View Full Version : Soooooooooooo....... anybody give any thought to running 19's on the track?
fastkevin
09-22-2008, 08:49 AM
I know Michelin makes 'em.. I'm kicking it around because I figure if I go with something slightly more hearty than a full race dot (more like a 140 treadwear rating), I could get a lot more life outta them. 19's just seem to look a lot better on the 10 than 18's. Problem is, obviously you'll get a lot less sidewall, and trashing the wheel lips becomes just that much more easy.
Anybody try it?
kimletrim
09-22-2008, 09:29 AM
On 19s??? No.
1GGEvo
09-23-2008, 08:39 PM
i think you should try it, let us know how it works out for you
Skiracer
09-23-2008, 08:48 PM
Sounds like a very expensive tire choice.
DC_TypeR
09-24-2008, 06:31 PM
haha... wow.. 19" rims at the track = CRAZY
Tire prices = BALLER status.
stick to 18" Rims w/ 275, or 285 tires for the track
leave the 19" rims on for show, and daily use.
just my 02
-Chris
ultraflip
09-24-2008, 06:38 PM
spedyevo02 ran 19's at streets of willow...
Miss Evo8
09-24-2008, 10:30 PM
and one of them fell off :buck2:
Mightygnu
09-28-2008, 04:34 PM
haha... wow.. 19" rims at the track = CRAZY
Tire prices = BALLER status.
stick to 18" Rims w/ 275, or 285 tires for the track
leave the 19" rims on for show, and daily use.
just my 02
-Chris
That pretty much sums it up!
fastkevin
09-28-2008, 05:31 PM
HAH!* You guys assume (making an ASS out of U, and uh..not me :uglystupid2:), and I researched. I actually found a brand new set of 19" track wheels on sale for $800/set. They listed at $550 a piece. The track rubber looked to be about another $50-$100 a tire over 18's, depending on the brand. The downside is the lack of decent "Street" class (140 treadwear rating... Dunlop Star Spec, B-stone Re-01's) tires, and depending on NASA's '09 rules, that's a class I might run.
Somewhere down the line, the tire co's will make more 19's. Just a few years ago, 18's were looked at the same way. I'll prolly end up with 18's with 22mm offset, so they're pushed out and don't look so stupid, but if Mitsu continues with the big wheel-well look, I'm gonna end up puling the trigger. For now I guess, the Porsches can own the 19" race tire market.
Then again...maybe not :-o
EDIT: looks like Tire Rack charges the same for 19" Hoosiers (265) as they do for a heat-cycled set of 18's ($15/tire). Heat cycle them yourself, and it's the same price
t12uevo
10-04-2008, 08:28 AM
good luck if you run the 19's...i'll probably run my AME TM-02's on the track as soon as I get my show rims for next season....but i don't see why you can't run 19's with a 35 to 40 series tire you'll just have to run your suspenision a little higher than the 18's..but who knows the 18's are proven but I like the look of the 19's on my X
JOOTZ
10-04-2008, 08:37 AM
19`s look better on the X, track with the proper set-up may not be a problem
I know Michelin makes 'em.. I'm kicking it around because I figure if I go with something slightly more hearty than a full race dot (more like a 140 treadwear rating), I could get a lot more life outta them. 19's just seem to look a lot better on the 10 than 18's. Problem is, obviously you'll get a lot less sidewall, and trashing the wheel lips becomes just that much more easy.
Anybody try it?
19's = significant increase in unsprung weight, less clearance for suspension and more abuse on suspension components like your wheel bearings, hubs etc.* There are a whole lot of reasons why your car will be slower and poorer handling with them.* You lose a lot of critical suspension travel when go to 19's and will not be able to run as wide of a tire as a result.*
Hitting your bumpstops because of a lack of suspension travel on the track in the middle of a corner ought to be interesting.
Then there's the cost.* True, there is like 20 dollar difference on Hoosier r6's but you are paying almost a 100 more a set to run your car slower on the track.* Many classes don't allow Hoosiers and there is a bigger cost difference.
Mentioning 19's on the evo and track in the same sentence other than novelty and deliberately trying to impair your cars handling is just fantasy.
It's your car so run what you want though...
