Ralliart SB review

[Siyah]

Everybody out there who is looking for a DD car in the 25k-30k range, here is my quick review of the Ralliart Sportback (SB) I bought recently... (thx to SAM at SouthcoastÂ* 8)).

Let me start with this , HP should never be the reason to buy something or the decision breaker.
By the way I will of course keep my Evo 8Â* (the track toy and medicine for boring days).

Before buying the the Ralliart SB, I checked out the WRX Hatch, Golf GTI and the Mazdaspeed 3. These three plus the Ralliart were on my list.Â* On paper the Ralliart did not look so good, down on HP, down on trunk space and the purchase price was high. I test drove all and in the end the Ralliart impressed me the most, nothing wrong with the other cars, they all have strengths and if you believe magazines one of those three should have been in my driveway right now anyway.Â* But it all came down to the feel of the car. You might think I am biased because I have a EVO 8 but I can assure you, I am not, simply because my Evo 8 is a pain in the a$$ to drive DD (it is set up for track duty) and I wanted a nice/fun daily driver with some features and utility.

Handling: The car handles great, takes corner very well (much better than the WRX) and transitions from right to left and left to right are very composed. The steering is good but not perfect (the EVO 8 & 9 steering is superior; they are the best I think out there anyway).

Brakes: The brakes are good for DD and some occasional fun, but if you want to track your car you need to upgrade them.

Speed:Â* Yes, it is fast too…it doesn’t reach high speeds as fast as a WRX or a Mazdaspeed 3 but it is not far behind. The Golf was nice,Â* clean and well executed but it drives like a Jetta or a Passat with a sport package, it just feels boring don’t know what it is but it is missing something …

Transmission: The best thing about the Ralliart, and the reason I believe it is expensive. The SST is a gem of engineering (it makes the old E46 SMG M3 feel like a cheap kitchen appliance). When you drive fast into a corner, place the car, hit the brakes, downshift and power out again it is almost perfect…once you have figured out the right moment for the downshift you will always be in the right rpm range without any loss of momentum…unless you are a master of heel-toe shifting you can not match that.
The normal and sport mode when shifted manually are perfect for spirited fun drives, be it on a track or in the canyons. The up shifts are seamless the downshifts are perfect (rev-matching is beautiful, sorry for mentioning this again, but the SST is really great).

DD: Being able to put the shifter into just ‘D’ mode (like an automatic) will make daily commuting easy without getting a tired left leg when you get home.

Seating/Trunk: The rear seats are spacious and the trunk is useful, once those back-seats are down too, you can carry all your weekend gear to the track (inc. tires) if you plan on tracking the car. The Recaro seats are better than the once I have in my Evo 8Â* and the high tech features, the sound system, the Bluetooth and HIDs work perfect.

In the end, the WRX didn’t feel right, the Golf GTI was boring. The Mazdaspeed 3 drives very well and I was very close getting it but the Ralliart just felt a tick better and the SST basically sold it for me.

Well, as you can see my focus is the ‘feel-factor’, others might feel different and looks are something which should not be discussed anyway (what seems beautiful to you might look ugly to me).

The Ralliart did it for meÂ* Â*…. Be safe out there
Siyah
PS: If you happen to be a Evo X driver with a SST … you lucky bastardsÂ* O0

[Sam Smash]

I love it!!

[Mike W]

With just a few basic mods these make ~250-260 whp dynoing on par with stock EVO X GSRs. Then it is really fun.

Mike W

[ecko]

good review

[Looney Tuning]

I know this is an Â*Evo board, but the WRX hatch is a much better bang for the buck than the Ralliart. More power out of the box, better handling (according to objective numbers), better interior (except for the Recaros), more room, and better gas mileage.

Drive the SST hard and see what happens to it. On the track the SST almost always goes into limp mode after 15-20 min track session.

The WRX has the same engine, same turbo, same IC (maybe) as the STi. Tune it and you have the same power as an STi. All you need is a tune.

Every magazine that tested the WRX and the Ralliart, picked the former over the latter.

I love Evos, but the Ralliart does not even come close to the WRX when compared.

