Everything else in the world asside...

[Terry S]

If we found life outside earth this month, like bacteria & the like on mars, would you want to drastically increase our government budget towards space exploration?

Also, for those of you who are of "faith" (any kind), would it make you question your faith?

Terry S

[j_nizzle]

fk space...we need to focus on the problems here first...

LOL...did anyone see gore's "an inconvenient truth"?

[Terry S]

fk space...we need to focus on the problems here first...

LOL...did anyone see gore's "an inconvenient truth"?


LOL

and no on the movie. I dont support terrorists.

Terry S

[j_nizzle]

...well i watched it in one of my poli sci classes...interesting stuff. makes me want to drive catless, eat caviar, and take long hot showers every chance i get.

[Eckolaker]

If the world wasnt fucked up like it was. Then I would be all for increasing space exploration and colonization.

We need to get off this planet to survive as a species anyway.

Further more, Global warming is also happening on 8 other planets in our immediate solar system. It seems that this warming trend has not been limited to earth over the last 50 years. It appears as if all the planets are experiencing similar warming trends, largely related to the sun.

[Terry S]

If the world wasnt fucked up like it was. Then I would be all for increasing space exploration and colonization.

We need to get off this planet to survive as a species anyway.

Further more, Global warming is also happening on 8 other planets in our immediate solar system. It seems that this warming trend has not been limited to earth over the last 50 years. It appears as if all the planets are experiencing similar warming trends, largely related to the sun.


So all of the other planets are experiencing global warming? Including Mercury and Mars which have miniscule atmospheres due to their size? Or Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus & Neptune which are just gas balls anyways and cannot actually experience such a phenomenon?

Interesting...

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

Well considering that irradiating particles causes them to heat up...including gases.

I also suggest you do some further research about the planets and their make-ups. That last post was kinda hasty don't you think?

In the meantime here is some articles about Global warming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

Even pluto with it "Thin atmosphere"
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html

Graphs -http://biocab.org/Cosmic_Rays_Graph.html

More articles..
http://jiblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/global-warming-worse-than-first.html

Yes, even mars with it lack of atmosphere..
http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html

Galaxy's may even experience this same trend...http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/news/expandnews.cfm?id=9252

But fuck a bunch of Scientists at NASA right? They dont know shit about how planets behave right?

[Terry S]

I think my definition of "global warming" is why I questioned your post.

When you say global warming, I think you mean the magical Al Gore version, not the naturally occurring version which has been shunned by the Al Gore camp...

However, thanks for your response to my first of the two questions even if it makes no sense to me... Why would you want to intentionally limit our chance to find a way to colonize space to fix something that will never go away? We've always had "drastic" problems in the world and we always will. How can "fixing whats wrong now" ever change when it never has before?

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

Well as I said, shit is fucked up down here.

My point is that really to achieve any major goal in our solar system let alone our own galaxy it will require the efforts of just about every major nation. That said, right now countries and governments are to set in their own agendas to even consider global support for space exploration.

You would essentially have to dissolve NASA in favor of a global program free of governmental corruption and individual budget constraints. Right now, thats just a very far off possibility.

Regardless, if the human species is to survive, we will have to have massive colonies off earth. Either that or we will become extinct from our own admissions or an outside source like a asteroid.

[x[corwyn]]

I think we should be concentrating on and spending money towards colonization of other planets. Whats out there is worth so much more than whats just on earth. The amount of materials and wealth to be found just in the asteroid belt is worth going alone.

The announcement of Mars having water was already assumed before, but was hard to prove.

Also I never really understood the need for a space station when the Moon was already there and could be setup quite well. Unfortunately it was a very mismanaged project from the start. The shuttle was an attempt at cheap flight that actually cost significantly more. Even with those costs things were very mismanaged and short cutted, to give us less than we should have. So basically we poured money into a boondoggle.

