Samco Hose Kit vs. Intercooler Hard Pipe Kit

[gsrIXevo]

I have been trying to do some form of research on which setup is better to use for a person that wants to keep the stock intercooler and the stock battery... (price does not matter...)

Samco Hose Kit: "the kit that replaces all of the sponge 'bob' black hoses that our evos come with"

Or

Intercooler Hard Pipe kit: "Upper IC pipe.. plus Lower Pipe that is kinda bigger than stock, but still fits with the stock battery staying where it is...."

Any info (bad or good) would help out a great deal.... I have no idea towards what would be better for the money vs. which setup gives me more efficiency without moving my battery to the trunk or upgrading my stock intercooler....

[dabie]

bump for info, im interested too

[gsrIXevo]

so far I keep hearing that it is better to get all hard piping... although samco hoses are made of better material than stock hose... they still expand.. and for better response... you want to take out the expanding of any hose.... so think I may have answered my own question....lol

[danEvoIX562]

bump i would also like to know this but if i had some cash i would probably just go with the hard pipes but whats better performance?

[gsrIXevo]

the overall aspect of getting more harder pipes.. adds to turbo response..... you can do it with samco hoses... but it will take less time to hold at a normal psi... but hard pipes will hold whatever psi you throw at them because they do not flex.... i know the easier way is to go with samco hoses.. and the response will be better than it is now.. but if you can save up and have RRE or buy somebody's hard pipe kit.. would be the best bang for your buck...

[SoCalRedLine]

you go with larger diameter ic piping, you will get flow velocity loss, wich also = psi loss...

[JDMboi]

i always wonderd that but wouldnt a tune get rid of the lose of airflow

you go with larger diameter ic piping, you will get flow velocity loss, wich also = psi loss...

[ev0ninerr]

^^^ i would think that also, would you care to explain a little further Mike? We know too big is bad and too small is bad, but if the next upgrade is only a hard pipe that's a certain diameter, then aren't we a little out of luck...? If there is no way of having the adverse effect of losing psi, would the gains in hp and tq supplement or even negate the psi loss?

[SoCalRedLine]

^^^ i would think that also, would you care to explain a little further Mike? We know too big is bad and too small is bad, but if the next upgrade is only a hard pipe that's a certain diameter, then aren't we a little out of luck...? If there is no way of having the adverse effect of losing psi, would the gains in hp and tq supplement or even negate the psi loss?

hard piping is almost always better than rubber tubing that can expand under high pressures.

losing turbulence in the intake tract will increase efficiency of the engine.

shorter tubing takes less long to fill, and results in more responsiveness.

but flow...is hard to explain.

well... think of it like the difference between a coffee stirrer straw, and a boba straw. When you blow through the coffee straw, the air coming out has a very high velocity, so a high rate of air is passing through the straw under a high pressure.
Now, blow through a boba straw. The air going through the straw is moving at a slower velocity, because the air must fill up the extra volume of the lower straw. So, you will see a lower rate of air going through the straw, and a lower pressure.

Your engine gets its highest torque, at the point where the intake gas velocity is at its peak, filling the cyl's quickly and efficiently.

Now, taking from that example, your stock tubing is flowing a certain flow velocity at 20psi, because it is 2.5" internal diameter. If you were to change to a 3" pipe, your gas velocity will lower, and you will see a lower psi at the manifold. So, changing nothing to the amount of air the turbo puts out, the psi will be around 18psi at the manifold. The engine should still ge tthe same amount of air, it just may lose midrange torque in favor of high end horsepower.

does it affect performance? yes.

3"tubing takes longer to fill, meaning less response.

the 3" tubing can outflow the smaller tubing at the same pressures. So, the 3" tubing @ 20psi, and the 2.5" tubing at psi, the 3" will be flowing much more air, and more air = more power...

...but the turbo must stay within its efficiency in order to make it worth it. If the turbo has to pump out hotter air to make 20psi on a 3" IC pipe, then it may negate the effect of the larger piping. So, you go to a higher flowing, or more efficient turbocharger, and you egt even more HP.

so, shorter hard piping is good.
changing internal diameters of the tubing will affect response, and performance.

make sense?

the same thing applies to exhaust sizing, as well. tuning the diameters/length of the intake and exhaust plumbing will respult in peak flow velocities at certain rpm's. Generally for drag racing you want peak to be at redline, for road racing application you want peak to be around 4.5K-5.5K.

[SoCalRedLine]

^yea, the samco hoses have nylon mesh within the rubber of the hoses, so they shouldnt expand.

i was mainly referring to the stock hoses, if indeed they do expand, but i have yet to see an evo with stock tubing running 30+psi...lol.

one plus side to that, is the rubber wont transfer heat from the engine bay to the intake tract.

[gsrIXevo]

i have heard both sides of this vs. battle.. that is the main reason why i did this post...

i have heard that with larger front mounts you run the risk of losingÂ* +/- psi.... i didnt think about the fact that this could happen in a hardpipe kit as well...

when it comes to stock piping... I know it has more response to it once pressure is stable... but i have seen that in Japan... EVOs come with a stronger hose kit from stock.... (this is the main reason why I thought about a Samco kit.....)Â* I dont plan on running over 30psi....Â* I know that response will be slightly slow from a stand still..(meaning: off gas to wot)Â* Â* but the pressure in a hard pipe kit becomes more stable a lot faster than our stock setup.....(so i have heard.. and read)

both sides have pros and cons that are tooooooo close for me to go out and buy one without doing a lot more reading...Â* plus price wise they are pretty much the same...

SoCalRedLine, GST, and everyone... thanks a lot for posting... i have been trying for a long time to find out what ppl are doing to evos in other countries to improve them.. (but ist been easier said than done.....lol)

[gsrIXevo]

oh... and a really big.. big.. big issue i keep seeing.. is finding a hard pipe kit that fits wiht the stock air box..... this is why samco hoses start to look alittle be better... when looking at the whole : working with what you got... i dont wanna buy a new air filter setup just to go with the hard pipe kir....

[ev0ninerr]

Thanks Mike and GST. I would go with the hoses because it's less bling. All the facts are out and now it's just preference. I always thought about the hoses, but it didn't seem right because getting a hose that costs just as much as the metal version doesn't sound right. But with the pros and cons of each and how cops are with us, time to buy the hose kit.

[gsrIXevo]

ya know.. you are pretty much correct.... but the one thing that helps us out when we get a new intercooler piping kit.. is that our car came with a turbo... its not illegal to get a new hard pipe kit.. but it leads a cop to think other stuff has been changed.... but with samco ... you can atleast chose what color you want... but i am thinking more and more that i just may go with the hose kit... (although it is better than stock.. it still will expand.. but not as much as stock hoses...)... plus the hard pipe kit i want.. doesnt give the choice of black hosing...lol.. but they give you a choice of black piping.....

[SoCalRedLine]

black hardpiping = hard piping + black ultra hard enamel ($3.99 @ lowes)

[gsrIXevo]

very true.. but .. if you want black couplers.. you may have to buy them seperate... that puts me back in the boat of buying samco hoses... and if i dont like it.. just get a hard pipe kit later...lol....

[gsrIXevo]

oh.. i put in the order for the samco kit.. so i'll be sure to chime in and let ya'll know how it worked out...

[ev0ninerr]

sweet. where'd you get it from and how much?