Bible Info: God vs. Satan - Final Body Count

[Terry S]

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/12768/god-v-satan.png

And god wins as the greatest biblical mass murderer! Satan needs to start backing up all this talk about his "bad-ass-ness" by killing loads of people.

Terry S

[DTunedEvoX]

Dude where did you get that?

[BUDLoNG]

haha

[kEvo VIII]

Dude where did you get that?

+1

[BUDLoNG]

worship me or die!

[*chris*]

thats great terry! i love using that argument! haha

[Mokaone]

haha, saw this on digg earlier.

[NMREJ6]

wow

:-o

[chavo_del_8]

Have any of you read any of Sam Harris' work lately?

[chavo_del_8]

who were the 10 Satan killed?

[Terry S]

http://www.gospeakit.com/science/bible-body-count.html

For those that are curious about where the numbers come from, this guy already crunched all the numbers for you. He even links every reference to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible and The Brick Testament websites.

My personal favorites:

- For complaining - 14,700 killed
- Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god - 1 killed
- God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head - 42 killed
- "The Lord smote the Ethiopians." - 1,000,000 killed

ROFL

Terry S (no I dont know which 10 satan killed still)

[Miss Evo8]

I never even heard of Satan actually killing anyone.. scaring, harassing from his Demons, mayhem, plauges etc.. but never killing... anyone know of people he killed?

[RPD_FKTARD]

i thought saddam = satan... and found out that saddam died.. so i was wrong

[Miss Evo8]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:MMlsPTtxvQnZjM:http://www.southparkx.net/gallery/data/media/2/satan.jpg

[BUDLoNG]

i would also like to know who satan killed..
i didnt see that info on the site..

[Terry S]

For the inquiring minds wanting to know, i'm researching the Satan kills right now.

Terry S

[DTunedEvoX]

For the inquiring minds wanting to know, i'm researching the Satan kills right now.
Terry S

Sweet .. I believe it was mentioned in the book of job ...

[Miss Evo8]

For the inquiring minds wanting to know, i'm researching the Satan kills right now.
Terry S

Sweet .. I believe it was mentioned in the book of job ...


damn I didnt pay enough attention in Catholic school or catacism :buck2:
I will burn in hell now... but then again since Terry is still trying to find out if Satan actually killed anyone it might not be too bad....

[GokuSSJ4]

you guys are funny!! :D loll ...

[Granny Shifter]

Satan, being the prince of deception and temptation, leads people to their own demise. God is the true authority in the universe. This is assuming that God is directly correlated with the death of 2 million. Satan's influence can sway the path of those in the plan of salvation, leading them to die. In the case of Noah's Ark, people were so evil that he had to rid the world of them. Sodom and Gamorah had a similar result. I would not say that God "murdered" 2 million, but passes his full authoritive judgement upon them.

[chavo_del_8]

Satan, being the prince of deception and temptation, leads people to their own demise. God is the true authority in the universe. This is assuming that God is directly correlated with the death of 2 million. Satan's influence can sway the path of those in the plan of salvation, leading them to die. In the case of Noah's Ark, people were so evil that he had to rid the world of them. Sodom and Gamorah had a similar result. I would not say that God "murdered" 2 million, but passes his full authoritive judgement upon them.


Good answer..its quite interesting to see how people are always looking for ways to discredit God and the way he does things...The chart was quick to point out the amount of people that God killed but somehow couldn't put together the 10 that Satan did lol.

As a side note, has anyone looked up the millions (possibly billions) he has saved? just a simple question since every argument has two sidesÂ* :grin:

[Miss Evo8]

so in a nutshell God did some much needed "cleansing/ population control"
yeah....go God!

Terry any update on that Satan kill list?

[*chris*]

This is assuming that God is directly correlated with the death of 2 million.

In the case of Noah's Ark, people were so evil that he had to rid the world of them.

Sodom and Gamorah had a similar result.

I would not say that God "murdered" 2 million, but passes his full authoritive judgement upon them.

so let me get this strait... passing judgement on people and then 'ridding them' from the planet, is not killing?

so, the same could be applied in just about any other murder argument. well, i didnt kill him, i just passed judgement on him.

i love religion. seriously, 'thouh shalt not kill' ...god just broke one of his own commandments. isnt law, law? the people who write the laws, are still bound to them. and dont give me that crap god is above everything. given enough time, im sure we could create worlds.

[DTunedEvoX]

The thing is - no matter how many people you save- or help (in the case of a human) .... it only takes 1 murder to be considered a killer ...

There will always be people discrediting other people. Wheter it be god or otherwise. It comes with the territory - Theres no good if theres no evil ... Same with politics, etc- they always try to find a weakness ...

LOL I make no sense right now so I guess I'll throw this in here ..

LIFE SPELLED BACKWARDS IS EFIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (LMAO)

[Terry S]

Well damn. The guy who I got this photo & the unrelated link to the body count from has not been questioned about the 10 S kills so he doesn't know. He's one of those fanatical atheists so he said "that's not the point". I guess I get to do the search on my own now. Anyone well versed in the bible wanna do it for me? lol

Also, as I just stated, I believe the image and the link to the list are unrelated but basically state the same data arrived by two different individuals.

Terry S

[Evo9ers]

This is assuming that God is directly correlated with the death of 2 million.

In the case of Noah's Ark, people were so evil that he had to rid the world of them.

Sodom and Gamorah had a similar result.

I would not say that God "murdered" 2 million, but passes his full authoritive judgement upon them.

so let me get this strait... passing judgement on people and then 'ridding them' from the planet, is not killing?

so, the same could be applied in just about any other murder argument. well, i didnt kill him, i just passed judgement on him.

i love religion. seriously, 'thouh shalt not kill' ...god just broke one of his own commandments. isnt law, law? the people who write the laws, are still bound to them. and dont give me that crap god is above everything. given enough time, im sure we could create worlds.



the commandments are for the people of God not for Him. It's not God who killed them it's their sins.

[Evo9ers]

the consequence of sin is death.

[*chris*]

i dont see how god is above law ...thats all. he supposedly 'gave' us these commandments but yet, he doesnt give a fk about them in his own dealings. sounds shady to me.

'course im biased cuz i dont believe in christianity

[BUDLoNG]

the consequence of sin is death.. .... ugh... more like


the consequence of life is death

[Granny Shifter]

i dont see how god is above law ...thats all. he supposedly 'gave' us these commandments but yet, he doesnt give a fk about them in his own dealings. sounds shady to me.

'course im biased cuz i dont believe in christianity


1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.

Look at the 10 commandments man. These commandments are guidelines on how we are supposed to deal with our lives. How is God supposed to follow commandments made for humans, in which the general consensus of them is to respect GOD and respect OTHERS. Analyze them. The first four commandments deal with respecting God followed by the six that deal with people. God intended these commandments for people; not himself. Second of all, I would not go about making God look as a killer. He is absolute authority and if he kills, there is a reason behind it.



the consequence of sin is death.


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 6:23)."

Then you look at the very common verse John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

[Terry S]

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.


Sounds like the whole Christian faith goes against this one... Doesn't this make Christians sinners and blasphemers?

Terry S

[Granny Shifter]

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.


Sounds like the whole Christian faith goes against this one... Doesn't this make Christians sinners and blasphemers?

Terry S

Please elaborate.

[Terry S]

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.


Sounds like the whole Christian faith goes against this one... Doesn't this make Christians sinners and blasphemers?

Terry S

Please elaborate.


Read the quote.

People carrying crosses with jesus, or the virgin mary & all that stuff are "technically" using "graven images" of "[something] that is in heaven, ... [or] the earth beneath". Stating that your worshiping the ideas or teachings they represent is no different than the other Idolers who do the same thing to their "false gods".

Christians are Idolers and therefore blasphemers. Thats why I dont like christians. (Jews aren't exempt either because they idolize Moses (I think)).

Terry S

[Granny Shifter]

As a Seventh Day Adventist, our religion does not condone having these items such as crosses and such. Seventh Day Adventism is different from Catholicism and we make a strong point not to be involved with this religion. Heck, even our Bibles are quite different. The original scriptures for the Catholic Bible comes from the Vatticana while we use the KJV, a more direct translation from Hebrew.

[Granny Shifter]

Please do not generalize Christianity with Catholicism. I'm sorry if it has given you a bad taste of religion, but you will not get the full meaning of being a Christian until you look for religion for yourself.

[*chris*]

i still say the commandments are bogus. think about it, humans are technically animals. animals kill each other all the time. its called survival of the fittest. its how the food chain works. so then why the hell are we held to this superior position? cuz we're created in his likeness? give me a break. all that old testament crap is just heresy. did the book of genesis just fall from the sky immediately after things were created?

just to clarify, im not attacking anybody. i just find incosistencies and stupidity in the christian religion. in MANY religions in fact.

so they sit here and scare us into following these rules. why? if you sin, you go to hell. if thats not the biggest scare tactic ever created, i dont know what is. so basically, just being alive is a sin, and you need to ask for forgiveness or youre d00med to hell.
:roll:

[Granny Shifter]

Well, your experiences and such have lead you to where you stand today. I urge you to analytically view the Bible before allowing this hindsight bias to come into motion. Can you please explain what you are trying to infer with natural selection? I am intrigued with what you have to say. I also have another question. What do you believe?

[*chris*]

well hey, at least youre being cool with it. like i said, i wasnt trying to attack your or anyone else for their beliefs.

with the natural selection, im simply saying that i dont understand why 'thou shalt not kill' is even a commandment. everyday, every animal on the planet kills something else to further its own survival. but yet, humans are somehow held to this, dont kill each other stuff. the commandment just sounds like something a person would say ...you know, lifes so precious, blah blah blah.

what do i believe? i think theyres prolly something out there. whether its one god or many, i dont know. no-one can know for sure. and the god or gods, prolly think of our planet more like a fish tank. just let us live our lives and dont interfere. so im sure they have many 'fishtanks'.

i DONT believe in destiny or anything pre-ordaned. life is all about chance.

i grew up with many other christians and i used to believe it. i also studied many other religions because i am pretty fascinated by ancient cultures and other religions. but it was just one thing after another that caused me to lose faith in 'christianity'.

[Terry S]

Please do not generalize Christianity with Catholicism. I'm sorry if it has given you a bad taste of religion, but you will not get the full meaning of being a Christian until you look for religion for yourself.


I'm sorry to say, but there is really very little in the way of differences between almost all of the Christian sects. Hell, almost all religions say 95% the same thing anyways. It's all the same ideas but differing in the way its communicated.

Terry S

[Granny Shifter]

Its great talking to someone about a topic like this and I by all means am not trying to prove anything. I believe we are quite different from animals, not only physiologically. Our psychological interpretations and processes differentiate us from the animal kingdom. Well, I believe that we do not act out of instinct. We can use our past experiences to judge our actions. I really like the father of American Psychology, William James work on functionalism along with the topic empiricism. We do need to survive, but we have some different complexities that make us different from the animal kingdom. I also love the randomness of life. Destiny and crap do not really work. I have studied a little bit of Chaos Theory, which really has let me stretch my wings. In my religion, I really have confirmed my beliefs from studying different aspects of life. If you ever want to see a good movie that shows you how to prove Religion, you should see "Contact". In the end, you really can't prove religion. It is the amount of faith you have. With Christianity, your faith in Jesus Christ is what will save you in the end. When others tell you to do good deeds and such, it does not really have to do with being saved. The Bible says that when your faith grows stronger and you grow closer to Jesus Christ, you will be compelled to do good to others.

[Granny Shifter]

Please do not generalize Christianity with Catholicism. I'm sorry if it has given you a bad taste of religion, but you will not get the full meaning of being a Christian until you look for religion for yourself.


I'm sorry to say, but there is really very little in the way of differences between almost all of the Christian sects. Hell, almost all religions say 95% the same thing anyways. It's all the same ideas but differing in the way its communicated.

Terry S


That is not true. Many concepts of Christianity fluctuate from each different denomination. The critical difference between my religion, Seventh Day Adventism, is that we believe in the New Testament and that God told us to rest on the seventh day-the Sabbath. The Catholics have their own views with many diffferences such as a Pope, a medium to God where other forms of Christianity believe only we serve a direct connection with God. There are indeed many differences. Many denominations share the Old Testament, but even their interpretations vary. There are many many cases out there.

[Terry S]

Please do not generalize Christianity with Catholicism. I'm sorry if it has given you a bad taste of religion, but you will not get the full meaning of being a Christian until you look for religion for yourself.


I'm sorry to say, but there is really very little in the way of differences between almost all of the Christian sects. Hell, almost all religions say 95% the same thing anyways. It's all the same ideas but differing in the way its communicated.

Terry S


That is not true. Many concepts of Christianity fluctuate from each different denomination. The critical difference between my religion, Seventh Day Adventism, is that we believe in the New Testament and that God told us to rest on the seventh day-the Sabbath. The Catholics have their own views with many diffferences such as a Pope, a medium to God where other forms of Christianity believe only we serve a direct connection with God. There are indeed many differences. Many denominations share the Old Testament, but even their interpretations vary. There are many many cases out there.


Your only proving my point here. Just like we as humans are 98.3% related to chimps, all sects of christianity share roughly 95% the same "DNA" (read: bible) yet they all bend the words to produce vastly different teachings; but only in appearance. When you take a close look, its still all the same thing.

And Contact, while a good movie in its own right (even though the screenplay, directing & acting were atrocious), does nothing to further the "faith is unprovable" theory. That movie goes against the idea if anything. If you recall, there was no need for whats-her-name to "have faith in what she saw", there was proof that was intentionally covered up by others.

If there were actually a god or anything relating to it, and someone had the evidence to prove it but intentionally hid and destroyed the evidence, thats not faith, that evidence would factually prove god. I would much rather have people out looking for the evidence of "god" than wasting their time thinking they've already figured it out (read: religions stifle the search for god because they already have the answers).

Terry S

[*chris*]

while true we dont act entirely on instinct ...i still say technically we're animals. the major difference is that we have sentience and try to manipulate the environment around us. but i still dont see how we're supposed to be held to this higher level. we're still part of the natural life cycle. its just we've developed this 'precious' view of life.

i also agree with terry. ALL religions are 95% the same thing. they all have a basic root about the unexplainable. its just the way they bend ideas and words to make them all different.

and i suddenly find myself blanking on arguments. my ANNOYING ass cousin is over playing gamecube with my sister and another one of our cousins. and the kid is a fkn mutant.

[Granny Shifter]

When you change words, you interpret different meanings which result in different teachings. If all religions differentiate in there teachings, you would receive different information. How would you correlate religions being the same when our very values and beliefs are different? If it comes down to it, 95% of Christianity might conform to a monotheistic approach, but that is really it. It is the way we interpret God differently along with different events that have happened that shape the religion. The information given in the Bible might appear to be the root of most religion, but it is really far from it. Different interpretations lead to different meaning. How can you say they are the same, when they are VERY different. Look at this scenario regarding the differentiation of the New International Version. You say the root is the same, concluding that the religions are similar when in context, they are very different. Check this out about the NIV:
http://www.av1611.org/niv.html
Yes, words are bent and such, but they are definetely not the same. The problem is that each root is different due to different translations. The search for truth is the search for the true root.
I really do not see how you relate DNA to the Bible. If you could clear that up for me, it would really help.
The emphasis I have on Contact involves how the scientist reached an unsolvable mysterious in which she felt the presence of something she could not prove. Not only that, but her conversations with the pastor in which he asks her about her father (who died) and how she could prove that she loved him. In the end, it was the faith and conviction she had in the unexplainable phenomena of encountering her father that resided with her.
In my opinion, the relationship to an animal is far fetched. Our processes differ quite greatly, yet share some essential fundamentals (such as the fundamental nervous system which can also be found with a similar composition in sea slugs). Then again, this is just very opinionated. I just want to highlight that there are some key differences that make us different. Why can't life be precious? Isn't it precious?
Also, what is the basic root of the unexplainable? Either you believe in a supreme entity(s) that control the world or the science in the universe.

[Miss Evo8]

Its great talking to someone about a topic like this and I by all means am not trying to prove anything.Â* I believe we are quite different from animals, not only physiologically.Â* Our psychological interpretations and processes differentiate us from the animal kingdom.Â* Well, I believe that we do not act out of instinct.Â* We can use our past experiences to judge our actions.Â* I really like the father of American Psychology, William James work on functionalism along with the topic empiricism.Â* We do need to survive, but we have some different complexities that make us different from the animal kingdom.Â* I also love the randomness of life.Â* Destiny and crap do not really work.Â* I have studied a little bit of Chaos Theory, which really has let me stretch my wings.Â* In my religion, I really have confirmed my beliefs from studying different aspects of life.Â* If you ever want to see a good movie that shows you how to prove Religion, you should see "Contact".Â* In the end, you really can't prove religion.Â* It is the amount of faith you have.Â* With Christianity, your faith in Jesus Christ is what will save you in the end.Â* When others tell you to do good deeds and such, it does not really have to do with being saved.Â* The Bible says that when your faith grows stronger and you grow closer to Jesus Christ, you will be compelled to do good to others.


So how do you know when your faith is strong? When you stop questioning the Bible and follow the teachings of it like a sheep? Is that where the saying "the lamb of God" comes from?
I was brought up Catholic. Did the whole Baptism, First communion, Catacism etc... I stopped going to church for a few reasons.. one of them.. I was BORED! I mean the stories are cool.. but that's just it they are stories written by MEN. The words and stories where interpreted in many different ways.... hence the different sects of Christianity. I guess I believed for a long time and had some sort of "faith".....I lost what little "faith" I had about 4 years ago when I got really sick and actually died for two minutes in an Emergency room (heart and lungs stopped from a severe asthma attack) I saw no light at the end of the tunnel and my "praying" while I couldn't breath right before I died didn't save me.. where was "God" then? I was saved by drugs, science and a graduate of UCLA medical school...that's what saved me... I have faith in what I know and what I see and what can be proved.. not what some book tells me anymore.. I try to be a good person and do right by people.. and hope they treat me the same way...and in the end that is what I believe in...and if there is a God and you believe in him I don't pass judgement on you. I believe people are free to believe in whatever they want O0

[nlakind]

that is a great find! God is one bad motherfucker!

[indianevodriver]

^lol they are having a profound discussion and you come in with that. i wonder if jesus would bump ambitions as a rider?

[DizEvoIX]

First of all... I give all Praise and Glory to God. Without Him, I would not be. This is an interesting find. I respect the opinions of others, but I feel the need to weigh in on this subject. I'm not that well versed in the Bible, but I do know what I've been taught, and what I believe.