[Timujin]

I drove one of the 2 tuned Ralliarts that South Coast offered up a few months ago and the damn car goes and goes. It's a woosh of acceleration that doesn't stop until you take your foot off the gas.

[Mike W]

I have no idea what factory HP specs are between the RA and WRX. But they dyno out pretty close stock. Here is a stock 09 WRX dyno vs. a stock 09 RalliArt. This RalliArt was probably the strongest stock car I have dynoed out of maybe 7 cars.

http://roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/dynos/ra-vs-world/ra-vs-wrx-01.jpg


Here is the same WRX vs. a more average RalliArt


http://roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/dynos/ra-vs-world/ra-vs-wrx-02.jpg


RalliArt spools quicker and drops off more with a smaller turbo:


http://roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/dynos/ra-vs-world/ra-vs-wrx-02-boost.jpg


RalliArt with $1300 retail mods (used EVO X I/C, Axle Back exhaust, toon, labor) vs. stock WRX


http://roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/dynos/ra-vs-world/ratuned-wrxstock.jpg


Same RalliArt vs. a stock EVO X GSR


http://roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/dynos/ra-vs-world/ratuned-gsrstock.jpg


Best to compare actual dynos and actual selling prices. Subaru does not have SCM to smash deals!


Mike W

[C-Spec Tuning]

no one give a rat ass about WRX, if the Ralliart was cheaper i wouldn't mind getting one. ;)

[Mike W]

The STi wagon thingy is pretty sexy looking. I saw one that Rigo was wrenching on at SCM and I had to stop and take a second look. Makes me want to see a wide body Sportback. I like how the Sportback is actually functional in day to day life with real space.

Mike W

[Looney Tuning]

These numbers are poor compared to what a tuned WRX would put down. The last 07 WRX I tuned (2.5 liter engine, VF43 turbo, intake, TBE w/cat, STI TMIC) put those numbers that Mike posted to shame. And this is with the VF43 07 STi turbo. The 09 VF52 is slightly better. So this 07 WRX that I tuned, has a similar turbo to an 09, similar TMIC and same 2.5 liter engine. It is basically an 09 WRX with a catted TBE and an intake. Take a look:

http://www.sr20deracing.com/looneytuning/Subaru/Ugly/dyno_b4_after2.gif

The ralliart is not even within the same ballpark.

Further, the dyno numbers do not take into account the weight difference between the two cars. The Ralliart outweighs the WRX wagon by 397 lbs. That is a hell of a lot of weight to lug around.

Using objective data, the WRX has more power-to-weight ratio, is cheaper, weighs less, roomier, has a manual that does not go into limp mode under hard use, Has quicker/faster acceleration according to all the rags. It is an STi in the making.

[Timujin]

Wow is this a pee pee match? Eats popcorn...

WORKS didn't have a problem with their RA on the track and the engine died before the tranny which was encourageing IMHO. Had they placed a Ralliart radiator cap on the radiator maybe the RA engine would have survived. Who knows...

[jamesinger]

I would put money on
Tuned RA > tuned WRX.
And I would imagine a tuned RA would be better moving in on 09 STi territory before it got to GSR status.

[Looney Tuning]

I would put money on
Tuned RA > tuned WRX.
And I would imagine a tuned RA would be better moving in on 09 STi territory before it got to GSR status.


That does not add up. How can it be faster/quicker when the Ralliart sportback weighs 400 lbs more than the WRX wagon and puts less power.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1896737&highlight=09+WRX

The car in this link is tuned to 17.5 psi with a TBE and a drop-in. It put 305 ft-lb and 294 hp on 92 octane gas on a MUSTANG dyno. A Mustang reads lower than the ever present dynojet. My DLL road dyno read like a dynojet. So this made 329 hp and 341 ft-lb on a dynojet. I hate comparing dynos, but no way in hell would a ralliart make that much power with such limited mods on a dynojet. NO WAY.

Here is another one tuned locally on a dynapack. 355 ft-lb; 298 hp

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1811093&highlight=09+WRX

Here is another tuned locally on a dynomite. TBE, intake, 91 octane. 310 ft-lb; 290 hp

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1644734&highlight=09+WRX

I have yet to see a Ralliart put such numbers on a stock turbo with TBE and intake.