Before you say its different with the X, physics still apply and I am speaking from experience as I have both:
http://www.mccomsey.net/pics/2-evos.jpg
fastkevin
10-04-2008, 08:38 PM
19's = significant increase in unsprung weight,
I dunno where you got your info from, but it's not true. 19x9.5" RPF1 weighs 19 pounds. A 18x9.5" RPF1 weighs 19 pounds A Pilot Sport Cup 265/18 weighs 24 pounds. A Pilot Sport Cup 265/19 weighs 24 pounds
Your arguement about a 19" wheel putting more stress bla bla etc.. doesn't hold water
Then there's the cost.* True, there is like 20 dollar difference on Hoosier r6's but you are paying almost a 100 more a set to run your car slower on the track.*
Once again..19's aren't slower. You could have a 19" combination that's slower than an 18, but you could also have a 17" combination that's faster than a particular 18.. It only depends on the wheel/tire combo..not the size ( in reference to a 18 vs. 19) You think Porsche would be running 19's on their race cars if they were slower than 18's?
Mentioning 19's on the evo and track in the same sentence other than novelty and deliberately trying to impair your cars handling is just fantasy.
This is a statement based on ignorance. Dunno what else to say.. I researched it pretty thoroughly, because I wanted fact. Not just an internet bashing from people that like to rip on others who don't think like they do.
Before you say its different with the X, physics still apply and I am speaking from experience
What's different with the X? Bigger wheel wells to fit 19's with room to spare? What physics..?* 19" track wheels and tires can weigh the exact same as their twin-brothers in 18" weigh,a nd therefore don't "tax" the suspension anymore than an 18??
If I was to run full-on race rubber, based off the facts I found, I would have ran 19's. I chose 18's because the particular tire I want to try (Dunlop Star Spec) isn't made in a 19, and I'm not sure whether or not the '09 NASA rules will allow me to run 19's in the class I wanna compete in. Rest assured Dunlop and everybody else will be coming out with 19" tires in the Ultra-Performance category in the near future. It wasn't very long ago at all, it was mostly 17's and the 18's were rare.
BTW- all the facts I found were very easy to obtain. Just found 'em on the web
19's = significant increase in unsprung weight,
I dunno where you got your info from, but it's not true. 19x9.5" RPF1 weighs 19 pounds. A 18x9.5" RPF1 weighs 19 pounds A Pilot Sport Cup 265/18 weighs 24 pounds. A Pilot Sport Cup 265/19 weighs 24 pounds
Your arguement about a 19" wheel putting more stress bla bla etc.. doesn't hold water
Then there's the cost.* True, there is like 20 dollar difference on Hoosier r6's but you are paying almost a 100 more a set to run your car slower on the track.*
Once again..19's aren't slower. You could have a 19" combination that's slower than an 18, but you could also have a 17" combination that's faster than a particular 18.. It only depends on the wheel/tire combo..not the size ( in reference to a 18 vs. 19) You think Porsche would be running 19's on their race cars if they were slower than 18's?
Mentioning 19's on the evo and track in the same sentence other than novelty and deliberately trying to impair your cars handling is just fantasy.
This is a statement based on ignorance. Dunno what else to say.. I researched it pretty thoroughly, because I wanted fact. Not just an internet bashing from people that like to rip on others who don't think like they do.
Before you say its different with the X, physics still apply and I am speaking from experience
What's different with the X? Bigger wheel wells to fit 19's with room to spare? What physics..?* 19" track wheels and tires can weigh the exact same as their twin-brothers in 18" weigh,a nd therefore don't "tax" the suspension anymore than an 18??
If I was to run full-on race rubber, based off the facts I found, I would have ran 19's. I chose 18's because the particular tire I want to try (Dunlop Star Spec) isn't made in a 19, and I'm not sure whether or not the '09 NASA rules will allow me to run 19's in the class I wanna compete in. Rest assured Dunlop and everybody else will be coming out with 19" tires in the Ultra-Performance category in the near future. It wasn't very long ago at all, it was mostly 17's and the 18's were rare.
BTW- all the facts I found were very easy to obtain. Just found 'em on the web
Well, first off, run what you want- it is your car.* Just a few points to correct though.
Your just mis informed.* Every wheel worth running is heavier in 19 than 18* bigger= more material and more unsprung weight.* Same goes with tire weights.*
You are just wrong on your Enkei example for instance.* *Looking at the actual Enkei site, the 18 and 19 rpf1's DO NOT weigh the same.* add a pound per wheel + more weight for the tire.* That is with one of the lighter wheels.
http://www.enkei.com/RacingSeriesSpecs/RPF1.html
19" wheel-* * *3799956542SP 9.5 42 5 x 114.3 73 19.6 lbs
18" wheel-* * *3798956515SBC 9.5 15 5 x 114.3 73 18.6 lbs
It is a more dramatic difference with other wheels.
