Is Minimum Wage Cutting It?

[Granny Shifter]

I never really thought about it until recently. In my english course curiculum, we are reading a book called "Nickel and Dimed". It talks about how a journalist tries to go through life with minimum wage and to her utter disappointment, is not able to cut it. I also watched the show 30 days with the guy from "Super Size Me" and he tried to do this with his fiance for 30 days. This unfortunately did not work well as he wasn't even able to cover all his expenses. It was interesting to know that minimum wage has not increased since the nineties, yet the standard of living has dramatically increased. Just recently, minimum wage was increased ever so slightly. The bill to increase it every year has been declined numerous times and is considered detrimental to companies because they might fall apart if they cannot be supported with cheap workers. If America is the richest country, shouldn't we have a higher standard of living for the lower class? I'm just ranting...

[IguessNot]

this year it went up to 7.50

[ryan0]

learn a skill.. get paid.

simple.

why should i subsidize you cause your 'skill' is fries?

[Granny Shifter]

What about the unskilled in America? What about foreigners?

[DTunedEvoX]

I personally dont think Minimum Wage cuts it- but it really does depend on your lifestyle and cost of living in your immediate area. That and how comfortable you want to live ...

[ryan0]

I personally dont think Minimum Wage cuts it- but it really does depend on your lifestyle and cost of living in your immediate area. That and how comfortable you want to live ...


it doesnt cut it.. its not supposed to cut it.. its there to motivate you to get skills and get a better job..

if youre a lazy fuck who wants to flip burgers your whole life.. why should i pay to make sure you can live the dream?

[ryan0]

What about the unskilled in America? What about foreigners?


get a skill.. arnold is the governor for christ sakes.

get off your ass.. read a book.. go to school.. learn a trade...

[gen4k20a2]

So true....you make what you make because its what you are worth. You make 21k a year cause...well thats what you knowledge is worth. The more rare your talent or harder to learn your skill is then you make more money.

[EVOL EDO]

useless tards should make whatever people are willing to pay them. it already bugs me that gratuity has become expected regardless of service to people that work at restaurants. if you suck at serving dont expect a tip. and stupid restaurants shouldnt add gratuity to your bill its supposed to be given for good service not mandatory. and if you are a tard that isnt getting payed enough get a union job then you can be as useless as you want to be.

[gen4k20a2]

question have you worked in a restaurant?

[Terry S]

If America is the richest country, shouldn't we have a higher standard of living for the lower class?

Do you think the rest of the world let us be the richest country because they felt sorry for us or do you think it was from hard, skilled work?

If you want to see what it's like to live in a country where noones skills and education are considered special, then go move to one of the european socialist countries. I believe it was Denmark that has 75% income tax so that EVERYONE can go through life on government minimums if they desire. They also publicly announce your yearly income every year.

Terry S

[Terry S]

useless tards should make whatever people are willing to pay them. it already bugs me that gratuity has become expected regardless of service to people that work at restaurants. if you suck at serving dont expect a tip. and stupid restaurants shouldnt add gratuity to your bill its supposed to be given for good service not mandatory. and if you are a tard that isnt getting payed enough get a union job then you can be as useless as you want to be.


Gratuity is a stupid ideal, true. But not having one in the food industry would lead to MANY more health issues since the inspiration to do a good job is basically taken away.

Terry S

[MRevo9]

If America is the richest country...


unfortunately this is false....

as of my knowledge its Dubai

[EVOL EDO]

i u



useless tards should make whatever people are willing to pay them. it already bugs me that gratuity has become expected regardless of service to people that work at restaurants. if you suck at serving dont expect a tip. and stupid restaurants shouldnt add gratuity to your bill its supposed to be given for good service not mandatory. and if you are a tard that isnt getting payed enough get a union job then you can be as useless as you want to be.


Gratuity is a stupid ideal, true. But not having one in the food industry would lead to MANY more health issues since the inspiration to do a good job is basically taken away.

Terry S


i understand that, my point was it should not become expected. Â*it should be service based like it was when it started. Â*it feels more that it is mandatory now and some restaurants will automatically add it with parties as small as 4 or 5. Â*if the most you do is take someones order and bring them their food you shouldnt expect a tip. Â*i have no problem tipping someone that deserves it because they gave me good service. Â*however, if they only give me my food, dont refill my water, and i have to hunt them down for 15 minutes to get a check why should i tip them. Â*because it has become expected i think it already has taken away from the inspiration to do a good job.

[MRevo9]

If America is the richest country...


unfortunately this is false....

as of my knowledge its Dubai


sorry its Luxembourg

[gen4k20a2]

Ok ive been working in the restuarant biz for 8 years. From a host to now a bartender for a majority of those years. Im telling you if tipping wasnt involved you would only see me like 2-3 times. This is all my company (who will remain nameless) requires us to acutally do. The rest is a good service standard that they want us to do but not part of the requirements. If i wasnt being tipped id give you your value of minimum wage service, McDonalds style. You want to sit down and have everything brought to you....either pay more for food thus we get paid more or tip us out accordingly. The job is MUCH harder than you think it is. Youd be amazed the type of shit we have to deal with. Some of it is unbelieveable. Probably one of the worst customer service job you can have...people are the pickeist about their food.

If restuarant employees didnt get tipped out....trust me you wouldnt want to eat out at a restaurant anymore. Health issues only deal with the backof house...tips have no bearing really on that.

You want to know what a server/bartender thinks....let me find the server manafesto.

[ryan0]

Im telling you if tipping wasnt involved you would only see me like 2-3 times.


then you should be fired and someone willing to take my order 5 times should be hired.. being a bartender beats flipping burgers.. im sure i could find a burger flipper willing to do your job, for your pay, better than you.

[gen4k20a2]

trust me you wouldnt....they realize it wasnt worth the money QUICK. You obviously have never worked in the industry.

I am willing to put my cash on it that you wouldnt find a LEGAL employee that would be willing to do what i do day in and day out for that pay and at the same quality.

I didnt say anything about taking an order 5 times. I said you would only see me 2-3 times.

You abviously dont have ANY clue what your talking about

[ryan0]

trust me you wouldnt....they realize it wasnt worth the money QUICK. You obviously have never worked in the industry.

I am willing to put my cash on it that you wouldnt find a LEGAL employee that would be willing to do what i do day in and day out for that pay and at the same quality.

I didnt say anything about taking an order 5 times. I said you would only see me 2-3 times.