[Mike W]

I cant see a RalliArt making more than 270 whp on 91 octane and a stock turbo. The poor little thing is maxed out at that hp.

Still, it is cool my '64 VW sounds like an old '64 VW. I just cant deal with a new car sounding like a '64 VW. It's not my scene man.

Mike W

[Timujin]

I cant see a RalliArt making more than 270 whp on 91 octane and a stock turbo. The poor little thing is maxed out at that hp.

Still, it is cool my '64 VW sounds like an old '64 VW. I just cant deal with a new car sounding like a '64 VW. It's not my scene man.

Mike W


I was thinking the samething. I remember when I would hit a dip and rip my quiet packs off.

[Looney Tuning]

I do not mind the flat four sound. Just stay away from the loud exhaust. The WRX gains more from the removing the restrictive DP than from a free flowing exhaust.

Mike, what is the name of the turbo that the Ralliart has?

[Gear Grinder]

but the Ralliart does not even come close to the WRX when compared.
You know Naji I've owned both, and I would pick the RA over the WRX every time. Until you get in the drivers seat, and feel how perfectly the smaller turbo, and SST transmission work together, fast spool up, perfect lightning quick, no lift, gear changes, you will never understand.


BTW- great review.

[Timujin]

Timujin can I have some popcorn!?


Passes popcorn bucket down to DRJ1014...

[Looney Tuning]

but the Ralliart does not even come close to the WRX when compared.
You know Naji I've owned both, and I would pick the RA over the WRX every time. Until you get in the drivers seat, and feel how perfectly the smaller turbo, and SST transmission work together, fast spool up, perfect lightning quick, no lift, gear changes, you will never understand.


BTW- great review.


First, you have not owned an 09 WRX. You have owned a Forester and an older model WRX. Did your WRX have the 2.5 liter turbo? Did it have the VF series turbo?

Your talking about how the car FEELS and I am talking about actual numbers. Feel is one thing, numbers are another. The most improtant thing is which car puts better numbers on the track, on the drag strip, in the slalom, in the figure eight, on the skidpad, braking from 80 to zero. EVERY review that I read, the 09 WRX beats the Ralliart in these categories. And we are talking about the Ralliart sedan. The Sportback is even porkier than the Sedan. Just wait until the Sportback is compared to the WRX Wagon which is even lighter than WRX Sedan. The WRX wagon will destroy the Ralliart Sportback. We are talking 400 lbs heavier than the WRX. Even if the power was the same between them, the 400 lbs are hard to overcome. Driving the Ralliart is like driving a WRX with a 400 lb lineman in the passanger seat. Weight is the enemy of performance. Just ask Colin Chapman :)

Going by the numbers, the Ralliart Sportback is an also ran to the WRX Wagon.

[ecko]

You're right, feel is one thing, numbers are another.

Feel is more important. You can't feel numbers. You can only post them on the interweb and try to make one sound better than the other.

[Looney Tuning]

You're right, feel is one thing, numbers are another.

Feel is more important. You can't feel numbers. You can only post them on the interweb and try to make one sound better than the other.


You CAN feel numbers. You can feel acceleration. You cannot feel speed, however. I am not trying to make them sound better. THEY ARE better.

The FACT is the WRX hatch is lighter than the RA sportback by 400 lbs, has more hp and torque, is quicker/faster in 0-60 and the 1/4 mile, in the figure 8, slalom, braking. In ALL performance categories the 09+ WRX is faster than the 09+ Ralliart. The fact that the Ralliart is porkier should end this debate in its tracks.

So your racing a guy at the stoplight (you should not, but for argument's sake) in your stock RA and he beats you in his WRX. You pull over to talk. What are you going to say? "But my car FEELS better..." Come on.

[Gear Grinder]

First, you have not owned an 09 WRX. You have owned a Forester and an older model WRX. Did your WRX have the 2.5 liter turbo? Did it have the VF series turbo?

06 wrx limited. exactly the same as Uglys. His is an 07, but there is no difference.

[Gear Grinder]

No one would believe a stupid Nissan SE-R would keep up with a bunch of Evos at the track, but it did. Get off your high horse.