For instance the initial creation of the space shuttle was for the express purpose of creating a large space station. We also had military projects that were space realted IE Dynasoar, and military stations that were to go up. Vietnam destroyed those plans.... except for the space shuttle which was the only leftover after those cuts. So now you had a vehicle without a mission that it was built for. We have lived with that mistake a for a long while, since the budget was eaten up by sending the shuttle up a few times a year. NASA should have had designs all ready to go way before now, or stood up and scrapped the shuttle for a better working design once the station was removed from the budget.

The soviets have us beat in the cheap, and reliable field right now. Anyone ever think we would be going up on Russian Soyuz ships? Thats a disgrace that I cant believe we bear. I have nothing against the Russians, I have a deep respect for them, but we as a country should havent suffered that indignity, because we were too damned cheap, but can dump money into tons of stupid projects and special interests. I would say patiotism for the US is all but dead, but patriotism to the all mighty dollar is alive and well. We have gone from a nation of heroes and people that have a deep set of national pride to accountants.

I KNOW this country can get us back to the moon and Mars. Once we do that who knows whats next? Titan? Out of solar system exploration? Unfortunately we are mired by our own shortsightedness. Someone else said that the key to survival is learning how to leave the planet. I agree whole heartedly. Its unfortunate that the masses dont see it that way, and our own government doesnt.

[Terry S]

Well as I said, shit is fucked up down here.

My point is that really to achieve any major goal in our solar system let alone our own galaxy it will require the efforts of just about every major nation. That said, right now countries and governments are to set in their own agendas to even consider global support for space exploration.

You would essentially have to dissolve NASA in favor of a global program free of governmental corruption and individual budget constraints. Right now, thats just a very far off possibility.

Regardless, if the human species is to survive, we will have to have massive colonies off earth. Either that or we will become extinct from our own admissions or an outside source like a asteroid.


Fortunately, the odds are drastically in our favor when it comes to asteroid impacts...

Terry S

[Mokaone]

kinda stopped reading u guy's post wen i started seeing that they got longer and longer. but back to the topic at hand...

the first one is kinda hard for me... cuz in one hand, odds are that we arent gonna find anything new from studying that new life form. but theres always a chance that there will. so im not real sure wat my answere is for that. i guess it would depends on wat exactly we find, and how many diff types of life form we find.

as for questioning ur faith and religion.. its just a matter of time before science makes everyone questions it. before, people thought there was a sun god and a moon god who took care of night and day. now we know that the earth revolves around the sun and the moon around us. as we find out more about the place that we life in and how it works, more questions are gonna be answered... questions that only to this date have been theories (in science) or could only be explained by a higher life form (in religion)

[trinydex]

i once again can't believe this is even being discussed... as if it's easy to you just go out there and start a diggin'. i mean c'mon... does anyone know how long it takes to get to the asteroid belt??? how long did it take the hubble to pass saturn??? how long does it take for a craft to get to mars???

on a planet where money makes things turn... you think we're gonna wait around a few months, or the MARKET will wait??? how about several years for the asteroid belt...

as if it's so damn easy to live in space. or on another planet with less containment pressure and no breathables. even if they found water... who cares... it's an ice cube. wtf are we gonna do with an ice cube??? you can't grow stuff there... what... conifers? conifers don't grow with ice... they grow with water. so you gonna heat the whole planet up? i mean this isn't star trek where you can just beam a planet with a genesis torpedo and shit starts coming to life. look at the space station. you have like two people living there and look how much resources it takes. to live on another planet with less atmosphere and less gravity... you'd have to have completely sealed structures, you'd have to wear suits all the time or have a completely pressurized ecosystem which is just absolutely ludacris because how the hell would you get the gas density to do that, you can't pump it from outside because outside is at less pressure... you'd have to live in a cylinder. and then there's the issue of feeding lots of people oxygen. and then there's the issue of feeding lots of people. goodness this gets to be so ridiculous it's like... how can you even think of it. when people go on ONE trip to space they have STRICT allotments on how much food they can bring for EACH PERSON, 3.5 pounds a day all contained 1 pound for packaging, no cooking all preserved, heating is the only option. AND THEY CAN'T BE SICK! you wanna get a cold on mars? you'll kill everyone. wipe out colds? humans will die from having weak immune systems. you're screwed if you do screwed if you don't.

