Methanol Users/Tuners Opinon

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Hello, I have been saving up to install a 2nd Meth kit in my car, (going with the HFS-3 aquamist) Coolingmist buy was a bust. But that is another story. Question is, anyone really mess around with the Meth vs Water ratios? Enough so, that they have dyno results and not opinion backing it up? I have been debating on what % to run. I DO NEED the cooling affect since I live in the desert where it is over 110F for 4 months. 100% Meth does not have the cooling affect im desiring, so that is out. So I am considering either 50/50 or 75/25, mainly because it would be easier to mix than a 60/40 or a 80/20. Just wanted to see if anyone had any luck experimenting with the ratios. I know it comes down to injector size and tuning, but just in general.

I will be hopefully getting the new kit installed soon. Just the GOV of CA is taxing the HELL out of its State Workers which is causing me allot of grief just to keep the Evo in the garage. I will take suggestions to the shop when I go.

Thanks guys...and gals..

[Mike W]

100% meth makes more power for me than a mix with water, The down side is the whole dieing in a horrific fire part though.

Mike W

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Mike,

If you run 100% and use a vented cap wouldn't the fumes be an issue as well?

I was just going to throw a gallon jug in the void area in the trunk, drivers side behind the grey panel.

It may vent outside in that placement if it vents down and out the bumper area. In therory anyway. Watcha think?

[HMatt]

Subscribed... I want to see more info on this.

[Mike W]

I have not noticed the smell much. But then again I grew up working in body and paint shops so you might be asking the wrong person.

One thing we do notice with a 100% meth car is that if the car sits closed for a while, when you go to open the door the door rubber kind of sticks.

Mike W

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I still think 50/50 is the route to go, I think more power can be made from it vs 100% If the tuners took the time to dial it in. Thing is in a wham bam thank you very much tune, its easier to tune on 100% for the tuner, but I don't think that makes for the best reliable HP. Now, I am not a tuner, I only know the basics, but I have read allot, and my gut feeling is 50/50 is the way to go. Tuners will raise hell, but doenst mean they are always right. I will see. :) Allot has to do with the tuners ability to tune methanol properly. IMO.

[Mike W]

Where have you read about how 50/50 can make more power? I'd like to read about what to do different. Is it more about the ignition advance or the air fuel ratio? Or something with the volume being injected?

Tuning for me is the easy part. I have found the biggest challenge with meth/water injection is a proper safe install. The most common down fall leading to engine failures is somethign coming off or loose.

Mike W

[1WkdEvo]

I have seen one person on Evom say that they made more power with a 50/50 blend, only to get piled on by most of the tuners there. Was his data accurate? Were his theories correct? Was he full of crap? I don't know, but he did say that the tune took days to dial in as opposed to hours. The theories behind it were too involved for my ADHD to read thoroughly, but he said he did it and it worked. If eeking out a few more HP is worth it to you, then go for it

I may have subscribed to the thread so Ill look for it if it is still around

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Mike, look at this, this is possibly changing my mind about Meth. Â*Im teder tottering now, Damn. Â*This bites.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/501954-so-you-have-meth-injection-your-pistons-also-cracked.html

Just not sure now. Â*Could be many things, but its something to consider for sure. Â*I will think on it. Â*

[1WkdEvo]

I saw that thread too when it started. Some people have also put spayers in each runner on the IM as opposed to the uicp to ensure equal spray to each cylinder. How badly do you want it :)

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Im a regular guy working a regular job, can't afford a new motor. May have to pass.

[HMatt]

Well... that sucks... I didn't know that peeps were having that many issues with meth...

[Mike W]

I dont get it:


We werent tuning with the meth actually, the pump was unplugged.. this thing cracked the ring on 14psi believe it or not on pump gas.. within 4 pulls..


There is a butt load of threads on EVO M and I seen a couple myself with busted pistons like that with meth nowhere near the cars. That TTP guy has his conspiracy theories about how ring gaps are bunk.


Mike W

[1WkdEvo]

TTP is a joke and just about everyone on Evom agrees.

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Well, I do believe allot of the problems on the EvoM thread was tuning, and install issues. What I dont think people realize is if your running a system that is NOT primed with some kind of preasure, for example the Aquamist is primed at 160psi, you may very well have knock in the Lower gears if your running a stock turbo. Problem I had was even with a check valve and what not, I wasnt getting the meth to the cylinders fast enough. Now, not many tuners do pulls in 1-3 gear (6spd). Most do pulls in either 3rd (5spd) or 4th (6spd) at that, it was all good, 1-3 knocked. So I would be curious to have some tuners get their customers cars up on the dyno and do some pulls in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in WOT and see what happends. Its things like this, that can make things like on the EvoM page happen. IMO. Im still undecided too, damn sucks. Had Jeff Howerton on the horn yesterday for my HFS-3 Kit too. Geeze, I really need to think this over.

