My IX dyno'd at TT

[909Evo]

Got the IX dyno'd yesterday at Tuning Tech... it was hotter than balls outside 97 degrees, and the tune was 91 octane.

Motor Mods:
TBE (Greddy Ti, +custom DP and TP)
Intake (AEM Short Ram)
Fuel pump (Walboro 255)
Blitz SBCI-D
GSC 280/280 (non s-1) cams

Overall 333.19whp and 319.24wtq, the car needed injectors and thats next on the list...

Alfred and his cronies did a great job as usual. Its always a pleasure doing business with those guys as they seem to go outta their way to help me out. But I'll save the backslapping for the TT section of the boards.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/12544/normal_Dyno%20web.jpg

[Evo8you]

Go for the 780's




Paul

[trinydex]

non blurry pic please

[MR. Birdie]

Yup a set of injectors would be a good investment.

[Boosted]

Do you ever stop complaining? its not that hard to understand the information in the picture...

[Evolved524]

niceeee... how does it feel?

[kimletrim]

Glad you had a great experience with TT. Can you tell us what the smoothing factor was on that dyno sheet....its kinda blurry

[909Evo]

Glad you had a great experience with TT. Can you tell us what the smoothing factor was on that dyno sheet....its kinda blurry


4

yea I know.... I only have a 50 prime lens on the camera right now... so I just snapped a pic of the sheet, then with downsizing the quality so i can post it, the pic took a hit.

[LiquidLife]

HEY! I was over there last weekend at TT, Alfred was telling me about tuning your Evo, awesome stats! If only it was cool out huh? NICE!

I was over there getting my MBC put on, I'll be back in a few weeks to get TT's stage 1.

[usmc0311]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.

[LiquidLife]

Exact same mods? *Sniff Sniff* Sounds like *Cough* Bull shit!

[EvoPwr]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors

[EvoPwr]

Exact same mods? *Sniff Sniff* Sounds like *Cough* Bull shit!


with injectors it is not bullshit. also if it wasnt as hot it would have been higher.

[LiquidLife]

That's what I'm saying, with the exact same MODS, it's bull shit.... hahaha

[LiquidLife]

:crazy2:

hahaha, I guess I can hear through my nose

[statix]

Nice #'s, although it doesnt seem the cams did anything for you.

[LiquidLife]

He would more like 320 whp without them, i think they did something, the heat didn't help either.

[Alfred@TTech]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


Im about done with all your random, ignorant comments, stay off our threads PLEASE.

Tom purchased the old GSC cams not the S1's, hence the slightly lower numbers in 100 degree heat. It did great for such basic mods. Enjoy Tom.

Alfred

[LiquidLife]

See? ^

[usmc0311]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors


FYI, injectors are only needed to make power when using with SAFC for timing advance purpose or you're making over 360whp which leave your stock injectors duty cycle to about 96-97%. When flash the timing are change directly.

[EvoPwr]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors


FYI, injectors are only needed to make power when using with SAFC for timing advance purpose or you're making over 360whp which leave your stock injectors duty cycle to about 96-97%. When flash the timing are change directly.


FYI, the car needs bigger injectors :roll: you should never base mods on your WHP, remember every dyno is different :uglystupid2: So by his dyno what is the duty cycle of the stock injectors?

[LiquidLife]

ERRR!

[usmc0311]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors


FYI, injectors are only needed to make power when using with SAFC for timing advance purpose or you're making over 360whp which leave your stock injectors duty cycle to about 96-97%. When flash the timing are change directly.


FYI, the car needs bigger injectors :roll: you should never base mods on your WHP, remember every dyno is different :uglystupid2: So by his dyno what is the duty cycle of the stock injectors?


FYI this was even posted by their own people.



Countless Evos for four years around the country have made 370whp + on the stock injectors without problem. It is very easy to see when a car is out of injector when it is on the dyno.

As we all know, our Evos come with 560cc injectors. I've seen an '03 Evo with a 3076 turbo kit run around on Denso 660cc injectors making (dynojet) 480+ whp and 430+ wtq as his daily driver and it lasted til he wrecked it a year later. David Buschur, someone I don't normally team up with, has reported similar results several times on his forums and on Evom.

I made 585whp/527wtq on 880s, yet I've seen people falsely (IMHO) say they were near 100% duty cycle with 1000cc injectors while making 120whp/150wtq less than me. (I'm sure they believed they were maxed out 'cuz their ems said so, or maybe they just had really innefficient injectors drivers or some such problem).

