BBK turbo, do I really need all the aftermarket parts?

[autotaku]

Hello. I am planning to put some numbers down in my IX in the future.Â* I am currently running stock besides a FMIC and clutch and replacement drop in filter lol. Overall I plan to run a full BBK setup but I am concern what steps to take first.Â* Â*

0.Would I need to replace any gaskets or seals when I am changing out parts.Â* I got about 34k on the motor and body.Â* Looking for some advice and tips thanks a bunch x]Â* Â*

1.Â* My question is has anyone have any problems with camshafts down the line with their build? I see a lot of people pick Kelford or GSC.Â* has anyone had any problems with those 2?Â* What about Cosworth camshafts?Â* I ask about cosworth camshafts because I don't see many people installing them so ya. plus I want some lol

2. Saying i get some new parts in, where could I get them installed and tuned.Â* I live in Anaheim area so I am concerned about the distance somewhat. (new to the area lol)Â* I wouldn't mind going far if i knew my evo was in good hands.Â*

3. Would you say it's okay to install many aftermarket parts, say full exhaust, port and coat exhaust manifold, new fuel pump and then get it tuned after you get the bbk turbo installed with new internals like cams camshaft port polish etc.

my plan is for 400WHP on pump gas. I did some research already but what concerns me is what people have been using for a setup and what steps people did first before getting the new bbk turbo installed. Overall I am just worried I mess something up so I taking them baby steps x]

[1WkdEvo]

1. Camshafts - If you get any of the new grinds you will be fine. (Cosworth, Kelford, or GSC) I have run both Cosworth and Kelford and they both work fine. My IX currently has the Kelford 280/272 setup
2. There are a lot of places to go, but my preference is Road race Engineering in Sante Fe Springs. I drive from Hemet to go there if that gives you any idea how valuable I find their service/quality/price
3. You can get all of those items installed before tuning, but I would do the cams at the same shop as the tune and have them tune it right after install. Also, have them do the injectors at the same time.

Before you install the BBK, you will want to get an install kit with new gaskets, washers, etc. Forced performance has a nice kit for this

Having run that setup and achieving the pump gas numbers you are hoping for, I would recommend getting all of the parts first and then installing them all at the same time. If you can do it yourself, do so, but all on the same weekend. Installing a BBK, then later adding a ported exhaust manifold is just a waste of time and effort in my experience, but its certianly up to you

[autotaku]

1. Camshafts - If you get any of the new grinds you will be fine. (Cosworth, Kelford, or GSC) I have run both Cosworth and Kelford and they both work fine. My IX currently has the Kelford 280/272 setup
2. There are a lot of places to go, but my preference is Road race Engineering in Sante Fe Springs. I drive from Hemet to go there if that gives you any idea how valuable I find their service/quality/price
3. You can get all of those items installed before tuning, but I would do the cams at the same shop as the tune and have them tune it right after install. Also, have them do the injectors at the same time.

Before you install the BBK, you will want to get an install kit with new gaskets, washers, etc. Forced performance has a nice kit for this

Having run that setup and achieving the pump gas numbers you are hoping for, I would recommend getting all of the parts first and then installing them all at the same time. If you can do it yourself, do so, but all on the same weekend. Installing a BBK, then later adding a ported exhaust manifold is just a waste of time and effort in my experience, but its certianly up to you


Thanks for the info it is valuable in my data lol. The cams you use now. It has the low idle grumble? I see a lot on the vids etc. I was curious how does it react when driving. I read about having bigger cams which have low RPM performance at times... but with an aftermarket setup like a BBK, etc. would response be quick or about the same with having the cams changed out?

[1WkdEvo]

I have changed from 280/272 to 272/272 and there was little to no spool change. From a stock setup to 272 or higher then spool loss will occur to some slight degree but on a IX it will be significantly offset by power up top to the point where even the most spool addicted person would consider it a valuable and worthwile mod.

As for low end performance on a daily basis, it can impact the driveability of the car at low RPM, especially when running the AC, but most tuners can resolve this nowadays quite easily

[autotaku]

I see. Thank you for the information. If planning to run the desired numbers of 400WHP stock injectors must be changed out correct.. and the higher the pressure in the engine due to more airflow with aftermarket parts would cause Knock to the engine. Best way to get rid of knock would be a tune? Would i require an aftermarket ECU or ecu flash etc. to log the maps to have a longer lasting engine?

