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View Full Version : Should a SOCALEVO vendor have a BAR liscense and garage keepers insurance



Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Seems there has been many scum bags and moms garage specialist. I would like to see what everyone's opinion on here is about a vendor being required to have insurance and a BAR license. I am in hope this thread would enlighten everyone the risks a person takes when working out of mom's garage next to the maytag. I have seen to many people this year come through my shop get ripped off, taken advantage off and fucked in their ass because someone wants to make a quick buck. Please do not turn this into a nasty thread. I am sure this can remain civil!!

Please feel free to speak your mind. If this fails we can discuss this over on my forums as it will not be deleted,cleaned up etc.

James

jebus27
08-11-2010, 07:35 PM
i voted yes, its just common sense

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 07:40 PM
Seems this thread has a good start already..

James

Pure EvoIX
08-11-2010, 07:42 PM
It protects both the customer and the business. Gives business more legitimacy and gives customer more confidence and peace of mind. Nothing negative can come from this.

RisingphoenIx
08-11-2010, 07:44 PM
this thread can very much be self serving as well. don't let the idiocy of a few ruin it for all... great timing reese right after all the Javi build up.

400whp350wtq
08-11-2010, 07:45 PM
yes

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 07:48 PM
I am an honest person. Seriously this forum needs more structure. Its not nice to see close buddies and forum members get fucked. Especially by someone that has no business wrenching tuning.

James

canyonkid
08-11-2010, 07:50 PM
I think maybe that a vendor that's gona do engine builds and actual wrenching then yes! But tire vendors and tuners no. Maybe make 2 kinds of vendors?

phoreal
08-11-2010, 07:52 PM
voted yes, some have really gotten screwed such as "vendors" keepin parts off cars or never installin them to to begin with. atleast this way the consumer will know if the shop is legit and if anything goes wrong the shops insurance or whatever will cover it and everyone will be happy

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 07:52 PM
Tuners NO? Are you kidding?? Use your brain. You are tampering with the heart, vitals of an engine! Rethink that.

* *James

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Keep in mind this is the best thing for a consumer :)

James

canyonkid
08-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Tuners NO? Are you kidding?? Use your brain. You are tampering with the heart, vitals of an engine! Rethink that.

* *James
well yea I know that, but who really warantys their tune? Do u?

JDMwhore
08-11-2010, 07:58 PM
I vote YES and also a rating for other members on here, so we know who's the scammer or sell crappy items.

Dead_Pirate
08-11-2010, 08:05 PM
All I have to say is I love James Reese.. Hahahahahahaha no homo... But with my drinking and beiing at the Joan jett concert aside... I totally agree a vendor should have a bar lisence!

Cheers and bump!

b
08-11-2010, 08:10 PM
as much as i want this to happen, i highly doubt it'll work. i guess its all just taking risk. why we have buyers corner, just to give the customers a heads up.

Skiracer
08-11-2010, 08:17 PM
If someone is just doing mail/internet orders and not doing any labor, i don't think they need it.

Plus, if some other shops fudges some work, its just more business for you in the future.

Mike W
08-11-2010, 08:18 PM
The only thing a "vendor" needs is a hot dog cart or one of those popsicle carts with the bells. I want to be a real "shop". I dont want to be a vendor.

A Real Shop would have all that. I do, and more. Haz Mat generator permit, California EPA id number, city business license, resale permit, SEMA membership, library card and a Sam's Club Card.

If you have the right fan boi groupies, you can work out of your house. But on the internets you look like a big conglometate. Average Joe stumbles into So Cal EVO and does not have any idea who is who really. Good threads always go to shit in less than a day and get burried. The lines get blurred on message boards.

I think RRE deals with and sells to and gets along fine with the little guys. I'd just like to be presented different. Because I am.

Mike W

IBL!!!

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 08:19 PM
I agree with that skiracer.

James

rl22
08-11-2010, 08:27 PM
y anybody would let someone with no business licence or bar licence work on their vehicles is beyone me. $100-$5000 repairs or whatever should have a qualified shops or at the least have a certified technician perform the repairs. people keep trying to save a dollar and at the end they spend 4 times the amount and get in the back side. i see this every single day :'(

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 08:30 PM
This thread is going nicely. Lets please keep this civil. I do have this carried over to my forum. Feel free to hop over there and elaborate.

James

4G63 FEVER
08-11-2010, 08:33 PM
Tuners NO? Are you kidding?? Use your brain. You are tampering with the heart, vitals of an engine! Rethink that.

* *James


HAHA surely you jest!!!! There are PLENTY of good private tuners on this board. Just because you have a shop does not make you legitimate and not having one make you a know nothing.

You would love to run your competition under this way wouldn't you? No on your poll *but thanks for playing.

It's called caveat emptor *(not sure of the spelling there) let the buyer be ware says it all. Just because you have a shop and all the credentials doesn't mean you are the only place to go.

Rest assured I have had problems with a shop on here that have a real bay so it really makes no difference. Shifty people don't care and will shaft you shop or not.

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Tuners NO? Are you kidding?? Use your brain. You are tampering with the heart, vitals of an engine! Rethink that.

* *James
well yea I know that, but who really warantys their tune? Do u?


Yes we do warranty our tunes and our builds. When your car is built at Reese Tuning ALL WORK (INCLUDING TUNING IS WARRANTIED) Sounds like a no brainer huh?

James

4G63 FEVER
08-11-2010, 08:38 PM
y anybody would let someone with no business licence or bar licence work on their vehicles is beyone me. $100-$5000 repairs or whatever should have a qualified shops or at the least have a certified technician perform the repairs. people keep trying to save a dollar and at the end they spend 4 times the amount and get in the back side. i see this every single day :'(


:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: So says the guy who has a guy that either owns or is a manager who had a shop who had many say they did bad work. The older people here know who I'm talking about.

Folks who live in glass house should not throw stones.

Coolguy949
08-11-2010, 08:39 PM
We are already working on something like this. Apparently not fast enough... :)

KT Motoring
08-11-2010, 08:39 PM
I would love to see this implemented on this site. *At a minimum, a seller's permit should be required. *Other Evo *sites have such requirements and seem to be much better organized partly because of the stricter vendor requirements.

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 08:39 PM
Do those private tuners tune other than a stock ECU? Answer that my friend. Or are they loading a map that came from a legit, professional tuner? I have yet to see a car tuned from one of those private tunes perform well on a dyno. They are all just a base flash and thanks for the $250. Not to mention I have yet to see one of these private tuners power a 9 sec car, winning proven TA car.

* James

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 08:47 PM
The poll says it all. I could careless what all the kids say on here. There are three GROWN men in here that agree. One of which that is employed by Mitsubishi. Thank you for all the interest fellas.

* *James

big boss
08-11-2010, 08:47 PM
I say YES and NO! Yes if your doing something through a big well known shop and have the money to pay for it! * No if your down to risk it on a well known Person for installs or Tuner and as long as you sign a waiver stating your on your own if something happens... JUST MY 2 cents!

GokuSSJ4
08-11-2010, 09:00 PM
The business in the Evo community has changed over the last 7 yrs.
While this was a no brainier in the past; now it's become an issue!!
Like Rob mentioned already its on the works.* He will make those fancy screen names rainbow colors to differentiate between a REAL Shop" and some one who isn't and doesn't have the means to warranty their work.
As a customer I would never allow someone who doesn't have all the means necessary to perform such task, we were all young once and can learn by our experience in the past.*
Glad u guys r eager to see a change in Socal!! :)

Coolguy949
08-11-2010, 09:06 PM
The business in the Evo community has changed over the last 7 yrs.
While this was a no brainier in the past; now it's become an issue!!
Like Rob mentioned already its on the works.* He will make those fancy screen names rainbow colors to differentiate between a REAL Shop" and some one who isn't and doesn't have the means to warranty their work.
As a customer I would never allow someone who doesn't have all the means necessary to perform such task, we were all young once and can learn by our experience in the past.*
Glad u guys r eager to see a change in Socal!! :)


Well said. Back then the community was smaller and more cohesive. Today it has a wide reach and more anonymity. Less centralized, unlike it was our first few years. This is one of the growing pains we are facing but in the end it will make for a more quality experience for members.

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Keep it going folks. Goku, thank you for the words. Seems we are on the same page for once ;)

* James

Dead_Pirate
08-11-2010, 09:08 PM
+1 bump this shit up!!! Let's have a party for it!

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 09:16 PM
I am going to ask these private tuners to come my RS. I am running an AEM Gen2. Sometimes I run the Haltech sport. Are they capable of this? Didn't think so. I will pay any private tuner to come tune my RS. $400 an hour. Tune it like I do. Step right up. Will not happen. Good evening fellas ;)

James

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 09:18 PM
That is what separates the puberty from the big dicks. I am tired of holding my thoughts to myself. Keep the poll going folks.

James

pensport
08-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Mike @ RRE said it best! * I have seen plenty of shops being bashed on this site, so I really don't think having a license will separate those who do shotty work or have shotty service from the rest. I have even complained about one (which my thread was deleted quickly just because they were a vendor even though I was trying to help the Evo community with the experience I had) Although I agree that if someone is conducting business then yes they should be required to jump through the hoops it takes to acquire a license and be required to present it. Also I like the idea of those who conduct a legit and real business and go through the process of their state, pay the fees to be a legit business should be presented differently. *My .02 *:)

Muellerized...
08-11-2010, 09:52 PM
Yes we do warranty our tunes and our builds. When your car is built at Reese Tuning ALL WORK (INCLUDING TUNING IS WARRANTIED) Sounds like a no brainer huh?

* *James

What is the warranty good for if you proved yourself totally incapable of doing the job remotely correct the first time?

And there are many levels of insurance for working on automobiles, a standard garagekeepers policy does not help for any specialized builds, this is why we have insurance that is unique to the nature of the work we do.

As far as legitimate business entities being classified as a vendor on this site, legal business operations should be a key element, but I think you should look deep into the mirror James before you push threads like this online...

Reese Tuning
08-11-2010, 10:10 PM
PM sent. No need to wash my thread with BS ;) That's how mature gentlemen discuss things.

James

RisingphoenIx
08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
James don't be a fool. You know full well had you tried to pull this sort of BS before the javi ordeal that there wouldn't be the same support. My response to you is the similar to what i told mike (socalredline). I don't care what exotic ecu u can make a car fast on. You are arrogrant for no reason. Trust me your stock ecu tunes are nothing magical. You also seem to fail to understand the entire point of the stock ecu boost control system and how to use it. I don't care what numbers car make on your dyno either. Let me ask you something james. Let's say you and anyone else choose a neutral dyno and tune to see who can make the bigger penis graph since that's all you seem to talk about. How much more power should you make using your vast knowledge? You are the best ttuner right? Can't you tune drunk as a MF better than anyone else in socal? Don't take this personal either.

BudLightMike
08-11-2010, 10:29 PM
im really biting my tongue here. *i will keep this clean. *but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned. *i understand where your coming from in a corporate world, *but were all here for our cars. *some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune. *fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car. *if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it. *im not scared to admit it either. *i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!

BudLightMike
08-11-2010, 10:39 PM
P.S. unless there notorious for blowing motors!

BOSSEVOIX
08-11-2010, 10:41 PM
*grabbing a beer*

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 12:21 AM
out of respect for the civil conversation i had with james on the* phone i will say that we have both come to an understanding of each other feelings on this issue.* We talked for a good hour and a half so im not sure if he is willing to change the tone of this thread or not but he can at least understand where i am coming from.

i will point out that the first few minutes or so was a shouting match after calling me out :twisted: but we got through it in one piece.

prime8
08-12-2010, 12:22 AM
im really biting my tongue here. i will keep this clean. but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned. i understand where your coming from in a corporate world, but were all here for our cars. some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune. fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car. if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it. im not scared to admit it either. i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!
well said O0

big boss
08-12-2010, 12:24 AM
im really biting my tongue here. *i will keep this clean. *but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned. *i understand where your coming from in a corporate world, *but were all here for our cars. *some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune. *fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car. *if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it. *im not scared to admit it either. *i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!
+1248456449854946 thats kinda what I said earlier but you said it BEST ;)

Azian
08-12-2010, 12:25 AM
im really biting my tongue here. *i will keep this clean. *but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned. *i understand where your coming from in a corporate world, *but were all here for our cars. *some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune. *fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car. *if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it. *im not scared to admit it either. *i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!
+1 :)

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 12:26 AM
its should also be noted that most of the orange names you've become familiar with started off by doing and some still do "backyard" work. *to say otherwise would be a lie.

