PDA

View Full Version : Do you think oil companies are price gouging us?



drmosh
06-19-2007, 12:18 PM
I know this one should be interesting...

Terenus
06-19-2007, 01:01 PM
Interesting topic, but I'm gonna hold my opinion on this because oil consumption is no doubt growing rapidly especially in China. And I hear their profits are still based on the same % as always, who knows.

Skiracer
06-19-2007, 01:15 PM
Its not the oil companies manipulating the prices, you can blame the oil traders for causing the rise/fall of oil prices. Welcome to capitalism on the open markets.

Terry S
06-19-2007, 01:18 PM
Last time I checked I dont buy oil...

Terry S

vortech_g35
06-19-2007, 01:20 PM
I bought some Chinese Stock. I think I'm up 12% :D.

Eckolaker
06-19-2007, 01:44 PM
Exxon/Mobil are making $10billion profit per fiscal quarter. That's insane. I need to find the article but it was talking about how most of the price of oil comes from speculation. Which lends itself to collusion.

Terry S
06-19-2007, 01:53 PM
The whole damn stock market is speculation and collusion.

Terry S

drmosh
06-19-2007, 02:33 PM
Last time I checked I dont buy oil...

Terry S


So you never put oil in your Evo?

Speaking of which, looking at Mobil 1 prices from Costco by the case over the last few years it has jumped quite a bit. Almost $10/case.

Terry S
06-19-2007, 02:41 PM
I run synthetic oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil") in my Evo so, no I dont put "oil" into my car. LOL

And I was just razzing ya anyways. :P

I haven't been changing my own oil for very long (~4 years) but it's always been about $25 a case at walmart as I recall..

Terry S

drmosh
06-19-2007, 03:21 PM
Its not the oil companies manipulating the prices, you can blame the oil traders for causing the rise/fall of oil prices. Welcome to capitalism on the open markets.


It's a complicated statement, extraction of oil may or may not slow down due to whatever factors, but gasoline pricing itself is directly related to refinery capacity which are controlled by the oil companies.

Terry S
06-19-2007, 03:33 PM
It's a complicated statement, extraction of oil may or may not slow down due to whatever factors, but gasoline pricing itself is directly related to refinery capacity which are controlled by the oil companies.


Gasoline pricing is greatly influenced by the pricing of the oil that is used to make the gasoline.

At least we have competition in the oil refinery market. All our other utilities are organized into monopolies that gouge us a billion times worse. Southern California Edison has got to be the worse of them all.

Terry S

gen4k20a2
06-20-2007, 12:29 AM
What i think is happening is cost of oil is going up....they are keeping the same profit margins and so they make $$$$ either way.

Skiracer
06-20-2007, 12:44 AM
Its not the oil companies manipulating the prices, you can blame the oil traders for causing the rise/fall of oil prices.Â* Welcome to capitalism on the open markets.


It's a complicated statement, extraction of oil may or may not slow down due to whatever factors, but gasoline pricing itself is directly related to refinery capacity which are controlled by the oil companies.



I would say refining capacity is a lagging indicator of gasoline prices. The futures markets for gasoline traded on many commodities exchanges around the world would reflect the most current and future outlook for prices.

Howie
06-20-2007, 07:56 AM
Just buy: XLE, CVX and SLB!

Absinthe
06-20-2007, 02:44 PM
supply and demand is a muther fucker

S@nt0s
06-20-2007, 03:23 PM
gas stations have something to do with it as well.... a chevron at one corner can be $3.45 a gal and about a mile down the road another chevron is $3.55-$3.60

Miss Evo8
06-20-2007, 05:20 PM
as long as we commute with gasoline powered cars we are screwed no matter what.... just gotta accept it... or drive a gHey looking Hybrid like Dino :D

drmosh
06-21-2007, 06:09 PM
gas stations have something to do with it as well.... a chevron at one corner can be $3.45 a gal and about a mile down the road another chevron is $3.55-$3.60


That's more about regional allocation, whereas Santa Ana and Anaheim are cheap in Costa Mesa they can charge u more just because it's Costa Mesa.

Terenus
06-22-2007, 10:12 AM
gas stations have something to do with it as well.... a chevron at one corner can be $3.45 a gal and about a mile down the road another chevron is $3.55-$3.60


That's more about regional allocation, whereas Santa Ana and Anaheim are cheap in Costa Mesa they can charge u more just because it's Costa Mesa.



Like Brentwood, it's still around $3.69 or something. First it's Brentwood so rent is more expensive and second people there can afford ir.

Eckolaker
07-19-2007, 11:26 AM
The price gouging starts with the illegal international oil cartel known as OPEC. They prety much set the price of crude Oil. OPEC is made up of the large oil rich nations, mainly Saudi's. They also do more then just set prices. They also set production numbers, and tell the oil producing companies/nations to pump more or less oil depending on demand. OPEC sets prices based on many factors, most of which are complete speculation. Threats of war with Iran...Raise the price of oil. Hurricane in the Gulf....Raise the price of crude...Americans buying more gas then ever....Raise the price of crude.