I don't plant to beat the ball bearings off my ride anyways, just on track days and autox lol. I baby it. x]

[1WkdEvo]

No piggyback, just an ecuflash on your stock ecu and yes you will need one to control knock. Yes, you will need upgraded injectors.

[autotaku]

Woo thanks if you could give points I would give you 9 and 10 just because you own a 9 and a 10. that helps a lot lol. Would you recommend adjustable cams with a camshaft too? What do you recommend? Also port polishing the internal would produce far greater numbers if I didn't correct. Is it there a way to do it yourself or would it be better to let a shop do it.. I ask this because I am saving money for the right upgrades, I wouldn't want to waste it on something silly.

[RALLInspired]

Woo thanks if you could give points I would give you 9 and 10 just because you own a 9 and a 10.Â* that helps a lot lol.Â* Would you recommend adjustable cams with a camshaft too?Â* What do you recommend?Â* Also port polishing the internal would produce far greater numbers if I didn't correct.Â* Is it there a way to do it yourself or would it be better to let a shop do it.. I ask this because I am saving money for the right upgrades, I wouldn't want to waste it on something silly.


you will not need adjustable cam gears since this is a IX. it has mivec.Â* there are really no big upsides to adding a single exhaust cam gear that would be worth the price.

theres is a very basic formula for the parts you need for a BBK (or really any turbo) to put it as close to its full potential within reason:

injectors minimum RC1000cc/RC1200cc (FIC 1250s if you plan on running e85)
GM 3 port BCS for ECU boost control (or tuner preferenceÂ* :idiot2:)
intake(AEM #1, followed by anything with a heat shield, its a balance between airflow and intake air temps)
ported exhaust manifold and hotside (not needed but flow efficiency = more power)
o2 housing (invidia, or works, anything true 3 inch again not needed but ^^)
head studs ( as a margin of safety when holding higher boost at/by redline)
cams not needed by they make power of courseÂ* :uglystupid2:(cossie 272s, kelfords)
springs/retainers (recommended for prolonged higher RPM runs with aftermarket cams)
LICP (Nisei, ETS, AMS)
intercooler (anything garrett core, nisei, ETS 3.5)
DP, TP, cat-back (3 inch)
fuel pump (single walbro should be good to about 500whp depending on dyno with e85)

if you have the cash a ported TB and intake mani are a plus

and a tune of course...

its that same basic build with every single stock framed turbo. its not original by any means and its literally a list of mods that can be copy/pasted but they work and are proven. beyond a certain HP you would need to worry about building the bottom end but most are happy before it even needs to go that far. O0

[BOSSEVOIX]

400whp is not going to happen on pump without meth. porting parts is not a must to obtain that amount of power.

[Residue]

400whp is not going to happen on pump without meth. porting parts is not a must to obtain that amount of power.

I beg to differ; 400whp on a BBK on 91 can happen...on a low reading dyno...look at my car: http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-tuning-results/468983-bbk-full-sd-91-tephra-v7.html

But anyhow, you need just about any supporting mod you can get your hands on to reach 400 on 91

[BOSSEVOIX]

400whp is not going to happen on pump without meth. porting parts is not a must to obtain that amount of power.

I beg to differ; 400whp on a BBK on 91 can happen...on a low reading dyno...look at my car: http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-tuning-results/468983-bbk-full-sd-91-tephra-v7.html

But anyhow, you need just about any supporting mod you can get your hands on to reach 400 on 91


ok theres one exception on earth with a very extensive list of parts and speed density, but why bother when u can use meth and spend thousands less?

[Residue]

uhm...because i dont want to blow my car up with a meth failure?

i have 91 and e85...absolutely no reason to even consider chance my motor on meth


and one exception? hardly. It can be repeated, and easily repeated, by visiting a higher reading dyno. Shit, if i were on the east coast, I could hit up TTP and probably pull 600 on their dyno...but anyhow i digress.

My point being to dismiss your statement of 'it is not possible'...it is entirely possible

[amak87]

With the bbk full and full exhaust manifold porting and aftermarket 02, 1000cc injectors and MAPs rev2 ported stock intake mani, spooling up.com's COP ignition kit, and a good tune will easily get you to 400whp on pump. Plus you stay away from the police if you keep your stock air box in. ;)

Cheapest and most efficient route..

