Methanol, but why water? (Besides safety)

[LiquidLife]

I was under the impression that meth provided all the det suppression and cooling you would want, I'm trying to understand the statement below specifically, from the snow forum.

Q: So the only reason Snow does not recommend 100% methanol is just because of safety?
A: Well safety is a good reason, but at 100% methanol you are basically running a dual fuel engine. There are many benefits to mixing water with methanol besides safety. Injected in the right quantity water increases the detonation resistance of the air fuel charge (or octane rating if you want) and has a steam effect on the power stroke of the engine cycle leading to more torque. (Same principle that Steam engines were designed around)

Okay, so I think I understand that the atomized water suppresses premature detonation, okay fine, but doesn't water suppress detonation entirely across the board?

I believe I also understand that the atomized water being vaporized creating pressure making more torque, but I just don't understand why you would want to suppress the det entirely, while Methanol cools the intake temp and acts as a high octane, but also contains high amounts of energy acting as race gas, while water contains no energy.

Does the steam effect negate the fact that water doesn't contain energy necessary to run a gasoline engine?

Am I understanding all this correctly?

[EVOMANIAC]

Water has a greater cooling effect than Methanol does. Now if you run too much water you will have misfire problems, actually no fire because steam extinguishes fire.
Water has higher antiknock properties than methanol does. When people run meth injection nowadays they run large amounts as use it as a secondary fuel like you said, rather than as a coolant.

[LiquidLife]

Thanks, but that's not the answer I'm looking for.

[oldevodude]

I was under the impression that meth provided all the det suppression and cooling you would want, I'm trying to understand the statement below specifically, from the snow forum.

Q: So the only reason Snow does not recommend 100% methanol is just because of safety?
A: Well safety is a good reason, but at 100% methanol you are basically running a dual fuel engine. There are many benefits to mixing water with methanol besides safety. Injected in the right quantity water increases the detonation resistance of the air fuel charge (or octane rating if you want) and has a steam effect on the power stroke of the engine cycle leading to more torque. (Same principle that Steam engines were designed around)

Okay, so I think I understand that the atomized water suppresses premature detonation, okay fine, but doesn't water suppress detonation entirely across the board? YES

I believe I also understand that the atomized water being vaporized creating pressure making more torque, but I just don't understand why you would want to suppress the det entirely, while Methanol cools the intake temp and acts as a high octane, but also contains high amounts of energy acting as race gas, while water contains no energy.

Does the steam effect negate the fact that water doesn't contain energy necessary to run a gasoline engine? Well it negate no but added benefit yes. (depends on perspective i guess)

Am I understanding all this correctly? Pretty much

[LiquidLife]

You didn't even take your comment out of my quote, hahahaha.... geez man....

[tabio42]

The water suppresses detonation in the same way that injecting extra gasoline does. Except it does it more efficiently because it has a higher latent heat of vaporization. And when I say extra gasoline I mean like anything lower than 14.7:1 AFR or 1.0 Lambda. So yes, water will suppress detonation across the board. Just like running 11:1 vs. 13:1 AFR will.

Methanol burns fast, has relatively low energy (relative to fuels not water) but it burns very cool. Methanol has a stoich mixture of 6:1 AFR (still 1.0 lambda). Meth will give you octane but it requires almost twice as much meth to make the same amount of energy as say race fuel. Methanol can pre-ignitie or autoignite depending on the circumstances. Water obviously cannot ignite (unless you use some brown's gas BS :) )

So inject water and lean out your AFR to remove the excess fuel from the combustion chamber which was just being used for cooling. But it seems to me that the huge timing increases are coming from methanol.

I was only able to add 1-3 degrees of timing (from peak torque to max RPM) with a 10% water to fuel ratio. A relatively small amount of methanol mixed in there yielded me more timing but my AFR's were deceiving (since meth has 6:1 AFR). I think I was running too rich at that point. I'm going to start mixing 10-20% water into my methanol when I reinstall my kit. I'm going to shoot for 12:1 Gasoline AFR BEFORE the water and meth are injected. That way I know I wont be pig rich from the meth.

[LiquidLife]

thanks for ur input, I wish I had more time to figure out some of things u are saying. I'll have to respond later

[christoph562]

Just run 100% you'll be fine O0