The Ten Commandments were not written for animals, they were written for humans. Yes, animals kill for survival. Humans have the intelligence to know that killing another human being is against the Commandments, and the law written by man. Humans don't kill other humans for survival. To refer to our lives as survival of the fittest is disturbing. Drug addicts, gangsters, and other criminals are not killing people to survive. They are being influenced by the devil. The devil is a conniving so and so.
In the Old Testament the wages of sin was instant death. You lied, you dropped dead where you stood. If you killed someone, you dropped dead where you stood. It's kind of like knowing if you commit a crime, you will be arrested, and sent to prison. We know what not to do, yet we choose to do it anyway. The people that God killed in the Bible were all influenced by the devil to sin. Every one of those people knew the consequences of their actions, but chose to sin anyway. So did God really kill all of those people? I say the devil had a hand in more than 10 deaths!!
MissEvo8, you said that you lost faith when you almost died. Maybe you did not see the light because your prayers were answered. God heard you and everyone who was praying for you. The doctors are educated and skilled in their craft. Just as easily as they may have saved you, they do all they can, the right way, and there are people that don't make it. You made it. If that is not a reason to have faith... what is? You are still here, enjoying life, your friends, family, and your Evo. ;) Be thankful to God that He gave you another chance. There may be something that you have yet to accomplish, and God has given you the chance to do it.
All of us should keep the faith as much as we can. Times are changing, and our faith will get us through.
I'm not going to say anymore. I will leave you with this: We have to watch what we say. It would really be tragic to denounce God, just to find out in the end that we were wrong. We will all believe in the end, but for some of us that will be to late. I'm not a gambling man, and I'm certainly not gambling with eternity on the line.

God Bless all of you! :angel:
:mitsu:

[*chris*]

thats one thing that really gets me. why is it when people are engaged in this kind of debate ...the science vs religion comes up, AND you can only choose one side. why cant there be a god or gods AND science?

and heres where having an argument like this leads. those that have 'faith' believe everything is according to gods word and actions. those that dont have 'faith' will never be swayed to believe that.

wheres the proof in the old testament? show me tangible proof about all of this stuff god does. you cant, cuz its all just written stuff about what 'could have' happened. who wrote it? men.

im with angela ...yes, a very rare instance, but i too have had some serious medical sht. i wasnt that close to death, but still it was enough. i had already lost faith by thist point, but it really kinda amplified my thoughts on it. i fail to see how bad things are a sign of love. what kind of fkd up bizarro world is that? ever seen the movie 'end of days' with arnold schwarzenegger? gabriel byrne played the devil and he summed it up perfectly... 'if something good happens, its his will. if something bad happens, he moves in mysterious ways.' sure the devil may tempt you into things, but who is it REALLY that takes things away from you? (this is all of course assuming god exists. and think of the story with job.)

[GokuSSJ4]

i dont see how god is above law ...thats all. he supposedly 'gave' us these commandments but yet, he doesnt give a fk about them in his own dealings. sounds shady to me.

'course im biased cuz i dont believe in christianity


1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.

Look at the 10 commandments man. These commandments are guidelines on how we are supposed to deal with our lives. How is God supposed to follow commandments made for humans, in which the general consensus of them is to respect GOD and respect OTHERS. Analyze them. The first four commandments deal with respecting God followed by the six that deal with people. God intended these commandments for people; not himself. Second of all, I would not go about making God look as a killer. He is absolute authority and if he kills, there is a reason behind it.



the consequence of sin is death.


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 6:23)."

Then you look at the very common verse John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
people sometimes choose not to believe .. some dont believe on a God at all..

[GokuSSJ4]

Please do not generalize Christianity with Catholicism. I'm sorry if it has given you a bad taste of religion, but you will not get the full meaning of being a Christian until you look for religion for yourself.


I'm sorry to say, but there is really very little in the way of differences between almost all of the Christian sects. Hell, almost all religions say 95% the same thing anyways. It's all the same ideas but differing in the way its communicated.

Terry S


That is not true. Many concepts of Christianity fluctuate from each different denomination. The critical difference between my religion, Seventh Day Adventism, is that we believe in the New Testament and that God told us to rest on the seventh day-the Sabbath. The Catholics have their own views with many diffferences such as a Pope, a medium to God where other forms of Christianity believe only we serve a direct connection with God. There are indeed many differences. Many denominations share the Old Testament, but even their interpretations vary. There are many many cases out there.


Your only proving my point here. Just like we as humans are 98.3% related to chimps, all sects of christianity share roughly 95% the same "DNA" (read: bible) yet they all bend the words to produce vastly different teachings; but only in appearance. When you take a close look, its still all the same thing.

And Contact, while a good movie in its own right (even though the screenplay, directing & acting were atrocious), does nothing to further the "faith is unprovable" theory. That movie goes against the idea if anything. If you recall, there was no need for whats-her-name to "have faith in what she saw", there was proof that was intentionally covered up by others.

If there were actually a god or anything relating to it, and someone had the evidence to prove it but intentionally hid and destroyed the evidence, thats not faith, that evidence would factually prove god. I would much rather have people out looking for the evidence of "god" than wasting their time thinking they've already figured it out (read: religions stifle the search for god because they already have the answers).

Terry S

you can only refer this to a certain parts of christianity, which catholics aren't included.
it states clearly about the idols, and some of the things that catholics have emphasize for years. About the catholic religion, well a lot has to do with history itself and how the idols came into play a strong role in their religion.

[NMREJ6]

I sin everyday, but know that the blood of Christ has saved me, and share to another of what he did for me.Â* I believe in Christ because I almost took my life once, but only he knows why I din't and I was only 14yrs and now 28yrs old and I'm in love with God,Son, and Holy spirit more than ever.Â* It's not about religious ritual, its about an encounter with our creator.

I love watching these guys.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/watchwitnessing.shtml#

[GokuSSJ4]

I sin everyday, but know that the blood of Christ has saved me, and share to another of what he did for me. I believe in Christ because I almost took my life once, but only he knows why I din't and I was only 14yrs and now 28yrs old and I love with God,Son, and Holy spirit more than ever. It's not about religious ritual, its about an encounter with our creator.

I love watching these guys.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/watchwitnessing.shtml#
you should check this out
http://www.josueyrion.org/antigo/english.htm

[GokuSSJ4]

There is one God, who is infinetely perfect, existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; we believe that the Bible is inspired Word of God, the supreme source of faith and practice; in the ethernal Deity of Jesus Christ; in His virgin birth; in His death on the Calvary as a substitute for our sins; in His bodily ressurrection; that salvation comes by faith in Christ; that all mem are lost apart from the saving grace found in Christ; that the Church is composed of Born-again believers; in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit in people's lives; that Christians are responsible to go into all nations, in the personal return of Jesus Christ to the earth.

[Granny Shifter]

I'm glad to hear that you are doing well nmrej6. Dizevoix, I follow the same ideology as you. Ms. Evo 8, I'm sorry to hear what has happened to you, but don't you believe that divine intervention could have saved you from those two minutes? It must be hard to have faith after such a horrible experience, but you are alive and doing well right? There just is no explanation for each case as to why does God allow some to live or die. Look at the case of Job in the Bible. Satan took everything away from the man, but Job kept his faith throughout his whole case.

[Granny Shifter]

If one is interested in hearing some sermons:
http://audioverse.org/

[GokuSSJ4]

have you guys search for the famous Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758).
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God
Im sorry for those that dont agree with this but for those that havent had the chance to read it, here it is!
http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/sermons/sinners.html
here is another link on some of his work
http://edwards.yale.edu/major-works/sinners-in-the-hands-of-an-angry-god/

[Miss Evo8]

:buck2: this is becomming bible study with the quotes...stay on topic Tomas

[GokuSSJ4]

:buck2: this is becomming bible study with the quotes...stay on topic Tomas
you dont have to click or view anything if you dont want to or doesnt appeal you.
im just sharing somethings with them... and this is part of the topic "God"
just because im not amusing you with things that go with what you believe, doesnt mean i can share with others *

[Miss Evo8]

:roll:

[Miss Evo8]

There is one God, who is infinetely perfect, existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; we believe that the Bible is inspired Word of God, the supreme source of faith and practice; in the ethernal Deity of Jesus Christ; in His virgin birth; in His death on the Calvary as a substitute for our sins; in His bodily ressurrection; that salvation comes by faith in Christ; that all mem are lost apart from the saving grace found in Christ; that the Church is composed of Born-again believers; in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit in people's lives; that Christians are responsible to go into all nations, in the personal return of Jesus Christ to the earth.


Interesting point...but then again here is the other side of that argument...

But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God. (Adam and Eve)

What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

[Miss Evo8]

I found this....

**Not saying what I believe or dont believe or what you believe or anyone believes is right or wrong... believe what you want its fine by me... just dont force your beliefs on me! O0**

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

[*chris*]

i love that list ^^^^

ok i just read the passages of job ...it was satan who took everything from him. BUT ...who gave him the power to do that?! god. why? to prove a point to satan? what a great guy! lets turn his happy life into a living hell just to see if he'd blame me. and then in the previous passages, it says... job FEARS god and shuns evil. WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

again, this is just bizarro world.

[Granny Shifter]

have you guys search for the famous Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758).
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God
Im sorry for those that dont agree with this but for those that havent had the chance to read it, here it is!
http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/sermons/sinners.html
here is another link on some of his work
http://edwards.yale.edu/major-works/sinners-in-the-hands-of-an-angry-god/


I've heard about this, but I have never heard it myself. Thank you for sharing this.

[Granny Shifter]

I found this....

**Not saying what I believe or dont believe or what you believe or anyone believes is right or wrong... believe what you want its fine by me... just dont force your beliefs on me! O0**

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.


Maybe this is how it looks like to others. Whatever I look like, I believe my Savior is Jesus Christ who died on the cross for my sins. I will respect the descisions others make for their religions, but I will like to share God's message and how he has changed my life.



i love that list ^^^^

ok i just read the passages of job ...it was satan who took everything from him. BUT ...who gave him the power to do that?! god. why? to prove a point to satan? what a great guy! lets turn his happy life into a living hell just to see if he'd blame me. and then in the previous passages, it says... job FEARS god and shuns evil. WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

again, this is just bizarro world.


You are not supposed to understand the divine. There are things that are too complex as to God's choices.

[Granny Shifter]

Hehe. I'm going to church in an hour.

[x[corwyn]]

Ugh. This is almost as bad as watching Scientology. I agree that there is more to the next life (or frame, or existance, or world, or what have you) but I doubt that its anything we have read or known will tell us.

The bible is still a myth. A collection of stories that were written down after being passed orally from generations down. I doubt that what is in there is really accurate or worth throwing my reason or thought into. The throw it to "God" and its his will feels like a serious cop-out on what is really a deep and thoughtful topic.

If there is one constant faith that I have, it is that any subject, word, thought, or "faith" that can be presented from one man to another, can and will be used in such a way to make one more powerful than the other. Basically religion is a tool for power. True faith, spirituality does not come from the bible, or from men telling others how to think, feel, or live. It comes from doing. It comes from having a sense of right and wrong and then acting on those beliefs. I feel like the bible is sort of a training wheels of morality. At some point the wheels have to come off and a human has to think for himself and do what they feel is right.

So many of our issues come from religion. The real politics come from the big ones; water, land, food, etc etc... but whenever someone needs a justification to harm one man over another...inevitably the "religious" card is played. "They interpret the bible differently than us....kill them!"

Anytime I have seen backward thought, ideas, or just plain things that or obstinate, irritating, and really stupid....It usually comes from the christian right. The stupidest laws, the most irritating of things said and done.... All in heavy Christian areas. I grew up in an area of Texas that was pretty nice and at the time not heavily populated. As it got more populated and more churches came in...ugh. The stupider the laws got. The blue laws there are enough to drive any sane person that has lived in California mad. The backwards ideas that belong more from a time better forgotten...They will be spouted and espoused there. People there trade quotes from the bible instead of forming their own opinions and do some critical thinking.

I read the Bible before anyone gets angry and asks," Have you even READ the Bible?! Dont you know what an earth changing experience that is?!". Yes I read it. It read like OK science fiction. While interesting, and mildly entertaining it did create some thinking that I liked but overall I did not believe. I was not converted to throwing my thought process and critical thinking and live my whole world and faith to this book.

The translation of the Bible itself into Englishis a fascinating look at Christianity. The person responsible for over 80% of the the Great Bible we have now, Tyndale was murdered because he had translated the bible from Latin into English. Nice people. I wonder if people will say he was murdered because he sinned before God. It was a popular view at the time... If so, then reading a non-latin Bible would be a propogation of that sin. Of course it just might be another man using religion as a tool for justification of an evil act...nah. That never happens.

In all this I respect people's beliefs. I firmly believe that people need to have a thought, and idea of what we truly are and our place that should and will be. These thoughts though should be always open to be rethought out, and challenged internally by what we see, hear, think, and learn as we get older. I do think how we treat one another can and will be a reflection on what happens next. I dont think religion, at least in its current form, is good for humanity's growth. It is inflexible, outdated, and used as a basis for power over the weak willed, or the small minded. Its not true spirituality. I think the human race will grow far better without those chains upon us, without the conflict of difference of one interpretation that was made by men, over another interpretation that was made by men.

If taken by the long view of millenia, this time period will stull be reflected upon as a time of children arguing over nonsense and stupidity when we could do great things together. No I dont like religion at all. If I could I would stamp it out today for the betterment of us all. The words of martyrs, jihad, holy crusade, christianization, bringing God to the masses.... are all bad words to me. Most of the problems with the middle east are because religions cant share "the holy city" of Jerusalem. From the middle ages on, that has been one of the great issues of the time. Recapture "the Holy City". Why?! If we measured the cost of these wars, these battles, the issues we have in present time... Israel vs the rest of the Middle East, can we say its worth it? I vote completely, whole heartedly, unequivocably, undeniably, No.

I dont think God would like what his Children are doing if we really looked at it from His perspective. I doubt very much the things done in his name are really what He had in mind.

[*chris*]

i love that list ^^^^

ok i just read the passages of job ...it was satan who took everything from him. BUT ...who gave him the power to do that?! god. why? to prove a point to satan? what a great guy! lets turn his happy life into a living hell just to see if he'd blame me. and then in the previous passages, it says... job FEARS god and shuns evil. WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

again, this is just bizarro world.


You are not supposed to understand the divine. There are things that are too complex as to God's choices.

ok im sorry ...but that is such a cop-out. like i said awhile ago, im not trying to attack you or your faith.

but thats a PRIME example of why i dont believe the bible. it makes absolutely no sense to fear a loving being. if the being is truly loving, then why is he instilling fear in his followers. its exactly what totalitarian is ...instill compliance with fear. do what i say, or go to hell.

i do agree alot with what xcorwyn said. so O0 for you.

if you cant tell, its been a damn long time since ive been in a good religions debate. there are only 2friends of mine that i could debate this stuff with, and one of them sees things nearly identical to what i think. while the other is INSANELY religious now ...so to question the bible in front of him is like starting a war.

so by all means, believe what you want to. i just have serious issues with many religions ESPECIALLY christianity. i cant even stand to sit in a church during a funeral ...i just hate being in this 'house of man ..er god.'

[chavo_del_8]

I was looking forward to reading about the 10 satan killed. Wouldn't it make sense to also provide that data? It seems that a lot of effort was put into listing the millions killed but he couldn't come up with 10. Anyways, are the millions killed considered a fact? If they were wouldn't that be an acknowledgement of belief?

In my opinion, I think people try to justify their actions by rejecting their accountability to a higher authority. So in essence by rejecting God they are shedding that accountabilty. To be a Believer means that you must deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Him, not too many people are willing to do that. I'm Christian and I stand firm in my beliefs. I'm also aware that I may be wrong. Every one has faith in something, whether it be science or whatever they choose. I just choose to put my faith in God.

Some of you have questioned "why does God allow.." We are paying for our disobedience (sins). I have been through my fair share of personal battles also but If you recall the Apostle Paul says (Phil. 1:21) For to me to live [is] Christ. (Should he be suffered to live, his life would be for extending the kingdom of Christ, but personally,
to die [is] gain. (To die would be gain; a release from sufferings and an entrance upon eternal joys.)

I have read Sam Harris' "Letter to a Christan Nation" and I see some valid points. I can understand why he questions my faith.Â* If God was proved to exist by science or He came down and peformed a miracle for all man to see, then what would be the point of having free will? Wouldn't we all choose to follow if we knew that we'd be cast into the lake of fire without Him?

I know that some of you have read the bible and there is passage (the location escapes my mind at the moment) that states "some will become cold hearted or hardened of the heart" towards God. No matter what explaination is given or offered it will never suffice.

In conclusion, I live my life like there is a God. Of course, I'm human and will make many mistakes along the way. But in the end, when I die if there is no God, what have I really lost? Nothing, I lived a good life and turned back into dirt.

But what if there is a God? Then what?..

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to life and only a few shall find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).Â*

Just my 2 cents.Â* O0

[*chris*]

my question still stands to anyone who can give me a reasonable answer...
WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

also, someone mentioned noah & the ark, and it made me think of something. going back to what angela was saying... god created a perfect being but then these perfect beings fell to temptation. then he had noah make the ark, take a bunch of animals with him and get on the ark so he could wipe out all of his creation, to restart earth.

why wouldnt he just wipe it ALL out? obviously noah is not perfect. so basically he's allowing imperfection to remain. what the hell?

[Terry S]

Jesus titty fucking christ people. You guys write to much.

I'm working today but i'll respond back to as many of you as I can when I get a free hour.

Terry S

[mattsevo]

I crack up when I see people thank god cause they have food to eat. Who should the 5 million childrens under the age of 5 that die from starvation each year thank?? Should they thank god for starving them to death? I DONT THINK SO!

Religion = Excuse :2funny:

Religion FTL

[chavo_del_8]

my question still stands to anyone who can give me a reasonable answer...
WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

also, someone mentioned noah & the ark, and it made me think of something. going back to what angela was saying... god created a perfect being but then these perfect beings fell to temptation. then he had noah make the ark, take a bunch of animals with him and get on the ark so he could wipe out all of his creation, to restart earth.

why wouldnt he just wipe it ALL out? obviously noah is not perfect. so basically he's allowing imperfection to remain. what the hell?


I don't think its necessarily a fear of God but rather a fear of His wrath. The questions you ask are too complex for me (and quite possibly everyone else here) to answer. It's like asking you to explain all of the working parts and how they interact on a NASA space-shuttle. I'm pretty sure a NASA engineer could tell me but because I don't know much about it, it would seem like nonsense.

