2008 Presidential Election

[evobevo]

Obama..... McCain is old and acts like he's old.

[Mr_Tarmac]

The hell with republicans all they want is WAR!!!!!

[Terenus]

If Obama wins, it'll be an interesting Govt, Demo controlled congress and Demo President? I'm not so sure about that.

[XBS]

Obama.

[Warp09]

I think if Obama is elected, he will be assassinated shortly after.

[Ad-rock]

If Obama doesn't win, we're all fucked.

[MrsGFlores]

I wanna see their running mates already! :tickedoff:

[MrsGFlores]

I wanna see their running mates already! :tickedoff:


I wanna see your running mate

???? hahaha


You're a dork :uglystupid2:

[j_nizzle]

If Obama wins, it'll be an interesting Govt, Demo controlled congress and Demo President? I'm not so sure about that.


that's been my arguement for the last 6 months!

[MrsGFlores]

If Obama wins, it'll be an interesting Govt, Demo controlled congress and Demo President? I'm not so sure about that.


that's been my arguement for the last 6 months!


That is a very good point... it would be pretty darn lopsided... And there are so many crooks on both sides of government that no matter who wins there will be plenty of stuff for us to be mad about anyway. Sucks...

Well, we've heard that if elected McCain will end up dying of old age or Obama will be assassinated... so we gotta see who will take their place in case those things happen :buck2:

If Obama wins... which I think he will... I hope his "new age politics" isn't just a game... :knuppel2:

[skylinefolife]

Obama ftw.

I just don't think McCain is anything different than our current president. We need something new and Obama is it.

Hmm... Barack Hussein Obama for president! Lol still sounds weird.

[MrsGFlores]

Yeah, I'll probably end up voting for him anyway... I guess it seems to good to be true that there's a politician out there that actually cares about the people. I don't wanna be duped ya know what I mean.

But they look so real!!

http://www.barackobama.com/images/splash/splash_family.jpg

[skylinefolife]

Family comes first.

[MrsGFlores]

I know huh... what a concept ;)

[CASH$ MONEY]

Barack Obama it is...

[Ad-rock]

Yeah, I'll probably end up voting for him anyway... I guess it seems to good to be true that there's a politician out there that actually cares about the people. I don't wanna be duped ya know what I mean.

But they look so real!!

http://www.barackobama.com/images/splash/splash_family.jpg


Awesome pic of some hopefully pretty awesome people!

[Mr_Tarmac]

have you guys seen the news about Mccains running mate is female, were fucked now :(

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/?GT1=43001

[silvery_eagle]

http://gizmodo.com/5041044/vp-candidate-biden-is-no-friend-to-file-sharing-net-neutrality-protection-or-online-privacy

[vial8or]

god damn it, obama just fucked up his chance of winning by pickin that fag

[evobevo]

mccain's running mate is a milf ;)

[EVOMANIAC]

I have more political experience than McCains running mate.

She is pretty hot for a mid 40's chick though. I would bang her.

[vial8or]

Lol no one sees the irony??
Mcain has been running on obama has no experience.....and he has some 44yr old chick as the VP of the US?
anyone?

[skylinefolife]

Lol no one sees the irony??
Mcain has been running on obama has no experience.....and he has some 44yr old chick as the VP of the US?
anyone?


I feel you! lol...



I have more political experience than McCains running mate.

She is pretty hot for a mid 40's chick though. I would bang her.


id hit it too!

[EvolvedMCC]

she was like a beauty queen or something like that. oh well i wouldn't vote for him no matter who his running mate was because g-dubya ver. 2 who won't live to finish out his first term, then that n00b woman will be president? yeah right.

[skylinefolife]

i've always had my faith in obama :D

[evobevo]

to make matters worse for the gop....palin's 17yr old daughter is pregnant

[vial8or]

to make matters worse for the gop....palin's 17yr old daughter is pregnant


Sorry guys, I shoulda worn a condom

[S2myEVO]

josh you hit anything that has a vag..LOL

[vial8or]

lmao hell naw...i got standards boy.

But you're telling me u wouldn't tap this if u had the chance?
http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg

[vial8or]

*she's on the far right side btw*

[S2myEVO]

for a sec i thought you were talking about down below... HAHAHA

yeah on the right, no way id pass that up.

keep dreamin josh :2funny:

[vial8or]

lol i've had wayyy better honestly. but her face does have that "bust all over my eyes" kinda feel to it, ya know?

lol

[SpySat]

Pregnant, unwed 17 yo daughter? So much for GOP Family Values.

And Ms. Palin has already claimed "Executive Privilege" about testifying in her upcoming trial. She's Presidential Material for sure.

[vial8or]

lol everyone knows the republican "values" party are the ones that fuck up the most haha.
From gay governers to fag senators to kid porn senators, to lesbian daughters haha.
Makes me smile

[skylinefolife]

lmao hell naw...i got standards boy.

But you're telling me u wouldn't tap this if u had the chance?
http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg


her eyes are desperately seeking a good fu**ing

i'd hit it O0

[Smogrunner]

Let me post this video and it'll all make perfect sense why McSame picked Palin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s

[1of1000MR]

lmao hell naw...i got standards boy.

But you're telling me u wouldn't tap this if u had the chance?
http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg


her eyes are desperately seeking a good fu**ing

i'd hit it O0


LMAO

[Looney Tuning]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

[EVOMANIAC]

I dont see how a person, her sex has nothing to do with it, can be an effective VP with 4 children at home and one of them is under 1 y/o with Down Syndrome. She is putting her political carreer before her family. Bush was bashing obama for not having enough political experience, and this woman has less than 1 term as a Governor of a sparsely populated state. Oh and her husband works for BP. I am sure that has no connection at all.
I am so fed up with the Republican party and politicians all together. They tell us how we need to fight a war and get us in a huge mess. Well when we have to resort to military action Politicians should have no say at all, they already failed at their job. When military action is required politics have failed and you cant fight a war with politics, you fight it with weapons.

[skylinefolife]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


Blah. So what? It's not the first mistake a politician has done. Why won't you vote? I don't get it... Their has to be something that a politician has in common with you... Maybe something about the educational system, healthcare, economy, welfare?

On another note: I'm agnostic and I don't really get bothered when things like this come up.

[Looney Tuning]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


Blah. So what? It's not the first mistake a politician has done. Why won't you vote? I don't get it... Their has to be something that a politician has in common with you... Maybe something about the educational system, healthcare, economy, welfare?

On another note: I'm agnostic and I don't really get bothered when things like this come up.


An ignorant politician is a dangerous politician. For example, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq Bush did not know that there are Sunni and Shiite Muslims in that country. You would think that a president with a BA in history from Yale would know the differences between the two branchs of Islam and the long history of episodic violence between them. Since he did not know, he drove the US right in the midst of a civil war.

I did not say I am not voting, I am just not voting for either candidate. You missed the point...I am commenting on ignorance of candidates and not whether I agree or disargee with under god in the pledge.

[skylinefolife]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


Blah. So what? It's not the first mistake a politician has done. Why won't you vote? I don't get it... Their has to be something that a politician has in common with you... Maybe something about the educational system, healthcare, economy, welfare?

On another note: I'm agnostic and I don't really get bothered when things like this come up.


I did not say I am not voting, I am just not voting for either candidate. You missed the point...I am commenting on ignorance of candidates and not whether I agree or disargee with under god in the pledge.


KK. Why won't you vote for either candidate? I don't get it...

[Looney Tuning]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


Blah. So what? It's not the first mistake a politician has done. Why won't you vote? I don't get it... Their has to be something that a politician has in common with you... Maybe something about the educational system, healthcare, economy, welfare?

On another note: I'm agnostic and I don't really get bothered when things like this come up.


I did not say I am not voting, I am just not voting for either candidate. You missed the point...I am commenting on ignorance of candidates and not whether I agree or disargee with under god in the pledge.


KK. Why won't you vote for either candidate? I don't get it...


Because neither of them fits my non-interventionist political philosophy. Both of them would lead the US to more war, albeit McCain would be a bigger warmonger than Obama. And I do not subscribe to voting for the lesser or two evils, because you still get evil.

[skylinefolife]

^I see.

Well, I look at it the same way. The bottom line is that war is a business for them, not us. But, I wouldn't knowingly let McCain win.

[SpySat]

.I am commenting on ignorance of candidates and not whether I agree or disargee with under god in the pledge.
Well Bush has so lowered the intelligence requirement of the Executive Branch that any Gomer Pyle, no offense to Gomer, should be president next.

[atlvalet]

Let me post this video and it'll all make perfect sense why McSame picked Palin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s


Tom, that was some funny shizzle.

Personally, I have really stopped worrying about politics. It's shizzle I can't control. However, I think the whole "experience" thing is a huge red herring. "Experience" is what has gotten us all the crap we presently have in Washington. Just my opinion of course...

[Smogrunner]

I am not voting for either candidate, but what pisses me off is the legendary ignorance about simple facts on US history from candidates. For example, Palin was asked this question back in 2006 when running for governor:

[Q:] Are you offended by the phrase “Under God� in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

[Sarah Palin:] Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Really, there was a pledge back in the days of the founding fathers!!!! What a moron!!!!

Here are some details about the pledge that Palin should read.

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


Blah. So what? It's not the first mistake a politician has done. Why won't you vote? I don't get it... Their has to be something that a politician has in common with you... Maybe something about the educational system, healthcare, economy, welfare?

On another note: I'm agnostic and I don't really get bothered when things like this come up.


An ignorant politician is a dangerous politician. For example, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq Bush did not know that there are Sunni and Shiite Muslims in that country. You would think that a president with a BA in history from Yale would know the differences between the two branchs of Islam and the long history of episodic violence between them. Since he did not know, he drove the US right in the midst of a civil war.

I did not say I am not voting, I am just not voting for either candidate. You missed the point...I am commenting on ignorance of candidates and not whether I agree or disargee with under god in the pledge.


Perfect is the enemy of good. Our cars, like our politics, improve through EVOLUTION, not revolution.

[SpySat]

Remember that the Republicans are "Bringing Honor and Integrity to the White House."

[muddyIX]

NOBAMA!!!

[vial8or]

mcgay

[SpdyEvo02]

you can tell you got alot of poor people in here cause obama is winning...rofl

[skylinefolife]

^? wtf

that's probably the stupidest thing i've heard all day.

[afrantz]

you can tell you got alot of poor people in here cause obama is winning...rofl


So Obama raised all that campaign money from poor people. That is impressive. He truly is a community organizer.

[j_nizzle]

yeah and ron paul eats babies.

[skylinefolife]

It's funny how even though we strive for change, we still can't get over simple misconceptions. The problem of the 21st century isn't war, it's human stupidity. And republicans are on top of 'it' :)

[afrantz]

I believe the biggest problem is ignorance. The kind of ignorance that drives people to fly planes into buildings (Just in case anyone forgot that 9/11 happened in the 21st century.