Cams shouldn't be needed, and should only be used to get that extra hp/tq you're looking for... they are just too lopey and take driveability away and lowend..

I know from experience with tuning and install of this turbo.

[RALLInspired]

With the bbk full and full exhaust manifold porting and aftermarket 02, 1000cc injectors and MAPs rev2 ported stock intake mani, spooling up.com's COP ignition kit, and a good tune will easily get you to 400whp on pump. Plus you stay away from the police if you keep your stock air box in. ;)

Cheapest and most efficient route..

Cams shouldn't be needed, and should only be used to get that extra hp/tq you're looking for... they are just too lopey and take driveability away and lowend..

I know from experience with tuning and install of this turbo.


I agree. That cop kit is worth every penny.

[amak87]

Parts list..

BBK full $1450
MAP ported exhaust mani $250
MAP ported intake mani rev2 $250
Spoolinup.com's COP ignition kit $450
RC 1000cc injectors $400 ??
Invidia 02 housing $230
Greddy profec-b 2 EBC $350
ETS Lower intercooler pipe $120 ??
RRE rally cat (Test pipe) $180

A little over 3500 for parts....+400whp (dynojet)

[amak87]

And yes.. for all you haters and non believers of the BBK. It can easyily hit 400whp on a dynojet anyday of the week. Plus no lag.. full boost at 3400rpm with the right setup.

[RALLInspired]

Parts list..

BBK full $1450
MAP ported exhaust mani $250
MAP ported intake mani rev2 $250
Spoolinup.com's COP ignition kit $450
RC 1000cc injectors $400 ??
Invidia 02 housing $230
Greddy profec-b 2 EBC $350
ETS Lower intercooler pipe $120 ??
RRE rally cat (Test pipe) $180

A little over 3500 for parts....+400whp (dynojet)


3 port Bcs's are less than half the price of that ebc or really any.

[BOSSEVOIX]

Parts list..

BBK full $1450
MAP ported exhaust mani $250
MAP ported intake mani rev2 $250
Spoolinup.com's COP ignition kit $450
RC 1000cc injectors $400 ??
Invidia 02 housing $230
Greddy profec-b 2 EBC $350
ETS Lower intercooler pipe $120 ??
RRE rally cat (Test pipe) $180

A little over 3500 for parts....+400whp (dynojet)


what kind of hp is gained from the ported IM and TB? that $500 could be used for a good set of cams that would yield a bigger gain.

[90AWDSM]

-aem intake or you can do the hacked up airbox mod for super stealthiness
-gruppe s 3 port
-invidia o2 housing
-invidia, megan racing, mxp or perrin downpipe
-megan racing testpipe or mil.spec 100 cell(if you can't take the smell)
-catback(pick any 3")
-cams (cosworth m2, kelford m2, gsc s2)
-arp headstuds
-mil.spec or maperformance ported IM, TB, Ex. Mani, turbo
-rc1200cc injectors
-whinebro 255lph fuel pump
-AMS, CBRD or Nisei intercooler
-nisei or ams licp

with those mods you should be able to yield 400whp~ on a dynojet with a bbk full on 91oct :)

[FI]

"BBK turbo, do I really need all the aftermarket parts?"
Yes

[crand002]

I'm getting tuned by Reese this week with my BBK Full (unported) on both 91 and E85. I'm not sure what it will make but IMO I have the bare minimum mods but with cams. I will post the results in a few days.

[amak87]

CAMSHAFTS ARE NOT NEEDED AND WILL CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS ON YOUR EVO THEN YOU EVER ASKED FOR. THEY ARE ONE OF THE ONLY BOLT ON MOD THAT WILL CHANGE THE MECHANICAL OPERATION OF YOUR MOTOR... FOR 400WHP, CAMS ARE NOT NEEDED... plus you will have a hell of a time passing smog... hmm.. next year probably!!? Lol.

And yes. I've done it before, with the mods I listed, 400whp can easily be reached on a dynojet.

Rallinspired- I know that the ecu bc is cheaper, but the gredy ebc is much more user friendly and offers on the fly adjustments.. it also will spool up as fast or faster than ecu boost... since it does come with a 3port selenoid. But same idea.. I know you know what's up. ;)

[amak87]

Parts list..