You don't understand because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of wisdom and revelation. Ephesians 1:17 states "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him"

As a non believer you dont possess the HS and that is causing your doubts.

Maybe you can ask God yourself on judgement day =-)

[chavo_del_8]

You also mentioned Job.

True, Job's faith was tested and his personal life was turned upside down but you failed to mention that his prosperity after the fact was twice fold.

I like these discussions but both sides have to be presented.

[DizEvoIX]

my question still stands to anyone who can give me a reasonable answer...
WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?


why wouldn't he just wipe it ALL out? obviously Noah is not perfect. so basically he's allowing imperfection to remain. what the hell?


my question still stands to anyone who can give me a reasonable answer...
WHY would you have to FEAR a loving god?

also, someone mentioned Noah & the ark, and it made me think of something. going back to what Angela was saying... god created a perfect being but then these perfect beings fell to temptation. then he had Noah make the ark, take a bunch of animals with him and get on the ark so he could wipe out all of his creation, to restart earth.

why wouldn't he just wipe it ALL out? obviously Noah is not perfect. so basically he's allowing imperfection to remain. what the hell?


I don't think its necessarily a fear of God but rather a fear of His wrath. The questions you ask are too complex for me (and quite possibly everyone else here) to answer. It's like asking you to explain all of the working parts and how they interact on a NASA space-shuttle. I'm pretty sure a NASA engineer could tell me but because I don't know much about it, it would seem like nonsense.

You don't understand because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of wisdom and revelation. Ephesians 1:17 states "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him"

As a non believer you dint possess the HS and that is causing your doubts.

Maybe you can ask God yourself on judgement day =-)



Good answer Chavo... I don't have all of the answers neither. But, I extend an invitation to any and all who want to go to church with me. My Pastor is very knowledgeable, and can answer a lot of your questions. My church is in Compton. PM me if any of you want to go. We also have Bible Study on Wednesday nights. That is the best forum to ask these questions and express your feelings of doubt and no faith. I'm not saying you will be converted or will change your mind, but you will have a better understanding. Our service starts at 7:45am and another service at 11:00am.

[chavo_del_8]

I crack up when I see people thank god cause they have food to eat. Who should the 5 million childrens under the age of 5 that die from starvation each year thank?? Should they thank god for starving them to death? I DONT THINK SO!

Religion = Excuse :2funny:

Religion FTL


and just because you don't believe makes it ok to insult and laugh?

I sincerely doubt that you would laugh in a mosque full of praying Islamic men.

Ignorance FTL

[x[corwyn]]

In my opinion, I think people try to justify their actions by rejecting their accountability to a higher authority. So in essence by rejecting God they are shedding that accountabilty.


What accountability for what are you talking about? I think people hide their accountability behind the standard,"Well I'm human and I sin, and God will forgive me so I can go do what I want." Like I said before its spirituality for infants. You should be accountable for your own actions without having a religion that is run by men, told by men, founded by men, and written originally by men tell you what to do. I guess like I said before... We have a lot of growing up to do still. As silly as Scientology is, its no more silly than how Christian fundamentalists act.

Its also funny how any debate about facts, the whole thing about God knows, or I give myself to God, he has the answers etc etc is the pat answer. Those arent answers. They are cop outs.

The world isnt thousands of years old. No real solid of proof exists beyond Men's actions in the bible. Even those dont always co-ordinate too well. Answers from the Christian Fundys always leave you scratching your head on how they can seriously answer like that and expect people to take them seriously. Well its God will doesnt answer a thing.

Now personally I think the answer is somewhere in between Science and Faith. The answers are there for those that truly want to know and learn. I think God is truly testing Humanity. I think we are failing horribly. No one got the real message. Instead we have half-wits that take what they are spoon fed and call that faith and spirituality. I think that everyone needs to find the answers for themselves, take a hard look at every religion, some history courses that cover the events and times that are factual, read a bit in some off beat thinking books, and read some other books out there that have nothing to do with religion but offer insight to how Men really think and work, like The Art of War.

Of course its always easier to read a few versus in the Bible and call it a day. I personally choose the hard path. Think. Learn. I hope someday to have a real command on the subject enough to where I can say whats really out there. I can say one thing is for sure. No one gets out alive. :)

[x[corwyn]]

I crack up when I see people thank god cause they have food to eat. Who should the 5 million childrens under the age of 5 that die from starvation each year thank?? Should they thank god for starving them to death? I DONT THINK SO!

Religion = Excuse :2funny:

Religion FTL


and just because you don't believe makes it ok to insult and laugh?

I sincerely doubt that you would laugh in a mosque full of praying Islamic men.

Ignorance FTL


Hell no! They might show us their belief in there supposed "non-violent" religion and kill me!!!

Seriously though I respect other people's religious beliefs. When at a dinner, people wish to pray, I pray. I find akin to taking my shoes off at the door. Its kinda annoying, but hey its respectful.

[chavo_del_8]

The accountability I was referring to was the accountability towards God for our own actions. I never said accountability towards man. Every man is the same, no better than the next. I agree that a lot of people hide behind "God forgives.." and that in itself is not right.

I do not consider myself religious because to me that means ritualistic. Going to church on sunday, singing some hymns, saying a prayer. Playing church.

I consider myself a believer, spiritual, a man of God and what really gets to me is when people use God's name to do harm to others. So I decided to be different. One who embraces everyone, accepts everyone, who loves everyone because Jesus loved me and I'm supposed to reflect that.

I also respect everyone, even those who mock my way of life, make fun of my beliefs, whatever the case. Jesus, who was the King of Jews was mocked, spat on, and beaten.

I guess more people need to apply Jesus' teachings instead of just preaching them.

[*chris*]

yes i understand its more of a fear of his wrath ...but i still dont see why we have to fear that. if he's so loving, there should be no threat.

and yes, i am aware that jobs fortunes returned. but why did he need to be tested to begin with? what was the meaning of it ...to prove a point to satan? yah ok. and what exactly did that accomplish?

i went to church, i heard the words, i saw how 'happy' people seemed to be. i even tried to believe it for a long time. but what little belief i had in a blind faith, couldnt stand against lifes little moments. so i turned to other religions but again found them all eerily similar. looked to philosophy, but unlike religion, it never provides answers. only questions... and once one question is answered, a hundred more arise. so where do i stand today? i dont know, i assume theres something more, maybe another life like reincarnation. but whos to know for sure until youre dead.

again, xcorwyn is nailing it. O0 O0

[Evo9ers]

Religion can not save us. It's not about the religion, it's the relationship to God. The only way to have that relationship is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. He died in the cross to pay the ransom. It's not to late yet. 2Corinthians 5:17 says" If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, old things pass
away behold old things becomes new".

[*chris*]

...ok. thats all fine and good. but youre preaching to us, when we're debating.

???

[Miss Evo8]

...ok. thats all fine and good. but youre preaching to us, when we're debating.

???


My thoughts exactly... we can sit here all day and "quote" the Bible. The Bible was written by MEN... therefore don't you think the "stories" have changed over the years? I have a question... "Why are there so many variations of "Christianity"?

[Miss Evo8]

"Its not that you don't believe.... but you choose not to believe"... WTF! I had someone tell me that... can one of you shed some "light" on this? I don't believe.. because I have seen nothing to make me believe... Why should I blindly accept and believe something because a book that was written by MEN tells me so? What evidence or proof do we really have? some stories? that are cool and entertaining? Bah I think not!

[Miss Evo8]

And to counter the arguement.. "we dont live by the rules of the old testement... blah blah blah"
The New Testement is just as Evil and Wicked....

New Testament. Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death�.

WTF! what happened to the all loving and forgiving Jesus Christ!

Well I'm Catholic so if I say 10 Hail Mary's and 15 Our Fathers I will be forgiven for all my sins and be brand new once again!!!!! and once again be allowed into Heaven!!! Yeah! OH but wait I found this ..... I am NEVER getting into Heaven.. even though I was told if I was good girl I could go to Heaven....Â* John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

:idiot2:Â* but I was told that I would go to heaven... hmmm do you think the Bible and it's teachings in all its sects of Christianity contradict itself?

[Miss Evo8]

LMAO the Bible can be quite entertaining!!!

Don't Grab the Testicles!!!!

If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity.Â* Â*(Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

WTF! Haaa Haaa Haaa


just curious.. does that apply if you are not an Isrealite?

[Miss Evo8]

and to add a disclaimer.... I am in no way shape or form putting down anyones beliefs or religion!!! If that is who you are its cool! Every person has a right to believe what they want! O0

[*chris*]

Â* John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.


HOLY SHIT! BOMBS AWAY! good find.

lol i think this debate is the first thing we have ever agreed on.

[DizEvoIX]

You all have good questions. It is good that you do. You should want to understand as much as possible. Have any of you ever talked to a Minister about your feelings? Like I said before, all of you are invited to go to church with me on Sundays, and especially Wednesday night Bible Study. You can ask your questions there.

Be Blessed!! :angel:
:mitsu:

[greekven]

well hey, at least youre being cool with it. like i said, i wasnt trying to attack your or anyone else for their beliefs.

with the natural selection, im simply saying that i dont understand why 'thou shalt not kill' is even a commandment. everyday, every animal on the planet kills something else to further its own survival. but yet, humans are somehow held to this, dont kill each other stuff. the commandment just sounds like something a person would say ...you know, lifes so precious, blah blah blah.

when it says thou shalt not kill, it means don't go shoot somebody on the head or anywhere else. Animals kill for necessity (for food).

[GokuSSJ4]

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.


HOLY SHIT! BOMBS AWAY! good find.

lol i think this debate is the first thing we have ever agreed on.
funny how Angela seems to pick at the bible like a salad bar. There more to it than just taking a verse and trying to find an entire explanation behind it, especially to those who dont believe or care less for what the verses say.
How about trying to read the entire chapter and perhaps see what the author was speaking about, instead of taking one thing like John 3:13 and trying to say that no one can be save. If that would be the case than why read
John 3:16
that we all are save by grace and the grace of God not by Acts..
Read the chapter where he is being question on how He (Jesus) knows all those things (heavenly things) and than try to put a little reasoning. Even add a bit of common sense if you would like to understand as you call it "stories" to see what they speak off.
This is another point... these stories written by men, silly people they have been, since historically theres a huge difference in a time line from the book of Isaiah and the book of John. Yet they speak of the coming and death of the Messiah. funny how that might seem. since these stories written by men make the best "novel" ever in history. How can a different author take over and continue a history without flaws and with them same plot. How can he continue to speak and tell about events to come and this that took place by a person that spoke of them 600 years BC .. how can that be? yet they find themself speaking and on the same path, to speak to those that want or choose to listen...



"Its not that you don't believe.... but you choose not to believe"... WTF! I had someone tell me that... can one of you shed some "light" on this? I don't believe.. because I have seen nothing to make me believe... Why should I blindly accept and believe something because a book that was written by MEN tells me so? What evidence or proof do we really have? some stories? that are cool and entertaining? Bah I think not!

its funny and the posts above are a proof of that.. you pick through different things in the bible and even if a scholar explained to you the meaning behind certain things , you wouldnt agree or still would question certain things due to your bad experience. FYI you arent the only one that has been close (in your case technically death) to dying. Yet instead of seeing all the different positive things you see nothing but negatives. Its funny how America once that was founded in believing in God, now is the one that denies it!

this probably dont make any sense to most if not all of you guys,..... its late and its time to go to bed ... loll

[Miss Evo8]

I have read the whole chapter of John....your quote just further proves that the Bible contradicts itself..... and my country is run by Christian fundementalists....so dont tell my country doesnt love God and we don't deny God!! We are one nation under God!Â* :roll:Â*
......and I do pick it apart like a salad bar.... to find the best parts!
and written without historical flaws? says who? want me to find more contradictions? and flaws?Â* Â*
look I know u get all mushy and gooey for Jesus God and the Bible and that is fine but I find it hard to believe you think this book is perfect and without flaws....and I was only sharing my personal experience with God about the dying stuffÂ* . 8)
and understand? I understand quite well....my years of "Catholic training" help me with that one! IMO you sound like you have been brainwashed...lol u sometimes remind me of the Jehovahs Witnesses who would try and preach that my family needed to join their church...and how I needed to read their Bible...wtf if its all the word and history etc of God/Jesus why is there so many versions of the Bible? sorry but as I get older and wiser I see more of the contradictions and flaws....if by reading the Bible makes u happy and a better person....more power to you....but maybe you can use some common sense and not be so blinded...
and you asked how a different author can pick up and continue...give me some paper and pay me and I can write the next Harry Potter novel...I have lots of ideas! the point is anyone can add to the story...thats why there are updates revisions etc...things are added and changed..... because Man being Man can always do things better faster bigger etc....Â* Â* Â* Â*

*andIstickwithmypreviousdisclaimerimnotputtingudow nforbelievingingod*

[Mokaone]

hmmm... this thread is getting good[im assuming]. i wanna get up in here, but i dont wanna read 6 pages. lolz

[*chris*]

go look in any scienece book ...what are humans? mammals. you think we dont act out of instinct? 1000s of years of civilization can change/modify instinct. so i say that commandment especially, is bogus. sounds very man-made. thats all im gonna say, im done debating that topic.

what historical evidence is there of moses leading the hebrews out of egypt? i guess its funny how i never remember reading anything about this in textbooks or encyclopedias, just the bible. and seriously, a burning bush? is what gave moses the 10comandments. i wanna know what he was on so i can maybe get a million dollars from one of the trees in my yard.

one thing is for certain in that christianity begins its rise about the time of jesus. but when do they start reciting passages from these books? or even writing these damn things? AFTER he's dead. amazing how no-one thinks to write this sht down AS IT HAPPENS.

plus lets not forget, that christianity came from judaism. who was the messiah in judaisn? nobody knows. wouldnt you think if it really was jesus, the ENTIRE jewish religion wouldve accepted him. what happened? a group broke off from judaism to form christianity and write the new testament.

i know this is gonna send chills through some of your spines ...but jesus sounds more like a false prophet, leading people away from the truth.

*thats just my take on it. i am in no way attacking individual persons here*
*gets in nuclear shelter to survive the potential fallout*

[GokuSSJ4]

brainwash? loll
sorry! theres even some aspects of my life that you arent aware of.. I wasnt raise as a christian, and theres certain events and seeing certain things in life that have made me believe the things i have. Not just because some one has told me so, but do to some experieces in life. Just because you went to catholic school doesnt mean much. I did as well, i even went to a catholic private school when i was at a young age. Didnt mean anything!
Life at times has a funny way of showing you things overall. An even though this country had founding fathers, yet the way it seems now, yes america most of the part denies it!
Theres even some people fighting or at least have tried to remove the In God we trust from the dollar. doesnt seem shocking at all!
Theres more to life than you think it is... alot more...


plus lets not forget, that christianity came from judaism. who was the messiah in judaisn? nobody knows. wouldnt you think if it really was jesus, the ENTIRE jewish religion wouldve accepted him. what happened? a group broke off from judaism to form christianity and write the new testament.
this is an easy answer, how about trying to read some of the new testament books... even the book of revelations or even the book of Isaiah... It saids what was going to happen to the messiah and how his people wouldnt accept who he is. Those things are spoken in the old testament from all the major prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc..

[*chris*]

but does it say SPECIFICALLY that it is jesus? no. it gives vague words and phrasings that people could characterize into just about anyone.

ive read alot of the new testament and some of the old testament. ive said this several times.

[NMREJ6]

this is the God I serve. My King

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2363286678149240729&q=thats+my+king&hl=en

[RPD_FKTARD]

this might be the reason why i want to believe in god

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gdYLUwuZa4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0KJrKpuPq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbyoIL0vZc

[NMREJ6]

^^ i knew someone was going to post that. pretty funny though :2funny:

[greekven]

go look in any scienece book ...what are humans? mammals. you think we dont act out of instinct? 1000s of years of civilization can change/modify instinct

Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* So you are saying, that belonging to gangs and killing innocent people, is acting on instinct. Â*To go to somebody's house and killing that person is out of instinct. Â*To rape and kill is out of instinct. Â*To abuse of a child is out of instinct. Â*Well, if that's the case, then we shouldn't have a more developed brain that makes us superior to the other mammals, if we going to act on instinct alone. Â*

Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Other mammals, don't rape or Â*hurt their or other children.

[*chris*]

omfg. youre missing the point. 'thou shalt not kill' sounds entirely man-made because the creator, god, can go about killing however many fkn people he wants, so it makes no sense that hed hand us a rule that says dont kill since hes killed more than any single one of us.

and stop putting words in my mouth ...i NEVER ONCE mentioned rape or abuse. stay with the group.

[Terry S]

Ok, lets see if I can chime in here now that I have time.

1) The original image and the link to the body counts are apparently unrelated. This is why the body count list does not reference the 10 satan kills and why the two numbers don't sync up. I still cant find where the image was original created but it's pretty clear that using the numbers and explanations provided in the body count link, the image is a "roughly" correct representation.

2) Other mammals do hurt their children. Infact, many of them intentionally ostracize and/or eat the weak/sick ones so that the stronger ones survive. Again, humans are actually not much different except that we usually dont eat the weak ones, we just let them become hippies so they can physically and psychologically kill themselves.

3) Saying that you believe in any god or religion is wrong. Thats right, your wrong. Saying that its "ok for everyone to believe what they want even though its a different idea than mine" is wrong. Saying that you can either believe in a religion or believe in science is wrong too (like chad said). We have the universe around us to explore. Everyday we go out and test out the rules that govern the way we live. Everytime we use a cell phone, we are testing the realm of physics and wave theory. Every time we drive a car, we test out thermodynamics and aerodynamics. Every day we learn something new in every area of our universe because we go out and search for the answers. To ANYONE who says that they are pretty sure (or positive) that they've figured out the answer to the Universe (because thats what a god & religion is trying to prove) is wrong. Black and white, your wrong. It's a guess. With no empirical evidence to back you up. You dont even try to use the rules of the SAME FUCKING UNIVERSE YOU CLAIM YOUR GOD CREATED to explain himself or your way of thinking. Quit wasting everyones time with your false answers and start helping out everyone else who want the TRUE answers to the universe. Heavens gate people had unshakeable faith that there was an alien spacecraft hiding behind a comet that was passing by to pick up the souls of the "true believers". Jesus fucking christ. How is that different? It's not. Guessing at an answer instead of solving for it is wrong.