FI
08-12-2010, 12:27 AM
I do not see this happening unless forum members stared donating $$$ to the site.

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 12:37 AM
im really biting my tongue here.* i will keep this clean.* but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned.* i understand where your coming from in a corporate world,* but were all here for our cars.* some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune.* fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car.* if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it.* im not scared to admit it either.* i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!


+1 mike but consider yourself lucky to a degree.* there are those amoung us that would gladly take advantage of people in the same situation.* Being informed here is key so its important for everyone to be allowed to share experiences vendor or not.* the problem with the online forums is the speed at which word spreads whether or not its true... anonimity is also big here as anyone can just make a buch of bogus screen names and lie.* There is a point to have proper legitimate businesses but believe me as i explained to James on the phone the issue goes beyond that.* Tell me there aren't shady "legit businesses" in every industry out there whose only goal is to make the most amount possible out of everyone that walks in the door.* sadly most of those who are and have been taken advantage of never make use of their legal rights anyways... in our particular situation most of us just want our cars running properly meaning 1 safely and 2 at their fullest potential.* Paying 700 for a tune or $3000 labor for an engine build doesn't guarautee quality or performance but merely reflects the overhead which the shop may have including advertising cost and what someone thinks their time is worth.* Again not every vendor here is "out to get you" and most do charge an honest rate, but don't take an orange name at face value either.

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 12:50 AM
after thought: lets not also ignore the fact that its the mistakes of those fools whom are only here to make a quick buck that still manage to bring in business for those that actually know what they are doing both vendor/business owner or not. sadly someone blowes a motor who went to the joe blow who is actually out there to get you... who makes the money off larbor parts and install to get the car running again... surely not joe blow again right (unless you are... cough... MG :twisted:)? or so we would hope not. And bar license or not how many times have we actually had someone take it that far to the point of shutting down ones business. I'll say it again most joe regulars only want their pride and joy running good.

GokuSSJ4
08-12-2010, 12:52 AM
im really biting my tongue here.* i will keep this clean.* but there are garage tuners on this site james that have not had one single issue with any cars they have tuned.* i understand where your coming from in a corporate world,* but were all here for our cars.* some of us are not ballers that can afford a bad ass shop tune.* fuck man i paid 160 for my tune and my car ran like a champ 0 issues the whole time i had the car.* if i was balling out of control i might have sprung for a tune that cost 650 700 dollars but i simply couldnt afford it.* im not scared to admit it either.* i respect all vendors on this website and think even the small garage tuners deserve thier shot on this site just like the big boys!


+1 mike but consider yourself lucky to a degree.* there are those amoung us that would gladly take advantage of people in the same situation.* Being informed here is key so its important for everyone to be allowed to share experiences vendor or not.* the problem with the online forums is the speed at which word spreads whether or not its true... anonimity is also big here as anyone can just make a buch of bogus screen names and lie.* There is a point to have proper legitimate businesses but believe me as i explained to James on the phone the issue goes beyond that.* Tell me there aren't shady "legit businesses" in every industry out there whose only goal is to make the most amount possible out of everyone that walks in the door.* sadly most of those who are and have been taken advantage of never make use of their legal rights anyways... in our particular situation most of us just want our cars running properly meaning 1 safely and 2 at their fullest potential.* Paying 700 for a tune doesn't guarautee quality or performance but merely reflects the overhead which the shop may have including advertising cost and what someone thinks their time is worth.* Again not every vendor here is "out to get you" and most do charge an honest rate, but don't take an orange name at face value either.


All i can do is laugh at the way you guys analyze all the different non shop experience. Like i said, the community has changed drastically for the last past 7 yrs.
I find it hard to believe that anyone willing to dish out a good amount of money lacks the search capabilities to deal with a certain individual.
I've seen people start slowly in this community and become the shop that they are at the moment. Except RRE, since they have been here since the beginning, they are the pioneers of the Evo and DSM community who have seen just about anything and everything. Aside from that, honestly i have seen most and remember their roots and origin. Kinda crazy to see what things have become now n days.
Now, a new system will be implemented to inform those who need a decision making with all flags, bells and whistles. *Just a matter of time, also this will help those that have put in their time and can standout within the community.
Shops that have been a pioneer and deal with customers in a professional way like a business should.
That should help the entire community itself.
Now, lets not bash anyone since this thread isn't about that but a way to clearly communicate those the information need it through the proper channels on who is who within the community.
There's a huge difference between some one who sells (as an example tires) and another person who can do it all~~~ and this is the entire point why this thread was created.

GokuSSJ4
08-12-2010, 12:56 AM
I do not see this happening unless forum members stared donating $$$ to the site.
just a matter of time before this new system is implemented. The admins are working on the new changes that need to take place on the site itself.

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 01:01 AM
you are right goku again my only point is that everyone should be given a chance to prove themselves... sadly i must admit this will involve some people having to go through some major issues but eventually the actual talent will make it through. *i also agree that there should be a good system to flag individuals and business who are known to do bad work as well both vendor or not. *As a communitry we should be looking out for one another and i couldn't agree more with mike the good threads always seem to go down in flames... i admit to being partially at fault in the last one but James at least now knows where im coming from on that or so i'd hope O0

i really think there should be some sort of rating system as well where there is the abilty to rate a person only when proper feedback has been left and approved!!! much like say ebay or amazon my favorit being the best buy site where ever product feedback is checked and cleared. should go for all members which would help the classified section as well. Of course a way to distinguish who does what and how as goku said :mitsu: just an idea

GokuSSJ4
08-12-2010, 01:10 AM
you are right goku again my only point is that everyone should be given a chance to prove themselves... sadly i must admit this will involve some people having to go through some major issues but eventually the actual talent will make it through. *i also agree that there should be a good system to flag individuals and business who are known to do bad work as well both vendor or not. *As a communitry we should be looking out for one another and i couldn't agree more with mike the good threads always seem to go down in flames... i admit to being partially at fault in the last one but James at least now knows where im coming from on that or so i'd hope O0


We as MOD's have explain time after time why certain threads and informative information end up getting locked, deleted or moved into a different section.
Unfortunate not everyone deals with things in a mature way, therefore it forces the SocalEvo team to do things in order to put out the fires people create.
The last thing we want is people getting out of control over what the peanut gallery now n days can post and will do for attention, since some do not care for raw information. It's a sad thing to see, but being part of a MOD Team is never easy and we must make decisions that others will not like.

Massimo Power
08-12-2010, 01:44 AM
Voted yes but I think it's a good idea to have tiers where we can see who sells stickers and who actually works on cars...

ccwballer
08-12-2010, 02:15 AM
I agree that all vendors should have a BAR certification or at least some sort of insurance/means of recovering and dealing with unfortunate circumstances. It protects both the vendor and the customer.

jebus27
08-12-2010, 02:28 AM
Voted yes but I think it's a good idea to have tiers where we can see who sells stickers and who actually works on cars...


+10000

FUEL
08-12-2010, 02:37 AM
It's a good idea..... BUT will it work? Probably not. The majority of Evo owners are cheap fuckers and try to nickle and dime *instead of paying for proper tunes and services from a legitimate shop. If "dude" is working out of a garage with no lift, *company insurance, workers comp, no legitimate shop pet (cats, dogs, birds and reptiles count) *no dental plan for his employees it's probably safe to say he has no business working on your precious shit box of an Evo in the first place. *

On a side note MOD's....."The Buyers Corner"..... Can be an effective tool.... But it does no good when certain vendors are protected and theads deleted... True they get "de-railed" at times. But when legitimate complaints are made it doesn't do the community any good when "Vendor X" is free to blow up Evo's left and right. "Joe" the newbie unsuspecting Evo owner comes along..... And 3 months later his X is @ SCM for warranty work because Vendor X blew up his new car... NOW had you let that thread stay....maybe clean up the fan boi/girl stuff "Joe" might have made a better decision.... I know going a little offtopic here.....sorry Mr Reese.

One more suggestion..... Maybe the "Legit" Vendors/Shops can get some cutesy little badges next to their names..... To let buyers know they have the "appropriate" insurance, license, etc....

bad9yearold@Beam
08-12-2010, 09:35 AM
It's a good idea..... BUT will it work? Probably not. The majority of Evo owners are cheap fuckers and try to nickle and dime *instead of paying for proper tunes and services from a legitimate shop. If "dude" is working out of a garage with no lift, *company insurance, workers comp, no legitimate shop pet (cats, dogs, birds and reptiles count) *no dental plan for his employees it's probably safe to say he has no business working on your precious shit box of an Evo in the first place. *

On a side note MOD's....."The Buyers Corner"..... Can be an effective tool.... But it does no good when certain vendors are protected and theads deleted... True they get "de-railed" at times. But when legitimate complaints are made it doesn't do the community any good when "Vendor X" is free to blow up Evo's left and right. "Joe" the newbie unsuspecting Evo owner comes along..... And 3 months later his X is @ SCM for warranty work because Vendor X blew up his new car... NOW had you let that thread stay....maybe clean up the fan boi/girl stuff "Joe" might have made a better decision.... I know going a little offtopic here.....sorry Mr Reese.

One more suggestion..... Maybe the "Legit" Vendors/Shops can get some cutesy little badges next to their names..... To let buyers know they have the "appropriate" insurance, license, etc....

+1, cheap asses will always pay more in the end.

ecko
08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
I always say you get what you pay for. Then again I can't immediately fault an Evo owner for trusting a known friend who claims they know what they're doing. As mentioned all of the shops had to start somewhere. I've had bad service at known shops and have had my Evo worked on in many places as a result.

It's the cheapskates who want to pay $100 for a tune or make a post asking if it's ok to use used rotors that create a market for the half ass vendors. Same reason knockoff parts are so freaking popular.

evolution8mirage
08-12-2010, 10:25 AM
i honestly think that there should be a different vendor status if you have all the licenses and insurance. But i disagree with not letting others take a shot at becoming a vendor on here just for not having the licenses. Like everyone stated before, you have to start somewhere and then grow from there. you start learning on your car, to working on friends cars and then to charging people to work on their cars. Then you get the BAR license and work from your garage/backyard. And if you keep being good at what you do, you will keep having customers coming and then sooner or later you will open your own shop.

About warranty on the tunes, i highly doubt that will work. if an engine blows, they will find any excuse to blame it on something other than the tune.

Again, vendors/shops that have the BAR license and insurance should have a different color or logo on their profile.
Then, it will be up to the person to decide where they go.

ecko
08-12-2010, 10:35 AM
They shouldn't get a shot at being a vendor while they practice. It makes SCE look bad.

They should learn by working at other shops first and only open their own when they can do it properly. That includes having the necessary permits and insurance.

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 10:46 AM
They shouldn't get a shot at being a vendor while they practice. It makes SCE look bad.

They should learn by working at other shops first and only open their own when they can do it properly. That includes having the necessary permits and insurance.


Define practice... what do you think happenes when new turbos, parts, or when the evo X came out. What all shops and tuners magically know how to service or tune? Sorry no. Speaking about tunes in particular every tune is different and I'm sure every tuner no matter how long they've been tuning learns something new everyday. And isn't that the point?

Terenus
08-12-2010, 10:47 AM
This is a no brainer to me, it's a definite yes. As for the garage tuners, I've stayed away from them from the beginning because they lack a sense of security if I take my car there. I have been going to RRE since my first mod. Knowing that they have been an established tuner/shop since 1992 or longer assures me that they are legit. But don't get me wrong, there are decent garage tuners but they will never change my mind to have one of them look at my car. Not to mention I've been offered free tunes in the past.

I rather pay a little more in the beginning and get it done right instead of paying less and risking the car getting fucked up and pay to do it again. How many garage queens would fix your blown motor?*

The Vendor/Shop titles are definitely in the works, just a matter of time. As Rob explained earlier, this community has changed a lot since the beginning. We had no garage tuners, just a few shops who are actually still around alive and kicking. The forum is definitely outdated so hopefully soon we can implement the changes.

ecko
08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
They shouldn't get a shot at being a vendor while they practice.* It makes SCE look bad.