If you go to a more reasonable 10.5" width with a nice forged wheel like the volk ce28's, there is a big difference.
19 x 10.5 +12, +22 5 114.3 ~20.50 LBS
18 x 10.5 +18 5 114.3 ~16.53 LBS
If you go to actual manufacture sites, there is a 2-4 pound difference PER wheel for most popular wheels in going from 18x10.5 to 19x10.5, so you are just flat wrong.* Add a corresponding increase in tire weight and it is 4-8 pounds difference PER wheel.
Looking at R6 hoosiers for instance, there is a pound of difference on the 18 vs 19 295's:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Hoosier&model=R6
You can't even get toyo RA-1's in 19's.* With regard to your Pilot Sportcups, I have run them on the evo and they suck.* They are made for 2500 lb porsche cup cars not 1000 pound heavier evo X's, so knock yourself out spinning out on the track while they squirrel around.*
No one says you can't run 19's.* Just understand that a heavier and larger tire/wheel combination which is clearly the case, based upon actual manufacturer website info, is going to be slower.* *Basic physics here.* *add 5 pounds more to each wheel if your generous + an extra 50 bucks a tire everytime you have to replace one and it gets to be a drag.
I ran 17x 9.5's and it was a drag to go to 18x 9.5's and pay a lot more for the tire.* The wheels are clearly heavier so don't kid yourself.* The reason I did it was to run the stoptech big brake kit.* That is a good reason to go from 17 to 18 but I am not aware of any brake kits for the X that require 19's.* The X's come with bigger brakes anyway.
Please feel free to run what you want.* Just keep the following in mind:
19's DO weigh 1-5 pounds more than 18's of* the same width
19's COST significantly more than 18's for the same width
19's REDUCE your suspension travel so you can't handle as well
19" rims bend easier and cost more
Finally, 19's offer no advantage from a performance perspective.
Am i correct to assume that when the weight is further away from the center, the weight, in a leverage standpoint, is higher. An 18inch wheel with x weight would take less force to rotate than a 19inch wheel with x weight.
For example a figure skater rotates faster when the mass is closer to the axis of rotation. They can speed up or slow down their rotation by shifting limbs closer or farther from their bodies. (yea i watch too much discovery channel... damn their examples!!)
fastkevin
10-05-2008, 02:20 AM
This is ridiculous. I've been sucked into an internet pissing match. I get it.. You don't like 19's. You dont have to. That doesn't mean you need to try to dissuade someone else from doing it just because you don't like it.
A 19 doesn't however, add an additional "5-10 pounds" of weight . They don't have to be any heavier than 18's and can actually be lighter in the same width. You can argue all you want.. You cannot however, take away the facts. I'll post some here. The sizes I'm posting are relevant in that they're the sizes I run. That's what relevant to me, and since you made comments about me purposely(sorry.. "deliberately") making my car handle badly for the sake of being different, it's pertinent.
Mentioning 19's on the evo and track in the same sentence other than novelty and deliberately trying to impair your cars handling is just fantasy.
It's your car so run what you want though...
From Edge Racing:www.edgeracing.com (http://www.edgeracing.com)
Size: 18x9.5
PCD: 5x114.3
ET: 55
Weight: 19lbs
Size: 19x9.5
PCD: 5x114.3
ET: 22
Weight: 19lbs ( you missed a good deal btw people.. $396 ea~ Hyper Black. They're all sold out now)
From Tire Rack:www.tirerack.com (http://www.tirerack.com)
265/35ZR18
Load Index 93 = 1433lbs (650kg) per tire
Speed Rating “(Y)” = 186+mph (300kph) (93Y)* SL* *Treadwear: 80
Traction: AA
Temperature: A80 AA A
1433 lbs.
51 psi
6/32"
24 lbs.
9-10.5"
9.5"
10.9"
NA
25.2"
831
Co
265/35ZR19
Load Index 98 = 1653lbs (750kg) per tire
Speed Rating “(Y)” = 186+mph (300kph) (98Y)* XL Sport Cup+ - BMW* *Treadwear: 80
Traction: AA
Temperature: A80 AA A
1653 lbs.
50 psi
6/32"
24 lbs.
9-10.5"
9.5"
10.7"
NA
26.3"
790
Country of Origin "FR" = FRANCEFR* untry of Origin "FR" = FRANCEFR*
You can even step down on profile with the 19, and ave an extra pound:
265/30ZR19
Load Index 89 = 1279lbs (580kg) per tire
Speed Rating “(Y)” = 186+mph (300kph) (89Y)* SL* *Treadwear: 80
Traction: AA
Temperature: A80 AA A
1279 lbs.