So there you go. I hate religious people. Especially ones that believe in gods. I'd rather we all spent our time trying to figure out how to go out and explore the universe, multiply and get out where a god could possibly be. The earth is so infinitely small it's ridiculous. We are nothing. We are almost literally an infinitely unremarkable speck of nothing in the universe and we are most definitely not unique. Think thats wrong? Why dont we go prove it instead of guessing. Guessing didn't make cell phones. Guessing didn't make the internet.

Finally, if you want to know my "religion" I could be called a Humanist basically but I dont practice shit. I'm too busy trying to improve my own position first, so I can improve the quality of life for my family, so I can provide a better life for those around me and finally so I can be a contributing member to the continued existence of the human race before I die. (personal belief :D)

Terry S (I dont believe anyone will actually read this... lol)

[*chris*]

yes terry, i read it. LOL

[Miss Evo8]

Terry S (I dont believe anyone will actually read this... lol)


you know everyone is going to read this... so you are wrong!!! :D

[Terry S]

yes terry, i read it. LOL


LOL

Somedays the tEaMM AZZHOLE comes out in me more than others.

I went back and reread the thread from the beginning before I posted so I got in the mood good before that post...

Terry S

[Mokaone]

go look in any scienece book ...what are humans? mammals. you think we dont act out of instinct? 1000s of years of civilization can change/modify instinct

So you are saying, that belonging to gangs and killing innocent people, is acting on instinct. To go to somebody's house and killing that person is out of instinct. To rape and kill is out of instinct. To abuse of a child is out of instinct. Well, if that's the case, then we shouldn't have a more developed brain that makes us superior to the other mammals, if we going to act on instinct alone.

Other mammals, don't rape or hurt their or other children.


i think ur missing the point. its not human instinct to do things like rape. its not hardwritten somewhere in out DNA to go out and rape people. lets take animals for instance, theres many cases of dogs attacking people. dogs dont eat humans, their instinct isnt to bite humans.. its to protect themselves. now, that doesnt justtify any actions. but ok.. the whole point behind a dog attacking a human is to protect themselves, in one way or another they must have felt that they had to protect themselves and thats how they react. go up to any aggresive dog, start messing around with with and attack it and put it in a situation where he's gonna feel like he's in danger... your gotta get bitten. the reason behind people rapping other people isnt because they wanna rape the person.. its because they want some kinda pleassure out of it (obviouslly). the difference is, humans have the ability of reason, thats why not everyone is out there doing watever they want for their own personal gain.. in other words, thats why not everyone is out there rapping someone... but like i said, put a dog in a situation where it feels threaten and you'll probably get bitten. also, results will also vary within species of dogs.. some are obviouslly more aggresive than others

[Miss Evo8]

Dolphins rape eachotherÂ* :buck2:Â* and they are considered to be highly intelligent animals... a male or even two will keep a female "prisoner" for days and repeatedly rape her....Â* :buck2:
they have even tried to rape humans!

[*chris*]

yes terry, i read it. LOL


LOL

Somedays the tEaMM AZZHOLE comes out in me more than others.

I went back and reread the thread from the beginning before I posted so I got in the mood good before that post...

Terry S

it happens ...i appreciate the input though. and i would like to see some other planets ...but i highly doubt we'll see that anytime soon.

NO SHIT?! damn i had no idea dolphins did that.

[Mokaone]

Dolphins rape eachother :buck2: and they are considered to be highly intelligent animals... a male or even two will keep a female "prisoner" for days and repeatedly rape her.... :buck2:
they have even tried to rape humans!

this just proves my point even more.. because like humans, dolphins are (i believe 1 of 3 animals) that actually have sex for pleasure too, as appose to just for having babies.

[Terry S]

Dolphins rape eachother :buck2: and they are considered to be highly intelligent animals... a male or even two will keep a female "prisoner" for days and repeatedly rape her.... :buck2:
they have even tried to rape humans!

this just proves my point even more.. because like humans, dolphins are (i believe 1 of 3 animals) that actually have sex for pleasure too, as appose to just for having babies.


It's called evolutionary variance in a species. There are millions of alleles that effect billions of traits in a trillion different combinations. The desire to rape can be considered "normal" but it's mostly just a genetic or learned defect.

Terry S

[Terry S]

And if anyone wants a great reason to not be catholic, go sit through a full 5 hour Easter Vigil. That'll cure you right up. :D LOL

Terry S

[kEvo VIII]

so if you believe that god killed over 2 million people, because it came from the bible, then why wouldnt you believe everything else that the bible says?

do you just pick random parts of the bible and believe in it?

[One Evo Pinay]

And if anyone wants a great reason to not be catholic, go sit through a full 5 hour Easter Vigil. That'll cure you right up. :D LOL

Terry S

Lol I remember those days. My mom used to make us go to church every single day of Holy Week to do the stations of the cross. What a way to spend Spring Break, eh?

[Mokaone]

so if you believe that god killed over 2 million people, because it came from the bible, then why wouldnt you believe everything else that the bible says?

do you just pick random parts of the bible and believe in it?

i dont believe in god, so i can careless weither the bible said he killed 2 people or 2 million. and as far as picking "random parts of the bible and believe in it". i dont believe that everything in the bible is complete BS. im not gonna open the book and sai "this isnt right, therefore the whole thing is wrong".

for instance, the 10 commandments, i believe some of those are right... just because i dont agree with the other ones doesnt mean imma dismiss the rest that i do agree with. but i dont agree with them in the same way that christians and catholics believe in them.

[Terry S]

so if you believe that god killed over 2 million people, because it came from the bible, then why wouldnt you believe everything else that the bible says?

do you just pick random parts of the bible and believe in it?


Pointing out inconsistencies in the bible is not the same as believing in it.

And dont go trying to claim that bible cherry picking falls on the non-believers. We didn't make the different sects of christianity, the cherry pickers did.

Terry S

[*chris*]

exactly ...inconsistencies. and then questioning that. doesnt mean we believe it.

5hours in a church. fk. that.

[Terry S]

5hours in a church. fk. that.


5 hours in church. Half the time in the dark holding a candle. Listening to a priest speak in english, spanish & korean soft enough to sound like a lullaby that puts you to sleep. Standing & kneeling & singing for the first half and various crazy traditions for the last half (communions or baptisms).

Terry S

[*chris*]

wow ...and why did you participate in this? lol

[kEvo VIII]

I dont understand how you cant basically deny that GOD doesnt even exist(Terry S).Millions and Millions of people have been believeing in GOD for as long as we know. It's very hard to believe that all our ancestors were just stupid and crazy for believeing in god or their religion.

I see some of your guys points, but the bible is one of the oldest books we know of. You may think some of it is flawed because it was written by man, but then how could you trust any book that was written by man?

[*chris*]

the big thing there is ...the bible has no real factual evidence to back up what it says. its mythology.

[Terry S]

wow ...and why did you participate in this? lol


Brother in law's first communion. Oh and his thingy was the last thing done of the night so we couldn't duck out early. It blew. And the little kids running up and down the isles squealing like pigs and crying cranky babies at 11pm was fun too.

Terry S

[Miss Evo8]

wow ...and why did you participate in this? lol


Brother in law's first communion. Oh and his thingy was the last thing done of the night so we couldn't duck out early. It blew. And the little kids running up and down the isles squealing like pigs and crying cranky babies at 11pm was fun too.

Terry S


Do u notice that on Holidays like Xmas and Easter all the "fly by night" Catholics come out? Oh and my favorite of all time (when I did go to church) the screaming out of control kids... and that "pig squeal" that hurts your inner ear and makes u black out for a sec it's so high pitched.. yep I surely dont miss that.. I feel for ya Terry :oops:

[Terry S]

I dont understand how you cant basically deny that GOD doesnt even exist(Terry S).Millions and Millions of people have been believeing in GOD for as long as we know. It's very hard to believe that all our ancestors were just stupid and crazy for believeing in god or their religion.


Your absolutely correct. There were definitely smart and intelligent people in the ancient world. But think about it, how many people took to researching seriously? Not many. But when they did, they did great stuff. Look at any of the great engineering feats of the (recent) ancient world: the Egyptian Pyramids, the Roman Aqueducts, Stonehenge, the Great Wall of China, etc. All those things prove that not everyone of the old world was stupid or crazy. But these were all built by people following totally different beliefs than the current Christian bible. And they sure as hell didn't build these things by the grace of your god (or their god(s)) alone. It took actual research & experimentation on the world around them. Religion isn't needed to make great things or terrible things, but it sure as shit throws people off a path of true research and into one of blind acceptance.



I see some of your guys points, but the bible is one of the oldest books we know of. You may think some of it is flawed because it was written by man, but then how could you trust any book that was written by man?


Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica is a book written by Isaac Newton in the 16th century. In it, he outlines his theories of motion including the theory of universal gravitation. Initially, some of his theories were thought to be incompatible with other accepted laws of the time so they must be wrong. But here's the great part. It was allowed to be considered and expanded upon. It was used by others to further lines of research in similar directions. It posed to others to test it and see if they came upon the same results.

Religious texts do no such thing. They state: this is what is and this is what isn't. Exceptions to these rules is just god working in mysterious ways and need not be trifled upon by us mere mortals.

Why cant you just admit that god has not been found. God has not been proven. If god is a part of this universe, then lets get out there and find him. Maybe he likes poker and beer like we do and we can all have a nice friendly game. Lets stop limiting ourselves to corrupted ancient texts that dont permit free will (like the bible with its dozens of "revisions").

Terry S

[Terry S]

Do u notice that on Holidays like Xmas and Easter all the "fly by night" Catholics come out? Oh and my favorite of all time (when I did go to church) the screaming out of control kids... and that "pig squeal" that hurts your inner ear and makes u black out for a sec it's so high pitched.. yep I surely dont miss that.. I feel for ya Terry :oops:


Well, thankfully i'm not religious and my wife has seen the errors in her parents way when they took them to the occasional holiday mass. My brother in law married a heavily practicing Catholic (who got pregnant out of wedlock with my bro-in-law by the way :D) so he's been "encouraged" into becoming more active in the church. This is why I had to goto the easter mass; it was his first communion. I went to his & his son's baptism too. My wife doesn't like the sister in law, but she loves her brother so we go for him. We both know that if it wasn't for her, he'd never be going to begin with. LOL

Terry S

[Mokaone]

exactly wat chris said. theres no evidence to back up it up, and most importantly, theres no way to put it to the test. besides, the fact that thousands of people believe in the bible doesnt mean its right. for many years people thought the world was flat, they also thought the sun revolved around the sun.

[Terry S]

Terry S, kEvo VIII, gevo, Knower, Mokaone, RPD_FKTARD, *chris* and 1 Guest

Busy place... lol

Terry S

[mattsevo]

Arguing with religious people is like arguing with a brick wall :D
No matter what you say, they will say god created.
So all this arguing is useless, prove to us non believers that God exist WITH EVIDENCE
NOT THE FREAKING BIBLE THAT SOME ONE WROTE
To this day, NO ONE I REPEAT NO ONE can prove with EVIDENCE that god exists.
dont give me this BIBLE SAID THIS BS when it is just another person writing it

[Terry S]

Arguing with religious people is like arguing with a brick wall :D


Arguing with a brick wall is nothing like a religious person arguing with a non-religious person.

When you argue with a brick wall, the only thing you hear is your own words.

When you argue with someone with a differing opinion, you get a discussion.

Being religious (or non-religious) and surrounding yourself with people of the same persuasion is the same as talking to a brick wall if you think about it. Circle jerking may feel nice but at the end of the day, your just being really gay.

Terry S

[*chris*]

LOL terry

[x[corwyn]]

Religion has been, and will always be a tool to use on humanity. I would say that thousands of years ago it was effective in keeping a bit more law and order. Lets think of it... I mean I can come up with, my personal (and made up god) Dude. Now Dude created everything cool. He made the Oceans, he made the Mountains, he made everyone have the capacity and ability to create all this bitchen stuff so we can have fun. Dude likes bitchen waves, curvy roads, hot chicks, and a good party. Now if you go against Dude then when you die you get to be just as boring and lame as you were in life. Hey teh only way you can find out if I am lying is if you die. Go ahead and prove me wrong. I dare you! BTW we need to do some proper Dude worshiping soon. I say a GMR run, and then a BBQ, followed by some Wii and poker at my place. Everyone is welcome to convert and oh yea.... The Dude hat can be passed around to make donations for my church... LOLOL

[kEvo VIII]

fuck... i just wrote a long as response for terry S, and then the power shut down at my work..

God must not like me today.. LOL
A little FYI for everyone, i'm not a religous person... i dont attend church, but i do believe that a god does exist.



Arguing with religious people is like arguing with a brick wall :D
No matter what you say, they will say god created.
So all this arguing is useless, prove to us non believers that God exist WITH EVIDENCE
NOT THE FREAKING BIBLE THAT SOME ONE WROTE
To this day, NO ONE I REPEAT NO ONE can prove with EVIDENCE that god exists.
dont give me this BIBLE SAID THIS BS when it is just another person writing it

This story might not be enough to prove that a God exists, but it was enough for me...

about 6 years ago my brother got shot in the head 2 times, severly damaging the cereberal cortex(sorry if i spelt that wrong) and putting him in a coma for 4 months. we were advised by more than 5 different doctors that he would never wake up, and if he did, he'd pretty much be a vegetable. my mother and I went to church everyday for those 4 months.

I used to hate church, and didnt believe in god.. used to view religion and god the same way as some of you. But i prayed my heart out for those 4 months...cried everyday... and one day my Bro just randomly woke up. and whats even more amazing is that he's not a vegetable. Doctor cant explain how he woke up, or how his brain is even functioning so well. He is a little different, but pretty much the same.


I know i know.... touching story.. mushy mushy..
but that, was enough evidence for me.

[x[corwyn]]

I am glad that your brother came out of that a lot better than he could have.

I gotta ask though, why would God fix your brother up, and not others that have had similar conditions? Do you honestly believe God picks and chooses those that get a "miracle"? Wouldnt it make more sense that the Human body is still a huge mystery, and that its not remotely understood well enough to explain such an occurence?

Take for instance people that take placebos that are experiencing those effects. Would that be a miracle, or an unexplained phenomenon that just shows the limits of our understanding of our brains which could be described as limitless and beyond our imagination on its abilities.

Just to digress a bit and go back to the placebo effect, people were given morphine for a while then given a placebo that the patients were told was Morphine and they still experienced the effects from Morphine. Now here is where it gets weird, the same people were given an inhibitor drug that blocked the morphine, and were not told that they had been given this, and then experienced pain. There is speculation that this starts going into quantum mechanics. There was a lot more information, and it was all scientific and very interesting.

I think the Universe is a far weirder and more interesting place than we give it credit for. I think just giving it to God, or thinking it was an act of God is a quick way of just saying we dont know, so some Dude did it for us.

I just have a hard time believing someone would spare one person randomly rather than others. If God is up there I think he lets things go and watches what happens. I cant imagine Him just being random and inconsistent about what he does/doesn't allow to happen.

[One Evo Pinay]

I dont understand how you cant basically deny that GOD doesnt even exist(Terry S).Millions and Millions of people have been believeing in GOD for as long as we know. It's very hard to believe that all our ancestors were just stupid and crazy for believeing in god or their religion.

And for a very long time, everyone BELIEVED that the Earth was flat.

Yes yes, it's a Men In Black quote, but that's what I thought of when I read your statement. I'm not trying to say that there will come a day when someone will prove that "God" does not exist, I'm just saying that there's always a possibility of proving something wrong. Just like science. A theory will always be a "theory" until proven otherwise. That's the beauty of science. :)

[GokuSSJ4]

5hours in a church. fk. that.


5 hours in church. Half the time in the dark holding a candle. Listening to a priest speak in english, spanish & korean soft enough to sound like a lullaby that puts you to sleep. Standing & kneeling & singing for the first half and various crazy traditions for the last half (communions or baptisms).

Terry S
is that the only kind of church you have been part of Terry?
and is that all you know about church ?
Not all denomanitations (in christianity) are like that ... not at all !

[x[corwyn]]

5hours in a church. fk. that.


5 hours in church. Half the time in the dark holding a candle. Listening to a priest speak in english, spanish & korean soft enough to sound like a lullaby that puts you to sleep. Standing & kneeling & singing for the first half and various crazy traditions for the last half (communions or baptisms).

Terry S
is that the only kind of church you have been part of Terry?
and is that all you know about church ?
Not all denomanitations (in christianity) are like that ... not at all !


Ever been to a methodist? Baptist? 7 Day Adventist? I have... In fact one of my best friend's Dad is a minister for 7 Day. I'm pretty much family. But I'm not converting. LOL The Loaf is enough to discourage membership alone!

My point being if you take every Christian Sect and you boil it down, it comes to a minister getting his panties in a wad and changing things up a bit. They really are all the same. If anything the Catholic ones are kinda cool...but I dig the Goth stuff.

Oh yea cant forget my personal favorite.... http://www.dogma-movie.com/pics/church/images/buddychrist1.jpg

[Miss Evo8]

The Catholic churches are the most ornate and beautiful! and how can we not admire the Sistine Chapel.. religious or not.. and damn REAL gold on the ceiling!
http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/Europe/gifs/Italy8.gif

[GokuSSJ4]

]
Ever been to a methodist? Baptist? 7 Day Adventist? I have... In fact one of my best friend's Dad is a minister for 7 Day. I'm pretty much family. But I'm not converting. LOL The Loaf is enough to discourage membership alone!

I have been to Adventist, Baptist, renew baptist, pentecostal (sp) Jehova Witness (my grandma used to be one) catholic (when i went to a private catholic school)
but like i said,. not all are the same.. well at least within the hispanic community.. not sure how things are for you white folks loll...

[RPD_FKTARD]

i like the movie sister act.. they're all heros

[kEvo VIII]

i like the movie sister act.. they're all heros

aaaaahahahahaha... WTF

[Granny Shifter]

]
Ever been to a methodist? Baptist? 7 Day Adventist? I have... In fact one of my best friend's Dad is a minister for 7 Day. I'm pretty much family. But I'm not converting. LOL The Loaf is enough to discourage membership alone!

I have been to Adventist, Baptist, renew baptist, pentecostal (sp) Jehova Witness (my grandma used to be one) catholic (when i went to a private catholic school)
but like i said,. not all are the same.. well at least within the hispanic community.. not sure how things are for you white folks loll...

If you don't mind me asking, what denomination are you part of?

[cky_bam_marg]

OMG!!! what happend to the other 26 pages of this threat i was on page 11 and planned on coming back to it and now i come back and its all gone!!! what happened captain?