[skylinefolife]

I believe the biggest problem is ignorance. The kind of ignorance that drives people to fly planes into buildings (Just in case anyone forgot that 9/11 happened in the 21st century.


That's true. I was just kidding with the last part about Republicans. We've had many great Republicans... Just not as of the recent decades :(
& McCain will be the worst ever [if he makes it].

Ignorance... How can you overcome that? The thing is were all taught these sort of beliefs and ideals at a young age, so they don't know any better. So yes, they are too ignorant to learn new things because they are brain washed :|



I believe the biggest problem is ignorance. The kind of ignorance that drives people to fly planes into buildings (Just in case anyone forgot that 9/11 happened in the 21st century.


Whatever happened to that airplane that ran into the Pentagon? They never released tape or nothing? I've heard of the people who died at the WTC and the other plane that fell down, but I've never heard nothing of the plane that hit the Pentagon... Can anyone enlighten me?

[afrantz]

I admit I have been raised to be ignorant of many things. I feel fortunate to be born into the culture I was raised in, because my particular brand of ignorance has yet to cause me to kill innocent people. (Not being sarcastic here, that is how I really feel).

[skylinefolife]

^That is true man. The only thing that kept a wall up was my religion, but i've decided things on my own since that's how my mom taught me. I'm sure if she was like my aunt, I'd be all praying 3 times a day, going to church and such.

I'm just glad with the freedoms we have and what we can learn through education. Too bad many countries aren't as fortunate and dictate the youth by teaching about holy wars, infidels, this/that...

[afrantz]

Just noticed the last part of your post about the attack on the pentagon. It seems like what happened depends on what site you go to for info. However, the proposition that the 9/11 attacks are an inside job is pretty extreme. I don't understand why anybody who believes that would continue to live in the U.S.

[skylinefolife]

^Yeah, its kind of nuts. All the tests they've done have lead to a conclusion that it was the lack of fire proofing that lead the towers to fall like a domino.

I'm just really curious about the Pentagon... I've never heard much. I just hate having all of these secrets! The government hides so much.

[evobevo]

Just watched the debate....seemed like Obama held his own on foreign affairs....can't wait for the VP debates.....Biden's gonna walk all over Palin.

[SpySat]

My dead dog would walk all over Palin.

[afrantz]

My dead dog would walk all over Palin.


I watched the debate. I guess a dead dog is a better debater than Joe Biden because Palin held her own.

[evobevo]

Saw this today....

3 Men who brought down Wall Street.................... something to think about


THIS IS CERTAINLY SCARY.....


This needs to be read till the end to see who these criminals works for now and then sent to everyones contacts to get this out to as many as we can so all will know the truth.

3 Men who brought down Wall Street....................

Be sure to read the 'where they are now'!!

Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.


1. Franklin Raines: was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his
departure The Wall Street Journal noted, ' Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that 'mistakes were made' and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years.' Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.


Raines left with a 'golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear. http://housingdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie-charges/ . The Government noted, 'The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner.' These charges were made in 2006. The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.

2. Tim Howard: Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard 'was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a 'stable pattern of earnings' at Fannie. In everyday English - he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation determined that, 'Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,'

On June 16, 2006 , Rep. Richard Baker, R-La .,
asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.

Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!


3. Jim Johnson: A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million.' Johnson is currently under investigation
for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.

Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.



WHERE ARE THEY NOW?


1. FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor

2. TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama

3. JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee




IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THE EXPERTISE - THEY MADE THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?

[vial8or]

gee wonder who you're voting for

[evobevo]

reagan was the last decent president....all the rest just say what you want to hear.

[MrsGFlores]

I saw a lot about that stuff too evobevo (Regarding the 3 men who brought down wallstreet) ... It's VERY interesting to me... :knuppel2:

I've been reading up on a lot about the candidates lately and I found this very interesting website www.rhetoricvsrecord.com (http://www.rhetoricvsrecord.com) makes you wonder who's telling the truth and who's just saying what the people want to hear. I like how it includes links to the articles/youtube so you can actually see where they got the info from.

Did any of you watch the debate last night? I would love to hear what you all think? ;)

[afrantz]

It is nice to see some intelligent posts in this thread regardless of what side they are on.

[smkdc5]

I saw a lot about that stuff too evobevo (Regarding the 3 men who brought down wallstreet) ... It's VERY interesting to me... :knuppel2:

I've been reading up on a lot about the candidates lately and I found this very interesting website www.rhetoricvsrecord.com (http://www.rhetoricvsrecord.com) makes you wonder who's telling the truth and who's just saying what the people want to hear. I like how it includes links to the articles/youtube so you can actually see where they got the info from.

Did any of you watch the debate last night? I would love to hear what you all think? ;)


Thats very true..I saw the debte on youtube and its really just turning into a boxing match. I hate when the debates get derailed and it turns into more of personal attacks rather than what the people want to hear. But if anything I think Obama tries to stay his course more often than Mccain.

[MrsGFlores]

Yeah, you're definitely right about it turning into a boxing match. And in this case I think Obama has an advantage based on the media being on his side. His referencing McCain being Bush's 3rd term has really made an impact. But if McCain wants any chance to win at this point he needs to keep fighting, and fighting hard. And I think he made a very strategic move bringing out how Obama wants to "spread the wealth around."

I just thought of something... considering the topic here... Is everyone here even registered to vote? Today was the last day to register and be able to count for this election.

[vial8or]

lol you know you're vote doesn't do anything right?
It's just a popular vote. It's the electoral vote that counts, we elect the representatives who "promise" to elect the candidate we want.
But our state is a massive one, something like 53 votes we count for I believe, plus the 2 senators

[smkdc5]

Yeah, you're definitely right about it turning into a boxing match. And in this case I think Obama has an advantage based on the media being on his side. His referencing McCain being Bush's 3rd term has really made an impact. But if McCain wants any chance to win at this point he needs to keep fighting, and fighting hard. And I think he made a very strategic move bringing out how Obama wants to "spread the wealth around."

I just thought of something... considering the topic here... Is everyone here even registered to vote? Today was the last day to register and be able to count for this election.


lol yea I did it at the last minute yesturday

[smkdc5]

lol you know you're vote doesn't do anything right?
It's just a popular vote. It's the electoral vote that counts, we elect the representatives who "promise" to elect the candidate we want.
But our state is a massive one, something like 53 votes we count for I believe, plus the 2 senators


Imagine if everyone thought that way...

[MrsGFlores]

Seriously... I mean the electoral vote counts for A LOT (Bush being elected for his 2nd term for example)... but our votes DO count too people! So don't sit back and do nothing... that's not the way to think. Besides, if we do nothing then we also have nothing to complain about...

[fastkevin]

The electoral colleges' votes are supposed to mirror the popular vote
On a humorous side note...anyone hear the Howard Stern segment on Harlem Obama supporters? I'm not an HS fan, but it was all over You Tube so I listened. One of Stern's lackeys went into Harlem and asked people who they were voting for. When they said "Obama" he'd say something like, "so you're for keeping the troops in Iraq indefinitely?" And they would answer "yes" He also asked them if they believed in Obama's VP-"PALIN" to which they also answered affirmatively.
Scary!
..in a funny sort of way...

[vial8or]

The electoral colleges' votes are supposed to mirror the popular vote
On a humorous side note...anyone hear the Howard Stern segment on Harlem Obama supporters? I'm not an HS fan, but it was all over You Tube so I listened. One of Stern's lackeys went into Harlem and asked people who they were voting for. When they said "Obama" he'd say something like, "so you're for keeping the troops in Iraq indefinitely?" And they would answer "yes" He also asked them if they believed in Obama's VP-"PALIN" to which they also answered affirmatively.
Scary!
..in a funny sort of way...


haha like in 2000.....

[fastkevin]

haha like in 2000.....

No.. I believe it's been the same for over 200 years

[vial8or]

It has.
And than there's the ppl who think if we all just pray, and hope, and vote, we can all make a difference!!!

[fastkevin]

It has.
And than there's the ppl who think if we all just pray, and hope, and vote, we can all make a difference!!!

People do make a difference by voting. If nobody voted, the government would have to make the decision(s) for us. No different than the communists or a dictatorship.

[vial8or]

lol i'm not talking about total not voting. Sure it helps here and there, but don't you think that if the gov. wanted they can rig whatever the f*** they want?

[06evoMR]

i hope obama dont become president -,-

[MrsGFlores]

i hope obama dont become president -,-

I've made my decision and I'm with you on this one.

This is just too awful: :oops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo

[vial8or]

i hope obama dont become president -,-

I've made my decision and I'm with you on this one.

This is just too awful: :oops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo


Lol registered nurse my ass. i bet a lot of it is fake, meant to hit your emotions and shit.
I'm not for either personally, neither can really do shit, but to see some videos on one side and make a decision is kinda whack.

I mean I can make a video of a happy ass gay family, than them getting split up and the kids life ruined cuz mcain is against gays and them adopting. It goes both ways, their both fuck ups

[Alucard]

OBAMA FTW!

[vial8or]

OBAMA FTW!

Haha, they both are pretty lame, but if I HAD to...it would be obama. serious, he could support turning 4th of july into fried chicken day and i'd still chose him over mccain haha

[koolguy21]

OBAMA FTW SON.

[laramsfreak]

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/18556/normal_Evos%20for%20Obama%2008_1020.jpg

[evobevo]

Can you say "bye bye Republicans" ? Its not necessarily a good thing.

[CRX2EVO]

Whether you like NoBlack Obama or John McLame get out and vote. The whole "this is a historic election" thing sounds cheesy but it's true.

I'm more interested in voting for the propositions and various measures that will effect California and Los Angeles specifically. I'm really not that thrilled with either presidential candidate.

[yobless]

Whether you like NoBlack Obama or John McLame get out and vote. The whole "this is a historic election" thing sounds cheesy but it's true.

I'm more interested in voting for the propositions and various measures that will effect California and Los Angeles specifically. I'm really not that thrilled with either presidential candidate.


For once I concur

[Alucard]

John McLame LOL

[chavo_del_8]

It took me like 3 minutes to vote, from the time I parked to the time I pulled out of the lot, I don't understand why it's taking 4-6 hours to vote in the midwest/east coast. Don't those people have jobs or something? Those people always seem to mess something up. I'm looking at you OHIO and Florida too.

[CRX2EVO]

knowing them there's some buffets set up and they get distracted

fatty midwest peeps

[skylinefolife]

Whether you like NoBlack Obama or John McLame get out and vote. The whole "this is a historic election" thing sounds cheesy but it's true.

I'm more interested in voting for the propositions and various measures that will effect California and Los Angeles specifically. I'm really not that thrilled with either presidential candidate.


For once I concur


So true. Damn you crx for being a genius. I voted :) The props are more confusing than ever this year lol

Come on Obama! I would hate to have McCrap as our next fuck up.

[CRX2EVO]

Just got home from voting. Not sure if there was a rush to beat but I didn't have to wait.

