Evo 9 w/New Buschur 20G LT turbo and GSC S1 cams to be tuned

[Smogrunner]

Mr. Birdie is taking the plunge. Here is his post from the TT mega merge:



Here my set up.

Injen intake, 255 lph fuel pump, 780cc RC injector, HKS EVC BC, HKS carbon ti, tanabe downpipe, helix test pipe.

@23psi on 91, I made 328whp/310lbs.

I just schedule for another appointment this Saturday Jan. 13th.
This is for Burschur racing 20G-LT turbo, LICP, 02 housing, GSC S1 cams + TUNE!

See ya on saturday TT crew O0


Mr. Birdie, what is you first name, last initial? Are you Vien T?

If yes, this is Mr. Birdie's dyno chart on 91 octane from his last trip to TT:
http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10300/normal_Evo9%20VienT%209-06%20327.jpg


Predictions anyone? Hey Birdie, are you going to see what it can do on race fuel too?

[GokuSSJ4]

im more interested on seeing how his car performs with the new GSC S1 cams... see if there worth the hype ...

[Luxury Broker]

Smog ... what time is his appointment on Sat. as I am interested in attending ??

[UMIAMI80]

This turbo spools ALMOST as fast and from what I have been seeing, flows the same at 21 PSI as what a stock turbo does at 28PSI spiking according to HZ counts, or 2100Hz. It''l make power, too bad you guys have 91 :(

[xEviLxVIIIx]

MR. Birdie is Vien T., hope his car comes out good

[Miss Evo8]

Patiently waiting............

[Jenn@ttech]

In progress.... :mitsu:

[EvoPwr]

Anything yet?

[atlvalet]

Bump for results :)

[Jenn@ttech]

The owner just left!!! He will be posting. 8)

[1WkdEvo]

The anticipation is killing me Jenn :tickedoff:

[atlvalet]

Aaargh. Need results :)

[MR. Birdie]

Ok here is the result that everyone been waiting for. I don't know what to say, I didn't hit the numbers that I wanted but never the less what can you do? I don't know which part is not perform like it suppose to since both the cams and turbo were install at the same time. I do want to say thank you to the TT crew and alfread for spending alot of time trying to make it work. O0 O0 So here the shake down on mods.

Current mods: Burschur TBE with high flow cat, RC 780CC, 255lph pump, Injen intake, Burschur LICP, Burschur 02 housing, Burschur 20G-LT, GSC S1 cams.

Red line is with all the current mods
Blue line is with the pervious mods without the turbo and cams.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2809/untitledkh2.png

So what should I doÂ* :?

[atlvalet]

Well, personally, I am suspect of the cams. I think the Cosworths are a little better, from what I've seen. Someone else had the S1's installed with underwhelming results vs. Goku's car. However, 350whp is what I would expect from this turbo on 91, possibly 400whp on 100 octane. I am still considering getting one for my car.

And also, it's Buschur :)

[earlyapex]

28whp and 20wtq gain?

:-X

[Ivan]

28whp and 20wtq gain?

:-X



Look at the graph. Do not just look at the peak numbers. He gained 40 HP and 40 TQ in some places. LOOK AT THE HOLE GRAPH!

[earlyapex]

28whp and 20wtq gain?

:-X



Look at the graph. Do not just look at the peak numbers. He gained 40 HP and 40 TQ in some places. LOOK AT THE HOLE GRAPH!


Yea I never look at dyno graphs. sorry.

"whole"

[thugline]

Ok here is the result that everyone been waiting for. I don't know what to say, I didn't hit the numbers that I wanted but never the less what can you do? I don't know which part is not perform like it suppose to since both the cams and turbo were install at the same time. I do want to say thank you to the TT crew and alfread for spending alot of time trying to make it work. O0 O0 So here the shake down on mods.

Current mods: Burschur TBE with high flow cat, RC 780CC, 255lph pump, Injen intake, Burschur LICP, Burschur 02 housing, Burschur 20G-LT, GSC S1 cams.

Red line is with all the current mods
Blue line is with the pervious mods without the turbo and cams.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2809/untitledkh2.png

So what should I doÂ* :?