A lot of the hype around getting bigger injectors is for vendors to make money off of you. This vendor push was furthered by the love of the SAFC by many SoCalEvo folks. I've seen it work so I'm not bashing it. The bigger injectors were an easy way to get around boost cut while fooling the un-tuned ECU into providing more ignition advance. With the advent of the affordable ECUFlash, bigger injectors are no longer necessary for any of these reasons.

[EvoPwr]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors


FYI, injectors are only needed to make power when using with SAFC for timing advance purpose or you're making over 360whp which leave your stock injectors duty cycle to about 96-97%. When flash the timing are change directly.


FYI, the car needs bigger injectors :roll: you should never base mods on your WHP, remember every dyno is different :uglystupid2: So by his dyno what is the duty cycle of the stock injectors?


FYI this was even posted by their own people.



Countless Evos for four years around the country have made 370whp + on the stock injectors without problem. It is very easy to see when a car is out of injector when it is on the dyno.

As we all know, our Evos come with 560cc injectors. I've seen an '03 Evo with a 3076 turbo kit run around on Denso 660cc injectors making (dynojet) 480+ whp and 430+ wtq as his daily driver and it lasted til he wrecked it a year later. David Buschur, someone I don't normally team up with, has reported similar results several times on his forums and on Evom.

I made 585whp/527wtq on 880s, yet I've seen people falsely (IMHO) say they were near 100% duty cycle with 1000cc injectors while making 120whp/150wtq less than me. (I'm sure they believed they were maxed out 'cuz their ems said so, or maybe they just had really innefficient injectors drivers or some such problem).

A lot of the hype around getting bigger injectors is for vendors to make money off of you. This vendor push was furthered by the love of the SAFC by many SoCalEvo folks. I've seen it work so I'm not bashing it. The bigger injectors were an easy way to get around boost cut while fooling the un-tuned ECU into providing more ignition advance. With the advent of the affordable ECUFlash, bigger injectors are no longer necessary for any of these reasons.



I bet bigger injectors would make a difference.

[leaveit2bevo]

if your running into 97-98 idc on stock injectors and you upgrade to 720cc+ you will make more power because your have more head room for tuning.

[GokuSSJ4]

only 333whp with cams ? umh. Other evos making 340 to 360whp. But long as you are happy that's all it matters.


he doesnt have injectors


FYI, injectors are only needed to make power when using with SAFC for timing advance purpose or you're making over 360whp which leave your stock injectors duty cycle to about 96-97%. When flash the timing are change directly.
theres a thread in Norcal , bryan@ GSC did the tuning and found near 10whp by adding injectors into the mix (tune via carebare loll) Open ecu + , and there new way of controlling boost..

[Smogrunner]

Bigger injectors don't make more power. I've said it before and I'll say it forever. If they can provide all the fuel your engine needs under any conditions, they are big enough. I understand the need for A LITTLE headroom for folks making over 370whp/360wtq. Injectors don't need a lot of headroom - they don't burn out. If you go bigger, do it only when you need to and save your money.

909Evo, did Alfred say anything to you that it was out of fuel? Nines may be a bit different than 8s and of course we run richer on 91 so who knows. But my gut says you had fuel left.

[GokuSSJ4]

Bigger injectors don't make more power. I've said it before and I'll say it forever. If they can provide all the fuel your engine needs under any conditions, they are big enough. I understand the need for A LITTLE headroom for folks making over 370whp/360wtq. Injectors don't need a lot of headroom - they don't burn out. If you go bigger, do it only when you need to and save your money.

909Evo, did Alfred say anything to you that it was out of fuel? Nines may be a bit different than 8s and of course we run richer on 91 so who knows. But my gut says you had fuel left.
:roll:
here is some one with proof that thinks other wise



For the past number of months since we've been tuning the EVO9, we've for the most part been stuck at stage 1.

-3" Turbo Back Exhaust (or 2.75 dp for quicker transient response)
-Drop in filter
-Manual boost controller
-optional Walboro fuel pump
-Reflash

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/dynocharts/jan/Stage1.JPG

This combination with the "correct" exhaust usually results in the dyno sheet above with approximately 290 wtq and 290 whp on a Mustang or Dyno Dynamics Dyno, correlating to high 11's and low 12's in the quarter mile.Â*

Choosing the right exhaust is absolutely essential for top end power on any EVO. The exhaust should have minimal restrictions, and the clearance between the down pipe and transmission assembly must be clear from any contact to avoid phantom knock being picked up by the engine control computer. If your exhaust rattles you are losing power.

