Why is SCE so close-minded.......

[FastForward]

I have a little question for everybody. Why is it not "ok" or allowed to post on a public forum your experiences with certain shops and or tuners? Is it because they are paying vendors to this site, or is it something more? Why is it that when a member posts about his experiences he gets bashed by the "fan-boys" or even gets his thread deleted? Yesterday a fellow member posted about his tune after having it logged by a third party. The tune came out to be a great tune, he had 1 or 2 counts of knock but nothing else that was significant. THe tune was left alone by the third party after seeing that it was a good tune. But then why when he posts about it, his thread gets deleted and he gets bashed by the "fan-boys"? His purpose of the post was to just state that after a "proffesional" tune, he got his car logged and he ended up with very good results. This is the reason SCE is so behind Evom when it comes to posting experiences about vendors and/or products. Not even NCE is like this. But the question is why?

[smokinevo9]

^^^^^^^^^^^ can't you post this in the buyers corner............

[FastForward]

Not really about a vendor, just about whats allowed to post here...........

[gen4k20a2]

Wow...thats pretty messed up. But this is a privately owned forum so the owners can do whatever the hell they want.

[FastForward]

I agree with you gen4k20a2............It just sucks when we are not "allowed" to post anything that might make a vendor look bad. How are we supposed to share are experiences, good or bad, if we have to watch what we say?

[ev0ninerr]

I can tell you the story behind the story. Online communities attract like-minded people that share a common thought. Yet, the problem with that is it pushes everyone to have the same idea, same liking, etc... you get the idea. When the crowd goes with an idea that 4 out of 5 people agree to, that last person either has to get out of the way or say yes and go with the other 4. The problem with communities like ours is that it pushes most idea's to the extremes and neglects another view even though it's relevant to the topic. How all that relates to your topic? Well the moderators are not 100% unbiased obviously, no one is. They just try to keep everything going smoothly without causing a fuss on one or two threads. If I remember correctly, how our fellow buddy worded his topic was very biased. I bet you that if that thread was left up, there will be unnecessary drama. I know his intention was not to say anything against either tuner, but it came out that way. When someone compares(directly or indirectly) a very well-established tuner to one known by the people, it's going to cause some rifts. Regardless of any angst, that's just how it works.

[nine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvtGcH_djs&eurl

That is not my favorite game but I do like the concept of being able to drive anywhere.

There is no limit to what you are capable of.

[FastForward]

evOninerr....... I totally agree with you. It just sucks that we are "limited" to what we can post and what we cant.

[ev0ninerr]

I choose not to be limited and let whatever be. Obviously if you don't post anything obnoxious it won't cause anything, just keep postin' on is my thing.

[FastForward]

The OP yesterday asked a very good question when he asked why its not ok to get your car logged after a "proffesional" tune? Like he said, its like going to a doctor and just taking his word without getting a second opinion. This persons logged showed a very good tune by the original tuner, but this is always not the case, as I have seen personally logs of "professional" tunes where the car is knocking like crazy (8 to 9 counts) and the timing is so advanced that its pointless. But yet we are not allowed to post about this........

[atlvalet]

This whole SCE thing is nothing new, and since we are neither mods or site administrators, we can do nothing about it. If you're looking for up-to-date, cutting edge tech go to the ECUflash forum on EvoM where they discuss things like ECUboost control and ROM patches. When's the last time anyone on SCE came up with a ROM patch? That's what I thought.

[FastForward]

atlvalet.........your right, but it still dosent make it right. And yea SCE is years behind when it comes to ECUflash and people tuning their own cars. I see your posts all the time on EVOm, just wish SCE was more like that. You mentioned ECU boost-control, whats that? lol. Nothing better than being on the"pill" lol

[alan678]

yeah i dont get it either...I stick to EvoM for the knowledge base and come here to see what local events are going on and what not.....simply because of the forum politics....and more like forum communism when it comes to vendors and 'sole proprietor' issues that spark up around here.... :idiot2:

what can we do...... :tickedoff:

[FastForward]

alan your right. SCE is more about show and shine. For anything technical thats where EVOm shines. Whens the last time anybody posted about the JMD map sensor or even about ECU boost control? Not gunna happen on SCE.

[atlvalet]

Don't make this too big of a deal though, or you'll get a pm like this:

The thread you were referring to was deleted for a reason, if you would like to INCITE things I have more than enough ways of taking you off the forums.