First of all, Why did u even waste ur money on a buschur 20-g Lt? Second, Why didn't u just save up about $1,300 more and got on of their garrett setups(like the 3076r or the gt35r etc). Or are u just satistfied with just having 400whp as ur goal or u can not afford it? I think u could have made those same #'s with the factory 9 turbo and probably the Cosworth cams as well. 355whp is still a good #, just not what u paid for.

[Alfred@TTech]

It's all about powerband. I took the car out for my normal post-tune test drive and it was extremely fast. It spools just as quickly as the stock turbo but makes a substantial increase in area under the curve.

I would like to have your car back here so we can stud the motor and do a 100 oct map! ;)


Alfred :mitsu:

[smokinevo9]

hey al can you get me these cams.. O0

[earlyapex]

It's all about powerband. I took the car out for my normal post-tune test drive and it was extremely fast. It spools just as quickly as the stock turbo but makes a substantial increase in area under the curve.

I would like to have your car back here so we can stud the motor and do a 100 oct map! ;)


Alfred :mitsu:


We are making those kinda power gains with just cams on the 9's, so what made the gains, the turbo or the cams?

[GokuSSJ4]

Well, personally, I am suspect of the cams. I think the Cosworths are a little better, from what I've seen. Someone else had the S1's installed with underwhelming results vs. Goku's car. However, 350whp is what I would expect from this turbo on 91, possibly 400whp on 100 octane. I am still considering getting one for my car.

And also, it's Buschur :)
thats the bad thing with installing all differnet parts at the same time (been there, done that!) in order to zoom in the problem, one part at a time should be done and tune for.. specially with parts that havent showned enough results..

[statix]

Its unfortunate that you guys didnt follow what you originally said, first install and tune the turbo than install the cams to see the difference in power gains, now you nor anyone else will know which made the power, the cams or the turbo......

Ok here is the result that everyone been waiting for. I don't know what to say, I didn't hit the numbers that I wanted but never the less what can you do? I don't know which part is not perform like it suppose to since both the cams and turbo were install at the same time. I do want to say thank you to the TT crew and alfread for spending alot of time trying to make it work. O0 O0 So here the shake down on mods.

Current mods: Burschur TBE with high flow cat, RC 780CC, 255lph pump, Injen intake, Burschur LICP, Burschur 02 housing, Burschur 20G-LT, GSC S1 cams.

Red line is with all the current mods
Blue line is with the pervious mods without the turbo and cams.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2809/untitledkh2.png

So what should I do :?

[GokuSSJ4]

Its unfortunate that you guys didnt follow what you originally said, first install and tune the turbo than install the cams to see the difference in power gains, now you nor anyone else will know which made the power, the cams or the turbo......
best thing or easiest thing would be, un install the cams.. tune the car again! (before doing anything further) and see the results... go base on those results...

[ultraflip]

Its unfortunate that you guys didnt follow what you originally said, first install and tune the turbo than install the cams to see the difference in power gains, now you nor anyone else will know which made the power, the cams or the turbo......
best thing or easiest thing would be, un install the cams.. tune the car again! (before doing anything further) and see the results... go base on those results...


you pay for the labor then

[MR. Birdie]

yes that's the thing, I'm trying to save money on tuning the vehicle twice since I dont have hundread dollar bill coming out my butthole. =)

I'm also considering swaping out the cams back to stock and see what happends.

[kimletrim]

Vien, sorry to hear that you didn't meet your goal. Those are nice numbers but not what you expected.

Area under the curve is nice.

But I must admit that I never really had too much faith in the new turbo from Buschur. He apparently makes so much power, but nobody else can replicate his numbers. And I'm sure you will hear it some more, but you will probably make similar power without a turbo "upgrade" since other's have been able to do so on the 9.

I will say the turbo appears to make power. But it is not the power you were looking for and definitely not worth Buschur's price of admission.

[Luxury Broker]

I really do not see how the comment on this dudes cash flow comes into effect hear. He had hopes and expectations for what he was shooting for. Had he nailed it hands down, well that is why we are all on this thread right ... I still feel the results are interesting. Only thing is not knowing where each mod came in effect. But I would have done the exact same thing for cost effectiveness, especially after paying over 2G's on the mods.