[danEvoIX562]

thanks for taking my spacers GG

[sneakypete]

Hey Siyah, great review and happy to hear positive things about your 'DAILY DRIVER'.

I'm going on the same path as you, just with the X as a DD and keep my IX for the days I choose to push the limits; not that the X does not do that Â*:coolsmiley:


Mike, good stuff with the comparison, the dyno does not lie. Â*All the best to you and RRE.

[Looney Tuning]

No one would believe a stupid Nissan SE-R would keep up with a bunch of Evos at the track, but it did. Get off your high horse.


Oh...Danny...Don't get so angry...I still love you (no homo) :)

[Looney Tuning]

First, you have not owned an 09 WRX. You have owned a Forester and an older model WRX. Did your WRX have the 2.5 liter turbo? Did it have the VF series turbo?

06 wrx limited. exactly the same as Uglys. His is an 07, but there is no difference.


Did you upgrade the turbo on your 06 from the TD04 to the VF series?

[Gear Grinder]

No one would believe a stupid Nissan SE-R would keep up with a bunch of Evos at the track, but it did. Get off your high horse.


Oh...Danny...Don't get so angry...I still love you (no homo) :)
Nope, that's it. I'm going to get HB Speed to tune my car :-P

[MinusPrevious]

WTH is going on down here?Â* Some kinda fight? =)........How about that Arizona & Nebraska game WOW.

Â* Happy New Years all......See all of you at our 2010 caravan to Cars & Coffee.....Good debate guys

[Looney Tuning]

No one would believe a stupid Nissan SE-R would keep up with a bunch of Evos at the track, but it did. Get off your high horse.


Oh...Danny...Don't get so angry...I still love you (no homo) :)
Nope, that's it. I'm going to get HB Speed to tune my car :-P

LOL...Damn...Did I piss you off that much :D

[rl22]

STY/WRX? :uglystupid2:

[Looney Tuning]

STY/WRX? :uglystupid2:


I will take the Evo over the STI anytime of the day, but the Ralliart over the WRX is pretty hard to swallow.

[ARMORED SNAKE]

No one would believe a stupid Nissan SE-R would keep up with a bunch of Evos at the track, but it did. Get off your high horse.
Why not? I use to punk dumb asses in Evo's with my SE-R pretty often before I got
my IX.

I also had a field day with my SRT-4 vs. Evo's... I know how much you like the SRT-4's Danny! =]

[Gear Grinder]

STY/WRX? :uglystupid2:


I will take the Evo over the STI anytime of the day, but the Ralliart over the WRX is pretty hard to swallow.
I know for a fact that you have never driven one, so end of discussion.

[rl22]

i sure hope nobody lost sleep over this comparesent :coolsmiley:

[Looney Tuning]

STY/WRX? :uglystupid2:


I will take the Evo over the STI anytime of the day, but the Ralliart over the WRX is pretty hard to swallow.
I know for a fact that you have never driven one, so end of discussion.


As I said, your going by feel and I am going by numbers.

By the numbers the WRX is the better car. It is quicker/faster to 60 and in the 1/4 mile, in the slalom, in the skidpad, in the figure 8. It is cheaper. It is 400 lbs lighter. This last one is VERY important to me. It has a tranny that will not go into limp mode when hammered on the track.

Finally, It has better potential. You can mod/tune the car and put more than 300 whp/wtq on the stock VF52 turbo. You cannot do that in a Ralliart on the stock turbo.

I bought both of my Evos without test driving them. I knew they were better cars than the STi. I bought the S2000 and did NOT want a test drive, but the sales person insisted. The test drive told me nothing about the car. I knew I wanted one. I knew it was a great car. I knew the specs inside and out. I read countless reviews about how great the car is.

IMO the WRX wagon is a better car than the Ralliart.

[1WkdEvo]

With all due respect it sounds as if you are saying that the OP doesn't know how he feels. Honestly, this isnt and never was an objective conversation about the superiority of either product, but rather a review of the vehicle he purchased, the reasons (Subjective and Objective both) he bought it, and his experience.