why can't anyone see that the easiest thing is earth. that the answers by and large lie on earth.

out of our solar system... does anyone know how long it would take to get to the next system? 1 light year takes about 3000 years to travel by conventional propulsion. we can't even keep shit straight on a earth for that long....how are you gonna do it on a space craft that has to have people reproducing and being educated. and sooner or later you lose communication with earth so you can't even be educated on the latest and greatest. shortsightedness... it's just facts. until you can find a way to circumvent traditional spacetime then exploration of extra-milkyway space is impossible.

it's unlimited out there sure... but in the end it's like a nice dream. you can look and feel all you want and you can even try not to wake up but when you do, you don't take any of it back with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel

[trinydex]

as for life forms. what the hell is a life form? as humans know it life exists where water exists unless you're a virus in which case... oh shit we don't even have to go off our planet to get confused about what life is. what do humans define life as? organization? carbon based? movement? respiration? reproduction? what is it? and i'll find you plenty of examples right here on earth that you wouldn't call life.

if we find something else it'll just be inconsequential.

if you're referring to religion, people will say God made it. if you're referring to catching new diseases and how the hell did it get there... who knows, we don't even know how we got here so what changes?

[x[corwyn]]

as for life forms. what the hell is a life form? as humans know it life exists where water exists unless you're a virus in which case... oh shit we don't even have to go off our planet to get confused about what life is. what do humans define life as? organization? carbon based? movement? respiration? reproduction? what is it? and i'll find you plenty of examples right here on earth that you wouldn't call life.

if we find something else it'll just be inconsequential.

if you're referring to religion, people will say God made it. if you're referring to catching new diseases and how the hell did it get there... who knows, we don't even know how we got here so what changes?


The sheer amount of Earth like planets is in the hundreds of thousands just in our one galaxy. Its sheer arrogance to think that we are the only sentient species.

Also with all the advancements that we have made in computers once they were profitable to do so, we wont find a better way than just firing up a roman candle and sending us up that way? I have far more confidence in our ingenuity than that.

Not to mention if overcrowding combined with global warming does occur, what do you think the end result is? Civilization as we know it will likely be non-existant. Whats left could very well turn out mad maxish. While that might make cool movies I dont think living it will be fun.

[Miss Evo8]

...well i watched it in one of my poli sci classes...interesting stuff. makes me want to drive catless, eat caviar, and take long hot showers every chance i get.


I do that now!!! Well except the caviar part... but I have had it twice... it was ok

[trinydex]

]


as for life forms. what the hell is a life form? as humans know it life exists where water exists unless you're a virus in which case... oh shit we don't even have to go off our planet to get confused about what life is. what do humans define life as? organization? carbon based? movement? respiration? reproduction? what is it? and i'll find you plenty of examples right here on earth that you wouldn't call life.

if we find something else it'll just be inconsequential.

if you're referring to religion, people will say God made it. if you're referring to catching new diseases and how the hell did it get there... who knows, we don't even know how we got here so what changes?


The sheer amount of Earth like planets is in the hundreds of thousands just in our one galaxy. Its sheer arrogance to think that we are the only sentient species.

Also with all the advancements that we have made in computers once they were profitable to do so, we wont find a better way than just firing up a roman candle and sending us up that way? I have far more confidence in our ingenuity than that.