You abviously dont have ANY clue what your talking about


bartending is a high turn over job.. sounds glamourous.. but actually its not.. so like you said.. people realize its not worth the money real quick.. but for some reason you havent.

this is why you see all the bartender schools on TV.. you can be replaced at any time.. dont kid yourself.. theres a 1000 people out there with 'bartending degrees' who havent figured out how bad it sucks yet.

and yes.. i have no idea what im talking about.

[x[corwyn]]

useless tards should make whatever people are willing to pay them. it already bugs me that gratuity has become expected regardless of service to people that work at restaurants. if you suck at serving dont expect a tip. and stupid restaurants shouldnt add gratuity to your bill its supposed to be given for good service not mandatory. and if you are a tard that isnt getting payed enough get a union job then you can be as useless as you want to be.


This must be from someone that has never worked in a restaraunt. I'll just start by saying I hate cheap fucks and any person who remotely complains about tipping is a cheap ass. I also think just about every person who complains about tipping never has worked in a restaraunt. If you dont like tipping dont accept the service. Take the food home and eat it. Then clean up after yourself. Seriously. The waiter/waitress gets minimum wage, and works themselves till they are pretty sore serving food and getting what you need. It is VERY hard work. And you dont have to clean up after yourself even after making a pig and messing things up. Its a good thing Elena hasnt seen you say that. She would be livid. She has to deal with no tippers a lot in LA County. Hopefully I can get her to work in an OC restaraunt.

Lets put it another way. The restaraunts pay a minimum wage to have staff on hand to serve you. The staff however are serving YOU and your liason to the restaraunt which you have to pay for. Again if you dont want that service, get fast food or eat at home. The only other acceptable way to pay for these people is to have the restaraunts raise their prices to pay for the service. At least now you have a choice to determine what you pay. 15% is the minimum. Just double whatever the tax is for those of you with low math skills. Also remember your tip is split up sometimes 3 ways. The nice clean table you got to beforehand? The busboy did that. The cooks that made your food? And then of course the person hustling your food around. Even for poor service I still give 15% unless its exceptionally poor and then I use my best judgement. Also remember the things that a restaraunt does or has issue with should not be reflected in the tip. The restaraunt doesnt give a damn what you tip your server. You are only punishing the innocent and someone that probably went to bat for you to try to get you what you wanted. For great service I tip 25%. Why? Because I worked my way up. When I had my really shitty nights valeting, a good tip made the difference for my whole night.

[ryan0]

]You are only punishing the innocent


the "innocent" need to understand that they have a shitty job.. with shitty pay.. and shouldnt figure tips into their 'salary'.. if you get a tip.. you should be grateful

[x[corwyn]]

]You are only punishing the innocent


the "innocent" need to understand that they have a shitty job.. with shitty pay.. and shouldnt figure tips into their 'salary'.. if you get a tip.. you should be grateful


Tips IS part of the salary. Every description of the job is minimum wage plus tips. I cant believe tipping is an issue to you cheap asses. Its simple. If you dont want to tip, dont accept the service because when you are accepting the service you are accepting the fact that you will have to pay for it.

I think some people need to be thrown from their high horse to feel what its like to have to work up to a decent job. Some people are spoiled little bitches.

[ryan0]

]
Tips IS part of the salary. Every description of the job is minimum wage plus tips. I cant believe tipping is an issue to you cheap asses. Its simple. If you dont want to tip, dont accept the service because when you are accepting the service you are accepting the fact that you will have to pay for it.

I think some people need to be thrown from their high horse to feel what its like to have to work up to a decent job. Some people are spoiled little bitches.


hahaha.. youre calling others 'spoiled bitches' when you EXPECT a tip?

there are alot of people who 'service' others in their jobs.. but they dont get tipped.. why not?

gra·tu·i·ty /grəˈtuɪti, -ˈtyu-/
–noun
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.

a gift.. without demand.

why dont hash slingers understand this?

i tip if service is good.. i tip well if service is great.. but dont expect it.

[gen4k20a2]

trust me you wouldnt....they realize it wasnt worth the money QUICK. You obviously have never worked in the industry.

I am willing to put my cash on it that you wouldnt find a LEGAL employee that would be willing to do what i do day in and day out for that pay and at the same quality.

I didnt say anything about taking an order 5 times. I said you would only see me 2-3 times.

You abviously dont have ANY clue what your talking about


bartending is a high turn over job.. sounds glamourous.. but actually its not.. so like you said.. people realize its not worth the money real quick.. but for some reason you havent.

this is why you see all the bartender schools on TV.. you can be replaced at any time.. dont kid yourself.. theres a 1000 people out there with 'bartending degrees' who havent figured out how bad it sucks yet.

and yes.. i have no idea what im talking about.


You obviously have NO clue what you are talking about and im going to prove it.


bartending is a high turn over job.. sounds glamourous.. but actually its not.. so like you said.. people realize its not worth the money real quick.. but for some reason you havent.
Bartending pays me more than my GF that does stem cell research at CHOC hospital and she has 2 BS degrees and 2 minors. Â*Along with that it becomes worth the money when tipping is involved. Thats why people try to be bartenders. Its not a high turn over job really....go to your restaurant of choice and ask how long they have been there...try to find someone thats been with the company less than 2 years. Itll be hard. Along with this not one person i work with find it as their career at all. Im about to graduate with a CS degree and a Web and technology literacy minor. Serving is a high turn over job, hosting is a VERY high turn over job. The most rookie bartender at my work has been with the company 4 years....me 8. Since i was in high school. Sounds REAL quick turnover to me. Â*I never said the job was glamourous but thats not what im there for....im there to make money. And i make a great deal or i would be there, i wouldnt own an evo i wouldnt be able to live the way i do.


this is why you see all the bartender schools on TV.. you can be replaced at any time.. dont kid yourself.. theres a 1000 people out there with 'bartending degrees' who havent figured out how bad it sucks yet.
Anyone can be replaced at anytime from any job...that argument makes NO sense what so ever. You dont need to got to bartending school for 99% of bartending jobs. Again proof you have no idea what you are talking about. If there are 1000 people out there with bartending degrees...how many restaurants you think there are? There are more than 1000 in SoCal alone.


and yes.. i have no idea what im talking about.
I hope ive shown you have no idea what you are talking about because everything youve said so far...makes no sense

[x[corwyn]]

]
Tips IS part of the salary. Every description of the job is minimum wage plus tips. I cant believe tipping is an issue to you cheap asses. Its simple. If you dont want to tip, dont accept the service because when you are accepting the service you are accepting the fact that you will have to pay for it.

