Engine Braking

[mister thura]

I was wondering if engine braking would severely hurt the Evo's drive train.. Knowing that the evos have a weak drive train and such. I used to do it all the time in my 350z when I had it, but I'm kind of afraid to do it in the Evo after reading about the weak tranny.

[tanK]

I think its OK to do it, but engine braking in general puts more wear and tear on it. Why not just use your brakes? Its easier and cheaper to replace brake pads. Only time I could see you using it is going down a steep hill (why wouldn't you use your brakes here anyway) or on a track but not for long periods of time anyway...

[mister thura]

I mean I don't do it on a daily basis to slow down or anything. The only times I actually do it are when I'm about to make a turn on a city street a higher speed than usual, I shift down and try to match the revs so it'll be much easier on the drive train and it's pretty much smooth.

[tanK]

So your saying you just downshift? Thats fine as long as you're shifting into the lower gear smoothly you should have no problems. Its when you jerk the car a lot when you start to break / wear things out.

[chuckdashi]

rev matching is not really engine braking... as far as what i know... rev matching puts less stress on your tranny...

[oct7th1987]

i started a thread on this a while back.

i engine brake with everyday driving. i was told to do it when the car was new... and i just got stuck with it. its a habit now.

its not like im engine braking to slow the car down from 80mph though. just city driving.

[CornerSpeedRacing]

engine braking is pointless for street use. Puts wear and tear on ur engine, and drive train, and it only to helps u brake only a little more. Engine braking is used on the track to keep ur car stable and balanced when taking turns, and downshifting is for being in the gear u want to be when ur accelerating out of the turn.

[fusionchicken]

i do it depending on my mood, but i do it the most for corners too. if i'm coming up at a corner fast then i heel-toe, other wise i just rev-match down shift to slow down for the corner.

i've read that the only negatives for rev-matching engine braking is using up fuel, but wtf, it's fun.

and yea no rev-match is bad.

[Barfly]

i do it depending on my mood, but i do it the most for corners too. if i'm coming up at a corner fast then i heel-toe, other wise i just rev-match down shift to slow down for the corner.

i've read that the only negatives for rev-matching engine braking is using up fuel, but wtf, it's fun.

and yea no rev-match is bad.


one purpose of using heel-toe (which is rev-matching) is to reduce the likelihood of unsettling the car when you are attempting to maximize your corner entry grip (i.e. as close to 100% as possible). it's other purpose is to reduce synchromesh wear. the cost of braking components is much cheaper than doing tranny work. ask me how i know...as i am still waiting on my car to be finished after 2 months of waiting.

[240sxmonster]

+1 O0

[Mister Evo]

I heel toe a lot and haven't noticed any unusual wear and tear. When I first started trying to do it in my WRX however I wasn't revving enough and could feel more of a strain. I learned to rev-match at Big Willow and ever since have been much smoother. As long as you can do that well I believe you should be ok.

[DTunedEvoX]

I engine brake all the time combined with heel and toeing + rev matching ... usually for corners plus you'd want to be in the right gear/powerband when your exiting ...

[ryan0]

combined with heel and toeing + rev matching .


thats the 2nd time.. you all know thats the same thing right?

[fusionchicken]

rev-matching doesn't necessary have to involve braking at the same time....i downshift rev-match sometimes just to slow down for a red light for fun, and tap the brake the last second after i'm in neutral to come to a complete stop.

[ryan0]

rev-matching doesn't necessary have to involve braking at the same time.


what exactly is the point in that?.. 'fun' while you strain engine/tranny parts?

brake pads are cheap people.. cheaper than a tranny.. use them.

[Ricardon]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Ryan on this one. It's kind of funny to hear people say things like "I heel-toe + rev match". I rest while sleeping and I masticate while chewing as well.

Ok, all joking aside...there really is absolutely no point in rev matching to decelerate on the street. The entire point of rev matching is, as was posted earlier, to select the proper gear when you go to ACCELERATE without unbalancing the car. It is not used to slow down folks...that's what your brakes are for. Oh, and if you are just downshifting without matching just to slow down on the street...I hope someone comes to your house and steals your evo because you're too stupid to own it. And the last reason this thread fails...this exact topic has been covered more than twice in this very part of the forum.

[EvoPwr]

rev-matching doesn't necessary have to involve braking at the same time....i downshift rev-match sometimes just to slow down for a red light for fun, and tap the brake the last second after i'm in neutral to come to a complete stop.


Heel toeing invloves rev matching...

For those who don't know because some of you on the boards concern me...Heel toeing is braking while at the sametime rev matching.

A lot of people on here say they heel toe, just because you can do it doesn't mean you are good at it, therefore adding a lot more stress on the car. Please for the sake of the evo, unless you are Kent Jordan, stop hurting your evo. I have seen/heard people "heel toe" and I can't stop laughing. :2funny:

[fusionchicken]

rev-matching doesn't necessary have to involve braking at the same time....i downshift rev-match sometimes just to slow down for a red light for fun, and tap the brake the last second after i'm in neutral to come to a complete stop.


Heel toeing invloves rev matching...


right, but with the addition of braking, which was exactly my point.

i said "for fun" when down-shift rev-matching to decelerate, as in if i see a red light pretty far away ahead then i'll sometimes decel slowly by down shifting.

could i use the brake? yes, and i usually do.

[CornerSpeedRacing]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Ryan on this one. It's kind of funny to hear people say things like "I heel-toe + rev match". I rest while sleeping and I masticate while chewing as well.