BBK full $1450
MAP ported exhaust mani $250
MAP ported intake mani rev2 $250
Spoolinup.com's COP ignition kit $450
RC 1000cc injectors $400 ??
Invidia 02 housing $230
Greddy profec-b 2 EBC $350
ETS Lower intercooler pipe $120 ??
RRE rally cat (Test pipe) $180

A little over 3500 for parts....+400whp (dynojet)


what kind of hp is gained from the ported IM and TB? that $500 could be used for a good set of cams that would yield a bigger gain.


Peak power isn't anything. The ported intake and exhaust manifold will provide a lot more midrange power (20-30whp).. peak tq power measurements happen around 3400-3600rpm on stock frame turbos, but what about the rest of the power band??.. peak numbers don't mean an evo will be fast..

As well as MBCs compared to EBCs, they will produce very simular peak dyno results, but a properly tuned ebc will provide much more top end power by keeping the turbo boosting at the higher rpms.

[FI]

I'm getting tuned by Reese this week with my BBK Full (unported) on both 91 and E85. I'm not sure what it will make but IMO I have the bare minimum mods but with cams. I will post the results in a few days.


This mother fucker stole my idea! LOL. Congrats Nick.

[crand002]

^Haha we'll see how it turns out. I hope I didn't make a mistake going this route.

[FI]

I think you will like it unless you start getting Steven Crazy. If you do not, I got dibs on that snail. Did you buy it new?

[crand002]

Deal. Yeah it's brand new. Reese received it in the mail today. I should have results tonight if James has the time to tune it.

[BOSSEVOIX]

I'm getting tuned by Reese this week with my BBK Full (unported) on both 91 and E85. Â*I'm not sure what it will make but IMO I have the bare minimum mods but with cams. Â*I will post the results in a few days.

nice choice

[crand002]

Mods:

BBK Full (unported)
Cosworth M2's
ETS 3.5" IC
ETS LICP
AEM Intake
Perrin Test Pipe
Fugitsubo Exhaust
Prodrive BCS
FIC 1050cc Injectors
Buschur Fuel Rail
Walbro 255
Invidia 02 housing
Zero Porting

James did a great job and kept the boost at 28lbs which is what I asked for.Â* On E85 it made 425whp/380wtq.Â* Â*The car feels amazing, the surge is gone which is a huge plus.Â* 91 map will follow in a few weeks once the map switch comes in.

[FI]

What is needed for map switch?

[crand002]

I'm no too sure. Maybe James can chime in.

[TeKiZeRo]

If you're using Tephra 7 on your ECU, you can switch maps with the gas pedal. I'm currently using that right now between my 91 and E85.

[BOSSEVOIX]

Mods:

BBK Full (unported)
Cosworth M2's
ETS 3.5" IC
ETS LICP
AEM Intake
Perrin Test Pipe
Fugitsubo Exhaust
Prodrive BCS
FIC 1050cc Injectors
Walbro 255
Invidia 02 housing
Zero Porting

James did a great job and kept the boost at 28lbs which is what I asked for.Â* On E85 it made 425whp/380wtq.Â* Â*The car feels amazing, the surge is gone which is a huge plus.Â* 91 map will follow in a few weeks once the map switch comes in.


figures. awesome numbers, nothing but the best from James as usual. congrats

[crand002]

^Amen to that! I was just hoping for 400whp with my mods and boost levels.

[TeKiZeRo]

I'm glad you went with the BBK, Nick :D.

[autotaku]

I would like to thank everyone giving out helpful information in my build or anyones future build for a BBK setup.Â* It mean's a lot to me x] in many ways.Â* Plus I learned a lot lol.Â* I just purchased a TBE. nothing special.Â* But overall brilliant feedback from you guys.Â* A lot of my questions got answered before I could post another reply lol.Â*

Oh got one now.Â*
1. Injectors, I read up on an earlier post about injectors... would it have to be minimum of 1000? 1050? 1250?
any specific brand recommended for injectors if you mind me asking lol...

2. If i decided to get my exhaust manifold port and coated, is there any shops that do this in SoCal for a good price and quality to boot lol.Â* (sorry still new to Socal, researching like usual) x]

[HB Evo Owner]

fyi on what im purchasing because i am in the same mod path as you but i have aftermarket stuff already.
purchasing the bbk full, ets 3.5" intercooler, invidia o2 housing, sparktech non cdi, and PTE 1200cc injectors.
I have full exhaust, intake, and cams already and i also have rc1000s but i was recommended that if i want to run e85 at high boost to purchase the 1200cc's.

hopefully this helps you some...