51 psi
6/32"
23 lbs.
9-10"
9.5"
10.7"
NA
25.3"
822
Country of Origin "FR" = FRANCEFR
I'm confident in these sources of info, since they deal with these products on a daily basis.* I could e-mail a Michelin and/or Pirelli tire engineer and probably receive info on why 19's actually work better than 18's on the track, but since I've already made a decision on which size wheel I'm going with, I don't need to.
Instead of recieving anything beneficial from this thread, I've been sucked into arguing against un-truths. Not what I intended on getting out of it, but this is the internet... I should of know better.
I am puzzled why you want to ask a question on a forum when you clearly are not open to information and have made up your mind beforehand.*
FYI, one of the great benefits of the X is you can run 305's on it and possibly 315's with a little work.* 265's are tiny and a lot of folks run 275's and even 285x30x18's on older evo VIII's and IX's because there is a significant advantage in traction.
If your going for traction and care about track times, run larger than 265.* Failing to do so would give up one of the biggest advantages of owning a X.* *On the other hand, you would prove my point by running a reasonable size tire and width.* Basic rule of thumb is you add 1-2 pounds just in rim weight per inch.* Similar with most tires.* You can tweak the numbers by choosing smaller width rims and tire sizes than optimum to skew things but the rule generally is pretty much on.
One last thing, when you go to larger rim: gear ratios.
Whenever larger-than-stock tires are installed on a vehicle, it will have a direct effect on performance.* It has to do with the effective gear ratio. Mitsubishi geared the tranny and stock tire combination to provide a good balance between acceleration and fuel economy. When taller tires are installed on your car but the gear ratios stay the same; the effective gear ratio is reduced.* This means the engine is forced to operate a little below its power band, and performance and fuel economy can suffer as a result.* *This isn't as dramatic as folks see with trucks, where there is bigger change in tire sizes, but it still applies.* Optimally, going bigger size, you would want to change your powerband by say adding a turbo or changing your gear ratio on your final drive possibly.
* *
It sounds though, like you mostly care about the look so I think that in that case, you should be happy with your choice.*
In any case, good luck with your car.* *No need for the hostility.* I was just trying to share some hard earned info.
kimletrim
10-05-2008, 09:47 AM
^^^+1
And if given the choice between a 17 inch rim and a 19 inch rim of the same model and brand, I would take the 17 inch because it will hold up better at the track. But if maximum tire size or width dictates how the car will perform at the track, then a size up in rim choice would be the next logical step. But I still wouldn't run 19s at the track. Most of the time, 19s are just a fashion statement.
GEOEVOX
11-13-2008, 02:27 AM
ILL STICK TO THE 18'S :D 19'S WOULD BE TO HEAVY AND COSTLY WHEN IT COMES TO REPLACING THE TIRES.
neveronlineten
03-01-2009, 06:04 PM
LOL I wish I could fit 17's on my X without having to downsize the Brakes.
I don't think running 19's is the end of the world and if you were running in modified classes it would matter even less because you could easily make power to offset any disadvantage you gained. With that said if you are running in a class that doesn't allow many mods, then I would stick to the lightest forged 18inch wheel to keep your advantages as high as possible ;) .
And I know you posted numbers from a website, but I don't trust edge racing saying two of the exact same wheels in a different size weigh exactly the same??? That doesn't even make sense unless the 19 is somehow using less material (which would make it even worse for the track :( )
monkeywinky
05-04-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm confident in these sources of info, since they deal with these products on a daily basis.* I could e-mail a Michelin and/or Pirelli tire engineer and probably receive info on why 19's actually work better than 18's on the track, but since I've already made a decision on which size wheel I'm going with, I don't need to.
This intrigues me, could you follow through and provide us with that information? I think it would present as a good source for the alternative theory you suggest. Thanks.
Being an engineer myself it is quite confusing how a 19 inch rim would weigh the same as an 18 inch rim. unless the 18 was with some really low offset and the 19 had a really high offset, this could result in a proportional difference in the material needed for the face of the wheel ( i think). correct me if i'm wrong but with a low offset the face would concave and require more material, and a high offset would have a relatively flat face and use a little less material. in this way i can see how the two rims would weigh the same...sorry if that was confusing but i'm just trying to rationalize it for myself as well
littlejap33
05-05-2009, 04:33 PM
19s are pretty big!
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