Not to mention if overcrowding combined with global warming does occur, what do you think the end result is? Civilization as we know it will likely be non-existant. Whats left could very well turn out mad maxish. While that might make cool movies I dont think living it will be fun.
i'd love to see some evidence of earth-like planets discovered. the closest things observed are multiple times earth mass, or have less atmosphere or have no water, or are ice cold... are we seeing how there's no earth like planets yet??? you wanna use the quantity arguement.... hardly any two planets are the same. they've found a hundred thousand jupiter like planets but none of them are like jupiter.

anyway, that had nothing to do with my original point which was that you'd really have to define what life is before your start trying to look for it in outerspace.

i have no doubt of human ingenuity. what i doubt is a breach in physics because i have the utmost confidence in that. nasa tells us that in order to even think about space exploration you must first find

A new propulsion method which has less need for propellant
A method of propulsion which is able to reach the maximum speed which is possible to attain
A new method of on board energy production which would power those devices.

now you have to ask yourself WHY they put forth these requirements. simple. time and space. in order to traverse the distance required you must use lots of time. that's why the craft has to reach the highest velocity possible. that's why we you have to GENERATE power to last a long time for the voyage that's why you need to use something that doesn't require you to shoot something out the back end constantly.

like i said. unless we can circumvent traditional views of spacetime there is NO PRACTICAL POSSIBILITY for interstellar travel. find wormholes and a way to prop them open and you're all game. find a way to go faster than light, you're there. find ripples in space time that you can walk through you got it. hold open the quantum foam, boom your doorway to yesterday. until then... fix earth.

cuz like you said... no one wants a mad max world... so we should turn our eyes back down to earth.

i mean i'd really really really like to know what people THINK they can do to travel in space. how do you travel 10^20 miles without using a LOT AND A LOT of time??? how? if it takes 50000 years to reach the nearest neighbor system... do you propose we start rowing now??? seriously........ like REALLY lemme know how you propose it, physics says you can't. UNLESS you find a way around space time.

[x[corwyn]]

A thousand years ago the world was flat. After that we were the center of the universe and the sun revolved around us. The more we learn the more it shows have insignificant we are towards the universe. Just a very small and minor blip. If we could pull the trillions of dollars of resources we dump into things like war imagine what we could do? A lot of things that we have now were impossible just even 20 or 30 years ago. All it took was a good business case to get them going. Businesses and countries are already recognizing that. Space and its riches are worth far more than this planet in its entirety. Look at Virgin. Hell look at the new space race for the moon. The moon is a natural satellite that is a very good jumping off point and observatory. Whoever controls that will have very good control of orbital space on Earth.

You can read from these 2 theories and the first is far more critical that there are very few other earths out there...but that they are out there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis . I believe this theory more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_mediocrity .

Overcrowding is an issue. The depletion of natural resources is another major issue. The transformation of our environment is an even bigger issue. Staying here in our nice and comfy blanket is going to work for only so long before an epic disaster hits. We either wipe a major portion of our population out and completely change the way we live, or we look for alternatives. I doubt very seriously wiping out the majority of humanity is a viable option.

[trinydex]

even if we don't wipe out a major part of our civilization soemthing will.... whether it be natural disasters. just a lack of resources or the squabble over said resources.

btw the second wiki link you sent has a great list of why earth is very unique. but simply saying wtih philosophical gesture that there must be other earths out there just cuz we once thot we were the center... i'mma have to see it first. there can be many out there, there may be life... but 1 it won't matter if we can't reach them. 2 it won't matter if we can't find them.

if there is a way for interstellar travel i already stated the most likely way we will achieve it, just hop around the galaxies. the only other method i can even dream up is to catch antimater and make propulsion with that because that's the only thing that will have enough energy to go anywhere in the big out thre.

[Terry S]

even if we don't wipe out a major part of our civilization soemthing will.... whether it be natural disasters. just a lack of resources or the squabble over said resources.

btw the second wiki link you sent has a great list of why earth is very unique. but simply saying wtih philosophical gesture that there must be other earths out there just cuz we once thot we were the center... i'mma have to see it first. there can be many out there, there may be life... but 1 it won't matter if we can't reach them. 2 it won't matter if we can't find them.

if there is a way for interstellar travel i already stated the most likely way we will achieve it, just hop around the galaxies. the only other method i can even dream up is to catch antimater and make propulsion with that because that's the only thing that will have enough energy to go anywhere in the big out thre.


