppose to grant EVO owners in Los Angeles the right to replace their cats with a straight pipe. Apparently it didn't pass cause very few showed up to vote. I guess they were all stoned :band: or maybe they were just not old enough. :D


I know that emissions requires cars to run richer than they should or could be and part of it is for the catalytic converter. Why? I sure would like to know as well. I'm enjoying 30-40 miles to the tank more without one, and I'm sure if the car was tuned after the loss of the cat I can probably get more.

One of the main catalysts is Platinum, which I am unsure of how lead interferes or hurts it, but that is why leaded gas is now gone. Leaded gas wrecked wrecks catalytic converters, otherwise we would still be using leaded gas. Its not because emissions that leaded gas is gone (well I guess since it kills a cat it is, but otherwise no) and we lost the benefits of lead in our engines. It helped prolong the life and lubricate various parts such as valves in the head.

The C02 emissions is "cleaned" and converted to NO2. So you get one substance that stays close to the earth and trade it for one that floats up higher. Kinda like the guy that takes the leaf blower to his yard and blows the leaves into the neighbors yard. The leaves had to go somewhere. And you get a penalty for that process.

I guess in the 1970s the concern was for CO2s and so politicians wanted to say they had done something to fix the issue. Now we have "Greenhouse gases". I guess that means they will slap something else on our exhausts sometime in the future to clean that and convert it to something else that will down the line be considered harmful. I would laugh if at the end of it all the end result is CO2 coming out the exhaust...

Mokaone
11-12-2006, 09:01 AM
its cool that u care about the environment, but honestly... if i put my cat on or not, its not gonna make a difference. the only way that you will prevent people from removing their cats, is if u find a less expensive way to get the same performance gain and benefits from running catless. sure, u might be able to convince a few people here and there.. but it'll never be enough to convince enough people to actually make a noticeable difference.

just my 2cents

EVO Neil
11-12-2006, 10:29 AM
]


I love how this thread has evolved into a discussion on Arbys or some guys rant. The topic is Cat or no Cat.

I'll try to revive the topic:

For those who use a HFC or just know anything about them, how does it compare to the stock cat? Will I notice a difference at all, or is it useless? The HFC is Ultimate Racing.


From my discussions with Eric at XS the HFC gets you 9 more HP. The test pipe gets you about 11HP. The reason why I got a Rally Cay instead of the HFC I really wanted was because this thing is stealth. It passed a cop intense inspection the other day. I wanted a good stealth HFC and couldnt find one.


WORKS has one.

EVO Neil
11-12-2006, 10:36 AM
I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:


Nice, again with the personal insults. So you folks are saying that a) you'll actually notice the 10 hp difference betwen cat or no cat on your street car and b) you absolutely have to have that extra 10 hp for street use because some day you'll need it and lastly c) that you can somehow justify in your mind that you are not doing anything wrong because you feel the law is stupid and useless. Remind me not to ask you how you feel about murder or any other law you may deem unworthy of your sensibilities.

Macky
11-12-2006, 10:37 AM
Mmmmmmm!!!! Arbies roast beef sandwiches for dinner! Roast beef gives me a stiffy!




So roast beef gives Stifler a stiffy?

Macky
11-12-2006, 10:38 AM
i have an idea. rat on every person driving without a cat. dont dare me. ill do it.



lets see who has the balls to keep driving around without one.


i could give a rats ass about the numbnuts opinions of the people justifying no-cats. its the name-calling, insults and lack of actual logical explanation that really makes this discussion stink.


/rant

I dare YOU!!!!


fine. thats one ticket signed, any more volunteers?

GokuSSJ4
11-12-2006, 11:29 AM
not this subject again.. an at the end nothing is accomplished... LOL Evo Neil has a very strong believe on running a cat on a vehicle.. other will have there different opinions about running a HFC or even a TP .. since we are in a car forum.. people for the most part will continue to modify there car as they pleased...


Thats a lame summary. "Not this subject again" ?? Look at the name of this thread.

Only one person said 9Hp for HFC and 11Hp for TP (on average) and thank you for that. I'll accept the lack of argument as compliance or just ignorance perhaps.