[GokuSSJ4]

OMG!!! what happend to the other 26 pages of this threat i was on page 11 and planned on coming back to it and now i come back and its all gone!!! what happened captain?
thread probably got all cleaned up... loll .. this area happens to be a moderated area , regardless what the political section disclaimer might say. I believe Drmosh posted a sticky thread stated that.

[*chris*]

are you sure it was this thread? i only remember the 10pages that are currently listed...

[cky_bam_marg]

ya im sure it was this thread i remember there being i believe 36 pages and i got up to page 11 and then needed to go get my g/f from school and wrote a sticky to come back and read this thread it was like a good week or maybe week and half ago!

[Blaze]

I don't see why this thread would have been trimmed, unless it went off topic like it is now.
The poli section is not a dumping ground for idle chit chat. That's why we have IRC.

I'm not saying we did it, but I'm not saying we won't. Please respect the debate started by the OP and keep on topic. If you want to chat, pick up a phone or go on IRC.

[airforce1]

A few years back, let's just say life was a complete bitch for me then.Â* I was nowhere near the Christian I was before by choice and let's just say God was (almost) completely removed from my life.Â*

I was driving on the 710 North late one evening, crying, just thinking about how life was unfair and why I was completely miserable.

Well, if you pass the 105 FWY there is/was a huge billboard sign for the city of Southgate.Â* Most Long Beach guys know which sign I'm talking about.Â* It's a lighted sign usually advertising commercial ads and city announcements, changing every 5-10 secs or so.Â* Well, as I was passing it, it lit up saying "Soften your heart".Â* I was like, "WTF??".Â* Woah.Â* I looked at the rearview mirror to confirm what I actually saw and and it was still there.Â* It was.

I am probably the biggest skeptic out there, I am still an imperfect Christian, the biggest sinner out there, of sound mind, don't drink the established religion kool-aid, and find the religious right laughably outrageous.

Please, any level of disbelief, scoff, discredit of character, language, or internet verbage will not sway what I saw.Â* I saw it.Â* What I saw as a direct communication to me from God.Â* It sounds outrageous.Â* It is.Â* Even for a skeptic like me.Â* But I cannot explain it away.Â* You can place my Stage 1+ Evo, career, family, and my meager belongings over a huge firepit in the Grand Canyon and it will not sway what I saw.Â* I still get goosebumps when I think about it.Â* In essence, He knew that Bible passage was the most important lesson I learned in college that had a direct impact on my life and how i became a Christian.Â* His communication was personal.

"Soften your heart"Â* What does it mean?Â* You can look here for more insight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower

Yes, the wikipedia link also talks about its validity but I'm not concerned about that.Â* He was in essence reminding me of my belief/disbelief.Â* Thru a frickin city billboard.

Discuss.

[NMREJ6]

^^ i know the billboard you're talking about. What an interesting story. I "personally" believe that was a form of a miracle. What has changed, stayed the same since that encounter?

[Terry S]

OMG!!! what happend to the other 26 pages of this threat i was on page 11 and planned on coming back to it and now i come back and its all gone!!! what happened captain?


Um.. no posts in here have been deleted. 100% positive there were not more than 11 pages.

Terry S

[Terry S]

A few years back, let's just say life was a complete bitch for me then. I was nowhere near the Christian I was before by choice and let's just say God was (almost) completely removed from my life.

I was driving on the 710 North late one evening, crying, just thinking about how life was unfair and why I was completely miserable.

Well, if you pass the 105 FWY there is/was a huge billboard sign for the city of Southgate. Most Long Beach guys know which sign I'm talking about. It's a lighted sign usually advertising commercial ads and city announcements, changing every 5-10 secs or so. Well, as I was passing it, it lit up saying "Soften your heart". I was like, "WTF??". Woah. I looked at the rearview mirror to confirm what I actually saw and and it was still there. It was.

I am probably the biggest skeptic out there, I am still an imperfect Christian, the biggest sinner out there, of sound mind, don't drink the established religion kool-aid, and find the religious right laughably outrageous.

Please, any level of disbelief, scoff, discredit of character, language, or internet verbage will not sway what I saw. I saw it. What I saw as a direct communication to me from God. It sounds outrageous. It is. Even for a skeptic like me. But I cannot explain it away. You can place my Stage 1+ Evo, career, family, and my meager belongings over a huge firepit in the Grand Canyon and it will not sway what I saw. I still get goosebumps when I think about it. In essence, He knew that Bible passage was the most important lesson I learned in college that had a direct impact on my life and how i became a Christian. His communication was personal.

"Soften your heart" What does it mean? You can look here for more insight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower

Yes, the wikipedia link also talks about its validity but I'm not concerned about that. He was in essence reminding me of my belief/disbelief. Thru a frickin city billboard.

Discuss.


Not to completely laugh at you (although I am on the inside) but that's a hilarious story.

Reminds me of a great quote I saw not long ago: "I wish my lawn was Emo so it would cut itself."

:2funny:

Terry S

[cky_bam_marg]

OMG!!! what happend to the other 26 pages of this threat i was on page 11 and planned on coming back to it and now i come back and its all gone!!! what happened captain?


Um.. no posts in here have been deleted. 100% positive there were not more than 11 pages.

Terry S


ok sorry well maybe i was day dreaming or something about it!!! damn i think im going crazy!

[mattsevo]

This story might not be enough to prove that a God exists, but it was enough for me...

about 6 years ago my brother got shot in the head 2 times, severly damaging the cereberal cortex(sorry if i spelt that wrong) and putting him in a coma for 4 months. we were advised by more than 5 different doctors that he would never wake up, and if he did, he'd pretty much be a vegetable. my mother and I went to church everyday for those 4 months.

I used to hate church, and didnt believe in god.. used to view religion and god the same way as some of you. But i prayed my heart out for those 4 months...cried everyday... and one day my Bro just randomly woke up. and whats even more amazing is that he's not a vegetable. Doctor cant explain how he woke up, or how his brain is even functioning so well. He is a little different, but pretty much the same.


I know i know.... touching story.. mushy mushy..
but that, was enough evidence for me.



So what about people that pray everyday and still receive no help at all? via my aunt praying everyday for my cousin to become a normal person and not mentally retarded.
Why does god only help your brother and not others that are suffering way more and pray more than you?

The universe is here because of the big bang. No this world isn't created by a supernatural way.Â* And no there isn't god. There must be a reason why the majority of scientists are athiest, because science proves that there is NO NEED for a god for this world to function.

[EVONATE]

1st i want to give a shout out to all the fellow believers in this Topic.

God Bless You!!! and continue to pray for our fellow non believing friends that God brings the right person in there life to reveal truth and understanding.

And also to say to all its not about religion, church, being good, hal mary's ect ect. Its about your personal Relationship and faith in the Lord God.....Yes its that simple guys!!!! John 3:16 sums it up, but its better to read the book of John as a whole.

Oh and Satan did not kill anyone...He has no authority to take life...
(staying on topic)

[EVONATE]

FYI TO ALL!!!

On the ABC website on May 5th(CHANGED TO MAY 9TH SEE BELOW) there will be a bibleless debate between Christians and athiests and the Christians will prove the existance of God without using the bible. You donot want to miss this one!!! O0

[x[corwyn]]

FYI TO ALL!!!

On the ABC website on May 5th there will be a bibleless debate between Christians and athiests and the Christians will prove the existance of God without using the bible. You donot want to miss this one!!! O0


Really? Will they make George Bush burst into Flame?

George Bush's first words upon hearing he was President, " Where is your God now? MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"

[EVONATE]

ABC rescheduled the broadcast to capture a larger audience. They will broadcast the entire debate on ABC.com on Wednesday, May 9 at 1:00 p.m. EST

[NMREJ6]

^^ thnks for the heads up O0

[*chris*]

thats such a stupid time to air that... seriously, how many people are at home on wed at noon/1 and have time to watch it?

[markymark]

I'll be watching lol

[Granny Shifter]

Thanks for the heads up!

[LiquidLife]

I don't feel like reading everything, so I just have a question...

What about the power that God bestowed upon certain individuals, and those individuals killed people?

Like Sampson?

[evo87]

so what ever happened to the ABC show.

[BUDLoNG]

"He has no authority to take life..."
is this cosmic law # 45849303847 ?

lame

[D3 Motorsport]

This story might not be enough to prove that a God exists, but it was enough for me...

about 6 years ago my brother got shot in the head 2 times, severly damaging the cereberal cortex(sorry if i spelt that wrong) and putting him in a coma for 4 months. we were advised by more than 5 different doctors that he would never wake up, and if he did, he'd pretty much be a vegetable. my mother and I went to church everyday for those 4 months.

I used to hate church, and didnt believe in god.. used to view religion and god the same way as some of you. But i prayed my heart out for those 4 months...cried everyday... and one day my Bro just randomly woke up. and whats even more amazing is that he's not a vegetable. Doctor cant explain how he woke up, or how his brain is even functioning so well. He is a little different, but pretty much the same.


I know i know.... touching story.. mushy mushy..
but that, was enough evidence for me.



So what about people that pray everyday and still receive no help at all? via my aunt praying everyday for my cousin to become a normal person and not mentally retarded.
Why does god only help your brother and not others that are suffering way more and pray more than you?

The universe is here because of the big bang. No this world isn't created by a supernatural way. And no there isn't god. There must be a reason why the majority of scientists are athiest, because science proves that there is NO NEED for a god for this world to function.


Mattsevo I am sorry about your cousin. But you got to understand...
1. Nobody is predestined to die or live on this earth. God did not decide beforehand when you will die and how you will die.
2. God did not make your cousin mentally retarded as a direct act. Bad things happen because of chance, sin, or because of our own carelessness.

When a person is skydiving and his parachute doesn't open, we realize that sometimes mechanical failures do exist. When a person dies after smoking packs of cigarettes, we realize that somethings are bad for our health. We can die because someone just randomly decides to shoot us, the reasons? ...sin. In your case, your cousin being mentally retarded, you should realize that genetic defects can happen. God does not sit up there and just chooses to let a person or live. It is because of sin. You got to stop looking at God as a kid with a magnifying glass that kills little ants. It is because of Sin the world is in pain, hurt, and suffering. So the question you shouldn't be asking is "why would God allow my cousin to stay mentally retarded", the question you should be asking is, "Why would God create the human body with potential in getting diseases or illnesses." Before man sinned, we were meant to live forever. But after sin entered the world, our bodies were not eternal anymore. So our bodies can potentially get sick or die. Everyone who eats poison will die, but everyone who gets stung by a bee won't die....there will be some who die and some who will live. No one knows how they will die because we have free will, and based on our choices decides our future. Since God is the alpha and the omega, he knows how we will die and how we will live our lives. But it doesn't mean he chooses that fate or destiny, we still have free will. So your probably wondering, Why would God put a tree and tell Adam and Eve not to eat it, if he knows they will? It is free will and free choice. Imagine if God wanted everyone to be the same nice and caring people, we would be robots. Instead he gives us free choices...the same free choices that allow people to do horrible things to another.

You tell me that your aunt prays hard for your cousin, i take your word for it.Amen i hope she does. But you have to realize that God answers prayers with "yes", "no", and "wait" or other answers. Just because we pray for something, it does not mean we will always get a yes answer. There are many times in the bible where God has said no to extend a person's life...but there has been times where God has said yes to extend a person's life. God in the bible even raised up people from the dead. If its in His will, it will be done. So don't think God as a mean person who doesn't love your cousin. He loves your cousin, me, and you. That is why he sent his only son to be crucified to pay for all of our sins.

The earth started with the big bang? Could you possibly tell me how. Educate me.

[x[corwyn]]

This story might not be enough to prove that a God exists, but it was enough for me...

about 6 years ago my brother got shot in the head 2 times, severly damaging the cereberal cortex(sorry if i spelt that wrong) and putting him in a coma for 4 months. we were advised by more than 5 different doctors that he would never wake up, and if he did, he'd pretty much be a vegetable. my mother and I went to church everyday for those 4 months.

I used to hate church, and didnt believe in god.. used to view religion and god the same way as some of you. But i prayed my heart out for those 4 months...cried everyday... and one day my Bro just randomly woke up. and whats even more amazing is that he's not a vegetable. Doctor cant explain how he woke up, or how his brain is even functioning so well. He is a little different, but pretty much the same.


I know i know.... touching story.. mushy mushy..
but that, was enough evidence for me.



So what about people that pray everyday and still receive no help at all? via my aunt praying everyday for my cousin to become a normal person and not mentally retarded.
Why does god only help your brother and not others that are suffering way more and pray more than you?

The universe is here because of the big bang. No this world isn't created by a supernatural way. And no there isn't god. There must be a reason why the majority of scientists are athiest, because science proves that there is NO NEED for a god for this world to function.


Mattsevo I am sorry about your cousin. But you got to understand...
1. Nobody is predestined to die or live on this earth. God did not decide beforehand when you will die and how you will die.
2. God did not make your cousin mentally retarded as a direct act. Bad things happen because of chance, sin, or because of our own carelessness.

When a person is skydiving and his parachute doesn't open, we realize that sometimes mechanical failures do exist. When a person dies after smoking packs of cigarettes, we realize that somethings are bad for our health. We can die because someone just randomly decides to shoot us, the reasons? ...sin. In your case, your cousin being mentally retarded, you should realize that genetic defects can happen. God does not sit up there and just chooses to let a person or live. It is because of sin. You got to stop looking at God as a kid with a magnifying glass that kills little ants. It is because of Sin the world is in pain, hurt, and suffering. So the question you shouldn't be asking is "why would God allow my cousin to stay mentally retarded", the question you should be asking is, "Why would God create the human body with potential in getting diseases or illnesses." Before man sinned, we were meant to live forever. But after sin entered the world, our bodies were not eternal anymore. So our bodies can potentially get sick or die. Everyone who eats poison will die, but everyone who gets stung by a bee won't die....there will be some who die and some who will live. No one knows how they will die because we have free will, and based on our choices decides our future. Since God is the alpha and the omega, he knows how we will die and how we will live our lives. But it doesn't mean he chooses that fate or destiny, we still have free will. So your probably wondering, Why would God put a tree and tell Adam and Eve not to eat it, if he knows they will? It is free will and free choice. Imagine if God wanted everyone to be the same nice and caring people, we would be robots. Instead he gives us free choices...the same free choices that allow people to do horrible things to another.

You tell me that your aunt prays hard for your cousin, i take your word for it.Amen i hope she does. But you have to realize that God answers prayers with "yes", "no", and "wait" or other answers. Just because we pray for something, it does not mean we will always get a yes answer. There are many times in the bible where God has said no to extend a person's life...but there has been times where God has said yes to extend a person's life. God in the bible even raised up people from the dead. If its in His will, it will be done. So don't think God as a mean person who doesn't love your cousin. He loves your cousin, me, and you. That is why he sent his only son to be crucified to pay for all of our sins.

The earth started with the big bang? Could you possibly tell me how. Educate me.


Ask and you shall receive. http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html

Now with science fact directly contradicting the Bible and its stories how can people really rely on it? How can the "translations" from Men time and time again really be relied upon as fact? It is an interesting book, and it has a lot of interesting information, but for me to place my faith when so much has been proven wrong (not to mention the f'n looneys that are on the conservative right) I cant do that.

There is way more to this life and existence than what primitive man took from an oral history, rife with conflicts and misinformation and presented it as a religion. Add to that the machinations of men that wanted to use religion (and still do use religion) as a tool for controlling the masses.

If I had my way I would do away with religion in this world entirely. Its far more dangerous, and evil than any drug, or weapon created. The Human Race should be better than that.

[D3 Motorsport]

I don't feel like reading everything, so I just have a question...

What about the power that God bestowed upon certain individuals, and those individuals killed people?

Like Sampson?


During the years of Sampson, since Israelites (God's chosen people) were disobeying God and worshiping other Gods, God allowed them to be defeated by their enemies. Now God had promised them the land of Canaan which was ruled by the Philistines. So during that time, Sampson's parents wanted a child for many years but couldn't get any. So they prayed and prayed and then an angle of God appeared and told them they would have a son and..., "This son is to be reared to be totally dedicated to God. He is also to be reared under a Nazarite vow. He will do great deeds for your country in service to God." To be reared under a Nazarite vow meant that he never was to cut his hair, never to eat raisins or grapes, not to drink wine and never to touch a dead body. He was to live his whole life totally dedicated to service and to the will of God.
So when Sampson is born, he is under the Nazarite vow, and by his manhood he is freaky strong. So during this time Israelites repent for their sins, and God is with them again and allows them to conquer their enemies. During this time Sampson was a great warrior and killed many enemies. He killed 1000 mean with a jaw bone of donkey. So basically there was constant war between the Israelites and Philistines. Then God grants the Israelites peace, and Sampson becomes a judge. But Sampson breaks all his vows and falls in love with a philistine women. And basically to sum it up, the Philistine woman, Delilah, gets paid to find out how Sampson is so strong. So she tries everyday to get the secret out of him, and everytime Sampson would lie. And finally Sampson tells her that his hair is the key and so when Sampson falls asleep, she cuts his hair and calls the guards. The guards come in....Sampson can't do anything.... take him prisoner....burn his eyes out...chains him up to stones ...and is forced to ground grain into flour. So as days go bye, he hears that all the leaders and generals of the philistines empire is going to be gathered in the Temple of Dagon (temple of philistines God). So he asked God, "Oh, God please forgive me for my sins and please use me for your glory one more time." Festival comes, once everyone is in, Sampson cries out "Oh, God, please be with me one more time. Allow me to avenge my people who are held in bondage by these people who worship a false and worthless god. Let your name be avenged." He pulls on both pillars, causing everything to fall...everyone dies.

Now since you have little overview of the story, you got to realize that at this time, it was War time. People were killing each other left and right. It wasn't only Sampson, Philistines killed Israelites too and vice versa. Now why God chose Israelites as his chosen people? I do not know, it was his will though. God promised the land of Canaan to the Israelites, and they had to fight in order to drive these people out. It was part of Gods plan for the Israelites. Sampson, you can say was, one of God's tools that he chose to get the job done sort of. But im pretty sure that God wasn't expecting Sampson to turn away and break his vows. Why Sampson did this ? Because of free will. So after he had turned away from God, the power of God left him. He was weak. But when he repented...God came back and renewed his strength in order for him to do God's will for him. So I guess you are wondering Why would God allow people to kill people? In Sampson's case, he was a tool of God and God used him to help drive the Philistines out of the Promised Land. It was a time a war and so their was a lot of killing. I hope this kinda answers your question? I, myself, am still learning and have alot of things to learn. about the bible. If you have questions feel free to ask.