I think some people need to be thrown from their high horse to feel what its like to have to work up to a decent job. Some people are spoiled little bitches.


hahaha.. youre calling others 'spoiled bitches' when you EXPECT a tip?

there are alot of people who 'service' others in their jobs.. but they dont get tipped.. why not?

gra·tu·i·ty /grəˈtuɪti, -ˈtyu-/
–noun
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.

a gift.. without demand.

why dont hash slingers understand this?

i tip if service is good.. i tip well if service is great.. but dont expect it.


Service. Key word. Dont want to pay for it? Dont use the service. It is a (wait for it...) service. Its not free. You want free? Go back to your Momma's kitchen.

[gen4k20a2]

ps....ryan0 the word tip comes from "To Insure Promptness" look it up if you dont believe me

[ryan0]

Bartending pays me more than my GF that does stem cell research at CHOC hospital and she has 2 BS degrees and 2 minors.

Anyone can be replaced at anytime from any job...that argument makes NO sense what so ever. If there are 1000 people out there with bartending degrees...how many restaurants you think there are? There are more than 1000 in SoCal alone.


you missed the forest..

research work doesnt pay well either.. so bad example.

i mentioned the bartender school because if they are advertising on TV.. there is demand.. which means a lot of losers want to go there and try to serve drinks.

i know that the 'diplomas' dont mean shit to a restaraunt owner.. but again.. you missed the point.

also.. the 1000 was a nice round number.. you missed it too.. so say 10,000... say 100,000.. same point..

my point was.. you never see 'bartender' on a nice business card.. you be happy with what you haev now.. but you should be learning other skills in the meantime so you can get a job that doesnt rely on tips.

[ryan0]

]
Service. Key word. Dont want to pay for it? Dont use the service. It is a (wait for it...) service. Its not free. You want free? Go back to your Momma's kitchen.


hahah.. no.. you get paid minimum wage to provide the service.. i provide the tip, as a gift 'over and above'.. focus, slow down, read..

[ryan0]

ps....ryan0 the word tip comes from "To Insure Promptness" look it up if you dont believe me


and if its not 'prompt'.. you dont get a tip.. and tip is just a made up word cause servers cant pronounce gratuity.. :)... like cop.

[gen4k20a2]

Can i ask what you do to make money?

[ryan0]

Can i ask what you do to make money?


technical stuff..

but i had shit jobs.. i lived on mac n cheese.. making so little made me want to learn a skill.. so i learned something instead of bitching about what i was entitled to.

[x[corwyn]]

]
Service. Key word. Dont want to pay for it? Dont use the service. It is a (wait for it...) service. Its not free. You want free? Go back to your Momma's kitchen.


focus, slow down, read..



Probably should read your own words then go back. If people don't tip however, you will be forced to pay via higher prices with your food order.

Irregardless if you dont like the system and dont want to pay. Dont use it. Its simple. Eat at home. Its not free, and it shouldnt be free. Not to mention even when I had to live on the street, I never did a dine and dash. I also still tipped. I have never felt I was above that system and since Mr. Nooneshouldgethandoutsbutworkforaliving doesnt want to subsidize the minimum wage nor raise it, I suggest making those tips, nice and fat.

[gen4k20a2]

You assume that people in that industry are idiots. Yet you time and time again are proving you are the idiot. Every single person i work with is getting a higher education (college or in high school with plans of college). Â*Just because someone advertises something on TV doesnt mean that there is demand. With the diploma comment your point was to prove that anyone can take my job and i proved you that it wasnt needed for one and secondly i proved its not a highly rotating position. My proof was myself and everyone else in the bar. Your proof...a TV commercial.

The service that minimum wage pays for is putting in your food and bringing it out. THATS IT. You want more...well thats what tip pays for. You want your drink refilled by me....thats where tip comes in.

You used 1000. So i used it. You just cant pick any arbitrary number for that arguement because then your premise makes no sense.

Of course you dont see bartender on a business card...because there is no need for a business card. If i worked 8 hours a day all week 12 months out of the year id make 70k. I go to school so thats not what i do. If if i wanted to deal with the stress of that job...i could and id make decent money. More than alot of people with business cards

[gen4k20a2]

Can i ask what you do to make money?


technical stuff..

but i had shit jobs.. i lived on mac n cheese.. making so little made me want to learn a skill.. so i learned something instead of bitching about what i was entitled to.


technical stuff...ive never heard of a job like that.

And again you assume im uneducated yet im sure my formal qualifications out weigh yours.

You obviously cant grasp the concept around what me and many others are proving. Your rebuttles are mindless and make no sense. You seem to not grasp the concept of "you pay for what you get".
I work as a bartender and make more than anyone near my age that i know and its deserved. You dont get that because youve never delt with it.

[ryan0]

]
Probably should read your own words then go back. If people don't tip however, you will be forced to pay via higher prices with your food order.

Irregardless if you dont like the system and dont want to pay. Dont use it. Its simple. Eat at home. Its not free, and it shouldnt be free. Not to mention even when I had to live on the street, I never did a dine and dash. I also still tipped. I have never felt I was above that system and since Mr. Nooneshouldgethandoutsbutworkforaliving doesnt want to subsidize the minimum wage nor raise it, I suggest making those tips, nice and fat.


you sound like the idiots who say that lettuce will be $20 a head if there are no illegal mexicans to pick it.

believe me.. i would still get cheap food if i didnt tip..

and about the second paragraph.. i could finish reading it cause i couldnt get past "Irregardless".

[x[corwyn]]

Can i ask what you do to make money?


technical stuff..

but i had shit jobs.. i lived on mac n cheese.. making so little made me want to learn a skill.. so i learned something instead of bitching about what i was entitled to.


When was this? The dark ages? Back in the 50s or 60s? Times are very tough right now for people making less than $20 an hour here. Just in the last 2 years things COLA has gotten a lot higher here. People that came up in the 50's,60's,70's or 80's have no idea how hard it is now compared to then. Back then you could live off of minimum wage. If you have a minimum wage job now, then you have 2 or 3 jobs. A college education, or even a high school education made sure you have a decent enough job to get by, live and put food on the table. Nowadays? We have to have both the husband and wife work sometimes 3 jobs between them just to have a place to live and food on the table...and they have respectable jobs, and decent pay. Just not in comparison to the COLA thats now here.

[ryan0]

Every single person i work with is getting a higher education (college or in high school with plans of college).


thank you.. that was the entire point of this thread.

better yourself... dont complain about not being paid enough for a menial job.

[ryan0]

You obviously cant grasp the concept around what me and many others are proving.

You seem to not grasp the concept of "you pay for what you get".

I work as a bartender and make more than anyone near my age that i know and its deserved. You dont get that because youve never delt with it.


you not proving anything.. you took the job for $x.. if youre lucky you get tips..

its not my duty to subsidize your wage.. be grateful.. dont expect it.