Try looking at this link... It provides a good "estimation" for habitable planets & alien life forms in the galaxy/universe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are hundreds of millions of stars in the Milky way... And we're a small galaxy... And we've found hundreds of millions of galaxies... You do the math.

Terry S

[Eckolaker]

Theoretical physics...Just so happens this is one subject I know quite a bit about. (was studying to be one).

First off, the type of propulsion needed to reach outer space is already in existence. It's basically anti-matter technology. Problem currently is the technology is still very fledgling. However, each year it seems we make leaps and bounds in advancement of the concept. Now Trinydex is right, with current combustible fuel rockets it would take 50,000 years to reach the next star. However, with antimatter technology that same star could be reached in 6 years. I forget what University it is, but they are building an "atom smasher" that is supposed to be ready this year. This is said to bring huge advances in research once data begins to be collected.

Now when you get into worm holes, and rifts in time, thats where shit gets confusing. According to physical law, nothing can travel faster then the speed of light. So warp drives and worm holes technically all violate that law.

Mathematically, its impossible for there not to be planet(s) similar to earth in our universe. The scale of our universe is almost unimaginable. Its said that a grain of sand next to all the sand on earth is a billion times larger in relation to our earths size in the universe. The possibility of discovering another planet similar to earth is actually greater then the chance of you winning the lottery.

[trinydex]

my point with another earthlike planet and life as we know it is that it doesn't matter if we don't find it. speculation is just that... but seriously... we haven't got anything yet.

anti matter technology is great but we'd also have to find a way to find antimatter and capture it. that involves going out into space becuase there's no antimatter on earth. generating anti matter is not cost efficient, while you could theoretically have 100% energy storage efficiency right now, the way we make it we get like 10^-23 % efficiency.

also... with worm holes there's no violation of physics. you're just ceasing to travel through space (sort of) and traveling through time. the classical view of the universe is that time propagates in one direction and we have spacial dimensions that allow us to travel any number of ways. then examine a black hole. this is an entity where space only goes in one direction so you might guess (or the math may work out) that you can travel in time in both directions. couple this with the idea that we may live in a higher-than-what-we-know-and-can-observe-with-typical-experimentation space and you have a theory on how to travel through large amounts of space time without using up much space or time.

to verify that we live in a higher dimensional space you can contrive various experiments. say you live on a piece of paper but it's curved (this is like living in a three dimensional world where you're confined to observe 2 dimensions). how do you find out if your world is curved? well you and a friend hold a laser and point it at each other while walking towards a common third point. if you guys are really on a curved surface you'll eventually observe some sort of bend in the lasers. i'm actually not too clear on the details but the experiemnts go something like that.

[Terry S]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

There's a good start on antimatter..

Also, the Decemeber 2006 issue of Astronomy Magazine has a few great articles about Anti-Matter (specifically anti-hydrogen) and Anti-Matter rockets.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

The problem with antimatter is containment. Â*They have samples of antimatter now around. The next problem is creating the quantities to be used. Now fortunately with anti-matter its not a 1:1 ratio but more like a 1:10 ratio to extract energy from it. Its still a lot of anti-matter.... And talk about a bad substance to lose control of, the explosions from that would make a nuclear explosion tame in comparision.

So whats next? A remote outpost off earth for research and development. Oh wait, we cant go there because people want results first. Its a catch-22. We need to go out there with the limited technology we have and establish a foothold, then start to learn from our experiences, and pursue the new technlogies in a better controlled environment.

Now onto the theoretical, there are quite a few interesting things going on, especially at the quantum level. Physics with quantums gets a bit strange.... teleportation, possible matter to energy tranferences all seem to be possible at the quantum state. And supposedly there is the possibility of a deeper state than quantum. Imagine what we can learn there?