They should learn by working at other shops first and only open their own when they can do it properly.* That includes having the necessary permits and insurance.



Define practice... what do you think happenes when new turbos, parts, or when the evo X came out. What all* shops and tuners magically know how to service or tune? Sorry no. Speaking about tunes in particular every tune is different and I'm sure every tuner no matter how long they've been tuning learns something new everyday. And isn't that the point?


No.* New parts might come out but the basics of working on a turbocharged Mitsubishi don't change dramatically.* The competent shop will know how to deal with routine systems and how to troubleshoot common problems.

They also won't be forgetting things like the correct bolts, torque specs, piston rings etc.

Reese Tuning
08-12-2010, 10:59 AM
Ecko,

*I agree 100% with your thoughts and comments. This is the real question. What makes a road tuner or backyard tuner/wrencher a professional. If he can vend his work, tunes,etc then he must be a professional. Its like a MLB player, high schoolers do not go sit on the bench and watch games for the professional players. They are at college training etc. Thats were a shop owner/tuner is a professional. It is their only source of income. I do not do this for fun. I am actually sick of all the cock suckers on here. I do this to offer my knowledge to the community for a fair price. Its that simple. I am not your boyfriend or neighbor. Simply here to provide a service and keep your car in operating orders as it should.

*Give this a thought, myself and and mike from RRE see roughly 10 different EVOS a day. All of which we are hands on. Drive them, tune them, repair them, hear all the shady stories from the owners. We LIVE THIS LIFE. ITS A LIFESTYLE. Infact while I am typing this I am on flight 700 to philly for the BR shootout in Ohio. This is a lifestyle. Not a fun job where you laugh and play video games with bowls of ice cream and tits in your face. This is a hard life. Customers do not think about that.

* I work 70 hours a week for nothing sometimes. All to put a smile on someones face I do not know nor does he care about myself. In conclusion all I am saying/asking is that all shop owners deserve more respect than what is given on these lousy forums. The big name shops (and you know who they are) a shop that has a dyno,lift etc. The shops (owners) have dedicated and took a huge life risk inorder to offer their knowledge for a price. Just because someone read on evom how to tune an evo doesn't mean you know how.

*Like i said before, half of these kids tuning cars couldn't even get a AEM EMS car to start,let alone get it to idle. Give that some thought. All the kiddies that are tuning, tune nothing more than an OEM ECU. Not one of those "kiddies" even tune Speed density. Something that we have been offering for offer a year now. I am in no way talking shit. Just speaking the truth/facts about what goes on. ID2000's stock ecu? Never seen it here locally. The list goes on about how a shop/tuner is superior to bobby brown.

* James

choicelaw
08-12-2010, 11:06 AM
I thought that this was supposed to be a community forum, and NOT a vendor bias forum. We live in a free market (sort of ) society. If someone thinks they can tune, then they have the right to try and convince others and charge whatever they think they can get. Ultimately the consumer will decide how they spend their money and how they maintain their car. Everone's shit stinks, even those who have a business license. . . I find this thread to be a tad bit on the self-serving side. If a vendor is honest, does good work and charges a fair price, then they will have loyal customers whether or not they work out of a 4 bay licensed shop or out of my driveway.

So I vote no. . .

Reese Tuning
08-12-2010, 11:09 AM
Well then when Booby brown forgets to install your fram filter properly in the driveway what recourse do you have?

James

gutman
08-12-2010, 11:10 AM
Ecko,

*I agree 100% with your thoughts and comments. This is the real question. What makes a road tuner or backyard tuner/wrencher a professional. If he can vend his work, tunes,etc then he must be a professional. Its like a MLB player, high schoolers do not go sit on the bench and watch games for the professional players. They are at college training etc. Thats were a shop owner/tuner is a professional. It is their only source of income. I do not do this for fun. I am actually sick of all the cock suckers on here. I do this to offer my knowledge to the community for a fair price. Its that simple. I am not your boyfriend or neighbor. Simply here to provide a service and keep your car in operating orders as it should.

*Give this a thought, myself and and mike from RRE see roughly 10 different EVOS a day. All of which we are hands on. Drive them, tune them, repair them, hear all the shady stories from the owners. We LIVE THIS LIFE. ITS A LIFESTYLE. Infact while I am typing this I am on flight 700 to philly for the BR shootout in Ohio. This is a lifestyle. Not a fun job where you laugh and play video games with bowls of ice cream and tits in your face. This is a hard life. Customers do not think about that.

* I work 70 hours a week for nothing sometimes. All to put a smile on someones face I do not know nor does he care about myself. In conclusion all I am saying/asking is that all shop owners deserve more respect than what is given on these lousy forums. The big name shops (and you know who they are) a shop that has a dyno,lift etc. The shops (owners) have dedicated and took a huge life risk inorder to offer their knowledge for a price. Just because someone read on evom how to tune an evo doesn't mean you know how.

*Like i said before, half of these kids tuning cars couldn't even get a AEM EMS car to start,let alone get it to idle. Give that some thought. All the kiddies that are tuning, tune nothing more than an OEM ECU. Not one of those "kiddies" even tune Speed density. Something that we have beeb offering for offer a year now. I am in no way talking shit. Just speaking the truth/facts about what goes on. ID2000's stock ecu? Never seen it here locally. The list goes on about how a shop/tuner is superior to bobby brown.

* James


I don't think anyone is really arguing with you, you are right in just about every aspect of that post. What people are saying is that there should be different "vendor status levels" so that actual "big name shops", as you put it, can get the recognition they deserve. Going along with your analogy, there have been a handful of professional basketball players that have come straight out of high school. It takes a lot of talent and hard work to be able to do that successfully, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Just my .02

-David

Reese Tuning
08-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Keep in mind bobby brown just caused your car a new engine because he put the incorrect oil fiter on. AND forgot to tighten down the drain plug? Then what do you do? Egg his house?

*James

Reese Tuning
08-12-2010, 11:14 AM
It is ILLEGAL TO WORK ON CARS WITHOUT A BAR LICENSE. I CAN NOT MORE ANYMORE CUT AND DRY THAN THAT. Yes I am holding down shift when I typed that. Would someone like that I link some of that informative info over here?

James

choicelaw
08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Well then when Booby brown forgets to install your fram filter properly in the driveway what recourse do you have?

James


Same recourse as with any services transaction. *The honor system and then The legal system. *If I choose to have serious work done to my car in a back alley, then I need to be willing to deal with the consequences. *That is why we live in a free society.

choicelaw
08-12-2010, 11:20 AM
It is ILLEGAL TO WORK ON CARS WITHOUT A BAR LICENSE. I CAN NOT MORE ANYMORE CUT AND DRY THAN THAT. Yes I am holding down shift when I typed that. Would someone like that I link some of that informative info over here?

James


That's a non-valid argument, it is illegal to tamper with CARB related items on a car. Or how about modifying an engine to run on E-85 that's "illegal" too...

M477DIZZL
08-12-2010, 11:28 AM
* *Like i said before, half of these kids tuning cars couldn't even get a AEM EMS car to start,let alone get it to idle. Give that some thought. All the kiddies that are tuning, tune nothing more than an OEM ECU. Not one of those "kiddies" even tune Speed density.

This is true, I have PM'd said kiddies about tuning my EMS with no success. Why would I give said kiddies a chance to even tune my EMS? Well word of mouth plays an important aspect here. Many of us have attended several meets and usually all these topics are touched..tuning, mods and future plans within the time spent at these meets. Some kiddies come recommended since our peers can vouch for their abilities. We all have our preferences to whom we trust our cars with. No shop is perfect and there will always be a disgruntled customer that will badmouth a shop just cause said individual didnt get a $5 discount or hand shake for spending "so" amount of money.

Unfortunately even shops that fulfill all the requirements fail at times. I've been on here for a while now and read many stories from tools left behind to loose bolts....etc. As long as the shop gives some sort of warranty in writing they will have my business. It's usually the shops that have been around since the get go that offer such warranty.

Hopefully SCE adapts some sort of EBAY structure to let the end user decide wether to trust such vendor or not by their feedback.

gutman
08-12-2010, 11:30 AM
It is ILLEGAL TO WORK ON CARS WITHOUT A BAR LICENSE. I CAN NOT MORE ANYMORE CUT AND DRY THAN THAT. Yes I am holding down shift when I typed that. Would someone like that I link some of that informative info over here?

* James


So are you telling me that you never worked on any cars before you got your license? And if you did, can you honestly say that you were never paid in any way for that work? All these things you are condemning I'm pretty sure you have done yourself at one point, if not then you must be a freaking saint, or perfect, or something. One more thing, no disrespect or anything, but how old are you? You keep referring to these people as kids, but if my assumptions are correct, then I'm sure the guys at RRE and other similar shops that have been in this business forever would consider you a "kid" as well.

-David

RisingphoenIx
08-12-2010, 11:38 AM
They shouldn't get a shot at being a vendor while they practice.* It makes SCE look bad.

They should learn by working at other shops first and only open their own when they can do it properly.* That includes having the necessary permits and insurance.



Define practice... what do you think happenes when new turbos, parts, or when the evo X came out. What all* shops and tuners magically know how to service or tune? Sorry no. Speaking about tunes in particular every tune is different and I'm sure every tuner no matter how long they've been tuning learns something new everyday. And isn't that the point?


No.* New parts might come out but the basics of working on a turbocharged Mitsubishi don't change dramatically.* The competent shop will know how to deal with routine systems and how to troubleshoot common problems.

They also won't be forgetting things like the correct bolts, torque specs, piston rings etc.


Ecko no that's just something you'd like to believe. I'm not wanting to get into it but I know trust me... I've seen my share of shops on this forum who I won't name, because we all know how that will go down, mess up plenty of times. *And, I can tell you that when it comes to tuning I've fixed plenty of issues associated with some NOT ALL of the orange names with insurance and a lift and a dyno.* Ill also say it goes for some other joe blows who are out there to make a quick buck too... i see that all the time.*Most people will just believe what they are told and who are they to question a shop that is supposed to know "everything". *I have great respect for the other shops on here who I agree hands down do do work correctly and if/when they do mess up which EVERYONE does once in a while are big enough to admit the mistake. *I can also tell you that from a tuning point of view there are always new things coming out stock ecu OPEN SOURCE wise that will benefit you the "customer" but not everyone impliments them ;)

And to james I agree 100% not ALL road tuners as you put it can tune an AEM... yet. *You know my history somewhat now and my future is looking like. I will not however forget where it is that I came from or how I started. *Believe me when I say I've fixed plenty of BIG issues from "pro" shops. And as I told you on the phone its why I started doing what I do. *I won't name names and you and I talked about our different approaches so I will honestly say I do understand why it is you tune how you do and I will not argue otherwise. But there are others who even after so many year in the business I've seen time and time again cough out the real half assed worked. *I will also say the professional tuning world goes beyond what most people on this forum understand.

I do believe for the sake of every socalevo member there should be a way to distinguist who does what and HOW but to require AB&C seems wrong the ways its been talked about thus far in this thread. *I'm also sure the people will understand what they are risking when going to anyone without proper insurance... but how many people actually care to be honest? So far I've only seen those who have a long history in this world post but what about the others? Sad yes but its true. *We can never eliminate people from trying to save a buck but hell if we can point out hey this "nobody" is way better than that "no body" we've done what we can.

Edit I don't want to make it seem like just socalevo vendors only here but that's what this topic is about.* Let me also say this and please argue with me otherwise... but truly how many standalones do you big shops tune now?* With every new update that... OMG backyard do it yourself tuners like the programmer we know as TEPHRA and the rest of the true geniuses on evom come out with things like the AEM are no longer needed for 99% of the EVOs we tune.* Speed density is no longer some crazy voodooand neither is tuning. Don't get me wrong i wouldn't trust just anyone with a damn tactrix cable myself but again thats the whole point of this discussion anyways isn't it.* I've met plenty of people along the way who have also tuned themselves or are just starting out by reading that very same essay both on this forum and on evom.* It is by no means complete but understanding why and the spirit in which it was written is something completely different.* Certain shops will stand the test of time and some will disappear. Everyone and everything has its place so don't forget that either.* i remember when people thought we couldn't use anything bigger than 880s on stock ECU... what a joke that is now in the hands of people that know what they are doing... vendor/shop/joe blow and everything in between.* You personally james and mike at RRE have reached a point where no one "can bring you down" but you are human too and you started somewhere.* Everyone makes a choice and need to learn to live with consequences. don't let one fools mistake, which is the reason im sure this thread was created in the first place, ruin it for the rest of those possible future mike@RRE. Times change as do methods and if you as a professional shop can keep up with it you deserve your place but so do the others.

kambodianboi
08-12-2010, 11:51 AM
Lets say a random Joe Blow opens up a business and applies for the BAR license and get the garage insurance. That doesn't really prove how good he is, cause basically anyone can apply for these things.