The highest flowing and most powerful exhaust would of course be a straight unrestricted tube with zero bends, but of course that would be impractical, but compromises made for sound control also compromise hp.

In my experience tuning EVO's I would rank the following recommended (based upon power ) exhaust in the following order.

Tied for first -Greddy Titanium ( light weight / expensive / loudest )
Tied for first -JIC Titanium ( beautiful exhaust / most expensive / not that loud / light weight )
2nd - Garage HRS ( unique styling and sound / quiet / no drone )
3rd- Carbon Ti HKS ( small neck down at flange )
4th- Greddy EVO2 ( more aggressive look / very quiet )
5th- Apexi Noir ( stealthy look / quietest )

These exhaust have no problems making power and have great fit and finish.Â*

For downpipes I recommend

Tanabe 2.75" for best torque and transient response on pump 91 octane
Perrin 3" for max top end and race gas tune

Of course people are welcome to buy any exhaust they like, and there have been instances where even EBay exhaust have had good results, but if your car doesn't make what it should I would suspect the exhaust setup.

So that in a nutshell is stage 1.Â* Since our procurement of our AWD Dyno Dynamics we have increased our commitment to find affordable upgrades to push past our current stage.Â* Below is our most current findings on how to make horsepower.

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/dynocharts/jan/Stage1+.JPG

End result is a gain of approximately 8 whp and 8 wtq gains.

Added 720cc denso injectors and ECU rescaling.

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/dynocharts/jan/Stage1_D.JPG

Super imposed Stage 1 w/ Stage 1 + injectors.

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/dynocharts/jan/boostafr.JPG

Boost was unchanged. Fueling was remapped to accomidate the 720's.

Stay tuned to this thread as we find new developments.




http://www.norcalevo.net/forum/index.php/topic,15865.0.html

[EvoPwr]

Bigger injectors don't make more power. I've said it before and I'll say it forever. If they can provide all the fuel your engine needs under any conditions, they are big enough. I understand the need for A LITTLE headroom for folks making over 370whp/360wtq. Injectors don't need a lot of headroom - they don't burn out. If you go bigger, do it only when you need to and save your money.

909Evo, did Alfred say anything to you that it was out of fuel? Nines may be a bit different than 8s and of course we run richer on 91 so who knows. But my gut says you had fuel left.
:roll:
here is some one with proof that thinks other wise



http://www.norcalevo.net/forum/index.php/topic,15865.0.html




Thanks goku

[Smogrunner]

Goku,
Are you kidding me? Look at that air/fuel curve. It is COMPLETELY different. Also, as you know, bigger injectors effect timing. I'll bet my left buttcheek that the difference there is fueling and timing. NOTHING to do with the injectors themselves.

Get Alfred, Martin Musial, Shiv, Scot Gray, and Sean Ivey to admit that bigger injectors, BY THEMSELVES, make more power than smaller ones and I'll admit that I may be wrong. Now, if the smaller injectors were going static (REALLY maxed out), then larger ones would allow for more headroom to add boost and fuel. The added power shown in that dyno chart could have been achieved with careful fueling and timing changes with the smaller ones.

[909Evo]

I guess I shoulda read this thread more often...

Yea Tom, Alfred said the car was running out of fuel, and I needed to buy injectors... am i expecting to see much if any of a gain? Nope. But I'll slap them on their with an 02 housing, and some IC piping, maybe even a full IC, then have it re-tuned. I'm really hoping to pull 350+whp on 91 octane. And I'm really really hoping that it can be done without swapping out my gsc for cossie cams.... as its not cheap to install cams.

[Smogrunner]

I guess I shoulda read this thread more often...

Yea Tom, Alfred said the car was running out of fuel, and I needed to buy injectors... am i expecting to see much if any of a gain? Nope. But I'll slap them on their with an 02 housing, and some IC piping, maybe even a full IC, then have it re-tuned. I'm really hoping to pull 350+whp on 91 octane. And I'm really really hoping that it can be done without swapping out my gsc for cossie cams.... as its not cheap to install cams.


OK, if Alfred said it was running out of fuel, then it was. Not common at your hp level, but certainly possible. I'll leave this debate at that. Cheers everyone.