Now to watch the news!

[chavo_del_8]

Whether you like NoBlack Obama or John McLame get out and vote. The whole "this is a historic election" thing sounds cheesy but it's true.

I'm more interested in voting for the propositions and various measures that will effect California and Los Angeles specifically. I'm really not that thrilled with either presidential candidate.


For once I concur


So true. Damn you crx for being a genius. I voted :) The props are more confusing than ever this year lol

Come on Obama! I would hate to have McCrap as our next fuck up.


IMO it didn't matter who ran agaisnt McCain. I believe most folks just wanted the Republicans out. Such a mess we have going on.

[mitsuEVO8kid]

^^yeah thats what i was thinking too. But I did agree with mainly voting on the propositions in California and also if you vote, you get free ice cream @ Ben&Jerry's or free coffee at Starbucks! haha

[cas909]

OBAMA!!! President elect with 297 electoral votes!!!!!

[jbenosa]

Yeah, Obama won! Now time's time for this country to get back on its feet!

[vial8or]

LMAO Obama straight raped McOwned

[afrantz]

Congratulations Obama supporters. He won overwhelmingly. I just hope the cool factor of having a mixed race president is enough to get us by when he attempts to make the economy even worse by raising taxes and causes us to shamefully retreat from Iraq therefor emboldening our enemies for decades to come.

As for the get out and vote because the election is "historical" mentality. I'll have you know that every election is historical. What you all really meant to say is that we have a chance to elect a minority race president so all you ill informed people who usually don't vote get out and vote for him because he's a minority, regardless of what he stands for.

Sure, I'm a sore loser, but I guess that goes along with giving a damn about what you believe in!

[yobless]

Congratulations Obama supporters. He won overwhelmingly. I just hope the cool factor of having a mixed race president is enough to get us by when he attempts to make the economy even worse by raising taxes and causes us to shamefully retreat from Iraq therefor emboldening our enemies for decades to come.

As for the get out and vote because the election is "historical" mentality. I'll have you know that every election is historical. What you all really meant to say is that we have a chance to elect a minority race president so all you ill informed people who usually don't vote get out and vote for him because he's a minority, regardless of what he stands for.

Sure, I'm a sore loser, but I guess that goes along with giving a damn about what you believe in!


http://msghelp.net/images/stfu_noob.jpg

[turbolarry]

Sure, I'm a sore loser, but I guess that goes along with giving a damn about what you believe in!


That's OK because I'm a sore winner. You still don't know how it felt to be robbed and kicked in the nuts eight years ago. And then only to watch a bumbling baffon drag the country down.
"shamefully retreat from Iraq"... don't give me that. We are the strongest military force in the world. If we really wanted to do it we could wipe them off the map, but of course Bush can't get anything right. I don't know why any one is surprised the man has never been a success at anything, but morons believe his values and morales BS voted for him. Screw all you religious and conservative freaks too.
HEY BUSH;
"You disappoint me junior." (in my best GHWB voice)
For all you who wacked Republicans voted for Bush; Ha. In your face! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Sorry John McCain, but the Republican backlash is nothing nice huh?
I'll savor this win thank you very much. It's been a long time coming.

[PUNISHER]

Damn, the US is going to be in a shit of trouble with obama.....

[LiquidLife]

Just got home from voting. Not sure if there was a rush to beat but I didn't have to wait.

Now to watch the news!


Who did you vote for and why

[leaveit2bevo]

if you voted for mccain or yes on prop 8 you can go fuck yourself

[nijikon5]

if you voted for mccain or yes on prop 8 you can go fuck yourself


Voting on McCain in California is effectively throwing away your vote. Voting yes on prop 8 means you're just a ignorant hate monger who classify certain people as second class citizens. GJ Fucktards, I cannot believe we took such a huge step backwards and passed 8.

[afrantz]

Sure, I'm a sore loser, but I guess that goes along with giving a damn about what you believe in!


That's OK because I'm a sore winner.Â* You still don't know how it felt to be robbed and kicked in the nuts eight years ago.Â* And then only to watch a bumbling baffon drag the country down.
"shamefully retreat from Iraq"...Â* don't give me that.Â* We are the strongest military force in the world.Â* If we really wanted to do it we could wipe them off the map, but of course Bush can't get anything right.Â* I don't know why any one is surprised the man has never been a success at anything, but morons believe his values and morales BS voted for him.Â* Screw all you religious and conservative freaks too.
HEY BUSH;
"You disappoint me junior."Â* (in my best GHWB voice)
For all you who wacked Republicans voted for Bush; Ha.Â* In your face!Â* Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Sorry John McCain, but the Republican backlash is nothing nice huh?
I'll savor this win thank you very much.Â* It's been a long time coming.


Another vote against Bush in an election he's not running in. I can't believe you are still arguing about Bush even after the Obama vs. McCain contest is over. As far as our military, I believe it is the strongest, most well trained, best equipped force in the world. Unfortunately, all that doesn't really matter when the people at home don't let you complete the mission. The fact is the enemy sees us backing out of places like Vietnam, Somalia, and possibly now Iraq as a sign of weakness that they can take advantage of. Whether you thought we should be in those places in the first place doesn't matter once were there. Defeat costs us lives down the road and I certainly don't want my grandchildren fighting terrorists in Iraq because us voters were too scared to get it done right in our time.

[Wedgemeister]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/political-pictures-george-bush-fist-bump-obama-showed-me.jpg

[LiquidLife]

A lot of you express your opinion, but don't back it up with logic or facts... From my own experience with people and how they present their opinion I believe most Americans vote without knowing what they are voting for, and that is what I call "Throwing your vote away..."

[toku-one]

i think there is a lot of unjust hate towards prop 8.

mostly cause this is the SECOND time in the last 8 years that california has passed a ban on gay marriage. so why is it so suprising... is it cause you all know nothing about prop 22?
now, what you should all do is know that it passed with 63% approval last time as to only 52% this time, so there is progress. things dont happen over night, and since like last time, the vote doesnt matter and the california supreme court will overturn the decision and may even help lead it to the us supreme court.

and honeslty, you should be more worried about the falling support for prop 4 (which we voted on for the 3rd time in 4 years) and what it could do to a womens right to choose. cause unlike gay marriage being a right that people havent had, this would be a right that gets taken away.

but why be informed when its so much easier to just call everyone ignorant

[chavo_del_8]

I love how people back up their opinions with insults and not facts, because saying "fuck this" and "fuck that" makes it totally credible. It's pretty ironic how people preach tolerance yet practice intolerance. Tolerate this and tolerate that but if you don't agree with me then you're a "fucktard".

[LiquidLife]

Why is gay marriage a fundamental right, if it was, why is there so much battling going on over it.Â* If it was constitutionally correct for our government to support gay marriage, why hasn't it been done so long ago?

Isn't being gay similar to one having a certain religious belief?Â* Why isn't polygamy constitutionally correct?Â* Why aren't so many other things fundamental rights?

Does it have something to do with the government will make a lot of money from gay marrage?

I really don't know, so someone enlighten me please.

[chavo_del_8]

Just got home from voting. Not sure if there was a rush to beat but I didn't have to wait.

Now to watch the news!


Who did you vote for and why


I voted for Obama. I consider myself a liberal conservative and my views are faith based for the most part.

I'm tired of Republican politics (tax breaks for the wealthy, borrowing from foreign governments, wall street bailouts when I can't even get a student loan and all the $11 trillion dollar debt that we've incurred in the last 20 years sandwiched around Clinton.)

I'm tired of the Republican inability to keep the separation between church & state. Yes, I'm Christian but I do not believe "politics" & social values should be taught by our schools. We need to teach our kids arithmetic & grammar, not what is "right". That's what parents are for.

Finally, I'm tired of the Republicans trying to play World Police. Yes we should help other countries with basic needs but leave the politics to them. I'm sure they can and will deal with their social issues eventually.

[nijikon5]

I love how people back up their opinions with insults and not facts, because saying "fuck this" and "fuck that" makes it totally credible. It's pretty ironic how people preach tolerance yet practice intolerance. Tolerate this and tolerate that but if you don't agree with me then you're a "fucktard".


Whambulance inc.

I can classify people as "fucktards" can't I? I'm not actually limiting the civil rights of people who I classify as a "fucktard". I'm trying to understand how this suddenly becomes intolerance. People of different ethnic backgrounds, religions, and cultures should be free to think and voice their opinions. Shouldn't I be free to decide my opinions also? Disagreeing with X or Y citizen does not infringe on their civil or social rights.

[chavo_del_8]

Obviously you missed my point. My point is how can you expect sympathy/support for X cause when you bash/insult people who don't necessarily share your opinion? You are just creating division when you should be calling for unity.

A reform in civil rights doesn't just happen overnight, it took minorities over 100 years to achieve that. How can you expect for it to happen in 8?

[LiquidLife]

No one wants to help me out with my questions?Â* I just heard some gay woman complaining over the radio this morning about Prop 8 winning.Â* She said she doesn't understand why more black Americans didn't sympathize the gays because they are the same.

I don't believe in that, being gay, IMO, is a state of mind, not a race of people, or am I wrong?Â* I dunno...

How does that make black people feel?Â* Seems to me that kind of under plays what black people went through, I don't think we ever enslaved gays.

[CRX2EVO]

They way you talk it's clear you think being homosexual is a choice. I lean more towards the belief that people would not choose something that creates so much hatred towards themselves. In addition, people like to forget that homosexuality has been around and/or recognized since ancient Greece was around. It's not some new fab thing to do.

I think organized religion is a joke. The problem with marriage is that religion has a stake in it. The government also has room to rule on it and it both generates money for and costs money for the state when people are married.

In regards to race, you clearly don't choose that either. And in regards to your "what black people went through" let me know how many black people you know were ever slaves. Blacks are humans and homosexuals are human, why give more rights to one than the other?

[LiquidLife]

I wouldn't be asking questions if my mind was made up CRX, you're just looking for someone to oppose, just like always.

[LiquidLife]

Okay, well if you're not going to respond, I have something for you to consider:Â* While I am asking questions, you are stating your opinion without backing it up by facts and experiences.Â* If you really wanted people to listen to what you have to say, you would back it up; but it's "clear" that you just want to argue. :)Â*

[LiquidLife]

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
-- Socrates

If more people asked questions instead of pushing what they know, or think they know, the world would be a better place.

[CRX2EVO]

I don't care if you listen.Â* Asking questions wihout answering any will get you nowhere.

If you want to read a bunch of inconclusive evidence about homoesxuality being genetic or a choice then by all means waste your time. Otherwise my arguments didn't need any other evidence.

You're trying too hard.

[LiquidLife]

I'm not the one defending myself :)

[CRX2EVO]

There's nothing to defend when all you do is ask questions.

Asshat.

[LiquidLife]

I love you too

[nijikon5]

Obviously you missed my point. My point is how can you expect sympathy/support for X cause when you bash/insult people who don't necessarily share your opinion? You are just creating division when you should be calling for unity.