In the end, I say it all runs on reputation, regardless if they are a shop or an average Joe.

cky_bam_marg
08-12-2010, 12:14 PM
in the buyers corners, socalevo should impliment a complaint forum tab in the "make a new thread" options.

it would be a laid out structured form, kinda like when you go to fill out a police report, with a date, persons/business involved, details of complaint etc.....

and the person that created the complaint can input the screen names of the vendors, people involved, and help ful witnesses, and only the listed screen names can post in this complaint style thread. so that it cant be filled up with fluff and peanut gallery bs. and so the partys involed may be able to get the facts out there cleanly and in a more oganized manner.

that would be a welcomed changed, and would maybe help some of the weeding out and accountablilty issues with the smaller fly by night/ friend oriented start up shops.

AlphaKennyBody
08-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Wow.... Well i'm a nobody in the tuning world... But since people are voicing their opinions...

We can't keep this world a only ABCDE tuner world. There are some of us out there that was LOVE to learn how to tune from someone who is experienced. Those of you that tune... If someone said... James, Mike, or whoever tunes thats in this thread.... I would love for you to teach me how to tune. What's your natural answer....?

" Uh it's not easy......"

" Uhh I dont got time...."

" Uhhh Sorry dude learn it on your own...."

" Uhhhh why so you can steal my customers? "

" Uhhhhh read on EvoM how to tune your own evo....."

Thats the type of answer's I've heard or seen from some I asked... I seriously would love to learn. But hearing answers like that will in turn lead to someone learning on their own which doesn't mean what they are learning or how they are learning is CORRECT. Correct me if i'm wrong... By all means I love learning which everyone does everyday.

I can't toss you dental link and tell you learn youself and go do a oral sugery based on what your read on your own. Get what i'm saying?

I'm sure half of the backyard tuners aren't targeting Big Shop for their money... But with most shop nightmare is... someone out there doing your "TYPE" of work for little to half your price. Again, Does that mean they are doing it wrong? We don't know.

And as far the the buyer's corner... Deleting, Locking threads is something that you think is a smart idea cause it's getting out of hand right? Well how about knowing and Witnessing FIGHTS and BRAWLS cause they couldn't talk it out online cause some of you mods Deleted/Lock the thread. Typing is a way to vent, calm situations down without proceeding to physical involvement. Like some say... You can sound E-Thuggish all you want but when you meet them or know them at the meet they are all smiles and not the time to want to fight people. That's how I see it. Hell the funny part is... Most of the mods on here talk shit and bash other mods and vendors when you talk to them... Maybe your posts should be deleted also? Oh wait your name is in Red so your ALWAYS right. I'm just saying.... Sorry I got keyboard happy. O0

evolution8mirage
08-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Wow.... Well i'm a nobody in the tuning world... But since people are voicing their opinions...

We can't keep this world a only ABCDE tuner world. There are some of us out there that was LOVE to learn how to tune from someone who is experienced. Those of you that tune... If someone said... James, Mike, or whoever tunes thats in this thread.... I would love for you to teach me how to tune. What's your natural answer....?

" Uh it's not easy......"

" Uhh I dont got time...."

" Uhhh Sorry dude learn it on your own...."

" Uhhhh why so you can steal my customers? "

" Uhhhhh read on EvoM how to tune your own evo....."

Thats the type of answer's I've heard or seen from some I asked... I seriously would love to learn. But hearing answers like that will in turn lead to someone learning on their own which doesn't mean what they are learning or how they are learning is CORRECT. Correct me if i'm wrong... By all means I love learning which everyone does everyday.

I can't toss you dental link and tell you learn youself and go do a oral sugery based on what your read on your own. Get what i'm saying?

I'm sure half of the backyard tuners aren't targeting Big Shop for their money... But with most shop nightmare is... someone out there doing your "TYPE" of work for little to half your price. Again, Does that mean they are doing it wrong? We don't know.

And as far the the buyer's corner... Deleting, Locking threads is something that you think is a smart idea cause it's getting out of hand right? Well how about knowing and Witnessing FIGHTS and BRAWLS cause they couldn't talk it out online cause some of you mods Deleted/Lock the thread. Typing is a way to vent, calm situations down without proceeding to physical involvement. Like some say... You can sound E-Thuggish all you want but when you meet them or know them at the meet they are all smiles and not the time to want to fight people. That's how I see it. Hell the funny part is... Most of the mods on here talk shit and bash other mods and vendors when you talk to them... Maybe your posts should be deleted also? Oh wait your name is in Red so your ALWAYS right. I'm just saying.... Sorry I got keyboard happy. O0


Well said

pensport
08-12-2010, 05:23 PM
Also not everyone who looks for cheap prices is a cheap ass, maybe they just cant afford do to their financial situations. I know people will say then don't own a evo or mod your car bla bla bla. Like it was said before Everyone started somewhere, not everyone started a business with a shop they had to learn their trade and expertise first, especially tuners. We all know they didn't just open a shop first and then start tuning cars. This is a good thread lots of opinions. I'm glad the Mods listen to opinions and change this site accordingly. I have been here since 04 and rarely post because its not my thing. But lets bump this post so legit shops can be specifically recognized and those who are vendors and also help pay for the site still keep some recognition. Members should be able to share their experiences and help others and newbies decide who they should turn to when in need of products,tuning,mechanic,etc.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-12-2010, 08:13 PM
I agree that all vendors should have a BAR certification or at least some sort of insurance/means of recovering and dealing with unfortunate circumstances.* It protects both the vendor and the customer.

From an insurance aspect, you can't just get "some sort of insurance." You SPECIFICALLY need a garagekeeper's policy, as a general liability excludes coverage for certain types of establishments... such as ones that work on vehicles.

I vote yes. While certification and insurance obviously don't mean that a vendor is going to do a perfect job (or that they won't, in the event that they lack the certification and insurance), it's still VERY crucial. We all say that it's not important until that one time when you need it, and all of a sudden the vendor is on the hook for the costs of a job gone wrong. You can either hope that they have the money sitting around to fix what they broke, or you can foot the bill yourself.

And to you vendors who don't want to get the certification or insurance -- even if you get your clients to sign some waiver, it could be used in court... but that doesn't mean you're off the hook right away. An unhappy client can still drag you to court, and even if you didn't do anything wrong (or you at least had some waivers signed), you'll still need to pay for a lawyer, which typically is included in your insurance coverage. But if you don't have certification and get sued, then that's an even bigger problem.

BOSSEVOIX
08-12-2010, 09:28 PM
there are many other places that someone can get a start in the evo world then by building bunk engines and advertising engine building services on socalevo.net out of your mothers garage. it is possible to go to school and learn about how to work on cars before you fuck them up and have posts made about what an idiot you are. im sure all the heavy hitters have made there mistakes in the past but i doubt they got there feet wet in the industry by screwing people over and stealing. good businesses survive off repeat customers, not one time hit and runs. yes i think every shop should have shop insurance because the legal system is flawed and even with a judgment people often times never get paid.

pensport
08-12-2010, 11:53 PM
everyone keeps talking about insurance which basically keeps the shop safe from being sued for specified causes of loss (fire, lightning, or explosion; theft; or mischief or vandalism) and collision or overturn. We need to be pushing that these business are legit (i don't care if you are dealing stickers!) get a license! My family is in the construction business and have a license which includes fees up the ass and all the BS! we actually report those who try to undercut and who operate illegal businesses cause it takes business from those who are legit. So spend the few hundred bucks and time it takes to be legit! I don't think these forums should encourage anyone to make fast money illegal. If the forum wants vendors I think they should only have legal vendors! wow i think i am getting too involved in this topic hahaha

big boss
08-13-2010, 12:10 AM
You know whats funny before I got into the Evo world I heard of Licensed shops BLOWING up motors on the dynos while tuning!!! and knock on wood I haven't heard anything about LOCAL TUNERS on these forums other than building motors! Even that how great is the License if the Tuner still makes you sign a consent form for not being liable if something goes wrong? Also We dont have to have the Fastest Evo out on the streets, What I'll beat you to the next green light ;) I say good Day :roll:

GokuSSJ4
08-13-2010, 12:45 AM
And as far the the buyer's corner... Deleting, Locking threads is something that you think is a smart idea cause it's getting out of hand right? Well how about knowing and Witnessing FIGHTS and BRAWLS cause they couldn't talk it out online cause some of you mods Deleted/Lock the thread. Typing is a way to vent, calm situations down without proceeding to physical involvement. Like some say... You can sound E-Thuggish all you want but when you meet them or know them at the meet they are all smiles and not the time to want to fight people. That's how I see it. Hell the funny part is... Most of the mods on here talk shit and bash other mods and vendors when you talk to them... Maybe your posts should be deleted also? Oh wait your name is in Red so your ALWAYS right. I'm just saying.... Sorry I got keyboard happy. O0


Well let's start with something a bit off topic, since this thread isn't about buyers corner; its about the status of a vendor and what credentials they have to present to the evo community. Also how do those people who have recently have join the community tell apart the REAL shops from your DIY guys who feel they should be charging money, correct??
the risk you can take by allowing someone to touch your precious and unique vehicle without all the credentials and shortcuts available now n days is endless. however this is up to the customer and the amount of research they decide to do before allowing an stranger to touch their vehicle.
Now, to go into buyers corner and claim because someone got into a fight cause they didn't have it their way (it isn't burger king)
and start a fight is just ignorant!!!* There are plenty of way to communicate aside posting things in the peanut gallery, hell you can even update your status in facebook if you like. Getting into an argument and blaming it on the internet is just silly; its like you saying that there's only email or PMing a vendor in order to communicate with them..
What people decided to do outside the peanut gallery is their responsability and you can find different ways to settle a score and not just the internet.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-13-2010, 07:28 AM
everyone keeps talking about insurance which basically keeps the shop safe from being sued for specified causes of loss (fire, lightning, or explosion; theft; or mischief or vandalism) and collision or overturn. We need to be pushing that these business are legit (i don't care if you are dealing stickers!) get a license! My family is in the construction business and have a license which includes fees up the ass and all the BS! we actually report those who try to undercut and who operate illegal businesses cause it takes business from those who are legit. So spend the few hundred bucks and time it takes to be legit! I don't think these forums should encourage anyone to make fast money illegal. If the forum wants vendors I think they should only have legal vendors! wow i think i am getting too involved in this topic hahaha

You're not getting the point. The insurance that we're talking about isn't for protecting the business if the place burns down, they're talking about the liability insurance.

krazydaveX
08-13-2010, 10:16 AM
Everyone speaks of all this legal stuff when the shops are building illegal street cars lol

DeeezNuuuts83
08-13-2010, 10:27 AM
^ It's not illegal if the vehicle is intended for off-road use. If the owner of the vehicle drives the car on public roads, that's on them.

krazydaveX
08-13-2010, 10:49 AM
Lol

ecko
08-13-2010, 11:10 AM
Everyone speaks of all this legal stuff when the shops are building illegal street cars lol


the point, you missed it

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 12:38 PM
You fail to miss the point that forcing people to choose vendors who have all the required equipment and paperwork and have to spend at minimum 400 plus on a tune will not leave a good taste in everyones mouth. *As I've said over and over we NEED those shops there is no denying that BUT people will always be in search of someone who has a reputation of doing quality for for the best price. *Like I've said price mostly reflects overhead costs and a lot of people don't realize that, insurance, advertising, employee pay, etc. *For the sake of members on socalevo even if it is decided that only "legit" shops are allowed to become vendors we need a feedback and rating system that provide real facts about everyone that offers some sort of service to weed out the people out there hat truly want to make a quick buck professional shop or not. Then perhaps we can keep people from being taken advantage of.