[ApexThs]

Hate to say it 909EVO, you are not going to get to 350+ with those mods. I just got tuned yesterday with all of that. Here is a list of my mods:

GSC 280/280 Cams
APR Head Studs
1.2mm Head Gasket
Walbro Fuel Pump
780cc injectors
AMS Fuel Rail
Fuel Pressure regulator
GT Spec Turbo Manifold
Invidia O2 Housing, DP, TP, and Cat-back
AMS FMIC
INJEN Intake and LICP/UICP
Boost Controller, set at 24.2psi
AMS motor mounts and Transmission mount

I made 338 WHP and 332 TQ on 91. I was hoping for 350+ as well. On a good note, the cams that we have are not meant for the stock turbo. They work best with a 30 or 35 series turbo. Once we get that far, we will see a lot better numbers. Also, if you want to make more power, you can do what I'm doing. I'm getting the head port and polished, getting valve springs put in, oversized vavles, intake manifold, throtle body, a lighter pulley, and eventually an EMS (When they get the buggs worked out) With all of that, I should get to about 360HP and 350TQ.

[atlvalet]

On a good note, the cams that we have are not meant for the stock turbo.

Then how would you explain the performance of the Cosworth MIVEC cams? You have an Evo 9, right?

Why spend all that money on a port and polish when you could just upgrade to the Cosi cams? And maybe even put on a 65mm TB?

[smokinevo9]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .

[Evo8urv8]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?

[smokinevo9]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.

[Evo8urv8]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

[smokinevo9]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

3076DBB

[Evo8urv8]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

3076DBB

Oh coolio. U got the same turbo like Alfred then eh? And your 430 whp on 91, did u get it tuned yet for 100?

[slorice]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

3076DBB

Oh coolio. U got the same turbo like Alfred then eh? And your 430 whp on 91, did u get it tuned yet for 100?

I think that is 100 octane #s. More than likely he's at 375-390 on 91 oct.

[Evo8urv8]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

3076DBB

Oh coolio. U got the same turbo like Alfred then eh? And your 430 whp on 91, did u get it tuned yet for 100?

I think that is 100 octane #s. More than likely he's at 375-390 on 91 oct.

Oh ok. Thanx for clearing it up then, man O0

[smokinevo9]

i have had my evo9 with 100 on stock turbo that Al tuned and had 367 whp .


On what mods? and what ur making now?


i had the follow.
hks exhaust cam 272
fuel pump
720 denso injectors
tbe
test pipe
safc
dejon mbc
for now thats all i could think of.

right now i have around 430whp but its getting some other shit done to it so just wait and ill have some better numbers.


Nice numbers. What turbo have on now?

3076DBB

Oh coolio. U got the same turbo like Alfred then eh? And your 430 whp on 91, did u get it tuned yet for 100?

I think that is 100 octane #s. More than likely he's at 375-390 on 91 oct.

thank you sir 4 explaining

[Evo8urv8]

Hows the lag on the 3076? Not bad compared to, say, GT35?

[smokinevo9]

Hows the lag on the 3076? Not bad compared to, say, GT35?

i have no stroker right now so there are some lag and i have also been in a evo with 35 and to be honest i like 3076 alot more.....imo

[Evo8urv8]

Hows the lag on the 3076? Not bad compared to, say, GT35?

i have no stroker right now so there are some lag and i have also been in a evo with 35 and to be honest i like 3076 alot more.....imo


I cant imagine how the lag would suck on the 35 while driving around town. I know and heard that the 3076 is more liveable, (Alfred has one) in fact, I wanna get the 3076 down the line (after I get my clutch, hopefully)

[slorice]

Hows the lag on the 3076? Not bad compared to, say, GT35?

i have no stroker right now so there are some lag and i have also been in a evo with 35 and to be honest i like 3076 alot more.....imo


I cant imagine how the lag would suck on the 35 while driving around town. I know and heard that the 3076 is more liveable, (Alfred has one) in fact, I wanna get the 3076 down the line (after I get my clutch, hopefully)

There is always a trade off with bigger turbos. IMHO if you plan on using 91 octane the stock IX turbo and Green fp give you the best power band(area under curve lol))with the instant response that most desire. However, when you put in the good gas the bigger turbos really shine. Look at the Dyno graphs of all the 30 Rs and 35 Rs on 91 oct. ON average they only make 10-30 whp over the previous mentioned options. However, on race gas the 30R can get you anywhere fron 440 whp-500 whp,depending on gas/aggressiveness of tune. The 35 R about 30-50 whp more at the expense of a narrower power band. IMHO, the right 30 R set-up is more desirable on the stock block with the good gas. A very reliable daily driver when needed and plenty fast with decent response. Still a very well rounded car. The 35 R or above is a beast at the 1/4 mile/highway pulls on the good gas and is still a great set-up but w/o a 2.3 I think the lag and powerband is the least desirable of the other options.