[MR. Birdie]

Well just to let you guys known, during the tuning procoess Alfread was amaze that the car made 324whp at 16lbs of boost. I'm starting to think that the cams might have some type of effect. What do you guys think? I really want to swap out the GSC cams with stocker now and find out what is not doing it job. If its the turbo then im going GT series, if its the cams then i might go with cosworth 272/272 set up.

[1WkdEvo]

I'm sure I am missing it, but I did not see Boost controller on here or what boost you were running on this tune? Â*The first post says something, but some of the other mods are different than what you personally posted so I am unsure . Â*Thanks. Â*

A little disappointing, but don't stress the peak numbers, focus on the overall gain without having lost the quick spool. Â*This isn't much different than I expected with this turbo upgrade, but our hopes usually outpace reality. Â*I know my numbers are well less than most of the people with the same mods and same tuner, but wtf can you do man. Â*Thanks for the update!

[thugline]

Well just to let you guys known, during the tuning procoess Alfread was amaze that the car made 324whp at 16lbs of boost. I'm starting to think that the cams might have some type of effect. What do you guys think? I really want to swap out the GSC cams with stocker now and find out what is not doing it job. If its the turbo then im going GT series, if its the cams then i might go with cosworth 272/272 set up.

Man, it looks like u wanna waste ur money bro! I'm sure the cams are fine, it's just that u picked the wrong turbo for ur expectations. IMO! Do u have an upgraded FMIC?

[MR. Birdie]

Yes I have the HKS EVC boost controller that is why alfred is able to seet it low at 16psi. I'm starting to debat to go with the GT3076 now.

[GokuSSJ4]

yes that's the thing, I'm trying to save money on tuning the vehicle twice since I dont have hundread dollar bill coming out my butthole. =)

I'm also considering swaping out the cams back to stock and see what happends.
been there done that! you add 2 parts and the results you see arent what you expected! which do you blame? specially with parts that you are uncertain on whether they will work or not and if they do what to expect. now that you are at the is position, either you keep the set up and learn to be happy or you spend a bit more $$$ and find out what the problem truely is.

[thugline]

Yes I have the HKS EVC boost controller that is why alfred is able to seet it low at 16psi. I'm starting to debat to go with the GT3076 now.

Buschur sells the GTseries turbo kit for $3,000 a piece(gt3076r,gt35r etc..).

[GokuSSJ4]

Well just to let you guys known, during the tuning procoess Alfread was amaze that the car made 324whp at 16lbs of boost. I'm starting to think that the cams might have some type of effect. What do you guys think? I really want to swap out the GSC cams with stocker now and find out what is not doing it job. If its the turbo then im going GT series, if its the cams then i might go with cosworth 272/272 set up.

Man, it looks like u wanna waste ur money bro! I'm sure the cams are fine, it's just that u picked the wrong turbo for ur expectations. IMO! Do u have an upgraded FMIC?
it might be the cams... havent really seen any results with them... besides evom

[MR. Birdie]

let me see.... what should I do.

[atlvalet]

From the results I've seen with the S1 cams, I have been underwhelmed (but that's just me). Considering how good the stock 9 cams seem to be, I would think you need to get more aggresive...like the Cossies which have 11mm of lift.

[atlvalet]

BTW, why did you not get the Cossies?

[earlyapex]

Yes I have the HKS EVC boost controller that is why alfred is able to seet it low at 16psi. I'm starting to debat to go with the GT3076 now.


Wait, these results are with 16psi?

[trinydex]

Well just to let you guys known, during the tuning procoess Alfread was amaze that the car made 324whp at 16lbs of boost. I'm starting to think that the cams might have some type of effect. What do you guys think? I really want to swap out the GSC cams with stocker now and find out what is not doing it job. If its the turbo then im going GT series, if its the cams then i might go with cosworth 272/272 set up.
no ^ results were

[1WkdEvo]

Yeah, is this at 16psi? If so, then you have a LOT more room for power. Why not 23 or higher??? Triny, he never stated final psi for the tune if different than 16.