If the requirement are not set that high then it should be a fair marketing system where yes people are distinguished but that it is done tastefully and without bias.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
^ But that doesn't mean that you can't still do business with them if they don't have the insurance or certification, it just means that they can't officially be vendors.

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 02:15 PM
this is going nowhere. the vendors that are here that dont have certification, that HAVE blown motors or destroyed peoples cars should go. the ones that are here that are respectible should stay. like i said before i was tuned by a garage tuner from this site and my car had zero issues. no one tuned by him has had a single issue either. there are full on shops here that have had huge issues!

evolution8mirage
08-13-2010, 02:17 PM
this is going nowhere.* the vendors that are here that dont have certification,* that HAVE blown motors or destroyed peoples cars should go.* the ones that are here that are respectible should stay.* like i said before i was tuned by a garage tuner from this site and my car had zero issues.* no one tuned by him has had a single issue either.* there are full on shops here that have had huge issues!*


+1
agreed

i too am garage tuned.

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 02:19 PM
this is turning into a pissing match, its bullshit. for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. he does it because he enjoys it, not because it pays his bills.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-13-2010, 02:21 PM
this is going nowhere. the vendors that are here that dont have certification, that HAVE blown motors or destroyed peoples cars should go. the ones that are here that are respectible should stay. like i said before i was tuned by a garage tuner from this site and my car had zero issues. no one tuned by him has had a single issue either. there are full on shops here that have had huge issues!

But that's like telling someone that they'd only need to wear a helmet if they've hit their head before...

Muellerized...
08-13-2010, 02:26 PM
I think the established businesses that are operating legally within the state of california should pay a much lower price to be a vendor.

This way the people that choose to operate without proper permits and have the potential really liability issues will have to pay a much higher vendor fee in order to conduct their non business here. Also non certified "shops" need to be identified as such. The money they are saving by not being legitimate should easily cover the additional vendor fees.

I think the vendor fee should be at least tripled (at the very least) if you can't produce proper documentation at a minimum.

Muellerized...
08-13-2010, 02:29 PM
for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. he does it because he enjoys it, not because it pays his bills.

If that were true Naji would refuse to accept money for his hobby.

If a person accepts money for their service, they are a business...

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 02:34 PM
deleted this is bullshit btw! someone is full of shit here

evolution8mirage
08-13-2010, 03:17 PM
Dam BLM you beat me to it again,

Like you said, I'm sure there are many tuners out in the world that tune as a hobby and passion to learn new things.

I know for a fact that my tuner is one of them.

What's going on with socalevo? This is not how it was when I joined.

Edit: this is crazy, a lot of accusations are coming out. Not sure if they are the truth or not. But its getting crazy

S2myEVO
08-13-2010, 03:27 PM
Fucking love this shit, thank you socalevo for making my day O0

Coolguy949
08-13-2010, 03:28 PM
ok so here it is john i got permission to post this from an admin. *

you as a vendor pay out the ass so you can have all the suspension on this site to yourself. *you thretend to pull all your funding from socalevo if i was not banned and deleted for the pic i posted. *what kind of vendor would do that to the community because of a picture i posted? *huh are you really here for the community or here fo the money? *


Mike, that is actually not true at all. Not sure where you heard that. I hope not from one of the SCE staff. Please update your post or I will delete it. There is too much misinformation and conjecture floating around this site.

sales@muellerized
08-13-2010, 03:29 PM
ok so here it is john i got permission to post this from an admin.*

you as a vendor pay out the ass so you can have all the suspension on this site to yourself.* you thretend to pull all your funding from socalevo if i was not banned and deleted for the pic i posted.* what kind of vendor would do that to the community because of a picture i posted?* huh are you really here for the community or here fo the money?*


All of the above claims are 100% false.* John was invited by the SoCalEvo team to be a guest moderator of the Suspension, Wheels, Tires, Brakes... section and he did this voluntarily for quite a long time.* Not the other way around.* John never "thretend" to pull any funding as a threat to have you banned.* Us reputable vendors are here to support the community by providing quality products and services in exchange for our customer's hard earned money.

SoCalEvo members do the community a great disservice when they spread half-truths and outright lies.

-Orlando

EvoVIIIGSR
08-13-2010, 03:40 PM
obstacle1, prime8, EvoVIIIGSR, evolution8mirage, phoreal, illestjcollector23, BudLightMike, Massimo Power, kambodianboi, big boss, Jperez43evo8mr (+ 7 Hidden) and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

FUEL
08-13-2010, 03:41 PM
this is turning into a pissing match, its bullshit. for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. he does it because he enjoys it, not because it pays his bills.


Hobby? Or Business? I'm of the opinion it's a business.

Once upon a time when your "tuna" was the "king dick tuna" of the LB meets he once touted the # of cars he tuned and the "monentary" rate he tuned them at... I'm no math genius but in a 5-6 month period the "hobbiest" managed to bring in a "rough" estimate of about 10K.... DAMN my hobby of "Evo's" drains my pocketbook! I need a hobby like that!

I had a couple of questions for your "Tuna" about him running a legitimate business way back then....but in typical SCE fashion my post got deleted...and it was *becasue I asked him point blank if he claimed that money on his taxes. Or if he had used the money to fund his racing season that year in his Sentra. Or what his recourse was if he blew up someones motor? I'm sure he has no business license, BAR paperwork etc. yet he's a vendor on here. Should he be banned too? *I'd say he was running a business there and a pretty profitable one since he had hardly no over-head besides a data cable and some sort of logging device. *He works on cars too. Should we ban the "Tuna's" also? *I personally do not agree with all the numerous "freeway" Tuna's who do "pulls" on the open public highways...dyno's come in handy here to keep the public safe. *

So should we ban the "hobbiest" / garage tuna's? *

BTW lol I have seen, heard and talked to a few owners who's Evo's where tuned by the "hobbiest"...poor Evo's...then usually end up @ RRE or some other adequate place to fix the "hobby" tune in the long run...

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 03:47 PM
for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. *he does it because he enjoys it, *not because it pays his bills. *

If that were true Naji would refuse to accept money for his hobby.

If a person accepts money for their service, they are a business...


john this is apples and oranges... you are a suspension guru. granted i know you have a long history in motorsports and i also have utmost respect for you. *I also know you are no fool when it comes to tuners... however you cannot compare your professional field that you are a vendor for suspension services and compare that the the tuning market. *There is no OPEN SOURCE when it comes to the type of work you do and frankly i would not question your knowledge when it comes to the work you do. *At the same time however and im not saying you make mistakes often or any such accusation but who is out there to keep you in check so to speak? *When it comes to tuning there are plenty of wannabes who can go online. buy a cable, download some software and call themselves "tuners." *I can tell you that for my myself personally, and i can only speak on my own behalf, that i started because i was and always will be an enthusiast at heart. *Those were MY sole motivations. *I began working on MY own car and spent countless hours testing and researching how i could improve my own skills. *From there i moved on to helping close friends who understood the risk of having a novice work on their cars but I did so with good intentions and ALWAYS made sure that there cars were running better after they had left than before i had touched them. *Granted they gave me a couple of bucks afterwards but not because i was out there looking to make money. *From there i turned into fixing issues from people who had already been tuned by some very big names and i can tell you that 80% of the people who still come to me till this very day have been tuned by at least one other person. *I've reached a point where people somewhat know me and most respect me for what i do and have proven not because of what i charge or what paperwork i have. *

Call me a business or whatever you'd like but i should not have to pay triple what other people in the same field pay when I and a few others like me are out there fixing issues caused by some other both "legit" and not. *I would love to have a civil conversation with you as well as i did with reese. *No matter who we are i only care about my "clients" happiness and the safety and performance of their vehicles which is something i hope i share in common with everyone else who touches peoples cars. *Its not about money for everyone though we should all be fairly compensated and respected for our time IF it is deserved.

FUEL where are all the bad reviews then? i mean if its true im sure at least ONE of them would have posted something right? what you are saying is no better than what BLM said if you aren't providing any proof?* Looney Tune has proven himself over and over and he is human as well.* We all make mistakes don't we... im sure he can say the same thing about fixing "professional" tunes as well

edit: typos from typing my thoughts too quickly* :mitsu:

EvoVIIIGSR
08-13-2010, 03:54 PM
IMHO...In all honesty, staying on topic here, not all people who provide services on here can afford much of the overhead that is associated with opening their own shop. Lifts, lease, dyno, etc. all cost good money. Heck...call up rre, tuning tech, Reese, or any *of the successful shops on here and they will all tell you how much time, planning, blood, sweat, and tears go into building a successful business from the ground up. Just because a service provider can not afford to do so for (insert reason here), it doesn't make them a shady person. A mere "verified vendor" add-on to the screen name might suffice for the established shops, but I don't think the individuals who have earned a positive reputation by doing quality work should be penalized for not having the capital to start a shop of their own. My .02. give them your business at your own risk, after careful research. Any major decision made should be made after careful research...not just because a vendor has the shiniest sign hanging on their front door.

Terenus
08-13-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.

phoreal
08-13-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.
\


+111111

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 04:05 PM
this is turning into a pissing match, its bullshit. for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. he does it because he enjoys it, not because it pays his bills.



BTW lol I have seen, heard and talked to a few owners who's Evo's where tuned by the "hobbiest"...poor Evo's...then usually end up @ RRE or some other adequate place to fix the "hobby" tune in the long run...



if this is the truth then why would mike at rre say my tune was good when we used to talk about the tune on my evo? *naji has not had any issues that i am aware of and i will continue to support him as a tuner. *he was always there when i needed to ask questions or he had some new stuff to put on my car. *there are to many dick riders on this website. *

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 04:12 PM
this is turning into a pissing match, its bullshit. for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. he does it because he enjoys it, not because it pays his bills.



BTW lol I have seen, heard and talked to a few owners who's Evo's where tuned by the "hobbiest"...poor Evo's...then usually end up @ RRE or some other adequate place to fix the "hobby" tune in the long run...



if this is the truth then why would mike at rre say my tune was good when we used to talk about the tune on my evo? *naji has not had any issues that i am aware of and i will continue to support him as a tuner. *he was always there when i needed to ask questions or he had some new stuff to put on my car. *there are to many dick riders on this website. *your starting to sound like one angela and thats bullshit!


mike i usually like what you have to say but calm down... its the internet and this thread deserves a little more respect than the "other" one.

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.
\


+111111

tuned by who?

EvoVIIIGSR
08-13-2010, 04:13 PM
True, the extra cash you pay at a reputable shop may just be for that peace of mind. Quality may be just as good as reputable tuner "B" who does road tunes, but in the end you're paying extra for the ability to go back to the shop and say "you f*cked up my car, fix it".

phoreal
08-13-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.
\


+111111

tuned by who?


says it in my sig sweetie

GokuSSJ4
08-13-2010, 04:17 PM
What needs to happen to end all of the random bs is to
One make a distinguish logo for real shops and non shops who happen to be vendors.
Two a rating system, that can be review by socalevo team in order to be legitimate and not random screen names trying to act bendicted just because they dislike an individual in particular.
Three a better way to go about the buyers corner so it eliminates the way someone does a review and how crazy the peanut gallery get involved.
Base on that foundation we can start by fabricating a legitimate rate system per vendor.
Providing links, pictures and reviews from real" customers.

Coolguy949
08-13-2010, 04:20 PM
As I said, we're working on something. Just finalizing all the details. Hope to have something very soon.

Terenus
08-13-2010, 04:22 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.
\


+111111

tuned by who?


Who I was tuned by has nothing to do with this issue. This is a problem with consumer's choice of going to a legal shop or not. Don't be offended, because I am not attacking any "garage tuners" I am merely stating my preference.

phoreal
08-13-2010, 04:23 PM
What needs to happen to end all of the random bs is to
One make a distinguish logo for real shops and non shops who happen to be vendors.
Two a rating system, that can be review by socalevo team in order to be legitimate and not random screen names trying to act bendicted just because they dislike an individual in particular.
Three a better way to go about the buyers corner so it eliminates the way someone does a review and how crazy the peanut gallery get involved.
Base on that foundation we can start by fabricating a legitimate rate system per vendor.
Providing links, pictures and reviews from real" customers.