[Skiracer]

if you want to inject alcohol into your car, i'd say dump E85 into your gas tank so you don't have to worry about the injection' failsafes not working or like at the MOD a few years ago a 3000GT's meth hose blew off on the RRE dyno and the engine went kaboom shortly afterwords

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Well, no argument on E85, but its not practical for people where the nearest station is over 100 miles away. Additionally, what people don't realize is that E85 was only pushed by the US government to help get us off foreign oil. Problem is this. The Gov subsidized the farmers to grow the crops needed for the production of E85. The problem is, that the Gov found that E85 was a complete failure. Not in the means that we here on so cal would use it in our Evos, but as a national fuel for cars to get us off foreign oil it was a complete failure. It simply costs too much to produce. Now, the Gov has subsidized the Manufactureres and the farmers for this adjustment in cost to keep the cost down and make it affordable for them to produce. That contract ends in 2012. My local Senator I spoke to at a local town house meeting said that E85 was a failure and the Gov has no plans to renew the subsidies that it has been providing. I just wanted to know if I can get it where I live, haha, and He said, don't bother son, it wont be around long enough to worry about. So, take that for what you want. If you really want to know, write your local State or local Gov official and see for yourself. If it does happen, which seems likely, he said 2012 the Gov pulls out, and within a couple of years you will see less and less E85 until its just no more. I am sure you can still get it ordered like Race Gas, but then, what would be the point? Anyway, Again, take it for what its worth, but thats what I was told.

As Forest Gump Says, "Thats All I have to say About That".

[1WkdEvo]

Politics aside...

I have made the case for Meth value for a long time. Having run Meth, 100 Octane, and E85 on a DD I have been able to provide cost analysis showing that Meth is just as cost effective as E85 but way more practical for an average Joe in states or regions where E85 is sparse (Like SoCal) It doesn't make quite a much power as E85, but it is significantly etter than anything else, is very cheap to run, and doesn't hamstring you when travelling. Meth can be a great tool

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Yes, I was sold on Methanol. I had my heart set on getting it but that thread kinda freaked me out. Yeah I am scared, who cares? If I didn't drive the car and depended on it to get me and my kids around I wouldn't care you know? Even then I still would, but then it would be a money issue. Its always a money issue. I have not made up my mind yet, but my plan was an Aquamist HFS-3 with Duel Injectors, run 1 about 6 inches from the TB, the other about 18" from the TB, one at 1.0mm and the other at .8mm or .9mm. I had the plan, Had the vision, then I saw the nightmare. Shizzle its a heart breaker. So, I either punk out on the Meth and save for a turbo upgrade, or go Meth and cross my fingers. So who knows...not sure yet. I am sure I will have a good quality kit, and I am confident in the install, and the tune, and I don't half ass stuff. I would run a Temphra Mod Failsafe to the Aquamist Controller. Run 50/50 and call it a day. I will let you guys know what I decide. Damn that EvoM haha.

[1WkdEvo]

Good luck either way.

[lemmonhead]

The reason why tuners dont suggest 50/50 or any mix I think is this. They cant depend on the customer to put the exact mix of meth/water all the time. Some customers might use different types of windshield cleaner also. So, Why deal with issues down the road by an incompetent customer when he can just tune for 100% meth, that way its easy for the customer to refuel.

(meth vs e85)
Meth in my opionion is better than E85, because when you order meth you can measure the consistency of the meth before you put it in your car. With e85 your hoping its what it says it is. There is lots of inconsistency in the amount amoung different stations.
#2- with meth your only flowing in high boost, e85 your flowing all the time.
#3- meth combines with water VERY VERY well, with E85 you get separation between the water and the alchole! its probably a good thing e85 you get less MPH because it keeps you filling up your tank faster so less chance of separation problems.

Water injection will give you the most power, people dont do it because of the complications in the set up. this is the reason why Dept. of Defense used it instead of a mixture of meth/water.

In the end, I would always use a mix 60/40 or 50/50 over both 100% water or meth injection.

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Some good points but keep in mind most kits now a days are "progressive" and not only used at "high" boost. So the Meth Mix is being used more frequently. Most kits kick on around 7-8lbs of boost then build from there. 7-8lbs is what I use just to get the car moving, haha. So its used more than you think.

As for mixing, that is on the customer not the tuner. True there are allot of lame ducks out there and those are the ones blowing engines. My guess is many people tune for 100% and find out they are burning through the stuff like a mad man, and start to delute it with water, or something. This causes issues.

Allot of it has to do with Tuning. I would run a 1 step colder plug and also change the plugs often. Meth eats metals remember its an acid. Put 100% on your OEM NGK's and see what happends. You need to change those suckers probably every 5K miles to ensure they are not missfiring, Iridium or not.

I am learning allot about the Meth Mix game and what works and what doesn't. I am by no means a mad scientist with the ECU as some awesome tuners are here in SoCal, but I know how an engine works, and the fundamentals. You do the basics yourself and leave the trickery to the pros. If you want your car to live on Meth for a long time??? its all in the TUNE THE TUNE THE TUNE!! Have Good quality stuff that WORKS on the EVO is of the UP MOST importance. So go with what the pros use and 9 out of 10 times its an aquamist. There must be a reason for it. As I found out using an Cooliingmist CMGS kit on my car. Was a COMPLETE FLOP!!