A reform in civil rights doesn't just happen overnight, it took minorities over 100 years to achieve that. How can you expect for it to happen in 8?


You also missed my point. I can criticize as I choose and so can you. We both have the ability to voice out our opinions and can choose to clash ideals if we wish. Yes, progress does take time. I just believe strongly enough for the civil rights of all people to choose to fight tooth and nail over each individual battle.

[nijikon5]

There's nothing to defend when all you do is ask questions.

Asshat.


That seems to be the whole argument with proponents of Prop 8. They try to spew inconclusive and broken rhetoric in a sleight of hand manner to cover the actual agenda. "We don't want to expose kids to it" ... " We have the right to define marriage". "Protection of Marriage act"? Try "Banning the rights of marriage to homosexuals". Prop 8 is amending the California State Constitution where marriages between homosexual citizens are invalid. It is discriminating and humiliating. It regards them as second class citizens as far as social and civil rights are concerned. People will try to dance around the facts but they are what they are.

[LiquidLife]

CRX is defending himself against my indirect method of calling him a "know it all" basically, your response to his last statement has no correlation, but thanks for your insight on the slight of hand methods of proponents of prop 8.

As for me, I don't believe anything any of you have to say, I am just passing some time. :)

[CRX2EVO]

He may have quoted an unrelated statement of mine but he is posting to agree with my arguments.

I too am passing time at work and enjoy making you look bad.

[LiquidLife]

Your arguments of what, I suggest you look back on the conversation.

[Wedgemeister]

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/lolcat%20Sullivan%20Cromwell%20Aaron%20Charney%20A bove%20the%20Law%20blog.jpg

[Wedgemeister]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1005/965300457_618cf7ffa4.jpg

[skylinefolife]

In the end, prop 8 is just delaying things. All of those religious fascists should just get used to it.

edit: lol @ lolcats :D If this argument goes no where, at least those pics were the only thing worth my time :-P

[leaveit2bevo]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.

[Wedgemeister]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.

If this is the case why would you even use the word "GOD"? You are contradicting your own statement. Please tell us you have never said OMG or God that feels good or something to that effect with "GOD" in the sentence?

[leaveit2bevo]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.

If this is the case why would you even use the word "GOD"? You are contradicting your own statement. Please tell us you have never said OMG or God that feels good or something to that effect with "GOD" in the sentence?


http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/08/31/lolcatsdotcomnljqcf35njzjqmpo.jpg

[CRX2EVO]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.


amen

[Wedgemeister]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.


amen


http://www.driko.org/blogicons/lolcat_emperor.jpg

[skylinefolife]

omg, that last lolcats was the best :)

[Wedgemeister]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.


http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/RabbiHitler/ClosetGayFriendship.png

[leaveit2bevo]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.


http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/RabbiHitler/ClosetGayFriendship.png


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/1159434782588.jpg

[boostin45psi]

homosexuality has been around forever it was highly regarded in ancient greece and early rome. If you didnt have a homosexual relationship you were looked down upon. Religion aka huge cult changed all that for a variety of reasons most of them stupid most of them we follow blindly today. If religion didnt take the stance it did on homosexuality and brain wash billions of people to follow the invisible man in the sky then Im sure things would be a lot different today.


http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/RabbiHitler/ClosetGayFriendship.png
So wedbitch is gay after all!

[Wedgemeister]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/rockymeadow/LolCatRenderer-17.jpg

[leaveit2bevo]

is that a hairless cat?

[tecrp7]

Only gays I believe in are hot chicks......... nuff said

I believe being gay is a choice.

Example: I went to school with a chick who was a slut from hell, and a few months ago she marries(Massachusetts) a bulldyke, So was she hiding it for all those years, very doubtful.

And teaching gay is ok in school to children is rediculous, Just like teaching ebonics as a language. Its a joke.

Also to clear it up, Obama sucks and he's going to fail. He don't have the expierence and more than half this shit he promises to "change "will not happen.

[nijikon5]

Only gays I believe in are hot chicks......... nuff said

I believe being gay is a choice.

Example: I went to school with a chick who was a slut from hell, and a few months ago she marries(Massachusetts) a bulldyke, So was she hiding it for all those years, very doubtful.

And teaching gay is ok in school to children is rediculous, Just like teaching ebonics as a language. Its a joke.

Also to clear it up, Obama sucks and he's going to fail. He don't have the expierence and more than half this shit he promises to "change "will not happen.


That was well put and carefully thought out. I see why the rest of the world has such genuine respect for us. I am especially impressed with your one case of anecdotal evidence that completely overrules years of proven scientific evidence.

GAYS ARE FUCKING FAGS, STOP BEING FAGS LULZ.

I DONT WANT MY KIDS KNOWING ABOUT BUTTSECKS AND NIGGASPEAK, FUCK ALL NON-WHITE HETEROSEXUAL MALES.

OBAMA HAS NIGGER BLOOD, LETS FUCKING LYNCH HIM.

[j_nizzle]

Only gays I believe in are hot chicks......... nuff said

I believe being gay is a choice.

Example: I went to school with a chick who was a slut from hell, and a few months ago she marries(Massachusetts) a bulldyke, So was she hiding it for all those years, very doubtful.

And teaching gay is ok in school to children is rediculous, Just like teaching ebonics as a language. Its a joke.

Also to clear it up, Obama sucks and he's going to fail. He don't have the expierence and more than half this shit he promises to "change "will not happen.


wow, just fkn wow....i really didnt think there were people like you still living.

[tecrp7]

What do you mean people like me???

I only said what I believe. HAHA I didn't even say anything harsh and you can't believe people like me are still living!

The majority of people that voted obama, Voted for the wrong reasons. It's sad.

And what makes you so upset about what i said???

[Terenus]

Only gays I believe in are hot chicks......... nuff said

I believe being gay is a choice.

Example: I went to school with a chick who was a slut from hell, and a few months ago she marries(Massachusetts) a bulldyke, So was she hiding it for all those years, very doubtful.

And teaching gay is ok in school to children is rediculous, Just like teaching ebonics as a language. Its a joke.

Also to clear it up, Obama sucks and he's going to fail. He don't have the expierence and more than half this shit he promises to "change "will not happen.


Wow, can't believe such narrow-minded people are on Socalevo.

Since you know so much about gays can you please explain how being "gay" is a choice.

[nijikon5]

What do you mean people like me???

I only said what I believe. HAHA I didn't even say anything harsh and you can't believe people like me are still living!

The majority of people that voted obama, Voted for the wrong reasons. It's sad.

And what makes you so upset about what i said???


J_Nizzle is just amazed that someone with the brain capacity of a small chimpanzee can still be functioning at a human level.

In all seriousness, you make a claim that people voted for Obama for the wrong reasons... The first thing out of your mouth was "ONLY GAYS I LIKE R HOT CHIX.".. Your intelligence continues to shine in your next few comments "I KNEW A SLUT WHO BECAME A FAG ONCE UPON A TIME.".. "DON'T TEACH KIDS ABOUT THE FUCKIN GAYS.".. "OBAMA IS GOING TO FUCKING FAIL EVEN THOUGH IT'S ABOUT ANOTHER 2 MONTHS UNTIL HE'S IN OFFICE."

You are an idiot, plain and simple. There are plenty of intelligent and eloquent people with well thought out ideas who do not support President Elect Obama or gay marriage.

Your slut who became a Lesbian argument fails: Anecdotal evidence, it's like saying Yao Ming is 7'6, all Asian males must be tall.

Teaching children about homosexuals: This won't happen, ECE's have better things to do than teach about controversial subjects at such a young age. Children are far more likely to be exposed to homosexuality through the media.

Obama fails: Do you have a DeLorean or mind-reading machine? Can you already predict how our country will turn out in 4 years? If so, give me the lotto #s. Also did you happen to read the minds of over 50 million Americans and come to the general consensus they voted for the wrong reason after your trip to the future? Give me a fucking break. Our current administration has left our country in shambles and you want to run your mouth about failure?

I am ashamed to be associated with you as an Evo owner, and American.

[tecrp7]

Look the thing about the hot chicks was a joke that any guy appreciates.

I still don't believe people are born gay. And the slut comment, Was an example.

I don't believe along with MILLIONS of other AMERICANS that Obama has the experience to be President after 4 yrs of being in Congress. Give him a few more years under his belt and maybe. I'm not a Democrat, So like everyone else there going to bash on the opposing side. And I know way to many people that voted for Obama for reasons other than change, And in no way did I say EVERYONE. There are Democrats out there voting for Democrats. And according to the polls, There was a higher rate of Democrats voting this time time. Thats all I'm going to about that. Obama did have going for him Bush being a Republican and everyone blaming every little problem that happend in the last 8 yrs on him.

And sue me if I'm wrong, But PROP-8 wanted to allow teachers the ability to teach about gay is right? That isn't right.

Last time I checked I earned my right to be an American! Have you?
And I am in no way associated with you!

And it seems like a lot of people are kind of hurt about the whole "gay" subject, Wonder why?

[nijikon5]

Look the thing about the hot chicks was a joke that any guy appreciates.

I still don't believe people are born gay. And the slut comment, Was an example.

I don't believe along with MILLIONS of other AMERICANS that Obama doesn't have the experience to be President after 4 yrs of being in Congress. Give him a few more years under his belt and maybe. I'm not a Democrat, So like everyone else there going to bash on the opposing side. And I know way to many people that voted for Obama for reasons other than change, And in no way did I say EVERYONE. There are Democrats out there voting for Democrats. And according to the polls, There was a higher rate of Democrats voting this time time. Thats all I'm going to about that. Obama did have going for him Bush being a Republican and everyone blaming every little problem that happend in the last 8 yrs on him.

And sue me if I'm wrong, But PROP-8 wanted to allow teachers the ability to teach about gay is right? That isn't right.

Last time I checked I earned my right to be an American! Have you?
And I am in no way associated with you!

And it seems like a lot of people are kind of hurt about the whole "gay" subject, Wonder why?


You are wrong. Prop 8 is called "Banning Marriage for Homosexuals". It has absolutely nothing about "defining marriage" or "teaching homosexuality to children". Prop 8 is to amend the California Constitution with a line that says something similar to "Marriage will only be valid between a man and woman". It is about limiting civil rights for a group of people.

Studies have shown that homosexuals have a larger hypothalamus in their brains. There is a ton of biological research done that has shown that homosexuality is as much nature as it is nurture.

As far as blaming Bush for everything. It's not the little things people are upset about. The results of our country 8 years later speak for themselves. We are mired in war that was under false pretenses'. Our economy and employment rates are tanking. Wall street and main street is in ruins. Obama has only been in congress for 4 years but what about George W? He was a Governor for 6 years prior to the 2000 election. Does his fathers term ( who put us through a recession also ) somehow give him more qualification?