It would be like a ebay feedback kinda thing, evom has it its a good idea to see it take effect O0

GokuSSJ4
08-13-2010, 04:25 PM
As I said, we're working on something. Just finalizing all the details. Hope to have something very soon.
nuff said /thread. Loll. *
This will continue back and forth, it always does. Loll

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 04:27 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.


+1000 you are paying for the piece of mind... ill also say this about insurance... it works the same as any other type and usually shops will eat the cost to avoid a raising of rates. *There are also those with insurance that also make people sign wavers and "legal" issues aside... why is it practiced?



True, the extra cash you pay at a reputable shop may just be for that peace of mind. Quality may be just as good as reputable tuner "B" who does road tunes, but in the end you're paying extra for the ability to go back to the shop and say "you f*cked up my car, fix it".


and that's if the shop is willing to accept responsibility and admit a mistake... not always the case. *On the flip side there have been those that have gone beyond the call to make sure their customers are taken care of. *Some in one way or another have probably done both. *I'd love to believe every vendor does not screw people over but again only they can answer that and most of us will never know. *This is all a big mess truly and only time will tell what happens.

@ terenus Im sorry my quote was not directed at you. O0 lol :mitsu:

Mike W
08-13-2010, 04:28 PM
How about you charge the vendors on depending on how much moderating they need and how helpful they are by adding value to the site? You'd end up paying me to be a vendor, some would pay $100 a month and others you'd charge a $1,000 a week ;-)

Mike W

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 04:31 PM
How about you charge the vendors on depending on how much moderating they need and how helpful they are by adding value to the site? You'd end up paying me to be a vendor, some would pay $100 a month and others you'd charge a $1,000 a week ;-)

Mike W



So very true Mike... how much involvement a vendor or individual has in making this forum/community a better place speaks a lot about their character.* Sadly its something most people don't bother to consider. I agree whole heartedly haha :mitsu:

Coolguy949
08-13-2010, 04:32 PM
How about you charge the vendors on depending on how much moderating they need and how helpful they are by adding value to the site? You'd end up paying me to be a vendor, some would pay $100 a month and others you'd charge a $1,000 a week ;-)

Mike W



That's actually a great idea.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/7/31/633846446934957090-imrich-t2.jpg

Terenus
08-13-2010, 04:38 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.


+1000 you are paying for the piece of mind... ill also say this about insurance... it works the same as any other type and usually shops will eat the cost to avoid a raising of rates. There are also those with insurance that also make people sign wavers and "legal" issues aside... why is it practiced?

@ terenus Im sorry my quote was not directed at you. O0 lol :mitsu:


My shop never made me sign anything on any of my installs or tunes.

Here is a very gray area when it comes to tuning, every car has a chance to blow up. The question is was the car already fucked up to begin with when it's being tuned and as it is pushed to the limits it breaks down. Sometimes tearing down the engine can determine if it was a tune or build but in the end it makes the shop look bad no matter who's fault it is. I'm not for a waiver because I want to trust my tuner, but I'm not against it because it protects a shop from people who had bad builds.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-13-2010, 04:51 PM
ill also say this about insurance... it works the same as any other type and usually shops will eat the cost to avoid a raising of rates. *There are also those with insurance that also make people sign wavers and "legal" issues aside... why is it practiced?
Regarding some shops just paying for things out of pocket rather than going through insurance, sometimes it's because they may have a higher deductible to the point where it's not worth it to make a claim after paying the deductible and considering the rate hike. Regarding the waivers, sometimes they're done because their insurance company requires them to. But just because you're signing a waiver doesn't mean that you're giving them a get-out-of-jail-free card if something goes wrong.

evolution8mirage
08-13-2010, 04:56 PM
True what mike @ RRE said, he has helped me numerous times with my stupid noob questions from spark plug to bigger issues. Same goes for all the vendors I've dealt with, they have always been there to answer my questions.

Edit: this goes with big name shops to garage tuners

ecko
08-13-2010, 05:02 PM
How about you charge the vendors on depending on how much moderating they need and how helpful they are by adding value to the site? You'd end up paying me to be a vendor, some would pay $100 a month and others you'd charge a $1,000 a week ;-)

Mike W



So very true Mike... how much involvement a vendor or individual has in making this forum/community a better place speaks a lot about their character.* Sadly its something most people don't bother to consider. I agree whole heartedly haha :mitsu:


You keep talking like people know you. Who the fk are you?

Mike W
08-13-2010, 05:06 PM
You got it Mr Ecko!

Step two after ths vendor shiznit gets locked and forgotten... REAL NAMES for screen names! One battle at a time I guess.

Mike W(elch)

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 05:10 PM
mike your guys are now certafied to work on 2011 mustangs.* thanks for the brake fluid swap today.* now im ready for auto club tomorrow

FUEL
08-13-2010, 05:11 PM
for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. *he does it because he enjoys it, *not because it pays his bills. *

If that were true Naji would refuse to accept money for his hobby.

If a person accepts money for their service, they are a business...




FUEL where are all the bad reviews then? i mean if its true im sure at least ONE of them would have posted something right? what you are saying is no better than what BLM said if you aren't providing any proof? *Looney Tune has proven himself over and over and he is human as well. *We all make mistakes don't we... im sure he can say the same thing about fixing "professional" tunes as well

edit: typos from typing my thoughts too quickly *:mitsu:



What I was trying to make a point of was... the garage tooner being a hobby or a business? As for the reviews...not everyone comes running to complain on the internet. But it does not make the comment any less true.

Now should the garage tooners be treated as other vendors and shops? They work on cars...shouldn't they have all the proper insurance etc to protect the unsuspecting Evo community? What happens if they blow up someone's motor? Too bad? Shit out of luck?

I've had my share of incidents with shops. We all have. BUT when I have expressed my concerns they have "fixed" things or tried to remedy the issues I have had. And it gives me reassurance and peace of mind. This is the reason they have kept my business for the past 5 years and will continue to do so.

And If someone is starting out and they are a garage tooner...they should still be required to run a legitimate business IMO. Evo motors are not cheap if they ever blow one up.

RisingphoenIx
08-13-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm sure there are some good "garage tuners" but the main issue is not all are responsible for their actions. When something does happen, the consumer is most likely out of luck because they have no legal protection. SCE in the beginning never had to deal with this issue because it was mainly established shops/vendors with an actual office and warehouse. Now we have people selling, installing, and tuning out of their garage and it is really hard to distinguish them from real shops.

I personally support legit shops who have an establishment and pay all the extortion fees city requires them to pay. And that is why people think the "garage tuners" to be unfair, but if anything happens it's on the owner.

I don't know about "garage tuners" to pay 3 times the fee but SCE still wants to protect it's members from shady shops, legit or not.

You get what you pay for. I pay for peace of mind by going to a reputable shop.


+1000 you are paying for the piece of mind... ill also say this about insurance... it works the same as any other type and usually shops will eat the cost to avoid a raising of rates. *There are also those with insurance that also make people sign wavers and "legal" issues aside... why is it practiced?

@ terenus Im sorry my quote was not directed at you. O0 lol *:mitsu:


My shop never made me sign anything on any of my installs or tunes.

Here is a very gray area when it comes to tuning, every car has a chance to blow up. The question is was the car already fucked up to begin with when it's being tuned and as it is pushed to the limits it breaks down. Sometimes tearing down the engine can determine if it was a tune or build but in the end it makes the shop look bad no matter who's fault it is. I'm not for a waiver because I want to trust my tuner, but I'm not against it because it protects a shop from people who had bad builds.


you are 100% correct. and we also need to protect big shops and garage tuners from being lied about on their feedback until there is proof and legitimate evidence. *We all know how the peanut gallery can be manipulated by those in a "position of power" to push others out of the picture. *I've only ever asked that everyone be treaded FAIRLY and as equally as possible and is something i hope everyone, who had made a name for themselves, can understand and support. *Holier than thou approach to this is hypocritical. *I hope Reese started this thread with good intentions and is looking to protect everyone but putting everyone in a frenzy after that last vendor meltdown isn't right either. *Im willing to admit that there are probably more people out there looking to take your money and run as far as garage tuners/backyard mechanics go but the question is should we shut the door on those few who actually strive to become as good and/or well known as those that have "made it". *Im not saying im for allowing earn as you learn vendors either but not everyone is in the same situation in life to just go all out and open a shop and im sure not everyone tunes or works on cars wants to actually do that either. *If someone can keep a low overhead and provide a great service great at a competitive price great if you can't you and it is proven to be true time and again you will be weeded out.* Im also sure most will understand the risk they take going to someone without insurance or proper licenses.

Mike W
08-13-2010, 05:45 PM
I am liking "So Cal EVO Verified Shop" for the guys with everything. So Cal EVO et all isnt in a position to "certify" anyone. Brings a certain liability on them. But that the powers that be verified have that the various doccuments and licenses exist to be at a higher level than others works for me. Put a little happy check mark or thumbs up or smiley face...

I was at a loss for what the little guys would be called. Someone just mentioned "Service Provider"... I kind of like that. Little guys provide a service for sure. From a guy that tints tail lights to a guy with a sticker plotter to a part time tuner to a guy that helps with installs.* They are all provide a service to the community. "So Cal EVO Service Provider"

I wouldnt mind a business that sells stuff out of a real store front/place of business to be differentiated form a part time side business. If I ran the world I would make a "So Cal EVO Vendor" be someone with a business license for the city from which they operate, Full contact info would be on file with So Cal EVO incase they ever took the money and ran. This would work for locals and out of state businesses. I would call little guys with no doccumentation a "So Cal EVO Side Business"

I would make a easy to find page with full contace info on each paying customer of So Cal EVO.

Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W

Muellerized...
08-13-2010, 05:50 PM
for my tuner it is a hobby not a profession. *he does it because he enjoys it, *not because it pays his bills. *

If that were true Naji would refuse to accept money for his hobby.

If a person accepts money for their service, they are a business...


john this is apples and oranges... you are a suspension guru. granted i know you have a long history in motorsports and i also have utmost respect for you. *I also know you are no fool when it comes to tuners... however you cannot compare your professional field that you are a vendor for suspension services and compare that the the tuning market. *There is no OPEN SOURCE when it comes to the type of work you do and frankly i would not question your knowledge when it comes to the work you do. *At the same time however and im not saying you make mistakes often or any such accusation but who is out there to keep you in check so to speak? *When it comes to tuning there are plenty of wannabes who can go online. buy a cable, download some software and call themselves "tuners." *I can tell you that for my myself personally, and i can only speak on my own behalf, that i started because i was and always will be an enthusiast at heart. *Those were MY sole motivations. *I began working on MY own car and spent countless hours testing and researching how i could improve my own skills. *From there i moved on to helping close friends who understood the risk of having a novice work on their cars but I did so with good intentions and ALWAYS made sure that there cars were running better after they had left than before i had touched them. *Granted they gave me a couple of bucks afterwards but not because i was out there looking to make money. *From there i turned into fixing issues from people who had already been tuned by some very big names and i can tell you that 80% of the people who still come to me till this very day have been tuned by at least one other person. *I've reached a point where people somewhat know me and most respect me for what i do and have proven not because of what i charge or what paperwork i have. *

Call me a business or whatever you'd like but i should not have to pay triple what other people in the same field pay when I and a few others like me are out there fixing issues caused by some other both "legit" and not. *I would love to have a civil conversation with you as well as i did with reese. *No matter who we are i only care about my "clients" happiness and the safety and performance of their vehicles which is something i hope i share in common with everyone else who touches peoples cars. *Its not about money for everyone though we should all be fairly compensated and respected for our time IF it is deserved.

FUEL where are all the bad reviews then? i mean if its true im sure at least ONE of them would have posted something right? what you are saying is no better than what BLM said if you aren't providing any proof?* Looney Tune has proven himself over and over and he is human as well.* We all make mistakes don't we... im sure he can say the same thing about fixing "professional" tunes as well

edit: typos from typing my thoughts too quickly* :mitsu:

Who are you, I can't tell by the superhero screen name?

I always post my my company name so there is not any guesswork who is posting what...

AlphaKennyBody
08-13-2010, 06:11 PM
How I see it is... Everyone is crying over "what happens if something goes bad at a non legit shop.. your shit out of luck?"