I would expect a summary like this:

I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:
who's trying to summarized anything ? this subject has been discuss before with Evo NEil and guess what ? nothing was accomplished... you will have your point of view on why you want to do what ever you want to your car.. an others will have there argument about it!
Guess what! at the end it doesn't really matter.. people who want to use a HFC or TP will continue to do so, regardless what everyone has to say about it... others will get pissed and argue about it.. but it does not change a damn thing!!!

Granny Shifter
11-12-2006, 01:03 PM
I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:


Nice, again with the personal insults. So you folks are saying that a) you'll actually notice the 10 hp difference betwen cat or no cat on your street car and b) you absolutely have to have that extra 10 hp for street use because some day you'll need it and lastly c) that you can somehow justify in your mind that you are not doing anything wrong because you feel the law is stupid and useless. Remind me not to ask you how you feel about murder or any other law you may deem unworthy of your sensibilities.

If it will give me 10 hp, then I will slap it on. I don't care about the environment as hardcore as you do. Why don't you go collect plastic cans or something. Gosh. Do you really think anyone on these boards cares what you are saying? People here are power hungry. We don't need justification to do it. Modding is illegal, but we still do it.

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 01:07 PM
who's trying to summarized anything ? this subject has been discuss before with Evo NEil and guess what ? nothing was accomplished... you will have your point of view on why you want to do what ever you want to your car.. an others will have there argument about it!
Guess what! at the end it doesn't really matter.. people who want to use a HFC or TP will continue to do so, regardless what everyone has to say about it... others will get pissed and argue about it.. but it does not change a damn thing!!!



:2funny: Â*Past-tense verbage issues?

I thought this was obvious but apparently not for everyone. Â* :crazy2: Â*The discussion with Evo Neil wasn't a discussion. Â*It was him ranting about how Evo drivers in California contribute 10% of global emissions which is hilariously over-exagerated. Â* :uglystupid2: Â*He beleives that people should keep their cat on for the sake of the environment--and I totally understand that point of view--but it doesn't address this topic at all!! Â*

This thread isn't a moral or ethical issue, which belongs in the tree-hugger thread for the peace-loving, candy-flipping hippies. Â*(You guys shouldn't target EVOs and people who run Test Pipes, you should target the surplus of huge gas-guzzling-SUVs, factory and refinary emissions and hell, even the farting cows all over California, the US, and the rest of the world.) Â*

Again, I suggest you look at the title of the thread. Â*This is about running a stock cat or a test pipe and what gains you can expect by replacing the stock cat and whether its worth it or not. Â*I basically already got my answer, but seriously, do some of you get really stoned before posting? Â*Its like me asking which Turbo Kit to get and why and someone answering me with a Â*"it doesn't matter, people will do what they want to do" Sorry but thats pretty useless.

Mike W
11-12-2006, 01:59 PM
Philthy - Your HFCmay make more flow or less flow. I see a lot of High Flow Cats that have cores smaller than stock. Bring it by the shop and we'll look at it.

Niel - Still waiting for the list of too many cars that you own and also waiting for the list of EVO Green Mods for my EVONiel Green Upgrade Path. Seriously.

Mike W

x[corwyn]
11-12-2006, 02:00 PM
About a page of replies and nothing said in rebuttal to the statement of the facts and realities of what a catalytic converter really does? I guess it was too long for anyone to read. My bad.

blkside
11-12-2006, 02:07 PM
no we just figured after all that we shouldnt think for a while... whats up bro... either way the fact of the matter is I get what I want...