I pay taxes, I vote, I stayed informed about both national and international current events. Are you going to tell me somehow serving in the military qualifies you as more American than myself? I respect the men and women that serve our country but ask yourself why you did it. You received compensated for your time. I did not receive compensation for the time I put into school to become an educator, in fact I had to pay to receive that education. I have no regrets about that either. Would you have served your country without compensation?

Go ahead and call us faggots. Is this what you are insinuating? Because we feel strongly about defending the civil rights of homosexuals we are suddenly homosexual? You were completely uninformed about Prop 8 in the first place. Let me justify my reasons of my support. I am an Asian American, 50 years ago Asian Americans, Latinos, African Americans were not allowed to marry Caucasians due to anti-miscegenation laws. Any Caucasian guilty of marrying a "colored" person could have their own citizenship stripped away for it. Similarly many "colored" people who immigrated to America were not allowed to become a naturalized citizen. I would not want to be treated as a second class citizen due to my sexual orientation, sexual preference, race, ethnicity, or any other factors I have no control over. That is why I do not support treating our homosexual population as second class citizens.

[Terenus]

Last time I checked I earned my right to be an American! Have you?
And I am in no way associated with you!


Wow, I can't believe you said that.



And sue me if I'm wrong, But PROP-8 wanted to allow teachers the ability to teach about gay is right? That isn't right.


Gaying up our children 1 class at a time. Did you even read the Proposition? Let me show you.


Eleminates Rights of Same-Sex Couples To Marry. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.

-Changes the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California.
-Provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.


This is Proposition 8, good job listening to the ill-informed propaganda churches have paid for.

[yobless]

The people have voted and Yes on 8 is a go. Â*I believe 61 percent of Californians voted in the previous election not to allow the definition of marriage be changed. Â*Spare me the bull crap that homo sexual couples don't have ANY rights, that they are being discriminated, that they are "second class" citizens. Â*Homosexuals are still, by law, protected like hetero couples, it's just the definition that is different. Â*I guess that isn't good enough for them as they want the whole definition of marriage to include them. Â*

Funny how Obama is a key reason why Yes passed. Â*More African Americans voted in this election and it showed as they voted Yes on 8. Â*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofq-N-8WAjY

So quit your fkin' crying bro...2 times this issue has come up for vote and both times it has been shot down. Â*The "No on 8" camp out spent the Yes campaign and still lost. Â*Maybe they should be protesting whoever was in charge of their campaign for wasting their money. Â*

See you again in 4 years when this issue comes back up. Â*I'll be voting Hellz NO on that upcoming proposition since Gay activists will write up a "Yes on gay marriage prop" for the next election.

You have to love America...BTW early Happy Vets day to all those who receive "compensation" for what they do. Â*If it were up to nijikon5 we'd still have a draft implemented and we would basically get nothing in return.

[Terenus]

Sorry Will but homosexuals are not protected by law. I'll show you a couple examples.

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.




You have to love America...BTW early Happy Vets day to all those who receive "compensation" for what they do.Â* If it were up to nijikon5 we'd still have a draft implemented and we would basically get nothing in return.


I think you missed the point, when tecrp7 was comparing how he's more of an "American" than Nijikon5 because he served in the military. Everyone is compensated in different ways, Nijikon5 and I were compensated by our state taxes to allow us to go to city colleges and Vets are compensated with money and Vet discounts throughout society.

[nijikon5]

The people have voted and Yes on 8 is a go. Â*I believe 61 percent of Californians voted in the previous election not to allow the definition of marriage be changed. Â*Spare me the bull crap that homo sexual couples don't have ANY rights, that they are being discriminated, that they are "second class" citizens. Â*Homosexuals are still, by law, protected like hetero couples, it's just the definition that is different. Â*I guess that isn't good enough for them as they want the whole definition of marriage to include them. Â*

Funny how Obama is a key reason why Yes passed. Â*More African Americans voted in this election and it showed as they voted Yes on 8. Â*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofq-N-8WAjY

So quit your fkin' crying bro...2 times this issue has come up for vote and both times it has been shot down. Â*The "No on 8" camp out spent the Yes campaign and still lost. Â*Maybe they should be protesting whoever was in charge of their campaign for wasting their money. Â*

See you again in 4 years when this issue comes back up. Â*I'll be voting Hellz NO on that upcoming proposition since Gay activists will write up a "Yes on gay marriage prop" for the next election.

You have to love America...BTW early Happy Vets day to all those who receive "compensation" for what they do. Â*If it were up to nijikon5 we'd still have a draft implemented and we would basically get nothing in return.


Wow... Did I say somewhere that I didn't think people in the military didn't deserve compensation? tercp was insinuating that somehow I didn't earn my right to be American by not joining the military. People who serve the country have every right to do it voluntarily and be fairly compensated, re-read what I wrote. I was just asking if he would have served if compensation was not involved. Get over yourself, stop spinning what I said into something completely untrue.

You believe whatever the fuck you want to believe. Turning your head to discrimination doesn't mean it isn't happening. Go ahead and vote again in 4 years. This issue will be taken up to the state supreme court and be overturned just like before.

[vial8or]

LMAO.....I LOVE threads like these. It's where you truly learn who's a fucking idiot.

It seems there are more open-minded non-ignorant people here though than stupid backwards thinking ass hats

[SpySat]

It seems there are more open-minded non-ignorant people here though than stupid backwards thinking ass hats Uh, so what did you just call me?

[leaveit2bevo]

The people have voted and Yes on 8 is a go. Â*I believe 61 percent of Californians voted in the previous election not to allow the definition of marriage be changed. Â*Spare me the bull crap that homo sexual couples don't have ANY rights, that they are being discriminated, that they are "second class" citizens. Â*Homosexuals are still, by law, protected like hetero couples, it's just the definition that is different. Â*I guess that isn't good enough for them as they want the whole definition of marriage to include them. Â*

Funny how Obama is a key reason why Yes passed. Â*More African Americans voted in this election and it showed as they voted Yes on 8. Â*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofq-N-8WAjY

So quit your fkin' crying bro...2 times this issue has come up for vote and both times it has been shot down. Â*The "No on 8" camp out spent the Yes campaign and still lost. Â*Maybe they should be protesting whoever was in charge of their campaign for wasting their money. Â*

See you again in 4 years when this issue comes back up. Â*I'll be voting Hellz NO on that upcoming proposition since Gay activists will write up a "Yes on gay marriage prop" for the next election.

You have to love America...BTW early Happy Vets day to all those who receive "compensation" for what they do. Â*If it were up to nijikon5 we'd still have a draft implemented and we would basically get nothing in return.


why are you against gays right to marriage?

[chavo_del_8]

I choose to retract my post simply due to the fact that although never one to shy away from controversy, it's breeding hostility instead of meaningful and constructive dialogue. I guess we'll agree to disagree. I ban myself from this thread LOL.Â* O0

[tecrp7]

For 1, Let me say that I am the least religious person here.... So in no way, shape or form have do I listened to any BS a church has to say.

And maybe I am uninformed about prop-8. I didn't know shit about it till a few weeks ago, So I was getting my info from other sources.

What compensation are you talking about nikon??? Being paid the shitty money we get paid for the work we do??? Living in hostile conditions??? A little bit of VA benefits??? Give me a break. And I wasn't insinuating you weren't an american, I was simply asking you a ?. I have served my country and earned the right to what I have to say.

Last time I checked you can get Gov. and state help. And I have not been able to take advantage of going to school yet because I can't afford it. The GI Bill doesnt pay us enough to go to school fulltime and not have to work. I joined the military when I was 18, So do you honestly think when the recruiter told me "Yea man, you make 400 dollars every 2 weeks" that I was thilled about that. NO. But I joined an all VOLUNTEER force because I wanted to, It felt right. Now knowing all I do and how military life is, Would I do it all over again. Of course I would. It was one of the best times of my life. You learn a lot about life and how great we as a country have it.

Only reason I questioned him being an American was simply the fact that he was ashamed?!?!?! of me being an American. He can go pound sand for that statement. I don't think he or any of you have lost friends in a gun battle, And if you have, It was definilty not defending this country. But, If you have actually lost firends in way, Then why would you vote Demo.? The first thing they do is cut military funding and we wouldn't have the best of gear and weapons we do today! No matter were the Repub. party is sitting with everything else, They take care of OUR military which in return takes care of you!

Now since someone has said that Gays have been around since the Greeks and Roman times. And correct me if I'm wrong, But it obvioulsy wasn't approved to get married from then till now. Its actually funny because I honestly don't give a shit if they do get married. It brings in more revenue for the state and Govt.

I prob forgot some stuff. But I am sure one of you will bring it up!

Happy Veterans Day to those of us who have served and continue to serve.

[leaveit2bevo]

maybe if you wanted to go to school you shouldnt have bought a evo X

[tecrp7]

Well let me rephrase a little then. I have something good going right now, But my job requires a 75%+ travel and a lot of overtime. So its hard to get school in. I registured for online classes, But the job requires a lot right now.

And I can more than afford my car, Just my job is priority right now and is very hard to try to get school in. Maybe next year when the new Bill comes into affect maybe I can go to school fulltime.

But thanks for your concern.

[SpySat]

I have served my country and earned the right to what I have to say. Just to be clear, the right to speak your mind comes from being born in this country, NOT from being/having been in the military. Serving your country in the military doesn't give you any more [or less] rights than any other citizen.


I don't think he or any of you have lost friends in a gun battle, And if you have, It was definilty not defending this country. I "donated" eleven high-school classmates, two close-knit friends and one family member to Vietnam defending this country. Three other direct family members survived that era while defending the country in Vietnam. Both of my parents are buried in a National Cemetery. My one surviving uncle is a retired colonel after twenty-five years in Army Special Forces and he has more medals that John Kerry and John McCain combined. He was shot down three times flying chinooks in 'Nam (and apparently smart enough to not get captured). Does that count?

I, personally, find your attitude rather condescending - like you're better than some *because* you're current or ex-military.Â* I'm not belittling your personal decision to join the military, but some of us need to keep the streets safe and the factories open back home while you're off playing war. We still have gun battles - with real deaths too - here in good 'Old America. Dead is still dead.


The first thing they do is cut military fundingÂ* I seem to recall that the most base closings happened during the Reagan/Bush Administration. Where do you get the idea that Dems cut military funding? Or is that they cut more wasteful spending?

You can thank Donald Rumsfallen for not being properly equipped. While ~70% of the current war budget goes to contractors, NOT to the military.


I think the original anti-gay argument, from several thousand years back, comes from the concept that homosexuality threatens the survival of the species - since same-gender couplings can't reproduce. However with >6Billion humanoids on the planet and the human not on any endangered species list, that doesn't appear to be a problem.

The real unasked question here is does giving "equal rights" to assorted factions of a society increase or decrease the population of that faction? And does that change in population have any measurable effect on the society as a whole. As you know, in a democracy, increasing the size of a group can have a dramatic effect on future policies along with changing the definition of "normal".