[D3 Motorsport]

]






This story might not be enough to prove that a God exists, but it was enough for me...

about 6 years ago my brother got shot in the head 2 times, severly damaging the cereberal cortex(sorry if i spelt that wrong) and putting him in a coma for 4 months. we were advised by more than 5 different doctors that he would never wake up, and if he did, he'd pretty much be a vegetable. my mother and I went to church everyday for those 4 months.

I used to hate church, and didnt believe in god.. used to view religion and god the same way as some of you. But i prayed my heart out for those 4 months...cried everyday... and one day my Bro just randomly woke up. and whats even more amazing is that he's not a vegetable. Doctor cant explain how he woke up, or how his brain is even functioning so well. He is a little different, but pretty much the same.


I know i know.... touching story.. mushy mushy..
but that, was enough evidence for me.



So what about people that pray everyday and still receive no help at all? via my aunt praying everyday for my cousin to become a normal person and not mentally retarded.
Why does god only help your brother and not others that are suffering way more and pray more than you?

The universe is here because of the big bang. No this world isn't created by a supernatural way. And no there isn't god. There must be a reason why the majority of scientists are athiest, because science proves that there is NO NEED for a god for this world to function.


Mattsevo I am sorry about your cousin. But you got to understand...
1. Nobody is predestined to die or live on this earth. God did not decide beforehand when you will die and how you will die.
2. God did not make your cousin mentally retarded as a direct act. Bad things happen because of chance, sin, or because of our own carelessness.

When a person is skydiving and his parachute doesn't open, we realize that sometimes mechanical failures do exist. When a person dies after smoking packs of cigarettes, we realize that somethings are bad for our health. We can die because someone just randomly decides to shoot us, the reasons? ...sin. In your case, your cousin being mentally retarded, you should realize that genetic defects can happen. God does not sit up there and just chooses to let a person or live. It is because of sin. You got to stop looking at God as a kid with a magnifying glass that kills little ants. It is because of Sin the world is in pain, hurt, and suffering. So the question you shouldn't be asking is "why would God allow my cousin to stay mentally retarded", the question you should be asking is, "Why would God create the human body with potential in getting diseases or illnesses." Before man sinned, we were meant to live forever. But after sin entered the world, our bodies were not eternal anymore. So our bodies can potentially get sick or die. Everyone who eats poison will die, but everyone who gets stung by a bee won't die....there will be some who die and some who will live. No one knows how they will die because we have free will, and based on our choices decides our future. Since God is the alpha and the omega, he knows how we will die and how we will live our lives. But it doesn't mean he chooses that fate or destiny, we still have free will. So your probably wondering, Why would God put a tree and tell Adam and Eve not to eat it, if he knows they will? It is free will and free choice. Imagine if God wanted everyone to be the same nice and caring people, we would be robots. Instead he gives us free choices...the same free choices that allow people to do horrible things to another.

You tell me that your aunt prays hard for your cousin, i take your word for it.Amen i hope she does. But you have to realize that God answers prayers with "yes", "no", and "wait" or other answers. Just because we pray for something, it does not mean we will always get a yes answer. There are many times in the bible where God has said no to extend a person's life...but there has been times where God has said yes to extend a person's life. God in the bible even raised up people from the dead. If its in His will, it will be done. So don't think God as a mean person who doesn't love your cousin. He loves your cousin, me, and you. That is why he sent his only son to be crucified to pay for all of our sins.

The earth started with the big bang? Could you possibly tell me how. Educate me.


Ask and you shall receive. http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html

Now with science fact directly contradicting the Bible and its stories how can people really rely on it? How can the "translations" from Men time and time again really be relied upon as fact? It is an interesting book, and it has a lot of interesting information, but for me to place my faith when so much has been proven wrong (not to mention the f'n looneys that are on the conservative right) I cant do that.

There is way more to this life and existence than what primitive man took from an oral history, rife with conflicts and misinformation and presented it as a religion. Add to that the machinations of men that wanted to use religion (and still do use religion) as a tool for controlling the masses.

If I had my way I would do away with religion in this world entirely. Its far more dangerous, and evil than any drug, or weapon created. The Human Race should be better than that.


These are theories and assumptions though, Scientist hasn't proven it 100%. And you said so much has been proven wrong in the bible? Give me some flaws or something that contradicts in the bible you found. This should be entertaining. Your right men do make mistakes, but the bible was written by the inspiration of God through men. It wasn't by men alone. Also depending on what version of the Bible you read, there are different translations. If you want the real o.g. stuff, Hebrew and Greek is accurate translation. But aside from translation errors, the whole idea behind each verse and chapter are the same. The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution.

[LiquidLife]

The original Bible was in Greek, not Hebrew, blah blah blah....

[Terry S]

*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S

[mattsevo]

*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S


ROFL, agreed! I rather not put my faith into something that has ABSOLUTELY NO fact to prove it *cough* bible.Â* I rather believe in science where there are FACTS even when it can't prove everything.Â* Facts > no facts.

Just off the top of my head, the bible says humans are 10,000 yrs old? or a few thousand yrs old and the earth is 10,000 yrs old? I'm not sure but 10,000 yrs old max.Â*
There are sedimentary rocks where the dead bones of different species are stuck on by layers.Â* The older the species bones are, the lower on the rocks they are since the water washes them.Â* Older = on bottom.Â* By testing the rocks, Homo sapiens were found on these rocks and they were 275,000 years old.Â* This is just one on the top of my head I can think of.Â* So is that enough for you to prove the bible bogus?Â* Search "geologic column" in google.

[x[corwyn]]

Creationism says that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that the layers of the earth look older than they appear due to erosion. Now I'm not a geologist, but I have been a field assistant for one of my best friends who is a geologist. You can go out to the black hills out by barstow and see where ancient volcanos have created layers millions of years old visible just by walking there and looking. You can see the recent volcanic rock just thousands of years old, to the granite layers that are millions. The youngest eruption that had been there was older than the Creationsist's version of earth being born. That alone is enough to believe its wrong.

Now I know there are conflicting passages in the bible, and some you just say, "Huh?" to. I'll pull some of them up later. However since its infallible, do you follow all those?

[Terry S]

And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S


Yup now thats the Jewish Book.

Or how about the book of Mormon.

Or how about Qur'an the book of Muslims.

All manipulated and changed to fit the views of Men that want power and/or control.

The New Testament however is no different, huh?

Bonus, if you believe in the wrong one, you are going to hell!

I do have faith however. Just like we stopped believing in older religions that predated or coincided with Early Judaism or Christianity, realizing the ridiculousness, and idiocy of those beliefs, I have Faith that the various incanations of the Old Testament and its offshoots of belief will be consigned upon the rubbish heap of failed religions. Now I'm worried about what beliefs will follow afterwards, as we have seen the worst of Men create Scientology, and idiotic cults that prey upon the weak minded or that have so little belief in themselves that they need the crutch of religion.

[Terry S]

]
Yup now thats the Jewish Book.

Or how about the book of Mormon.

Or how about Qur'an the book of Muslims.

All manipulated and changed to fit the views of Men that want power and/or control.

The New Testament however is no different, huh?

Bonus, if you believe in the wrong one, you are going to hell!

I do have faith however. Just like we stopped believing in older religions that predated or coincided with Early Judaism or Christianity, realizing the ridiculousness, and idiocy of those beliefs, I have Faith that the various incanations of the Old Testament and its offshoots of belief will be consigned upon the rubbish heap of failed religions. Now I'm worried about what beliefs will follow afterwards, as we have seen the worst of Men create Scientology, and idiotic cults that prey upon the weak minded or that have so little belief in themselves that they need the crutch of religion.


Now i'm a pretty staunch atheist but I have to admit that there is some very valuable stuff in the scientology theory. It's kinda like boot camp. At face value it blows ass and seems pointless, but the unspoken perks you gain from it but dont realize until after its over makes it all worthwhile.

Again, I can say this from personal experience with multiple people who have actually worked for the church for a number of years. And these people now refuse to go back to the church due to the typical internal politics yet they daily use the lessons and morals they learned from the teachings.

Terry S

[x[corwyn]]

Every religion has its good points, and makes some valuable contributions towards making people become better. Maybe even scientology...Though I'm not so sure I would want to empty my pocketbook and go into debt, plus if I have a contrary view be sued for even more....Or even worse jailed without the ability of getting a decent trial.

In fact lets visit Scientology...It is a cult. A weird one at that. I figure since I am bashing Christianity, Muslims, and Jews, I might as well piss off the people that have the least sense of humor about it... So lets see. Billions of years ago a bunch of people were nuked on this planet. Now thankfully scientology at least thinks people are smart enough to realise the earth is that old, but I digress. The source of our negative emotions and issues we have is based off of us absorbing these people's essence. Ok. So for a small fee of a few thousand dollars I can get tested and told that I need to purge these bad feelings or body thetans as they call it. I have to work up their chart to get to some sort of Level where they get godlike powers from purging these body thetans. Just make sure you have your checkbook and credit cards handy. No thanks. Not to mention they dont believe in medicine or psychology or anything except the power of your own mind to heal yourself...Mind you, to get that information you need deep pockets. No thanks. At least they havent started any crusades though...but you never know.

If you want to read up on Scientology feel free to...here. http://www.xenu.net/

[D3 Motorsport]

The original Bible was in Greek, not Hebrew, blah blah blah....


The old testament was written in Hebrew, New Testament written in Greek







*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S


ROFL, agreed! I rather not put my faith into something that has ABSOLUTELY NO fact to prove it *cough* bible. I rather believe in science where there are FACTS even when it can't prove everything. Facts > no facts.

Just off the top of my head, the bible says humans are 10,000 yrs old? or a few thousand yrs old and the earth is 10,000 yrs old? I'm not sure but 10,000 yrs old max.
There are sedimentary rocks where the dead bones of different species are stuck on by layers. The older the species bones are, the lower on the rocks they are since the water washes them. Older = on bottom. By testing the rocks, Homo sapiens were found on these rocks and they were 275,000 years old. This is just one on the top of my head I can think of. So is that enough for you to prove the bible bogus? Search "geologic column" in google.


K christianity is not only proven by the bible, there are historical facts as well. If you would take the time to actually READ it, you will find historical events that took place.

Im guessing they used carbon dating to find out how old these bones were. Carbon Dating is not 100% accurate, also archaeologists have found trees still in one piece that penetrate through almost 3 layers of earth. Each layer represents different time periods right?, so how can a tree be in 3 time periods at once?



And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S


The two are different yes, the old testament is about a nation, and the new testament is for our generation. Yet the two are not contradictory, find facts that are contradictory in the bible terry. The old and new testament are linked together and in no way contradictory.

*snip*Bonus, if you believe in the wrong one, you are going to hell! *snip*

That is not true. where do YOU get your information from?

[x[corwyn]]

The original Bible was in Greek, not Hebrew, blah blah blah....


The old testament was written in Hebrew, New Testament written in Greek







*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S


ROFL, agreed! I rather not put my faith into something that has ABSOLUTELY NO fact to prove it *cough* bible. I rather believe in science where there are FACTS even when it can't prove everything. Facts > no facts.

Just off the top of my head, the bible says humans are 10,000 yrs old? or a few thousand yrs old and the earth is 10,000 yrs old? I'm not sure but 10,000 yrs old max.
There are sedimentary rocks where the dead bones of different species are stuck on by layers. The older the species bones are, the lower on the rocks they are since the water washes them. Older = on bottom. By testing the rocks, Homo sapiens were found on these rocks and they were 275,000 years old. This is just one on the top of my head I can think of. So is that enough for you to prove the bible bogus? Search "geologic column" in google.


K christianity is not only proven by the bible, there are historical facts as well. If you would take the time to actually READ it, you will find historical events that took place.

Im guessing they used carbon dating to find out how old these bones were. Carbon Dating is not 100% accurate, also archaeologists have found trees still in one piece that penetrate through almost 3 layers of earth. Each layer represents different time periods right?, so how can a tree be in 3 time periods at once?



And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S


The two are different yes, the old testament is about a nation, and the new testament is for our generation. Yet the two are not contradictory, find facts that are contradictory in the bible terry. The old and new testament are linked together and in no way contradictory.

*snip*Bonus, if you believe in the wrong one, you are going to hell! *snip*

That is not true. where do YOU get your information from?


So if you are Jewish, but dont believe in Christ you get to have your sins washed away and go to heaven as the Christians say? Last I checked you have to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior or you dont go to heaven. So whats left after Heaven?

So how about the Muslims that believe in Mohammed? Christians do not follow his teachings. Muslim faith says that Christians and especially Jews dont get to go to Heaven. What was the name of that alternative to Heaven again? Rhymes with Bell, I think....

So how come there are so many divisions and sects of religions? How come Christianity isnt even unified? You have Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc etc that they are all different. Why is that again? Because in each case the church divided again and again based on Men's interpretations of the bible, or sought personal power from religion. Religion is a tool to control the masses. If you dont believe that thats fine. Just watch TV on sunday morning's and have your credit card ready.

Oh yea just to have a bit more fun... The Bible tells that the earth is flat. Its kinda hard to argue with that one as saying that carbon dating isnt reliable...or just using your eyes to look at millions of years of volcanic activity. Its there BTW just east of barstow in the black hills. You can have a look and see the earth of millions of years ago available for viewing.

Back to the earth is flat. Christian doctrine repeats over and over again...Christians killed people for saying the world was round. Now if the Bible is right we have some weird crap going on. People wind up on the other side of the world by going in the other direction. Or the world somehow became round after the bible was written. Or the Bible is flat wrong.

[D3 Motorsport]

]




The original Bible was in Greek, not Hebrew, blah blah blah....


The old testament was written in Hebrew, New Testament written in Greek







*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S


ROFL, agreed! I rather not put my faith into something that has ABSOLUTELY NO fact to prove it *cough* bible. I rather believe in science where there are FACTS even when it can't prove everything. Facts > no facts.

Just off the top of my head, the bible says humans are 10,000 yrs old? or a few thousand yrs old and the earth is 10,000 yrs old? I'm not sure but 10,000 yrs old max.
There are sedimentary rocks where the dead bones of different species are stuck on by layers. The older the species bones are, the lower on the rocks they are since the water washes them. Older = on bottom. By testing the rocks, Homo sapiens were found on these rocks and they were 275,000 years old. This is just one on the top of my head I can think of. So is that enough for you to prove the bible bogus? Search "geologic column" in google.


K christianity is not only proven by the bible, there are historical facts as well. If you would take the time to actually READ it, you will find historical events that took place.

Im guessing they used carbon dating to find out how old these bones were. Carbon Dating is not 100% accurate, also archaeologists have found trees still in one piece that penetrate through almost 3 layers of earth. Each layer represents different time periods right?, so how can a tree be in 3 time periods at once?



And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S


The two are different yes, the old testament is about a nation, and the new testament is for our generation. Yet the two are not contradictory, find facts that are contradictory in the bible terry. The old and new testament are linked together and in no way contradictory.

*snip*Bonus, if you believe in the wrong one, you are going to hell! *snip*

That is not true. where do YOU get your information from?


So if you are Jewish, but dont believe in Christ you get to have your sins washed away and go to heaven as the Christians say? Last I checked you have to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior or you dont go to heaven. So whats left after Heaven?

So how about the Muslims that believe in Mohammed? Christians do not follow his teachings. Muslim faith says that Christians and especially Jews dont get to go to Heaven. What was the name of that alternative to Heaven again? Rhymes with Bell, I think....

So how come there are so many divisions and sects of religions? How come Christianity isnt even unified? You have Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc etc that they are all different. Why is that again? Because in each case the church divided again and again based on Men's interpretations of the bible, or sought personal power from religion. Religion is a tool to control the masses. If you dont believe that thats fine. Just watch TV on sunday morning's and have your credit card ready.

Oh yea just to have a bit more fun... The Bible tells that the earth is flat. Its kinda hard to argue with that one as saying that carbon dating isnt reliable...or just using your eyes to look at millions of years of volcanic activity. Its there BTW just east of barstow in the black hills. You can have a look and see the earth of millions of years ago available for viewing.

Back to the earth is flat. Christian doctrine repeats over and over again...Christians killed people for saying the world was round. Now if the Bible is right we have some weird crap going on. People wind up on the other side of the world by going in the other direction. Or the world somehow became round after the bible was written. Or the Bible is flat wrong.


Once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and repent of your sins, you go to heaven. But Christianity isn't all about saying "i believe" and you get a ticket to heaven. It's more than that.

What does Muslim religion have to do Christianity? What about the Muslim Religion? As far as I know, in the Muslim religion anyone who does not believe in ALLAH and that Mohammad is his prophet is considered an infidel and must be destroyed, i do not know if Muslim religion believes in hell too. But there is a heaven and a hell.

The reason why there are so many different sects in Christianity is because of how they interpret certain passages in the bible. Mostly to do with practices or how one should live. For example, one sect will believe that it is wrong for women to have body piercings and one sect will think its okay. But Christianity isnt about these rules and regulation. It is about a relationship with God. Works don't get you to heaven, faith does. But all christians believe in one thing, the only way to heaven is being saved by accepting Christ as your Saviour. Catholic is separate from Christianity. Yes Christianity did come out of Catholicism, but their main i guess idea is different. On the top my head i know that Catholicism is more about if you pray alot and do good works, you will go to heaven. Like for example, if you pray enough for a person that died, that will person will go up to heaven because of your prayers. And also if you want your sins forgiven, the father acts as a mediator btwn you and God. Theres no direct relationship with you and God. But in Christianity, theres a relationship because of you and God directly through prayer and the bible. It is not about works, its about faith. Faith produces works.
As far as "christians" on t.v. that do infomercials or make you pay for "MIRACLE WATER" or "HOLY CLOTH" , those people have the wrong idea of Christianity. You do not need any Miracle Water or Material item for you to be blessed. Only God can give you blessings and take it away. So don't stereotype Christians solely based on the Christians you see on t.v. They are sending out the wrong message.

Where does the bible tell that the earth is flat? The bible and christians we are not ignorant of science. Please do not think we use Christianity to explain everything, it is not our crutch. The bible has science in it too. So i encourage you to find a passage in the bible where its talking about the earth being flat. Don't start stating facts that aren't true. The earth is round and we revolve around the sun. We all believe that. Anyone who does not is a little coo coo. haha.
I do not know where you get your info but if you could do some research and tell me where you get this idea that Christian doctrine thinks the earth is flat, that would be great. The earth was round when it was created and will always be round.