Plus has anyone ever heard of Tachyons? These are particles of energy whose slowest state is the speed of light. Perhaps there might be a way to harness those energies. There are so many possibilities that we cant really even begin to understand or research until we go to space.

To me this seems to be the classic issue that our generation has. We concentrate way too much on the short term and blind ourselves to the needs of the long term.

[Terry S]

]
The problem with antimatter is containment. They have samples of antimatter now around. The next problem is creating the quantities to be used. Now fortunately with anti-matter its not a 1:1 ratio but more like a 1:10 ratio to extract energy from it. Its still a lot of anti-matter.... And talk about a bad substance to lose control of, the explosions from that would make a nuclear explosion tame in comparision.

So whats next? A remote outpost off earth for research and development. Oh wait, we cant go there because people want results first. Its a catch-22. We need to go out there with the limited technology we have and establish a foothold, then start to learn from our experiences, and pursue the new technlogies in a better controlled environment.

Now onto the theoretical, there are quite a few interesting things going on, especially at the quantum level. Physics with quantums gets a bit strange.... teleportation, possible matter to energy tranferences all seem to be possible at the quantum state. And supposedly there is the possibility of a deeper state than quantum. Imagine what we can learn there?

Plus has anyone ever heard of Tachyons? These are particles of energy whose slowest state is the speed of light. Perhaps there might be a way to harness those energies. There are so many possibilities that we cant really even begin to understand or research until we go to space.

To me this seems to be the classic issue that our generation has. We concentrate way too much on the short term and blind ourselves to the needs of the long term.


Teleportation (per se) has been achieved... I cant find that article again, but someone has accidentally cause matter teleportation on a very small level..

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

]
The problem with antimatter is containment. They have samples of antimatter now around. The next problem is creating the quantities to be used. Now fortunately with anti-matter its not a 1:1 ratio but more like a 1:10 ratio to extract energy from it. Its still a lot of anti-matter.... And talk about a bad substance to lose control of, the explosions from that would make a nuclear explosion tame in comparision.

So whats next? A remote outpost off earth for research and development. Oh wait, we cant go there because people want results first. Its a catch-22. We need to go out there with the limited technology we have and establish a foothold, then start to learn from our experiences, and pursue the new technlogies in a better controlled environment.

Now onto the theoretical, there are quite a few interesting things going on, especially at the quantum level. Physics with quantums gets a bit strange.... teleportation, possible matter to energy tranferences all seem to be possible at the quantum state. And supposedly there is the possibility of a deeper state than quantum. Imagine what we can learn there?

Plus has anyone ever heard of Tachyons? These are particles of energy whose slowest state is the speed of light. Perhaps there might be a way to harness those energies. There are so many possibilities that we cant really even begin to understand or research until we go to space.

To me this seems to be the classic issue that our generation has. We concentrate way too much on the short term and blind ourselves to the needs of the long term.


Teleportation (per se) has been achieved... I cant find that article again, but someone has accidentally cause matter teleportation on a very small level..

Terry S




Actual matter transport? Wow. I only knew they had done that at a few milliseconds with light.

[Terry S]

]
Actual matter transport? Wow. I only knew they had done that at a few milliseconds with light.


Yea, it was with some super-excited stream of hydrogen or something like that... my astro teacher has the article... I'll see if I can grab it when I take my final today.

terry S

[Eckolaker]

anti matter technology is great but we'd also have to find a way to find antimatter and capture it. that involves going out into space becuase there's no antimatter on earth. generating anti matter is not cost efficient, while you could theoretically have 100% energy storage efficiency right now, the way we make it we get like 10^-23 % efficiency.

Actually not entirely true. Antimatter exists everywhere. For every particle of matter exists a particle of antimatter exists.. As others and yourself have mentioned, the problem is containment. We have successfully created antimatter and contained it for a short period of time. They do it at that particle acceleration facility "fermilab". So far I pretty sure all we know is that a magnetic field can contain the matter as long as its kept moving in a vacuum. Problem is if the particle of antimatter collides with anything it is obliterated.

