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View Full Version : GM 3 Port VS. Gruppe-S 3 Port, Which one is better?



05-EVO-GSR
06-17-2010, 12:01 PM
I am considering switching to ECU Boost Control. Which one do you use and why?

The differences that I can see so far are the GM 3 Port requires you to splice into the factory wire harness and the Gruppe-S is plug and play. Does someone offer a harness for the GM one?

Where do you get your boost source from? Turbo? BOV?

Anyone ever used either one of these with a bigger turbo? (Non-OEM frame: 50 Trim, GT3076R or GT35R or bigger)

What are the pro's and con's to each one?

Thanks!

silvrEVOIXn818
06-17-2010, 12:30 PM
hope this help u make ur decision... the gruppe-s isnt on the list, but the GM is the way to go. O0
I believe there is a harness u just have to source out who has them. I think bryan @ gst was looking into aquiring some of these harnesses.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/379043-bcs-testing-data.html

Im running a GM due to mrfreds findings, and find its very responsive, easy to tune, and am quite happy w/ it. (stock turbo) the size of the turbo is irrelevant to the BCS. A 3 port is the best BCS u can have! The ONLY downside is the splicing.

and ur questions can be answered here.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/276674-how-control-boost-using-ecuflash-3-port-gm-boost-solenoid.html

hyokilee
06-17-2010, 12:59 PM
I did a ton of research on this.
On My 8 with 3076 and100% meth injection, I wanted ecu to pull boost when it knocks.

On gm 3port, I saw rather high duty cycle and reliability seemed questionable.

ThereAre quite a bit of praise on mac valve based bcs. So i went with grimspeed bcs. Its super popular with subaru crowd and its plug n tune.

It has considerably lower duty cycle and mac valves last forever.

Only down side is you can hear it clicking if you have stock exhaust. I use a e cutout so when open I can't hear it.

Macvalve bcs ftw!

hyokilee
06-17-2010, 01:32 PM
I bought mine at map modern automotive performance

oldevodude
06-19-2010, 11:11 AM
I did a ton of research on this.
On My 8 with 3076 and100% meth injection, I wanted ecu to pull boost when it knocks.

On gm 3port, I saw rather high duty cycle and reliability seemed questionable.
When the GM's were cheaper (like $45 shipped) it was worht it to me to buy GM and resistor and solder it in. $50 for plug and play was not worth it to me as I'm a cheap bastard and that money hopefully bought Beer or other car parts :)
There Are quite a bit of praise on mac valve based bcs. So i went with grimspeed bcs. Its super popular with subaru crowd and its plug n tune.

LOL Rambling as I "Burn in" new computer on 40 inch monitor ")
Good Luck on your decision I say both will work fine but if you ever want to compare notes or settings with anyone there are probably alot more peeps runnin the GM than any other combined


It has considerably lower duty cycle and mac valves last forever.

Only down side is you can hear it clicking if you have stock exhaust. I use a e cutout so when open I can't hear it.

Macvalve bcs ftw!


Based on what you are saying the Mac Valve simply closes earlier with less duty cycles or voltage percentage of time. Questionable reliability? both use wires that are wound around a center coreto create a type of Electric magnet aka solenoid. I'll bet both valves worked and I'll also bet that when Mr. Fredtested both the Mac and the GM that the GM had quicker response. Now if we are trying to bleed off or block boost or vacuum pressure to control a turbo wouldn;t it be advantagous to have one that is quicker responding? As long as a Solenoid is not close to 100% duty MOST of the time there is no problem as heat could be an issue in a poorly designed product. The thing to worry about in my opinion with either or any solenoid is what happens if it fails? do you run full boost and blow your motor or do you run wastegate boost? this depends on configuration. Best to have visible boost gauge and verfiy regularly that you are not overboosting IMO. It should also be noted the GM valve in it's basic design configuration has been around since the early 1980's in the Buick GNX and Pontiac grand National ever hear of those ???