Mokaone
11-12-2006, 02:38 PM
I guess a HFC and a Test pipe are pretty close-both are illegal and both give you a rough 10Hp gain and both are gauranteed make tree hugging Prius owners shit a brick on socalevo.net :buck2:


Nice, again with the personal insults. So you folks are saying that a) you'll actually notice the 10 hp difference betwen cat or no cat on your street car and b) you absolutely have to have that extra 10 hp for street use because some day you'll need it and lastly c) that you can somehow justify in your mind that you are not doing anything wrong because you feel the law is stupid and useless. Remind me not to ask you how you feel about murder or any other law you may deem unworthy of your sensibilities.

page moves kinda fast...

a. who knows, someone answer this for me
b. assuming u do get a 10hp gain... since most people can careless about the environment, they rather get that extra 10hp. im sure not everyone feels like they need those extra 10hp. but if you can spend 100+ bucks on a testpipe, and those extra 10hp are worth to you that much.. the last thing ur gonna think about is the environment.
c. i wouldnt sai that people dont think its wrong, they can just not really care enough to do something about it. some people put their car as a higher priority than saving the environment.

wat i dont understand is why people rant about this. cuz the only thing i keep hearing about you is, u compare exotic cars to the evo, and how they can stay within state regulations and still get alot of power. well, who's to sai wat is to much and wat isnt enough. for instance, wat another state may think is a "clean", may not be concidered "clean" in the state of CA. wat i think is concidered as doing "harm" to the environment, may not be the same as your definition. lets sai, everyone on the forum was to run their cars just like you wanted. everyone put a cat, and felt the same way about the situation as you... it would be just a matter of time before someone else came along and said something like "our cars cause to much pollution, lets get hybrids" and then youd be in our shoes.. triying to defend yourself for not wanting to trade in ur evo for a prius. to each his own...

EVO Neil
11-12-2006, 02:41 PM
who's trying to summarized anything ? this subject has been discuss before with Evo NEil and guess : Â*The discussion with Evo Neil wasn't a discussion. Â*It was him ranting about how Evo drivers in California contribute 10% of global emissions which is hilariously over-exagerated. Â* :uglystupid2: Â*He beleives that people should keep their cat on for the sake of the environment--and I totally understand that point of view--but it doesn't address this topic at all!! Â*



Nice job changing my words around. I never said anyhting about Evo drivers being responsible for 10% of the worlds pollution. Try re-reading it again and maybe you'll get it the second time, but I doubt it. Just like everything else in this thread, you're changed the words and meaning to suit your needs. Must be time for more personal attacks.

My point was simple:
A) Replacing the catalytic converter is not worth the 10 horsepower you'll see on a street car.
B) It's not worth polluting 100% of the time for the little benefit you'll get even if you track your car on occasion.
C) I never even touched on the hefty fine for removing it.
D) The "everyone else does it, so why shouldn't I" thought process is illogical.

What I never said was:
A) That I am perfect and without sin, as Mike has said.
B) Tha I have or even want to drive a Prius.
C) That I don't love performance vehicles, because I do.
D) That I am a tree-hugging liberal because of the simple belief that it's stupid to run catless. Â*

I am so glad you folks are so adult in your debates.

I'm done. Like Goku said, it's not like my opinion will have any effect. It'll just result in more insulting conversations.

x[corwyn]
11-12-2006, 02:56 PM
Nice job changing my words around. I never said anyhting about Evo drivers being responsible for 10% of the worlds pollution. Try re-reading it again and maybe you'll get it the second time, but I doubt it. Just like everything else in this thread, you're changed the words and meaning to suit your needs. Must be time for more personal attacks.

My point was simple:
A) Replacing the catalytic converter is not worth the 10 horsepower you'll see on a street car.
B) It's not worth polluting 100% of the time for the little benefit you'll get even if you track your car on occasion.
C) I never even touched on the hefty fine for removing it.
D) The "everyone else does it, so why shouldn't I" thought process is illogical.

What I never said was:
A) That I am perfect and without sin, as Mike has said.
B) Tha I have or even want to drive a Prius.
C) That I don't love performance vehicles, because I do.
D) That I am a tree-hugging liberal because of the simple belief that you shouldn't run catless.

I am so glad you folks are so adult in your debates.

I'm done. Like Goku said, it's not like my opinion will have any effect. It'll just result in more insulting conversations.


No replies to anything I said?! WTF... I WINZ0RZ!!!! YAY I WINZ THE INTARDNET!