[statix]

Im only qouting what you said you where going to do in another Socal thread, so, maybe you should have thought about those 100 dollar bills coming out your ass before you made those statements.......

yes that's the thing, I'm trying to save money on tuning the vehicle twice since I dont have hundread dollar bill coming out my butthole. =)

I'm also considering swaping out the cams back to stock and see what happends.

[Smogrunner]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...

[1WkdEvo]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand. Which is why I wouldn't have "Upgraded" to it personally, but still not bad numbers. Anyone have confirmation of boost yet???

[statix]

23psi

[trinydex]

i bet it's like 21-22

[kimletrim]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand. Which is why I wouldn't have "Upgraded" to it personally, but still not bad numbers. Anyone have confirmation of boost yet???


Exactly...

Was it worth $1,700.00!? and that's not even counting the cams.

[statix]

Theres no need to bet, I know for a fact it was tuned @23psi, speculation over...

[MR. Birdie]

That's correct what statix stated. The final 355whp was tuned on 23psi. I'm just stating that during the tuning process this turbo made an increditable 324whp at 16lbs. The thing what I don't understand is adding an additional 7lbs that it only need 30whp. I should've record the dyno run because this turbo is so loud its crazy. I can hear this thing spool like it wants to keep on going and going.

Ok my next mod im thinking about doing is Meth injection. I need to talk to alfred about this and see how this turbo perform. There a guy on EvoM that did flow test on this turbo. He log that this turbo flow up to 48.9lb/min. Give or take it very similar to a 50 trim turbo flow rate. If this turbo was design to run 25psi then i'll get the meth and give this bad boy a shot. If it doesn't perform up top with high boost then this turbo is a waste of time.

[*chris*]

why not just throw a few gallons of 100 in the tank to test that out? instead of shelling out for meth injection...

[atlvalet]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand.


You don't understand crap. Have you even seen a picture of a stock turbine wheel compared to the one that's on this turbo? Obviously not. I suggest calling up FP and sharing your opinions. I'm sure they'll be amused.

[trinydex]

pics here

[MR. Birdie]

The wheels are much bigger then the evo 8 and 9. That is the reason why it is capable of flowing 49lb/min. Anyone know what is a good meth kit to go with? I really want to feel this turbo on high boost. I don't want to jump the gun and go GT30 turbo.

[1WkdEvo]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand.


You don't understand crap. Have you even seen a picture of a stock turbine wheel compared to the one that's on this turbo? Obviously not. I suggest calling up FP and sharing your opinions. I'm sure they'll be amused.


Thanks for your helpful insight.Â* As I stated, it was from what I understood.Â* I wasn't stating it as fact.Â* I was trying to state that the difference between this and the stock turbo was less than the difference between a stock turbo on the IX and a 3076, which is what he is trying to compare his numbers to.

Calm the fuck down and provide helpful insight without being an asshole.Â* If it is significantly different, then provide the data and take the comment in the proper context, rather than using someones statement to show how cool and condescending you can be.

All you had to say was something like..."Â* Actually the stock turbine is moderately to significantly smaller than the one on the fp"Â* As such I would expect better numbers from this upgrade"Â* See how easy it is to be helpful and educational without being a dick

[MR. Birdie]

I'm going to try to get hold of Alfred again and take his offer in coming back for a 100 octane mix with 91 to see if this turbo can produce at 25+. If I get the numbers I want on this octane with the respond of a stock turbo then im all for meth injection.

[1WkdEvo]

Good luck man, I know Alfred will get the most out this mod for you, he's the man!

[Smogrunner]

The fact that Mr. Birdie is running a high flow cat and the stock intercooler should not be overlooked. Just add a testpipe and this car would be close to 370whp. I would never have guessed it would make more than that. I give these mods a definite thumbs up.

[MR. Birdie]

I'm to scared to run a test pipe since if you get cought with it on then bye bye car. Thanx smog!

[atlvalet]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand.


You don't understand crap. Have you even seen a picture of a stock turbine wheel compared to the one that's on this turbo? Obviously not. I suggest calling up FP and sharing your opinions. I'm sure they'll be amused.