[x[corwyn]]

]
Probably should read your own words then go back. If people don't tip however, you will be forced to pay via higher prices with your food order.

Irregardless if you dont like the system and dont want to pay. Dont use it. Its simple. Eat at home. Its not free, and it shouldnt be free. Not to mention even when I had to live on the street, I never did a dine and dash. I also still tipped. I have never felt I was above that system and since Mr. Nooneshouldgethandoutsbutworkforaliving doesnt want to subsidize the minimum wage nor raise it, I suggest making those tips, nice and fat.


you sound like the idiots who say that lettuce will be $20 a head if there are no illegal mexicans to pick it.

believe me.. i would still get cheap food if i didnt tip..

and about the second paragraph.. i could finish reading it cause i couldnt get past "Irregardless".


LOL if you read anything I say, I am very anti-illegals.

I really think you are a close minded dufus who watches way too much TV and talk radio. You have a very closed, and uncompassionate mind. You don't really see much more than what is in your own closed sphere. I know most of us including me live in our own worlds...but I believe a lot of us are willing to grow, and hopefully have a bit more compassion for their fellow man.

As for technical work. I have no idea what I would trust to you that would be technical. I bet you are probably a PHB (Pointy Haired Boss) somewhere. Already risen to the point beyond his abilities.

[ryan0]

]
People that came up in the 50's,60's,70's or 80's have no idea how hard it is now compared to then.


hahahaha.. i remember whan minimum wage was like $3 in the late 80s.. everyone thinks their generation has it the hardest... too funny.

[EVOL EDO]

like i said i have no problem tipping for service, i have left a 15 dollar tip on a 20 dollar meal. and i have only left no tip once. Â*i have a problem with the people that expect a tip for doing the minimum. Â*my problem comes from expecting a tip just for doing their job. Â*their job is to take my order and get me whatever i need. Â*if they do a piss poor job at it why should they be rewarded. Â*if i have to hunt them down to ask for water or napkins or the check they shouldnt get a big tip if even a tip at all. Â*if they go out of their way then they deserve the extra. Â*doing the bare minimum means you should get the bare minimum which is your wage.

[ryan0]

i have a problem with the people that expect a tip for doing the minimum. my problem comes from expecting a tip just for doing their job.


exactly!

how can it be so easy for some people to understand and others to miss completely?

[x[corwyn]]

]
People that came up in the 50's,60's,70's or 80's have no idea how hard it is now compared to then.


hahahaha.. i remember whan minimum wage was like $3 in the late 80s.. everyone thinks their generation has it the hardest... too funny.


I remember minimum wage being $3.90 too. I also remember $3.90 being worth a helluva lot more than the $5.15 is now. COLA. here is the definition for you... http://www.investorwords.com/1159/Cost_of_Living_Adjustment.html .

[ryan0]

]
I remember minimum wage being $3.90 too. I also remember $3.90 being worth a helluva lot more than the $5.15 is now. COLA. here is the definition for you... http://www.investorwords.com/1159/Cost_of_Living_Adjustment.html .


if you havent advanced with the COL.. then move to arizona.

dont make me pay more taxes so you can live in so cal and do a shit job.

[gen4k20a2]

You obviously cant grasp the concept around what me and many others are proving.

You seem to not grasp the concept of "you pay for what you get".

I work as a bartender and make more than anyone near my age that i know and its deserved. You dont get that because youve never delt with it.


you not proving anything.. you took the job for $x.. if youre lucky you get tips..

its not my duty to subsidize your wage.. be grateful.. dont expect it.

Too bad thats not how the industry works.

YOU ASSUME I TOOK THE JOB FOR $X. On the contrary i didnt. I took the job for X + tips. My wage is for exactly what you get at McDonalds. You want anything more than that....thats the tip part. My job is to serve you food then pay you out. THATS IT. You want refills? You want to take the rest home? You want me to get you this that and the other....in your world...its not my problem cause my job title doesnt include that. That is going above and beyond what my job title describes.

[evolution05mr]

im rich biatch.......honk honk...

[gen4k20a2]

The problem you have is you dont grasp the concept of what the job entails. This most likely stems from you constantly going to a restaurant and getting it done no matter.


Try this:
Go to a restaurant and tell your server you arent going to tip them before you order anything. See what happens. Tell them you are serious that you arent going to tip them a dime. See what happens. Then youll know the difference.

[ryan0]

YOU ASSUME I TOOK THE JOB FOR $X. On the contrary i didnt. I took the job for X + tips. My wage is for exactly what you get at McDonalds. You want anything more than that....thats the tip part. My job is to serve you food then pay you out. THATS IT. You want refills? You want to take the rest home? You want me to get you this that and the other....in your world...its not my problem cause my job title doesnt include that. That is going above and beyond what my job title describes.


haha.. no its not.. i guaranty that you job description says bring me food and make me happy.

if you took the job expecting tips.. then do a good job.. and ill tip you.. .

[x[corwyn]]

i have a problem with the people that expect a tip for doing the minimum. my problem comes from expecting a tip just for doing their job.


exactly!

how can it be so easy for some people to understand and others to miss completely?


Because a tip is still a required payment for services rendered. I cant believe I have to say this yet again. You accepted the service. You have to pay for it. If you dont like the service then complain to their boss. Hell tell the server immediately why you are upset. Sometimes the answers might surprise you... Such as way more people came in that day than they usually get and were staffed for. You going to punish the server for that? I would say 99% of the time if there is a problem with service its usually something out of their control. Hell they might even comp you on something if you are polite enough about it.

[ryan0]

Try this:
Go to a restaurant and tell your server you arent going to tip them before you order anything. See what happens. Tell them you are serious that you arent going to tip them a dime. See what happens. Then youll know the difference.


why do you think i dont tip?

like i said.. if you do your job well.. ill tip you.. but it shoudl not be expected.

[EVOL EDO]

if your title is waiter. Â*that means your job title is to wait on me. Â*like i said there are people that dont get refills and get other stuff and still expect the tip thats where the problem comes. Â*and the service is what you are payed to do. Â*the tip is given for good service. Â*it is extra to say you did a good job. not extra for doing your job.

[ryan0]

]
Because a tip is still a required payment for services rendered.

You accepted the service.

You have to pay for it.


hahaha.. i paid the restaraunt for the service rendered.. if you were a good little host.. you got a tip.. not because its 'required'..