BTW if you run any of your cars at less than 14.7PPO (parts per oxygen) to 1 part fuel and running leaner then you are not utilizing the cat to its intended setup. THATS why we have such stringent and crappy inspections on our cars for smog to insure that they run pretty rich. THATS why we waste tons of fuel. Great setup, huh?

So in your eyes ANY modifications then is bad, because if you do modify then the cat is not being utilized. If thats your stance I have no idea why you are on this board, because you are gonna be pretty irritated with a lot of people.

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 03:33 PM
Philthy - Your HFCmay make more flow or less flow. I see a lot of High Flow Cats that have cores smaller than stock. Bring it by the shop and we'll look at it.

Niel - Still waiting for the list of too many cars that you own and also waiting for the list of EVO Green Mods for my EVONiel Green Upgrade Path. Seriously.

Mike W




The Green path to an EVO is to not buy an EVO.

But you could replace the Mivec with the Toyota Prius hybrid engine/generator. Â*The exhuast system could have 2 catylic converters, with a 1.5" diameter. Â*Also, I think it's important for the car to run on electricity and apple juice.

You know you'll want one Niel Â*O0

PS Mike be sure to let me know when the Prius Stage 1+ comes out ok?



"I'll give you that there are other polluters on the planet other than automobiles, but did you know that 10% of the worlds pollution comes from California?" Â*-EvoNiel

Yes I read that, and its ridiculously false. Take a look at Texas and their environmental record. Texas is a lot more irresponsible for their emissions controls. And furthermore Susan, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that they habitually smoke marjiuana cigarettes....reefers!

x[corwyn]
11-12-2006, 03:42 PM
"I'll give you that there are other polluters on the planet other than automobiles, but did you know that 10% of the worlds pollution comes from California?" -EvoNiel

Yes I read that, and its ridiculously false.


I might believe 10% of total world pollution, just because of how densely populated this area is, and all the manufacturing etc etc. I'll even grant that cars definitely have a factor it. I have a feeling though its a bit high, just thinking of some large countries though that have no restrictions at all on any of their businesses. However my point all along is that we drive oil burning cars. They all pollute. Catalytic converters dont magically clean the environment. They create a process that converts it into another just as harmful substance. Give and take. One is in your face the other causes issues but not so in your face.

The fact remains if you want to not hurt the environment, and I sincerely believe the catayltic converter is not a good device, dont drive a gas or heaven forbid, a diesel automobile.

Lets face it. Car enthusiasts can NOT be anti-smog environmentalists. They are mutually exclusive.

philthyevo
11-12-2006, 03:51 PM
10% is high.Â* It's more like 4% at best.Â* The US is the 7th largest contributor to global pollution.Â* Take a look, and apply some math.

http://www.aneki.com/polluted.html


and


http://www.e2.org/ext/doc/AB32GHGReductionsV3.pdf;jsessionid=998C4F84992E562 DB65B56E873267476

GokuSSJ4
11-12-2006, 05:54 PM
who's trying to summarized anything ? this subject has been discuss before with Evo NEil and guess what ? nothing was accomplished... you will have your point of view on why you want to do what ever you want to your car.. an others will have there argument about it!
Guess what! at the end it doesn't really matter.. people who want to use a HFC or TP will continue to do so, regardless what everyone has to say about it... others will get pissed and argue about it.. but it does not change a damn thing!!!



:2funny: Past-tense verbage issues?

I thought this was obvious but apparently not for everyone. :crazy2: The discussion with Evo Neil wasn't a discussion. It was him ranting about how Evo drivers in California contribute 10% of global emissions which is hilariously over-exagerated. :uglystupid2: He beleives that people should keep their cat on for the sake of the environment--and I totally understand that point of view--but it doesn't address this topic at all!!

This thread isn't a moral or ethical issue, which belongs in the tree-hugger thread for the peace-loving, candy-flipping hippies. (You guys shouldn't target EVOs and people who run Test Pipes, you should target the surplus of huge gas-guzzling-SUVs, factory and refinary emissions and hell, even the farting cows all over California, the US, and the rest of the world.)