Thanks for your helpful insight. As I stated, it was from what I understood. I wasn't stating it as fact. I was trying to state that the difference between this and the stock turbo was less than the difference between a stock turbo on the IX and a 3076, which is what he is trying to compare his numbers to.

Calm the fuck down and provide helpful insight without being an asshole. If it is significantly different, then provide the data and take the comment in the proper context, rather than using someones statement to show how cool and condescending you can be.

All you had to say was something like..." Actually the stock turbine is moderately to significantly smaller than the one on the fp" As such I would expect better numbers from this upgrade" See how easy it is to be helpful and educational without being a dick


You're welcome. You obviously understood little about this turbo. Trying to apply revisionist history and imply this comment ("This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand") was really supposed to be this comment ("I was trying to state that the difference between this and the stock turbo was less than the difference between a stock turbo on the IX and a 3076") is patently disingenuous.

You went off half-cocked about a turbo you really didn't do any research on. I did provide helpful insight, and Davy supplied the pictures. For some reason, everyone loves to get in on the circle jerk about how bad the FP stock-based turbos are when they really have no idea what they're talking about.

[fusionchicken]

first off thank you to Vien for taking the plunge and using his IX as the first Evo in socal to test out the 20g-lt...

i agree with smoggy about the test pipe, at this power output a HFC would restrict the airflow going through the exhaust considerably....an upgraded FMIC shold help as well, as well as any other bolt-on's you can think of to squeeze all the power u can get out of this...

[GokuSSJ4]

first off thank you to Vien for taking the plunge and using his IX as the first Evo in socal to test out the 20g-lt...

i agree with smoggy about the test pipe, at this power output a HFC would restrict the airflow going through the exhaust considerably....an upgraded FMIC shold help as well, as well as any other bolt-on's you can think of to squeeze all the power u can get out of this...


thats good about the test pipe since it will yield higher results.. but why the FMIC ??? theres plenty of evos that have had great results without one... example Angies car
she made near 341whp on 91 pump, stock FMIC ... i can imagine by adding the 20g L will do.... but thats another story.. also the power band looks great, but for the amount of $$$$ it seems like very poorly gains.. and it doesnt show what mainly created the gains.. could of been the turbo or the cams... :?

[atlvalet]

Time will tell, however, people besides David Buschur have had good gains with the turbo. See the thread on EvoM regarding Dyno4mance's experience and the good things Andrew had to say about it :)

[GokuSSJ4]

Time will tell, however, people besides David Buschur have had good gains with the turbo. See the thread on EvoM regarding Dyno4mance's experience and the good things Andrew had to say about it :)
my main concern with this thing would be the results on 91 octane and not what people back east can do!
same thing was said about the WR... not the greates power band ever.... at least in my situation

[atlvalet]

I blame your cams :)

[1WkdEvo]

For what it is worth, Mr. Birdie's car has the highest 91 octane numbers of any "stock/ish" turbo Evo 8 or 9 that I ever recall being dynoed. Let's not get the lynch mob out quiet yet...


^+1, This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand.


You don't understand crap. Have you even seen a picture of a stock turbine wheel compared to the one that's on this turbo? Obviously not. I suggest calling up FP and sharing your opinions. I'm sure they'll be amused.


Thanks for your helpful insight. As I stated, it was from what I understood. I wasn't stating it as fact. I was trying to state that the difference between this and the stock turbo was less than the difference between a stock turbo on the IX and a 3076, which is what he is trying to compare his numbers to.

Calm the fuck down and provide helpful insight without being an asshole. If it is significantly different, then provide the data and take the comment in the proper context, rather than using someones statement to show how cool and condescending you can be.

All you had to say was something like..." Actually the stock turbine is moderately to significantly smaller than the one on the fp" As such I would expect better numbers from this upgrade" See how easy it is to be helpful and educational without being a dick


You're welcome. You obviously understood little about this turbo. Trying to apply revisionist history and imply this comment ("This turbo isn't much different than the stock 9 from what I understand") was really supposed to be this comment ("I was trying to state that the difference between this and the stock turbo was less than the difference between a stock turbo on the IX and a 3076") is patently disingenuous.