Its well known how the first Gulf war came to be.

Saddam had a very large debt acquired during the 80's from purchasing major weapon systems from the United States(including the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds). This is all public thanks to the Iran-Contra Affair. After the Iraq-Iran war was over the US demanded payment from Saddam for the weapon sales. Well in order to pay of the US, Saddam increased his countries Oil production, as well as dropped the price of Oil far below the market average at the time. Remember $1.00/gal for gas? I know I sure do.

Well this did not sit well with OPEC. They asked Saddam to raise the price of his oil. He did not...Thus began the political jockeying in the region, between Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.

Saddam asserted that the Kuwait-Iraq border did not exist as it was drawn by the UN and not in an agreement between the two nations. Kuwait began meeting with CIA, and a memorandum from those meetings was discovered that basically detailed a plan for Kuwait and CIA to destabilize Iraq economically. At the Same time, the Saudi government began staging events in the country to suggest Iraq wanted to invade Saudi lands as well. Gulf war I essentially was the first attempt to remove Saddam from power because he would not play ball with OPEC. For whatever reason the plan to remove Saddam from power was scratched and instead they would eliminate his ability to rebuild the country in hopes he would lose power from within. Much like what happened with Mossadeq in the 50's and a CIA plot that removed him from power.

Lets not be confused here, it was special forces that lit those Oil fires in Iraq, and not the Iraqi forces.

atlvalet
07-19-2007, 10:57 PM
gas stations have something to do with it as well.... a chevron at one corner can be $3.45 a gal and about a mile down the road another chevron is $3.55-$3.60


Oil companies are in control of that. In fact, these "zones" (there is an official name for it, I just can't remember what the name of it is) are what can cause 2 gas stations across the street from each other to have radically different prices.

This present issue with oil prices has a few causes. OPEC putting a cap on output and the oil companies here putting an artificial squeeze on supply by not increasing refinery capacity since approximately the 1980's.

Oh, and China increasing it's consumption hasn't helped either.

MRIslandStyle
07-20-2007, 10:02 AM
good thing china put a ban on a bunch of commuters driving for a while at least...

gas sucks as it is directly related to the oil exchange as ated earlier... and we Americans like our HP... regional location of gas stations affect pricing.... typically stations closer to freeways are more expensive and your name brands will usually be a couple of pennies higher which is bs because in the long run it's all the same gas no matter which company it is... our local refineries have shut down periods for inspection by companies like iesco and pts... for a straight week these companies go thru the plant up and down checking welds on the piping, thickness of storage containers, air quality, radiation and a bunch of other items.... mean while where does shell trucks get there gas if there plant is on shut down? they go to arco/bp or some other refinery... and all of our off beat brands like united oil, valero or even thrifty use the same fuels... they buy from the cheapest supplier most likely... the only thing they don't get is the name affiliation with the gas that helps it sell... as if a brand name is a guarantee... it's like in tommy boy... why does a product need a guarantee on the box, all it's saying is you're getting a guaranteed piece of shit, if you want me to take a shit in a box and stamp it guaranteed i got some extra time... don't get fooled by brand vs. off brand... by law all 91 octane is the same rating... techron and v-power and all that other bs isn't worth it... sure it will help keep your engine clean, but we're talking over 10s of thousands of miles if not hundreds... there's no way to really stick it to the oil companies even if we buy off brand since the off brands buy from them... I'm sure it will reduce their profits somewhat but not enough to really hurt them.... just get the Vaseline and bend over...

Terry S
07-20-2007, 11:54 AM
Oil companies are in control of that. In fact, these "zones" (there is an official name for it, I just can't remember what the name of it is) are what can cause 2 gas stations across the street from each other to have radically different prices.

This present issue with oil prices has a few causes. OPEC putting a cap on output and the oil companies here putting an artificial squeeze on supply by not increasing refinery capacity since approximately the 1980's.

Oh, and China increasing it's consumption hasn't helped either.


Supply and demand is what creates the zones your speaking of. It's just like how macy's at mainplace, irvine spectrum and south coast plaza all have 3 different prices for the same product. Location, location, location.

Oil companies aren't capping refinery capacity. They run at or near 100% at all times. It's the environmentalists putting the squeeze on your congresspeoples keeping new refineries from being built and old ones from being upgraded.



good thing china put a ban on a bunch of commuters driving for a while at least...