[FastForward]

Don't make this too big of a deal though, or you'll get a pm like this:

The thread you were referring to was deleted for a reason, if you would like to INCITE things I have more than enough ways of taking you off the forums.


lol, Ive had a couple of those already! lol

[BHCevo]

Once money is being made its impossible to get a REALLY objective THIRD-PARTY opinion about quality. IMPOSSIBLE.

Positive opinions are just sales efforts, negative opinions are just competitors bad mouthing.

If you want to figure it out you have to judge for yourself. FIRST-HAND experience combined with critical thinking skills. Then throw some more experience on top of that.

In this repect SCE is no different than from the world at large....

If you lack the critical thinking skills or the FIRST-HAND experience you might as well be flipping a coin.

As for a getting an opinon from a "friend you trust"? Hahahaah.....man when people say this I don't know HOW to respond....it just makes me giggle.

I like my friends. I listen to my friends. But, and I say this with all affection, most of my friends absolute boneheads when it comes to ANY technical analysis. The few that aren't all graduated from caltech or engineering school....at the top of their class. And they would tell me "thats a complicated question you are as smart as I am you figure it out. Don't ask me."

As for myself? I no longer expect HIGH quality from a vendor/tuner/mechanic. What I expect is that I got reasonable value for my money. Thats it...REASONABLE value.

[Boosted]

I doubt this will end well

[atlvalet]

I think we can keep it civil.

[Blaze]

What a thought provoking conspiracy theory.
First time I've ever heard or considered it too.
(today anyway)

But the truth behind socal is even more shocking then you could ever believe.
It involves a sexy new drama too hot for TV and too scandalous even for the internet.
I dare not say any more. But know this: There is another Skywalker.....

Blast! I've said too much.

Blaze

[WOT]

all threads that involve a certain person results in thread / post deletion.

let it be known: if you dont like it, play else where.

[nj1266]

WOT,

That is what I noticed too. But the thread that FF was referring to was very positive about the said person and results. The car owner was very pleased with the results of work done by the said person. He just wanted peace of mind and wanted to make sure that things were OK with his car. That is all.

[atlvalet]

Who is the other Skywalker? Does the force work better than ECUboost control?

[Granny Shifter]

the positive thread about my tuner was deleted. Scott B ftw!

[atlvalet]

all threads that involve a certain person results in thread / post deletion.


Voldemort?

[flashfoto]

http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-AgainstRules.jpg

[Granny Shifter]

this thread is going to get deleted.

[alan678]

lol! Its going that way ehh...

[TBEVO9]

I was the original Op. And when they deleted the post i started laughing. I said nothing bad about any tuner. And if the moderators expect us to only praise their paying vendors then they have to realize the forum is for the evo owners and for them only. Without the evo owners their would be no pro tuners so the should praise us. The reason i wanted a second opinion was because i was having some minor issues that to one person are unimportant but to another they were important. I think anyone would want a second opinion. And to me as a business person i send my customers to my competitor because i am confident they will come back because i know i do a good job at what i do. So if any of the pro tuners on socal are afraid of loosing business then all they have to do is a good job at a competitive price. Its that simple. I'm not saying they do a bad job or anything its just what i think. After this its going to get deleted for sure. lol.

[Terenus]

Weird, why was the thread deleted? I never got any email with anyone reporting a post from TBEVO9.

[TBEVO9]

Well i serched and searched and i didnt find it and its not like their is so many post on the advanced tunning forum.

[atlvalet]

Weird, why was the thread deleted? I never got any email with anyone reporting a post from TBEVO9.


I am assuming it was deleted because it mentioned He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. And I saw the thread, and even posted in it. You have my word on that 'cause I saw it with my own eyes :)

[TBEVO9]

So who is the He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named? They should sticky that on the forum rules. lol

[Terenus]

LOL, I don't even know who you're talking about unless it's Vishnu. Oops I did it.

[TBEVO9]

Does my signature have the name?

[Terenus]

Then I don't think it was a "Who-Must-Not-Be-Named".

[atlvalet]

Then I don't think it was a "Who-Must-Not-Be-Named".


I think it might be if we're talking about threads that mysteriously get cleaned/deleted/questioned if they ever existed in the first place.

But certain usernames with multiple users are allowed, however I won't mention any names about dying and fires and such.

However, I'm not trying to cause trouble, so I'll just move along...

[TBEVO9]

Socalevo isn't only addicting its mysterious and hilarious. LOL.