[Terry S]

Problem is if the particle of antimatter collides with anything it is obliterated.


Which is where we get the fun stuff from. We need very large magnetic spaceships.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

Problem is if the particle of antimatter collides with anything it is obliterated.


Which is where we get the fun stuff from. We need very large magnetic spaceships.

Terry S


Or something that can generate a very strong magnetic field in a small area.

Also I read something a few years back where they were able to make plasma fields that were similar to star trek shields. They were able to envelope an object and protect it from particles coming in. Thats always been one of the big issues when it comes to long flights.

Shielding especially at speed. Going at a fraction of the speed of light still has more than enough kinetic energy to take objects that are smaller than a penny and shoot them through your ship. Not fun. Thats where that plasma shield comes in handy...

Life support. Gravity really is necessary for us to survive in. You can rotate an object to make gravity, but acceleration and deceleration will take years to get to a small fraction of the speed of light. Or you can turn everyone and everything into a nice goo. Food/water... There will need to be either enough space to contain large amounts of both, or ways to regenerate both. Air same as food/water.

Sleeper ships, which can contain everyone in a liquid, which will help with the effects of acceleration and deceleration can help with the life support issues, but they all still need to be addressed.

Propulsion. Chemical propulsion is what we use right now and its the most inefficient. Nuclear would be a better alternative, however because of environmental concerns and treaties its not in use. There is ion propulsion devices which are working well for sattelites, but for our purposes of exploration, would still not be adequate.

[trinydex]

anti matter technology is great but we'd also have to find a way to find antimatter and capture it. that involves going out into space becuase there's no antimatter on earth. generating anti matter is not cost efficient, while you could theoretically have 100% energy storage efficiency right now, the way we make it we get like 10^-23 % efficiency.

Actually not entirely true. Antimatter exists everywhere. For every particle of matter exists a particle of antimatter exists.. As others and yourself have mentioned, the problem is containment. We have successfully created antimatter and contained it for a short period of time. They do it at that particle acceleration facility "fermilab". So far I pretty sure all we know is that a magnetic field can contain the matter as long as its kept moving in a vacuum. Problem is if the particle of antimatter collides with anything it is obliterated.
are you quite serious? there is no proof that antimatter exists everywhere and there's no proof that for every piece of matter there is also one piece of antimatter. that is ridiculous to assume. if antimatter were everywhere we'd constantly be bombarded by gamma rays when they annialate. it doesn't exist naturally on earth or any place made of matter.

i know about cern and fermilab that's where i got my information from. the problem is not containment. the problem is A generating it. B finding it. if you can do one or the other efficienty then you've got it made. thus far we're pretty behind the shitbox on both. it takes too long and too much energy and money to create large amounts of it, or rather it's just not possible with means at the moment and in order to find it we got the catch 22 of not havin a cool enough propulsion to get there far enough away from stuff to "mine" it.

there's also no need to build something far away to study antimatter they're doin' fine on earth. if you study it in small quantities it's just as good as studying it in large quantities. containment isn't easy but generating it is even less easy times 10^23.

[x[corwyn]]

Containing anti-matter not a problem? You might want to talk to some people cause you know something they dont. Also creating a large quantity of something that isn't contained too well on earth, a good practice? I think NIMBY would come into play....

[trinydex]

well not being contained well on earth is the same as not being well contained anywhere, it doesn't matter where you move it you're still using a matter based contraption to contain it. the problem isn't so much the containment. we'd have to find it first.

we can contain it in vac (which is easy) and in magnetic field (which is also easy) how long can it last? well that's what we need to study more of... i do think this is promising but only if we can mine it. creating it would just take up more resources we don't have.

[Eckolaker]

are you quite serious? there is no proof that antimatter exists everywhere and there's no proof that for every piece of matter there is also one piece of antimatter. that is ridiculous to assume. if antimatter were everywhere we'd constantly be bombarded by gamma rays when they annialate. it doesn't exist naturally on earth or any place made of matter.