Again, I suggest you look at the title of the thread. This is about running a stock cat or a test pipe and what gains you can expect by replacing the stock cat and whether its worth it or not. I basically already got my answer, but seriously, do some of you get really stoned before posting? Its like me asking which Turbo Kit to get and why and someone answering me with a "it doesn't matter, people will do what they want to do" Sorry but thats pretty useless.

you are too funny sometimes ... i can careless about some ones point of view (whether is Neil or yours) if its a bad idea or if things are legal when using a TP or not..
my point is that this has been discuss before.. The reason why he split the thread and it was moved into the political section (because this started with Neil having a strong point of view about running catless) not to see what gains would be achieved with a TP or a HFC .. an if thats the case and you are so interested in finding gains, do a search things have been discuss before... If you notice Neil isnt arguing about gains.. he is arguing about having a TP or not... which the title doesnt indicated (once again, the main reason why this topic was split and placed under the political section)
also i believe even x[corwyn] has giving you the answer... if this is the information that you were seeking for..

daniel
11-13-2006, 12:17 AM
http://www.argaste.com/img/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg

Miss Evo8
11-13-2006, 08:22 AM
http://www.argaste.com/img/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg


:2funny:

Mike W
11-13-2006, 09:46 AM
I need someone smarter than me to find where all my personal insults to N-E-I-L are. And there must be a lot of them 'cause he says I am really good at it.

Mike W

GokuSSJ4
11-13-2006, 09:54 AM
to be honest, i don't even know how you got dragged into this entire debate... All i saw was a "cat related topic" in your vendor forum, next thing " you're arguing" on the internet LOL

trinydex
11-14-2006, 12:40 AM
]


So this is the excuse you are all using to justify polluting? Give me a break. I still haven't gotten one LOGICAL reason, just piss-poor excuses. Guess that's asking too much.


Here is a reason.

Its stupid and does no good and actually does harm. Just like getting stuck with crappy gas in california for "environmental" reasons. We have gas that actually hurts the cars, gets worse mileage, and is actually WORSE for the environment. All these "Feel good" laws dance around the issue we have debated on other threads. We drive cars that use oil. They pollute. You dont want pollution, dont drive a car. Anyone that drives a car, and especially one that is a performance driven turbo car has NO bearing about whining about the environment. Put your money where your mouth is. Go green and get a bicycle.
actually if you don't wanna pollute don't use electricity. the emissions of oil firing power plants greatly outweighs that of traffic emissions.

also the emissions tests are based on ratios they say nothing about MASS of pollutants... vehicles like suvs and mercedes 500+ series luxery cars and the bugatti veyron get somewhere between 5-12 miles to the gallon put large amounts of MASS POLLUTANTS into the air compared to a car like the evo making 25 miles to the gallon. they're not greener than the evo... not even with cats on cruising at 3k rpms.

philthyevo
11-14-2006, 12:45 AM
You said it Triny!Â* Thats what I've been saying.

Ninja Edit: 10% is high. You guys have to realize that California is a very very small part of the whole world. ANd I do believe Texas or Michigan would be closer to 10% than California is.

trinydex
11-14-2006, 12:54 AM
i'm pointing out that that portion of the arguement was weak.

also the 10% factor (while i'm moving through the thread) coming out of california... if it is such... is all due to industry. we do have the worst traffic in southern california with northern california being somewhere close in the top 10. but you'd be foolish to ignore the fact that our industries in california pollute WAY MORE.

the other thing is... when you take gross polluting cars off the streets the industires get to pick up the points........... so where do you feel you're winning? it sucks but it's true.

it's safe definitely safe to say that california contributes 10% of hte TRAFFIC pollution in the world... but that's nothing that's like 1% of the entire scale...

trinydex
11-14-2006, 12:59 AM
Yeah I know Neil has a dream and thats great, but at least don't make up things like "California is 10% of global emissions" because thats far from the truth. I understand his point that we need to do our part in reducing our own pollution and spread word.

I wouldnt worry too much Neil. Its ok, I don't think all EVO owners have Test Pipes or rally cats anyway--some people dont want it to smell, or get smokey, or get a really pricey ticket.