Happy Veterans Day (which is tomorrow, iirc?).

[tecrp7]

Thanks for all your input SpySat. You have obviously been around a lot longer than I have and I will be the first to admit I do have some matureing to do. I wasn't trying to state I was better because I joined the military, But when he states he is ashamed I am American, Which is oburde. Wouldn't you come back with a defending statement?

Needless to say, I still don't care if gays are allowed or not allowed. I was just simply making a comment.

Also I'm glad you brought up the Contractor thing. Now correct me if I'm wrong, But isn't contractors affiliated directly with the military? So that would make those ~70% of funds still going to military? I'm just saying that because I work for a Contracting company and I am supporting the Army. I'm not attaching you in anyway, But you seem to be pretty wise and I would like to hear your input on that.

And to say that I am sorry for your losses in previous wars. Its a shitty feeling when someone pays the ultimate sacrifice for thier country. Whether its immidiate family, friends or the thought of someone losing there life.

Oh and just to say War isn't playing.

And yes tomorrow is Veterans Day!

[yobless]

Sorry Will but homosexuals are not protected by law. I'll show you a couple examples.

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.



Point taken Alex...thanks.

At the end of the day all I end of hearing from "No on 8" people is that those who support 8 are a bunch of "degenerate haters/homo phobs." Lets not disregard that one beauty of this country is our ability to practice whatever faith we want. With this in mind how the hell are you going to vote No on 8 if it goes against what you inherently believe? Tis the case with me...but It is my right. People just get so defensive when others don't agree with their point of view.

The worse you hear Yes on 8 supports call you guys are cry babies for not taking the loss on the chin. But you'll never hear me or the majority of my friends call you some "cock sucking puta" for supporting No on 8. It seems like the No on 8 camp is filled with negativity. Take the loss, regroup for the next election and try to come up with a proposition/bill/legislation that will gather up more support and sway those in between votes.

BTW why all the negativity surrounding Obama? I remember some unknown POS governor a couple of years ago became president of the U.S. He didn't do too bad of job. Yeah the dude wasn't perfect and his foreign policy against terrorism was pretty weak sauce but his administration did cut welfare benefits for those who didn't need them. The economy wasn't in that bad a shape under his tenure. So give Obama a shot...if he sucks then in 4 years somebody else will be elected President.

[nijikon5]

Thanks for all your input SpySat. You have obviously been around a lot longer than I have and I will be the first to admit I do have some matureing to do. I wasn't trying to state I was better because I joined the military, But when he states he is ashamed I am American, Which is oburde. Wouldn't you come back with a defending statement?

Needless to say, I still don't care if gays are allowed or not allowed. I was just simply making a comment.

Also I'm glad you brought up the Contractor thing. Now correct me if I'm wrong, But isn't contractors affiliated directly with the military? So that would make those ~70% of funds still going to military? I'm just saying that because I work for a Contracting company and I am supporting the Army. I'm not attaching you in anyway, But you seem to be pretty wise and I would like to hear your input on that.

And to say that I am sorry for your losses in previous wars. Its a shitty feeling when someone pays the ultimate sacrifice for thier country. Whether its immidiate family, friends or the thought of someone losing there life.

Oh and just say War isn't playing.

And yes tomorrow is Veterans Day!


Why do you and yobless choose to skew my words as you see fit? Did I say anywhere that it WAS a shame you are an American? NO, re-read what I said. I simply said that I am ashamed to be associated with you because we are both Evo owners and Americans. If you want to argue your stance in a well thought out and eloquent manner, that is fine. To come on and spew off unproven facts, personal opinions versus scientific research all the time with no real sources is pointless. That's the beauty of America though, we can voice any opinion we want.

As far as compensation and what SpySat brought up. A contractor is an independent 3rd party doing work for another party. Instead of directly paying and increasing compensation of our Armed Forces (via increased gov't defense funding) we shell out more money to other companies such as BlackWater. Even though it is supporting the military, someone must get shafted due to defense budgets, because it is easier to shaft a GI (money wise) than it is to shaft the mercs.

This whole issue of "compensation" got you and yobless fired up and spouting off some shit that was completely unrelated to what I said. I wish people would read what I fucking said. I first off explicitly said I have respect for those in the Armed Forces, I have plenty of friends who have joined. That shit about implementing a draft and not getting paid is just over the top hilarious. People who were drafted still got paid for their service. My whole damn point about compensation is vigilance. You were compensated for your time, it is your opinion that you believe compensation was unjust, I can respect that. However, after serving doesn't give you the right not be vigilant about current social and fiscal issues. Part of being a citizen in a democracy and country where we can speak our minds is eternal vigilance.

I will throw out my point one more time. Read what Prop 8 is about, Terenus posted it earlier. It does not state anywhere in the proposition about teaching children about gay rights, gay marriage, or anything gay related. It is about banning the civil function of marriage for gays. As far as president elect Obama goes, it is impossible to judge the job he has done at president because he hasn't gotten any time to put in his work yet. This is a reply to your original post:

"Only gays I believe in are hot chicks......... nuff said

I believe being gay is a choice.

Example: I went to school with a chick who was a slut from hell, and a few months ago she marries(Massachusetts) a bulldyke, So was she hiding it for all those years, very doubtful.

And teaching gay is ok in school to children is rediculous, Just like teaching ebonics as a language. Its a joke.

Also to clear it up, Obama sucks and he's going to fail. He don't have the expierence and more than half this shit he promises to "change "will not happen."

[leaveit2bevo]

I think the original anti-gay argument, from several thousand years back, comes from the concept that homosexuality threatens the survival of the species - since same-gender couplings can't reproduce. However with >6Billion humanoids on the planet and the human not on any endangered species list, that doesn't appear to be a problem.

The real unasked question here is does giving "equal rights" to assorted factions of a society increase or decrease the population of that faction? And does that change in population have any measurable effect on the society as a whole. As you know, in a democracy, increasing the size of a group can have a dramatic effect on future policies along with changing the definition of "normal".

Happy Veterans Day (which is tomorrow, iirc?).


One of the reasons it started in ancient greece was population control but when religions like judaism started they were a small nomadic faction so the population imperative comes into effect in regards to strength in numbers to survive.

[leaveit2bevo]

Sorry Will but homosexuals are not protected by law. I'll show you a couple examples.

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.



Point taken Alex...thanks.

At the end of the day all I end of hearing from "No on 8" people is that those who support 8 are a bunch of "degenerate haters/homo phobs."Â* Lets not disregard that one beauty of this country is our ability to practice whatever faith we want.Â* With this in mind how the hell are you going to vote No on 8 if it goes against what you inherently believe?Â* Tis the case with me...but It is my right.Â* People just get so defensive when others don't agree with their point of view.Â*

The worse you hear Yes on 8 supports call you guys are cry babies for not taking the loss on the chin.Â* But you'll never hear me or the majority of my friends call you some "cock sucking puta" for supporting No on 8.Â* It seems like the No on 8 camp is filled with negativity.Â* Take the loss, regroup for the next election and try to come up with a proposition/bill/legislation that will gather up more support and sway those in between votes.

BTW why all the negativity surrounding Obama?Â* I remember some unknown POS governor a couple of years ago became president of the U.S.Â* He didn't do too bad of job.Â* Yeah the dude wasn't perfect and his foreign policy against terrorism was pretty weak sauce but his administration did cut welfare benefits for those who didn't need them.Â* The economy wasn't in that bad a shape under his tenure.Â* So give Obama a shot...if he sucks then in 4 years somebody else will be elected President.


Heres an interesting fact think back to the civil rights days 80% of americans would have voted against it but the supreme court took it upon themselves to make the decision for the idiots in america, just like they did in California. Theres an abundance of data that supports education has a lot to due with your view towards homosexuality. If you look at the district map of how California voted on prop 8 you will find that almost all the counties with the highest number of educated people voted no on prop 8, with the exception being orange county.

[tecrp7]

Point taken Alex...thanks.

At the end of the day all I end of hearing from "No on 8" people is that those who support 8 are a bunch of "degenerate haters/homo phobs." Lets not disregard that one beauty of this country is our ability to practice whatever faith we want. With this in mind how the hell are you going to vote No on 8 if it goes against what you inherently believe? Tis the case with me...but It is my right. People just get so defensive when others don't agree with their point of view.

The worse you hear Yes on 8 supports call you guys are cry babies for not taking the loss on the chin. But you'll never hear me or the majority of my friends call you some "cock sucking puta" for supporting No on 8. It seems like the No on 8 camp is filled with negativity. Take the loss, regroup for the next election and try to come up with a proposition/bill/legislation that will gather up more support and sway those in between votes.

BTW why all the negativity surrounding Obama? I remember some unknown POS governor a couple of years ago became president of the U.S. He didn't do too bad of job. Yeah the dude wasn't perfect and his foreign policy against terrorism was pretty weak sauce but his administration did cut welfare benefits for those who didn't need them. The economy wasn't in that bad a shape under his tenure. So give Obama a shot...if he sucks then in 4 years somebody else will be elected President.



Yobless, That was well stated.

And honestly thats what I believe almost word for word.

My original post was just thrown in there from when I was bouncing around the different pages and I just wrote something without really thinking it threw. And I prob let my emotions get the best of me there after.

Religion and Politics is always a sensitive matter no matter where its talked about. Everyones views are so different and there's always going to be disgreement everywhere.

I don't want to argue with people, Specially with Evo owners when there isn't many of us.

[nijikon5]

Sorry Will but homosexuals are not protected by law. I'll show you a couple examples.

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.



Point taken Alex...thanks.

At the end of the day all I end of hearing from "No on 8" people is that those who support 8 are a bunch of "degenerate haters/homo phobs." Â*Lets not disregard that one beauty of this country is our ability to practice whatever faith we want. Â*With this in mind how the hell are you going to vote No on 8 if it goes against what you inherently believe? Â*Tis the case with me...but It is my right. Â*People just get so defensive when others don't agree with their point of view. Â*

The worse you hear Yes on 8 supports call you guys are cry babies for not taking the loss on the chin. Â*But you'll never hear me or the majority of my friends call you some "cock sucking puta" for supporting No on 8. Â*It seems like the No on 8 camp is filled with negativity. Â*Take the loss, regroup for the next election and try to come up with a proposition/bill/legislation that will gather up more support and sway those in between votes.

BTW why all the negativity surrounding Obama? Â*I remember some unknown POS governor a couple of years ago became president of the U.S. Â*He didn't do too bad of job. Â*Yeah the dude wasn't perfect and his foreign policy against terrorism was pretty weak sauce but his administration did cut welfare benefits for those who didn't need them. Â*The economy wasn't in that bad a shape under his tenure. Â*So give Obama a shot...if he sucks then in 4 years somebody else will be elected President.