You went off half-cocked about a turbo you really didn't do any research on. I did provide helpful insight, and Davy supplied the pictures. For some reason, everyone loves to get in on the circle jerk about how bad the FP stock-based turbos are when they really have no idea what they're talking about.


At least this was a well thought out response. Your assertion reagrding my "half Cocked" statements are not acurate, but at least you took the time to provide a good analysis of your thoughts and mine. In my initial comment I was referencing Smoggies comment above, which was almost identical to mine. I was not slamming the turbo, in fact if you read all my comments I have said not bad numbers, but I would not "upgrade" to this unit. While you can certainly disagree with my statements, unless you have mind reading capabilities you simply cannot know exactly what the totality of my thoughts were when I made such a brief statment.

The intent of my statement was only to agree with Smoggie regarding how little this differs from the stock turbo and how as such, the numbers were not bad. If you disagree I have no problem with that, what is frustrating is the method in which you communicated such.

Disagree and explain, but why be such an asshole about it?

[MR. Birdie]

I'm not sure If its even worth it to run a test-pipe snice if you get cought with one its pretty game over for you. The more I look into at my mods, it does seem like my gains are some what expected were it should be since the 20G only shines at high boost. I just took a chance in seeing if this turbo can produce good numbers on low boost.

[BHCevo]

Your numbers are what I understand are to be expected on this turbo on 91 octane.

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your cams. They give you your flatter, less peaky, torque curve.

My understanding is that these turbos only really shineÂ* on 100+ octane or meth.

Of course...the stock turbo will show huge improvements on 100+octane/meth....something to keep in mind before upgrading. But whats done is done.

Looking at your dynocurve it looks like you got a nice fat torque bump pretty much everywhere. I'm sure this car pulls quite a bit harder with stock like spool. Thats real nice. You might want to exert some expectation management and enjoy the real gains you got.

[Smogrunner]

Birdie,
I agree with you on the catalytic converter, but technically, you are still subject to the huge fine for NOT running the OEM one.... I personally appreciate your regard for following the spirit of the law though... O0

[MR. Birdie]

Thanx smoggy. I'm thinking of upgrade to a FMIC and still debating about test-pipe. How much power can a test pipe really add over a HFC? I doubt the gains are that huge and not worth it. So far I'm looking at FMIC and Perrin Meth kit with failsafe.




Birdie,
I agree with you on the catalytic converter, but technically, you are still subject to the huge fine for NOT running the OEM one.... I personally appreciate your regard for following the spirit of the law though... O0

[beavis4g63t]

I would look into upgrading the intercooler. Has anybody made this power on pump gas on the stock intercooler? I would do some research. Maybe you are reaching or surpassing the effectiveness of the stock intercooler. If anyone can chime in with some info that would be good. Most people upgrade the intercooler before or with a turbo upgrade so your situation might be unique.

[fusionchicken]

birdie, a test pipe will yield higher peaks, not by much, but will most likely lift your power curves higher, esp. for mid-range and top end....get the RRE rally cat so at least it looks like a stock cat :D

[MR. Birdie]

LOL true chicken.

[Luxury Broker]

the rre cat might be the answer for you to keep the popo at bay

[MR. Birdie]

Yeah, the more I look into this I have come to the conclusion that the stock intercool might be kicking my ass. What I wonder is Niesi intercooler good for road racing since its a bar and plate type.

[statix]

Niesi is probably a bit large for the stock turbo, there are plenty of bar and plate intercoolers out that would work better with a stockish turbo....

[MR. Birdie]

I decied to go with the Blitz intercooler that is due because tube and fin provide cooling passage to the radiator and trannmission that is very important for road racing.

[trinydex]

can you take pics of it before you put it on. inside and out?

[GokuSSJ4]

do you think an intercooler will make that much of a difference on a stock modify unit ? i mean, wont this affect your spool as well by making the car a bit more lag on the bottom end? IMO before you start adding additional parts to compensate the #s that aren't really there. you should find out what really is making the power and what isn't.