[gen4k20a2]

Try this:
Go to a restaurant and tell your server you arent going to tip them before you order anything. See what happens. Tell them you are serious that you arent going to tip them a dime. See what happens. Then youll know the difference.


why do you think i dont tip?

like i said.. if you do your job well.. ill tip you.. but it shoudl not be expected.


im not saying you dont tip...im challenging youre idea of what the minimum wage pays for.

[gen4k20a2]

thats a way for you to find out

[ryan0]

im not saying you dont tip...im challenging youre idea of what the minimum wage pays for.


the minimum wage pays for you to do the job thats expected of you.. you knew that going in.

yell at your boss if youre not happy with it..

you dont actually believe that my tip is payment for bringing me a drink do you?.. thats insane.

[EVOL EDO]

tipping is customary for good service. it is not required. Â*it is that logic where you think they are entitled to tips that makes them think they can get away with the minimum. Â*it is not an entitlement it is a gift. Â*do your job well and you get the tip.

[gen4k20a2]

im not saying you dont tip...im challenging youre idea of what the minimum wage pays for.


the minimum wage pays for you to do the job thats expected of you.. you knew that going in.

yell at your boss if youre not happy with it..

you dont actually believe that my tip is payment for bringing me a drink do you?.. thats insane.


Like your 1000 example...its just and example...its not limited to that

Think of it this way.

You go to a fast food place. Is your experience the same at a restuarant? (Alot of fast food places pay more than minimum wage.)
Of course its not the same. Someone is doing all that work for you. To-go boxes, ranch, you need extra this and that. The reason that service fee is decided by the patron is because not all service is equal. So get bad service tip less, good service tip more, average then tip about 15%. Thats how the system works. Thats how its setup, you dont like it....tough shit, dont got to a restaurant. Thats how it is. The industry allows the guest to decide what they should pay for the service.

[RPD_FKTARD]

hmm... so it's against the law if you don't tip?

[ryan0]

Thats how its setup, you dont like it....tough shit, dont got to a restaurant. Thats how it is. The industry allows the guest to decide what they should pay for the service.


heh.. if that were the case.. i wouldnt be able to leave the restraunt with out tipping.

it would be stealing, and id go to jail. but thats not what happens.

you boss/industry has convinced you of that so he doesnt have to pay you more.

lets pretend you work in a office building.. and your computer breaks... some little azn IT dude comes all the way to your floor.. all the way to your cubicle and fixes the computer while you wait.. do they deserve a tip?

[gen4k20a2]

hmm... so it's against the law if you don't tip?

No by allowing the guest to choose the amount they give up teh right to force it on them.

It is when its added to the bill. Large party and your restaurant adds it to your bill. Try walking out with out paying that and see if its against the law.

[gen4k20a2]

Thats how its setup, you dont like it....tough shit, dont got to a restaurant. Thats how it is. The industry allows the guest to decide what they should pay for the service.


heh.. if that were the case.. i wouldnt be able to leave the restraunt with out tipping.

it would be stealing, and id go to jail. but thats not what happens.

you boss/industry has convinced you of that so he doesnt have to pay you more.

lets pretend you work in a office building.. and your computer breaks... some little azn IT dude comes all the way to your floor.. all the way to your cubicle and fixes the computer while you wait.. do they deserve a tip?


Ok office building example. Is he paid minimum wage? No...his service is included in his salary thus no need to tip. The company pays him enough not to

[ryan0]

It is when its added to the bill. Large party and your restaurant adds it too your bill. Try walking out with out paying that and see if its against the law.


im pretty sure its added to the bill as a 'convienience'.. i would be curious to see if you could not pay it.

[EVOL EDO]

just because your base pay is the same as fast food doesnt mean a thing. Â*your job title and description is still different. Â*which means your job is different. Â*it may be more work for the same pay there is nothing wrong with that. Â*the difference comes from it being customary to tip waiters so you can make more. Â*again it is CUSTOMARY. not required. Â*its simple do your job well. and you get tipped. Â*and again it should not be expected just because you make minimum wage. Â*it is not everyone elses job to subsidize your pay for your bad performance because you expect a tip regardless.

[gen4k20a2]

see you pretty sure....im 100% cause im in the industry. Thats why they put a disclaimer on the menu. People have tried to sue the company i work for, for discrimination because of stereotyping. Thus we either put it on all large parties or on none. The servers decided none as they over 15% out weighed the under 15%

[ryan0]

Ok office building example. Is he paid minimum wage? No...his service is included in his salary thus no need to tip. The company pays him enough not to


so if he was paid minimum wage, yould tip him?

you took the job.. not me.. dont expect more salary cause you brought me food.

[gen4k20a2]

The field isnt setup that way thus there is no need. But if it were like that you wouldnt think not to.

[x[corwyn]]

I found this here http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_TipsAndGratutities.htm


Q. Is a mandatory service charge considered to be the same as a tip or gratuity?


A. No, a tip is a voluntary amount left by a patron for an employee. A mandatory service charge is an amount that a patron is required to pay based on a contractual agreement or a specified required service amount listed on the menu of an establishment. An example of a mandatory service charge that is a contractual agreement would be a 10 or 15 percent charge added to the cost of a banquet. Such charges are considered as amounts owed by the patron to the establishment and are not gratuities voluntarily left for the employees. Therefore, when an employer distributes all or part of a service charge to its employees, the distribution may be at the discretion of the employer and the service charge, which would be in the nature of a bonus, would be included in the regular rate of pay when calculating overtime payments

If you look at most restaraunt's rules or information they will have posted that there is a service charge for bartenders and servers.

[gen4k20a2]

Ok office building example. Is he paid minimum wage? No...his service is included in his salary thus no need to tip. The company pays him enough not to


so if he was paid minimum wage, yould tip him?

you took the job.. not me.. dont expect more salary cause you brought me food.

Do you tip when you go out to eat at a restaurant?

[x[corwyn]]

It is when its added to the bill. Large party and your restaurant adds it too your bill. Try walking out with out paying that and see if its against the law.


im pretty sure its added to the bill as a 'convienience'.. i would be curious to see if you could not pay it.


See my previous post.

[x[corwyn]]

Ok office building example. Is he paid minimum wage? No...his service is included in his salary thus no need to tip. The company pays him enough not to


so if he was paid minimum wage, yould tip him?

you took the job.. not me.. dont expect more salary cause you brought me food.


I'll make sure to forward any information about you to the servers and managers that I know of in the area. There is also a policy that they have the right to refuse service. I think being a cheap bastard and crappy to wait staff would qualify for thus.