This is the problem with Prop 8, it is Faith based. The fundamental politics of our country say that there needs to be a Separation of Church and State. The problem with Marriage is that it is both a ceremony in a religious context and a civil service that has litigious and contractual obligations. Do I feel that Christians have the right to believe that the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman? Absolutely, people should be able to preach and believe as they see fit. The Puritans left England to escape Religious persecution. I don't believe Prop 8 supporters are all homo-phobs etc etc. I do believe that trying to implement your ideas/views of Morality BASED on religion into society is wrong. We can sit here and argue that the Founding Fathers were all Christians and "God Bless America" etc etc. The fact is that American politics were founded upon the notion of Separation of Church and State for a reason. People should not be forced to live under a set of Judeo-Christian imposed laws of morality. It is discriminating and disrespectful to the millions of non-Judeo-Christian Americans.

[yobless]

Crazy thing is that, as of now, the majority of Californians are on the Yes on 8 side. Â*I guess that the 53% of Californians are just full of hate against gays...how can you disregard culture, race, upbringing, religion had something to do with how the vote turned out? Â*It does seem like the gay rights movement is picking up steam. Â*4 years ago similar legislation passed with a 61% of the vote compared to 53% this year. Â*I think the third time will be the charm for you guys...don't give up. Â*

About the voting demographics...didn't the No on 8 side think they were going to win L.A. county by a wider margin? Â*Don't be mad at us Latinos or Blacks because our religions and cultures teach us that homosexuality is wrong...those 2 cultures are WAY different than the Asian and Caucasian culture. Â*A fact that is proven.

nijikon5 Point well taken on trying to implement faith based legislation to all those who could care and care less about it...I'm not going to pretend like I have a rebuttal to that one :D I am a big fan of a democracy that allows Constitutional legislation to be put up to a vote. So far it's 0 for 2. It doesn't mean it won't pass or won't be found unconstitutional by the U.S. Constitution one day.

Contributing to the election thread...OBAMA FTMFW!!!!

[leaveit2bevo]

Crazy thing is that, as of now, the majority of Californians are on the Yes on 8 side. Â*I guess that the 53% of Californians are just full of hate against gays...how can you disregard culture, race, upbringing, religion had something to do with how the vote turned out? Â*It does seem like the gay rights movement is picking up steam. Â*4 years ago similar legislation passed with a 61% of the vote compared to 53% this year. Â*I think the third time will be the charm for you guys...don't give up. Â*

About the voting demographics...didn't the No on 8 side think they were going to win L.A. county by a wider margin? Â*Don't be mad at us Latinos or Blacks because our religions and cultures teach us that homosexuality is wrong...those 2 cultures are WAY different than the Asian and Caucasian culture. Â*A fact that is proven.

nijikon5 Point well taken on trying to implement faith based legislation to all those who could care and care less about it...I'm not going to pretend like I have a rebuttal to that one :D I am a big fan of a democracy that allows Constitutional legislation to be put up to a vote. So far it's 0 for 2. It doesn't mean it won't pass or won't be found unconstitutional by the U.S. Constitution one day.

Contributing to the election thread...OBAMA FTMFW!!!!


based on facts it has a lot more to do with education then religion.

[yobless]

I know nijikon stated "I do believe that trying to implement your ideas/views of Morality BASED on religion into society is wrong." I thought about it and wondered about the separation of church and state. It seems like this initiative is church based and crosses over towards the state side and makes gay marriage null and void. Now flip this...if a proposition allowing same sex couples to marry passed wouldn't the state government be dictating the marriage doctrine taught at religious institutes? I know that the state/people do not want the church stepping all over them with their agendas but what about the church? Are they not afforded some rights that allow them to worship as they see fit, as long as it doesn't violate the constitution?

My hypothetical is this and I would like nijikon5 or anybody else that can answer to the best of their abilities...

1. gay couple is married, legally
2. gay couple wants their religious institution/church to allow it/accept it
3. church/religious institution will not accept it, against belief/doctrine/whatever
4. church is sued for discrimination against law allowing same sex marriage
5. church might lose tax exemption/lawsuit
6 church is now forced to accept this legislation, change its doctrine

I don't know if you see what I was trying to get at....if a religious institution views same sex marriage as morally wrong, they are allowed to under current laws. As of now it is not against the constitution of the U.S. to not allow same sex marriages. So a church can have it's policy/standards concerning its members and what they choose to teach. I personally do not want my religious beliefs being dictated by what the state wants. I believe in the true separation of church and state.

I remember living in Paraguay and how their government handled marriages. First one would be married civilly. This was a marriage outside of the church. Then one would be married by a church to the bride and grooms standard, whether they be catholic, evangelical or whatever.

[leaveit2bevo]

1. Black couple is married, legally
2. Black couple wants their religious institution/church to allow it/accept it
3. church/religious institution will not accept it, against belief/doctrine/whatever
4. church is sued for discrimination against law allowing black marriage
5. church might lose tax exemption/lawsuit
6 church is now forced to accept this legislation, change its doctrine

what now? its all about equality

[yobless]

1. Black couple is married, legally
2. Black couple wants their religious institution/church to allow it/accept it
3. church/religious institution will not accept it, against belief/doctrine/whatever
4. church is sued for discrimination against law allowing black marriage
5. church might lose tax exemption/lawsuit
6 church is now forced to accept this legislation, change its doctrine

what now? its all about equality


The thing is that the above mentioned scenario is against the Constitution...and a lawsuit would win and destroy that church. Come on bro, come up with a better one than that.

[leaveit2bevo]

1. Black couple is married, legally
2. Black couple wants their religious institution/church to allow it/accept it
3. church/religious institution will not accept it, against belief/doctrine/whatever
4. church is sued for discrimination against law allowing black marriage
5. church might lose tax exemption/lawsuit
6 church is now forced to accept this legislation, change its doctrine

what now? its all about equality


The thing is that the above mentioned scenario is against the Constitution...and a lawsuit would win and destroy that church. Come on bro, come up with a better one than that.


hahaha then what was the civil rights movement about? like I said earlier the civil rights movement would have been shot down by American voters. Just because it was unconstitutional doesn't mean it didn't happen and a lot of Church's discriminated against black people. Are constitutional rights are violated all the time so your argument sucks.

[j_nizzle]

i guess this is a response set best for yobless's post....

for example, you and any female citizen of california, can go to a court and be legally "married" so long as none of you are already legally married to someone else and you can somehow prove to a clerk that there are reasons why you two should be married.

when married, you two can abide by, but are not limited to, 1000 or so laws, protections, what have you in California. Same-sex couples can not do this with the Passage of Prop 8.

They can, at most in the state of California, have a domestic partnership and suffer from taxes which, you (if married to a woman in the State of California) would not be subject to under the definition of marriage.

The problem or loophole regarding the issue is the entire terminology that "marriage" falls under. because marriage is defined as a "legal" and not religious union between a man and a woman, same-sex couples cant be married. They cant rest assured that their assets, children, etc can fall under the care of their spouse given situations or circumstances that they may lose work, get hurt, die (Chuck and Larry scenario for example). Since all the laws of the country regarding marriage assume man and a woman, re-writing laws to change the definition of marriage is out of the question unless there is an obvious nationwide desire for this (which probably wont happen in our lifetimes). Extending the right to marry to same-sex couples simply allows them the right to share the civil binding/liberties that hetero-couples have. it really does not involve religion or churches. im pretty sure, given the seperation of church and state (or what's left of it...), churches can still refuse to marry same-sex couples for religious purposes and not be sued for discrimination (kind of fits under how a person cant really be a jew, muslim, christian, and buddhist at the same time). it's like a worshiper of satan going into the church of latter day saints and "forcing" the church to marry him under the satanic doctrine or he'll "sue" the church for discrimination if they dont. not like they will...

when the state had allowed for same sex marriage around a year back, many couples took this step and got legally married in california, adopted, or even had kids...with the passage of 8, the marriages that were "legally" formed are now nullified. if the flip side were a specific race of people (like Bevo pointed out) being stripped of their marriages, think about the after-effects...kids now only have one "legal" parent, people now have multiple tax forms, etc. etc. Â*

i think the main issue overall concerning this is that we have come too far as a people to continue the unnecessary discrimination toward a group of people on blanket statements and general fear. those of us who are minorities can truly attest to that; if not, your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

for those that are saying it's an Obama issue, just STFU now. he's is the presidential elect, not the overall law maker in the country. yes, federal law trumps state law, but he's risking way too much if he tries to solve this problem with his "soon to be" power and we all know it.

sorry for the long rant/post/going off topic...kinda a heated issue for some of us and i wanted to say something.

[nijikon5]

I know nijikon stated "I do believe that trying to implement your ideas/views of Morality BASED on religion into society is wrong." I thought about it and wondered about the separation of church and state. It seems like this initiative is church based and crosses over towards the state side and makes gay marriage null and void. Now flip this...if a proposition allowing same sex couples to marry passed wouldn't the state government be dictating the marriage doctrine taught at religious institutes? I know that the state/people do not want the church stepping all over them with their agendas but what about the church? Are they not afforded some rights that allow them to worship as they see fit, as long as it doesn't violate the constitution?

My hypothetical is this and I would like nijikon5 or anybody else that can answer to the best of their abilities...

1. gay couple is married, legally
2. gay couple wants their religious institution/church to allow it/accept it
3. church/religious institution will not accept it, against belief/doctrine/whatever
4. church is sued for discrimination against law allowing same sex marriage
5. church might lose tax exemption/lawsuit
6 church is now forced to accept this legislation, change its doctrine

I don't know if you see what I was trying to get at....if a religious institution views same sex marriage as morally wrong, they are allowed to under current laws. As of now it is not against the constitution of the U.S. to not allow same sex marriages. So a church can have it's policy/standards concerning its members and what they choose to teach. I personally do not want my religious beliefs being dictated by what the state wants. I believe in the true separation of church and state.

I remember living in Paraguay and how their government handled marriages. First one would be married civilly. This was a marriage outside of the church. Then one would be married by a church to the bride and grooms standard, whether they be catholic, evangelical or whatever.


yobless, I understand completely what you are coming from with your question. I hope this can shed some light on your concerns:

You are afraid same-sex marriage will force churches and other religious groups to perform such marriages or face losing their tax-exempt status. Proponents point to a case in New Jersey, where a Methodist-based nonprofit owned seaside land that included a boardwalk pavilion. It obtained an exemption from state property tax for the land on the grounds that it was open for public use and access. Events such as weddings -- of any religion -- could be held in the pavilion by reservation. But when a lesbian couple sought to book the pavilion for a commitment ceremony, the nonprofit balked, saying this went against its religious beliefs.

The court ruled against the nonprofit, not because gay rights trump religious rights but because public land has to be open to everyone or it's not public. The ruling does not affect churches' religious tax exemptions or their freedom to marry whom they please on their private property, just as Catholic priests do not have to perform marriages for divorced people and Orthodox synagogues can refuse to provide space for the weddings of interfaith couples. And Proposition 8 has no bearing on the issue; note that the New Jersey case wasn't about a wedding ceremony.