[RALLInspired]

I would like to thank everyone giving out helpful information in my build or anyones future build for a BBK setup.Â* It mean's a lot to me x] in many ways.Â* Plus I learned a lot lol.Â* I just purchased a TBE. nothing special.Â* But overall brilliant feedback from you guys.Â* A lot of my questions got answered before I could post another reply lol.Â*

Oh got one now.Â*
1. Injectors, I read up on an earlier post about injectors... would it have to be minimum of 1000? 1050? 1250?
any specific brand recommended for injectors if you mind me asking lol...

2. If i decided to get my exhaust manifold port and coated, is there any shops that do this in SoCal for a good price and quality to boot lol.Â* (sorry still new to Socal, researching like usual) x]


RC 1000s are great to a certain point (as far as power). for higher HP cars FIC 1050 or FIC bluemax 1250cc injectors. bluemaxes are hard to scale on 91 but it can be done with minimal loss in driveability and will leave the most headroom.

[autotaku]

Ahhh i see Thank you for the info =D. Question again! LOL

3. Running different fuels would require differ Fuel Maps correct. So would my ECU be able to read both if set up with a switch .. or would that require something more. (Thanks for being patient with me xD)

[TeKiZeRo]

Your ECU can read any map.Â* You just need to switch between maps for different fuels (91, E85, etc).Â* I think it can only hold two-three maps max though and anymore you would need to upload it from your laptop.

Your parts seem pretty good.Â* I have the BBK full and ported everything and I am making 400WHP+ on 91 right now so it's possible :).Â* Make sure you run at least 1000CC injectors for the corn juice since it uses up a 'bit more.Â* If you're patient enough, I would get everything ported (exhaust manifold, turbo, bigger TB, intake manifold).Â* It malkes a huge difference in throttle response and spoolup.

[RALLInspired]

Ahhh i see Thank you for the info =D.Â* Question again! LOL

3. Running different fuels would require differ Fuel Maps correct. So would my ECU be able to read both if set up with a switch .. or would that require something more.Â* (Thanks for being patient with me xD)


the stock ECU can hold a MAX of 3 maps. 2 are fully functional and can be switched from one to the other i.e. 91 and e85. the 3rd map is a launch map that can be enabled by your tuner if you want it. it allows us to set up an actual 2 step instead of just the stationary rev limter.Â* this can be setup from mild to fully aggressive which puts a lot of strain on the engine but its great for drag racing. once enabled it can only be activated when the car is completely stopped and the throttle is at 98%+ once the car moves the ecu continues back to whatever map you were on. i've used it with great success on my personal evo... sometimes building 30+psi at launch (too high)

[crand002]

You are right Justin this is a nice little turbo.Â* It feels stock with a lot more top end. Thanks for the help.

[FI]

They seem to be very reliable too.

[FI]

Nick do you have upgraded head studs?

[tony@RALLInspired]

Ahhh i see Thank you for the info =D.Â* Question again! LOL

3. Running different fuels would require differ Fuel Maps correct. So would my ECU be able to read both if set up with a switch .. or would that require something more.Â* (Thanks for being patient with me xD)


the stock ECU can hold a MAX of 3 maps. 2 are fully functional and can be switched from one to the other i.e. 91 and e85. the 3rd map is a launch map that can be enabled by your tuner if you want it. it allows us to set up an actual 2 step instead of just the stationary rev limter.Â* this can be setup from mild to fully aggressive which puts a lot of strain on the engine but its great for drag racing. once enabled it can only be activated when the car is completely stopped and the throttle is at 98%+ once the car moves the ecu continues back to whatever map you were on. i've used it with great success on my personal evo... sometimes building 30+psi at launch (too high)


that was fun to watch

[crand002]

Nick do you have upgraded head studs?


Yes, I have ARP head studs.

[Reese Tuning]

I will do a little write up on your rig Nick. The tune was spot on. I am glad you are happy with it. Sucks we didn't have success with it at the Q.

James

[blkEVO8]

nice nice makein power now!

[crand002]

^Spanks dude, its definately not as angry on the street as yours.

[Johnson]

400 on 91 is gonna be kinda difficult...

[Azian]

400 on 91 is gonna be kinda difficult...
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