[ryan0]

OK.. the only way to legally do that is to call it a 'service charge'.. it is not a tip.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_TipsAndGratutities.htm

[ryan0]

]
I'll make sure to forward any information about you to the servers and managers that I know of in the area. There is also a policy that they have the right to refuse service. I think being a cheap bastard and crappy to wait staff would qualify for thus.


BUAHAHAH!.. i've just been threatened to be put on a restaraunt black list by a server?

ahahahaha.. thats new.

[ryan0]

]
I'll make sure to forward any information about you to the servers and managers that I know of in the area. There is also a policy that they have the right to refuse service. I think being a cheap bastard and crappy to wait staff would qualify for thus.


hahahaha.. im sorry.. i had to quote it again.. i cant stop laughing..

"YOU'LL NEVER EAT IN THIS TOWN AGAIN!"

BAHAHAHAHAHA

[gen4k20a2]

]
I found this here http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_TipsAndGratutities.htm


Q. Is a mandatory service charge considered to be the same as a tip or gratuity?


A. No, a tip is a voluntary amount left by a patron for an employee. A mandatory service charge is an amount that a patron is required to pay based on a contractual agreement or a specified required service amount listed on the menu of an establishment. An example of a mandatory service charge that is a contractual agreement would be a 10 or 15 percent charge added to the cost of a banquet. Such charges are considered as amounts owed by the patron to the establishment and are not gratuities voluntarily left for the employees. Therefore, when an employer distributes all or part of a service charge to its employees, the distribution may be at the discretion of the employer and the service charge, which would be in the nature of a bonus, would be included in the regular rate of pay when calculating overtime payments

If you look at most restaraunt's rules or information they will have posted that there is a service charge for bartenders and servers.

Thank you for finding info about the service charge.

OK in the end a TIP is voluntary it is. Is it expected. Yes. You dont like that we all know. Sucks but it is. Â*I myself try to give 110% to each guest thus i expect them to tip accordingly because i went above and beyond. I want that cash so I do what i can to earn. Larger tables usually dont tip cause they dont like to see 40 50 or what ever going to just that even though its the percentage. Thats why service charges are applied so the server get that percentage. if it wasnt expected the company wouldnt do it.

I think ryan0 wants Â*a system like in England and the like...where service charge is included in the bill period

[ryan0]

I myself try to give 110% to each guest

I think ryan0 wants a system like in England and the like...where service charge is included in the bill period


then you would get a good tip from me..

and no i dont.. i just want servers to understand taht they are not 'entitled' to a tip.

[gen4k20a2]

No server would serve so bad knowingly that they would deserve 0 tip. No one would do that.....thus something is expected

[HOCKEY FREAK4]

Unfortunately
I make minimum wage
But its my first job and i am only 16
And i only have to pay for my cars gas and the rest goes towards savings and MODS lol

[x[corwyn]]

]
I'll make sure to forward any information about you to the servers and managers that I know of in the area. There is also a policy that they have the right to refuse service. I think being a cheap bastard and crappy to wait staff would qualify for thus.


hahahaha.. im sorry.. i had to quote it again.. i cant stop laughing..

"YOU'LL NEVER EAT IN THIS TOWN AGAIN!"

BAHAHAHAHAHA


The actual quote is "No Soup for You!"

I like how *I* am a server because I actually tip and think anyone that doesnt is a cheap bastard. LOL

[EVOL EDO]

I myself try to give 110% to each guest

I think ryan0 wants a system like in England and the like...where service charge is included in the bill period


then you would get a good tip from me..

and no i dont.. i just want servers to understand taht they are not 'entitled' to a tip.


absolutely and if you give me 110% i will tip accordingly. Â*on the other hand do you think horrible servers should get tipped the same as you for doing nothing just because they feel they are entitled to a tip for doing the minimum of their job?

[x[corwyn]]

OK.. the only way to legally do that is to call it a 'service charge'.. it is not a tip.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_TipsAndGratutities.htm


Look at the menus when you go in. It specifies it at most decent eating establishments.

[gen4k20a2]

I myself try to give 110% to each guest

I think ryan0 wants a system like in England and the like...where service charge is included in the bill period


then you would get a good tip from me..

and no i dont.. i just want servers to understand taht they are not 'entitled' to a tip.


absolutely and if you give me 110% i will tip accordingly. Â*on the other hand do you think horrible servers should get tipped the same as you for doing nothing just because they feel they are entitled to a tip for doing the minimum of their job?

Thats why im saying that 99.99% of the time the server does a job that would at least deserve the average of OC of 15-18% esp at my company. Thus its exepected.

[x[corwyn]]

I myself try to give 110% to each guest

I think ryan0 wants a system like in England and the like...where service charge is included in the bill period


then you would get a good tip from me..

and no i dont.. i just want servers to understand taht they are not 'entitled' to a tip.


absolutely and if you give me 110% i will tip accordingly. Â*on the other hand do you think horrible servers should get tipped the same as you for doing nothing just because they feel they are entitled to a tip for doing the minimum of their job?


Thats why you have a range. Horrible servers dont last long. If you REALLY pay attention, most of the issues you have sited are because the wait staff was understaffed that day. You think most waiters and waitresses are sitting with their thumbs up their asses? Just as a FYI I get at least as annoyed as most of you. My anger though is usually directed at the REAL cause. The restaraunt: and I complain accordingly.

[gen4k20a2]

Exactly....of all im the most critical...and ill tip BAD like 1 or 2 on 25 or 30 if service is absolutly horrid for no reason. Like someone is BS with another employee and blowing me off. Other than that i know what the person is going through to make sure im always happy and tip large

[EVOL EDO]

that may be your establishment. Â*and i have no problem tipping for good service. i have a problem tipping for bad service because it is still expected. Â*but Â*like mr pink in resevoir dogs i want my coffee filled.



I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're givin' me, I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.

[gen4k20a2]

Well thats up to you. But if you tip poorly, trust me people remember, and your personal service is hindered because of it. Most servers will take as low as they can without being complained about.

[x[corwyn]]

Well thats up to you. But if you tip poorly, trust me people remember, and your personal service is hindered because of it. Most servers will take as low as they can without being complained about.


the yremember the people that tip well and tip badly. And as they should because their money comes from that. If they know someone is a crappy tipper coming in, they do what they can to return the favor to that person, and in many ways that the person never even knows.

[gen4k20a2]

exactly. So a again a tip is expected because no one outright gives bad service. They do the best that they can and most every place is like this thus deserving a tip. Places like Dennys and stuff not so much cause they get so worked they give less quality service thus get bad tips so service is usually worse overall cause the norm is bad tips thus no motivation.