Ok, all joking aside...there really is absolutely no point in rev matching to decelerate on the street. The entire point of rev matching is, as was posted earlier, to select the proper gear when you go to ACCELERATE without unbalancing the car. It is not used to slow down folks...that's what your brakes are for. Oh, and if you are just downshifting without matching just to slow down on the street...I hope someone comes to your house and steals your evo because you're too stupid to own it. And the last reason this thread fails...this exact topic has been covered more than twice in this very part of the forum.



Totally agree w/ you. As i stated b4.



engine braking is pointless for street use. Puts wear and tear on ur engine, and drive train, and it only to helps u brake only a little more. Engine braking is used on the track to keep ur car stable and balanced when taking turns, and downshifting is for being in the gear u want to be when ur accelerating out of the turn.

[Skiracer]

So, if i need to do an emergency stop, should i shift from 5th gear to first gear??

[ryan0]

So, if i need to do an emergency stop, should i shift from 5th gear to first gear??


depends on if you have abs

[Ricardon]

So, if i need to do an emergency stop, should i shift from 5th gear to first gear??


If you are doing an emergency stop, you aren't shifting gears at all. You are putting the brake pedal into the carpet and hanging on. and like Ryan said...using that wonderful ABS system the EVO has. You'd also be using your left foot to clutch in so you don't stall the vehicle. If you plan on slamming on the brakes to a point where 1st gear would be the proper gear to be in, you most likely would be coming to a complete stop anyway. If you are in a situation where you'd be right back on the gas again, then sure blip and get right back on the gas. That situation however would more than likely not be a 5-1, probably a 5-2 or a 5-3.

[Barfly]

engine braking is use to stop faster when the brake pads are not strong enough, so use than is very normal


WTF? Is that really your first post?

[greentrbo95gst]

rev-matching doesn't necessary have to involve braking at the same time....i downshift rev-match sometimes just to slow down for a red light for fun, and tap the brake the last second after i'm in neutral to come to a complete stop.


Heel toeing invloves rev matching...

For those who don't know because some of you on the boards concern me...Heel toeing is braking while at the sametime rev matching.

A lot of people on here say they heel toe, just because you can do it doesn't mean you are good at it, therefore adding a lot more stress on the car. Please for the sake of the evo, unless you are Kent Jordan, stop hurting your evo. I have seen/heard people "heel toe" and I can't stop laughing. :2funny:



You are totally right.

[Evowned SE]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Ryan on this one. It's kind of funny to hear people say things like "I heel-toe + rev match". I rest while sleeping and I masticate while chewing as well.

Ok, all joking aside...there really is absolutely no point in rev matching to decelerate on the street. The entire point of rev matching is, as was posted earlier, to select the proper gear when you go to ACCELERATE without unbalancing the car. It is not used to slow down folks...that's what your brakes are for. Oh, and if you are just downshifting without matching just to slow down on the street...I hope someone comes to your house and steals your evo because you're too stupid to own it. And the last reason this thread fails...this exact topic has been covered more than twice in this very part of the forum.



lol

[hpd_wally]

I'm glad you guys are on the right track.

Engine braking is best used on corner entry to help stabilize unbalanced cars to maximize braking effort, and ensure no excessive yaw is induced on initial turn in. In the control scheme for a typical F1 car (in 2007, not allowed in 2008), the EBC control will include a slight throttle blip when needed under hard braking to provide adjustments for pitch balance (front to back), which may have been upset due to the harsh application of the brakes, changing road condition, brake fade, unexpected heave, or road noise Contact patch load variation.


This is most pronounced and useful in a rear wheel drive setup. Engine breaking is meant to add positive torque on the rear wheels only, whilst an EVO would add torque according the ratio the center differential is splitting. I am not sure exactly what the evo X diff will do underbraking, though I doubt it will have a need to do any balancing through an electronic throttle. If your car is consistently balanced before turn in, such control is not needed. I am assuming we will see a few more turn in oversteers snaps this season @ melbourne, as driver get used to stabbing the brakes less than they did years prior.

You can attempt to do all the heel toes, and 'rev-match down shifts' in corner entry as you like, yet all you will be accomplishing is minimizing grip disturbance on the load patch more closely to your front tires, which should be doing most of the work, not necessarily increasing braking effort . The reason why most race drivers heel toe in entry is so they are in proper gear to balance the car during steady state, and are prepared for corner exit. Contact patch load variation is inevitable so it is best to due this in straightline, rather than in the corner.

[fastkevin]

Brakes are a lot cheaper to replace than a transmission. As far as rev-matching, you do it so you don't lock the motor and spin under decel. A basic rule of thumb applies on the track. You're either on the gas, or on the brakes. Anything else (coasting, and/or using the motor to slow down) is a waste of time, literally

[DRTY_DUZT]

combined with heel and toeing + rev matching .


thats the 2nd time.. you all know thats the same thing right?
+1
seriouslyy

[CS05EVO]

Is it bad that I just like the way it sounds?

[mad pup]

^ I love blipping the throttle on a downshift too. I wouldn't sweat it.

Sure, it's more wear on your engine/tranny, but so is adding boost, and so is shifting at redline.

Deceleration will add no more wear than acceleration, and downshifts will add add no more wear than upshifts, IF DONE PROPERLY.

You'll probably sell the car before the engine and tranny wear out.