If he started a thread asking people which he should buy, then all of your data based arguments would be relevant, but he didn't, so they aren't.

He got the tranny he wanted for the application he wanted surrounded by the sheet metal he preferred. You mention limp mode, but he was clear that was not a factor since he has a fullblown track car for such a task.

My bang for the buck preference would also be the WRX, but if people only used this criteria to purchase vehicles, there wouldn't be hundreds of models for sale and all of them actually being purchased

Your data is great as always, but as usual you got so caught up in being right that you totally missed the point

[1WkdEvo]

Congrats to the OP on getting the DD you wanted at a great Smash/SCM price

[yobless]

Ding ding ding Sean FTW...

[Siyah]

Ok everybody.... thank you very much for all responses. Â*They are all valid and everybody had some good points...

Those who know me, know that I have driven many cars, continue to drive many different cars and have owned a few (including a WRX in the past Â*:-P )

Believe me, I don't buy a car based on a simple test drive.... The Ralliart just works for me the best as a DD.

Happy New Year to all, wish you all the best Â*O0

Siyah

PS: Best bang for the buck new or used (this is only my opinion Â*8) Â*... Â*get a used E36 M3; They are cheap, rock solid, fast, handle great, big potential and even at 100k+ miles will still drive great.

[Looney Tuning]

The OP did say that the RA handles better than the WRX, and that is flat out wrong. That is the complete opposite of everyone that has tested both cars had to say.

Unless he has a different meaning for the word handling, handling can be measured through the slalom, the skidpad and on an autox. In every one of these measures of handling the RA falls behind the WRX. Maybe he can tell us what he means by handling? But according to widely accepted test measures the RA fails in comparison to the WRX.

Here it lands in 4th place in the autox
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/a_time_for_turbos

Here it is 2nd to the WRX
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza-wrx/2009/comparison-test-2009-mitsubishi-lancer-ralliart-vs-2009-subaru-impreza-wrx.html

In the 2nd link the driver tried to torque launch the RA (hold the brake and press the gas and lift off the brake) and after a number of tries the car went into limp mode. A lot of people use this method to get a good launch out of any automatic and the tranny runs fine. Hell, I have done it 11 times in a row in my Tundra with no problem.

Just because we are Evo enthusiasts does not mean that we have to be blind to the reality that the RA missed its WRX target. If it was the 2008 WRX we were tlaking about, then the RA is the better car, but the 2009 is a different car, a better car. I hope Mitsu improves the RA the next time around.

[FUEL]

Ok everybody.... thank you very much for all responses. Â*They are all valid and everybody had some good points...

Those who know me, know that I have driven many cars, continue to drive many different cars and have owned a few (including a WRX in the past Â*:-P )

Believe me, I don't buy a car based on a simple test drive.... The Ralliart just works for me the best as a DD.

Happy New Year to all, wish you all the best Â*O0

Siyah

PS: Best bang for the buck new or used (this is only my opinion Â*8) Â*... Â*get a used E36 M3; They are cheap, rock solid, fast, handle great, big potential and even at 100k+ miles will still drive great.


M3s are tempting and tasty until something breaks! then it's expensive as hell to fix! :(

[Tuqwik4u]

I own an intake,exhaust,tune, 09 Rotor glow RA Sedan and would love to put it to the test against an actual owner of a new Wrx. Well see what happens ; )

[Looney Tuning]

I own an intake,exhaust,tune, 09 Rotor glow RA Sedan and would love to put it to the test against an actual owner of a new Wrx. Well see what happens ; )


I can arrange that. Can you show up to the Long Beach meet? Do you know where that is?

[Gear Grinder]

Yo, we do not condone nor allow street racing at, or near the long beach meet.

[Tuqwik4u]

When is the meet? Whats the mods on the Subie?

[stormbird]

Just testdrove a RA sportback on Friday. Mostly to try out the SST tranny. The car really impressed me though. Doesn't handle like the EVO GSR I test-drove but its quite good. All it needs is better tires and I think that is coming in the 2011 model year along with wider fenders ala WRX. Definitely worth a look given how easy it is to make EVO power and the 0% financing mitsu is doing. Very impressed with the SST tranny too.