In the end both will work fine although one might have small advantages over the other. I'm not picking or trying to discredit what you say as you are sharing your opinion and so am I :)

PS If I'm not mistaken the stock solenoid runs extremely high duty cycles also :) :)

hyokilee
06-20-2010, 10:04 PM
from what I know, mac valve bcs has more fine tuning ability, where as GM gets a bit finicky and over adjusts while tuning.

end results are pretty much same but I found that mac valve is the big daddy of all ebcs.

copied from GS
AWD Tuning:
"The GS 3-port BCS provides rapid boost response while maintaining the ability to make acute adjustments via turbo dynamics. While many other boost control solenoids react to adjustments too fast which can make them difficult to control with as much finesse as the stock bleed system. This solenoid can make micro-adjustments at the edge of target boost not only providing better spool, but overall more control. "

Bullwinkle Tuning:
"The GrimmSpeed BCS is a compact, well designed unit. Its design as a 3-port solenoid provides better boost control then the stock bleed-type style. Often, this enables a tuner to cut mapped wastegate duty cycles in half. This change in WGDC gives a tuner more granularity when tuning, and can yield much improved boost curves. In addition, the 3-port design often significantly improves spool."

If an experienced tuner can chime in, would be great with some solid information.

hl.girl.cris
06-20-2010, 11:08 PM
the only people that should be talking are those that have tuned these BCSs. simply copying and pasting something off a website doesn't do anyone any good. its advertisting... ask anyone. GM 3 ports are still one of the best methods of boost control. there are also plug and play harnesses available for these and some tuners use them. Most 3 ports do very well and the driver you won't really notice a damn thing really.

HMatt
06-22-2010, 03:34 PM
^spoolinup.com sells the plug and play harness for the gm bcs. They came out with it a couple months AFTER I had already spliced and installed mine.... :(

tony@RALLInspired
06-22-2010, 03:38 PM
^spoolinup.com sells the plug and play harness for the gm bcs. They came out with it a couple months AFTER I had already spliced and installed mine.... :(


same O0

WhiteIXMR
06-22-2010, 03:42 PM
They're both the same thing it's just that one has a harness (Gruppe-S) and one didn't..the GM released the harness not too long ago. But they both work the same way. It'll just come down to pricing that's all.

oldevodude
06-23-2010, 11:16 AM
Agreed they all do the job BUT if you want more info. with REAL testing then go here


http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/379043-bcs-testing-data.html

mrfred
06-29-2010, 10:28 AM
from what I know, mac valve bcs has more fine tuning ability, where as GM gets a bit finicky and over adjusts while tuning.

end results are pretty much same but I found that mac valve is the big daddy of all ebcs.

copied from GS
AWD Tuning:
"The GS 3-port BCS provides rapid boost response while maintaining the ability to make acute adjustments via turbo dynamics. While many other boost control solenoids react to adjustments too fast which can make them difficult to control with as much finesse as the stock bleed system. This solenoid can make micro-adjustments at the edge of target boost not only providing better spool, but overall more control. "

Bullwinkle Tuning:
"The GrimmSpeed BCS is a compact, well designed unit. Its design as a 3-port solenoid provides better boost control then the stock bleed-type style. Often, this enables a tuner to cut mapped wastegate duty cycles in half. This change in WGDC gives a tuner more granularity when tuning, and can yield much improved boost curves. In addition, the 3-port design often significantly improves spool."

If an experienced tuner can chime in, would be great with some solid information.


I bench tested the Grimmspeed back in February. The response of this solenoid is very similar to the GM. It opens a little faster than the GM, but it bleeds off a little more air than the GM in the mid duty-cycle range. The faster response is good, but the greater bleed makes it a little more coarse in boost target adjustments. Don't know where you are getting your info on finicky response or reliability of the GM 3-port. I do not know of any failed GM 3-ports on EvoM, and GST has several race cars running the GM 3-port for several years with no issues. Both are plug-n-play. Overall, I'd say its a wash between the GM and the Grimmspeed.

RisingphoenIx
06-29-2010, 10:32 AM
good info as always MRfred. you should pay the site a visit a little more often O0

amaev05
06-29-2010, 05:21 PM
i am also interested in the original question which was gm vs group s??? i have the group s and it says it is made in germany where is the gm unit made? and any tests between the 2? or? is the group s unit acutely a gm unit?

HMatt
06-29-2010, 07:09 PM
good info as always MRfred. you should pay the site a visit a little more often O0

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