[TBEVO9]

I found my answer on why it was deleted.

"Sorry... censorship and free speech do not apply to a private forum, we define all policies and what we can and cannot delete. Your rant while interesting is useless in a private forum. Understand that the mods and admins have the final say and what they say is final. If you don't like it, you can always go somewhere else.

We will delete threads and sometimes let threads stay for a review depending on how we view it, if it's a said "tuner" or someone who does installs, you can almost be assured the thread about them will be deleted if they are not a registered vendor simply because we cannot verify or vouch for who they are.

Also, make no mistake, there's no free advertising on this site, if said "tuner" were to tell the user to help him promote by posting a review, it will most likely be deleted if they're not a registered vendor. That's the bottom line, they are in business to make money, if they want to make money, they need to be a registered vendor. We have plenty of vendors who pay good money and who can tune cars, support them because they support the site, otherwise, expect your thread to be deleted. GG"

[alan678]

Socalevo isn't only addicting its mysterious and hilarious. LOL.


buahaha! Seriously...

[TBEVO9]

I found it on a previous complaint someone made because their post was deleted with no warning.

[Coolguy949]

Hey guys, SCE has changed a lot in the last 4.5 years but what always has been constant is we can't always make everyone happy. I try to use my best judgment when trying to make a call on an issue. Believe me when I say we want this site to benefit everyone, and be a resource and one stop evo place for everyone.

For those comparing us with EvoM, I don't think that's entirely and apples to apples comparison. EvoM has about 10 times the members we have which results in volumes of more information. Any website as big as EvoM will have tons of info whether they like it or not. As far as that goes we can't really compare. EvoM is a great site and Mark was a personal friend of mine. His vision for the site was genuine but he struggled with making everyone happy a lot more than we do. It's unavoidable with large social network. With so many different backgrounds it will be impossible to have everyone in agreeance. EvoM has a lot of haters, A LOT as a result. Also, they are air tight when it comes to vendors. I am a vendor on there and I can't believe how tough they are sometimes. Believe me when I say we are pretty dang lenient here.

As far as our vendor policies go, I know we are pretty strict. The popularity of SCE has caused a lot of business to flock to us to access our member base. We welcome it. However, we didn't start becoming so strict until we started having these unknown vendors swoop in on the site and take a bunch of members' money for horrific work. The only way to stop it was to completely lock down SCE from free vendor access. In fact, even now I would prefer we do more thorough background checks on each new vendor but it's so time consuming sometimes. My goal has always been to give Evo owners everything they need on one site - including safety from bad vendors. Unfortunately some people won't see method behind the madness.

Threads that are testimonials sometimes end up getting trashed if a moderator suspects vendor influence. Vendors asking members to post on their behalf has been a constant problems on the forums. We delete it because it isnt genuine, they might as come on and post themselves. Dynoflash got burned so many times on EvoM because of that. As soon as the members found out he instantly went down the ladder by many rungs. If we allow that to happen we are knowingly allowing people to mislead our members. I have no problem with members posting their personal experiences and I apologize if your genuine review was trashed. We will work harder at discerning what's real and what's a fake. If it happens just PM the moderator (you will be emailed with the name of the user that deleted it) or PM me. I am not here to shut someone out from making a legitimate post. We want everyone to feel open to posting. Please report anyone to me if you feel you are being treated unfairly.

I admit it can sometimes be very tiring to police everyone's issues and become the mediator. Most of the time I end up making at least one enemy in the process. I can be certain that person will post their anger when all is said and done. I hate when that happens but when it does it is addressed with the best of my judgment. I am still only human. :) The same applies to our staff. Unless I hire robots it's almost impossible to squelch the individual "flavor" of each moderator. All our moderators started off as enthusiasts first who became leaders in their community. They will have an opinion. While we ask them to try to be as objective as possible, almost always each will see the same issue differently. Just PM them and talk to them if you don't agree. They are friendly and will listen to you as long as you don't come with guns blazing.

I have stressed many many times for moderators to warn before deleting. If this isnt being done please let me know when it happens.

[SpdyEvo02]

if you like Evom so much then stay on that damn site..rules are rules if you don't like them get the fuck out

[FastForward]

if you like Evom so much then stay on that damn site..rules are rules if you don't like them get the fuck out


WOW! dont get so violentÂ* little man!Â* lol. But im glad my thread is still up, in a different forum, but thats cool.