Actually, I still have my stock cat on, just bought a HFC and now I'm thinking about getting a rally cat/test pipe instead of that HFC...but Im not sure what to do. If I replace my stock cat with a straight pipe, Im gaining what, 10hp--at best, right? Will I even feel a difference with a HFC instead of a stock cat?
i strongly disagree with this statement. if any one of us had a plan we'd be voting for people who want to invest in alternative energy particularly terrestrially renewable sources.

we'd be running alcohol in cars.

we'd be running nuclear power til we get there.

we'd burn the stupid hippies that stop us from getting our nuclear power

we'd castrate nevada for not letting us build repositories

we'd take out the carter administration's choices to ban nuclear waste reprocessing

we'd REALLY ACTUALLY hype up homeland security so the reprocessing was safe

do i see anyone talkin' about that? no... i see a lotta people chasing their tails.

trinydex
11-14-2006, 01:08 AM
Heres logic for you EVO Neil. If every one is so worried aboiut the environment ... why do pre 70's vehicle not have to be modded. 18 wheelers pollute more than my car. Why arent they retrofitted. I am not promoting TP's but I dont try to force my opinion on anyone especially when your point holds no value.. How long has the Ozone been depleting... we have what 30 years of research on an atmosphere thats been there a couple weeks longer... how do you know the atmosphere doesnt cycle every few thousand years. Oh you dont... You woulnt own a suburban or maybe a family member.... i hope not or Tgiving is gonna be a long converation....
oh man you hit a GOLD MINE MY FRIEND!

this brings to surface my ULTIMATE debate about life. everything in the universe is suffering from entropy... everything in life and death is a waste of energy. in order to extract energy for work to do ANYTHING we're facing efficiencies often less than 70%. turbos, powerplants, electric motors, batteries, YOUR BODY, EVERYTHING!

you wanna stop polluting... the next step is to stop living! what a conjecture right? who the fuck would ever think like that? apparently me... am i saying go kill urself? no i'm saying it really sucks if you view things like this. because in the end... if you care about the world so much why aren't you concerned about who gets the last portions of fossil fuels? there's only a limited amount left... WHO GETS TO CHOOSE WHO GETS THE REST??? money talks right..........

so the rich get to have it... what about africa... what about india even, what about cambodia, phillipines, vietnam! what do all those people do? they're alive... they're on this earth, THEY MIGHT HAVE EVEN PLAYED A PART IN MAKING THE RICH PEOPLE RICH... (yes it's called globalism and exploitation) but why don't they get some energy??? how is that fair... how is that humane?

in the end it is always going to be crocodile tears... you're alive... you're wasting energy... but what can we do, is it not then our unalienable right to pursue happiness?

trinydex
11-14-2006, 01:12 AM
]
Personally I find that HFC being lumped with a test pipe is lame, and shows how shortsighted the law is. The cats utilize platinum which is not a cheap metal, and also will probably be skimped on by OEMs, and I have seen HFCs that flowed better, but still were just as clean as the stock cats.
it is actually NOT short sighted. to flow more is ILLEGAL. the car is only certified to flow what it did from the factory. it has a certain amount of mass flow rate that has been deemed "legal" flowing more even at the same RATIO of emissions is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

that said... whatcha gonna do :\

this is in fact the premise behind carb certification... you're going through the entire process of certifying that this part... does not flow too much that the car then becomes a gross polluter.

this is why everything before the cat is illegal, this includes all intakes and piping! technically after the cat if you end up flowing more everything is still flowing through the same cat and the mass flow is roughly the same and if it's not... they can't do much about it. but before... that's a huge no no. that alters your engine delta in a big way and requires all kinds of testing.

philthyevo
11-14-2006, 01:19 AM
Dude have you been hibernating like a bear, storing and collecting your energy--all to come out and respond to every post you missed? Nice.

trinydex
11-14-2006, 01:25 AM
actually i didn't know what this thread was about.... someone pointed me to it laffing so i thot i'd put in 10 bucks worth of 2 cents.