YES! YOU ARE. End of story stop talking about it. We're ALL Grown ass adults other then the handful of mommy and daddy sponsored cars. I'm a grown as man to understand that If I took my shit to someone and shit happens I'm FUCKED. I personally should of saved and had it done at a legit shop so if anything goes wrong MORE than likely they will cover it.

Now I say this from personally experience.... My issues doesn't not belong in here.

But seriously read what some of you guys are posting..... Your posts to me are read like:
"If I went to some dude that said he knows how to pull my teeth out and done it before but he's not a legit dentist.... what happens if he pulls the wrong tooth out or messes up completely?"

Uhh I'm sure your fucked and it's your fault for not going to a Real DENTIST who knows what their doing and has insurance and other BS to assure that if things go bad you'll be okay. COMMON SENSE!

Now I'm sure seeing it like that makes sense right?

But again not everyone is BALLIN it up to go to places at times.... Sometimes people go to non legit shops cause they didn't have the money at the time but needed something done. Hell I'm not Mullerized but I sure do know how to put suspension in. Why Pay someone to do it if you can do it yourself. Same things goes to Oil Changes.

And for the Record, I'm sure if "Mr. Superhero" had a company name/vendor status he would post on it. He has Nothing to hide.

Andrew9RS
08-13-2010, 06:15 PM
^
I agree

prime8
08-13-2010, 06:18 PM
And for the Record, I'm sure if "Mr. Superhero" had a company name/vendor status he would post on it. He has Nothing to hide.
its me* :coolsmiley:

Andrew9RS
08-13-2010, 06:22 PM
Lol nah uhhhh


Its Me

Muellerized...
08-13-2010, 06:25 PM
And for the Record, I'm sure if "Mr. Superhero" had a company name/vendor status he would post on it. He has Nothing to hide.

Thanks, *but why is he hiding behind a screen name rather than making an account that is his REAL name?

I have no idea who rising phoenix is, that is why I asked him.

GokuSSJ4
08-13-2010, 06:31 PM
This is something that rob or dino will be implementing to inform those that haven't been around the block.
N on the companies that have had issues and continue to do so; tell me about it.
A lot of names have come and gone but I blame those who want to invest their money into their vehicle and do not bother to fo a bit of research. *






I am liking "So Cal EVO Verified Shop" for the guys with everything. So Cal EVO et all isnt in a position to "certify" anyone. Brings a certain liability on them. But that the powers that be verified have that the various doccuments and licenses exist to be at a higher level than others works for me. Put a little happy check mark or thumbs up or smiley face...

I was at a loss for what the little guys would be called. Someone just mentioned "Service Provider"... I kind of like that. Little guys provide a service for sure. From a guy that tints tail lights to a guy with a sticker plotter to a part time tuner to a guy that helps with installs.* They are all provide a service to the community. "So Cal EVO Service Provider"

I wouldnt mind a business that sells stuff out of a real store front/place of business to be differentiated form a part time side business. If I ran the world I would make a "So Cal EVO Vendor" be someone with a business license for the city from which they operate, Full contact info would be on file with So Cal EVO incase they ever took the money and ran. This would work for locals and out of state businesses. I would call little guys with no doccumentation a "So Cal EVO Side Business"

I would make a easy to find page with full contace info on each paying customer of So Cal EVO.

Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W

GokuSSJ4
08-13-2010, 06:38 PM
u figure that would be "common sense" right!???
Yet we just had a 19 page thread and many others that it seems people need to be guide it.
Aside the peanut gallery making their comments and all the +1 that everyone can mislead to believe is the best thing since ice cream was invented.


How I see it is... Everyone is crying over "what happens if something goes bad at a non legit shop.. your shit out of luck?"

YES! YOU ARE. End of story stop talking about it. We're ALL Grown ass adults other then the handful of mommy and daddy sponsored cars. I'm a grown as man to understand that If I took my shit to someone and shit happens I'm FUCKED. I personally should of saved and had it done at a legit shop so if anything goes wrong MORE than likely they will cover it.

Now I say this from personally experience.... My issues doesn't not belong in here.

But seriously read what some of you guys are posting..... Your posts to me are read like:
"If I went to some dude that said he knows how to pull my teeth out and done it before but he's not a legit dentist.... what happens if he pulls the wrong tooth out or messes up completely?"

Uhh I'm sure your fucked and it's your fault for not going to a Real DENTIST who knows what their doing and has insurance and other BS to assure that if things go bad you'll be okay. COMMON SENSE!

Now I'm sure seeing it like that makes sense right?

But again not everyone is BALLIN it up to go to places at times.... Sometimes people go to non legit shops cause they didn't have the money at the time but needed something done. Hell I'm not Mullerized but I sure do know how to put suspension in. Why Pay someone to do it if you can do it yourself. Same things goes to Oil Changes.

And for the Record, I'm sure if "Mr. Superhero" had a company name/vendor status he would post on it. He has Nothing to hide.

AlphaKennyBody
08-13-2010, 06:40 PM
Seriously though, Enough TRYING to update the thread with a new style...

Simply take their names.. FOR EXAMPLE:

Mullerized
APPROVED

Another one..

Reese Tuning
APPROVED

And for bad boys.... lol

IBLWMTRS
Awaiting Approval


Simple. Get rid of SoCalEvo.net Vendor under their names and fill it in like above

Mike W
08-13-2010, 06:46 PM
Something like this format:



Full Shop Business Name:

Road Race Engineering LLC

Years Under Current Ownership:

16

Physical Address:

13022 Ladana Ct
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670

Phone Number

(562) 777-1522

Website/E-Mail

www.roadraceengineering.com
[email protected]

So Cal EVO Screen Name/s:

Mike Welch (owner/tuning) “MikeW_RRE”
Sam C (sales/tech) “Shop_RRE”
Robert Ramirez (sales/tech) “TheTuna909_RRE”
Scot Gray (tuning) “Blak94GSX_RRE”


Social Media

None

Hours of Operation At Place of Business

M-F 10 am – 8pm
Saturday – Appointment Only

BAR Registration Number:

ARD00 190419

State Of California Seller’s Permit #
Submitted, On File, confirmed.

Business License:

City Of Santa Fe Springs, Submitted, copy on file.

Dept Of Toxic Substances Control EPA ID Number:

Submitted, On file

Garage Keeper’s Insurance Carrier:

Submitted, On file


Photo/s Of Exterior:

http://roadraceengineering.com/rreimages/exterior-01.JPG


http://roadraceengineering.com/rreimages/exterior-overhead.jpg



Photo/s Of Interior:

http://roadraceengineering.com/dynapack/dyno-med.jpg


http://www.roadraceengineering.com/ralliart/silly-stuff/riding-640.jpg


Information Current As Of:

8/2010

ciclops99
08-13-2010, 06:49 PM
hmmm, showing off the unicycle trick O0

BudLightMike
08-13-2010, 06:50 PM
hahahahah mike your a riot!

leaveit2bevo
08-13-2010, 07:10 PM
this pretty much sums up socalevo*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4

Muellerized...
08-13-2010, 07:15 PM
Full Shop Business Name:

Muellerized, Inc.

Years Under Current Ownership:

9

Physical Address:

3007 enterprise st.
costa mesa, ca

Phone Number

714 850 1670

Website

www.muellerized.com

So Cal EVO Screen Name/s:

Muellerized...
[email protected]

Social Media

Facebook, John Mueller

Hours of Operation At Place of Business

M-F 10 am – 6pm
Saturday – Appointment Only

BAR Registration Number:

262481

State Of California Seller’s Permit #
Submitted, On File, confirmed.

Business License:

city of costa mesa, submitted, copy on file.

Dept Of Toxic Substances Control EPA ID Number:

Submitted, On file

Garage Keeper’s Insurance Carrier:

Submitted, On file


Photo/s Of Exterior:

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/fa3xlNUGwgZqYaLrZx2qGawSsYqAQaNy_MtV3Uv2LkS3lOtjV7 LEkQe05X3XAJ_2hjRa7i2PbpjKAtN3NtoMHBtqIF1pwRuy1jMc i7D1Lw

Photo/s Of Interior:

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10258/normal_P1010205.JPG


http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10258/normal_muellerized_silver_evo_day.jpg


Information Current As Of:

8/2010

evolved13
08-13-2010, 08:29 PM
Things are starting to shape up on this thread....thanks all who are airing their viewpoints. And to finally see the dreaded "driveway of death".

anthonyvonsocalevo
08-13-2010, 08:51 PM
Wow. Isn't it ultimately up to the Customer to do their research?

ciclops99
08-13-2010, 10:55 PM
So mr risingPhoenix, who are you???

ralliartevoeu
08-14-2010, 12:31 AM
Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W



LOL Mike.* James Reese was part of RNR, I have picture proof of back when RNR was still around the DSM days.*

On a serious note, look at vendor with license Like HB SPeed, they blew up more evos than any other shops,*and the customers end up bringing it back to South Coast Mits for warranty.* I found it funny that Reese even post up this thread, First of all Reese Tuning don't built engines.* He buys stuffs from Buschur and put it together like legos.* That's not Built so don't get it twist.* Just because a vendor have a shop and license that don't mean shit.* A honest person will do honest work/business, It doesn't matter if it's a real shop or not, license or no license.

MRevil9
08-14-2010, 02:00 AM
Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W



LOL Mike.* James Reese was part of RNR, I have picture proof of back when RNR was still around the DSM days.*

On a serious note, look at vendor with license Like HB SPeed, they blew up more evos than any other shops,*and the customers end up bringing it back to South Coast Mits for warranty.* I found it funny that Reese even post up this thread, First of all Reese Tuning don't built engines.* He buys stuffs from Buschur and put it together like legos.* That's not Built so don't get it twist.* Just because a vendor have a shop and license that don't mean shit.* A honest person will do honest work/business, It doesn't matter if it's a real shop or not, license or no license.


+1

evobros
08-14-2010, 03:26 AM
^^^+1

Andrew9RS
08-14-2010, 03:32 AM
^
-1

EvoVIIIGSR
08-14-2010, 09:23 AM
Lmao @ Andrew. Morning bump!

BOSSEVOIX
08-14-2010, 09:28 AM
Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W



LOL Mike.* James Reese was part of RNR, I have picture proof of back when RNR was still around the DSM days.*

On a serious note, look at vendor with license Like HB SPeed, they blew up more evos than any other shops,*and the customers end up bringing it back to South Coast Mits for warranty.* I found it funny that Reese even post up this thread, First of all Reese Tuning don't built engines.* He buys stuffs from Buschur and put it together like legos.* That's not Built so don't get it twist.* Just because a vendor have a shop and license that don't mean shit.* A honest person will do honest work/business, It doesn't matter if it's a real shop or not, license or no license.


how many people are out there that fit this description?

EvoVIIIGSR
08-14-2010, 09:35 AM
Unfortunately, not many...but they're still out there.

krazydaveX
08-14-2010, 09:38 AM
Lol puts together like legos ...that's funny

BOSSEVOIX
08-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Unfortunately, not many...but they're still out there.


the answer is zero. theres no one out there that fits that description.

EvoVIIIGSR
08-14-2010, 12:12 PM
No one fits the description of an honest person who does honest work? I would politely disagree.

HB Speed
08-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Who remembers Project Gen? RNR? They got protected for a long time and left a lot of people hanging. Prolly others I forgot about.

Mike W



LOL Mike.* James Reese was part of RNR, I have picture proof of back when RNR was still around the DSM days.*

On a serious note, look at vendor with license Like HB SPeed, they blew up more evos than any other shops,*and the customers end up bringing it back to South Coast Mits for warranty.* I found it funny that Reese even post up this thread, First of all Reese Tuning don't built engines.* He buys stuffs from Buschur and put it together like legos.* That's not Built so don't get it twist.* Just because a vendor have a shop and license that don't mean shit.* A honest person will do honest work/business, It doesn't matter if it's a real shop or not, license or no license.

Blew up more Evos then anyone else? You have no clue what you are talking about... If you knew anything about Evo X's and there fuel pump relays amongst other issues, you would know the outcome of what happened to our very few out of 100's of customers problems.