gas sucks as it is directly related to the oil exchange as ated earlier... and we Americans like our HP... regional location of gas stations affect pricing.... typically stations closer to freeways are more expensive and your name brands will usually be a couple of pennies higher which is bs because in the long run it's all the same gas no matter which company it is... our local refineries have shut down periods for inspection by companies like iesco and pts... for a straight week these companies go thru the plant up and down checking welds on the piping, thickness of storage containers, air quality, radiation and a bunch of other items.... mean while where does shell trucks get there gas if there plant is on shut down? they go to arco/bp or some other refinery... and all of our off beat brands like united oil, valero or even thrifty use the same fuels... they buy from the cheapest supplier most likely... the only thing they don't get is the name affiliation with the gas that helps it sell... as if a brand name is a guarantee... it's like in tommy boy... why does a product need a guarantee on the box, all it's saying is you're getting a guaranteed piece of shit, if you want me to take a shit in a box and stamp it guaranteed i got some extra time... don't get fooled by brand vs. off brand... by law all 91 octane is the same rating... techron and v-power and all that other bs isn't worth it... sure it will help keep your engine clean, but we're talking over 10s of thousands of miles if not hundreds... there's no way to really stick it to the oil companies even if we buy off brand since the off brands buy from them... I'm sure it will reduce their profits somewhat but not enough to really hurt them.... just get the Vaseline and bend over...


The base gasoline is the same, but the "brand name" that you're paying for is for the detergents and cleaners they put in the base gas. You know chevron's techron? Yea, thats a bunch of detergents in the gas keeping your engine clean. The base gas might be valero, arco or BP/Unocal, but you pay the extra pennies for the special cleanser blend in the gas. Again, the price difference between the brands is also the free market at play. If chevron on one side of the street can charge $.10 more per gallon than arco on the other side, yet still manage to empty the holding tanks each night then why wouldn't they keep bumping it up until they find the neutral point. It's economics 101 dude.



Eckolakers stuff


And to my favorite Political forum dude, why is OPEC even considered in the oil equasion? % wise, they produce a fairly small percentage of the worlds oil, its just a bit higher quality crude thats all. Just because the internets say OPEC cut production doesn't mean thats the actual reason for an oil price fluctuation.

Terry S

Eckolaker
07-23-2007, 02:49 PM
Eckolakers stuff


And to my favorite Political forum dude, why is OPEC even considered in the oil equasion? % wise, they produce a fairly small percentage of the worlds oil, its just a bit higher quality crude thats all. Just because the internets say OPEC cut production doesn't mean thats the actual reason for an oil price fluctuation.

Terry S


Pretty sure OPEC is responsible for a good proportion of the oil produced. If you look at the short list of members, its pretty much the Who's who of oil producing counties. At the end of the day, the countries on the list are who most people buy from, thus their power in the industry.

here is OPEC explanation for High Gas prices http://www.opec.org/library/FAQs/PetrolIndustry/q13.htm

Terry S
07-24-2007, 07:48 AM
Pretty sure OPEC is responsible for a good proportion of the oil produced. If you look at the short list of members, its pretty much the Who's who of oil producing counties. At the end of the day, the countries on the list are who most people buy from, thus their power in the industry.

here is OPEC explanation for High Gas prices http://www.opec.org/library/FAQs/PetrolIndustry/q13.htm


Dont mix things up there. That's their explanation for fluxuations in crude prices. Oil prices and Gas prices are two completely different things. Gas prices are determined primarily by the refineries performance. Oil prices are determined by the oil drillers.

(beating a dead horse) Not to mention that there are many other factors when determining how "high" oil prices are such as adjustment for inflation, the strength of the US dollar, international demands, etc.

And regarding output I stand corrected. I thought I remember reading somewhere that we purchase only 15% of our oil from OPEC and that OPEC only controlled a mild share of the worlds oil output. But I checked a few places and it turns out that OPEC countries control about 40% of the current world oil production. I wish I could find that article again about the purchase/output %'s... I wanna say it was like TIME magazine, BBC or something like that.

Terry S

Eckolaker
07-25-2007, 02:08 PM
Well when you consider that a barrel of crude is at an all time high including being adjusted for inflation, and couple that with the fact that over the last two years crude prices were used to justify the higher prices in gasoline. Not to mention that when the cost of crude was down under $40/barrel in the 90's is when gas was still just over a $1/gallon. Price of a barrel goes up, price of a gallon goes up too.

Production hasn't really dropped off, we may see a few percentage points of fluctuation here and there, but primarily we have the same supply as we always do.

My point here is that, Crude prices determine Gasoline prices. Production increases or decreases your price at the pump by a few cents per gallon, drop the price of a barrel to $50 or under and you wont pay more then $2 for 91...plain and simple

Terry S
07-26-2007, 09:00 AM
Well when you consider that a barrel of crude is at an all time high including being adjusted for inflation, and couple that with the fact that over the last two years crude prices were used to justify the higher prices in gasoline. Not to mention that when the cost of crude was down under $40/barrel in the 90's is when gas was still just over a $1/gallon. Price of a barrel goes up, price of a gallon goes up too.

Production hasn't really dropped off, we may see a few percentage points of fluctuation here and there, but primarily we have the same supply as we always do.

My point here is that, Crude prices determine Gasoline prices. Production increases or decreases your price at the pump by a few cents per gallon, drop the price of a barrel to $50 or under and you wont pay more then $2 for 91...plain and simple


When being adjusted for inflation, the price of oil was approximately $95/barrel in the early 80's.

Terry S