[MR. Birdie]

Well the 20G-LT is rated 49lb/min so by far it flow much more air then the stock unit. All the 20G-LT dyno people are on upgrade intercoolers already. What bothering me is that the fact during the process of tuning we were making the same power as my pervious set up at 16lbs. Something is restricting the turbo from making power. Adding 7lbs of boost and picking up 20whp seem to be odd. Its either I have reach the stock intercooler efficienty or something else is wrong.

[GokuSSJ4]

Well the 20G-LT is rated 49lb/min so by far it flow much more air then the stock unit. All the 20G-LT dyno people are on upgrade intercoolers already. What bothering me is that the fact during the process of tuning we were making the same power as my pervious set up at 16lbs. Something is restricting the turbo from making power. Adding 7lbs of boost and picking up 20whp seem to be odd. Its either I have reach the stock intercooler efficienty or something else is wrong.
might be the cam profile as well... good low end and mid range and no top end....
doing a 100 octane map would help you determine whether this set up can make a good amount of power or not.. since accordinly to the information that has been posted on this turbo, it needs a good amount of boost to shine..
you should look into your set up issues before you start buying other things in order to make more power...

[MR. Birdie]

I am going back to put on some good gas to see how it perform. But regardless im goign to get a intercooler because If i do sell this turbo and opted to go with a bigger turbo. I'm going to need a FMIC regardless. I'll keep you guys posted.

[MR. Birdie]

I also talk to Greg from GSC and he noted that the S1 cams are good up toward the powerful im looking at, which is roughly 450whp-500whp. Anything higher he stated to go with the S2 cams.

[GokuSSJ4]

I also talk to Greg from GSC and he noted that the S1 cams are good up toward the powerful im looking at, which is roughly 450whp-500whp. Anything higher he stated to go with the S2 cams.
has he give you any comments or pointers on why the car made such power ????

[MR. Birdie]

Yeah he did and told me that it could be just the gas. He didn't know that I was still on stock intercooler and suggest I listen to David from buschur to upgrade to a more efficient intercooler. I also talk to many different people and it seem that alot of people that upgrade their turbo do not run the stock intercooler. Like I state it could be the gas or the intercooler that is cause my car to pull back timming due to the heat that is enter into the engine. I think i'll be able to pick up some horsepower but not to the point where i can hit 400whp. But regardless it be more then enough for me and help out alot.

[MR. Birdie]

I need to talk to alfred more about it and see if I can come in and do some baseline run or does he need to re-tune my car again with the intercooler.

[trinydex]

Well the 20G-LT is rated 49lb/min so by far it flow much more air then the stock unit. All the 20G-LT dyno people are on upgrade intercoolers already. What bothering me is that the fact during the process of tuning we were making the same power as my pervious set up at 16lbs. Something is restricting the turbo from making power. Adding 7lbs of boost and picking up 20whp seem to be odd. Its either I have reach the stock intercooler efficienty or something else is wrong.
might be the cam profile as well... good low end and mid range and no top end....
doing a 100 octane map would help you determine whether this set up can make a good amount of power or not.. since accordinly to the information that has been posted on this turbo, it needs a good amount of boost to shine..
you should look into your set up issues before you start buying other things in order to make more power...
doing a 100 map if his top end is corked would be a waste... but it would be one way to find out, antoher way is to just bolt on the intercooler nad put on dyno.

[MR. Birdie]

Well the 20G-LT is rated 49lb/min so by far it flow much more air then the stock unit. All the 20G-LT dyno people are on upgrade intercoolers already. What bothering me is that the fact during the process of tuning we were making the same power as my pervious set up at 16lbs. Something is restricting the turbo from making power. Adding 7lbs of boost and picking up 20whp seem to be odd. Its either I have reach the stock intercooler efficienty or something else is wrong.
might be the cam profile as well... good low end and mid range and no top end....
doing a 100 octane map would help you determine whether this set up can make a good amount of power or not.. since accordinly to the information that has been posted on this turbo, it needs a good amount of boost to shine..
you should look into your set up issues before you start buying other things in order to make more power...
doing a 100 map if his top end is corked would be a waste... but it would be one way to find out, antoher way is to just bolt on the intercooler nad put on dyno.