[x[corwyn]]

exactly. So a again a tip is expected because no one outright gives bad service. They do the best that they can and most every place is like this thus deserving a tip. Places like Dennys and stuff not so much cause they get so worked they give less quality service thus get bad tips so service is usually worse overall cause the norm is bad tips thus no motivation.


I tip well at a Denny's. Those people WORK and deserve every cent that comes in. I also try to make up for during my college and high school years when we were soooooo obnoxious and stayed forever in one booth getting coffee.

I was told to remind everyone that when people "Dine and Dash" the waiter or waitress has to cover that bill from what meager tips they get. That happens a lot more than most people know. Majorly f'd up.

[Blak94GSX]

Your "English" instructor should be fired for preaching propaganda and NOT teaching you ENGLISH!

[Granny Shifter]

Well, we are analyzing the style of the author's writing.

[trinydex]

Im telling you if tipping wasnt involved you would only see me like 2-3 times.


then you should be fired and someone willing to take my order 5 times should be hired.. being a bartender beats flipping burgers.. im sure i could find a burger flipper willing to do your job, for your pay, better than you.
haha sounds like a libertarian capitalist worshipper

[trinydex]

]



]
Probably should read your own words then go back. If people don't tip however, you will be forced to pay via higher prices with your food order.

Irregardless if you dont like the system and dont want to pay. Dont use it. Its simple. Eat at home. Its not free, and it shouldnt be free. Not to mention even when I had to live on the street, I never did a dine and dash. I also still tipped. I have never felt I was above that system and since Mr. Nooneshouldgethandoutsbutworkforaliving doesnt want to subsidize the minimum wage nor raise it, I suggest making those tips, nice and fat.


you sound like the idiots who say that lettuce will be $20 a head if there are no illegal mexicans to pick it.

believe me.. i would still get cheap food if i didnt tip..

and about the second paragraph.. i could finish reading it cause i couldnt get past "Irregardless".


LOL if you read anything I say, I am very anti-illegals.

I really think you are a close minded dufus who watches way too much TV and talk radio. You have a very closed, and uncompassionate mind. You don't really see much more than what is in your own closed sphere. I know most of us including me live in our own worlds...but I believe a lot of us are willing to grow, and hopefully have a bit more compassion for their fellow man.

As for technical work. I have no idea what I would trust to you that would be technical. I bet you are probably a PHB (Pointy Haired Boss) somewhere. Already risen to the point beyond his abilities.
it don't pay to use words like compassionate with him

[ryan0]

it don't pay to use words like compassionate with him


you act like you know me.. .you should stop.

[gen4k20a2]

oh no you di-ent....your talking to me like you know me o sum sing...

[trinydex]

it don't pay to use words like compassionate with him


you act like you know me.. .you should stop.
you talk like you know a lot about folks too... you should take your own medicine and shut the fuck up lil bitch.

[ryan0]

you should take your own medicine and shut the fuck up lil bitch.



hahhahaha... or else?.. are you going to beat me up too?.. and name calling?.. from a 'super jeenius'?

[silvery_eagle]

you talk like you know a lot about folks too... you should take your own medicine and shut the fuck up lil bitch.

Trinydex.... please move this thread to political area... name calling stuff just doesn't belong here now

[gen4k20a2]

Im witht he move and with triny

[trinydex]

you should take your own medicine and shut the fuck up lil bitch.



hahhahaha... or else?.. are you going to beat me up too?.. and name calling?.. from a 'super jeenius'?
oh c'mon... it's just a lil shat chattin'

[Eckolaker]

Simple Question...Should minimum wage scale with inflation?

The current US dollar has been devalued by 50% since 2000. So basically $1 now has the same purchasing power as $.50 did in 1999. Lets also take into consideration that the money supply in the US has been doubled since 2001, and is slated to be doubled again by 2008. This is also why gold has risen 180% since 2000. An ounce of gold goes for $620, and is estimated to rise upwards of $2000/ounce as the US dollar continues to decline.

I seriously doubt that any household could survive if minimum wage was $10.50, after taxes on a 40 hour work week, that equates to about $19,000 yearly. So lets do some basic math and see what we come up with. The figures I site will be more towards the low end so as to give benefit of doubt. Keep in mind this a single person living alone, who doesn't own a home.

Rent- $800/month = $9600/year
Bills(Electricity, Gas, Water) $200/month = $2400
Car(insurance, assuming car is payed off) $100/month = $1200/year
Gasoline $25/week = $1300/year
Food $25/week = $1300/year

That leaves us with $3,200 for the rest of the year for any other basic expenses that you may have. This of course doesn't include any personal hygiene items, car repairs, un-foreseen expenses, un-paid taxes, clothes, etc.

I also hate the argument that minimum wage is designed to motivate people to get a higher education. What most fail to understand is that only about 20% of jobs require some sort of a higher education. This country is kept alive by the middle class. They're the police, the fireman, the postman, the construction worker, the farmer, the plumber, etc. When was the last time you heard of someone who went to college to learn how to frame houses, or pour concrete. How about deliver your mail, or collect your garbage?

So much ignorance to go around.

[ryan0]

I also hate the argument that minimum wage is designed to motivate people to get a higher education. What most fail to understand is that only about 20% of jobs require some sort of a higher education. This country is kept alive by the middle class. They're the police, the fireman, the postman, the construction worker, the farmer, the plumber, etc. When was the last time you heard of someone who went to college to learn how to frame houses, or pour concrete. How about deliver your mail, or collect your garbage?

So much ignorance to go around.


you really think the police, the fireman, the postman, the construction worker, the farmer, the plumber all make minimum wage?

education does not alway mean college..

maybe your poli-sci teacher can give you more stuff to regurgitate here after your next lecture.

[Eckolaker]

I also hate the argument that minimum wage is designed to motivate people to get a higher education. What most fail to understand is that only about 20% of jobs require some sort of a higher education. This country is kept alive by the middle class. They're the police, the fireman, the postman, the construction worker, the farmer, the plumber, etc. When was the last time you heard of someone who went to college to learn how to frame houses, or pour concrete. How about deliver your mail, or collect your garbage?

So much ignorance to go around.


you really think the police, the fireman, the postman, the construction worker, the farmer, the plumber all make minimum wage?

education does not alway mean college..

maybe your poli-sci teacher can give you more stuff to regurgitate here after your next lecture.


Good job completely mis-understanding the point. Although, your second sentence just proves the point I am trying to make about only 20% of the jobs requiring higher education.

Further more, I am far removed from college, and I didn't major in poli-sci. My field of expertise happens to be chemistry and applied physics.