[Looney Tuning]

Heres an interesting fact think back to the civil rights days 80% of americans would have voted against it but the supreme court took it upon themselves to make the decision for the idiots in america, just like they did in California. Theres an abundance of data that supports education has a lot to due with your view towards homosexuality. If you look at the district map of how California voted on prop 8 you will find that almost all the counties with the highest number of educated people voted no on prop 8, with the exception being orange county.


If you look at the exit polls the biggest factor in determing how people voted on 8 was religion. 84% of those who attend religious service weekly voted yes, and 83% who never attend religious service voted no. 58% w/o a college degree voted yes and 42% voted no.

Religion was the primary motive to vote yes on 8. This is a problem because religion is based on core values that cannot be compromised by the followers. It has been my experience since I started teaching college 13 years ago that a large majority of religious students are dogmatic and rigid in their beliefs. They are beyond reach of rational arguments. There is no point debating the issue of homosexuality or abortion rights with them. Their starting point is faith, faith in a book of worship. Faith cannot be proven or disproven. Faith is beyond the reach of the scientifc method. A majority of Americans believe that the stories in the Bible (Noah's Arch, Parting the Read Sea, Mary getting pregnant by Holy Spirit) ACTUALLY happened rather than believe that these are fables that we can draw moral lessons from. This is the stuff of fundamentalism, ie, a literal belief in your book of worship.

Most civil rights issues are rarely left to a vote by the majority, because the majority will always deny the minority its rights. Desegregation was done by a supreme court decision and so was the ability to engage in inter-racial marriage. I suspect that the same will happen with the right of gays to marry. It cannot and should not be left to the voters to decide. If we had left it up to the voters, then we would still have a segregated racially divided society.

[leaveit2bevo]

Heres an interesting fact think back to the civil rights days 80% of americans would have voted against it but the supreme court took it upon themselves to make the decision for the idiots in america, just like they did in California. Theres an abundance of data that supports education has a lot to due with your view towards homosexuality. If you look at the district map of how California voted on prop 8 you will find that almost all the counties with the highest number of educated people voted no on prop 8, with the exception being orange county.


If you look at the exit polls the biggest factor in determing how people voted on 8 was religion. 84% of those who attend religious service weekly voted yes, and 83% who never attend religious service voted no. 58% w/o a college degree voted yes and 42% voted no.

Religion was the primary motive to vote yes on 8. This is a problem because religion is based on core values that cannot be compromised by the followers. It has been my experience since I started teaching college 13 years ago that a large majority of religious students are dogmatic and rigid in their beliefs. They are beyond reach of rational arguments. There is no point debating the issue of homosexuality or abortion rights with them. Their starting point is faith, faith in a book of worship. Faith cannot be proven or disproven. Faith is beyond the reach of the scientifc method. A majority of Americans believe that the stories in the Bible (Noah's Arch, Parting the Read Sea, Mary getting pregnant by Holy Spirit) ACTUALLY happened rather than believe that these are fables that we can draw moral lessons from. This is the stuff of fundamentalism, ie, a literal belief in your book of worship.

Most civil rights issues are rarely left to a vote by the majority, because the majority will always deny the minority its rights. Desegregation was done by a supreme court decision and so was the ability to engage in inter-racial marriage. I suspect that the same will happen with the right of gays to marry. It cannot and should not be left to the voters to decide. If we had left it up to the voters, then we would still have a segregated racially divided society.


I need to find the graph that shows which religions have the most educated followers and their views on homosexuality they are very closely correlated. For instance Obamas church has a very high number of educated followers and is very tolerant of homosexuality. But I do agree that the supreme court will ultimately decide gay rights.

[toku-one]

even if it gets over turned or voted down, same sex marriage has a LONG way to go, and i dont think california really has as much pull as we all think we do.

first off. i think you are all forgetting the DOMA (defense of marriage act) which was signed into law im 1996 (by clinton for anyone keeping tabs). only two states allow same sex marriages since this law passed, ca is one of 5 states that allows civil unions, twelve states outright ban it, and the rest have some weird amendments banning it/statutory doma's...

now, even in the two states that allow same sex marriages, they are still not recognized by the government, and therefore mean the exact same thing that californias civil union (aka domestic partnership) mean and is equal in every aspect to marriage (as of 2005)

so really, at this point, we are really arguing about a pointless word. gays have the same rights in ca as married people do, just a different word, and even if they were allowed the same word, it is not even close to becoming anything anywhere else or at a government level.

so chill out. womens got rights in 1920, civil rights was in 1968, and hopefully another 50 years (lets just say 2016) gays will get the rights that they deserve too.

i agree with a few pro 8's in here that you opps are doing it all wrong. its democracy, it will get worked out, believe in the system and things will change. but most of the opp prop 8's i know and have seen lately are the most intolerant people since prop 8 passed.

[nijikon5]

even if it gets over turned or voted down, same sex marriage has a LONG way to go, and i dont think california really has as much pull as we all think we do.

first off. i think you are all forgetting the DOMA (defense of marriage act) which was signed into law im 1996 (by clinton for anyone keeping tabs). only two states allow same sex marriages since this law passed, ca is one of 5 states that allows civil unions, twelve states outright ban it, and the rest have some weird amendments banning it/statutory doma's...

now, even in the two states that allow same sex marriages, they are still not recognized by the government, and therefore mean the exact same thing that californias civil union (aka domestic partnership) mean and is equal in every aspect to marriage (as of 2005)

so really, at this point, we are really arguing about a pointless word. gays have the same rights in ca as married people do, just a different word, and even if they were allowed the same word, it is not even close to becoming anything anywhere else or at a government level.

so chill out. womens got rights in 1920, civil rights was in 1968, and hopefully another 50 years (lets just say 2016) gays will get the rights that they deserve too.

i agree with a few pro 8's in here that you opps are doing it all wrong. its democracy, it will get worked out, believe in the system and things will change. but most of the opp prop 8's i know and have seen lately are the most intolerant people since prop 8 passed.


Todd, Alex already explained an important flaw in Civil Unions versus Marriages:

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.

[vial8or]

I'm going to pass prop 666. Overturn religion and all it's retarded followers

Than we shall see true peacefulness

[toku-one]

even if it gets over turned or voted down, same sex marriage has a LONG way to go, and i dont think california really has as much pull as we all think we do.

first off. i think you are all forgetting the DOMA (defense of marriage act) which was signed into law im 1996 (by clinton for anyone keeping tabs). only two states allow same sex marriages since this law passed, ca is one of 5 states that allows civil unions, twelve states outright ban it, and the rest have some weird amendments banning it/statutory doma's...

now, even in the two states that allow same sex marriages, they are still not recognized by the government, and therefore mean the exact same thing that californias civil union (aka domestic partnership) mean and is equal in every aspect to marriage (as of 2005)

so really, at this point, we are really arguing about a pointless word. gays have the same rights in ca as married people do, just a different word, and even if they were allowed the same word, it is not even close to becoming anything anywhere else or at a government level.

so chill out. womens got rights in 1920, civil rights was in 1968, and hopefully another 50 years (lets just say 2016) gays will get the rights that they deserve too.

i agree with a few pro 8's in here that you opps are doing it all wrong. its democracy, it will get worked out, believe in the system and things will change. but most of the opp prop 8's i know and have seen lately are the most intolerant people since prop 8 passed.


Todd, Alex already explained an important flaw in Civil Unions versus Marriages:

Example 1.

Mary moves in with Kary and file for civil union, they live happily together and expect to grow old.

If one of them dies, the relatives of the deceased have the RIGHT to take her belongings.

Example 2.

Even if the relatives are not selfish bastards, the other person in the civil union will have to pay 50% tax to acquire the belongings.


and im telling you that you are wrong and that "California affords domestic partnerships all of the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law (Cal. Fam. Code §297.5)"

which includes:
Community property rights and responsibilities previously only available to married spouses
Rights involving wills, intestate succession, conservatorships and trusts
and
The right to request partner support (alimony) upon dissolution of the partnership (divorce)

[toku-one]

ohh and one more point i forgot...

marriage itself is a thing only recognized by the church (in the united states)
which oddly, a seperation of church and state is one things most americans (at least liberals, dems, and anyone not right wing) is all about

now, civil marriage, secular marriage, and a marriage license, are things done by the government and required to have a legally binding contract (without a marriage license, you arent seen as anything, doesnt mean you arent married in the eyes of the lord, just not in the eyes of lady liberty)

now, if we changed domestic partnership to a term like civil marriage, and left the word marriage alone to be defined as something between a man and a women (since its church rule and should be left out of state) then i think we all could be happier with its equal ground. everyone wins. the church gets what it wants, the gays get what they want, and contractually everyone is equal.

hooray.

[vial8or]

^^
You're gay

[toku-one]

^^
You're gay


if being informed is gay, i agree. i love the cock

[vial8or]

....I said nothing about cock.


Why vote yes on 8 and deprive yourself of rights you might want with your gay lover?

That's sad

[Wedgemeister]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-preaching-about-lolcats.jpg

[toku-one]

....I said nothing about cock.


Why vote yes on 8 and deprive yourself of rights you might want with your gay lover?

That's sad


i dont vote. i find the whole process pointless. matters such as this, and most civil rights through out history, are not passed by popular vote, they are passed by the supreme court. and since california has been a dem state for the last 20 years, and isnt in jeopardy of losing that, i see no point. theres no point to same sex marriage on a state level. as i pointed out earlier, in california, domestic partnership has the exact same rights as marriage (thanks mostly to heterosexuals over the age 62, who also can obtain domestic partnership), once the issues is resolved once again by our state supreme court (and making us the 4th state of 50 to adopt same sex marriage) it still wont make a difference, the issue with marriage is mostly a national issue, that needs to be changed by the US supreme court... and since they can only be chosen by the president, and approved by the senate (who we only have a say in dianne feinstein) i really feel that theres not a whole lot left to accomplish. im also not opposed to gay marriage.

[vial8or]

LMAO.....of all the posts...you took mine seriously to respond to.

Awesome.

[toku-one]

i had already responded to everyone else
and you said cock.

plus i think my responses are in general informative. seems that most people are ill informed about a lot of things on both sides of prop 8

[CRX2EVO]

If you don't vote, you shouldn't even be talking.

[toku-one]

well lets see, since there was a 78% turn out, and over 52% voted against (even though out of the 13.8mil that did vote, only 11.8 voted on prop 8) the 2 million that didnt vote for the prop and the 4 million that didnt vote at all, only means the margin of defeat would have been that much greater. than the half million that it lost by. it would have been closer to the 1.5mil it lost by last time...

so, in hindsight, its actually better for the proposition
but your young, so i accept your view. i find it funny though, cause clearly you either havent been reading anything ive written, or arent comprehending it.
however, being an American that believes in and accepts democracy for what it is, i enjoy my right to sit back and watch. i also enjoy my right to free speech, and unlike most opponents of prop 8, i provide useful unbiased information without the ignorance and name calling...