blkside
11-14-2006, 05:36 AM
DAmn it then you need some change back with this sudden burst of responses... someone get him a comfy chair....

x[corwyn]
11-14-2006, 08:51 AM
]
Personally I find that HFC being lumped with a test pipe is lame, and shows how shortsighted the law is. The cats utilize platinum which is not a cheap metal, and also will probably be skimped on by OEMs, and I have seen HFCs that flowed better, but still were just as clean as the stock cats.
it is actually NOT short sighted. to flow more is ILLEGAL. the car is only certified to flow what it did from the factory. it has a certain amount of mass flow rate that has been deemed "legal" flowing more even at the same RATIO of emissions is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

that said... whatcha gonna do :\

this is in fact the premise behind carb certification... you're going through the entire process of certifying that this part... does not flow too much that the car then becomes a gross polluter.

this is why everything before the cat is illegal, this includes all intakes and piping! technically after the cat if you end up flowing more everything is still flowing through the same cat and the mass flow is roughly the same and if it's not... they can't do much about it. but before... that's a huge no no. that alters your engine delta in a big way and requires all kinds of testing.


I KNOW its illegal and WHY. I already posted that. If you read what I said though the actual process for emissions turns CO2 to Nitrous Oxide which doesn't hang around like CO2 but nonetheless is just as harmful to the environment. All we did is convert one substance thats "in your face" for one thats not so much but still bad. As always its another feel good but do nothing but harm regular people law. Its all give and take.

Ricardon
11-14-2006, 05:12 PM
I ate a bunch of Del Taco last night. A couple of hours later I was emitting some fairly seriously toxic fumes...dangerous greenhouse gasses if you will. I think someone needs to design an exhaust system for humans. They could call it the ass-back.

This thread fails.

x[corwyn]
11-14-2006, 05:16 PM
I ate a bunch of Del Taco last night. A couple of hours later I was emitting some fairly seriously toxic fumes...dangerous greenhouse gasses if you will. I think someone needs to design an exhaust system for humans. They could call it the ass-back.

This thread fails.




Thats because you had your restrictor removed AKA butt plug. So all the crap wasn't coming out your mouth from talking to the girl? I heard you busting out your smooth sales moves on her. Dude that must have been A LOT of Del Taco.... Nice ;)

Ricardon
11-14-2006, 05:43 PM
]


I ate a bunch of Del Taco last night. A couple of hours later I was emitting some fairly seriously toxic fumes...dangerous greenhouse gasses if you will. I think someone needs to design an exhaust system for humans. They could call it the ass-back.

This thread fails.




Thats because you had your restrictor removed AKA butt plug. So all the crap wasn't coming out your mouth from talking to the girl? I heard you busting out your smooth sales moves on her. Dude that must have been A LOT of Del Taco.... Nice ;)


I'm a helluva salesman!! ;)

x[corwyn]
11-14-2006, 06:13 PM
]


I ate a bunch of Del Taco last night. A couple of hours later I was emitting some fairly seriously toxic fumes...dangerous greenhouse gasses if you will. I think someone needs to design an exhaust system for humans. They could call it the ass-back.

This thread fails.




Thats because you had your restrictor removed AKA butt plug. So all the crap wasn't coming out your mouth from talking to the girl? I heard you busting out your smooth sales moves on her. Dude that must have been A LOT of Del Taco.... Nice ;)


I'm a helluva salesman!! ;)


Yea, but are you a closer? LOLOLOL :)

philthyevo
11-14-2006, 07:43 PM
You guys work at HB Mitsu?

philthyevo
11-14-2006, 08:53 PM
Thats where I bought my car, I met some of you guys.Â* Tom brokered a great deal for me--dunno if he's still there.

Ricardon
11-14-2006, 10:40 PM
You guys work at HB Mitsu?


I do. Mr. Corwin lives down the street and is one of the local EVO crew that frequents the store to hang out in the parking lot and shoot the breeze with us.

Ricardon
11-15-2006, 05:21 PM
Thats where I bought my car, I met some of you guys.Â* Tom brokered a great deal for me--dunno if he's still there.


Tom is the owner. He's still here.