One guy who did post on here talking crap about how "we blew his motor and it was our fault"
is back on one of our maps as a matter a fact, its the same exact map that we had tuned his car with that he first proclaimed did his motor in and guess what?? It has been running fine since...
(with new upgraded relay)
You fail because you are one of those types that believed shit talkers like Javi who think they know everything because they read on the internet and did a downpipe install before :2funny:
We tune 2-3 cars 6 days a week! We know what we are doing thank you
If SCM warrantied some car "you" say we blew, do you really think they would have covered it if it was the tune?* :bang:

EvoVIIIGSR
08-14-2010, 01:42 PM
Just goes to show you don't mess with HB Speed. They have Jesus on their side.

krazydaveX
08-14-2010, 01:50 PM
Halleluyah!!!!!!

AlphaKennyBody
08-14-2010, 05:37 PM
Nice..... and Civil.... I Like that Jon Kudos to you.... Not Offense but hope you doing go back in here after he tries to say something back in return to your post....

Reese Tuning
08-16-2010, 01:47 PM
Lego's or whatever you wish to call it is superior to your rig I am sure. So your comment is not needed thanks. The poll answers all the questions I had. In other words, 85% of the people really care about their car. The other 15% are shady and could careless about the outcome of their car. Keeping in mind Joe blow will not replace/rebuild your engine when he forgets to tighten the drain plug, install the correct fuel injector o-ring.

To everyone that has voted yes, I appreciate it. There are some very smart people on here. This thread has proved that. I am thankful it did not turn into some sort of bash-fest, shit talking thread. It was nice to view/see everyone's opinion and reasoning.

To everyone that voted no, I appreciate it. You have proved how much you care about your rig. You would allow someone to service/tune/build your car with zero recourse if they were to fuck it up.

In conclusion: Thank you for everyone's feedback. Now let's sit back and see how long it takes this forum to do what they say. We have been hearing this for months now. Does everyone remember the FTY gig? It didn't last long did it? How many tuners/customers had tunes from them that were fucked up terribly? I sure did. There were a lot. It was sad to see grown men taken advantage of by someone is search of a couple bucks over night. It was really sad.

Once again, thank you for the cordial and mature thread.

James

BudLightMike
08-16-2010, 04:14 PM
I love you James

NativeSS
08-16-2010, 04:19 PM
^^^ get some volks for your 5.0...

good thread james. lets hope SCE comes through.

blkEVO8
08-17-2010, 09:03 AM
voted YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RisingphoenIx
08-17-2010, 12:05 PM
Lego's or whatever you wish to call it is superior to your rig I am sure. So your comment is not needed thanks. The poll answers all the questions I had. In other words, 85% of the people really care about their car. The other 15% are shady and could careless about the outcome of their car. Keeping in mind Joe blow will not replace/rebuild your engine when he forgets to tighten the drain plug, install the correct fuel injector o-ring.

To everyone that has voted yes, I appreciate it. There are some very smart people on here. This thread has proved that. I am thankful it did not turn into some sort of bash-fest, shit talking thread. It was nice to view/see everyone's opinion and reasoning.

To everyone that voted no, I appreciate it. You have proved how much you care about your rig. You would allow someone to service/tune/build your car with zero recourse if they were to fuck it up.

In conclusion: Thank you for everyone's feedback. Now let's sit back and see how long it takes this forum to do what they say. We have been hearing this for months now. Does everyone remember the FTY gig? It didn't last long did it? How many tuners/customers had tunes from them that were fucked up terribly? I sure did. There were a lot. It was sad to see grown men taken advantage of by someone is search of a couple bucks over night. It was really sad.

Once again, thank you for the cordial and mature thread.

James


this has been a mature thread. as you said James we will just have to see what happens.

One thing I'd like to point out is this thread has been (Read 2381 times) with Total Votes: 118. Says a little something about how many people actually cared about this thread to begin with and vote.

DeeezNuuuts83
08-17-2010, 12:11 PM
^ Well some people could have posted and stated their opinion in something more elaborate of a response than "yes" or "no," plus perhaps the read count goes up if the same guy visits the thread multiple times

RisingphoenIx
08-17-2010, 12:14 PM
^ Well some people could have posted and stated their opinion in something more elaborate of a response than "yes" or "no," plus perhaps the read count goes up if the same guy visits the thread multiple times


of course... yes that is true. i can tell you i've read this thread maybe 30-40* times myself granted i actually cared what everyone had to say.* For a while there were a good amount of people reading this thread and only a few actually took the time to vote let alone post up their thoughts.

1WkdEvo
08-17-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't think you should be allowed to become an SCE "Vendor" until you know how to spell License :)

J/K James,

Interesting discussion

1WkdEvo
08-17-2010, 12:45 PM
The assertions that you clearly do not care about your car and that you are shady if you voted no serve no purpose and are not valid.* This series of arguments fail to account for several other variables that could and do impact people's decisions regarding their vehicle(s)

I like the dialogue and the ideas, but taking it there invalidates the thread to some degree, which is unfortunate

jamal
08-17-2010, 02:38 PM
Glad I got that pic of mike on a unicycle out of this thread.

What really cracks me up are the guys who rent a unit somewhere and open up a "shop," and then don't bother going and getting a business license or register with the BAR etc. I know of a someone who just recently got shut down for this.

Mike W
08-17-2010, 02:57 PM
^ Well some people could have posted and stated their opinion in something more elaborate of a response than "yes" or "no," plus perhaps the read count goes up if the same guy visits the thread multiple times


of course... yes that is true. i can tell you i've read this thread maybe 30-40 times myself granted i actually cared what everyone had to say. For a while there were a good amount of people reading this thread and only a few actually took the time to vote let alone post up their thoughts.


I think it is more like 100 people read the thread 100 times each looking for drama. Then 80 people voted once and another bunch voted multiple times with all their extra screen names ;-)

Mike W

Sam Smash
08-17-2010, 03:37 PM
Coronas > Bud Light.

kambodianboi
08-17-2010, 03:43 PM
Coronas > Bud Light.

Heineken > Coronas > Bud Light

DeeezNuuuts83
08-17-2010, 03:58 PM
Coronas > Bud Light.

Heineken > Coronas > Bud Light

Vagina > all of the above

AlphaKennyBody
08-17-2010, 04:12 PM
^
+ 9031238974987293

BudLightMike
08-18-2010, 11:09 PM
Thoseth that speaketh downeth on bud light shalleth sucketh my cocketh

IrvineXGSR
08-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Shocktop FTW! ^ BLM where do we meet up?

GokuSSJ4
08-18-2010, 11:46 PM
^ Well some people could have posted and stated their opinion in something more elaborate of a response than "yes" or "no," plus perhaps the read count goes up if the same guy visits the thread multiple times


of course... yes that is true. i can tell you i've read this thread maybe 30-40 *times myself granted i actually cared what everyone had to say. *For a while there were a good amount of people reading this thread and only a few actually took the time to vote let alone post up their thoughts.


I think it is more like 100 people read the thread 100 times each looking for drama. Then 80 people voted once and another bunch voted multiple times with all their extra screen names ;-)

Mike W

probably correct, LOL ...

leaveit2bevo
08-19-2010, 08:28 AM
I don't think you should be allowed to become an SCE "Vendor" until you know how to spell License :)

J/K James,

Interesting discussion


vendor/vender are both correct

evolution8mirage
08-19-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't think you should be allowed to become an SCE "Vendor" until you know how to spell License :)

J/K James,

Interesting discussion


vendor/vender are both correct


? :?

philee
09-08-2010, 01:14 AM
Yes.

Drifting Away
09-22-2010, 03:10 PM
Yes, But as a consumer it boils down to you and your judgment. Its your job to be informed of the skill level and actual knowledge of the person working on or tuning your car. Common sense would tell you that going to a guys house or meeting him at the local burger joint for a tune or whatever your having done means they are an enthusiast more so than a legitimate shop owner/vendor. Yes I know I had a roll to play in my early stages of this community but that was due to my own miss guiding and not reading between the lines of reality; once I became more educated in my free time on the subjects of EFI, the stock ecu of the evo, the 4g63 its history etc. true skills became a tad bit more apparent to me. Not calling myself an expert just more informed consumer/friend but I now know where to make the judgment call and draw a line in the ground calling bullshit to some while these guys are legit professionals that have been trained, licensed and just downright know what they’re doing because it has gone from enthusiast to 9-5 ( or whatever shop hours they have) I have to feed my kids and pay my employees and keep the people happy with fair pricing.

No I’m not saying that road tuners are inferior or lacking in knowledge in anyway, but I will say that there is a degree of safety and concern that needs to be placed in the consumers mind of what’s actually going to be done to your cars brain, motor, and yes even suspension (yea someone actual offered on the side one time).* Are you willing to put your car in the hands of a fellow enthusiast simply because of a vendor tag on a forum based community? That’s your decision and yours alone, some have a greater reputation than others for damn good reasons and should be respected to a degree for their contributions to SCE.

To the LEGOS comment about James, ehhh realy LEGOS? That was childish in nearly every context. History lesson, a little something happened in the early history of civilization it was call the industrial revolution and one of the most amazing things happened during that particular part of history was interchangeable parts ( yea go figure ). The 4G6 engine series as a whole has been around longer than ive been alive (1986) you would think that some advancements in parts production/reproduction and testing has been done between then and 2010 that would make a mechanic/engine builders life a smidgen (smid-gen ,n. A very small quantity or portion; a bit or mite) easier ? Hard to believe that yea most things in a car are assembled like legos or that more advanced engine work (honing, coating, measuring, etc) is actually documented and can be researched, and learned; no magic art to the craft other than the finite details (torque specs, compression ratios, etc) that you would hope the person working on your car knows or at least has the experience or wisdom to research.* James does a great job and is worthy to be called a shop owner/tuner and can build my LEGO any time.

Mike Welch and the entire RRE team are for lack of grammar “the shit” when it comes to EVO/DSM experience, knowledge, and quality work with that smidgen of wisdom. Don’t believe me?* Call Mitsubishi Corporate and ask them to boycott RRE from ever tuning, owning, racing, or working on a Mitsubishi engine, and tell me how long you last on the phone before you’re shamed under a rock. Or ,hey ask the various teams and drivers they help put on podiums to discontinue their services, more than likely that won’t happen. You would have a better chance of winning the WSOP with a Royal Flush (649,739 : 1 odds).

Muellerized….Well I’m not going to beat this dead horse but I’ve come this far ( and you’ve read this far). If you know anyone on SCE that has as many happy customers, dominating technical expertise, and the years of race experience outside of the realm of Evo’s than please PM. John and his staff are basically the Ayrton Sennas of suspension modifications on SCE ( or in So Cal IMO), nothing can justify the way a car feels and handles after it comes from their hands…

And the bottom line, all the vendor/shop owners that are a legitimate business, sacrifice a lot to give us quality and I mean no shit quality services at the prices of their families, bank accounts, time and sleep to bring us , the consumers a large grin of joy when we step on the accelerator and see that good old boost gauge* go over* 1 BAR on I-5 . When was the last time anyone thanked James, Mike, John , or our enthusiast tuners* for taking the time away from their families so your car can be better than it was the previous day because the just downright have a love for the community and live what they do?

So thank you to everyone who does what they do wither it be for profit , fun, experience or even for the hell of it. As long as you continue to provide the consumer with the honest knowledge of your experience and can vouch for your word and uphold to your own standards then it’s up to the consumers ( SCE members ) to choose you and your services provided; and the responsibilities are placed on their decisions of choice.

-Stephen

Skiracer
09-22-2010, 03:20 PM
I guess the next step is to require all "tuning" shops to only allow SAE Certified mechanics to work on the car :2funny:

Drifting Away
09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
it be a start to some much needed quality control....

AS EVOIX
09-22-2010, 03:43 PM
I guess the next step is to require all "tuning" shops to only allow SAE Certified mechanics to work on the car :2funny:




u mean ASE

BOSSEVOIX
09-28-2010, 10:26 AM
bump

Reese Tuning
10-03-2010, 01:41 AM
Keeping track of the dates.

James

Coolguy949
10-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Keeping track of the dates?

Andrew9RS
10-04-2010, 02:10 PM
?

BudLightMike
10-04-2010, 06:45 PM
??

Andrew9RS
10-04-2010, 08:53 PM
( . Y . )

BudLightMike
10-06-2010, 11:06 AM
???????????????????????????????