FYI, most of the jobs I listed start you out at just over minimum wage in most cases. Go get a job in construction. You'd be lucky to get over $15/hour to start. Further more, if you cut out all the jobs in this country that start at the $5.15/hour rate, say bye bye to just about everything in your life you take for granted. Not to mention that even most companies realize minimum wage doesn't cut it. I think Taco Bell starts their employees off around $6/hour.

Regardless, my point of $10.50 an hour not even getting close to cutting it is still valid...which is the average starting wage for many fields of jobs out there. None of which require anything past a high school education.

[ryan0]

Good job completely mis-understanding the point.


i dont know what your point is.. its all over the board...

if you are simply answering 'is minimum wage cutting it'?.. then i guess you (as well as everyone else here) are saying 'no'.

are you saying that employers should have to raise prices on everything so people can make $20/hr for working at taco bell?..

are you saying that its my job to support people who are happy never learning a skill/trade?

are you saying that the US should outsorce even more labor and manufacturing to foreign countries cause unskilled peolpe deserve every right to live in so cal?

[x[corwyn]]

Good job completely mis-understanding the point.


i dont know what your point is.. its all over the board...

if you are simply answering 'is minimum wage cutting it'?.. then i guess you (as well as everyone else here) are saying 'no'.

are you saying that employers should have to raise prices on everything so people can make $20/hr for working at taco bell?..

are you saying that its my job to support people who are happy never learning a skill/trade?

are you saying that the US should outsorce even more labor and manufacturing to foreign countries cause unskilled peolpe deserve every right to live in so cal?


So the dollar is devalued. Manufacturing is now outsourced to save costs. Imports are cheaper than our own domestic products, AND the imports are making more money. The dollar is weak compared to other markets. Gold price is rising exponentially. Housing is insanely high. Wages are marginally better than 90s, and in a lot of cases worse. Outsourcing our jobs is considered a valid and responsible business ethic. Health care is extraordinarily high. Gas prices are very high compared to the 90s...100% increase in costs.

Now you seem to think that 80% of the people in this country are idiots that should have a higher education and would not have to live off of minimum wage. Fair enough. Unfortunately at that point when you get the majority obtaining those degrees, they are now rendered worthless. Everyone has a degree for a small spot of those jobs. The menial jobs would still need to be done. Those jobs HAVE to be done. They are not automated. There are no magic robots to do it for us. They don't have enough illegals out there to do those jobs if that would be your solution either.

I don't like minimum wage increases. I don't like having to tell ANYONE what to do. I don't like having to regulate businesses. Any time you have to put in a law or regulation, you have added another agency upon agency and group, and oversite group to oversee it. However big business lives and dies by shareholder perception. They live and die by SHORT-TERM perception which drives me bananas. I have to deal with Sarbanes Oxley quite often now, which the entire IT industry knew about most of these issues that are now regulated and were not followed because of bean-counters. But just like everything else thats regulated there was a damn good reason.

So whats my point? Companies will refuse to do anything that will impact their bottom line. Minimum wage is minimum wage and the people getting it have to accept it or they go hungry. Alternatives are striking, and/or rioting. Since these are the majority in America it probably isnt a great idea to piss off the lower and middle class too much. French aristocracy found that out to their displeasure. Times are looking like they will get tough soon...and not just for them. The middle class has been shrinking a lot, which is always a very bad sign.

With the Cost of Living gone up so much in the last 10 years, its the right thing to do. Even with all the issues it might present.

[Eckolaker]

The average CEO makes 400 times what their employees make.

Don't tell me that a minimum wage increase would effect companies bottom lines, without first looking at the big picture. Maybe if they didn't pay the CEO's Millions a year(sometimes hundreds of millions), with multi-million dollar retirement and severance packages, these companies might be able to afford a wage increase. Instead we see corporations look to Outsource their labor to other countries.

Perfect example is Wal-Mart and Rubbermaid. We all know what products rubbermaid is responsible for.

Well long story short, Wal-Mart wanted a lower price for their rubbermaid products, well the price of resin has been extremely high. Short of it is that rubbermaid can't make the product any cheaper then they have been. So guess what, Wal-Mart sold the contract to a company in China. It just so happens that this company also was the chief purchaser of rubbermaid's specialized forming machines. So this company will make the same product for dollars cheaper per piece due to China's abundant source of slave labor.

For the record, the American labor force is the world leader in production.

[x[corwyn]]

The average CEO makes 400 times what their employees make.

Don't tell me that a minimum wage increase would effect companies bottom lines, without first looking at the big picture. Maybe if they didn't pay the CEO's Millions a year(sometimes hundreds of millions), with multi-million dollar retirement and severance packages, these companies might be able to afford a wage increase. Instead we see corporations look to Outsource their labor to other countries.

Perfect example is Wal-Mart and Rubbermaid. We all know what products rubbermaid is responsible for.

Well long story short, Wal-Mart wanted a lower price for their rubbermaid products, well the price of resin has been extremely high. Short of it is that rubbermaid can't make the product any cheaper then they have been. So guess what, Wal-Mart sold the contract to a company in China. It just so happens that this company also was the chief purchaser of rubbermaid's specialized forming machines. So this company will make the same product for dollars cheaper per piece due to China's abundant source of slave labor.

For the record, the American labor force is the world leader in production.


Unfortunately that is EXACTLY what the issue is. CEOs are making exponentially more money now than they were just 15 years ago. Its gotten out of hand. I'm not entirely sure what CAN be done at this point short of regulating that which, is completely against the capitalist model. What REALLY gets me is the CEOs that come in, slash a company's workforce, still turns a loss, and gets a MAJOR payout. I can do that for half the price. I promise. You want me to lose employees, AND lose money for the company, and will hand me millions and millions of dollars. Nooooooo Problem.

[trinydex]

haha... i don't even wanna tell you guys the debate i had with my housemate last week then. he assures me that if you let capitalism run unregulated the world will be a better place.

[x[corwyn]]

haha... i don't even wanna tell you guys the debate i had with my housemate last week then. he assures me that if you let capitalism run unregulated the world will be a better place.


It sure will be. If you are the one that has all the money. Id like that job please. I swear I'll "trickle down" the money.

[trinydex]

hahaha until, of course, giving away money becomes unprofitable capitalist king sir.

[x[corwyn]]

hahaha until, of course, giving away money becomes unprofitable capitalist king sir.


At that point you have to give money to make money!!!!

[Eckolaker]

Capitalism can work wonderfully, when properly regulated.

The problem with capitalism is that this is not the case or current state of our system.

Perfect example...Lobbyists.

Nuff said

[trinydex]

i was talkin' about unregulated... so that has nothing to do with what i said.