[GokuSSJ4]

I blame Blaze for all the madness :D after all, he wants all the attention to himself.

[TBEVO9]

the problem is there is too many people that use disrespectful language on the boards and it because their bitchy and have their panties bunched up.

[SpdyEvo02]

to fuckin bad

[CRX2EVO]

*too

lol

[Blaze]

I blame Blaze for all the madness :D after all, he wants all the attention to himself.

Yes, well I seem to get blamed for everything now-days.
In this case, yes, I just realized I was the one to delete it.




Well i searched and searched and i didn't find it and its not like their is so many post on the advanced tunning forum.


Now why would I delete a vendor review from the advanced forum section?
I could be a dick and sticky it or quote the forum rules, or send out warnings.
Or it could have been an auto ban (just like posting a FS add in the general section).

But no, I deleted it.

I will say this: For all you flamers, neigh-sayers and people who have nothing better to do then make a crusade out of ever instance something gets deleted from an internet forum, THIS forum is by far the cleanest and most organized forum available to an evo enthusiast. This is because you have a team of moderators cleaning up your whore-wars, your off topic rants and your outdated threads so that GOD FORBID anyone ever did a search, you might find what your looking for the first time, or when you navigate through specific forums, you find specific threads that adhere to the title.

TB:

Please feel free to repost your success story...in the correct forum.

Blaze

[GokuSSJ4]

I blame Blaze for all the madness :D after all, he wants all the attention to himself.

Yes, well I seem to get blamed for everything now-days.
In this case, yes, I just realized I was the one to delete it.


Blaze

it's all part of a master plan... shame on you Blaze.... shame on you!!!

[Blaze]

Stop trying to thwart my conspiracies, Goku!

[FastForward]

I understand what you mean Blaze, and I do think SCE is very organized and clean. But that shouldnt mean that its forbidden for us, the members, to post negative things about certain shops and/or vendors. I understand that sometimes a topic gets out of hand, but nothing really a little cleaning up or warning cant fix, no need to just delete it. I understand their is always gunna be fan-boys, but when a thread or topic has supporting proff of the subject then it should be allowed to be up. It shouldnt only be the "good" reviews that are allowed to remain open. Some topics are stupid though, with no supporting evidence or facts, those you can delete. But If for instance I start a thread where I can prove 100% that either a tune or a part install is wrong, then I should be allowed to post it.

[FastForward]

to fuckin bad


Spdy and you continue with your nonsence! lol. Big words for a little man! lol

[Blaze]

But that shouldnt mean that its forbidden for us, the members, to post negative things about certain shops and/or vendors.

FF:

Stop and read up. The thread was posted in the wrong forum. There is a specific warning in that forum that posts of that nature will be deleted without notice.

You are 100% correct that you have the right to post +/- regarding any vendor and I support you and everyone else's right to do so. Just do it in the correct forum: Buyer's Corner

[TBEVO9]

So posting about my tunin and logging in the advanced and tunning forum is the wrong place? I didnt post to give credit to any one or take credit from anyone so whatever. I posted that loggin your car after a tune is beneficial. To be honest I could give a rats ass where people take their business and money. Ive seen soap operas with less drama.

[nj1266]

So posting about my tunin and logging in the advanced and tunning forum is the wrong place? I didnt post to give credit to any one or take credit from anyone so whatever. I posted that loggin your car after a tune is beneficial. To be honest I could give a rats ass where people take their business and money. Ive seen soap operas with less drama.

Just hang on...Soon all of you can post about your experiences with me :) Just give it a day or so.

[TBEVO9]

Nj i cant help not coming on here and just ignoring it, lol. Hopefully you become a vendor really soon. Its addicting, and by the way the car is running great. Thank maybe il drop by one of these days for some more fettuccine.

[Blaze]

in a PM to NJ



It's come to our attention that you have been selling fettuccine to SoCal members.
You must cease and disist you delicious ways immediately or register as a vendor

Your recipe posts have been deleted.

This is your final warning.

Blaze

[atlvalet]

MBC < Fettuccine

[FastForward]

Hey Hey! I take you guys to a good spot and now you guys are putting it out there like a used up condom? what gives! lol. BIG E'S in the LBC is the shit! YA DIGG!

[BUDLoNG]

MBC < Fettuccine


truer words were never spoken....

;)

[TBEVO9]

Gus i didn't post where i got the boom ass fettuccine from so u spilled the beans.