But what's the point of you guys asking all these questions? If it was all true, would you start believing or would it be just excuses because you do not want to change and your comfortable the way you are. If you are, then its your choice because God gave you the freedom of choice. We could go on for years asking questions and answering them and debating but if the reason why you ask questions is to know if God exists, answering questions won't do that. You need to experience God. Remember its about a relationship, not about rules and regulations.

if you are interested in at least finding out what Christianity is all about (not just assume), I can help you with that.

[RPD_FKTARD]

screw that... let's believe in Buddhism instead.. hundreds of gods to choose from...

[D3 Motorsport]

if thats what you want to do, then its your choice.
But it is kind of ignorant of you to just say "screw it" to anything if you did not even attempt to research it a little bit.

just my opinion

[x[corwyn]]

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

The Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"

"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"

"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"

Here is excellent proof that the author of the corrupted bible thought that the earth was a flat one.

1. Job 37:33 He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth.

Riaz : Lighting doesn't travel around the earth the biblical god thought his earth was a small, flat one.

2. Job 38:44 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

Riaz : If the author of the bible thought of a globe earth then the last question in job 38: 44 should of read "Who stretched a measuring line around it?"

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Riaz : Does a sphere have ends, and how can you grab the ends of a sphere? Only a flat disc or square could be grabbed and shaken in this way.

We could go on for years though with this. God may or may not exist. I just know that I see nothing of proof of the God thats in the Bible and what correlates with what I see, hear. touch, feel, and have personally learned. I do believe more that Men will find ways to corrupt and create stories for the purpose of either holding sway or pushing their moral ethics over others. More death, destruction and corruption has come from religion than any other weapon. The silliness and barbarism that we witness now from the Muslims was exactly how Christians were just a few hundred years ago. That is the legacy and relationships I see when I think of religion. Most of the people that follow religion tend to be the most hypocritical animals I see.

I will however follow one thing from the Bible. Treat others how you yourself would be wished to be treated. That is all the religion this world, or any world needs. The BS about what food you can eat, what you can do that harms no one, censorship, going out and pushing your religion at swords point, basically everything we have been taught that Christianity stands for.... We dont need that. The world needs to grow up past that. Religion brings its own evil.

[D3 Motorsport]

]

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

The Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"

"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"

"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"

Here is excellent proof that the author of the corrupted bible thought that the earth was a flat one.

1. Job 37:33 He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth.

Riaz : Lighting doesn't travel around the earth the biblical god thought his earth was a small, flat one.

2. Job 38:44 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

Riaz : If the author of the bible thought of a globe earth then the last question in job 38: 44 should of read "Who stretched a measuring line around it?"

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Riaz : Does a sphere have ends, and how can you grab the ends of a sphere? Only a flat disc or square could be grabbed and shaken in this way.

We could go on for years though with this. God may or may not exist. I just know that I see nothing of proof of the God thats in the Bible and what correlates with what I see, hear. touch, feel, and have personally learned. I do believe more that Men will find ways to corrupt and create stories for the purpose of either holding sway or pushing their moral ethics over others. More death, destruction and corruption has come from religion than any other weapon. The silliness and barbarism that we witness now from the Muslims was exactly how Christians were just a few hundred years ago. That is the legacy and relationships I see when I think of religion. Most of the people that follow religion tend to be the most hypocritical animals I see.

I will however follow one thing from the Bible. Treat others how you yourself would be wished to be treated. That is all the religion this world, or any world needs. The BS about what food you can eat, what you can do that harms no one, censorship, going out and pushing your religion at swords point, basically everything we have been taught that Christianity stands for.... We dont need that. The world needs to grow up past that. Religion brings its own evil.


Okay before I start talking, like i told you, the old testament was written in Hebrew. Now Hebrew is a very complicated language, where one Hebrew word needs sentences in English to translate it. Theres words in the English that simply can't translate the words in Hebrew. Now with that said, when the bible was translated into English, there are some passages that are tad bit different in words because simply the English language can't translate some of the Hebrew passages. Also the language has a lot of similes and metaphors almost like poetry, so not all the passages are to be taken literally.

Also when you read the bible, you can't just take snips and pieces and expect to understand what the passage means. You need to read it in context and you gotta think about the historical events that were going on this time.

Ill explain these verses very briefly because of time constraints and work. But if you want, I will be more than happy to maybe email you full thorough translation and explanation of these verses with context so you can understand it clearly. Let me know.

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

- Okay so Isaiah is basically a prophetical book that will tell what will happen at the end of times. In chapter Eleven, it talks about how God is going to restore his kingdom again and reunite the tribes because Assyria and Northern kingdoms have grown to power and wounded the nation of Israel. Verse 1 talks about how "there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse(Messiah aka God) and Stem meaning literally the stump of a tree cut close by the roots, representing the depressed state of David's Kingdom. And when God comes back the will be restoration and "wolves also shall dwell with the lamb" like in eden. Basically its saying all the tribes will be brought back together and there will be peace among the tribes. now verse 12, is saying there will be restoration of both tribes, Judah and Israel. Israel which is the "outcast" (masculine) and Judah which is "dispersed" (feminine) will be restored. The passage is showing that connect between the tribes and how there will be restoration. So the "four corners of the earth" in Hebrew translation means "wings of the earth" , it does not mean LITERALLY corners of the earth. Four Corners is basically referring to the North, South, West, and East. Meaning that the dispersed tribe of judah will come from the north, south, west and east; meaning they will come from all over the earth. get it?

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

-Now this was a vision that was seen by the prophet John, He saw the 7 seals that were going to be opened in the end of times. The four corners like I said, meant North, South, East and West. What John is talking about here with the wind blowing on the earth, sea and tree is dealing with the 5th seal being opened. The firth seal is the martyred remnant. And in this time, the martyred pray out, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not jduge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" This passage is the answer to their prayers, that God will save the gentiles (us) and the jews (God's chosen people), and not the people who don't believe.


Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
- to take hold of the ends of the earth means "to spread itself over the earth to its utmost bounds in a moment" Not to literally take and hold the ends of the earth.


Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

-Ends of the earth meaning, from everywhere, meaning North, South, East, West. The result of God's judgments on the Jews will be that both the Jews when restored, and the Gentiles who have witnessed those judgments, shall renounce idolatry for the worship of Jehovah. Fulfilled partly at the return from Babylon, after which the Jews entirely renounced idols, and many proselytes were gathered in from the Gentiles, but not to be realized in its fulness till the final restoration of Israel. (similar to the JOB verse)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

-The tree is referring to the Assyrian empire and in the midst of the earth--denoting its conspicuous position as the center whence the imperial authority radiated in all directions. So basically Ends of all the earth means the vastest of its authority.

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

-okay when you read this you got to realize that Devil is a power being. But he is not as powerful as God because he was created by God. Dont be mistaken, the Devil has super powers so he could've shown Jesus, all the kingdoms. I wasn't there so I couldn't tell you exactly how, but im pretty sure there were supernatural power going on. So in this case, the "exceeding height" of the "mountain" from which this sight was beheld would favor the effect to be produced. Satan again is a supernatural being and I'm pretty darn sure he can show all the kingdoms of the earth, because he does live on earth.



"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
-Again if you read it in context and in Hebrew, it means the "earth is firmly fixed by His(God's) power"


"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
-God is described as a King entering on His reign, and, for robes of royalty, investing Himself with the glorious attributes of His nature. The result of His thus reigning is the durability of the world.

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"
- This verse basically means to let all know that the government of the world is ordered in justice, and they shall enjoy firm and lasting peace


"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
This is King James Version: "The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to his place where he arose."
-In Ecclesiastes chapter 1 its theme is : all is vanity. in verse four it says "one generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. (kjv)" Meaning nothing last forever on the earth. The worth Hasteth means "panting" in Hebrew. Which is taken from from a runner (Ps 19:5, "a strong man") in a "race." It's is a basically a metaphor. It applies rather to the rising sun, which seems laboriously to mount up to the meridian, than to the setting sun; the accents too favor MAURER, "And (that too, returning) to his place, where panting he riseth."

-"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
KJV: 3He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

-This is talking about however zigzag the lightning's course; or, rather, it applies to the pealing roll of the thunder. God's all-embracing power.
-The word "ends" literally means, "wings," "skirts," the habitable earth being often compared to an extended garment (Job 38:13; Isa 11:12).

"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
KJV: 24For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

- Which means God sees ALL of which is under the earth.

1. Job 37:33 He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth.
-JOB 37 only has 1-24, the reference is wrong

2. Job 38:44 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

- Job 38 only has verses 1-41, again reference is wrong.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

-To the ends of the earth means again to spread itself over the earth to its utmost bounds in a moment.

[D3 Motorsport]

Also I am surprised that an atheist like you, is using rebuttals from what seems to be like a person in Muslim belief. How can you use scripture when you do not believe in it? Moreover, you say that churches are corrupt and so, but have you even gone to Christian church? if you have, more than once to even get a feel? If you suggest the bible is full of contradictions, have you even read the bible? Taken time to actually "FIND" contradictions? Or are you just saying it because you read stuff that might be contradictions and just blindly agree on it? You say you haven't felt Gods presence, but how do you expect to feel God's presence , when you do not want to do anything with God? What you see of this world is not of God, your forgetting the other guy, Satan.

I mean i think if you have so much faith in atheism right and that there is no God? You should have knowledge of it to back up your view. Not just take other people's work and agree with it, But to actually do some research to see if they are truly correct. To simply just believe in something without knowing what and why is stupid. Even I am constantly trying to learn more about the Bible and the history behind it and you know what? I have yet to find any contradictions in the Bible.

The bible is not intended to teach us how things work and why things work. It is use a tool for us to learn how to live a Godly life in Christ.

*I will however follow one thing from the Bible. Treat others how you yourself would be wished to be treated. That is all the religion this world, or any world needs. The BS about what food you can eat, what you can do that harms no one, censorship, going out and pushing your religion at swords point, basically everything we have been taught that Christianity stands for.... We dont need that. The world needs to grow up past that. Religion brings its own evil.*

- Amen, I do agree with you. Treat others how you yourself would be wished to be treated, that is one thing that Jesus taught. It is the second most important commandment that Jesus Christ gives us. I have no idea what "CHRISTIANITY" you are talking about but it is not about what you are saying like censorship, what foods you can eat, etc...Christianity is about believing in God, and that God in order to save mankind had to send down this only Son in human form to die for our past, present, and future sins. It is about striving to live a life like Christ. It is not about rules and regulations. Now I do agree with you, some religious people do make mistakes. If you look at Israelites journey with God, they are a bunch of stupid people who do not know any better. If you do not believe me, read the bible. Also look at the Crusades? They say they did it for God...but that was not true. The pope wanted Power. There will be false prophets and teachers among Christianity. It is inevitable..why? because there is sin in this world and Satan is trying everything he can to stop the Gospel from spreading...also because the bible says there are and there will be false teachers and prophets. And the commercials you see of "Christian pastor's" trying to sell "miracle water" and "using the bible to get rich", that is not what Christianity is about and they are sending out the wrong message. Cmon...its T.V.

What I am trying to say is in any kind of group, more specially religious group, there will be a people who do not convey the message or are hypocrites. Because everyone is not perfect and we have free choice. Take for example, Catholic priest who rape boys. I'm pretty sure that is not what Catholicisms is about but they do have corrupted members. In Christianity, you see those people that have blow horns and start condemning people to hell...those people are not conveying the true meaning of Christianity. They do not represent what Christianity is all about, It is not about condemning people for their sins. That is why I hate to see people hate Christianity simply because they see the blow horn guy cursing and people and condemning people to hell. It is not about that, that is a totally different and wrong message.

I really hope you see past the Christianity you have imagined in your head, and see what it is really about.

[Terry S]

"...By extension, "cult" has come to connote the total cultural aspects of a religion, as they are distinguished from others through change and individualization. Well-known global cults include Islam and Christianity..."

At least Scientology makes more sense than the cult of Christianity.

Terry S

[D3 Motorsport]

I wonder where you got that information from? LET ME TAKE A WILD GUESS....A NON CHRISTIAN? DING DING DING! look Terry its good that you go out and try to find things that "seem" like good arguments to prove christianity is whatever you think it is. I encourage to keep on doing it...even I try to research on the bible. But have you done your own research? I mean if you think Christianity is a for fools...why don't you provide some hardcore reasons to back up what you think? Just by finding articles and quotes, and not actually RESEARCHING on whether its true or not...and further more actually BELIEVING in it and just nodding and agreeing with it...that is very stupid. But hey, I don't blame you...its your decision. But i mean what i think is if you believe in something, you should know enough about to back it up, instead of copy and pasting quotes by people who believe the same thing as you. BY doing that your not proving anything.

*At least Scientology makes more sense than the cult of Christianity.*

What I don't get is if you think all religions are bogus, how do you even consider Scientology to make more sense than Christianity. How can you consider the other superior than the other, when you don't even believe in God. Christianity is a religion totally different from any religions out there. Why is it that everyone wants to prove Christianity wrong. Nobody cares about other religions...its just Christianity. Why is it that the number 1 sold book is the Bible? SO do you KNOW what you believe in? or do you THINK you know what you believe in?

Look, I am sorry that you had to see people "who THINK they are Christians" act not like Christ. Do you think we think that the Crusades was a right thing to do? OF COURSE not...it was a terrible thing. It wasn't for God's glory it was for the Popes, man. If you check your History it's true, God was used just as an excuse to fight for the Crusades. The pope told them that their sins would be forgiven if they fought, but you know what? thats is not true...No pope nor MAN has any power to forgiven sins. Only God does...That is why he sent his son to die on the cross for our sins and transgressions. There are stupid people out there Terry ...and you know it...even I know it. There are people who mess it up for the whole group. And I admit theres people in Christianity who mess it up for the whole group by doing the total opposite of what Christianity really means. Because everyone is not perfect, we were born with a sin nature. So I feel sorry and apologize if you saw the people who were corrupted in Christianity. But I encourage to see past those fakes, and see what Christianity is truly about.

[Terry S]

Well, I haven't been reading any of your responses yet but I will soon.

In a quick response, Scientology at least teaches people to believe in themselves and to try to better themselves and those around them just because its the right thing to do.

Christians dont do any of that for any reason other than to convert people.

Terry S

[kEvo VIII]

Well, I haven't been reading any of your responses yet but I will soon.

In a quick response, Scientology at least teaches people to believe in themselves and to try to better themselves and those around them just because its the right thing to do.

Christians dont do any of that for any reason other than to convert people.

Terry S

who the hell told you that?

[Terry S]

who the hell told you that?


How is any of that incorrect?

Terry S

[airforce1]

Guys, this is a long running thread and I don't think any arguments are going to change Terry's mind. This will go back and forth until it turns into a bash fest. I've seen threads like these on EvoM "any christian evo owners out there" and such and it turns into just dribble. Leave him alone and have him think it through.

Terry, much respect for you to stand up to what you think. I will see you again on the Team Azzholez thread.

[RPD_FKTARD]

so .. how many did satan kill again?

[Terry S]

My mind isn't the one that needs changing. At least I dont live in a fantasy land with pixie dust and unicorns. LOL

Terry S

[D3 Motorsport]

Christianity is not about converting people...if you would READ my posts, you will learn to understand it because CLEARLY your thought of Christianity is clouded and your misjudging it.





Well, I haven't been reading any of your responses yet but I will soon.

In a quick response, Scientology at least teaches people to believe in themselves and to try to better themselves and those around them just because its the right thing to do.

Christians dont do any of that for any reason other than to convert people.

Terry S

who the hell told you that?


hey look Terry has chosen not to believe, its his decision. Our commission is to spread the word of God, not covert people. That is why Terry, I say Christianity is not about converting. You don't believe? Try to find it in the bible, where you think Christians should convert people. I already mentioned this Terry...those people all the streets condemning people to hell, that is not what Christianity is about. Unfortunately there are people like that, they have good intentions but how they convey is wrong. I know it gets you angry that Terry is saying nonsense but hey Terry think hes right. We can't do anything to change that...Right Terry. This just proves no matter how much I answer your questions about Christianity and how much truth there is...you won't change, all these questions that are just an excuse, a first wall of defense for people who do not want to change. So im just saying Terry, learn the right facts before talking your mouth please.





who the hell told you that?


How is any of that incorrect?

Terry S


How is anything you said correct? is the real question...wheres your research and evidence???



Guys, this is a long running thread and I don't think any arguments are going to change Terry's mind. This will go back and forth until it turns into a bash fest. I've seen threads like these on EvoM "any christian evo owners out there" and such and it turns into just dribble. Leave him alone and have him think it through.

Terry, much respect for you to stand up to what you think. I will see you again on the Team Azzholez thread.


I am in no way trying to convert Terry into Christianity...I am just posting here because I can't , as a Christian, stand to see people talking nonsense about Christianity, especially wrong information. I am simply here to correct their statements with evidence...no more. So Terry don't think Im forcing you to believe Christianity is right, Im just correcting your false and hollow statements.



so .. how many did satan kill again?


Let me make this simple and easy for you to understand. Satan can't go around killing people...why? because God doesn't allow that. Sure he can tempt you and wreak havoc...but only if God allows. Why does God even allow Satan to ATTEMPT to tempt you? Because God knows your limits, he will never go past those limits. Also you got to remember, God does not tempt you...He tests you. Read JOB in the bible, and you will see what I am talking about if you really want to learn. I really encourage you to read it if you have any doubts in what I am saying, not to say you are doubting my words and stuff.




My mind isn't the one that needs changing. At least I dont live in a fantasy land with pixie dust and unicorns. LOL

Terry S


Fantasy land with pixie dust and unicorns...is that what you think Christianity is? That just shows how ignorant people can be, all talk but no evidence. You haven't even read my posts and still you continue to bash on Christianity with no research yourself. But if you think Pixie dust and Unicorns make you happy, go for it. O0

[Terry S]

Again, slammed at work today so no intelligent posts by me yet again.

One of these day's i'll have time to read and respond to the last couple pages.

But seriously, how is "spreading the word" any different than "we need liebensraum?"

It's all convert and conquer any way you cut it.

Religion is just like Sesame Street; full of wacky puppets ending with a common sense moral every episode.

Terry S

[D3 Motorsport]

Look if that is what you think, I can't change that.

I'm just here to provide the truth, and the right information with evidence. So that when other people see this, they will know the right information and the right idea of Christianity.

Spreading the word, is spreading the good news. It is not spreading news just to convert. It is news that should be shared, that God lives and he died for our sins. And that we are saved.