Yeah i'm thinking of droping the intercooler and seeing what it would do.

[AWDTURBO]

any updates??

[MR. Birdie]

Yeah I know, just wanted to give this turbo a shot. Like I say if it doesn't do well after my FMIC is install and tune again, I'm going to go with the Burschur 3065 or 3076.

[DC_TypeR]

Sounds like a plan...

Let me know if you want to get rid of it, and for how much, i might be willing to take this off your hands...

-Chris

[BHCevo]

I dunno....

Putting in 100 octane and checking the power (plus tune) seems entirely more sensible than
slapping on new hardware.

I'd be surprised if a new intercooler solved your power issues. Keep in mind vendors want to sell you stuff. No offense.

Oh...and putting in a few gallons of 100 octane is A LOT faster, easier, and cheaper than dropping in a new intercooler.

Yeah...as mods go an intercooler swap is on the "easier" side. Everything is relative however...and compared to filling up the gas tank it is still a pain in the ass.

The quality of the fuel is integral to your ability to make power. The quality of your intercooler...less so.

Exploring the limits of your tune at high octane is an incredibly nformative exercise and will tell you craploads about where your car is at power wise. It should be a GIVEN that a serious tuning effort or a problem solving
effort will involve some high octane testing.

In any case best of luck to the OP. Keep us posted.

[MR. Birdie]

Thanx for the comment bro. I'll keep you guys update for sure.

[trinydex]

the thing is raising the boost will only make the setup spike higher. everyone knows what the result of that will be. what's not known is if the intercooler is posing a restriction in heat dissipation or flow.

[BHCevo]

My understanding was that a bigger/better intercooler mostly just kept colder longer, compared to our stock unit.

This was mostly important if you were flogging the car for a bit...say road racing, boosting like mad on the freeway and/or super hot day. Then yeah could be a big deal.

A difference in performance based on this effect would be small during an 8 sec dyno run. I believe.

The lessened FLOW restriction at high engine speeds, although real, is not gonna account for the large difference in power and torque the OP is seeing.Â* I believe.

The torque/horsepower effect should be similar to that observed by putting on a bigger exhaust, untuned.

Anyway...I could be wildly wrong in practice here but I believe as far as the theory goes I'm on the right track.

I'll be very very very interested if the intercooler and the intercooler only turns out to be the missing 30ft-lbs.

Oh...and im NOT saying that an fmic isn't hugely important to good power. What I AM saying is that our stock unit already does a pretty darn good job. I think.

If anyone could point to me a dyno study...back to back, stock fmic versus biggie fmic. What I don't want to see is stock fmic plus stock tune versus biggie fmic plus new tune. What I would like to see is stock fmic + new tune versus biggie fmic + new tune v2.

[trinydex]

limit in flow is the only thing that could account for such a big hp discrepency. same type of flow restriction that people see when they have a corky catback, or a cat instead of dp at high boost.

[BHCevo]

Man I keep meaning to swap in a straight pipe for my hi flow cat and seeing if it really gives me 10ft-lbs from midrange on. I'm kinda motivated to do it now actually.

Purely in the interest of science.

[BHCevo]

Haha...here's a coincidence for ya.

Last week my beater golf stopped making any power above half throttle. Zip. Nada. I couldn't break 65mph on the freeway where the week before I would cruise at 80.

So I take it to my german beater mechanic and ask him to look at it. Oh, and smog it too while you're at it.

Next day he tells me: "can't smog it because that rattling noise is the interior of your cat all broken into pieces. Its not making any power because your broken cat is completely blocking the exhaust flow."

Anyone know a place I can find an oem working cat for an '85 golf?

[MR. Birdie]

I'll be at Tuning Technologies for a another re-tune on 91 and hopefully on race gas. This time with a * Gutted HFC, Blitz intercooler *. The appointment is for Feb 4th. I'll keep you guys up to date on this one. If this make good power with higher octane, I'm going to keep it and run 100% meth with high boost.

[alan678]

i am going in on June 2nd for a 111oct race gas tune...i will let you know how she turns out!