Its all theoretical physics at this point anyway. So when you deal with theoretical physics you tend to use the one most widely agreed upon.

Now antimatter was originally discovered when scientists went to determine what the weight of the universe would be. All of their original calculations were coming up funky. Either their estimates were way off, or they were missing a huge portion of mass that was effecting gravity. I think the figure was something like 10% of what they had originally estimated. It was later suggested that for particle of matter existed a particle of antimatter. Its also currently agreed upon that antimatter makes up between 60 and 90% of the universes total mass. Steven Hawking actually goes into some length on the subject in a few of his papers. You can find them on the Cambridge website.

[trinydex]

are you sure you're not talking about dark matter... cuz they're different. and the scientific history you're describing is that of dark matter.

[x[corwyn]]

are you sure you're not talking about dark matter... cuz they're different. and the scientific history you're describing is that of dark matter.


Dark matter is another explanation to account for the extra mass too. Anti-matter is another theory.

I know Hawking just had a subject where he reversed himself too, but it was on the subject of black holes.... I dont remember him speaking on anti-matter. I will have to dig around for that in just a bit when I get some more time....

[Terry S]

Guys, seriously. Check out the december astronomy mag article. Apparently they have created hundreds of millions of anti-hydrogen particles. Creating it, & containing it isn't the issue. It's getting the funds to create MORE of it & having more facilities able to create it. That's all. It's a done technology. It's only limited by funds & facilities right now.

Fuck homeless/religious charities. When i'm filthy rich, i'm giving my money to science research.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

Guys, seriously. Check out the december astronomy mag article. Apparently they have created hundreds of millions of anti-hydrogen particles. Creating it, & containing it isn't the issue. It's getting the funds to create MORE of it & having more facilities able to create it. That's all. It's a done technology. It's only limited by funds & facilities right now.

Fuck homeless/religious charities. When i'm filthy rich, i'm giving my money to science research.

Terry S


Cool! What I REALLY want is photon torpedoes for my car. Those are basically matter/antimatter rockets. Just small ones. So that way I can blow the living shit outta assholes that are in the fast lane and going slow and are too busy wanking on the phone to move over.

[Terry S]

]


Guys, seriously. Check out the december astronomy mag article. Apparently they have created hundreds of millions of anti-hydrogen particles. Creating it, & containing it isn't the issue. It's getting the funds to create MORE of it & having more facilities able to create it. That's all. It's a done technology. It's only limited by funds & facilities right now.

Fuck homeless/religious charities. When i'm filthy rich, i'm giving my money to science research.

Terry S


Cool! What I REALLY want is photon torpedoes for my car. Those are basically matter/antimatter rockets. Just small ones. So that way I can blow the living shit outta assholes that are in the fast lane and going slow and are too busy wanking on the phone to move over.


Even better. High powered laser beams. Blind them, cut "asshole" into their trunk, blow out a tire... and without the whole "explosion" giving you away thing. O0

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

]


Guys, seriously. Check out the december astronomy mag article. Apparently they have created hundreds of millions of anti-hydrogen particles. Creating it, & containing it isn't the issue. It's getting the funds to create MORE of it & having more facilities able to create it. That's all. It's a done technology. It's only limited by funds & facilities right now.

Fuck homeless/religious charities. When i'm filthy rich, i'm giving my money to science research.

Terry S


Cool! What I REALLY want is photon torpedoes for my car. Those are basically matter/antimatter rockets. Just small ones. So that way I can blow the living shit outta assholes that are in the fast lane and going slow and are too busy wanking on the phone to move over.


Even better. High powered laser beams. Blind them, cut "asshole" into their trunk, blow out a tire... and without the whole "explosion" giving you away thing. O0

Terry S


but I *WANT* the explosion. Let the people before and after me to know whats coming. But yea the lasers would also be good. I would just want to either vaporize or just slice the damned car in half and let the pieces go either side of where I am.