All im asking is since you have so many questions and doubts about Christianity, read what I have to say. And if you have more questions about Christianity, I will be more than happy to try to answer your questions. But it just comes to this, answering questions won't truly bring one person to know God.

[GokuSSJ4]

*snip* The bible is not changing, science is. I dont know about you, but I rather put my faith in something that is never changing and never wrong, than something that is always changing and has errors in it and is based on ASSUMPTIONS and THEORIES.. like evolution. *snip*


Biggest flaw and error in religion right there. In fact, its big enough to invalidate the entire concept. Stasis is death, adaptation is life. Universal Rule #1. No denying or debating it.

Not to mention its the biggest hypocritical statement by religious persons ever. The bible (in any version) ESPECIALLY so. That thing has been hacked 'n slashed more times than Michael Jacksons face.

Terry S


ROFL, agreed! I rather not put my faith into something that has ABSOLUTELY NO fact to prove it *cough* bible. I rather believe in science where there are FACTS even when it can't prove everything. Facts > no facts.

Just off the top of my head, the bible says humans are 10,000 yrs old? or a few thousand yrs old and the earth is 10,000 yrs old? I'm not sure but 10,000 yrs old max.
There are sedimentary rocks where the dead bones of different species are stuck on by layers. The older the species bones are, the lower on the rocks they are since the water washes them. Older = on bottom. By testing the rocks, Homo sapiens were found on these rocks and they were 275,000 years old. This is just one on the top of my head I can think of. So is that enough for you to prove the bible bogus? Search "geologic column" in google.
not really! there has been plenty of studies within the christian community that show that the earth has been in created for million and millions of years... dont based everything of Adan and Eve.. theres also with doing some research some passages in the bible that speak of it.



And christians cant use anything from the old testament. It's a completely different book with a completely different set of values and stories. The two are contradictory.

Terry S
says who?
i love the old testament and some of the things that have been spoken there by prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah and many more...
sorry havent read or kept up with this topic at all ..

[Miss Evo8]

So.... anyone know how many people died in the name of "Christ"?
:buck2:

[x[corwyn]]

So.... anyone know how many people died in the name of "Christ"?
:buck2:


Way too many. Thats the only correct answer.

So the world wasnt created thousands years ago, the world was never flooded, everything in the old testament is BS, and the world was never said to be flat. But but but the bible is correct and doesnt lie. Sorry. The bible IS the bible. Old and New testament. I say any part of it is hogwash ALL parts of it is hogwash. Its an interesting book and has a lot of interesting information, but lets face it. It isnt something people should put a religion on. To be honest I dont think there should be any religion at all. Some people still need it I guess though. But I dont believe thats the "Truth" of all. There is far far far more to this life and what comes after than we can remotely guess at. Simplistic essays from the distant past from primitive man isnt the answer.

[mattsevo]

Hmmm... who created god?
Does anyone know? nope.

Heres my two cents on how god was created.

One of the earliest people that exist WAY BEFORE 6,000 years old COUGH bible :idiot2: asked himself, hey, who the hell created people?!!!! Since that person lacked the technology of knowing how organisms evolve, and couldn't explain it, he thought that a super imaginary person created humans and everything!

If this doesn't make sense, then its ok because this is how people were created according to the bible ;)

[chavo_del_8]

Here's my two cents, share your opinions in a timely, relevant matter. Not 4 months later O0.

[mattsevo]

Here's my two cents, share your opinions in a timely, relevant matter. Not 4 months later O0.


Oh wow, sorry I was away for 4 months geeeeeeeeeeez! Cry some more T_T

[EVOL EDO]

lol i was here for like the first 2 pages of this thread then i was off this site for a few months and forgot about it until now.Â* i had no idea it turned into what it did.Â* interesting read though. good to read different peoples opinions and questions.

[*chris*]

oh it was a scene man

[EVOL EDO]

lol yeah i could tell. wish i could have joined looked like fun times.

[*chris*]

yah i couldnt believe we ended up with this many pages. it just blew up. haha

[chavo_del_8]

Here's my two cents, share your opinions in a timely, relevant matter. Not 4 months later O0.

Oh wow, sorry I was away for 4 months geeeeeeeeeeez! Cry some more T_T


lol :'(

[sphinx]

]


So.... anyone know how many people died in the name of "Christ"?
:buck2:


Way too many. Thats the only correct answer.

So the world wasnt created thousands years ago, the world was never flooded, everything in the old testament is BS, and the world was never said to be flat. But but but the bible is correct and doesnt lie. Sorry. The bible IS the bible. Old and New testament. I say any part of it is hogwash ALL parts of it is hogwash. Its an interesting book and has a lot of interesting information, but lets face it. It isnt something people should put a religion on. To be honest I dont think there should be any religion at all. Some people still need it I guess though. But I dont believe thats the "Truth" of all. There is far far far more to this life and what comes after than we can remotely guess at. Simplistic essays from the distant past from primitive man isnt the answer.


well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*

[sphinx]

lol, my bad, should have read past the first post of the page...my bad...

[Terry S]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S

[sphinx]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....

[mattsevo]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....

[sphinx]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....


lol, the same way you can ;) lol

[mattsevo]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....


lol, the same way you can ;) lol


What did I guarantee?

[sphinx]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....


lol, the same way you can ;) lol


What did I guarantee?


whoops, my bad, sorry, thought that u were the other guy, didnt even bother to check the names.

unfortunately, i cant speak, nor read ancient hebrew.....however, there are those who can translate it, and im comparing what we have nowadays to what was written in those scrolls, everything is basically the same, with only minor changes.

[mattsevo]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....


lol, the same way you can ;) lol


What did I guarantee?


whoops, my bad, sorry, thought that u were the other guy, didnt even bother to check the names.

unfortunately, i cant speak, nor read ancient hebrew.....however, there are those who can translate it, and im comparing what we have nowadays to what was written in those scrolls, everything is basically the same, with only minor changes.


Your definition of "minor changes" maybe UBER changes to others ;)

[sphinx]

well, just to correct one thing....

Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing"

Isaiah 40:22 "22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell"

Ignorant church leaders said the earth was flat, and behing held up, or whatever, the Bible didnt say that :)

my .02

*steps back out*


Just because the NIV says the circle of the earth and such, doesn't mean thats what the bible says. Thats just what it says now. I guarantee you it didn't say that a couple versions ago.

Terry S


how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


And how can you guarantee that.....


lol, the same way you can ;) lol


What did I guarantee?


whoops, my bad, sorry, thought that u were the other guy, didnt even bother to check the names.

unfortunately, i cant speak, nor read ancient hebrew.....however, there are those who can translate it, and im comparing what we have nowadays to what was written in those scrolls, everything is basically the same, with only minor changes.


Your definition of "minor changes" maybe UBER changes to others ;)


of course, one mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter, and that is always why there will be conflict between ppl about the Bible, everyone thinks something different, and has all the arguments to prove he is "right".

[Terry S]

how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


Dude, dont play dumb. You know that they "update" the bible every hundred years or so to "fix" the "inconsistencies". The bible used to have a ton of shit (read: dragons & unicorns) they dont have in the newer versions.

Terry S

[sphinx]

how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


Dude, dont play dumb. You know that they "update" the bible every hundred years or so to "fix" the "inconsistencies". The bible used to have a ton of shit (read: dragons & unicorns) they dont have in the newer versions.

Terry S


where, and when was that, if you have any kinda site i could check out on that, i'd love too.

You see, for all those thousands of years that no one had access to the dead sea scrolls. So if what you said is true.....how come when they were discovered and compared, that they found very little changes.

Besides, only the clergy back during the dark ages, and even up into modern times, where the only ones that "read" the bible to the ppl, who werent allowed to even own one. So if there were inconsitancies, they would have no need of changing scripture merely to hide them, cause no one would have been able to tell the difference anyways, all they had to do was do what they still do now, lie from the Pulpit.

[Terry S]

Dont turn this into a ploy to get me to waste my time looking up bible crap again. I'm done doing that over and over. For the first three hundred years of the "bible" it was all a bunch of random crap that didn't mesh. So around 300ad the heads of the bigger "sects" got together and decided which ones would keep them in power and which ones were destructive to their cause.

Terry S

[sphinx]

Your talkin about the council of nicea, and at that point i have to agree with you, because of the fact that it was presided over by a non-christian/pagan emporer.

however, the first 2/3 of the bible were written long before christ, and spread over thousands of years, how come they're all in agreemant with each other, including scripture that may have been deemed as dooming to that same council, they could have pulled them out, and we never would have known.

Like i said, i believe that the bible we have now a days, may be incomplete, that doesnt make it wrong. especially when like i said before they match with the ancient scrolls.

[matth1054]

how can you guarantee that? i bet if the old scrolls were read, it would say about the same as it does today....


Dude, dont play dumb. You know that they "update" the bible every hundred years or so to "fix" the "inconsistencies". The bible used to have a ton of shit (read: dragons & unicorns) they dont have in the newer versions.

Terry S


whoa....you should really research your facts before making jokes about something you know nothing about...since you neither possess a degree in doctrine or apologetics--you are just as ignorant as the next man. YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T FORM JOKING CHARTS AND GRAPHS AS "FACTS" cause it only exploits your biased/ignorant opinion.

[KRNEVO8]

agreed, do your RESEARCH buddy. Don't go talking like you know anything. Your just making yourself look like ignorant and narrowminded person.

But im going to guess your just too lazy to even do a little reading or researching yourself...so you will keep on thinking we came from primordial soup of the cosmos.

[Terry S]

First off, all of the stuff i originally posted way back when was someone elses stuff. I merely copy and pasted.

Secondly, you can call me narrow minded or ignorant all you want, but that doesn't take the fairy tales out of the "OG" bible.

Terry S

[matth1054]

ignorance was definately proven in your "copying and pasting" of someone else's opinion...your definately right in calling the BIBLE "og" cause "there are more than 5,300 known greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Add over 10,000 Latin Vulgate and at least 9,300 other early versions and we have more than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence." ---that is more copies than the next closest transcribed book ever..the Illiad by Homer with 643.

[skylinefolife]

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/12768/god-v-satan.png

And god wins as the greatest biblical mass murderer! Satan needs to start backing up all this talk about his "bad-ass-ness" by killing loads of people.

Terry S


So... According to this: Hitler > God? Oh, shit! I'm praying for him tonight! (Sarcasm)

Sorry for t3h necro bump, but this thread delivers. Granny Shifter, Terry S, Goku... You guys did work. That was a good read :)

The problem I have with Science: One event (big bang) started it ALL.
Religion (Christianity): One THING started it ALL. Well, he wasn't a "human" since man wasn't there before him, so what was he?

The question is simple: who was here before him or that? That's the only problem I have and hate thinking about it.




The earth is so infinitely small it's ridiculous. We are nothing. We are almost literally an infinitely unremarkable speck of nothing in the universe and we are most definitely not unique. Think thats wrong? Why dont we go prove it instead of guessing. Guessing didn't make cell phones. Guessing didn't make the internet.

Finally, if you want to know my "religion" I could be called a Humanist basically but I dont practice shit. I'm too busy trying to improve my own position first, so I can improve the quality of life for my family, so I can provide a better life for those around me and finally so I can be a contributing member to the continued existence of the human race before I die. (personal belief :D)

Terry S (I dont believe anyone will actually read this... lol)


Dude... That's awesome. That's how I feel. I'm glad I found this thread. It was hard reading through over 13 pages :'( The last 2 I just gave up.Â* I'm glad I'm not the only one that's into the "Universe" lol We really are disposable in this world.

You know what's funny? Somewhere in this Universe, perhaps millions or billions of planets support life and I bet you they are always in constant debate over the same thing... If they can't speak our language, they sure as fuck speak about a "God". Nobody wants to die alone :')

I simply just want to say this was the only thread I actually enjoyed reading through.Â* Â*[;

[vial8or]

LMAO quit necro bumping....n00b


lol

[skylinefolife]

Hey, fuck you!

I actually read 13 pages of it and now I feel happy because some people share the same views as me.

[;

[x[corwyn]]

Hey, fuck you!

I actually read 13 pages of it and now I feel happy because some people share the same views as me.

[;


they are just being polite ;)

Someday all of us will become a little less barbaric and not need dieties and other such crutches to prop up society.

[Robdog]

Did God create the dinosaurs??????

[vial8or]

Did God create the dinosaurs??????


Did God create monster torque??

hahaha

[Robdog]

HAHa My torque #s have been thread jackin all over socalevo...

[vial8or]

Hahaha I've noticed.

[matth1054]

]


Hey, fuck you!

I actually read 13 pages of it and now I feel happy because some people share the same views as me.

[;


they are just being polite ;)

Someday all of us will become a little less barbaric and not need dieties and other such crutches to prop up society.


God is the Creator of the heavens and earth. Surely you can't believe that randomness creats structure (EVERYTHING IN SCIENCE AND MATH TELLS US SO). And your lack of knowledge and uncertainty of a creator which leads you to guess up your own "personal belief" is foolish and just that...a personal belief. Just cause you don't understand trigonomotry does not mean it doesn't make sens or since you can't understand the theory of relativity doesn't mean that it's not completely factual. Some things involve a bit of faith couple with reason, history, science etc...Remeber you cant see the wind but you know its there you feel it and see its affects. God is real, his son Jesus Christ was a "real man" who walked the earth 2000 years ago hence our date structure A.D.(latin word:ANODOMONY=IN THE YEAR OF OUR lORD) and you are accountable to him for your life, choices and decision. Choose him!

[Robdog]

What about the evolution thing^^ forget that science lesson

[Robdog]

]

they are just being polite ;)

Someday all of us will become a little less barbaric and not need dieties and other such crutches to prop up society.


+10000000

[Robdog]

Everyone is going to be just FINE when they die.. that eternity is going to be an instantÂ* :twisted:

:'(Â* cry about it

nothing fails like prayer..

[yobless]

http://z.hubpages.com/u/340567_f520.jpg

All praise ceiling cat...

[FUEL]

I pray to "Da Cat Gods"

[skylinefolife]

HAHa My torque #s have been thread jackin all over socalevo...


How much torque? lol. I haven't been around sce in a min.

[Robdog]

:twisted: 506Tq 3500rpms ^

[matth1054]

What about the evolution thing^^ forget that science lesson



Unfortunately my friend you have been mislead by evolution as it poses to be a science. evolution is a religion more than a science, it was the alternative created by an atheist to explain creation excluding God the creator. evolution has its roots in thoeries, guesses and a bunch of shoddy, non-substantial evidence. there is a reason why so many scientist are divided on this issue cause both tries to explain science with or without a personal creator--according to ones own belief. what we know is that there is fact, there is a write answer. whats we see is old accounts, historical data of ancient ancestors of the Bible and what they said happened and it makes sense. if you wanted to know the origin of your family line you would consult the oldest person in your lineage for info and data/facts they have. the alternative is to try come up with a guess of what happened and try to go back and prove it. the misleading thing is evolution is taught as fact in schools and university and is widely exceptable to the mass of people by default but it was not too long ago(50's) that the Bible, prayer, and God was taught in schools. as a result of political battles religion has been removed from schools and the truth about science cloudied. think logically have you ever seen any order come from chaos, is there any sign of evolution today, carbon dtaing has already been proven as an unreliable dating method yet its used as the primary source in evolution. all we have is the record of what and who has been around for the last 6000 years and that goes back to a man named adam and a woman named eve. most importantly, you are Christs creation and he wants to have a relationship with you. your choice...choose him!

[Robdog]

Go to a Museum ^

The dinosaurs were a miracle too bro O0

[vial8or]

^^dinosaur bones were put here by satan to test our faith




/sarcasm

[skylinefolife]

:twisted: 506Tq 3500rpms ^


Awesome-oh!

[*chris*]

heres something ive always wondered...

if there is a god and hes omni-everything. why would he create a being that would deceive and betray him? and then, create two people who will eventually usher in 'sin'?

[matth1054]

heres something ive always wondered...

if there is a god and hes omni-everything. why would he create a being that would deceive and betray him? and then, create two people who will eventually usher in 'sin'?


^^ If you desire a relationship and are in one would you want that individual to love you because they fear you or because the sincerely do "choose" to love you? God created mankind and his intention was to dwell with him, bless him, and love on him. This is still the Lords goal today to win our hearts and have relationships with him; however, the only thing more important to God than his love for us is our free will. God wants us to truly want to be in communion with him not forced to so he created Adam and had to give him a choice. God set up the garden made things simple for man and gave Adam just one command(to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). This was man's choice to obey or not. Keep in mind it was Satan that tempted Eve to eat from the tree and deceived her not the God. She made a choice and through them sin came into the world. Remember the only reconciliation for the forgiveness and covering of these sins was also provided by the Lord through the trust and dependence on his son Jesus Christ. Choose Him! Remember not choosing him is a choice and it has consequences.

[vial8or]

Yay a bible thumper!!!!!

[Robdog]

Choose Him! Remember not choosing him is a choice and it has consequences.



Face the facts
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb9/welsh_phillip/skulls5wu.gif

[matth1054]

Yay a bible thumper!!!!!


He asked, I explained.

[skylinefolife]

Choose Him! Remember not choosing him is a choice and it has consequences.



Face the facts
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb9/welsh_phillip/skulls5wu.gif


lol.
Cute pic.

[*chris*]

that still makes absolutely NO sense.

god created everything. ok.
god created the possibility of sin. yah.

now WHY, would he fkn do that? he creates a being, satan, that will eventually try to otherthrow him and banishes him to 'hell'. why? why create something that willÂ* just turn against you. and why not just end it right there? and dont say because god is so loving. if hes so loving, why BANISH a being to HELL. doesnt god say to forgive and love? what the fk happened there?

and onto 'adam & eve'. when did god ever say to them that they needed to fear him? ok, he gave them all sorts of fun times and the promise of happiness. why create that fkn tree and let our old friend satan tempt them? this is like baiting a trap ...its like god wanted them to fall.

this is all based on the assumption that 'god' even exists.

when will our world wake up and once-and-for-all figure out that religion is just another divider that WE have constructed to control and even undermine other groups of people? its fkn rediculous.

LOVE the picture rob. A-fkn-PLUS.

[matth1054]

Choose Him! Remember not choosing him is a choice and it has consequences.



Face the facts

Unfortunately my friend you have been mislead by evolution as it poses to be a science. evolution is a religion more than a science, it was the alternative created by an atheist to explain creation excluding God the creator. evolution has its roots in thoeries, guesses and a bunch of shoddy, non-substantial evidence.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb9/welsh_phillip/skulls5wu.gif